Morning Joe panel condemns Gibson's "sick," "grossly inappropriate" comments about Heath Ledger's death
On the January 24 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, co-hosts Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, and Willie Geist characterized as "unbelievable," "grossly inappropriate," and "hateful" comments, highlighted by the blog Think Progress, that Fox News host John Gibson and others made during the January 22 broadcast of his Fox News Radio talk show regarding the death of actor Heath Ledger. The Morning Joe hosts also described the radio broadcast and its participants as "callous," "very insensitive," "not funny," "sick," "absolutely, totally out of line," "stunning," "mean-spirited," and "incomprehensible." In addition, Brzezinski asserted: "I don't know how you stay on the air after doing something like that, quite frankly," later adding, "I don't know how you stay on the air ... after doing that. I don't know who would listen to you." She also stated: "At the very least ... I assume this guy apologizes. ... At the very most, he probably loses his job."
Later in the segment, after airing audio from Gibson's January 22 show, Scarborough asked: "Is he laughing that Heath Ledger died because he made a movie about two gay men? Is that why this young father dying was a punch line to John Gibson?" Geist replied: "Of course it is. That's the implication." Scarborough then asserted: "So, if you make a movie, this is now -- it's not that if you are gay, then your death is a punch line. If you make a movie about being gay, that's a punch -- your death becomes a punch line. ... This is -- I don't know who syndicates this guy, but that is absolutely stunning."
During the "What Have We Learned Today?" segment at the end of the show, Brzezinski returned to Gibson's comments, saying that she had learned "what not to do if you're John Gibson; if you want to keep your career."
Ledger, who was nominated for an Academy Award for his role in the movie Brokeback Mountain (Focus Features, December 2005), was found dead in his Manhattan apartment on January 22. An initial autopsy proved inconclusive and his cause of death is still unknown. Brokeback Mountain was "based on the 'E. Annie Proulx' story about a forbidden and secretive relationship between two cowboys."
Gibson began the segment by airing a montage of quotes from Brokeback Mountain, while funeral music played in the background. In the audio clip, Jack Twist, played by actor Jake Gyllenhaal, says to his lover, Ennis Del Mar, played by Heath Ledger, "I wish I knew how to quit you." Gibson then broke in and said: "Well, he found out how to quit you," and went on to announce, "Actor Heath Ledger found dead today in his New York City apartment." Gibson later said: "You're 28 years old, and you're thinking about death? Give me a break." He later added: "Maybe he [Ledger] was a weirdo." Gibson then aired another clip from the film, in which Ledger's character says: "We're dead." Gibson, adopting a cowboy accent, repeated: "We're dead." Gibson then asserted: "Nah, it's a terrible thing. ... [I]t is terrible. I don't know why a 28-year-old guy is thinking about death. He should be thinking about all the great things that he's going to do in the 50, 60 years he's got left." Later in the broadcast, Gibson again discussed Ledger's death, saying: "You know, there is new news coming out right now that apparently Heath Ledger was suicidal, and his friends saw it coming. I think he watched the Clinton-Obama debate last night. I think he was an Edwards guy, 'cause he saw his Edwards guy was just completely irrelevant -- good looking, wears a suit well -- but should just leave the stage."
From the January 23 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, did you -- you didn't use the John Gibson news you can't use. Did you hear what that guy did yesterday?
BRZEZINSKI: Oh.
GEIST: I heard bits of it, I --
SCARBOROUGH: He --
BRZEZINSKI: I --
SCARBOROUGH: It was unbelievable. He's unbelievable. No, Willie -- Mika saw this --
BRZEZINSKI: I did.
SCARBOROUGH: -- and brought it up to my attention, and this is kind of concerning. Do we -- do we have the clip, Chris, of --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll have it in one second.
BRZEZINSKI: OK, we'll have it in a second.
SCARBOROUGH: John Gibson where he was actually talking about Heath Ledger's tragic death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got it.
BRZEZINSKI: And I believe this -- what you're about to see is a bit callous. Is that a safe way to characterize it?
SCARBOROUGH: I would characterize it as being grossly inappropriate, bordering on --
BRZEZINSKI: Just show a small -- I don't want to --
SCARBOROUGH: It's very insensitive. Yeah, let's watch.
BRZEZINSKI: Just a little bit.
SCARBOROUGH: John Gibson yesterday.
[begin audio clip]
GIBSON: Maybe he was a weirdo.
ANGRY RICH (co-host): I'm thinking about it right now.
GIBSON: OK, anyway, Heath Ledger died, and I'm sure people will be upset. All you Brokeback Mountain fans, you want to give [associate producer] Christine a call, she'll be happy to talk to you.
DEL MAR [audio clip from Brokeback Mountain]: We're dead.
GIBSON: "We're dead."
[...]
GIBSON: Maybe he had a serious position in the market.
