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NY Times falsely suggested that Hagel and Clinton took different votes on Iraq war resolution

January 15, 2008 12:32 pm ET

SUMMARY: In an article on Sen. Hillary Clinton's vote on the 2002 resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq, The New York Times' Eric Lipton suggested that Sen. Chuck Hagel and Clinton took different positions on the resolution. But Hagel, like Clinton, voted for the resolution -- a fact Lipton did not report.

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In a January 14 New York Times article, reporter Eric Lipton suggested that Sens. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) and Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) took different positions on the 2002 resolution that authorized the use of force against Iraq. But, like Clinton, Hagel voted for the resolution (H.J. Res. 114), a fact nowhere to be found in Lipton's article.

Lipton reported that Sen. Clinton and former President Bill Clinton "appear[ed] to misconstrue the facts" in pointing to Hagel's assertion that his support for the resolution was, in Hillary Clinton's words, "not a vote for war" but rather "a vote to use the threat of force against Saddam Hussein, who never did anything without being made to do so." As purported evidence for the claim that the Clintons misconstrued the facts, the Times article suggested that the Clintons' assertion that Hagel "helped to draft the resolution" was contradicted by the fact that the version of the bill that Hagel helped write -- which "authorized only to secure the destruction of Iraq's unconventional weapons, not to enforce 'all relevant' United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq" -- was not the version that ultimately passed and that Hillary Clinton voted for. Instead, a "slightly less restrictive" authorization bill passed, according to the Times. Yet at no point in the article did the Times note that, like Clinton, Hagel voted for the final version of the resolution, or that he praised the sponsors of the Senate version of the bill (which is "substantially similar" to the House version that passed) for reaching "a far more responsible and accountable document than" the version of the bill the White House was pushing.

The New York Times reported:

In October 2002, Mr. Hagel had in fact been working with Senators Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware, and Richard G. Lugar, Republican of Indiana, on drafting a resolution that would have authorized the war.

But while those negotiations were under way, to the disappointment of some Congressional Democrats, the Bush administration circumvented their effort and reached a separate agreement with Representative Richard A. Gephardt, Democrat of Missouri, then the House minority leader.

That agreement resulted in a bill, sponsored in the Senate by Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, now an independent, which was slightly less restrictive than the proposal that Mr. Hagel had been helping to develop.

In the original proposal Mr. Hagel had backed, force was authorized only to secure the destruction of Iraq's unconventional weapons, not to enforce "all relevant" United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq, which was the language in the version that ultimately passed.

[...]

In an interview published in GQ magazine in January 2007, Mr. Hagel said that he helped shape the course of the debate -- even if it was not his resolution that ultimately passed. He said he helped convince the White House to narrow its request for authorization to go to war just to Iraq. Initially, the administration wanted Congress to approve a broad measure that would not have necessarily specified Iraq as the only target, potentially allowing action elsewhere in the Middle East.

Yet, in an October 9, 2002, floor speech, Hagel praised the compromise bill sponsored in the Senate by Lieberman -- S.J.Res. 46 -- that was referenced by the Times.

From Hagel's October 9 floor speech:

The United Nations, with American leadership, must act decisively to end Saddam Hussein's decade-long violations of U.N. Security Council resolutions.

[...]

S.J. Res. 46, sponsored by Senators LIEBERMAN, WARNER, MCCAIN, and BAYH, is a far more responsible and accountable document than the one we started with 3 weeks ago. I congratulate my colleagues, especially Senators LUGAR, BIDEN, and DASCHLE, and the four sponsors of this resolution, for their efforts and leadership in getting it to this point.

S.J. Res. 46 narrows the authorization for the use of force to all relevant U.N. resolutions regarding Iraq, and to defending our national interests against the threats posed by Iraq. It includes support for U.S. diplomatic efforts at the U.N.; a requirement that, before taking action, the President formally determines that diplomatic or other peaceful means will not be adequate in meeting our objectives; reference to the war powers resolution requirements; and periodic reports to Congress that include those actions described in the section of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 regarding assistance and support for Iraq upon replacement of Saddam Hussein. This resolution recognizes Congress as a coequal partner in dealing with the threat from Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

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    • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 12:51 pm ET)
         

      And the resolution Hagel proposed was altered by Bush to include the resolution "to enforce "all relevant" United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq, which was the language in the version that ultimately passed."

       

      I need a drink... 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by pete592 (January 15, 2008 1:05 pm ET)
         

      I suppose it's too much to wish for when I hope that we've learned our lesson when it comes to declaring war. 

