CNN aired Kenyan saying of some Americans about Obama, "[T]hey don't want someone who is closer to Islamic"; failed to note Obama is Christian
SUMMARY: In CNN State Department correspondent Zain Verjee's report about Kenyans' reaction to the New Hampshire Democratic primary and its impact on the presidential candidacy of Sen. Barack Obama, CNN aired a video clip in which an unidentified man "on the streets of" Kenya said: "[T]here are some people who say they don't want him [Obama] because ... they don't want someone who is closer to Islamic." But Verjee never noted that Obama is a Christian, not a Muslim.
During the 2 p.m. ET hour of the January 9 edition of CNN Newsroom, anchor Kyra Phillips aired a video clip of State Department correspondent Zain Verjee's report from Kenya purporting to show "what one man had to say on the streets" of Kenya about Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (IL), in which the man said: "There are some people who say they don't want him because he's a ... not even a black. They are saying they don't want someone who is closer to Islamic." When Phillips asked Verjee "what he meant," she responded that "a lot of them were saying that because he was African-American most Americans would not actually end up voting for him as president," but Verjee did not note that Obama is not Muslim.
The Obama campaign website notes that Obama "has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."
A longer version of the same report in which the unidentified man said, "They are saying they don't want someone who is closer to Islamic," also aired on the January 9 edition of CNN's The Situation Room, without comment by Verjee or host Wolf Blitzer on the "Islamic" reference.
From the 2 p.m. ET hour of the January 9 edition of CNN Newsroom:
PHILLIPS: Well, I know you've had a chance to talk to a lot of people in Kenya and they're already reacting to the New Hampshire primary and Barack Obama because his relation to Kenya. Here's what one man had to say on the streets that you caught up with.
[begin video clip]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #4: There are some people who say they don't want him because he's a --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #2: A black man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #4: -- not even a black. They are saying they don't want someone who is closer to Islamic.
[end video clip]
PHILLIPS: Tell me what he meant by that. And what -- what did others say to you within that group?
VERJEE: Well, a lot of them were saying that because he was African-American most Americans would not actually end up voting for him as president. Some of the other things that they said, too, was that they got up in the wee hours of the morning, which is really around 4 or 5 a.m., to watch the results of the New Hampshire primary.
They said by and large they were disappointed that it was really a step back for Obama in this instance, but they didn't count him completely out of the race. They also said in that particular group that maybe the election there -- that the polls were rigged.
You know, Kenya itself is facing a big debate and a lot of tension, because Kenyans themselves believe that the latest election was rigged. So that was what everyone had on their minds, Kyra. We had a good laugh, and they're watching the race really closely and they're all looking forward to Super Tuesday.
From the January 9 edition of CNN's The Situation Room:
VERJEE: Barack Obama is Kenya's favorite son. Probably more than any other country in the world, Kenyans are tuning in to see if he is going to win the race for the White House. They woke up in the wee hours of the morning and they were following the New Hampshire primary really closely.
[begin video clip]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #1: I woke up at 4 a.m. to watch the primaries in Hampshire. He was a few thousand, 2,000 points, below Clinton and I felt sorry. I kept on hoping that he would catch up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE#2: It's only one setback but he will still going to win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #3: It was rigged. It was rigged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #2: Rigged. They tried to rig it back.
VERJEE: But it's not Kenya. There's no rigging going on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #2: There is -- the United States, there's rigging. There's rigging even in U.S. Even in England, there's rigging.
VERJEE: So you think he lost because there was rigging?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #2: There was a lot of rigging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #4: Actually there are some people who say they don't want him because he's a --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #2: A black man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #4: -- not even a black. They are saying they don't want someone who is closer to Islamic.
VERJEE: If you had one message today for Barack Obama, what would it be?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #2: Wish him best of luck to win in USA so that he can have power also in Africa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #4: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #5: Publicly, I think it will be like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE #4: Because he's a Kenyan, we'll be getting visas easier to go to U.S.
[end video clip]
VERJEE: Wolf, in Kenya, Obama continues to be a rock star. Wolf?
BLITZER: Zain Verjee, another rock star in Kenya right now. Thanks very much. Zain is from Kenya originally.
