Confronted about using graphic from Council of Conservative Citizens, Dobbs asked: "[G]ot anything a little more recent?"
SUMMARY: On Lou Dobbs Tonight, National Council of La Raza's Janet Murguia accused host Lou Dobbs of using "hate groups to make your case on immigration," noting that Dobbs had aired a graphic from the Council of Conservative Citizens, a group linked to white supremacists. Dobbs responded: "You got anything a little more recent?" He also asked, "How long was that on the air?" When Murguia responded, "It doesn't matter how long," Dobbs replied, "Of course it does." Dobbs also labeled the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center as "absolute advocate groups for open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens" and said of the ADL, "They are a joke."
On the February 4 edition of CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight, National Council of La Raza president and CEO Janet Murguia accused host Lou Dobbs of using "hate groups to make your case on immigration." As evidence, she noted that Dobbs had aired a graphic from the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC). During the discussion, Murgiua held up a screenshot of the CCC-sourced graphic, which appeared on the May 23, 2006, edition of the show and featured a map of Aztlan (the portion of the American Southwest that purported supporters of the "reconquista" movement are said to believe belongs to Mexico). However, Dobbs dismissed Murquia's criticism, asking "You got anything a little more recent?" He also asked, "How long was that on the air?" When Murguia responded, "It doesn't matter how long," Dobbs replied, "Of course it does," adding that it was aired only for "[s]econds." Dobbs went on to say, "You have just given them more airtime than this network, this broadcast ever did." In response to the criticism of CNN over the appearance of the graphic, on May 25, 2006, a CNN spokeswoman said that a producer had "grabbed the Council of Conservative Citizens map without knowing the nature of the organization" and that its inclusion in the segment "regrettably, was missed in the vetting process."
According to the CCC's Statement of Principles, authored by Sam Francis, a now-deceased former Washington Times and syndicated columnist who made numerous controversial race-related remarks: "We therefore oppose the massive immigration of non-European and non-Western peoples into the United States that threatens to transform our nation into a non-European majority in our lifetime. ... We also oppose all efforts to mix the races of mankind, to promote non-white races over the European-American people through so-called 'affirmative action' and similar measures, to destroy or denigrate the European-American heritage, including the heritage of the Southern people, and to force the integration of the races."
Dobbs also labeled the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) as "absolute advocate groups for open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens" and said of the ADL, "They are a joke." In fact, According to the ADL, the organization "was founded in 1913 'to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all'" and "fights anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry, defends democratic ideals and protects civil rights for all." The SPLC was founded in 1971 and, according to its website, "is internationally known for its tolerance education programs, its legal victories against white supremacists and its tracking of hate groups."
Dobbs also made repeated reference to the SPLC as a "fundraising organization." Minuteman Project founder Jim Gilchrist also called SPLC a "fundraising organization" on the January 30 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck. In response to a question about ADL's involvement in the immigration debate, Gilchrist said: "Fundraising. Anti-Defamation League, like the Southern Poverty Law Center, are professional fundraising groups. And if they can proliferate hate by using people like Mark Krikorian and the Center for Immigration Studies or Jim Gilchrist, Minuteman Project, as a target for their hate, they can raise millions of dollars."
From the February 4 edition of CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight:
MURGUIA: Sure. I'm sorry. You said that you support the Minuteman Project, and that they're fine Americans who make it up, who make it up in all they've accomplished fully, relentlessly, and proudly.
DOBBS: Right.
MURGUIA: So I want to make sure you understand. These are folks who are documented to be part of hate groups.
DOBBS: Who documented them?
MURGUIA: Southern Poverty Leadership --
DOBBS: Southern Poverty Law Center?
MURGUIA: And the American Defamation League [sic], ADL.
DOBBS: Right. Both of whom are absolute advocate groups for open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens.
MURGUIA: That's your opinion.
DOBBS: No, it's not my opinion.
MURGUIA: Yes, it is your opinion.
DOBBS: No, it's a fact.
[...]