TOM SULLIVAN (radio host): Yeah, possibly, and today, he looked at the window --
GIBSON: And said, "Oh my God."
[...]
GIBSON: [A]pparently Heath Ledger was suicidal, and his friends saw it coming. I think he watched the Clinton-Obama debate last night.
[end audio clip]
SCARBOROUGH: And then he went on -- didn't he go on and say something like, "I can't" --
GEIST: I think he did play the clip --
SCARBOROUGH: -- "quit you."
GEIST: -- of "I can't quit you," and he said something like --
SCARBOROUGH: "Looks like he did."
GEIST: "He did quit us."
SCARBOROUGH: "He did."
BRZEZINSKI: I mean, that is just --
GEIST: I don't know if -- is he trying to be funny? That's not funny.
BRZEZINSKI: I don't know, but I don't know how you stay on the air after doing something like that, quite frankly.
SCARBOROUGH: It's not just him, his entire -- that entire team was making fun of a tragic death, and anybody that has had a friend or family member that has fought --
BRZEZINSKI: Struggled.
SCARBOROUGH: -- addiction problems, and the demons of that, and this man, this human being, this father, who had a 2-year-old daughter that he dearly loved, and he left behind -- it's unconscionable.
BRZEZINSKI: Yep.
SCARBOROUGH: I don't understand that Mika, I really -- you're right. Calling this guy a "weirdo"; saying he found a way to "quit us"; "maybe he killed himself because he watched the Clinton-Obama debate" -- this is about as callous, callous and harsh of anything I have head. It is unspeakably rude.
BRZEZINSKI: I also just don't see how you get away with something like that. I just don't. I mean, not that -- I don't know.
SCARBOROUGH: I don't know.
BRZEZINSKI: I don't know how you stay on the air --
SCARBOROUGH: I don't understand.
BRZEZINSKI: -- after doing that. I don't know who would listen to you.
SCARBOROUGH: I don't know.
BRZEZINSKI: Maybe I'm just --
SCARBOROUGH: Maybe people like listening to that.
BRZEZINSKI: -- not edgy enough. What can I say?
SCARBOROUGH: Yeah, making fun of tragedy in other people's lives.
BRZEZINSKI: OK.
SCARBOROUGH: I swear; I don't understand that at all.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, all right.
SCARBOROUGH: What's wrong with him?
BRZEZINSKI: I don't know.
GEIST: Let's make a rule. When someone dies, let's not laugh about it.
SCARBOROUGH: Let's -- let's talk --
GEIST: How about that? Let's all agree on that. Good.
BRZEZINSKI: We'll make that a rule here in the trust tree, and we're now not going to talk about John Gibson anymore because it's too sick. The whole thing's too sick. Let's move on.
SCARBOROUGH: It's sick. You know what? That's actually a great word for it: sick.
BRZEZINSKI: It's sick.
SCARBOROUGH: And it wasn't just John Gibson, it was whoever else was around him --
BRZEZINSKI: The whole thing's sick --
SCARBOROUGH: -- sitting there mocking and ridiculing Heath Ledger, a young man, 28 years old, fighting depression, fighting substance abuse, fighting a lot of demons that a lot of Americans fight every day.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah. Well, OK.
SCARBOROUGH: And he's making it -- he's making this young man's death -- this father's death -- a punch line.
BRZEZINSKI: Well, it was absolutely, totally out of line.
SCARBOROUGH: Let's -- Chris says --
BRZEZINSKI: No.
SCARBOROUGH: -- we have a little more. No, I just --
BRZEZINSKI: No, I don't -- you know --
SCARBOROUGH: -- want to play -- play a little bit more. No, I -- let's see who this John Gibson is.
[begin audio clip]
[begin audio clip -- from Brokeback Mountain]
TWIST: Well, since we're going to be working together, I reckon it's time we start drinking together.
ALMA BEERS DEL MAR (by Michelle Williams): If you don't go out there and finish her.
DEL MAR: You don't know nothing about her.
JOE AGUIRRE (by Randy Quaid): You boys sure found a way to make the time pass up there.
DEL MAR: We was fishing buddies.
TWIST: I wish I knew how to quit you.
[end film audio clip]
GIBSON: Well, he found out how to quit you.
[...]
GIBSON: Heath Ledger died, and I'm sure people will be upset. All you Brokeback Mountain fans, you want to give Christine a call, she'll be happy to talk to you.
DEL MAR [audio clip from film]: We're dead.
GIBSON: "We're dead."
DEL MAR [audio clip from film]: We're dead.
[end audio clip]
SCARBOROUGH: Did you hear him laughing?
GEIST: That's not funny.
BRZEZINSKI: I gotta tell you something. That makes me nauseous. I'm serious. I --
SCARBOROUGH: Did you hear him starting to laugh?
