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In Wash. Post essay, Charlotte Allen's purported "evidence" that women are the "dumber sex" doesn't hold up

March 07, 2008 9:43 pm ET

SUMMARY: In an essay that appeared in The Washington Post's Sunday Outlook section, Charlotte Allen claimed or suggested that women are the "weaker sex," the "stupid sex," the "dumber sex," and "inferior[]." To make her argument, Allen offered contradictions, factual inaccuracies, faulty logic, and "evidence" that does not, in fact, support the notion that women are "dumber."

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Throughout her March 2 essay, which ran on the front page of The Washington Post's Sunday Outlook section, Independent Women's Forum contributor Charlotte Allen suggested or directly stated that women are the "weaker sex," the "stupid sex," the "dumber sex," and "inferior[]." Allen wrote: "I am perfectly willing to admit that I myself am a classic case of female mental deficiencies." But her purported "evidence" does not, in fact, support the notion that women are "dumber." Allen asserted that "several of the supposed misogynist myths about female inferiority have been proven true." However, the only myths for which she purported to provide evidence are the ideas that women are "worse drivers than men" and that "women are the dumber sex." Moreover, Allen's essay was rife with contradictions, factual inaccuracies, and faulty logic, undermining her conclusion that "way down deep, [women in general] are ... kind of dim."

Allen began her essay with a reference to an Agence France-Presse article that reported that, at a rally for Sen. Barack Obama, "[Obama] did not flinch when women screamed as he was in mid-sentence and even broke off once to answer a female's cry of 'I love you, Obama!' with a reassuring 'I love you back.' " Allen wrote, "Women screamed?" and later added:

I can't help it, but reading about such episodes of screaming, gushing and swooning makes me wonder whether women -- I should say, "we women," of course -- aren't the weaker sex after all. Or even the stupid sex, our brains permanently occluded by random emotions, psychosomatic flailings and distraction by the superficial. Women "are only children of a larger growth," wrote the 18th-century Earl of Chesterfield. Could he have been right?

According to the Politico, the Post's Outlook editor, John Pomfret, said that Allen's essay was intended to be "tongue-in-cheek" but admitted, "It's not the first time in opinion journalism that something has fallen flat." In a March 5 washingtonpost.com chat about the essay, Allen said, "I'm not sure whether I'd characterize the piece as satire, but I'd certainly characterize it as humor: my poking fun at the dumb things my sex does." Also, in his March 3 washingtonpost.com "Media Backtalk" discussion, media critic Howard Kurtz said of Allen's essay, "It was in yesterday's Outlook section, and was opinion. Not my opinion, but the writer's opinion." Kurtz, however, ignored the contradictions and factual errors in Allen's essay.

"[W]omen were falling for [Obama] literally"

Referring to the Agence France-Presse article, Allen wrote:

"Women 'Falling for Obama,' " the story's headline read. Elsewhere around the country, women were falling for the presidential candidate literally. Connecticut radio talk show host Jim Vicevich has counted five separate instances in which women fainted at Obama rallies since last September. And I thought such fainting was supposed to be a relic of the sexist past, when patriarchs forced their wives and daughters to lace themselves into corsets that cut off their oxygen.

But commentators have noted that fainting is a common occurrence at campaign events and that conditions at political events cause physical discomfort. On the February 18 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, former senior White House adviser Karl Rove told Bill O'Reilly that he has "been to a lot of presidential rallies" and that "[i]n almost every rally, somebody faints." People have reportedly fainted at events for Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and John McCain as well. A photographer familiar with political events said, "There are always people that faint. ... When somebody has to stand at one spot, at a view up front of their candidate, and they wait hours upon hours with no water, no food, it's expected and understandable." During the washingtonpost.com chat, a reader wrote: "People faint at huge rallies all the time. Usually it's attributed to heat, fatigue, etc. You are the one who make this important by assuming it's not heat exhaustion but 'mass hysteria [emphasis in original].' " Allen responded: "Heat exhaustion? One of the faints occurred in Maryland in February."