MURGUIA: I think you couch this -- you give them this aura of respectability. You also cited in 2006 a source of your, you know, branding CNN and Lou Dobbs around the Council of Conservative Citizens, which also the SPLC has named as a white nationalist hate group. This is a group that denigrates, routinely, blacks as genetically inferior, complained about, you know, Jewish power, and also denigrated homosexuals as perverted sodomites. All I'm saying is, you're co-branding yourself and CNN with a white supremacist nationalist hate group.
LOU DOBBS: Did we do that?
MURGUIA: This is --
DOBBS: Did we really?
MURGUIA: -- this was on your program on May 23rd --
DOBBS: How long was that on the air?
MURGUIA: -- 2006.
DOBBS: How long was that --
MURGUIA: It doesn't matter how long.
DOBBS: Of course it does.
MURGUIA: It doesn't.
DOBBS: Of course it does.
MURGUIA: You are using hate speech, hate groups to make a case on immigration.
DOBBS: I'm going to tell you straight up --
MURGUIA: To make a case on immigration.
DOBBS: Do you want the answer?
MURGUIA: Sure.
DOBBS: You want to know how long it was on the air?
MURGUIA: It doesn't matter.
DOBBS: Seconds. You have just given them more airtime than this network, this broadcast ever did.
MURGUIA: And I'm holding you accountable for having given them any sort of exposure.
DOBBS: Oh, you are?
MURGUIA: And the fact that you're associating yourself --
DOBBS: So you should be --
MURGUIA: -- with this extremist --
DOBBS: I associated myself?
MURGUIA: You cite them as a fact --
DOBBS: I did?
MURGUIA: -- on this.
DOBBS: Did I?
MURGUIA: This says, "Dobbs -- LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, CNN."
DOBBS: Right.
MURGUIA: That's there for everyone to see.
DOBBS: Right.
MURGUIA: And this is from your show on May 23rd, 2006.
DOBBS: Right.
MURGUIA: This kind of hate speech, this kind --
DOBBS: From what year?
MURGUIA: 2006.
DOBBS: Right. You got anything a little more recent?
[...]
MURGUIA: You know, the ADL documents code words for hate.
DOBBS: The ADL -- oh, yeah, sure.
MURGUIA: And you've used a few of those code words for hate.
DOBBS: Name one code word.
MURGUIA: Well, they talk about dehumanizing and demonizing immigrants --
DOBBS: That's their word. It's not my word.
MURGUIA: Well, I'm telling you, they've had a --
DOBBS: What's my word?
MURGUIA: -- clear record of documenting hate speech.
DOBBS: They have?
MURGUIA: Yes, they have.
DOBBS: The ADL is --
MURGUIA: They are a very well-respected voice.
DOBBS: Not by me.
MURGUIA: The Anti-Defamation League --
DOBBS: They are a joke.
MURGUIA: They are not a joke. They are a long-standing organization.
DOBBS: I want you to go to that website of yours and listen to that discussion on there. That woman is a joke. OK?
[...]
DOBBS: Janet Murguia, you have contributed to, to me, just a reprehensible approach on the part of any organization. You've joined the Southern Poverty Law Center, which is now nothing more than an advocacy and fundraising organization. I think you are the one who should be held accountable.
Typical La Raza underhanded tactics; call anyone who is an advocate for tighter border security, the sovereignty of this nation, and opposed to the influx of millions of illegal immigrants into this country to undercut wages - call them haters.
Lou Dobbs is nearly the only one who has the cajones to put these people on the air and talk about this issue and he is slammed with the hate label.
Ridiculous.
Did you watch a different video than I just did?
Dobbs was caught, as shown in full color, promoting material from a known hate group and the best excuse he can give is it that it was only on the screen a few seconds?
I can't believe he let her get through it all without cutting her off.
Dobbs was caught, as shown in full color, promoting material from a known hate group
Cleve,
He was not promoting a hate group. He just happen to use a MAP of the mythical Aztlan that was featured on their website. A map, NOT any of their hateful propaganda.
So are you saying that if bin Laden appears on a Islamic website that promotes hate towards the west using it on a broadcast means you agree with that website?