Yeah, they talked about how they could travel to the US easier, if a Kenyan is elected. They read so much about Obama they obviously think he is Kenyan .... he is American. BTW, did he EVER live in Kenya?
"Oh, also, where did I say that the "smear" got started in "anywhere USA"? You're gonna have to help me, because I can't see it."
You're gonna have to look really, really hard because I didn't say you did!
I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying that isn't a good thing? If so, how do you explain your next statement where you say your cousin "let('s) her lead the way"? To me, it sounds like she's submitting to the wisdom of your cousin. If that's not what you are saying (that it isn't a good thing) then ... never mind.
No, she isn't "required" to submit. Advised to, yes, but not required. And, yes, pastor so and so would probably state what God teaches. That would be a pastors job.
"i don't want someone in office who supports such nonsense."
That's fine, don't vote for someone who does.
" huckabee also says that the ten commandments are the basis for our laws and he can't see anything in there that anyone should object to."
I agree with that, too. Of course not ALL 10, but the basic premise is there....don't murder, cheat, steal.
" but is there any reason that you cannot buy a beer at the store on sunday morning in many parts of the country? other than keeping the sabbath holy?"
One reason would be the liquor store is closed Sunday morning. What would be the reason you can't buy a beer at 4am (any day) in many parts of the country? Where does it say that the sabbath is ONLY Sunday? From what I read it is the day I don't work. For instance, if I had a Wednesday thru Sunday job, my sabbath would be either Monday or Tuesday. I think Sunday has become the 'general accepted' day of sabbath, but I don't think it specifically says in the Bible it is Sunday.
No, they are totally different. She can do what she wants.
" and let's see, don't cheat, steal, murder. gosh, good thing we live in a christian country huh?"
Yes. It IS a good thing. Imagine if stealing, murdering and cheating were allowed. Well, I guess the prison system wouldn't be so overcrowded ;)
"and who said one had to be buying at a liquor store. you are aware stores like 7-11 can be open 24 hours a day, seven days a week? so why can't beer be sold on sunday morning?"
And, why can't beer be bought at 4am in those 7-11's during the week? (you are still talking about "many" places, right?)
I don't know what religion she adheres to. How can I answer that? The Christian religion I belong to teaches the man's judgement is preferred, not superior. And, certainly not 'required'.
" and you only included half my quote. i made it clear that those things are unacceptable in other societies. true or untrue?"
No, you did not make that clear. It sounded like you said 'other societies where those things are acceptable' and I did not want to comment on what other societies do.
" why can't i buy a beer at 10am on a sunday morning, when i can do it any other day of the week at that time?"
I think I did answer that one. Albeit with another question, which you did not answer. At those stores where you cannot buy beer at 10am on Sunday, are you able to buy beer at 4am on ANY day? If not, why not? I'm sure the answer will be the same for my question as it is for your question. Although, it would be best to ask the store owner why he can't (or won't) sell beer at 10am on Sunday or at 4am any other day.
and i was obviously being sarcastic about other societies. show me where stealing and murder are acceptable.
and i believe that there are areas that forbid buying of alcohol in the early morning hours, but that has to do with accidents and drunk driving. i can't believe that you have never heard of blue laws, laws that only apply to sunday. it has nothing to do with whether the store owner wants to sell it. it's a law. so again. why on sunday morning and not the other mornings at the same time?
Yes, you're talking generalities. Figure out which religion you want me to be an expert at and I'll do my best.
"and i was obviously being sarcastic about other societies. show me where stealing and murder are acceptable."
"obviously"? Let's use the murder example. What society does OBL belong to? His ideals allow the murder of innocent lives to achieve the 'express-train' into heaven. In fact, certain murders (fatwa) achieve 'extra' rewards when committed. Just ask Salman Rushdie
" so again. why on sunday morning and not the other mornings at the same time?"
