Imus regular on claim that Clinton was "first black president": "I thought it was because he'd had an affinity for fat white women"
SUMMARY: On Imus in the Morning, during a discussion of Toni Morrison's 1998 statement that former President Bill Clinton was "our first black president," comedian and impersonator Rob Bartlett interjected, "I thought it was because he'd had an affinity for fat white women."
On the January 23 edition of ABC Radio Networks' Imus in the Morning, host Don Imus and his co-hosts discussed a question asked of Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) during the January 21 CNN/Congressional Black Caucus Institute presidential debate, by co-moderator Joe Johns, regarding author Toni Morrison's 1998 statement that former President Bill Clinton was "our first black president." During the discussion, comedian and impersonator Rob Bartlett interjected, "I thought it was because he'd had an affinity for fat white women."
During the segment, Imus said: "Well, I like Toni Morrison, and she's brilliant, but -- and I know what she meant by describing Bill Clinton as the first black president, but then asking Barack Obama that the other night in that debate, I thought bordered on -- well, I guess it was a pretty good question." Co-host Karith Foster responded: "But you know what's obnoxious about that question? Is that, you know, I think a lot of people were comparing him to the negative traits of black men, saying, 'Oh, well, you know, because he's a philanderer and he, you know, he plays music and he has -- you know, he grew up poor.' Like, they associate poverty with being black, which unfortunately is true a lot of times in this country, but you know, there's this growing middle class of black people that exists out there. So I think that's why that question is somewhat offensive." After Imus stated of Johns' question, "I thought it was patronizing and condescending when I heard it," Bartlett said: "I thought it was because he'd had an affinity for fat white women." Bartlett appeared on the program vocally impersonating and dressed as Godfather character Don Vito Corleone.
From Morrison's essay for the October 1998 issue of The New Yorker, titled "Clinton as the first black president":
African-American men seemed to understand it right away. Years ago, in the middle of the Whitewater investigation, one heard the first murmurs: white skin notwithstanding, this is our first black President. Blacker than any actual black person who could ever be elected in our children's lifetime. After all, Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas. And when virtually all the African-American Clinton appointees began, one by one, to disappear, when the President's body, his privacy, his unpoliced sexuality became the focus of the persecution, when he was metaphorically seized and bodysearched, who could gainsay these black men who knew whereof they spoke? The message was clear "No matter how smart you are, how hard you work, how much coin you earn for us, we will put you in your place or put you out of the place you have somehow, albeit with our permission, achieved. You will be fired from your job, sent away in disgrace, and -- who knows? -- maybe sentenced and jailed to boot. In short, unless you do as we say (i.e., assimilate at once), your expletives belong to us."
For a large segment of the population who are not African-Americans or members of other minorities, the elusive story left visible tracks: from target sighted to attack, to criminalization, to lynching, and now, in some quarters, to crucifixion. The always and already guilty "perp" is being hunted down not by a prosecutor's obsessive application of law but by a different kind of pursuer, one who makes new laws out of the shards of those he breaks.
From the January 23 edition of ABC Radio Networks' Imus in the Morning:
IMUS: Senator Clinton, Senator Obama at each other yesterday, again.
CHARLES McCORD (news anchor): Yeah.
IMUS: More.
McCORD: Yeah.
IMUS: Clintons must think it's OK to go after him.
McCORD: Did you see [New York Times columnist] Maureen Dowd this morning?
BERNARD McGUIRK (executive producer): They're running for president. Of course it's OK.
IMUS: No, I understand all that, but I mean, they're getting a bunch of heat from people.
McCORD: Mo Dowd is kind of coming --
McGUIRK: But they're winning.
McCORD: I think she -- you're right, Bernie. But she's -- she writes, Maureen Dowd of The New York Times, this morning, here's her start: "If Bill Clinton has to trash his legacy to protect his legacy, so be it. If he has to put a dagger through the heart of hope to give Hillary hope, so be it. If he has to preside in this state as the former first black president, stopping the would-be first black president, so be it."
In other words, that they'll do anything, whatever the heck is necessary.
TONY POWELL (co-host): Another example of black-on-black crime, I guess.
[laughter]
IMUS: Tony, from downtown. Twenty-four after the hour. Well, I like Toni Morrison, and she's brilliant, but -- and I know what she meant by describing Bill Clinton as the first black president, but then asking Barack Obama that the other night in that debate, I thought bordered on -- well, I guess it was a pretty good question.