Now before someone jumps in & cries He could have tried to use a map of Aztlan from a different source, I'll ask, what frigin difference does it make? A map is a map.
Just like bin Laden being shown on a Muslim extremists website isn't any different than if it came off the more acceptable al jazeera. It's still bin Laden.
Anyway, Murguia is right Dobbs does use the rhetoric of demonization. His claims of leprosy being spread by immigrants is rooted in Madeleine Cosman's eliminationist diatribe she tried to pass off as science. This fact undermines his credibility in my view, I don't buy his innocent act.
I think Dobbs is doing great harm to the national discussion on immigration.
, National Council of La Raza president and CEO Janet Murguia accused host Lou Dobbs of using "hate groups to make your case on immigration
Well, isn't this just the pot trying to call the kettle black.
La Raza is one of the most vile, hateful, racist groups in existence in this country today. it's no wonder MMfA issupporting them.
Anyone care to translate to what their motto means in English?:
"Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada."
Typical Tommy not reading the article at all yet commenting on it anyway. Murguia accurately pointed out that Dobbs had used a graphic from the Council of Conservative Citizens, which is a hate group. His only defense was that he did it in 2006 and that it wasn't on air that long. Those are pretty lame excuses and dodged the point that he used info from a hate group to make a point. At no point did she call Dobbs a racist, hater or anything along those lines just pointed out that he was "co-branding" himself with them.
Dobbs also looks like a fool when he calls the ADL and SPLC "advocate groups for open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens" and states that this is not his opinion but fact. Bear in mind that even if it were the case they still point out bigotry quite accurately and his point is moot.
There are plenty of people who have reasonable views and fears regarding the current state of our immigration policies and the growing number of illegal and/or undocumented immigrants.
Too bad that they don't seem to have any problems cozying up with white supremacists and racists. That's why they get called names.
It's hard to tell with Dobbs because he's all over the map on this in terms of being reasonable, but he does frequently play host to real live racists who try to hide their beliefs and spread them under the cloak of economic, social and political concerns.
And I don't think that the side that calls anyone who wants to talk about this issue in reasonable, rational and achievable terms "part of the Open Borders and Amnesty crowd," gets to complain about being labelled unfairly.
Thank You thank you thank you!
Dobbs plays a kind of political correctness game. Any doubt about him and his message means you are for open borders, the destruction of the english language, illegals getting legal permission to commit crimes and western civilization basically falling apart...
For Dobbs the end justifies the means and we have seen this kind of champagn before. Think of the runup to the Iraq war. If you had any questions concerning the Bush program, you were obviously for giving terrorists who were capable of turning the USA into a Talaban run society nuclear weapons. Questioning the plan, questioning the information, questioning the assumptions could only mean you were on the side of the enemy. The truth could only get in the way.
I am not for an open border and I am not for closing it by any means necessary, including name calling, distortion, and misinformation. Lou Dobbs apparently is.
Dobbs us vs them, black and white approach might make for an entertaining evening of getting all riled up in self rightious victimhood, but it does not help inform citizens about the issue and how to find solutions.
Oh yea and this map of his. How many people are actively working on such a plan. Where is the evidence? It seems to me, US citizenship is what immigrants want. His map does help a lot of people play the poor little victim role. Oh poor weak vulnurable America. Largest military in the world and still they can take California and Texas right from under are nose. Boo hoo hoo.
You're welcome!
That's exactly right, it's binary thinking in action. If the minutemen oppose illegal immigration, and you oppose them, then you're for open borders. This is a pet peeve of mine. There are shades of gray for just about any political issue, but especially for illegal immigration.
Nice strawman argument as usual, Tommy.
And by the way, the word you're looking for is "cojones."
"Cajones" would be boxes.
"Cajones" would be boxes.
No es correcto. <Cajones> no significa <boxes> en ingles. A decir <boxes> es cajas.
Just to correct this common mistake. CAJONES in Spanish means drawers.. COJONES is what you want to use.
Oops, I forgot you have scroll down to see ALL the responses =)
That's not a legitimate gripe considering Dobbs utilized the exact same tactic of demonizing his opponent.