Well, again, you'll have to ask someone who set the laws that forbid what you demonstrate is forbidden. Ask the lawmaker "why" they made that law. Are you saying there are NO places in the US that allow selling of beer at 10am on Sunday?
does osama represent an entire society? does the fatwa come from every muslim country? not that i remember. i also don't think most of those good christian ministers in the south condemned suppression of blacks.
i never claimed that you could not buy beer in the whole country on sunday. just another attempt to weasel out of the question. i don't have to ask why you can't buy beer on sunday. it's the blue laws, based on the idea of keeping the sabbath holy. do you have another explanation?
My religion teaches that the man is the head of the household. It's not an absolute, but the preferred way. Because man is the 'protector' of the family. He's the 'hunter/gatherer'. It relieves some of the pressure of daily living from the wife and promotes continuity throughout the family structure. A good example is HC crying the other day over the pressure she is feeling during the election. Bill should have been there to support/protect her, but he was not and she broke down over something minor. That's why Christian values are so important. You know, if you don't like Christianity, no one is forcing you to be one. You are free to make your own choice, just like I am.
"does osama represent an entire society?"
Yes, he does. Just as our leaders represent our society.
" does the fatwa come from every muslim country?"
It certainly can. Whether it 'does' or not I do not know. But any muslim from any country is advised to fulfill the fatwa 'in the name of their god'. Again, is Salman Rushdie in danger from the ayatolla komeini? Didn't his fatwa begin back in the 70's or early 80's? Are you saying that he is welcomed back into the Muslim society? How about Van Gogh? Why was he killed and what did the Muslim society say about that death?
"i also don't think most of those good christian ministers in the south condemned suppression of blacks."
Perhaps they are(were) not as "good" as you claim they are. How about the "good" senator Byrd? How do you feel about his opinion on slavery? Oh, I see, some men can change some cannot??
"i don't have to ask why you can't buy beer on sunday. it's the blue laws, based on the idea of keeping the sabbath holy. do you have another explanation?"
Well, then, you seem to know the answer. Why do you keep asking me? Is there something wrong with the "blue laws"? Are you saying that you WANT alcohol available to teenagers on Sunday morning? Perhaps that's one of the many reasons the US is considered a Christian nation. Again, if you want someone other than a Christian to be in control, then vote for them.
and no, osama does not lead any society. if you want me to say there is too much tolerance of violence by some muslims, that is true. but that is not all of them. and i was not calling those ministers "good". it was sarcasm and you know that.
i nowhere suggested or implied by any stretch of the imagination that i want to sell beer to teenagers on sunday. so you have obviously conceded the argument that it is done for purely religious reasons.
And, you're welcome to come to your own conclusion/opinion. I don't think it's a strawman arguement because I believe what I believe. You asked me, and I told you. Whether you believe it or not does not make it any more/less true to ME.
"and no, osama does not lead any society. if you want me to say there is too much tolerance of violence by some muslims, that is true. but that is not all of them."
I didn't say all of them, either. But, obl most certainly does lead a society that believes in that sort of thing. Something you asked me to point out, which I did. You denying it doesn't make it less true.
"i nowhere suggested or implied by any stretch of the imagination that i want to sell beer to teenagers on sunday. "
Then, what's your point of asking? Are you just trying to show my religion is false or neglegent? I think you are. And, that is my opinion. If you're going to ask 'leading' questions, then expect 'leading' answers. You imply since my religion prefers not selling beer on Sunday morning and you want beer sold on Sunday mornings that my religion is dangerous to the sanctity of the USA. I pointed out that there are reasons (besides religious ones) for not selling beer, but you refused to accept them. That is not my problem or requirement to continue trying to convince you of anything. You believe what you want. If you want beer sold on Sundays go somewhere that sells beer on Sundays.
Two different things. You asked why beer can't be bought on Sunday mornings and I said ask the lawmakers who made that law. I DID NOT say you don't have to participate in my religion if you want to buy beer. You had several questions going and you are now taking answers out of context. If you want me to answer WHY laws were made (60-100 years ago) relating to your ability to buy beer on Sunday morning then I have given you the answers you seek.