Clinton "has wept on the campaign trail"

Referring to Clinton, Allen wrote, "She has wept on the campaign trail, even though everyone knows that tears are the last refuge of losers." However, Allen cited no incident of Clinton weeping during the Democratic primary campaign. There have been two widely publicized incidents in which Clinton became emotional, but none in which she "wept." At a January 7 campaign event in Portsmouth, N.H., Clinton's voice broke as she talked about why she is seeking the presidency. During a February 4 event in New Haven, Connecticut, as she visited the Yale Child Study Center, where she had worked during law school, Clinton said, "I said I would not tear up."

Clinton is not in fact the only candidate to have shown emotion on the 2008 presidential campaign trail. A December 16, 2007, Politico article, headlined "Mitt wept when church ended discrimination," reported: "Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said on NBC's 'Meet the Press' today that he wept with relief when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Mormon church, announced a 1978 revelation that the priesthood would no longer be denied to persons of African descent. Romney's eyes appeared to fill with tears as he discussed the emotional subject during a high-stakes appearance." Further, a February 17 Associated Press article reported, "Mitt Romney's eyes filled with tears today as the Republican presidential contender recalled watching the casket of a soldier killed in Iraq return to the United States and imagined if it were one of his five sons."

"Clinton's nearly all-female staff"

Allen wrote, "Then there's Clinton's nearly all-female staff, chosen for loyalty rather than, say, brains or political savvy." In fact, Clinton's staff is not "nearly all-female." According to an October 24, 2007, comparison of presidential campaign staffs on The Huffington Post, the Clinton campaign was described as "balanced, but favor[ing] women." The website reported that of the "Top 20 paid staff" in Clinton's campaign, 12 were women, and of the 14 "senior staff," eight were women.

"[N]o man watches 'Grey's Anatomy' unless his girlfriend forces him to"

Allen wrote, "I swear no man watches [ABC's] 'Grey's Anatomy' unless his girlfriend forces him to." However, upon the show's premiere in 2005, New York Times reporter Kate Aurthur wrote, "When you parse its ratings, 'Grey's Anatomy' underscores one of the real lessons of the current season, a month before the fall schedule is set: men will watch shows with a female lead." Additionally, MSNBC contributor Brian Bellmont reported last year that "more than 6.4 million men tune in each week" to watch Grey's Anatomy.

"No man contracts nebulous diseases ... such as Morgellons"

Allen wrote: "No man contracts nebulous diseases whose existence is disputed by many if not all doctors, such as Morgellons (where you feel bugs crawling around under your skin). At least no man I know." In fact, The Washington Post Magazine reported that men, as well as women, have registered with the Morgellons Research Foundation. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently stated: "The suffering that many people associate with this condition is best addressed by a careful, objective scientific analysis. Considering the complexity of this condition, we believe that a measured and thorough approach offers the best chance for finding useful answers. To learn more about this condition, CDC is conducting an epidemiologic investigation."

"Women really are worse drivers than men"

Allen wrote:

Depressing as it is, several of the supposed misogynist myths about female inferiority have been proven true. Women really are worse drivers than men, for example. A study published in 1998 by the Johns Hopkins schools of medicine and public health revealed that women clocked 5.7 auto accidents per million miles driven, in contrast to men's 5.1, even though men drive about 74 percent more miles a year than women. The only good news was that women tended to take fewer driving risks than men, so their crashes were only a third as likely to be fatal.

Allen cited a 1998 Johns Hopkins study to support her assertion that women "really are worse drivers than men." But the study does not say that. It does not draw conclusions about members of which gender are better drivers on average. Allen used the study's findings to reach a conclusion -- not articulated in the study itself -- that having more but less-serious accidents indicates women are worse drivers than men, who are three times as likely as women to be involved in fatal crashes. (According to the study, crashes involving men were nearly twice as likely to be fatal as crashes involving women.) Moreover, she cited the statistic that men drive 74 percent more miles a year than women, as though it reinforces her own baseless conclusion about the relative driving ability of women and men. It does not. The statistics provided -- 5.7 auto accidents for women and 5.1 for men -- control for the difference in the number of miles men and women drive. During the March 5 Washington Post chat about her essay, Allen was asked about the fact that the study found that women's accidents are less likely to be fatal:

Appleton, Wis.: Could you please explain in greater depth your argument that women are worse drivers than men (because they get in more accidents), if their accidents are less likely to be fatal? Dying seems to be a better sign of a bad driver than a dented fender ...