Furthermore, even if there were absolutely no border crossers working in the U.S. wages would still be stagnant. Low wages are the ultimate end result of the dogmatic pursuit of market fundamentalism. There is not one Mexican laborer who downsized or outsourced a good paying job. Not one undocumented laborer has rewritten law to allow corporations to bail on their pension contracts and none of them have busted up the unions that protect living wages.
And frankly, Tommy, that kind of blame the expoited is exactly the type of eliminationist rhetoric the CCC condones as a means to stir up animosity for illegal immigrants and distract attention from the economic injustice that is mowing down working people on both sides of the border.
Globalization has flooded Mexico with Chinese imports too. Nafta did nothing to protect our entire region from outsourcing and the like. Your right! This is about the game the big boys play, yet scapegoating the guy that cleans toilets must make for betting ratings. Its also easier to explain to people who think that shutting down that border is going to solve all our problems.
“Right. You got anything a little more recent?”
Déjà vu
History often has an expiration date that hinges on convenience.
A familiar tactic I’ve been confronted with in this forum.
OMG, here's another one...
DOBBS: You want to know how long it was on the air?
MURGUIA: It doesn't matter.
DOBBS: Seconds. You have just given them more airtime than this network, this broadcast ever did.
By taking people or organizations to task in a public forum for their words or actions, you're simply giving them more publicity, so you're best off to just shut up and be a good little conformist.
Does Dobbs read the MMFA comments for strategical knowledge?
My biggest gripe about that?
1) runup to war: don't question the government, they know what they are doing. If you do, you are a traitor.
2) during the war: don't question the government, now is not the right time. It will undermine the moral of the troops. If you do, you are a traitor.
3) after the war: don't question the government anymore. It's already been said and done, forget about it. Let it go. If you can't, you are a traitor.
I regret clicking on the link to the CCC's website; I lost some brain cells and a part of my soul. Oh, and Tommy's wrong.
Dobbs, referring to the ADL: "They are a joke!"
It's Dobbs who has become a joke. He's part of the lexicon now. When someone goes nuts on the immigration issue he's referred to as "going all Lou Dobbs on us". And what about CNN having Lou Dobbs as one of the anchors on election night. Just as bad as having Olbermann and Chris Matthews anchoring over at MSNBC. God knows what Fox did. Television news is rapidly descending to the level of talkradio.
it's obvious that ccc is a racist organization. but la raza does not exactly have the cleanest hands. they gave their 1994 chicano hero award to jose gutierrez, who in his youth advocated the "elimination of the gringo". by killing them if necessary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Angel_Gutierrez
From that same link:
There still remains some debate about the actual words Gutierrez used in his famous "kill the Gringo" speech of April 10 or 11, 1969 in San Antonio when he was head of the Mexican American Youth Organization (MAYO). In his speech which was mainly about Mexican American civil rights (these are U.S. citizens of Mexican ancestry) he said:
"We realize that the effects of cultural genocide takes many forms—some Mexicanos will become psychologically castrated, others will become demagogues and gringos as well and others will come together, resist and eliminate the gringo. We will be the latter.”
Questions followed the press statement, particularly from Kemper Diehl, a reporter with the San Antonio Express. Diehl wrote an article on the press conference and printed his version of an exchange:
Q: What do you mean by ‘eliminate the gringo?’
A: “You can eliminate an individual in various ways. You can certainly kill him but that is not our intent at this moment. You can remove the base of support that he operates from be it economic, political, social. That is what we intend to do.”
Kemper Diehl wrote more: “Gutierrez was again pressed as to intentions of killing gringos ‘if worst comes to worst.’ He replied ‘If worst comes to worst and we have to resort to that means, it would be self-defense.’ ” Gutierrez went on to be quoted as detailing attempts on his life and property just a few years before in Crystal City, Texas.
