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Wash. Post quoted Mudcat Saunders on Clinton's chances in VA without noting his stated opposition to her

February 07, 2008 6:20 pm ET
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SUMMARY: In an article on the upcoming Virginia primary, The Washington Post included a quote from former Edwards campaign strategist Mudcat Saunders, saying that Sen. Hillary Clinton "might encounter difficulty connecting with southwest Virginians, who have been hit hard by plant closings," because "many people there blame the North American Free Trade Agreement, signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1993." But the Post did not note that Saunders has said a Hillary Clinton presidency would violate the Constitution and that he has vowed "to do everything I can to make sure" John Edwards does not endorse Clinton.

29 Comments

In a February 7 Washington Post article on the upcoming February 12 Democratic primary in Virginia, staff writers Bill Turque and Anne E. Kornblut wrote that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) "might encounter difficulty connecting with southwest Virginians, who have been hit hard by plant closings, said Dave 'Mudcat' Saunders, a former strategist for John Edwards, who dropped out of the race. He said many people there blame the North American Free Trade Agreement, signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1993." While Turque and Kornblut noted that Saunders was a strategist for Edwards, they did not note that he has said a Hillary Clinton presidency would violate the Constitution and that he has vowed -- as reported by The Washington Post on January 31 -- "to do everything I can to make sure" Edwards does not endorse Clinton. According to the January 31 article, Saunders also said that if she is the nominee, "I think it could be devastating for the party."

During the noon ET hour of the January 30 edition of MSNBC Live, MSNBC chief Washington correspondent Norah O'Donnell asked Saunders who "it's more likely [Edwards] would endorse." After replying, "[Y]ou'd have to ask John that," Saunders stated, "being a Southerner, being a rural American who's been completely devastated by the trade policies of the Clintons ... I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that he does not endorse Hillary Clinton." When O'Donnell asked, "And why is that? That you're going to do everything in your power to make sure that John Edwards does not endorse Hillary Clinton?" Saunders replied: "I believe in the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution and I think that this thing is in violation of it."

While Turque and Kornblut reported that Saunders asserted that "southwest Virginians" "blame the North American Free Trade Agreement, signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1993" for plant closings, they did not note that Sen. Clinton had recently stated that NAFTA should be changed. During the December 13 Democratic debate in Iowa, Clinton was asked by moderator and Des Moines Register editor Carolyn Washburn whether "NAFTA [should] be scrapped or changed." Clinton responded that it "should be changed," noting that Edwards "has rightly pointed out" that people "have lost their jobs."

From Fox News' December 13 broadcast of the Des Moines Register Democratic presidential debate:

WASHBURN: And so a logical question -- Senator Clinton, I'd like you to ask -- to answer this: Should NAFTA be scrapped or changed?

CLINTON: Well, it should be changed. You know, I think it's important for us to look at the entire context here. You know, you have winners and losers from trade right here in Iowa, people who are gaining because we're exporting, and people who, John has rightly pointed out, have lost their jobs.

I want to be a president who focuses on smart, pro-American trade. I will review every trade agreement. I'm going to ask for revisions that I think will actually benefit our country, particularly our workers, our exporters. And I'm going to go to the international community and get the kind of enforceable agreements and standards on labor and environment that we have been seeking as Democrats. Because we need to make it clear to the rest of the world that we are an open society, we believe in trade, but we don't want to be the trade patsies of the world. We want to have an equivocal, balanced relationship, and that's what I will do as president -- and NAFTA will we part of that review, to try to reform and improve it.

From the February 7 Washington Post article:

Clinton, who has lent her campaign $5 million to underwrite the post-Super Tuesday push, will pursue older white professional women in Northern Virginia. Her strategists also see an opportunity in southwest Virginia, where unemployment and the lack of affordable health care are major issues. They see conditions in the region as similar to those in neighboring Tennessee, which Clinton won Tuesday, and in rural Missouri, where she also did well, though she narrowly lost the state to Obama.

She was endorsed this week by Democrats in Wise County in southwest Virginia, though the area's congressman, Rick Boucher, is supporting Obama.

"Whether she wins or loses, it is going to be close," said Reilly, the Warner confidante. "And even if she loses it by a couple of points, she is going to have a healthy share of delegates."

But Clinton might encounter difficulty connecting with southwest Virginians, who have been hit hard by plant closings, said Dave "Mudcat" Saunders, a former strategist for John Edwards, who dropped out of the race. He said many people there blame the North American Free Trade Agreement, signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1993.

Saunders said Obama will also have to work hard to introduce himself to that region, an uphill feat in what amounts to a five-day campaign.

Political strategists said it might be difficult for either Clinton or Obama to predict who will show up at the polls. Virginia hasn't had a contested Democratic primary for governor or U.S. senator in more than a decade. The last seriously competitive Democratic presidential primary was in 1988, when Jesse Jackson won with 45 percent of the vote.