BRZEZINSKI: I cannot believe --
SCARBOROUGH: Is he laughing that Heath Ledger died because he made a movie about two gay men? Is that why this young father dying was a punch line to John Gibson?
GEIST: Of course it is. That's the implication.
SCARBOROUGH: So, if you make a movie, this is now -- it's not that if you are gay, then your death is a punch line. If you make a movie about being gay, that's a punch -- your death becomes a punch line.
BRZEZINSKI: Well --
SCARBOROUGH: This is -- I don't know who syndicates this guy, but that is absolutely stunning. That John Gibson would be that mean-spirited and hateful. There are -- there is no, there is no other -- let's move on. I'm so --
BRZEZINSKI: Please.
SCARBOROUGH: -- flabbergasted by this -- that he is laughing at a young father's death.
BRZEZINSKI: Well, we'll see what happens --
SCARBOROUGH: And again --
BRZEZINSKI: -- because I'd imagine --
SCARBOROUGH: -- and I suppose today, he could say, "Well, he's the guy that decided to kill himself and leave his daughter."
GEIST: Well, he didn't, first of all. We don't know that.
SCARBOROUGH: Yeah, we don't know that that's the case. Also, every family -- gay families, straight families, Republicans, Democrats, conservatives, liberals, evangelicals, Jews, atheists -- everybody has been touched by somebody in their family that has either been impacted by depression or by substance abuse.
BRZEZINSKI: You're right.
SCARBOROUGH: And it is tragic, and the fact that he is making light of it is, again, just, it's incomprehensible. I don't know --
BRZEZINSKI: At the very least --
SCARBOROUGH: -- how the guy sleeps at night.
BRZEZINSKI: -- I assume this guy apologizes.
SCARBOROUGH: All right.
GEIST: Let's not talk about him anymore.
BRZEZINSKI: At the very most, he probably loses his job. Can we move on?
SCARBOROUGH: I don't even look at his face anymore to be honest with you, 'cause --
BRZEZINSKI: OK.
SCARBOROUGH: -- you're right, it makes me sick.
BRZEZINSKI: All right, let's talk politics.
[...]
GEIST: I learned that there's an amusement park in Lithuania that appeals to nostalgia for the Soviet Union.
SCARBOROUGH: And for the Brzezinskis, too.
BRZEZINSKI: These are my home videos.
GEIST: Border guard, interrogations, KGB agents, looks like a lot of fun for the family.
BRZEZINSKI: And I learned --
SCARBOROUGH: And it looks like Mika's youth.
BRZEZINSKI: -- yes, my upbringing -- what not to do if you're John Gibson; if you want to keep your career. Full hour of news is straight ahead.
SCARBOROUGH: John Gibson. Can you believe that? I still cannot believe --
GEIST: Disgusting.
SCARBOROUGH: -- John Gibson. It's unbelievable.
GEIST: Debate tonight, MSNBC, Republicans in Boca.
Tommy, I disagree, Gibson has a pattern and history of insensitve and hateful statements, and as a member of the Conservative press he needs to be outed when he says hateful things.
". . . he needs to be outed . . ."
I'm starting a pool that this will happen to Gibson within a few years. I'm taking "photographed by papparazzi in Miami Beach."
It doesn't matter who Fox News loves. MSNBC loved Imus too. It's the advertisers that count.
Chew on THIS story a bit....
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/23/michael-weiner-savage-losing-advertisers-over-hate-speech/
For them there Excellent Links.
It very well could be Tommy. Journalists and news people with REAL integrity aren't reporting his death as a suicide. The cause is still unknown.
Happy now?
"Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media"
Funny...I don't see the word "politcal" in there anywhere
Snoop,
That is an unfair link that MMFA is perpetrating then. Just because some nutball like Gibson makes these heinous comments that has nothing to do with anything "conservative", much less any misinformation. They are his own bigoted comments and to extrapolate that any further or beyond that is unwarranted.
This has nothing to do with gay marriage or any "gay" issues, anymore than when Fred Phelps pickets a funeral of a gay man who has died of AIDS.....where is the thread on that?
Snoop,
If you want political parties running around condemning speech from screeching, offensive fools like Gibson otherwise it's some veiled endorsement, then do you admonish moderate Muslim organizations if they fail to condemn radical Islam?
Gibson speaks his own mind and people are under no obligation to denounce anything he says, if they agree with him and say so, that is an endorsement, nothing more. The same goes for the radical left fringe groups in this country, I guess that condemns all liberals too? That is ridiculous.
The point is you can find the most offensive, most hideous remarks made by someone aligned with most political affiliations if you so choose. And then hang them out and demand that those with similar affiliations denounce it, or even opine on it - and if they don't somehow they condone it.......it's a never-ending exercise in futility, and simply ridiculous.
