Fox's Shively falsely suggested Obama has been a Christian for only "two decades now"
SUMMARY: Fox News correspondent Caroline Shively asserted that "[Sen. Barack] Obama says 'Enough already. There's nothing wrong with being a Muslim, but I have been a Christian for two decades now.' " In fact, Obama has said that he has "always been a Christian," and has also repeatedly stated that he has never been a Muslim or ever practiced Islam.
During the March 3 edition of Fox News Live, correspondent Caroline Shively falsely asserted that "[Sen. Barack] Obama says 'Enough already. There's nothing wrong with being a Muslim, but I have been a Christian for two decades now. Enough.' " In fact, Obama has not said that he's "been a Christian for two decades now"; he has said, "I've always been a Christian," and has also repeatedly stated that he has never been a Muslim or ever practiced Islam.
Obama has said repeatedly that he is not a Muslim. For example:
- According to the Associated Press, on February 27, Obama told Jewish leaders in Cleveland, Ohio: "If anyone is still puzzled about the facts, in fact I have never been a Muslim."
- In a January 23 interview with Christianity Today, Obama stated:
OBAMA: I think it's really important for your readers to know that I have been a member of the same church for almost 20 years, and I have never practiced Islam. I am respectful of the religion, but it's not my own. One of the things that's very important in this day and age is that we don't use religion as a political tool and certainly that we don't lie about religion as a way to score political points. I just thought it was important to get that in there to dispel rumors that have been over the Internet. We've done so repeatedly, but obviously it's a political tactic of somebody to try to provide this misinformation.
- According to a December 22, 2007, post on MSNBC.com's First Read blog, during a campaign stop in Oskaloosa, Iowa, Obama was asked "to explain his Muslim heritage":
"My father was from Kenya," he said, "and a lot of people in his village were Muslim. He didn't practice Islam. Truth is he wasn't very religious. He met my mother. My mother was a Christian from Kansas, and they married and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. So, I've always been a Christian. The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country. But I've never practiced Islam."
- In a memo dated January 23, 2007, the Obama campaign addressed false rumors that Obama attended a madrassa during his childhood in Indonesia and explicitly stated that Obama "has never been a Muslim":
Senator Obama was raised in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother. Obama's stepfather worked for a U.S. oil company, and sent his stepson to two years of Catholic school, as well as two years of public school. As Obama described it, "Without the money to go to the international school that most expatriate children attended, I went to local Indonesian schools and ran the streets with the children of farmers, servants, tailors, and clerks." [The Audacity of Hope, p. 274]
To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa.
These malicious, irresponsible charges are precisely the kind of politics the American people have grown tired of, and that Senator Obama is trying to change by focusing on bringing people together to solve our common problems.
- An entry in the "Know the Facts" section of Obama's campaign website states: "Barack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim. Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."
From the 2 p.m. ET hour of the March 3 edition of Fox News Live:
GRETCHEN CARLSON (anchor): One thing I was wondering is, as a presidential candidate, you know, you're going to continue to get the same questions over and over and over again. Seems to me that Barack Obama didn't want to answer this anymore, he wanted to answer it once and be done with it.
SHIVELY: He says basically, "I'm tired of answering this one." This rumor has been dogging him for years, Gretchen. It's been on the Internet for many, many years. It keeps whipping up over and over again.
Remember Bill Cunningham, the conservative radio host, he used his full name, Barack Hussein Obama --
CARLSON: Yeah --
SHIVELY: Cunningham said there's nothing wrong with that, but many people connect that Hussein with Islam, so that helped whip it up a little bit. It is out there. Obama says, "Enough already. There's nothing wrong with being a Muslim, but I have been a Christian for two decades now. Enough."
CARLSON: Yeah, and I don't think that it helped the whole situation when that picture showed up last week -- this one right here. Two years ago he was over in Somalia, I believe, and he donned the traditional garb there.
I don't believe that he was "always" a Christian.
First, everyone is born an atheist. You don't know about gods and religion until someone tells you about them ... and you are old enough to comprehend.