Charlotte Allen: Hard to say: Both, unless not the driver's fault, are signs of bad driving. I don't see how getting into lots of little accidents makes a group better drivers than getting into fewer but worse accidents.

Allen also wrote in her essay:

Those statistics were reinforced by a study released by the University of London in January showing that women and gay men perform more poorly than heterosexual men at tasks involving navigation and spatial awareness, both crucial to good driving.

In fact, the University of East London study, titled "Sexual Orientation-Related Differences in Allocentric Spatial Memory Tasks" and published in the January 2008 edition of the journal Hippocampus, did not address driving ability. Participants in the study, using computers, had to navigate out of a "virtual pool." According to the study, "In brief, participants were simply instructed that they would find themselves in a virtual pool which they had to escape from as quickly as possible by swimming (using keyboard arrow keys) to a hidden platform using extra-pool cues (icons) for guidance." A second task "required participants to traverse 8 'arms' extending from a circular junction, four of which contained rewards and four which did not" and "to retrieve all four rewards as quickly as possible by 'walking' up the arms." Notably, the report (registration and purchase required) cited research finding that "[m]ales outperform females, on average, on tests of place learning and navigation whereas females outperform males, on average, on tests of spatial location memory where object-to-place binding is salient." The report further found that "heterosexual males started faster on both tasks and maintained this advantage throughout the learning trials. ... Importantly, in both tasks we found group differences in terms of latency but none in terms of distances traveled. This also suggests that heterosexual man may be equally efficient to the other groups in the navigation but simply travel faster through both tasks (that is, sexual orientation may affect swim speed to find the hidden target but not necessarily what spatial knowledge is acquired)."

Thus, Allen's evidence that women are worse drivers than men amounts to a study that does not judge whether women are worse drivers and a study designed to examine the relationship between spatial learning and sexual orientation that found that heterosexual men outperform women in one aspect and acknowledged past research finding that women outperform men in another.

"The theory that women are the dumber sex ... is amply supported by neurological and standardized-testing evidence"

Allen wrote:

The theory that women are the dumber sex -- or at least the sex that gets into more car accidents -- is amply supported by neurological and standardized-testing evidence. Men's and women's brains not only look different, but men's brains are bigger than women's (even adjusting for men's generally bigger body size). The important difference is in the parietal cortex, which is associated with space perception. Visuospatial skills, the capacity to rotate three-dimensional objects in the mind, at which men tend to excel over women, are in turn related to a capacity for abstract thinking and reasoning, the grounding for mathematics, science and philosophy. While the two sexes seem to have the same IQ on average (although even here, at least one recent study gives males a slight edge), there are proportionally more men than women at the extremes of very, very smart and very, very stupid.

The myth that "women are the dumber sex" is not, in fact, "amply supported by neurological and standardized-testing evidence." Even if men have bigger brains relative to body size than women (and some say that there is a difference unaccounted for by body height, while Discover magazine said in 1993 that "[d]ividing brain size by body weight often leaves women with a higher ratio (larger brain per body weight)"), according to National Institutes of Health Director Elias A. Zerhouni, "Studies of brains have taught us that people with higher IQs do not have larger brains." In other words, even if men have bigger brains, brain size does not correlate with intelligence. Zerhouni said that differences in intelligence "may be in the way the brain develops." Indeed, in research on brain development published in the March 2006 journal Nature, NIH researchers reported that "intelligence is related to dynamic properties of cortical maturation." The researchers further reported -- contrary to Allen's argument that "women are the dumber sex" -- that "[t]he intelligence groups did not differ significantly in handedness or gender composition."