From the noon ET hour of the January 30 edition of MSNBC Live:

O'DONNELL: Clearly, both Clinton and Obama are courting Edwards' endorsement. Mudcat, who do you think it's more likely he would endorse?

SAUNDERS: Well, you know, you'd have to ask John that. I got off the phone with him this morning and, heck, I talked to him longer than usual. I think, today, John's really interested in, you know, making sure that his staff is OK, because, you know, there's a lot of passionate people on this staff. But, you know, I can't speak for John. I can say this -- that, you know, that being a Southerner, being a rural American who's been completely devastated by the trade policies of the Clintons, my -- I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that he does not endorse Hillary Clinton.

O'DONNELL: And why is that? That you're going to do everything in your power to make sure that John Edwards does not endorse Hillary Clinton?

SAUNDERS: Well, because I believe in the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution and I think that this thing is in violation of it. And like I said --

O'DONNELL: You mean, having --

SAUNDERS: -- that when I'm driving -- traveling now up through North Georgia, passing towns and be going through South Carolina and turn over into the Appalachians and everything looks like, you know, Sherman went through it but didn't burn anything, you know, I think that there is accountability involved there. And you know, for Hillary Clinton to continue to talk about the unintended consequences of NAFTA -- they weren't unintended, they were unconsidered.

You know, we all heard about the giant sucking sound when they first started talking about this. And I just don't think the Clintons have been a friend, you know, of my people out in rural America. They're obviously, you know, we -- not going to come down here and campaign in the general election. And, you know, everybody has talked about, in all these historical bookends, that you have, you know, the first black and the first woman -- which I think is wonderful -- but, you know, we've progressed there as a nation. But, at the same time, I think John was about history as well, too, because what he was going to do was we were going to come down here and compete where Democrats haven't competed.

And, you know, we're mathematically challenged now as a party. There's no question about it. I mean, 34 percent of the electoral votes now come from the South; about 2020, there's going to be 40 percent. And you know, with John Kerry conceding 227 electoral votes before --

O'DONNELL: All right.

SAUNDERS: I'm sorry, go ahead.

O'DONNELL: Yeah, I apologize, Mudcat. Just want to mention that we are just minutes away from this announcement by John Edwards.

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    • Author by pete592 (February 07, 2008 6:32 pm ET)
         

      I don't know about this one. 

      What else do we need to know about Saunders in order for us to make up our minds about what he said?  His preference between Ginger and Mary Ann? 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by johnny_nyc8351 (February 07, 2008 6:48 pm ET)
           
        In light of the fact CNN suspended Begalia and Carville because they support HRC, the least MSNBC could do is put a disclaimer on the statements of the man who said " I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that he [Edwards] does not endorse Hillary Clinton."
        Report Abuse
      • Author by lostlogic (February 07, 2008 9:14 pm ET)
           
        Are you kidding me??  I think MMFA clearly pointed out what else we need to know...his stated opposition to her and obvious dislike.  His opinion on Clinton's chances and who blames her for what should be taken with a huge grain of salt due to his bias. 
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Dem02020 (February 07, 2008 6:50 pm ET)
         

       

      OK, so now we have the much-anticipated all-important opinion of "mudcat", on Sen. Clinton's popularity in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

      Duly noted.

       

      But what about "hound-dog", what does he think?

      And "puddin' head", what's his opinion?

      Has anyone consulted "alley-cat" on this matter?

      ..."junk-yard dog"?

      ..."snake-eye"?

      ..."bull-frog"?

       

      What's "piss-stain" pete's opinion on the presidential campaign? I can't rest until I know.

       

      Report Abuse
    • Author by roundhouse (February 07, 2008 8:53 pm ET)
         
      Gotta say big deal MMFA. I don't see a smear or misinformation. In fact, if Hillary or Barack, want the Edwards supporters vote they're going to have to address the affects of trade agreements.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by MoonbatYouBet (February 07, 2008 9:05 pm ET)
           
        No they aren't.  What are we going to do, vote for the Mav?  As much as I hate to say it, Nader taught us a lesson about not choosing wisely when offered the lesser of two evils.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (February 07, 2008 9:46 pm ET)
             

          No they aren't. What are we going to do, vote for the Mav? As much as I hate to say it, Nader taught us a lesson about not choosing wisely when offered the lesser of two evils.

          No the won’t vote for McCain but they can stay home and not vote and THAT is almost the same as voting for McCain.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (February 07, 2008 10:09 pm ET)
             
          Calm down. All I'm saying is the Edwards supporters are going to support one of 'em and if the candidates want to move chunks of the Edwards people to them, they're gonna need to address the issues the Edwards people care deeply about.