Bottom line, people are responsible for what comes out of their own mouths, nobody else is obligated to have any reaction on that whatsoever. To hang someone's words on anyone else is absolutely unfair, and I know you know that.
Sorry, not buying it. I'd be happy as all git go if the real conservatives stepped up and took their party back. But they aren't in charge anymore, and the ones who are like to book these hate speakers to speak to the GOP faithful. You may not like that fact, but republicans are gonna be labeled by the company they keep. If the GOP really wants to shed that image, it's them who need to stop going on the bobble heads shows, stop inviting the bobble heads to speak at their conventions, stop using the bobble heads to raise campaign cash and stop being seen with the bobble heads. Write your congressman and tell him to get some new friends.
If the best you can do is define political parties by their extremist elements, then I'd suggest you write to your Congressional representatives, because your precious Democratic party has quite the image of being overtaken by the far left wackos in your party........looks as though that is what has you a little nervous so you're out to turn the tables a bit, I got it.
Whatever, I am a member of neither party, so however they label each other is their business. And if you want to label conservatives as homophobes, then don't get bent when some people unjustly label liberals with equally offensive hyperbole.
Tommy, you know what you are missing here? 1st, not once have I ever said all conservatives. You want to expand my writing to include them, that's all you. I've consistantly said conservatives don't control the party anymore, I've consistantly said they should fight to take it back, and I've consistantly said the ones in charge now, the extremists, are the ones giving tacit support to these talking heads.
And I will say that I've never pretended to be something I'm not. You can find all sorts of examples of me saying let's get dirty and give it back in kind. Never lied about that...
Because, in my opinion, this website is not some arbiter of decency - it is about monitoring conservative misinformation, and we all know that is in a political context - look at 99% of their threads for proof of that.
These comments by Gibson have nothing to do with conservatism, and they are not political. So you tell me how it fits into the mission statement by their definition. It doesn't. It is baiting, and is completely at odds with their purported mission to keep conservative on their toes by making sure they accurately report on the activities of Democrats, and or liberals......that is a worthy mission, this is gratuituous.
I have made my feelings quite explicit on the content of Gibson's remarks, if you missed it, sorry.
We disagree on the validity of a talk show host's remarks about a deceased actor as relevant on a political website covering conservative misinformation.
"Media Matters stepped over my line!"
Crying "why is this here?"
'Sted of drinking a beer--
A better response it is clear.
Sigh. To repeat what others have pointed out before:
MMFA: "conservative misinformation — news or commentary that is not accurate, reliable, or credible and that forwards the conservative agenda"
Gibson's commentary here clearly forwards conservative intolerance of homosexuality.
I'm just surprised that Gibson's amazingly crass and blatantly homophobic bit didn't get its own thread.
Your need to question the appropriateness of each post that doesn't fit YOUR own definition of conservative misinformation, as opposed to MMFA's own (which would logically be their standard, regardless of whether you think it is well-defined), is nearly pathological (as is your hypocritical mantra that if people don't like what you write they should just ignore you).
Gibson's commentary here clearly forwards conservative intolerance of homosexuality.
Whoa! Some Conservatives may not be as tolerant of homosexuality as you'd like BUT to say Gibson outrageous & disgusting display here represents Conservatives is ludicrous.
Gibson's commentary clearly forwards Gibson's intolerance of homosexuality, period!
http://www.amazon.com/War-Christmas-Liberal-Christian-Holiday/dp/1595230289/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201215731&sr=8-1
That audience would be social conservatives.
There really is no point arguing otherwise.
Still want to argue about who he is pandering to?
Disgusting, Gibson should be ashamed of himself.
However Scarborough acts like he is high and mightly, his MSNBC clan is as bad as FAUX. That lowlife Dan Abrams last night try to say that the Westboro Baptist Church was a Conservative Group. These are scumbags that picket soilders funerals and when Reagan died in 2004 picketed the Reagan funeral wiuth signs "Reagan in Hell". This is another example of how MSNBC again has no agenda, other than to say that FOX is evil, and anyone on FOX is bad. No wonder they continue to be in 3rd place.
And they intend to protest at Heath Ledger's funeral. This doesn't bother you??? The guy wasn't even gay and they are going to bring this on his grieving family???
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324966,00.html
They can intend all they want, they are aradical psycho group , my point is they are not Conservatives that MSNBC was trying to imply. Abrams is turning into a real polarizing scumbag.
By the way, the funeral is a secret, I doubt that disgusting group will get anywhere near it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080124/ap_en_ot/heath_ledger;_ylt=AhVi6iB9LCSJEv9vbFxqH_ys0NUE
Sue, do you constantly watch MSNBC? You sure seem to know a lot about it.
Anyway, the WBC is uber-psychotic. It's actually in their teachings that a woman will never menstruate as long as she remains pure.
They are constituted as a hate group, and rightfully so.