Allen further asserted, "While the two sexes seem to have the same IQ on average (although even here, at least one recent study gives males a slight edge), there are proportionally more men than women at the extremes of very, very smart and very, very stupid." Assuming that her claim about variance is correct, it does not in any way support her overall premise that "women are the dumber sex." Moreover, while Allen did not cite the recent study that purportedly "gives males a slight edge" in IQ, a November 2005 Nature article critical of one such study noted "a consensus of more than 50 years' standing, that the only sex difference in IQ is a possible slightly greater variance among males."

The "number of women" employed as "tax accountants" "will always lag behind the number of men"

Allen wrote:

I am perfectly willing to admit that I myself am a classic case of female mental deficiencies. I can't add 2 and 2 (well, I can, but then what?). I don't even know how many pairs of shoes I own. I have coasted through life and academia on the basis of an excellent memory and superior verbal skills, two areas where, researchers agree, women consistently outpace men. (An evolutionary just-so story explains this facility of ours: Back in hunter-gatherer days, men were the hunters and needed to calculate spear trajectories, while women were the gatherers and needed to remember where the berries were.) I don't mind recognizing and accepting that the women in history I admire most -- Sappho, Hildegard of Bingen, Elizabeth I, George Eliot, Margaret Thatcher -- were brilliant outliers.

The same goes for female fighter pilots, architects, tax accountants, chemical engineers, Supreme Court justices and brain surgeons. Yes, they can do their jobs and do them well, and I don't think anyone should put obstacles in their paths. I predict that over the long run, however, even with all the special mentoring and role-modeling the 21st century can provide, the number of women in these fields will always lag behind the number of men, for good reason.

In fact, according to 2006 data published in the Census Bureau's Statistical Abstract of the United States: 2008, a greater percentage of women than men are employed in "Business and financial operations occupations" and as "Accountants and auditors," "Budget analysts," "Tax examiners, collectors, and revenue agents," and "Tax preparers."

OCCUPATION

Total Employed
(1,000)

Female (%)

Business and financial operations occupations

5,983

55.0

Wholesale and retail buyers, except farm products

222

55.8

Purchasing agents, except wholesale, retail, and farm products

290

51.1

Claims adjusters, appraisers, examiners, and investigators

283

58.2

Compliance officers, except agriculture, construction, health and safety, and transportation

149

54.0

Cost estimators

114

12.7

Human resources, training, and labor relations specialists

765

71.5

Management analysts

572

42.2

Accountants and auditors

1,779

60.2

Appraisers and assessors of real estate

134

35.7

Budget analysts

52

55.7

Financial analysts

103

38.4

Personal financial advisors

389

34.4

Insurance underwriters

92

69.2

Loan counselors and officers

468

52.7

Tax examiners, collectors, and revenue agents

67

56.7

Tax preparers

98

59.6


Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by wolf kotenberg (March 07, 2008 10:43 pm ET)
         
      Miss Allen must be the evidence >
      Report Abuse
      • Author by juliajayne (March 07, 2008 11:31 pm ET)
           
        I guess she's "not that bright" just like Ann Coulter. But of course her rant against WVD (women voting Democrat) is satire that fell flat. Ha!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by mcafla (March 08, 2008 6:12 am ET)
         

      Allen is a member of the right wing women's group, Independent Women's Forum,  funded by Mellon Scaife as a backlash against feminism.  IW advocates that woman should be at home behaving  like Stepford Wives.  Now, she gives us evidence? to support that essentially that's all they are good for anyway. Knowing the IWF, I do not accept that this was tongue in cheek.

      What is the WP doing publishing this garbage?

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by MickD (March 08, 2008 8:14 am ET)
           
        "Opinionators" like Ms. Allen, who does the bidding of the right wing based on getting paid, is an ultimate Judas to her gender. Her writings endeavor to prop up a party who proves time and time again that they are anti-women. Enjoy your 30 pieces of silver Charlotte, for maximum use of the coin based on the source of it, I suggest you buy a Hummer.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by tex (March 08, 2008 6:19 am ET)
         

      The Rightwing is about Sexists, Racists, and Luddites.

      "The Bell Curve" proported to be "scientific" evidence of the inferiority of Blacks. Global Warming is denied by isolated Rightwing "experts" like Dixie Lee Ray, using the same propaganda techniques as Holocaust deniers. And now comes Allen, supposedly coming to a "scientific" and "well researched" opinion that women ... particularly those who might vote for Democrats ... are stupid, weak, and dim.