          And what do you mean by no they aren't? What part of my statement are you responding to with, no they aren't?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (February 07, 2008 10:18 pm ET)
               
            Oh. I understand now what you mean by no they aren't. They aren't gonna have to address the concerns of Edwards supporters, all they have to do is take them for granted because there are no alternatives.

            That's pretty cynical thinking. Please tell me I have it all wrong.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by MoonbatYouBet (February 08, 2008 1:00 pm ET)
                 
              Nope, pretty much nailed it.  Hillary has always been all about chasing the center for most of her political career despite what some unhinged types might want us to think about her being a rabid lefty.  Obama is fairly centrist seemingly, though some of that could be a function of his rookie status in the Senate.  I don't think either of them are consciously choosing to alienate the further left portions of the party, but they really aren't doing much to court it either.  They know they've got us because there still is no viable third party and making a pointless protest vote or not voting at all might lead to another disaster like 8 years of the worst president ever.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (February 08, 2008 2:05 pm ET)
                   
                You make good points.

                This appeal to the center at this moment in history, while I have contentions with the whole notion of a left- right continuum, is something I just can't get behind. It seems that the majority of Americans are in agreement with the Liberal and Progressive worldview. From national security to healthcare to taxes, the left have majority opinion on our side.

                Basically, I don't think that making appeals to conservatism, which is what it means to appeal to the center, does much to build the sustainability of the Democratic Party in the long-term. And I think that it gives too much credit to the failed ideology of conservatism itself, which in turn leaves the door open for Republicans to redefine themselves as something other than the party of big business. I know I'm not alone in this thinking. If Hillary wants my support, she needs to be less hawkish. If Obama wants my support he needs to be less concilliatory to conservative free market ideals.

                The first one between them to espouse an authentic and consistent values based liberal argument for their candidacy wins my support. Until they do, I will continue to criticize them openly and passionately. I will not be content with a Republican lite candidate. I will give the eventual nominee my full support (so stop invoking the ghost of Nader, or the protest vote if you please) I will not however, cease with the criticisms of any Democrat.

                Those are my perceptions wrong headed or misguided as they may be.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by MoonbatYouBet (February 08, 2008 4:51 pm ET)
                     

                  Heh, not invoking Nader or the protest vote on your part, more of an apology for being that guy in the past myself.  I think we agree that now is not the time to be insistent upon ideological purity at the cost of having any voice at all.  It's taken the Right about a decade and a half to get the center moved as far in their direction as they have, it's going to take a while to get it back where it belongs.

                  Shame Bloomberg isn't running, it would have been nice to watch him siphon off the Republican voters like mad.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by roundhouse (February 08, 2008 11:40 pm ET)
                       
                    Yep. I agree. We have a long road ahead. Baby steps?

                    Thanks for the chat, moonbat.
                    Report Abuse
      • Author by lostlogic (February 07, 2008 9:23 pm ET)
           
        The problem is they are using the words of an extremely bias individual without noting that bias so the reader can properly weigh his opinion and put it in perspective.  I don't get it, we have had a gazillian of these types of threads where someone who is in opposition to the democrats is used as a quotable source and that bias wasn't disclosed and everybody seems to chime in about how wrong it is and how these biases should be noted.  But apparently for some if it is the opposition to their chosen candidate they don't see the problem.  The question isn't if they need to address the trade issue (which I believe she has).  The question is why wasn't this person's bias noted in the piece.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (February 07, 2008 11:09 pm ET)
             
          "The problem is they are using the words of an extremely bias individual without noting that bias so the reader can properly weigh his opinion and put it in perspective."

          I understand that, but in context of the article, the Mudcat quote is not misinformation. Given her association with NAFTA and the loss of jobs in the south due to NAFTA, I see his remarks as relevant.

          "I don't get it, we have had a gazillian of these types of threads where someone who is in opposition to the democrats is used as a quotable source and that bias wasn't disclosed and everybody seems to chime in about how wrong it is and how these biases should be noted."

          True. That happens here but since you're responding to me I think you should know that kind of omission doesn't tweak me. I go after the flaws in the conservative worldview. So please do me the courtesy of sticking to what I have written, not what everyone else has written.

          "But apparently for some if it is the opposition to their chosen candidate they don't see the problem."

          The implication is that I support Obama. I support neither at this point, I barely favor Obama but I'm checking to see which one is the one for me. They're pretty similar on the issues and both have inherent leadership approaches that are well suited to the Presidency.

          "The question isn't if they need to address the trade issue (which I believe she has). The question is why wasn't this person's bias noted in the piece."