Sue,
I strongly disagree with you about MSNBC being the left's Fox. Who on Fox would be similar to MSNBC putting on Scarbourough and Tucker? In other words, what liberals/even moderates, does Fox feature?
When MSNBC has candidates on, do they have someone who is an open supporter and fundraiser for any of the Dem candidates?
Does Fox have a host of a show who openly swoons over Dems the way Matthews swoons over McCain and Rudy? Does Fox have a host who attacks a Republican candidate with the viciousness that Matthews has attacked Hillary?
Exactly, Nerzog. I would guess, if someone was counting, that other than KO's show, the Republican candidates making appearances on MSNBC would outnumber the Dems.
Also, I forgot how often MSNBC has put Ann Coulter on. Matthews gave her an entire show once. What liberal authors have had an entire show to themselves on Fox?
Also forgot this: Where are the little misleading captions at the bottom on MSNBC that are totally anti-Republican? Where is the MSNBC business show that continuously bashes Republicans on MSNBC? Which reporters on MSNBC have given candidates advice (Carl Cameron with Bush)?
Fox has hosts like Brit Hume, O'Reilly, Hannity (who has 2 shows), Gibson, Cavuto and has Fred Barnes and Mort Kondracke host a show. Additionally, their panels/guests are all very skewed to the right.
MSNBC has Olbermann and Abrams, the guy who fawns over Republicans like McCain, DeLay and Rudy and repeatedly bashes a Democratic frontrunner for petty reasons (Matthews), Tucker (Republican), Morning Joe (Republican), but seems to have more balanced panels.
How can you equate the two, Sue?
Nerz,
Any idea what her comment to me meant?
Sue,
Is that sarcasm? I was just countering your assertion that MSNBC is to liberals what Fox is to conservatives. I don't understand your reply. Could you please clarify?
Wow, that is....interesting. I agree, their coverage is fairer and less conflict driven (though still very, very conflict driven) than CNN and Fox.
Knowing that you watch it all the time puts a lot of new light on your posts about Olbermann. This may take some time to figure out...
But hey, nevermind all of this, Limbaugh's bagged another one.
"In 1991, WBC took her ministry to the streets, conducting over 34,000 peaceful demonstrations (to date) opposing the f*g lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth."
These troglodytes are the epitome of Conservative Homophobic Theofascists. Dan had it right. They are not mainstream Republican Conservatives, but they are Conservatives, nonetheless.
Well, I sure hope the secrecy holds up. At any rate, it is even more sick and disgusting than Gibson’s “attitude” that they would even announce such plans.
I would be the first to join up with some athiest group and protest at every public ritual which this “church” partakes – carrying large signs and chanting “God Is Dead!” . What goes around comes around – and these fools bring it on themselves.
Even better, protest with signs that say "menstruation is natural"
Well isn't MMFA doing the same thing by highlighting the story here?
I don't see why you'd have a problem with Joe S. reporting on Gibson's disgusting actions.
Can't we get past making a big deal over the MSNBC/FOX feud?
To paraphrase an old gay saying....
They're here, they sear - get over it!
So, really, all you are trying to do is deny that conservatism is in any way tied to/ supportive of the homophobia exemplified by Gibson, despite the repeated reliance of the Republicans on the Christian evangelical condemnation/fear of homosexuality in order to get out the vote, as in 2004.
I recognize not all conservatives are homophobic, but the Republican party, the nation's largest conservative organization, does oppose complete equality for and validation of homosexuals.
For the umpteenth time, he's on FOX. It's a conservative news medium. That should be a pretty simple concept to grasp.
kgonz,
Do all YOUR opinions represent all other Liberal's opinions?
Gibson speaks for himself, it's ridiculous to claim his opinion on this topic belongs to anybody but him!
Jeter, you and Tommy don't have a case. You know you don't, we know you don't. You come here nearly everyday and see the stuff that is espoused by representatives of your ideology. I can see why you don't want to be associated with them. But that doesn't mean they aren't thick within your party and ideology. Splitting hairs does no good. Your goose is cooked. If you want to rail against someone, rail against them.....your Fox people including Gibson. You and Tommy pretend that liberals are just as bad but you have very scant evidence. Meanwhile instead of confronting and unabashedly condemning people like Gibson, you make excuses. He can say what he wants, it's solely his opinion, blah, blah blah. It's rather sickening.
You know what I would like? I would like Tommy and Jeter to come onto a thread like this and say without reservation, prevarication or caveats.....John Gibson said this and it was wrong and disgusting. I hope I don't have to wait too long for you two to man up. When you go on these silly diatribes, split hairs on whether Gibson is doing your partys/ideologys bidding it sounds pathetic. There is no big discussion necessary. Wrong is wrong and it's overwhelmingly the "right" doing the wrong. Denial doesn't work here.