FOSTER: But you know what's obnoxious about that question? Is that, you know, I think a lot of people were comparing him to the negative traits of black men, saying, "Oh, well, you know, because he's a philanderer and he, you know, he plays music and he has -- you know, he grew up poor." Like, they associate poverty with being black, which unfortunately is true a lot of times in this country, but you know, there's this growing middle class of black people that exists out there. So I think that's why that question is somewhat offensive.
IMUS: Do you think that's what Toni Morrison meant?
FOSTER: I hope not. I think it -- I do think it is the attitude adopted by a lot of African-Americans who felt, you know, closer to this man. 'Cause, like, they felt he was a real guy, which is fine, but, you know, a lot of the traits that people were, you know, associating with his being black were negative ones.
IMUS: I thought it was patronizing and condescending when I heard it.
BARTLETT: I thought it was because he'd had an affinity for fat white women.
FOSTER: Don Corleone.
IMUS: Don Corleone on the show with us this morning.
Tommy
As many know, I am not at all a fan of Imus and was very happy he was fired in April. He is back on another venue, and that is fine, I do not listen to him. I do know how the show works though and to place this story on here is ridiculous. Rob Bartlett is a comedian, plain and simple MMFA seems to be reaching to create some sort of new Imus racism controversy. I am very disapointed in this thread. We have enough polarization with race in America right now with what is happening with the Clintons and the garbage that has been pulled on Obama, we do not need more crap where it does not belong.
FOR ALL WHO ARE WONDERING ...
Why is this here?
The MISINFORMATION being highlighted is the language, by "comedians" and commentators alike, is the perpetuation of STEREOTYPES of Black people. (Granted, this crew left out tap-dancing and eating watermelons, but the REST of their garbage is garden-variety racism. That they're doing it in the guise of bashing Clinton does not excuse the exercise.)
Rightwingers, using MISINFORMATION to perpetuate racist stereotypes. THAT is "why this is here."
That is how Imus bills himself right?
Now I have a question for you.
If Cybercast News Service editor-in-chief Terry Jeffrey inserted this remark into what was up until then a serious political discussion would you find it appropriate?
"If Cybercast News Service editor-in-chief Terry Jeffrey inserted this remark into what was up until then a serious political discussion would you find it appropriate?"
I didn't see an answer in your post.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200801230011?f=h_latest
I'm finding this to be a very curious admission from an self-proclaimed conservative.
- TOMMY / Thursday January 24, 2008 2:18:10 PM EST
That is exactly what you're saying but you can't defend it.
Howard Stern used to have a skit where he threw baloney at the ass of a stripper to see if it would stick.
Would you find it appropriate for Cybercast News Service editor-in-chief Terry Jeffrey to throw baloney at the ass of a stripper to see if it will stick on CNN in the middle of an up until then serious political discussion on The Situation Room.
Please explain why or why not.
You defended Jeffrey's comments about HRC reminding him of "the wicked witch of the west" by claiming its not any worse than any comedian would say even though Jeffrey isn't a comedian but the editor-in-chief of Cybercast News Service and he was on a show not noted for featuring comedy.
Please explain where you draw your arbitrary line?
I draw my arbitrary line at arguing with people who make no sense.
(draw line)
I agree.
I don't think it's particularly funny, witty or original, but it's still a joke told by a comedian on a morning radio show.
TOMMY:
All my comments on the "Jeffrey" thread apply here as well.
About the nature of comedy, the MOTIVATION, the venue.
And also that I hope these misogynistic, racist, clueless rightwingers KEEP IT UP, because the more they talk, the more they drive Average Americans and Democrats to the polls to vote for HILLARY (and Obama, too).
Have you noticed, TWICE as many Democrats are showing up in the primaries as Republicans? Do you realize that if it's the same in the GENERAL, there may not be a Republican left standing once the dust is cleared? A filibuster-proof Democratic Majority can REALLY get some things done, and with a Democratic President to sign it into LAW? Perfect!
If these rabid rightwingers keep pissing off decent folks with their outrageous hateful language .... aw, hell, what do I mean IF?? OF COURSE they'll keep it up; it's all they KNOW!
Yeah this one was a miss by MMfA...it really irks me when the real partisanship and agenda comes through, because I often get lulled into the dream of "MMfA always makes good points about media bias and crappy reporting"
Clearly, the man was a comedian, was brought on as a comedian, and made a comedic joke. Much worse have been made by his fellow comedians. Next.