      Congress needs to vote on clear declarations, not this 'authorization' garbage that's contingent on a war-mongering president's interest, or lack thereof, in diplomacy and physical evidence.

      So here we are, mired in a middle-east bloodbath and everyone's pointing fingers.  Have we learned our lesson? 

      (MMFA, thanks for giving us back the text tools!) 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Sueelldd (January 15, 2008 1:05 pm ET)
         
      There is an attempt in the media to make Hagel the next "Maverick" the next John McCain, that is something this man is not, nor is McCain, they are both phonies.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 1:09 pm ET)
         

      What good is all this revisiting and revisionism doing us anyway?  Yes I did, no I didn't, I meant this, I meant that........enough.

      Let's figure out the smartest and least damaging course to proceed to begin to extract ourselves from this war, and we need to be hearing that from all the candidates - not what they did five years ago, regardless of what that was. 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by clams casino (January 15, 2008 1:26 pm ET)
           
        Right, because what possible relevancy could the candidates' historical stance on Iraq have on their future stance on...oh, say Iran?

        How they voted and what they may or may not have learned in the meantime most definitely matters.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 1:30 pm ET)
             
          I don't believe I said anything about "what they may or may not have learned in the meantime".....but you included that anyway. If you can't summarize someone's post without inserting falsehoods, perhaps you'd better refrain from doing so at all.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by clams casino (January 15, 2008 1:34 pm ET)
               
            Well, I do care what they've learned in the meantime. You dismissed the revisiting of what they did five years ago as irrelevant. I'm saying that it isn't.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 1:42 pm ET)
                 
              I did not say it was irrelevant, dear god, can you possibly go one post without a lie sneaking in? I know you despise me, but trying to lie about my every position just makes you look petty and foolish. I said it was not doing us any good considering where we are now, five years later. If I had meant irrelevant, I would have used that term, specifically..........just so you know, irrelevant means it doesn't matter, "not doing us any good" means of course it matters, but it's time to move beyond it.

              If you could stick to your own opinions and leave the rest of us to ours, maybe that would work for you.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Governor (January 15, 2008 1:51 pm ET)
                   
                I disagree. I think it is good and necessary to look at precisely what each presidential candidate did and said in the run up to war. The problem is not the rehashing of their votes and comments; the problem lies with the misinformation of their votes and comments.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 1:55 pm ET)
                     
                  And I respect your opinion. However, I am more concerned as to what they will do now.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (January 15, 2008 2:30 pm ET)
                       
                    I agree, Tommy. Speaking of what they will do now, take a look at Huckabee's latest comments concerning amending the constitution to reflect God's will:

                    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/15/huckabee-amend-the-constitution-to-gods-standards/#comments
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 2:33 pm ET)
                         
                      Snoop, I didn't hear the comments but heard about them, Huckabee will scare more people than he will inspire, his support may be vocal, but nationally I don't believe it wins him much......thankfully.
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by Governor (January 15, 2008 2:50 pm ET)
                       
                    I hope Tom Brady throws 5 TD passes on Sunday. My hope is largely based on past performance, not what he's saying this week during practice.
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by clams casino (January 15, 2008 1:53 pm ET)
                   
                You're really becoming a word parser extraordinaire in your effort to avoid discussing anything of any substance. First of all, there's no reason for me to "lie" about what you wrote--don't look now, but it's just a few posts up for all to see. So if you didn't mean irrelevant, then what exactly did you mean by saying that all this revisiting isn't doing us any good or that you don't need to hear "what they did five years ago, regardless of what that was"?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 1:57 pm ET)
                     
                  Exactly what I said.

                  You call it word parsing when you get caught in another lie, I love it.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 2:02 pm ET)
                       
                    Tommy, just because he uses different words, doesn't mean he's lying. You really need to stop being so combative, take the point, and either counter it or compliment it, instead of automatically blasting Clams because he disagreed with you.

                    On a side note, it is fun to watch though...
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 2:05 pm ET)
                         
                      DB, The point is why does he use "different" words at all? Just state your own position and leave the summarization of someone else's out of it......and "irrelevant" and "not doing us any good" are not the same thing, as I explained already.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 2:09 pm ET)
                           
                        by summarization, do you mean that he summarized your original post?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 2:12 pm ET)
                             
                          DB, I will answer your question because you are a stand-up poster, but I am not getting drawn into a Clams knockdown because it's boring.