      These people, these rightwing propagandists, are EVIL. They use LIES to disparage, insult, and belittle people, groups, and ideas, for a purely partisan political purpose (for a goal of POWER). They foment hatred and distrust, which is the traditional role of Satan (according to scripture, the "Great Deceiver").

      It's not just that these people are WRONG, it's that they are MALICIOUS, and wish for HARM to befall their fellow man. This is not only UnAmerican, it's INHUMAN. It's EVIL. They are Rightwingers, and IF they are believed (followed or given POWER), lead to a much worse world, a divisive and ignorant world of fear, paranoia, and scapegoating.

      Throughout history, it is people like these EVIL Rightwingers who have led mobs, to burn "witches" at the stake, to crucify Jesus, to lynch blacks across the South, to exact a "final solution" against Jews. It's not just WORDS ... it is a mentality; it is identifying a CHOSEN and WORTHY group ... THEMSELVES ... and the targeting of others for derision and destruction.

      This is the ultimate POLITICS of the RIGHT.

      This is my prayer; In this election year, may the American People see clearly the root motivations of the rightwing, the hate and destruction the rightwing desires and causes ... AND REJECT IT OUTRIGHT.

      Sexists, Racists, and Luddites, the Rightwing seek POWER, and in America they gain it through Republicans. Too severe? Examine the Bush Administration, examine who has been targeted for favor and fortune, and who has been targeted for death, destruction, and suffering. Look at who have been HARMED by domestic policy. Look at how America has been HARMED by foreign policy.

      In each and every instance, "the chosen" (notably, CEO's) have prospered, while the rest of us have seen our fortunes nosedive (in a thousand ways ... health care availability, debt burden, housing market, gas at the pump, heating oil, jobs, environment, workplace safety, YOU NAME IT, Bush has made life WORSE for the American People).

      Their reign of EVIL has to END. Do not be fooled by the deceivers. 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by notanotherconservative2254 (March 08, 2008 9:36 pm ET)
           
        Tex:

        The Rightwing is about Sexists, Racists, and Luddites.

        "The Bell Curve" proported to be "scientific" evidence of the inferiority of Blacks.


        --------------------------------------------------------------

        From wikipedia:

        The Bell Curve is a controversial, best-selling 1994 book by the late Harvard professor Richard J. Herrnstein and American Enterprise Institute political scientist Charles Murray. Its central point is that intelligence is a better predictor of many factors including financial income, job performance, unwed pregnancy, and crime than parents' socioeconomic status or education level. Also, the book argued that those with high intelligence (the "cognitive elite") are becoming separated from the general population of those with average and below-average intelligence, and that this was a dangerous social trend. Much of the controversy concerned Chapters 13 and 14, in which the authors wrote about the enduring racial differences in intelligence and discuss implications of those differences. The authors were reported throughout the popular press as arguing that these IQ differences are genetic, although they state no position on the issue in the book, and write in the introduction to Chapter 13 that "The debate about whether and how much genes and environment have to do with ethnic differences remains unresolved."

        -------------------------------------------------------------

        I wish people would actually read and try to understand things before posting a lot of crappola like tex.  The rest of his post is not any better.


        Go Obama!!!  The MAN in the race wins again!!







        Report Abuse
        • Author by franky (March 09, 2008 1:05 am ET)
             

          I think The Bell Curve authors were saying that Blacks are inferior.   In this article, (third to last paragraph) the book’s author, three years after it was written, states:

          The intractability of IQ? Dick and I said that IQ was 40 to 80 per cent heritable. The identical-twin studies continue to suggest that the ultimate figure will turn out to be in the upper half of that range. More importantly, the literature on ``nonshared environment'' has developed dramatically since Dick and I were researching The Bell Curve. Its core finding is that, whatever the role of environment may be in determining IQ, only a small portion of that role consists of influences that can be manipulated (through better child-rearing, better schools, etc.). For practical purposes, the ability of public policy to affect IQ is probably smaller than Dick and I concluded.”--C. Murray

          I read this as saying that intelligence differentials are much less (20 to 40 percent) controlled by environment than by genetics (60-80 percent) and that no societal (environmental) improvements would be enough to normalize the IQ levels within groups in America which have measured lowest.  The conclusion he infers is that Blacks are born genetically so far inferior, that they are doomed to significantly lower IQ levels as a group--regardless of environmental improvements………… You quote an anonymous Wikipedia entry.  I’m quoting the author himself speaking about his own book after having sufficient time to reflect on the criticism of it.