          Because his bias is not relevant? I mean in the article he's quoted in, he makes no endorsement, he makes no smear, he spreads no misinformation.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by lostlogic (February 08, 2008 1:16 pm ET)
               
            We disagree on the relevency I guess.  He makes a judgement about Hillary Clinton and I think his judgement is questionable...I mean come on what does it say about the guys judgement that he thinks her running for president violates the 22nd amendment.  He fails to note that Clinton has critisized NAFTA and said changes must be made.  He fails to note that her failure to connect obviously didn't materialize in neighboring states similarly effected by NAFTA based on her strong showing their among working class dems.  Clinton seems to have a strong base of the very people he claims she will have a problem connecting with so what factual basis is he using to make this declaration.  The article fails to note that his judgement is skewed and his claims of NAFTA being her fault and the working class will blame her may be the hopeful wishings of someone who has stated on the record she should not become president.  Sounds like he is someone who wants to put a negative idea out their into the public arena and see if he can get it to stick and have others start claiming the same as so often happens it is a tried and true political   tactic...if you saqy it, and get enough people to repeat it, it becomes true.  IMO
            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (February 08, 2008 2:56 pm ET)
                 
              We do disagree but let's take a quick time out before we get fixated on the tiny details to the extent that we miss the big picture. OK? So let me say, I really like reading your posts here and I really like the way you manage your responses in a considerate way. To your credit you haven't dismissed me as having some covert hatred of Hillary and I really appreciate that. Also know that I'm not above offering an apology when and if I'm shown to be wrong.

              The very stupid 22nd amendment comment aside, we agree there most definitely, we simply disagree on it's relevance to his quote in the article. However, I do believe he made a legitimate criticism of Hillary. The fact is he is an Edwards guy and that camp believes NAFTA needs more than a cosmetic makeover. It needs a total reconstruction founded on a people first approach. So I can see why Hillary's kind of nuanced view doesn't satisfy him. I'd be willing to bet he ain't too keen on Obama's support of the Peru free trade deal either.

              You say, "He fails to note that her failure to connect obviously didn't materialize in neighboring states similarly effected by NAFTA based on her strong showing their among working class dems."

              She won TN and NJ. She lost NC, DE and even AL and GA. Don't know about the rest of VA's neighbors yet. We'll see. But from the results of super Tuesday I'd have to say he gave reasonable assessment of the situation.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by lostlogic (February 07, 2008 9:06 pm ET)
         
      It has become an absolute joke at this point to have these people weigh in with their opinions.  I don't care what side of the aisle they are on or who they are opining about.  If they have such an obvious and apparently viseral bias as evidenced by his silly 22nd amendment comments then they shouldn't even be using him as a resource for this issue and at the very least if they do they should make his bias clearly known. It is obvious this man would be unable to give any sort of reasonable analysis on Hillary Clinton.  A violation of the 22nd amendemnt...Sheeesh!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mefirst (February 07, 2008 9:19 pm ET)
         
      all the constitution says is no person shall be elected more than twice.  it's up to the american people to decide if they want someone's spouse in office. 
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mefirst (February 08, 2008 7:19 am ET)
           
        just saw romney in a clip on the today show.  said he was withdrawing because he did not want to see hillary or obama win,  because that would be a "surrender to "terror".  i don't think either hillary or obama ignored bin ladin before 9-11, as bush said he was "not on point" about him, or who said he was not concerned about where he was a year after 9-11.   this is the kind of sleaze we can expect. 
        Report Abuse
    • Author by oscar the grouch (February 07, 2008 9:42 pm ET)
         
      But we were told in '92 that we were getting two for the price of one, she would be co-president. Does this count toward time served? Hmmm, I sense a probable law case filed by a probable idiot somewhere. Of course, BHO could very easily make this a moot point by winning the nomination. Using the above example, would HRC be eligible to serve as VP? Could be a good reason for her not even showing on the ticket in second spot as there are those that may test the law on this (friviously for sure.)
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mefirst (February 08, 2008 6:59 am ET)
           
        the only thing that matters is that the electoral votes were cast for bill clinton.  what someone says does not mean a thing legally in this case.  there is no legal basis for saying she cannot get the votes now.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by thomp.steve9098 (February 08, 2008 9:25 am ET)
         
      Anybody know why HC has not disclosed her tax returns? Investigative journalist, Matt Drudge, is reporting that Obama suggests that she do so, for reasons of candor.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by political_left-religious_right (February 08, 2008 10:19 am ET)
           

        Irrelevancy alert!

        But what do you expect from someone who calls Drudge an investigative journalist?

        Try harder, thomp.steve, your credibility is in the balance.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by thomp.steve9098 (February 08, 2008 10:27 am ET)
             
          Maybe "reliable journalist", Matt Drudge, would be more appropriate?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (February 08, 2008 11:03 am ET)
               
            That's a little more accurate. You can set your watch by his douchebagginess.And you can rely on him wearing that snappy fedora that screams "REPORTER" to the See 'n Say/ Visual aid-needing crowd.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by thomp.steve9098 (February 08, 2008 2:12 pm ET)
                 

              Respectable journalists don't wear fedoras.  All along I thought he wore a 'panama' style hat.

              Report Abuse

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