I don't know about anyone else here, but your attempt to paint this man as an equivelant seems disengenious at best.
you forgot this one from the wall street journal in 1970: "it's too late for the gringo to make amends. violence has got to come". and the late congressman henry gonzalez placed a statement in the congressional record in 1969, saying gutierrez views were an "espousal of hatred".
http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1994/4/94.04.05.x.html
OK, I've finished reading several of the links and while I can see your point about him being excoriated for his views, I am still of the impression that it is a questionable call. Many of the notes and references indicate that the hispanic populace didn't disagree with his reasons (it was about poverty, racism and lack of education in the hispanic districts) but were concerned about his combative ways of trying to achieve the goals.
I would not compare that to say the KKK, who just want to eradicate whole races because of race, religion or whatever else. I would be inclined to put it in the "concern" category because of the possible influence of violence that may result if his words get taken too literally.
I largely agree that the basis for his position is understandable, but the tactics he's advocating are unacceptable. And surely there are a lot of people who agree with or at least understand that basis.
However, I don't think the issue is whether he's comparable to the KKK or anyone else, I think it's that he got an award for his work. Surely there are any number of people who want better schools, etc, who can pursue that cause with less violent rhetoric who could have received that award instead. Emphatic expression of praise is not for people who make "questionable" comments.
DOBBS: Right. You got anything a little more recent?
So what, now, your excuse is you used to be a jackass but you aren't any more?
FIRST, deflecting this issue to some speaker somewhere who MIGHT have said inflammatory things against "gringos" ... is the expected DISTRACTION.
DOBBS has a national show. DOBBS is either behaving in an ethical journalistic way, or he is not.
DOBBS is, shall we say, PASSIONATE about the illegal immigration issue.
DOBBS chooses what material to put on his show to bolster his "opinion". The material he chooses, for some reason, comes from people who HATE, who have a record of intolerance, racism, and some violence. To support his views, DOBBS is giving legitimacy and allying himself with these people. Nobody else did it, DOBBS did this by his own choices.
And this woman says DOBBS should be held accountable for the associations he has formed.
DOBBS does not believe he SHOULD be held accountable, and dismisses organizations OTHER than the ones he chooses to associate with and promote ... he dismisses THEM as "jokes".
This may seem a winning "debate" style to some, but it is without substance, in that it does not address the issue. HE is the one with the national forum. HE is the one who must defend his sources. Attacking his attackers is not a proper defense.
He has either GUTS or ARROGANCE to put this woman on his show. She came VERY prepared, and had the substantial arguments and PROOF. He had only dismissal. DOBBS LOST THIS DEBATE. It would be GUTS if he presented a reasoned defense. He did NOT. So, it was ARROGANCE, his belief that he could easily dismiss these charges and demonize the woman and her sources. He FAILED.
The problem here also is the format of the show. Lou Dobbs is the host. He, as host, is presenting dubious scare mongering material from a racist organization. Comparing a guest on the show to the slant of the host should not be an issue. Shouldn’t we expect more from the host? If the show were not so slanted, the host would moderate between guests. Maybe the map makers could debate with La Raza. Any racism between the guests could be debated and exposed. Instead the personality driven “we got it all figured out for you” media presents a host who will do battle with any the guest that does not stay on message. A show trying to unravel the issue honestly would have a host who presents a variety of experts and opinion makers who debate the issue. Not the spectacle of seeing Lou go after ‘em.
So instead we always seem to get the media personality who has it all figured out. For some reason the networks seem more comfortable with this. Maybe its because an actual debate would be too sloppy, disturbing and extreme. It is far safer to have the same caste of media icons: your becks, limbauhs, BO’s, hannitys whose message is predictable and whose entertainment value comes from the righteous indignation the viewer feels when the host, with “it all figured out”, puts those misinformed (or worse) people in their place.
La Raza is a racist front group for illegal Hispanics. Any group that identifies itself by race or ethnicity is racist period. Another example is the black caucus in the US congress a racist group because they identify themselves by race. Any one or group that say we are working for or supporting people based on there race are racist groups period. La Raza is such a group. The test to determine if a group is a racist group is ask yourself if a specific race comes to mine when you hear that groups name. When you hear the name La Raza what do you think? Bingo it passed the racist test. We must all fight against groups that identify by race or ethnicity like La Raza a racist group.