                          He misstated my position twice > 1)"what they may or may not have learned in the meantime" - I never said that at all......and then 2) > "You dismissed the revisiting of what they did five years ago as irrelevant" - I never said that either and have already explained it.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Brabantio (January 15, 2008 2:22 pm ET)
                               
                            "...and we need to be hearing that from all the candidates - not what they did five years ago, regardless of what that was."

                            If what they did five years ago is relevant, then why shouldn't we be hearing about it?
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 2:26 pm ET)
                                 
                              I have explained it, if it isn't enough for you either, sorry.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Brabantio (January 15, 2008 2:32 pm ET)
                                   
                                I think it's a different question than anything you're pretending to have answered earlier. But I'm not surprised that you're not capable of responding adequately, of course.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 2:36 pm ET)
                                     
                                  You will say anything to try and get me to argue with you, perhaps you need a little stitching class with Clams to occupy your time as well?

                                  I have explained the difference, you just don't like it, too bad.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Brabantio (January 15, 2008 2:46 pm ET)
                                       
                                    It's a valid and honest point, not some desperate effort at disagreement. Saying "I would have specified" is inadequate, because it's a fair interpretation of what you said. Again, if what happened five years ago is relevant, then why shouldn't we be hearing about it now? Without some specific answer explaining that, you must be saying it's irrelevant. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

                                    In any event, there's no basis to call that a "lie". That's a perfectly defensible comment.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 3:01 pm ET)
                                         
                                      One last time, I in no way inferred that anyone's vote five years ago is irrelevant - that would mean it no longer matters in any context - of course it does, but we are speaking about current events in the context of a presidential campaign where candidates need to be stressed on what they will do in the current climate of Iraq.

                                      How they voted five years ago is as relevant as any other vote of theirs, but it is far more critical to move beyond it, as battling it now does not move us forward, or accomplish anything beyond scoring political points. To say I said it was irrelevant was a gross misrepresentation because it's like saying I could care less how they voted, and that is ridiculous. Everybody cares, but there is a time to get past it and concentrate on the "now", not then.

                                      If this isn't satisfying to you, or Clams, then so be it.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by Brabantio (January 15, 2008 3:11 pm ET)
                                           
                                        Well, everything is relevant in some context, of course. If you're saying it's not relevant in the context you're talking about, then it's irrelevant. I can't believe that you think the word means that it's not relevant to anything at all, or that you don't care about it whatsoever. You can care very deeply about an issue but say that it's irrelevant somewhere else.

                                        I just don't see how if something "matters" why you should be making efforts to move past it. But if you want to create an impression of yourself where you think that makes sense, go for it.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 3:17 pm ET)
                                             
                                          Do you believe the Vietnam War "matters", or any other major historical event in our history, but that we should still move past it? If you can't see where something can still matter, but we also can move beyond it, then go for it.
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 3:29 pm ET)
                                               
                                            We should move past it, sure, but the Vietnam War is a little different than the Iraq war, in that we're still fighting in Iraq. In a state of war, the war should be the first and foremost, because our men and women are dying over there while Washington is trying to figure it out. I agree that we should look to the future and what the candidates are going to do about it now, but what they did at the beginning at the war is still very much relevant.

                                            I think ya'll are just talking over each other. It's a product of the duality of American politics today, and if you want to bring Vietnam into this, that war and the hippie backlash and the conservative backlash of the hippie backlash are the reasons we can't effectively communicate anymore. Two different realities, as far as I'm concerned.
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 3:34 pm ET)
                                                 
                                              at the beginning OF the war*

                                              I've been staring at baseball stats all day, you'll have to forgive me.
                                              Report Abuse
                                            • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 3:35 pm ET)
                                                 
                                              DB, It was merely an analogy regarding how something can still matter, yet be able to move beyond it as well.

                                              I could say the same thing about Pres. Clinton's impeachment proceedings, of course it's still relevant as a part of our history, like it or not, but we should definitely move past it.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 3:50 pm ET)
                                                   
                                                I understand that, and I wasn't trying to refute you, I was just trying to point out that using that analogy only works if you take into consideration that although the vote for the resolution was in the past, that vote is still very relevant today, as we're still in a war.

