AP reported administration claim that telecom companies acted "in good faith," but not contrary views
In a February 5 article about a letter Attorney General Michael Mukasey and National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell sent to Senate leaders concerning amendments to a proposed Senate bill updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA), the Associated Press uncritically reported Mukasey and McConnell's contention that "[p]rivate citizens who respond in good faith to a request for assistance by public officials should not be held liable for their actions." Mukasey and McConnell made that assertion in opposition to an amendment that would strip from the bill language granting telecommunications companies retroactive immunity to civil liability for their participation in the Bush administration's warrantless domestic wiretapping program. At no point did the article note the decision by a federal judge regarding the lawsuit, nor arguments congressional opponents of such immunity have made challenging the notion that the telecommunications companies acted in "good faith" or that their intentions were even relevant. Indeed, in one of the cases challenging the legality of a company's alleged cooperation with the wiretapping program, Hepting v. AT&T, Vaughn Walker, the federal district judge hearing the case, found, as part of his rejection of AT&T's claims of immunity, that, "based on the facts as alleged in [the] plaintiffs' complaint," AT&T "cannot seriously contend that a reasonable entity in its position could have believed" that it would be lawful for the company to cooperate with the government.
Similarly, in a December 17, 2007, floor statement opposing the grant of retroactive immunity, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) said:
FEINGOLD: So this is not about whether the companies had good intentions or acted in good faith; it is about whether they complied with this statutory immunity provision, which has applied for 30 years. If the companies follow that law, they should get immunity. If they did not follow that law, they should not get immunity. A court should make that decision, not Congress. It is that simple.
Walker's decision has been appealed and is now pending before the 9th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, which heard arguments on the appeal on August 15, 2007.
The February 5 AP article by Lara Jakes Jordan, headlined "Bush threatens veto in surveillance laws," in its entirety:
President Bush threatened a veto Tuesday in the debate to update terrorist surveillance laws, assailing Democratic plans to deny protection from lawsuits for telecommunications providers that let the government spy on U.S. residents after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The threat came in a 12-page letter to Senate leaders from Attorney General Michael Mukasey and National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell. It was issued as lawmakers prepare to vote on legislation seeking to update a 1978 surveillance law without violating privacy rights.
"If the president is sent a bill that does not provide the U.S. intelligence agencies the tools they need to protect the nation, the president will veto the bill," wrote Mukasey and McConnell.
The letter was sent to Senate leaders and the top Democrats and Republicans on the Senate Judiciary and Intelligence committees.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said the letter was premature since there still isn't any legislation yet.
"It's a little early to have a veto threat," he said.
The existing surveillance law will expire Feb. 15. Bush has said he would resist extending it again.
After nearly two months of legislative wrangling, Reid announced the Senate would begin voting on amendments Wednesday. Debate began Tuesday evening.
The administration's veto threat was aimed at amendments that would bar retroactive immunity to phone companies and other telecom providers that have given the government access to e-mails and phone calls linked to people in the United States. Without the retroactive protections, the letter noted, telecom providers might be unwilling to help the government track down terror suspects in the future as they were asked to do in the days following the 2001 attacks.
"Private citizens who respond in good faith to a request for assistance by public officials should not beheld liable for their actions," Mukasey and McConnell wrote.
A bill already approved by the Senate Intelligence Committee "is not perfect," Mukasey and McConnell wrote. But since it provides the legal shields, they said they would support it if the amendments are dropped.
The Senate could vote on the surveillance bill and amendments this week.
Some 40 civil lawsuits have been filed against telecommunications companies. They carry with them a threat of crippling financial penalties, which the White House says could bankrupt the companies.
Congress has struggled to strike a balance between catching terrorists and improperly spying on U.S. residents since last summer, when it sought to update the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. That law requires the government to get approval from a secret court when it seeks to electronically eavesdrop on suspected terrorists or spies in the United States. The law does not apply to government wiretaps on people outside the country.
Over the years, however, foreign communications have been routed through technology based in the United States -- raising the question of whether the government should have FISA court approval to listen in on those conversations. The bill being debated now seeks to resolve that issue.
Civil rights and privacy advocates say current law, which Congress approved in August in a hasty attempt to update the 1978 version, still allows the government to eavesdrop on Americans without court oversight. That law was set to expire Feb. 1 but was extended for two weeks as Congress works to hammer out a compromise.