Funny and here I thought that this was a site for CONSERVATIVE mis-information, not just mis-information in general. Someone calls Bush an idiot, there is plenty of proof to say that this is true. Someone calls Cheney a war criminal, again, plenty available to make that case, strongly I might add.
If Imus makes fun of the Clintons, or espouses some misinformation against democrats, progressives, and or liberals, he's not being targetted, he's letting his own words do the work for him.
You seem to keep forgetting about what this website is for. It's not bi-partisan, and "fair" in the sense that they expose both sides lies and misinformation. Do we need to post the mission statement? Again?
The comments by Imus was reported in the News Paper. He was not lying or misrepresenting the facts.
MMFA has only one Mission Statement. Protect H.R. Clinton. Or anything Democrat.
Never discusses the Liberals at all.
Viewers, as I mentioned on the Jeffrey thread, are intelligent enough too discern between what is intended as a good-natured, funny joke, and what is clearly intended as a mean-spirited, political, partisan pot-shot— an ugly pot-shot that like-minded Hillary-hating partisans will laugh at precisely because it is meant to cause damage.
This quip by Imus, made during a serious political discussion and not a stand-up routine, falls into the latter category. Viewers know it, Imus knows it and Imus knows his audience knows it.
First off, the "quip" was not made by Imus, despite MMFA's best attempts at guilt by association. Secondly, most people know if they want serious political discussion with no humor, they have enough brains to know that Imus isn't going to give them that - his whole morning political routine is based on satire and humor.
So, your characterization of this "quip" is ridiculous, but MMFA thanks you again for defending every single thread, no matter how misplaced.
From ABC Radio's web site, on laugh-a-minute "comedian" Don Imus:
Quite a roster of "comedians" who would never, ever try to inflict political damage on any non-right-wingers. They just tell jokes, folks.
Where did I say anything that was said is a "fact"?
Comedians say jokes all the time, Does Jay Leno and Letterman spout misinformation when they make jokes about Bush and Clinton? Are comedians not allowed to make jokes?
Doris makes a good point, is this misinformation?
"In an upcoming interview with the gay magazine The Advocate, Hillary Clinton says the rumors about her being a lesbian are not true and she says she's never had sex with a woman, no matter how many times Bill has begged her to." --Jay Leno
This is exactly why the joke was funny - and not racist or in bad taste.
I can't tell you how many stand-up black male comedians I've seen on Comedy Central poke fun at this exact phenomenon.
"Moreover for whatever the reasons most Black men are still not interracially dating so they aren’t salivating to get to a White woman fat or otherwise as some folks like to imply. Now I think that will change with the younger generation and I truly believe that's a good thing."-Lynn
Personally, it is a good thing that most black men prefer their own kind, and i do not think that this trend is going to change very much. Why do you think that interracial marriage would be a good thing? What will happen to all of the black women if the men start marrying whites? There should be a stronger cultural force having blacks marry and have offspring with their own kind.
"This may be a cultural thing and it might explain why Black women when polled don't typically have the same problems with body image as White women do when they are polled"-Lynn
i think that they have a smaller problem with body image because they know that the standards of black men are much lower. black women do tend to be overweight more than white women. Maybe its the renown black "cuisine" pearlene told me about.
And we are not talking about different cultural preferences in women, rather we are talking about overweight women, not full or robust women. Unless you think that ALL weight judgement is arbitrary.
I'm on Newbie probation, so my post might not show up until this thread is dead, but..
Instead of left clicking on the word "SHOW", right click, and "OPEN" seems to be working.
What I found interesting is the quote by Toni Morrison. I never heard why Clinton was the 'first black president'. I had always thought it was for something Bill had done for the AA community, of which I was not aware.
But no. It's because Morrison is making a comparison that Bill is being treated like an innercity black male who is being unjustly handled by a racist justice system.
After all, Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas.
It becomes laughable!
I seriously doubt more than a handful of people know this is why Bill is the "first black president'. I cannot help but laugh.
ps. Does anyone know what Morrison meant where she said, "And when virtually all the African-American Clinton appointees began, one by one, to disappear, ...". What did she mean by that?
...and another thing,
Had Imus said the same things Morrison had said, MMFHRC would have had a heyday with it and all my friends here would be calling for the old coot, (Imus not Clinton,) to be tossed off the air once again.