          (For whatever it's worth, I don't buy the argument.  Every group on top has a self interest in saying they got there by being naturally better, being born better.  They then more so deserve what they have and the place in society they occupy---it's self serving.  It's been said about other groups before, and later proven wrong.) 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by notanotherconservative2254 (March 09, 2008 1:57 am ET)
               
            franky:

            Aside from the article, have you read the book?




            Report Abuse
            • Author by franky (March 09, 2008 3:21 am ET)
                 
              No, so my opinion based on the article is invalid, right?  And yet you did read it---of course you did.  You got me.  Happy?
              Report Abuse
      • Author by franky (March 09, 2008 1:52 am ET)
           

        Can I bear witness to roots, of ALLL evil?  and money love?....... that shoe fit ?

         

        Amen!, “Tell it

        Praise the Lord!

        Hallelujah!!!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by franky (March 09, 2008 3:17 am ET)
             
          Seriously though, you state your case brutally but the truth here is brutal.  You don't let them off with the much less damning charges of stupidity or ignorance. 
          Report Abuse
    • Author by LarryE (March 08, 2008 6:50 am ET)
         

      Pretty good takedown. I thought I did a pretty good job myself, but I wish I'd had that Statistical Abstract chart. (I'll be linking back here as an update.)

      It should be noted that this piece of tripe has been blasted across the spectrum. Even Ed Morrissey, late of Captain's Quarters and now of Michelle Malkin's Hot Air, referred to its "sheer breadth of nonsense" and said that

      "If Charlotte Allen wants to embrace her inner dimness, she is free to do so. After reading this essay, she has a lot to embrace."

      Report Abuse
      • Author by juliajayne (March 08, 2008 9:29 am ET)
           
        Great job, Larrye!
        Report Abuse
      • Author by spooky3 (March 08, 2008 2:32 pm ET)
           

        Larrye, you did do an excellent job, and I don't mean to nit-pick, but this is a pretty important point. It's widely believed, but it simply isn't true, that the BODY of literature on cognitive differences clearly supports the notion that the genders as groups differ as you indicated, and I think you should not concede that point to our dear Miss Allen. For example, re: spatial abilities, you linked to one empirical study (as opposed to a lit. review or meta-analysis examining all of the known relevant empirical studies to date) that appeared in an obscure social science journal (as opposed to leading social science or medical/brain physiology journals), meaning it was probably rejected due to weaknesses, by reviewers at better journals. MMFA cited a summary of this lit. intended for laypersons (in Nature) so that's a bit better. But in any case, the burden is on Allen to make the case using citations to BODY of the original literature itself. Controversies in that literature and findings to the contrary must be spelled out fairly. She did nothing of the sort.

        So, looks like a bagel game, set, and match to Larrye, to MMFA, and to anyone interested in the facts rather than promoting a misogynist agenda. 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by LarryE (March 08, 2008 5:33 pm ET)
             

          This surely isn't the place to hash this out, so I'll do this quickly and leave it at that.

          it isn't true, that the BODY of literature on cognitive differences supports the notion that the genders differ as you indicated, you should not concede that point

          I used the phrase "pretty well established" deliberately because it's generally but not universally agreed that such biological differences exist. The point can be "conceded" because it's totally irrelevant to the claim that women are "dumber." It's like saying red is a "worse" color than blue.

          re: spatial abilities, you linked to one empirical study as opposed to a lit. review or meta-analysis

          That's because I was just trying to offer an example, just as I did for women's verbal abilities. If the whole post had been on the issue of different forms of intelligence, I expect I would have done more.

          an obscure social science journal meaning it was probably rejected by reviewers at better journals

          I don't know how "obscure" IJSS is or how much of that "obscurity" is derived from the fact that it's not based in the US (only one member of its advisory board is American). I do know that it is a peer-reviewed journal and the unsupported assumption the article is there only because it was "rejected at better journals" is improper.