Saying Gibson doesn't represent you doesn't do it for me. If he is wrong and disgusting, he is wrong and disgusting. There's no other place to go.
Meanwhile instead of confronting and unabashedly condemning people like Gibson, you make excuses. He can say what he wants, it's solely his opinion, blah, blah blah. It's rather sickening.
What on earth are you talking about???
Julia, I already gave my opinion of Gibson's comments, here are 2 snippets from 2 previous posts:
I don't see why you'd have a problem with Joe S. reporting on Gibson's disgusting actions.
- jeter2 / Thursday January 24, 2008 4:25:33 PM EST
Gibson outrageous & disgusting display jeter2 / Thursday January 24, 2008 4:18:29 PM EST
You can go back & read the entire 2 previous posts, no where do I suggest Gibson can say what he wants because it's his opinion. As you can clearly read, I condemned his remarks. I have also condemned remarks in the past made by Hannity, Rush, O'Reilly...and yes even Coulter whom you seem to like to joke I have a thing for ;-)
My post to Kgonz is one of two I've written to him on this thread. He's claiming Gibson represents all Conservatives. He doesn't. And you know how irked I get by that kind of stupid blanket statement.
Maybe you should be a tad more concerned about how some in your own party are turning the Democratic primary into a nasty war of words & race baiting.
I'm somewhere between hurt & bullsh#t here with your blanket accusations my sweet Julia.
My goose is cooked? Not exactly sure what that means in this case but it sounds a bit hysterical to me, I'm just sayin'........
Julia, You and others here are more than free to attach someone else's words to those who not only didn't say them, but profoundly disagree with them - all because they each happen to share some portion of a broad political ideology.....if that sounds rational or logical to you, so be it.
Nobody that I have seen condones these horrible remarks by Gibson, they are reprehensible - that is quite evident from my posts, Jeter's posts, and everyone elses. It's placement here is still a head scratcher as nothing Gibson said "furthered any conservative misinformation", Ledger is not a political figure, they were Gibson's pure hateful words, nothing else.
So, the only reason MMFA put this here is to insinuate this did further some "conservative" mindset, somehow - to bait......and the sad part is many of you took the bait, going on about the "company" conservatives keep, or the GOP should condemn this or else they condone it, and how he speaks for all who share his ideology. I, as a conservative, find that incredibly offensive and unfair, as I have explained. And that is the reason for the "caveats" in my previous posts on this topic.
If you can't understand that, I am sorry.
I get that you don't want to be painted with a broad brush, but sometimes it's appropriate to just say the truth without "buts".
I agree. However if a poster would simply refrain from including ALL Republican/Conservatives in their diatribes there would be no need for me to inject a "But".
For instance, a poster writing that Gibson is slime for saying this & represents the worst of the Conservatives, the extreme Right-Wing, I'd be cool with that & would agree--no "Buts" needed. However if, as many here do, a poster writes Gibson speaks for Conservatives they are all a bunch of homophobes...I'm sorry but me pointing out that it's bunk is not inappropriate.
And just so you know - since you aren't a mind reader - most of my post was to T.
I figured as much, but in Tommy defense, he was simply offering another point of view, which as he wrote was: "Ledger is not a political figure, they were Gibson's pure hateful words, nothing else." You & others here may not agree but debating that back & forth is not verboten. This forum allows us that.
If you are serious about conservatives being labeled as all the same, maybe just stating the truth without prevarication is the way.
Again when applicable I do. However I'm not going to just become some bobblehead here if I read something that needs clarification. Example...for the past several weeks the Democratic primary, specifically the Clinton-Obama feud has been front & center. Some here want to blame it solely on the media rather than accept or admit that it has been Democratic/Liberals that have been engaging in race-baiting. Some, laughably, are even blaming Republicans.
Certainly the media seems to relish this controversy [as they do any controversy] but it's the attitude of some here to toss blame everywhere else than where it belongs that I find just as deplorable & disingenuous as anything some nutty Far-Right poster would write here.
Julia, you & I may differ on some issues, but I think it's a tad unfair to label me as someone who always tries to make excuses for the worst of the Right, be they pundits, op-ed columnists, or TV/Radio hosts. If I add a "But" occasionally, it's for good reason, IMO. And just for the record I find Gibson to be one of the worst among the whole lot of them. My objection here was that he was being described by some as some sort of spokesperson for most Conservatives.
Anyway hope we can still be cyber buds even when we have a disagreement...you are still my sweet feisty Julia :-)
Hey, J2. You are still my bud, that was never in question. But I never said you do this all the time, often enough where I notice though. I think it is appropriate to argue somtimes, but often the long back and forths (which you normally do not engage in - that would be the other fellow - seem to be done just for distraction. They rarely contribute anything meaningful.
Have you ever written in to these shows or taken any action (like turning them off) when you see egregious things being said? Just wondering. That was more rhetorical, you don't have to answer.