                                                And it seems to me that we still can't get past the Vietnam War, however much post-boomers like myself try.
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 3:54 pm ET)
                                                     
                                                  And Tommy, I totally agree that the candidates need to talk about their plans for what to do now. I think, however, since they're not talking about it, except in vague generalizations like "I will pull all our troops out in a year," we can only infer what they will do by what they have done. I wish it wasn't the case, but hey, I blame the media.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                          • Author by Brabantio (January 15, 2008 3:38 pm ET)
                                               
                                            If Robert McNamara was running for President (let's say in 1976 or so, not today) then his actions during Vietnam would matter to his candidacy. It speaks to character and judgment. If someone can't address their past behavior, then that should be exposed.

                                            If your point is that what's going on currently is simply more important than the voting history, that's a different story. If that's the case, then both are relevant in the current context, and we should hear about both. It would just be that we shouldn't hear about the past instead of the current situation. Is that it?
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 3:47 pm ET)
                                                 
                                              What I said a hundred times was that debating the original Iraq votes does not move us forward or do any good for the current situation we are presently in........if you don't agree, then fine - to continue with dozens of posts arguing this is ridiculous, even though your stock answer is always that I can't provide an adequate response, when the fact is that you just want to argue for its own sake.......have a fabulous day.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by Brabantio (January 15, 2008 4:03 pm ET)
                                                   
                                                Why are you so touchy? I'm genuinely trying to figure out what your position is here. Even if you believe we should move past the original votes when talking about the war itself, I don't see how you can move past an important part of a candidate's record during a presidential contest. It seems like that should always be talked about.
                                                Report Abuse
                          • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 2:23 pm ET)
                               
                            Hmm, it seems to me that he's inferring and then extrapolating from your posts, not necessarily mis-quoting you or mis-representing you. Just my opinion though.
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by achrispage6992 (January 15, 2008 4:49 pm ET)
                               
                            Just continue to post here Tommy and let everyone else who commonly disagrees with you tell what ou REALLY meant by your statements. Instead of asking you if that is what you meant they would rather start a silly argument by telling you what you meant. You indicated later in the thread what you meant. Seems simple enough to me. Some like to argue with you simply for the sake of arguing with you. It is rather old and infantile.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 5:32 pm ET)
                                 
                              Thanks Chris, even though I am as much to blame as anyone for continuing to fan the flames, for going down this narrow road with these meta arguments while they keep saying "I am trying to understand your position........", when in fact I have answered it over and over, and I should have enough sense to be done with it, but I go back for more, that is on me, not them. And most of the time it's over one word or another that has veered far from the topic thread......and only to be argumentative, it must be boring as hell for most who bother to read, that is for sure. Thanks again Chris......
                              Report Abuse
                  • Author by clams casino (January 15, 2008 2:03 pm ET)
                       
                    God, you're such a child. So I guess that since YOU'VE been caught in so many lies that you're new tactic is to attempt to portray everything I say as a lie? Ridiculous, immature, and completely transparent. If you can't muster a relevant response then don't bother. And that's the last I'll say about that.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by jeter2 (January 15, 2008 2:08 pm ET)
                         
                      Clams, you need a hobby, I mean something other than following Tommy around.

                      Do you sit at here just waiting for him everyday? Seems like it.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 2:21 pm ET)
                           
                        HaHa J,

                        Perhaps needlepoint would keep his little hands busy......Clams, do you want me send you a starter kit, my treat?
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by MHK (January 15, 2008 5:28 pm ET)
                           
                        Will you two (CC and Tommy) Stop with the lying accusations already...
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by clams casino (January 15, 2008 8:08 pm ET)
                             
                          The difference of course is that Tommy actually has lied on a number of occasions, while I have not. Sorry, but I will call him on it when he baselessly throws out the "liar" accusations. And I will gladly post multiple links to threads where Tommy was caught red-handed (most of them having nothing to do with me). I realize that it's boring for most everyone to read this crap, but I don't just roll over and take it when somebody calls me a liar for no reason other to deflect their own dishonesty.

                          Asking me and Tommy to stop these accusations is like asking MMFA and Bill O'Reilly to stop accusing each other of lying. They both make the accusation, so they must both be at fault, right?
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by tommy (January 16, 2008 11:07 am ET)
                               
                            Listen Poodle, while you're at it, why don't you post some of your more hideous and guttersnipish comments...........oops, that's right, you can't because they are included in numerous slanderous and accusatory posts of yours directed at me, that the moderators found so utterly offensive that they were yanked before their ink was dry, isn't that right? Tsk, tsk.......of course it is.
                            Report Abuse
      • Author by pete592 (January 15, 2008 1:26 pm ET)
           