          Controversies in that literature and findings to the contrary must be spelled out fairly. She did nothing of the sort.

          This is one and I expect the only time I will defend Allen: She was writing a political screed, not a scholarly paper. She was under no more obligation to "spell out findings to the contrary" than Barack Obama is to say "Senator McCain makes some good points on this issue."

          And we probably should be glad she didn't "spell out controversies fairly." Her failure just gave us another line of attack.  :-) 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by LarryE (March 08, 2008 7:18 pm ET)
               

            After posting that and recalling the political nature of the site, I thought that maybe, just maybe, red and blue were not the best color choices.  :-\

            So make it, I dunno, green and yellow, how's that?  ;-)

            Report Abuse
          • Author by spooky3 (March 08, 2008 8:18 pm ET)
               

            I agree this isn't the place to hash out the side points, but some of what you say has to be challenged. I am a social science researcher at an elite university and am on the editorial boards of several journals. So I simply can't agree that it's "improper" to judge journals; in fact that's part of what I'm paid to do. It has nothing to do with whether the journal is based in the US, although many of the top ones are. But if you don't want to take my word for it, free to check out the impact factor of this journal through ISI, SSCI, etc. Nor is it wrong or the slightest bit inappropriate to suggest that articles that appear in lower-tier journals are usually there because they couldn't or didn't get accepted in better journals. That is the reality of academic research. 

            Another problem is that if ANY pundit (not just our friend Allen) wants to make assertions about what scientists have studied -- whether the topic is gender differences and whether they are attributable to genes or social influences or other factors; global warming; or anything else -- they can had better take the time to check out the facts and talk to experts in the research, or else they can expect to be taken to task -- as you did so well -- if they make stereotyped or otherwise ridiculous, biased statements. 

             

            Report Abuse
            • Author by LarryE (March 09, 2008 3:31 am ET)
                 

              I wasn't going to go any further on this but I will will take this one additional step - and no more, I promise - for the sake of clarity, if nothing else.

              I can't agree that it's "improper" to judge journals

              I never said it was. I said it was improper to assume, as you did, that because an article appears in a less-prominent journal that it automatically means it is inferior scholarship. As a social science researcher, you should know that the converse of a theorem isn't necessarily true. Even if the "reality" is that efforts that are rejected by less obscure journals later appear in more obscure ones, that does not provide any proof that an article appearing in such a journal was previously rejected as inadequate by others or is of inferior quality. Assumptions are not evidence.

              It has nothing to do with whether the journal is based in the US

              Another "reality" of which I would expect you to be aware is that "non-American" and "obscure" are synonymous among American researchers to a not-insignificant degree.

              If you want to challenge the particular article, the research, its methodology and/or its findings, by all means do. Again, I was just throwing it up as an example of a study that found men having an edge in certain abilities. But do not expect me to dismiss it, as you have, simply because it appeared in a less-prominent journal - especially when that dismissal is based on the unsupported assumption that it must have been previously rejected by "better" publications.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by vodalus (March 09, 2008 6:25 pm ET)
                   

                I'd like to point out that peer reviewers are not immune to their own personal biases.  A case in point:  a female colleague of mine (graduate student in engineering) submitted a paper to a fairly prestigious journal and was rejected.  This paper was resubmitted to a less prestigious journal and published.  Quite some time later, she noticed a new paper in said fairly prestigious journal that sounded quite relevant to her work.  Much to her surprise, it was a word for word copy of her already published paper that had been submitted by a foreign research group.

                The success of a peer review paper is highly situational.  We like to pretend that science and math are purely objective and that personal biases will never obscure the truth, but that just isn't the case.  Most researchers (and especially well-established, highly-respected researchers) have their own pet theories and approaches that they prefer.  Publishing results means selecting and defending an interpretation.  In an ideal world, it would be ok to change one's opinion on one's results, but in our real world, that makes you look bad as a scientist.  Thus if you can't be sure that you picked correctly, then you better make sure that you pick with vehemence and allies.