"almost every trope of blackness"
Out of curiousity, from where did you compile this list of "almost every trope", and what are the ones you left out?
Gov,
I didn't put in the quotes because they weren't necessary. What difference does it make if I made it up or used the same words as Morrison? After all, if you had read the thread you would have known. After all, I was talking about Morrison.
As a side note, I l got a kick the fact that you almost took "the bait". (I used quotes here so Gov won't accuse me again of plagerism.) The inference that I was trying to take credit for something listed in the thread is silly and nickpickish. I felt everyone would recognize the words and the colon would separate my thoughts from the Morrison quote, but looking back can see how it is misinterpreted.
Gov and Dave, sorry you couldn't use Morrison's comments to go off on a rant. Better luck next time. :-)
Gov and Dave, sorry you couldn't use Morrison's comments to go off on a rant. Better luck next time. :-)
Yes because certainly those words s--poken by a white person-- would cause nothing but another one of those silly, liberal "rants", and we rant just for rant's sake--nothing else. If those lefties aren't ranting about racism it's some other dam thing like the environment, eh?
Dave,
Nice try at trying to change the subject. I am only pulling your feathers. :-)
It's okay to admit you were ready to go off on me and the list that made up the trope. It was obvious to me by your question asking me where I got it and what I left out.
I don't care. Makes for an interesting conversation.
"It's okay to admit you were ready to go off on me"
As opposed to being ready to do what? Like replying "LOL!-whites reinforcing black stereotypes are sure hysterical!"??
If you had said Morrison's words, would someone then be "going off on you" by replying with a "rant"? Or would they be going off against racism?
Dave,
I don't see why you feel this continual need to play the racist card. The comments by Morrison are either said tongue-in-cheek or they are not. They are either racist or they are not. Any argument you have about the 'trope' is with her, not me. Does Clinton embody typical blacks or does he embody negative black stereotypes? Is it accurate to call Clinton, "the first black president"? Do you think Morrison if paying tribute to Clinton? If so, how can the same words, if used by me, and be racist, are somehow positive when used by Morrison to describe Clinton?
I find your position to be very confusing.
"I find your position to be very confusing."
Put simply: Morrison obviously was deploring the fact (that there were and are those stereotypes, or "tropes"). If a white person had used the tropes to gleefully perpetuate the stereotypes --in the deliberately demeaning way that whites used them for decades in this country-- it would be racist.
Assuming you are white, if you had spoken those words rather than Morrison, they'd have a much different connotation.
"I did write them in my post. And I do deplore racism."
Yes, but those words did not originate with you. They originated from Morrison (who was deploring the stereotypes). You were quoting her.
Had you spoken them originally, as a white, they'd have had a far different connotation.
What difference does it make if I made it up or used the same words as Morrison?
It makes all the difference.
Ah yes. Liberal racism guilt. In your world, it's not what you say, but what color of skin you are born with that defines whether you are a racist. The very same words are racist if used by a white but you'll give a free pass if said by a black. In my opinion you are being condescending towards blacks and holding them to a lower standard by having this double standard.
Your position is untenable. How do you decide which comments here are racist and which are not? You can only do that by assuming their skin color.
You may be well meaning but your double standard is soft racism. You are not treating everyone equal but instead holding blacks to a lower standard. Why is it okay for blacks to use negative racial slurs, words, and tropes but it is not okay for anyone else. Am I the only one, or does anyone else find Gov's attitude to be condescending toward blacks?
"Am I the only one, or does anyone else find Gov's attitude to be condescending toward blacks?"- anotheramerican
I think everybody but you understands the situation. Just out of curiosity, Anotheramerican, do you mind if I ask some personal questions?How old are you, and where are you from?
I won't fault you for not answering, but I do find your take on this interesting.
"As a side note, I l got a kick the fact that you almost took "the bait"."
You also said that you omitted the quotes because they "weren't necessary".
Sounds more likely that you left out the quotes deliberately.
You really don't have a clue, do you?
blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving
This is what racism looks like.
I found her quote to be off-the-wall. It read it as a putdown to both Clinton and his critics. Your impression that it was tongue-in-cheek makes sense to me.
What is interesting how the Clinton's 'first black president' trope has taken on a life that was never meant to be.