As far as the Dems, I think you and I could agree that the media takes scraps and turns them into mountains and distorts them on the way. HRC and Obama will get what's coming if they continue to denigrate each other but I don't see it in the strong way you do. That said, I think I will dub you the new Don King, promoter of the Dem fight club.
"Jeter, you and Tommy don't have a case. You know you don't, we know you don't. You come here nearly everyday and see the stuff that is espoused by representatives of your ideology. I can see why you don't want to be associated with them. But that doesn't mean they aren't thick within your party and ideology. Splitting hairs does no good. Your goose is cooked. If you want to rail against someone, rail against them.....your Fox people including Gibson".- JULIAJAYNE / THANKS J.J.
The MORNING JOE SHOW IS BUSY with Republican Damage Control by properly distancing themselves from GIBSON. Meanwhile The TOM & JERRY-2 SHOW is busy attacking MEDIA MATTERS for properly including this telling exposure of conservative humor. We all know Cons are anti-gay and make Gay Jokes!
GIBSON knows his Republican listeners well. He knows that many in the BASE
are OK with this anti-gay humor. Heck most of my good Republican friends are always telling me Gay Jokes and Racial Jokes too.
Good try guys but Julia Jayne has cooked your Conservative Gooses and I really think we all know it. She's got you in her freezer and will serve you at a Gay Bashing Party. I'm Just Kidding Guys!!
Right, Crapture. The WITH patrol might pretend that this has nothing to do with more GOP media spin, but it is all about homophobia, as others have pointed out, as well as...HOLLYWOOD!
I first heard of Ledger's death at lunch the day it was reported, as I scanned by Dennis Prager's radio show. He was taking phone calls, and I caught 2 of them before I hit my limit.
The first caller had his theory; the "Gay Pressure" had caught up with the actor, and his career was so destroyed that he comitted suicide.Never Mind that, as far as I know , Heath Ledger's career was doing just fine. Now we know that not only is being gay risky and lethal behavior, just playing a gay character in a movie can lead to an early death.
The next caller told Prager that he had no sympathy for these Hollywood people who got everything on a silver platter and screwed up.
Prager asked the man if he was a Christian, to which the caller answered yes.Prager (to his credit, which I won't dish out to Prager, except rarely and in a relative sense) remarked that he would expect more compassion from a Christian.
The caller explained that he had teenage kids, and cared about them, but didn't give a damn about one of these Hollywood people dying.
I don't remember Jesus putting any city limits on his teachings, but I guess that;s just me.
Hey folks, I got good news from the Weiner, Hopefully and very soon he'll be able to leave his secret location.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/23/advertisers-drop-savage-o_n_82901.html
And Imus was "joking" too. I only hope there is a much an uproar for this insensitive blatantly homophopic slur as there was for Imus. There is nothing I would love more than to see these Faux hate mongers taken off the air - one by one. They are all headed down the same slippery slope.
Love or hate Scarborough, he had one thing right for sure - poking fun of someone's death is just sick.
You’re probably right, Nerzog – but until you see only advertizements for other Fox shows on their programs it means someone else IS sponsoring them. The same type of grassroots campaign that is killing Michael Savage needs to be started for Gibson.
Via The Huffington Post...
At least four major firms have pulled advertising from Michael Savage’s nationally syndicated radio show following a campaign highlighting his inflammatory rhetoric. One other company, Geico insurance, is expected to follow suit.
The campaign, launched recently by Brave New Films, generated thousands of calls urging advertisers on the Savage Nation show to sever financial ties to the widely popular (and frequently offensive) talk host.
“We are thrilled at the amazing response of the true patriots all over the blogsphere who responded to our NOSAVAGE campaign,” Robert Greenwald, head of the film company, said in a statement. “People have called and emailed and the responsible sponsors have responded by pulling their ads and asking that their ads not be on this racist and hateful show.”
You should check out the link to the C&L story I posted earlier in this thread for more details on the Savage story - and blogger comments.
No problem - don't u hate when that happens?:)
http://www.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/
I've heard this story mentioned once on cable TV. The Free Press is dead.
It's a thetorical question. There isn't.
Let me clue you in: if another conservative commentator is so foolish as to defend John Gibson's remarks, Media Matters will post that, too. If Michael Savage starts to talk about how the gay gestapo is trying to destroy John Gibson, and Media Matters posts a clip and a transcript, will you then assert that MediaMatters is supporting Savage?
That's as absurd as this is.
TOMMY: The “guilt by association” and “loyalty at any cost” is a Republican thing – and again you try to project that way of thinking on liberals. We don’t think that way.
Hell, I do the exact same thing with members of my own family!
Dexter, did you learn about irony from Alanis Morrissette?
Hahaha did you get your name from a condiment jar hahahahah...