Second, he's the son of an atheist and a Muslim, and then his stepdad was Muslim too. Unlikely that he knew anything about Christianity til well later.
I thought in his bio he said he found Jeezus when he started working with the Trinity Church people.
BTW, I'm tired of these hit pieces from Helga "goal post" Carlson.
Fox - That's totally false. He's never been a Christian, he's a Muslim (according to Clinton according to Tommy). The question I have is, if we want to seperate God from the State, and if we're tolerant of religious diversity, why does it matter what religion he is? I mean setting aside the petty efforts to paint Obama as something he is not... he should be free to practice whatever he chooses within the bounds of the law, and run for office and be elected on his own merits regardless of whether he's Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, whatever....
Of course, the reality is that we're not that tolerant, and there are a large number of americans who dislike Moslem's becauase they're Moslems. that's an indictment on us, not on Moslems. Although I was told earlier that my argument was 'ridiculous' and 'jumping off the deep end...' which explains why Fox is reviewwing Obama's faith....how?
You got it TOMJOAD!
And the good thing about going off the deep end is that you don’t have to worry about hitting your head on the bottom.:)
Obama has made his point. He's a really big Christian. He's a Christiany Christian. He's just about the most gosh darn Christiany Christian and anti-Muslimy candidate that ever lived.
Isn't this type of pronouncement supposed to be met with ridicule and scorn by the secular progressives (enlightened ones) among us?
(crickets)
do you really have a point?
do you really have a point?
Yes, he does. It's on top of his head. :-)
"Obama has made his point."
From what I've seen, it's only when he's been asked about it. This does not constitute a "pronouncement."
When he starts talking about changing our Constitution to meets God's standards, for example, that's when secular progressives will have a problem.
In my opinion, Obama already is mixing policy with religion. He made this quite obvious when he stated that his reason for believing in gay civil unions rests in his interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount. Clearly this is injecting religion into politics, but since the iconic Obama can do no wrong in the eyes of the brainwashed, this is not a big deal.
Conservatives + Christian beliefs = bad, cannot be allowed, kick them out of government.
Progressives + Christian beliefs = ignore it because he's for gay marriage and socialized health care, so who cares.
Get it?
You are a damned liar.
"If people find that controversial, then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith, more central than an obscure passage in Romans."
Obama was responding to a question posed to him by a Protestant minister, Leon Forte, who said, "Your campaign sets a quandary for most evangelical Christians because I believe that they believe in the social agenda that you have, but they have a problem in what the conservatives have laid out as the moral litmus tests as to who is worthy and who is not." (emphasis mine)
He was responding to a question about the morality of his social agenda. He didn't say his views rested on anything religious, it was just a way for evangelicals to be more comfortable with those views.
Context is just so inconvenient for you, isn't it?
"...I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith..."
His words make it pretty clear that in addition to recommending the passage to others, he bases his beliefs about gay unions on it.
He could have given a very similar answer without using religion by simply stating that everyone needs to be treated with the same respect and rights, instead he chose to inject religion into policy.
He was asked about religion, but he's supposed to keep religion out of his answer?
Note the phrase "If people find that controversial...". He explained his views without using anything Biblical, then explained how those views are consistent with Christianity. That doesn't suggest in the least that he's "basing" any policy on religious text.
If Obama had made this comment the way you portrayed it, I would criticize him for it. He didn't. I'm the last person to use the Bible to base my views on, but if I'm talking about how certain policies can be embraced by Christians I could easily make the same argument Obama did.
The criticisms of right-wingers come when they actually do mix policy and religion, like "freedom requires religion" or "America needs a Christian President" or "we need to amend the Constitution to God's law" (paraphrased). I don't care if they have a religious rationalization for their policies either, as long as they are able to justify them with secular arguments as well, and as long as they're not identifying their viewpoint with the only path into heaven.
Welcoming Christians into the Progressive fold doesn't mean yielding our principles on the seperation of church and state.