It is not that Clinton did anything special for blacks, it is because someone tongue-in-cheek said he embodied all those negative black racial stereotypes!
AA,
I knew that Toni Morrison coined the term, and she has clarified what she meant by that. She was talking about Bill Clinton's background and upbringing which she believed made him more empathetic to the experience of segments of the Black community. This is actually what she said: “Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas.”Lynn,
Does the sentence after your bolded quote do the same thing?
I find your defense a bit hard to believe. You wrote, "she believed made him more empathetic to the experience of segments of the Black community."
Does the Morrison segment after your bolded quotes,"And when virtually all the African-American Clinton appointees began, one by one, to disappear, when the President's body, his privacy, his unpoliced sexuality became the focus of the persecution,..." also make Bill more empathetic?
If so, I'll ask again, what does "when virtually al the lfrican-American Clinton appointees began, one by one, to disappear,.." mean?
What does she mean by, " his privacy, his unpoliced sexuality became the focus of the persecution,...". Maybe you can tell me how that makes Bill more empathetic to the black community?
I'd say you are falling for the black stereotype and expressing liberal racism if you believe Morrison's comparison had any merit. You are, in essence, defending that stereotype by trying to say it applies to black-Clinton.
AA,
I'm not surprised that you would think that or of anything you have said here, it’s a pretty typical Another American response. Morrison was being completely tongue and cheek, she was being facetious. This is something we generally do with each other but Toni did it on an open stage and as expected she was completely misunderstood by society at large, and some just made up what they though she meant. So what Bill background is shared by some in the Black community and the White community for that matter. There is nothing racist about what she said. Try though you guys may you cannot project the isms that appear to be so prevalent on the right and specifically prevalent on the right fringes onto the left. In spite of the silliness that’s going on with the Clintons the left cannot equal the right when it comes to racial insensitivity and or baiting. You own it. I love Toni Morrison’s work but Lord do I wish she hadn’t said that about Bill Clinton because it was truly a Black thing that wasn’t understood. Now I know using that term makes me in your mind a reverse Liberal Black racist but that’s just you AA.Lynn,
I don't doubt for a minute that you are a well meaning and good person. However I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions. (but as my friend Fried says, not that you have to, but in the spirit of a good debate,.)What do you think about those quotes from Morrison. What do they mean?
I do so wish that human beings would be more capable of listening and understanding what they hear...and passing along what they hear with accuracy and context.
I guess Imus is getting his groove back so to speak.The other day just channel surfing he had Bo Dietel on his was yelling and screaming about something.
So I guess that old crew of his is slowly getting back into his rotation.And as far as this comment is concerned I don't see too many brothers walking down the street with "fat white chicks" on their side.
A joke on the Don Imus program (hey, didn't MMFA get him fired? Guess it didn't 'take'!) does not in anyway compare to the gutter level personal (and racist) attacks being used by the Clinton (Bill and Hill) campaign against Obama.
In the latest Clinton ad they use a small clip from an Obama speech to suggest that Obama supports "republican ideas" - It's a lie and it's shameful:
CLINTON AD - (from the AP)
Announcer: "Listen to Barack Obama last week talking about Republicans."
Obama: "The Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This Clinton attack is a lie and a distortion - the AP concludes -
ANALYSIS:
"Ideas":
These dueling radio ads are a continuation of a recent spat that stems from comments Obama made Jan. 14 in an interview with the Reno Gazette-Journal editorial board. At one point, Obama discussed Republicans and President Ronald Reagan in the context of elections that represent shifts in political direction. At no point does Obama endorse Republican ideas, which is a strong implication in the Clinton ad. Indeed, at one point he is actually dismissive of Republican tax cut policies.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I have lost all respect for Bill Clinton and his dirty politics. Bill C. holds a position that few American's can attain - he is an ex-President. And as an ex-Pres Bill needs to be more careful and more truthful since he represents ALL Americans. Not just his wife.
If Obama does not win the nomination I'm not sure if I'll be able to support Hillary in the general election. I know that that is not something that MMFA wants to hear - and I might be banned for criticising Hill and Bill - but it's the truth. And a lot of us Dems are starting to resent the tactics that are used to slime Obama. Tom Daschle (on the Bill Press radio program) really slammed Bill Clinton this morniing.
Not,
You make some good points. Of course, I've always felt this way about the Clintons. However, I've heard other die-hard Democrats expressing your sentiment. The Obama supporters I've talked with are incensed at these Clintonian tactics.