Thanks for the link, Snoopy. Well, we all knew he would play it off as a joke. He couldn’t hold off on his little ongoing “joke” even out of respect for the dead? He is one sick puppy and yet apparently not the least bit bothered by it.
How does he explain the disparaging sarcastic-sounding comment, ”All you Brokerback Mountain fans - You can give Christina a call, she’ll be glad to talk to you” (followed by chuckling in the background)??? This was a “joke” too?
What he was REALLY saying there – and it is as obvious as the blemishes on his ugly face – is, “(As a conservative Republican male and known gay-basher) I could care less about this dead f@g-actor – but if there’s any queers listening who do, you can get some compassion by calling our token Conservative republican female pundit, since it’s ok for Republican women to ‘show compassion’ for queers.”
Does he think anybody else heard that any differently than the way I just portrayed it? I’m off to the GLADD website to sign up for the petition to boot his butt of the air.
I think my favorite part of all the above "debate" is the demonstration that conservatism is now and always will be perfect. No matter how much conservative credibility a person has, say enough to get them multiple television shows and published books, they are instantly stripped of the label of conservative when they inevatibly do or say something that causes controversy. This is the same screwball line of thinking that brings us such brilliant thoughts such as "George Bush is really a liberal if you think about it."
Gibson is not some unpopular fringe lunatic here. This guy is a well known mouthpiece for the right wing and as such it is completely reasonable to question if he enjoys support amongst them. This isn't Fred Phelps and his insane crusade. This isn't some obscure intellectual like Ward Churchill that the wingnuts elevated to celebrity status so that they could hang him around the necks of liberals. This is a genuine member of the club and it is no surprise at all that he has become so comfortable in his sense of power and entitlement that he just says any old thing that pops into his head.
Wingnuts- this is your guy, you made him, you apologize for him.
The really sad part is that Gibson is paid millions to spew his stupidity on the air.
Nerzog,
You make a great point, and I agree with you. These wannabes just ache to get the notoriety Rush has, and his audience. He operates just between the lines, where these others think they can be just like him and people will tune into them by the droves. Fact is they just look silly, and they think publicity like this translates into ratings, which puts $$$ in their pockets. Let's hope the advertisers realize how asinine they are and pull the rug out from under them.
http://www.amazon.com/War-Christmas-Liberal-Christian-Holiday/dp/1595230289/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201215731&sr=8-1
That audience would be social conservatives.
There really is no point arguing otherwise.
The subtitle to the book is How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought.
Still want to argue about who he is pandering to?
Funnier thing, this kinda stuff is on talk radio every day.
Is TV somehow sacrosanct?
I am not condoning this speech, I am asking, why the double standard?
Jeter, you and Tommy don't have a case. You know you don't, we know you don't. You come here nearly everyday and see the stuff that is espoused by representatives of your ideology. I can see why you don't want to be associated with them. But that doesn't mean they aren't thick within your party and ideology. Splitting hairs does no good. Your goose is cooked. If you want to rail against someone, rail against them.....your Fox people including Gibson.- JULIAJAYNE / Thursday January 24, 2008 7:30:04 PM EST
The MORNING JOE SHOW IS BUSY with Republican Damage Control by properly distancing themselves from GIBSON. Meanwhile The TOM & JERRY-2 SHOW is busy attacking MEDIA MATTERS for properly including this telling exposure of conservative humor. We all know Cons are anti-gay and make Gay Jokes!
GIBSON knows his Republican listeners well. He knows that many in the BASE
are OK with this anti-gay humor. Heck most of my good Republican friends are always telling me Gay Jokes and Racial Jokes too.
Good try guys but Julia Jayne has cooked your Conservative Gooses and I really think we all know it. She's got you in her freezer and will serve you at a Gay Bashing Party. I'm Just Kidding Guys!!
They were "Running Scared" like two chickens with their heads cut off. I just got back from Precinct Inspector training here in Southern CA. for our election on Feb. 5th. I'm so exited about the prospects of taking our country back. So many youngsters are getting involved this time and that's a wonderful thing.
Excellent Post Julia!
[url www.freewebs.com/writingindependence/FischerEditorial.pdf[/url]
Timmothy Rutten of the LA times applies his seasoned and epicurian knowledge of the world of big leagues chess to further character assassinate Fischer 1/25/08.
IF & WHEN the T & J2 Tag Team Duet admits that " It makes conservatives look bad," I'll crawl on hands and knees to the nearest Airport, fly out of the country in sheer disbelief, never to return until you read them the RIOT ACT again.
Most men are from MARS... Most women are from VENUS. "OH VENUS!" ...
Venus, goddess of love that you are
Surely the things I ask
Can't be too great a task
Venus, if you do
I promise that I always will be true
I'll give her all the love I have to give
As long as we both shall live
Hey, Venus! Oh, Venus!
Make my dreams come true
- Sam I Am -