We should never yield the Enlightenment principles that guided our founding fathers as they drew up the blue prints of our great democracy.
Isn't this type of pronouncement supposed to be met with ridicule and scorn by the secular progressives (enlightened ones) among us?
(crickets)
What nonsense! No wonder there is no response. He never claimed that he was the most Christiany Christian or an anti-muslim candidiate. You just made that up.
By contrast Republicans actually compete for that title.
"Isn't this type of pronouncement supposed to be met with ridicule and scorn by the secular progressives (enlightened ones) among us?"
Not when:
A)someone has a name like "Barack Hussein Obama", as many repeatedly point out
B)people keep saying and suggesting that he's Muslim
C)he's running for President in a country where the vast majority of people aren't black or Muslim, and are probably looking to identify with who they vote for.
It seems to me like one of the major criticisms of Kerry was that he didn't respond to the SBVT attacks. But when Obama addresses all the lies about him in order to maximize his voter base, we're supposed to express ridicule and scorn for it. I don't think so.
I have the utmost respect for Senator Obama and his religious faith. What I find insufferable are the secularists that can't open their pieholes soon enough when the rightwing defends their religion, but keep it zipped when their own candidate defends his. Where are the "fairy tale" posts? The "trogladyte" references? You think that stuff is easy to read day after day?
Again, crickets.
Wassa matta brucie? Ya wanna cry foul but this was never an apples to apples argument, was it? Right wingers want to think they are besotten on all sides because of their faith and scream foul because Barack isn't given the same scrutiny, but the scrutiny is christianity vs christianity, isn't it? Barack never was a muslim, so what's your complaint? That they don't question his christianity as hard as they question the rights? Cause if I'm not mistaken, they are accusing him of not ever being a christian...
Oh, wait. I get it now. He's being accused of acting like a rightwinger, and no one on the left is questioning it. Hmmm, maybe because he's being all inclusive vs the right who only courts white people? Hmmm?
Snoopy, even if Obama were a Muslim it wouldn't bother me. That's not the kind of guy I am. I understand that Obama couldn't be elected President in 2008 if he really were a Muslim because that's where America is today, but it's not where I am today.
But hypocrisy and double standards do bother me, when either side engages in it. And there's plenty to go around, believe me.
Aw come on Snoop, can you imagine the hooting & hollering if a Republican candidate so much as mentioned he prays to Jesus every night & kept repeating over & over again that he was a Christian...you guys would be calling him a religious whacko!
Now having said that, I realize Obama is sort of forced to do just that because of those Muslim rumors still circulating.
I don't know if I'd use hypocrisy here, maybe I'd call it just a strange kind of turn of events ;-)
Hi Jeter.That profanity filter is going wacky again, I don't know what naughty words I'm using.I don't think Obama being constantly questioned and forced to re-state his beliefs is comparable to those who volunteer their beliefs at every opportunity.
And, yeah, Bruce, Christians do get mocked here. That makes them just like everybody else. Whattaya want, special treatment? ;0)
Aw come on Snoop, can you imagine the hooting & hollering if a Republican candidate so much as mentioned he prays to Jesus every night & kept repeating over & over again that he was a Christian...you guys would be calling him a religious whacko!
Jeter, I don't think it's the nightly praying to Jesus that causes problems, it's the rest of what they add like, gays are the devil and a threat to marriage therefore we must amend the constitution to state that marriage is between a man and a woman, save all the unborn babies but don't spend or raise my tax dollars taking care of children already born or if we had saved all the unborn children we wouldn't need illegal immigrants.
Rational thinking about religion is fine, it's the wacko nut jobs who support Israel cause the "rapture" is coming and they want to make sure there enough room for them or calling the the Catholic church 'The Great Whore,' the 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ' and a 'false cult system' or God caused Hurricane Katrina to wipe out New Orleans because it had a gay pride parade the week before and was filled with sexual sin or wacko Robertson saying Sharon's stroke was God's punishment for giving up Gaza. Those folks deserve ridiculing.