The best thing for Hillary would be for Bill to take a vacation.
Notanother, I totally agree except I know for a fact I won’t be supporting Hillary, I don’t feel that forgiving. Hillary and Bill must be crazy to think that after all of their nasty tricks I'll unite behind her just because I don't like or want another Republican. Gotta say that their campaign tactics remind me of Republicans so where's the difference?
I now treat Hillary and Bill like I've treated Junior for the last 7 years, I hear their voice and I mute my TV.
Lynn, first, bravo, bravo, bravo, great posts!.
I gotta say that last week I was simply mad at the Clintons but after the South Carolina debates, I wouldn't vote for that woman if she was running for dog catcher. That's just how pissed off I am.
I did not start out supporting Obama. I didn't want to simply choose him because he was intelligent, good looking and black. So I went back and forth between Obama and Edwards knowing that if Hillary won I would vote for her because I wanted a Democratic in the White House but then I heard Obama speak. I had a flash back to the 60's and Martin and Robert and from that point on it's been Obama. Change! Change! Why keep buying the same pair of shoes that hurt your feet.
I have never been more amazed at Bill and Hillary. I get it. I now understand why so many dislike the Clintons cause right now I wouldn't give them water if they were thirsty in the desert. Nasty, dirty, slimy, race baiting tactics I expected from Republicans but I never thought Bill and Hillary would stoop so low. So if she gets the nomination for the first time since I voted for John F. Kennedy, I will not cast a vote for President and I can't think of anything that would change my mind at this point.
Pearl,
The Clintons are playing a cynical game here and they're expecting that all will simply fall inline at the end of this particularly Blacks. The Republican Party and their base seem to have a general sentiment that ranges from indifference to outright hostility toward minorities and the Clintons figure minorities won't go there and I certainly won't. Guilt has kept me voting, but I'm beginning to re-think this. I'm tired of giving my vote to undeserving slime balls
Lynn I couldn't agree more. I will never vote Republican, I know exactly how they feel about African Americans but the Clintons have thrown me for a loop. Do I feel comfortable sitting out a presidential election? No, it goes against everything I believe in but I also feel like if I vote for Hillary then I rewarding her and agreeing that the Bill& Hillary nasty, dirty game of politics is OK, but it's not OK.
I know why they decided to play the race card. Obama has appealed to all races. Just taking in Iowa with a 95% white population and his winning as proof. So they decide that if they label him the "black candidate" which he has never ran as, it will appeal to black voters and at the same time he will lose his appeal to white voters by simply painting him as the "black candidate". Brilliant game of politics but something I expected from Republicans, not a Democrat running against another Democrat in the primary. I'll be honest in saying that I knew Obama would have some difficulties after all what people say in public can be totally different from what they do in the privacy of the voting booth but Bill & surrogates race baiting? I would have never imagined that and I'm having a really hard time getting over it.
Is the joke offensive? Ear of the beholder.
Is it offensive that Rob Bartlett is considered a professional comedian? Oh yeah.
Is it offensive that a third rate Howard Stern wannabe like Imus is somehow able to command respect as some sort of serious journalist and political commentator while doing lame wacky morning radio zoo schtick? Oh yeah. (That goes double for you, Gibson.)
Moon,
I doubt anyone considers Imus to be "a serious political commentator".
From the ABC Radio web site:
"Don [Imus] developed a reputation as a hard-hitting interviewer, able to ask tough questions [...] Imus in the Morning [is] the nation’s radio show of record."
Sounds fairly serious to me.
I don't take ABC's promo as anything other than that.
John Stewart on the Daily Show has serious political figures on his show, would anyone consider him other than a comedian? How about Leno?
Not that I listen to Imus, but when I did catch him years ago, I thought he asked some good questions to some serious people, but he always tried to be snarky and funny with his comebacks. I never took him seriously.
I don't really know what to make of serious guests choosing to appear on the Daily Show. Stewart seems to turn his comedy knob way down when it's interview time, but when he is in disagreement with his guests he can be pretty vicious. He's a nice softball interview for those he likes though. Colbert makes even less sense since he is all-schtick all the time and usually makes guests of any ideology look pretty dumb.