        It's not doing us any good. Unfortunately, the unrelenting lust for election victory dictates that it won't go away any time soon.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by wolfbato (January 15, 2008 1:13 pm ET)
         
      I urge everybody to take Matthews off your DVR/TIVO and let MSNBC know you are doing this. Hurt him where it hurts ... his ratings. Let's get rid of this Fascist ... once and for all.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by pete592 (January 15, 2008 1:28 pm ET)
           
        Is this a new crusade that's going to permeate every item regardless of topic? Or a mistakenly placed post?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (January 15, 2008 1:33 pm ET)
             
          I think somebody has a new "auto response" feature for every thread that the rest of us don't have.......
          Report Abuse
          • Author by jeter2 (January 15, 2008 2:03 pm ET)
               
            Here's my new auto-response:

            Please Mr. Brock sir fix the tech problems you are having with this site.

            I thought they were planning on making improvements, instead they went backwards!

            Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
            Report Abuse
            • Author by snoopy (January 15, 2008 2:35 pm ET)
                 
              Hey Jeter, going backwards - isn't that what the republican candidates are pushing? I though you'd be all over that! ;)
              Report Abuse
              • Author by jeter2 (January 15, 2008 2:39 pm ET)
                   
                Actually Snoop planning on making improvements, instead they went backwards sounds more like the Democratic majority in Congress ;-)
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Governor (January 15, 2008 2:44 pm ET)
                     
                  Actually, Jeter, "planning on making improvements, instead they went backwards" sounds more like the Two-Party Duopoly in Congress ;-)
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 2:49 pm ET)
                       
                    You can't move forward if you don't have a 60 vote majority and the President is vetoing bills left and right (no pun intended.)

                    I believe 2007 was the first year that he used the veto, am I correct?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Governor (January 15, 2008 2:55 pm ET)
                         
                      Bush's first veto was in July 2006 (Stem Cell Bill).
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by pete592 (January 15, 2008 2:57 pm ET)
                         
                      September 2006, embryonic stem cell research funding.

                      http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/19/stemcells.veto/
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 3:08 pm ET)
                     
                  Jeter, you do realize that the Democrats appear to do nothing because the Republicans have formulated a plan to make them look this way. With only a 51-49 majority, and a President who belongs to the minority party, the Republicans have decided to block as much legislation as possible to make the Democrats look inefficient. They're very good at obfuscation, as we've seen with this Bush Administration.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by jeter2 (January 15, 2008 3:23 pm ET)
                       
                    dbeden,

                    Do you realize that my post was about frustration with the technical problems with this site till Snoop decided to make a little joke about Republican candidates. Now Snoop is one of my best cyber buds here so I joked back about the Democratic majority congress. It was meant to be a joke between me & Snoop. Not start an off topic discussion...

                    But since we're already here.

                    The Democrats complained they couldn't get anything done when they were the minority. Now they complain they still can't anything done as the majority. Sadly when either party has the majority the other party acts in a contrary manner. The Dems have done it too. Politics 101.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 3:33 pm ET)
                         
                      Yes, I do realize that, but you did inject politics into it.

                      And I'm not disagreeing with you, I was just pointing out that unless you have a clear majority, nothing ever gets done in Washington.

                      Didn't mean to offend your sensibilities.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by anotheramerican (January 15, 2008 3:41 pm ET)
                           
                        Not to be picky, but the relevant term should be "super majority" and not "clear majority".

                        Okay.. it is picky.

                        Carry on.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 3:55 pm ET)
                             
                          my bad, like I said, thousands of baseball stats will scramble your brain ;)
                          Report Abuse
        • Author by ConstanceRifleII (January 15, 2008 1:34 pm ET)
             
          he's definitely saturating the market. Although I think he's preaching to the choir...
          Report Abuse
    • Author by itsbenj1158 (January 15, 2008 1:14 pm ET)
         
      True story!  Both Hagel and Clinton FAILED to support Carl Levin's bill which didn't give Bush the authority to invade and occupy Iraq.  They BOTH failed, in the exact same manner.  Can you have a substantive discussion about why some Senators supported the bill which DID give Bush the power to declare war and why some didn't?  I won't hold my breath.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mary59 (January 15, 2008 6:50 pm ET)
         

      I don't know what to think about Hagel, who is representing my home state (Nebraska)  His first election on voting machines from a company he owned, was a "surprise."

      But he was one of the few Republicans to criticise Bush's handling of the Iraq occupation. 

      Report Abuse
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