Exactly Pearlene – And this is not just some nutcase holding a sign and standing on the public square shouting his doom and gloom – it’s a pastor (though still a nutcase) of a church with a congregation of more than 19,000 active members and ministries that can be seen and heard weekly in 99 million homes. So it’s not so much just what he says that’s is the problem, it’s the seeds that his speech plants in the minds of countless millions. Nothing could be more devastating to a potentially fruitful crop than the spread of a wacky weed that takes over and strangles development of an otherwise healthy sprig.
Please don't deny that Christians are mocked by posters here on a regular basis.
The trogladytes and the knuckledraggers don't know any better. They believe the fairy tale, Jeeezzzzuss is coming. Amen.
I'll tell you what, Bruce. If a Republican's religion is lied about repeatedly, I will protest just as loud and say its just as unfair.
Its not irony, its proof that some on the right (not you) feel that his name makes him something other than what he professes to be. Look at my screen name, its Jewish, but I'm not. I would hope that my last statement would end any debate. But for some reason, Obama is not shown any of the same courtesy.
He has to repeat his religious philosophy because many of the right refuse to think that he is Christian. They are the ones that should have to explain themselves, not Obama.
Please don't deny that Christians are mocked by posters here on a regular basis.
Please don't deny that many of those so-called Christians (like PAt Robertson, Mike Huckabee, James Dobson, and the late Jerry Falwell and D. James Kennedy, who are both sweltering in hell right now) deserve to be mocked.
"Please don't deny that Christians are mocked by posters here on a regular basis."
True, but isn't that usually in the context of Christians attempting to impose their religious beliefs into politics and governement? In case you haven't noticed, Christians have a tendency to do that...
People who claim they are christian when facts prove otherwise are who I mock, not true christians. I feel sorry for some true christians who are too trusting to realize they are being lied to and then go repeat the lie like it's a fact. They may get mocked too if their mistaken belief crosses the line by calling me a liar.
Breaking news - melanie morgan was fired from her radio spot!
Melanie Morgan fired? Do you think it was something she said...? Or was she caught in a card counting operation? ;>)
One small victory is a long, arduous war. :-)
Some other idiot radio exec will give her another chance, though.
As for Obama's reference to the "Sermon on the Mount" to justify same sex unions, I think he's made an unfortunate blunder. The Troglodytes are frothing at the mouth over this. He had the audacity to refer to a passage in "Romans" as "obscure". Well, the ignoramous Bible Thumpers are calling the talk shows and assuring each other that EVERY word in the Bible was personally written by GOD! How dare this man imply that the words of Jesus might carry more weight than the words of a religious fanatic named Paul (who never met Jesus, by the way)? While I think he's got a point, he just handed the Knuckledraggers the emotional non-issue they need to get their sheeple to the polls.
How's that?
I actually laughed at that one, Nerzog. Well done.
You have nothing to worry about in November. Conservative America is a myth. Or so I've been told.
It may not be where you are and if what you say is true, I think you have a home with progressivism. But what your statement reveals is the fundamental flaw in conservative assumptions more than anything else. It's the fault of conservatism itself for rejecting the uniquely American pilosophy of inclusion while forcing upon the population their vision of an intolerant conservative christianity.
Make no mistake about it, the folly mocked here is not Christianity itself, it is the hypocricy of those who implement Christian values as leverage in a sales job for the conservative worldview.
"What I find insufferable are the secularists that can't open their pieholes soon enough when the rightwing defends their religion,"
When the rightwing defends their religion? Or proposes making it or its tenets into an institution of the state?
I do see posters responding to hatred from so called religious people who target anyone who follows Christ's teachings about turning the other cheek, forgiveness and helping the poor, as being a "secularist".
Religious fundamentalists have tried to hijack Islam as well as Christianity. It's those people who we deride, not those who live what they preach.
"It's those people who we deride, not those who live what they preach."
"Those people" also includes those who preach what they do not live by.