The administration also rejected proposals to have the secret FISA court decide whether to give immunity to telecom firms, arguing that doing so could merely result in lengthy legal battles.
"It is for Congress, not the courts, to make the public policy decision whether to grant liability protection to telecommunication companies who are being sued simply because they are alleged to have assisted the government in the aftermath of the September 11th attacks," Mukasey and McConnell wrote.















Well, if the Bush Administration says that the telecom companies acted "in good faith" that's good enough for me. I'm sure we don't need to know all the pesky details. <heavy sarcasm>
Just out of curiosity, though, I'd like to know if Dick Cheney made any personal calls...
In other words they were acting on "good faith."
Good faith in these cases has nothing to do with rule of law but how this administration interprets the law.
I think I'd rather have an impartial party decide these matters.
Acting in good faith, a slightly upscale good intention.Can easily lead to identical places.
The number of citizens excluded from any information on Dick's telecommunications, (national security issue don'tcha know) is within spittin distence of 300 million.
They acted in good faith, in helping the administration to spy on Americans without a warrant. I don't care who it is that they're listening in on, if they're an American citizen, they are protected by our Bill of Rights, and our Constitution, which I seem to remember the President taking an oath to defend. Not the country, the Constitution, without which, we would cease to be a country.
Don't these telecoms have about 16 billion lawyers? Are you telling me that their lawyers told them that this was perfectly OK and legal? I'm willing to bet that a bunch of their lawyers told them no, don't do this. It's illegal. But Bush came knocking, and they opened their doors, and their files, and they let Bush and his buddies listen in on our conversations, our e-mails, and our communications with one another. I wonder how many phone calls were intercepted? I wonder how many were nothing, but were listened in on anyway? For those of you who would crow about "if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about, here is case in point that you should be worried. Every last one of us.
See Feingold's speech. This is why I wish that he had run for President.
Whether the telecoms should be held liable or not, to me, is not the first question or the first appropriate action to consider.
If the telecoms are liable, they cooperated with the commander in chief of the strongest military in the world. That commander in chief asked them to cooperate, told them it was OK if they did so, and is standing by saying "hey, they didn't do anything wrong. This isn't wrong."
That would be like us going after the driver of a mob hit man, with the hit man standing right there next to the police saying "Look, it wasn't wrong for me to kill that guy. This guy just helped me drive over there. They didn't do anything wrong." and having the police continue to try to charge the driver while ignoring the hit man.
Yeah. I'm sure there are a ton of people that can show real damage that was done to them because of the wiretapping, and I'm also sure that they'll get all the money.
(read: damages will be hard to prove and lawyers are driving this lawsuit)
Depending on the circumstances punitive damges may be recoverable. However, what is driving this secrecy is that Bush and Cheney do not want us to know exactly what they did. That, in my opinion, is the real issue. An example should be made of people who violate the civil rights of law abiding Americans.
MMFA calls it a warrantless domestic spying program. Isn't it that a deception designed to make it sound like something it isn't? Doesn't the program only monitor calls to and from foreign countries?
Has anyone yet claimed any harm has come from AT&T's helping the Government? Or is the complaint that this program has the potential for abuse? Maybe there are some, I just have not heard of any.
Would people here be less worried if Hillary or Obama were Prez or is that irrelevant?
The program is designed to monitor calls from "one party to the communication is a member of al Qaeda, affiliated with al Qaeda, or a member of an organization affiliated with al Qaeda, or working in support of al Qaeda." and one party lies outside the U.S. There are several problems with this, mostly 4th amendment issues. Basically, if the call being placed into the U.S. is a U.S. citizen, the Supreme Court held in Katz v. United States that that constitutes "search" and therefore, a warrant must be issued by a judge.
Also, any evidence gathered without a warrant may raise several 4th amendment issues in court, and therefore could be inadmissible.
Also, there's no way of knowing if they are abusing the privilege. The way they have set up the operations in the telecom companies, every single piece of data streaming into that company is also filtered through whatever computer banks and servers the NSA have set up in that secret room that no one's been allowed to go in. In fact, this very post is filtered through an NSA port, as is everything you do on the internet. Is someone watching? who knows.