But when politicians appear on comedy shows or even talk/variety shows like Oprah or Letterman they are going for cheap mass audience appeal with very little substance. What does Imus bring to the table to get these people to come on? His audience isn't that great, he's controversial and irrelevant and they are very likely not to get in any intelligent points amongst the "hilarity."
I think what Toni Morrison is saying, is that Pres. Clinton was being seen and treated with the prejudice with which black men have been seen and treated:
“[…] when the President's body, his privacy, his unpoliced sexuality became the focus of the persecution, when he was metaphorically seized and bodysearched. […] The always and already guilty "perp" is being hunted down not by a prosecutor's obsessive application of law but by a different kind of pursuer, one who makes new laws out of the shards of those he breaks. [….]”
…by those who had power over them:
“[…] I imagined feral Republicans, smelling blood and a shot at the totalitarian power they believe is rightfully theirs; self-congratulatory pundits sifting through "history" for nuggets of dubious relevancy. […]”
...and that black men could identify with how that felt:
“[…] African-American men seemed to understand it right away…who could gainsay these black men who knew whereof they spoke? […]”
And to those who object to MMFA’s title to this piece, one look at other titles shows this is just how they do things. For example: “Chicago Tribune religion writer ignores…”; or Morning Joe panel condemns…” Maybe they should have said “Imus in the Morning regular…”, but it’s really too long. They DID italicize it to show they meant the show and not the person.
And the “comedian’s” statement had three targets: black men; Pres. Clinton; and the women they claim Clinton has “affinity for”, including presumably his wife. It was not funny, in my opinion.
Thanks, FN. That's close to my take on Morrison's words too. I'm a white guy, and have been for virtually my entire life, so I'll probably go into the ground never fully understanding some of these things.
Compared to some of those fighting to not understand(and demonstrating it in this very thread), I think I've made some progress.
Aside from the racist/sexist bias that is obvious with these idiots, you gotta hand it to Imus. When you look like Whistlers Mother it takes a lot of nerve to criticize others for their looks.
That's a good point. Hillary isn't fat either. But the right-wingers just wallow in hating "her thighness" and so forth.
And let me just guess that those above stated wingers are mainly males, and I'm sure they all have toned physiques.
"Blacker than any actual black person who could ever be elected in our children's lifetime. " T. Morrison
I think it's funny what is lost in all this. Just ten years ago a leading black thinker in our country had such a negative outlook for African American politicians. In that ten years we now have an AA Senator running for POTUS and the Clinton's are trying their damnedest to race bait and undercut Obama's candidacy.
Why hold on to the first "black" president when you can have a REAL BLACK PRESIDENT?
Need a hankie?
Think some of the rhetoric about Bill and Obama is,....overwrought. Covering a fight is alot easier than covering issues. Which at least two correspondents seen here recently seem to find to boring for words.
I don't think sexual prefference regarding how much weight your partner is carrying has anything to do with race. As a bad example anyone remember Joe Bob Biggs Touring with the Dancing Bovina Sisters? Two tons of dancing fun I believe was part of the Billing. Joe Bob confessed to alot of things that while hilarious, didn't bare up to close examination. Regardless he fessed up to being attracted to heavy set gals in print. A slippery character, might have been him that described his sexual proclivities as: Man, Woman, child, or heavy machinery. "you get me up on a Masy Ferguson combine harvester and I'll show you what being a man is all about."
This really is the Clinton Defense site. The remarks you quote from the Imus show are funny. They don't play on stereotypes any more than Toni Morrison's original comments. They are very different than the Rutgers comments, which were just insults.
Karyth Foster's comments make the point that MM was trying to make and Rob Bartlett made a joke about Bill Clinton that only made sense because it was accurate.
Imus is funny. Obviously, he has stepped over the line at times, but what MM does not like is that the Clintons are the butts of his jokes and that they hit home. The Clintons did not like his speech at the Radio TV dinner, but their reaction was to try to get CSPAN to stop running it. After all, they couldn't rebut the sexual jokes about the President as it was in the middle of his escapades with Monica.
I may vote for Hillary, I have not decided, but this type of attempted censorship is beyond the pale and, regrettably, the regular tactic of the Clinton posse.
wait... i thought it was-
"Bill is every bit as black as Barack. He's probably gone with more black women than Barack." -civil-rights leader Andrew Young
Media Matters has one Mission. Protect Hillary Clinton at all cost. No matter how insignificant the comments says.
They need to get a life. After HRC loses the election they will be of no further use to us or to America