(bad boy, naughty boy)
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Nuff said
This Muslim meme being directed at Obama is this election's Al Gore claims he invented the internet and John Kerry led about being wounded in Viet Nam. It is what the pugs ALWAYS do at election time... find the lowest and most bigoted and fear producing lie that they can, and then bleat it over and over until the more intellectually challenged members of the electorate accept it as gospel.
THIS IS WHY ORGANIZATIONS LIKE MEDIA MATTERS ARE IMPORTANT... TO DEBUNK THIS SORT OF CHEAP AND DISHONEST PROPAGANDA AS SOON AS IT IS FED INTO THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA!
Get used to it. Its going to get a lot uglier and a lot more dishonest from here on, folks. The Muslim thing is going to pop up over and over until after November... distracting and confusing many voters... and will be delivered with a calm smugness by the right-leaning MSM.
Our work is certainly going to be cut out for us,
Shively has only had her head up her butt for........................
Half-Century. She started pre-womb!
Truly, another Ailes/Rove sock puppet. Why don't they save some money and just use avatars? Why the dependence on live humans when it would be less costly to use avatars or audio animontronics like the old Disney hall of presidents?
After Japan bombed Pearl Harbor during WWII, the good ole U.S.of A. responded by sending many Japanese Americans to "camps". Look it up those of you who deny this. Innocent Americans were persecuted because of race, not philosophy or having done anything wrong, but their ethnicity was enough to justify placing them in "camps" There are many muslims around the world who do not approve of suicide bombers or many of the things taking place in the Middle East yet Americans everyday are persecuting an entire religion by making it an issue whether Obama is Christian or Muslim, as if the latter will lose him the election (which we all know it would). This sad state of politics must stop. The Constitution does not prohibit women, people of color or differing religions from holding public office. In fact it states the exact opposite. This bobble head says he's only been Christian for two decades, my response is so what. What if he didn't believe in anything, would that take away from his ability to govern and lead? Yes I personally would like our president to be Christian, but I am not prepared to support these divisive tactics by many on the right and left which hurt our great nation.
Seeing as how the Constitution bars any religious test for public office, it's pretty much irrelevant how long Obama has been a Christian, or whether he's a Christian at all.
Of course, since none of the newsmodels at Fox Noise have probably even read the Constitution, how could we expect them to know that?
Here is an interesting piece of real info on Obama:
Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM
from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHIEST from Wichita, Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His
mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indo nesia. When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocate to Indonesia. Obama
attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school.
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school."
Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that that he is not a radical.
Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct
influence over his son's education.
Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta.
Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major
public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim
background.
ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran.
Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegience nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches.
Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy.
The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!!
Come out and say what you believe. You think Obama is a terrorist, don't you? You disgust me, pig. Your Republican capacity for lying knows no bounds and is yet another example of how utterly untrusting and untrustworthy repubs like you are. Before you whine about refuting facts, you should know you have only shown facts that are already a matter of public record. Your assumptions based on Obama's history is pure afraid of the dark paranoia. Like most every Republican, you are truly a coward
Yours is exactly the kind of permissive means justify the ends thinking that has led the Republican Party to the puddle of rot it is today.
Also, why don't you cite the origin of your post? I doubt you could string that many words together at one sitting without freezing from the fear.
Terri,
"ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran."
Lie.
"Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegience nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches. "
Lie.
"The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!!"
Lie (or do you think "the Muslims" are a monolithic block of people united behind a single goal?). Out of curiosity, you do realize "the Muslims" don't even have an organized system of clergy?
sc_parker ,
"How do we know with absolute certainty Obama is not a Muslim?"
Not that facts are going to sway you anyway but how would it matter in the first place, are we fighting a war on terror or a a war on Muslims?
"His minister is best friends with Louis Farrakhan."
Lie.
"He attended a madrassah in Indonesia."
Spin. He attended a public school in a Muslim nation. About the same as having attended Catholic school while living in Italy.
"And....there is the issue of his middle name. Can we really take the chance?"
Ooooooh, scary. Probably several hundred million people have that as their name (Hussein being the Islamic equivilant of "Smith").