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    • Author by atheist (March 08, 2008 3:35 pm ET)
         

      I used to be hyper-critical of other women for being too "female" ... I'm very much into the hard sciences (math and engineering) and my career is in computing, I'm very un-romantic, I can't cook, I've never wanted kids and made sure I can't have them (unless via IVF), I can't stand romance novels or classic women's TV and film fare ...

      But I've lightened up a bit.  Women are different from men, we accept this, but women themselves are different from each other !  Some women tend toward more "masculine" than other women.  To not allow women to be themselves, to be varied, to express the more stereotypical feminine traits, is unfair, and probably unwise too.

      Allen herself seems to be a contradiction.  She denigrates women who swoon over Obama or watch Oprah or push a romance novel onto a  bestseller list, and yet she concludes by stating that women shouldn't have scientific careers and should be happy homemakers.  The latter is precisely what Betty Friedan complained about 4 decades ago.

      So in conclusion, I declare Allen a dumbsh*t.   :-)

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      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (March 09, 2008 1:32 am ET)
           

        10-4, Atheist. This is a counterpart to the type of woman that calls in to Rush Limbaugh's show, complaining that those "feminazis" hate stay at home moms, and want to prohibit women from doing the mommy/wife thing. Of course, nobody's trying to stop that. just keeping options open.

        As rough a job as raising kids is ( I've dodged it myself), it gets pretty boring hearing those who decided to do it tell everybody else how worthless their lives are, then pull the victim card when those others point out that they've lived just as fulfilling lives.

        Almost as boring as hearing those women who have chosen to be Republican working women psychoanalyze those who have not pursued the exact same course as they have.

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      • Author by tman418 (March 09, 2008 6:22 pm ET)
           
        You know Atheist, you definitely bring up a good point about women and men being different.

        Julia Jayne just brought up Phyllis Schlaffley, the anti feminist (a.k.a. the anti women are humans too crowd). I learned in history that she was the one who helped defeat the ERA (Equal Rights Amendment) which would ban any discrimination on the basis of gender. She declared that any woman who supported this amendment hated "men, marriage, and children" and that women should "accept their God-given roles as mothers and housewives."

        There are many anti-feminists who assert that feminism and the sexual revolution have only damaged and degraded women further because they abandoned the traditional roles of a "stable" household with marriage and blah blah. Women like Allen are directly degrading their own sex and no one is pointing to her.
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    • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (March 09, 2008 11:43 am ET)
         

      Allen is just another hypocrite like Phyllis Schlafly.

      Allen writes for a newspaper (this isn't her first article for the Post), yet tells women they shouldn't have careers. 

      Schlafly flies all over the country telling women their place is in the home. 

      Today, the Ombudsman for the Post tried to tell everyone that Allen's column was a "joke." Since the definition of "joke" is "something meant to be funny," Allen's column was not a joke.

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      • Author by juliajayne (March 09, 2008 5:34 pm ET)
           
        Her column was a joke alright. Just not in the way the meant.
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    • Author by lokywoky (March 09, 2008 6:39 pm ET)
         

      The part that really bothers me is that this is published as an opinion piece - even though it purports to have "evidence" backing up her ridiculous premise.  I am, for one, getting really sick of "opinion" pieces using faulty references, blatant lies, misrepresentation of peer reviewed studies, and previously debunked hogwash to make a statement that is then published without fact-checking.  In fact - a piece such as this masquerading as "opinion" then begins being quoted (since it has REFERENCES!) as if it is a fact - it makes the rounds of the MSM, and pretty soon the entire public believes the whole mess is true!

       I believe that if an "opinion" piece is submitted for publication, particularly if it is published as an "article" somewhere else in the newspaper - the editors have a responsibility to fact-check the thing - otherwise, it should be put on the opinion page and a big disclaimer at the top saying that it has NOT been fact-checked to alert to idiots among us who think the opinion page is the only one that counts.

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