Show me where banning beer sales is "plainly" based on religion. And, if you go recheck my replies, I said beer sales are determined by law, not religion. Give me proof of your contention that these restrictions are "plainly" based on religion. If you can do that, then explain why some areas allow beer sales on Sunday while others do not. After all, you started out saying 'many' places don't sell beer on Sunday morning at 10am. If this restriction is based "plainly" on religion then how is it some places don't follow these restrictions while others do? I told you at the beginning (and you refused to accept) it is because local law determins when beer sales are allowed. PROVE those sales are restricted by religion. It IS, after all, your contention of that fact(?), is it not?
I gave you resonable answers to unreasonable questions. What more can I do if you choose not to accept my answers? YOU make the claim it is a religious reason, yet expect ME to prove it. You are very illogical. First you state that "law" prevents you from buying beer, then state religion prevents you from buying beer. I agreed law prevents you from buying beer (and was first to mention it), but you say that reason is bogus. So, you and I both claim that beer isn't sold because of the law, then you claim the reason is bogus. If you're going to make up reasons why beer isn't sold, then make up some proof, too. In other words provide PROOF for what YOU claim as FACT!
I'm sorry, but I'm running around in circles with you. You get flustered easily and quickly misquote what is right there to be seen by all. You ask "leading" questions then choose not to accept logical answers. What more do you want from me? Are you expecting me to change my religious beliefs because you want to buy beer at 10am on Sunday? I think you've taken this off topic conversation to it's limit with your inane statements.
"I think the offspring of an atheist and a Muslim is unlikely to be a Christian."
2 wrongs don't make a right? Is that your stance?
You might see them as 2 wrongs, but I see them as 3 wrongs – and resent, as much as Atheist probably does, what you are insinuating by your comment, which is… Atheism = wrong, Islamic = wrong, Christianity = right. Well praise Jesus, you righteous SOB.
But, either way, I wouldn’t let Obama’s religious beliefs stand in the way of my vote unless it could be proved that he had some kind of fundamentalists’ beliefs that would override his upholding the constitution or threaten the security of the nation.
Having abandoned my baptized religion, and no longer being a “person of faith” myself, I understand where Atheist is coming from. I am sure there are thousands, if not millions, of “closet atheists” out there in America – but as of 2008, the profession of Politics is not one in which you would want to “come out of the closet” as an atheist and expect to survive on a national level. I’m sure all I’m doing here is clearing up what Atheist says in her post.
Yes, those most certainly are "allegations".
Obama is as Christian as the other candidates, yet many here fear Huckabee will 'use' his Christianity to alter American philosophy, a fear those same many don't have that Obama will use his Christianity to do the same. Do you really think Obama won't draw upon his Christian upbringing when making decisions while president? Hypocrisy seems to run deep in the thought pattern of hard core left-wingers.
When Huckabee claims women do not have equal "rights" you have a point, otherwise you do not. Women are inferior athletically, do you agree? Yet our laws say women are equal to men. Wow, you will never be able to watch a sport again, because sports are violating our equality laws!!
Your strawman arguement isn't even good enough to call it that. Obviously, you are not going to vote for Huckabee, but to flat out lie about his positions is just wrong. Tell me, who are you going to vote for? I bet I can find one statement that disagrees with our "law" by that person. Especially, if I am allowed the same "writers privilege" that you are taking with Huckabee's statements.
If I instead posted... "....then there is the fact that Roger Clemens took steroids", then YES that would be MY allegation.
In other words it looks like she used the word "allegedly" like it is usually used - to cover her butt against possibly saying something slanderous and untrue. I'm not sure it was the best word choice, since I think that most of what she says is "alleged" is already known as proven fact - but I myself can't say for sure.
Anyhow, It's quite the opposite of what you're making it out to be - but as usual with you wingnuts - up is down and left is right.
Ah ha ha. No one else uses the word allegedly when calling another poster a slanderous name, and I've never seen atheist use the word until then. When atheist provides the proof for what atheist claims then we'll have our answer. Otherwise, what did you bring ... excuses for atheist?
"Anyhow, It's quite the opposite of what you're making it out to be - but as usual with you wingnuts - up is down and left is right."
Easy making blanket statements, isn't it? What is opposite of what I make it to be? One thing that is obviously opposite, of your statement that the 'left is right', is the left is most certainly never right.
Yes, those most certainly are 'allegations'.
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