The bottom line is that warrants are required (no exceptions), and were not sought. It's a crime, plain and simple.
"Has anyone yet claimed any harm has come from AT&T's helping the Government?"
Would you rather give the authority to monitor your communications to one branch of government simply on good faith that they will not abuse it?
Even if the NSA does manage to intercept incriminating communications and does bring an American to trial for treason, I would much rather not have the warrant loophole open for a defense lawyer to exploit.
Do we want to successfully prosecute those who conspire against the U.S. or let them get off scot free?
MMFA calls it a warrantless domestic spying program. Isn't it that a deception designed to make it sound like something it isn't? Doesn't the program only monitor calls to and from foreign countries?
They listened in on calls of Americans, and didn't obtain a warrant to do it. How is it deceptive to call it "warrantless domestic spying?" It's precisely what they did. Doesn't matter who they called to or were called by. If there was a reasonable suspicion by a law enforcement agency that a US citizen was communicating with a foreign terrorist, the call could have been immediately monitored and a warrant obtained after the fact. That's what FISA is all about.
Bush supposedly ended the program. If it wasn't problematic, why'd he end it?
Has anyone yet claimed any harm has come from AT&T's helping the Government? Or is the complaint that this program has the potential for abuse? Maybe there are some, I just have not heard of any.
Let's say the cops go into your home every day while you're at work and look around. No real reason to do it, and they don't have a warrant. But they do it anyway and never tell you. You'd be cool with that? You wouldn't feel violated by that? Do you think it's in any way constitutional?
Would people here be less worried if Hillary or Obama were Prez or is that irrelevant?
Which people? What do you think the response over at the Free Republic would be? It's a great way to look at it, though. Would YOU be comfortable if HRC or Obama was doing this to you? I suspect a lot of people on your side of the political fence would lose their minds over such an intrusion. I imagine many of the Libertarian minded conservatives are as upset about this Bush activity as anyone.
"Private citizens who respond in good faith to a request for assistance by public officials should not be held liable for their actions," Mukasey and McConnell wrote.
And right there, in one sentence, they correctly identified the whole problem with giving corporations all the rights of a private citizen. AT&T isn't actually a private citizen, it's a corporation. Corporations were just given the status of people so the entities would have legal standing to enter legal contracts. That has since morphed into corporations becoming super-citizens, the most equal of all, with no responsibilities except to other corporations. I hope DOCTORS come up with retroactive immunity pretty soon. That would be just as convenient as this one. They can just give you an injection, and you won't have been sick last week.
"They carry with them a threat of crippling financial penalties, which the White House says could bankrupt the companies."
The blood will be on Bush and Cheney's hands.
We can impeach a president for a bj but no for violating the constitutional rights of the entire country. God Bless America.
Bush and co have made numerous statements about how important it is that the revised FISA be passed or the terrists will get us. And yet he threatens to veto any bill that doesn't include immunity for past actions. Note, any revised FISA bill will cover the telcos going forward, this is all about the illegal actions taken by the administration in the past, not about any future actions. If anyone still had doubts in their mind over this administration's constant abuse of the threat of terrorism as a political cudgel, this should clear those ups.
BTW-I would hate this activity just as much if it were a Democratic administration behind it. Would you be so blaise about it if it were?
oh, my. who cares?
If you really care, let's shut the telephone companies down. Cut it off right now.
if you really, really, care let's make it illegal to go after terrorists at all. give them free rein.
you people are so stupid. when the coup comes, you will be at the top of the list. I would like to be there when they drag you out of your beds at night.
you people are so stupid. when the coup comes, you will be at the top of the list. I would like to be there when they drag you out of your beds at night.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
when the coup comes, you will be at the top of the list. I would like to be there when they drag you out of your beds at night.
I'm assuming that as a "history buff", you are well aware of how closely your statement mirrors the rabid (or brainwashed) supporters of dictatorial regimes throughout history, right? If you need clarification, just google nazi youth, or maybe you can ask the pope for clarification.
when the coup comes, you will be at the top of the list. I would like to be there when they drag you out of your beds at night.
Whoop whoop whoop!!! PSYCHO ALERT!! Threatening an entire group of people with death, very nice!
I've always wondered if the insane realize that they're insane?