Fox & Friends' Kilmeade baselessly claimed Newsmax contributor "sat next to" Obama during church services
SUMMARY: On Fox News' Fox & Friends, co-host Brian Kilmeade baselessly asserted that Newsmax "freelance reporter" Jim Davis "sat next to Barack Obama" when Obama heard controversial statements made by Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., then-pastor of Obama's church, during a July 22, 2007, service. In fact, Davis did not claim in his article that he "sat next to" Obama during the service, and Obama's campaign called the Newsmax report "inaccurate." Also, New York Times columnist Bill Kristol reported that Newsmax had claimed that Obama was at church on the relevant day. Kristol subsequently issued a correction, writing: "The Obama campaign has provided information showing that Sen. Obama did not attend Trinity that day. I regret the error."
While discussing on the March 17 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends controversial statements made by Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., Sen. Barack Obama's former pastor, co-host Brian Kilmeade referred to and quoted from a March 16 Newsmax report by Ron Kessler that cited an August 9, 2007, Newsmax.com article by "freelance reporter" Jim Davis and stated: "On July 22nd [2007] he [Davis] sat next to Barack Obama as Barack Obama heard some of these same statements from that very preacher [Wright] and was nodding along." Kilmeade added, that "according to the reporter as he heard it," Wright used the phrase "[t]he United States of white America" and "lac[ed] in with expletives as Obama listened on." In fact, neither Kessler nor Davis claimed that Davis "sat next to" Obama during the service. Moreover, in a March 16 entry to its "Know the Facts" Web page, the Obama campaign refuted Newsmax's reporting, calling it "inaccurate" and stating: "Obama did not attend services on July 22nd." As reported by several media outlets, Obama was in Miami on July 22, 2007, speaking at the National Council of La Raza's (NCLR) annual convention. According to the NCLR's schedule for the day, Obama spoke as part of a "special forum" between 1:30 and 3 p.m. ET.
Following Kilmeade's assertion, co-host Steve Doocy referred to Bill Kristol's March 17 New York Times column -- in which Kristol also cited Kessler's March 16 Newmax.com column -- as a "bombshell." Co-host Alisyn Camerota added: "So that's actual evidence if you believe the story that he was there for some of these very inflammatory, offensive comments." In a subsequent report on the same edition of Fox & Friends, Doocy reported: "I know there's an item in The New York Times today that says that July 22nd he was there, but there's another report that he was probably down in Florida that day, so people are trying to connect the dots right now." In fact, later in the day on March 17, Kristol issued a correction that read:
In this column, I cite a report that Sen. Obama had attended services at Trinity Church on July 22, 2007. The Obama campaign has provided information showing that Sen. Obama did not attend Trinity that day. I regret the error.
In addition, Newsmax has issued a clarification that now accompanies Kessler's March 16 column, which reads:
Clarification: The Obama campaign has told members of the press that Senator Obama was not in church on the day cited, July 22, because he had a speech he gave in Miami at 1:30 PM. Our writer, Jim Davis, says he attended several services at Senator Obama's church during the month of July, including July 22. The church holds services three times every Sunday at 7:30 and 11 a.m. and 6 p.m. Central time. While both the early morning and evening service allowed Sen. Obama to attend the service and still give a speech in Miami, Mr. Davis stands by his story that during one of the services he attended during the month of July, Senator Obama was present and sat through the sermon given by Rev. Wright as described in the story. Mr. Davis said Secret Service were also present in the church during Senator Obama's attendance. Mr. Davis' story was first published on Newsmax on August 9, 2007. Shortly before publication, Mr. Davis contacted the press office of Sen. Obama several times for comment about the Senator's attendance and Rev. Wright's comments during his sermon. The Senator's office declined to comment.
In a March 17 discussion thread on the conservative website FreeRepublic, someone who claimed to be the author of the August 9, 2007, Newsmax article defended the piece, claiming: "I did see Barack Obama that day. I said so in the article, and I'm saying so now." The poster, Philo1962, wrote further: "Now, after everyone's memory has faded, my notes have been taken to some landfill and there has been plenty of time to doctor the videos and the websites, the Obama campaign tries to deny he was there?"
From the March 17 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:
DOOCY: Hey, the Jeremiah Wright, the reverend of that church out in Chicago that Barack Obama has belonged to coming up on 20 years -- it's been very troubling for the senator from Illinois. There's some new news this morning, but if you need to get caught up to date on what the story's all about, here's a little summation.
[begin video clip]
WRIGHT: Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill have been good to us. No he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.
OBAMA: He is a well-regarded preacher, and somebody who is known for talking about the social gospel, but most of the time, when I'm in church, he's talking about Jesus, God, faith, values.
WRIGHT: The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color -- venomous lies.
OBAMA: None of these statements were ones that I had heard myself personally in the pews. One of them, I had heard about after I had started running for president and I put out a statement at that time condemning them.
WRIGHT: Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a [bleep].
OBAMA: These are not statements that I am comfortable with; I reject them completely. They are not ones that reflect my values or my ideals.
[end video clip]
KILMEADE: The thing is, he says he never heard him talk like this when he was in the pews. Now, there's a report right now that Ronald Kessler writes about. And he writes today that Jim Davis wrote for Newsmax -- was a freelance reporter for Newsmax, which is an online magazine and actually a newspaper -- a magazine that comes to your door. On July 22nd he sat next to Barack Obama as Barack Obama heard some of these same statements from that very preacher and was nodding along, according to the reporter as he heard it. The United States of white America, lacing in with expletives as Obama listened on. "Hearing Wright's attacks," goes the story, "Obama had the opportunity to walk out but Davis said" -- the reporter -- "that the senator sat in his pew and nodded along."
DOOCY: So what's extraordinary about this is -- and you saw during that little montage you saw some of Barack Obama appearing on Hannity & Colmes right here on the Fox News Channel on Friday night. And one of the final questions Major Garrett asked Barack Obama was, "If you had heard any of those things would you have quit the church?" And he said, "Absolutely, I would have quit the church."
But this bombshell today that, in fact, Bill Kristol talks about in The New York Times this morning, is it on -- during this past year, July 22nd, Barack Obama, according to Jim Davis as quoted by Ron Kessler -- and of course Ron Kessler from The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post, very well-respected reporter -- says Barack Obama was in the room that day when they were talking about stuff just like this.
CAMEROTA: So that's actual evidence if you believe the story that he was there for some of these very inflammatory, offensive comments.
DOOCY: How could you miss them?
CAMEROTA: How could you have gone to the church for 20 years?
DOOCY: Yeah. And miss them?
CAMEROTA: It doesn't stand to reason that this pastor only said these things twice and that Barack Obama happened to not be there during those two times.
[...]
OBAMA [video clip]: You heard some statements from my former pastor that were incendiary and that I completely reject, although I, you know, knew him and know him as somebody in my church who talked to me about Jesus and family and friendships but clearly had -- you know, but if all I knew was those statements that I saw on television, I would be shocked.
DOOCY: Juan Williams joins us live from our D.C. bureau. Juan, I don't know if you saw the Major Garrett interview with Barack Obama on Friday night.
WILLIAMS: I did.
DOOCY: Well, at the very end, he asked Barack Obama, "So if you heard those comments, those fiery comments from Reverend Wright, would you quit your church? Would you leave your church?" And he said yes.
You gotta figure people are going through all the tape right now trying to find the day that Barack Obama was indeed in the pews. I know there's an item in The New York Times today that says that July 22nd he was there, but there's another report that he was probably down in Florida that day, so people are trying to connect the dots right now.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I think -- see, we get locked into this, and now it becomes kind of a hunt. You know, Steven, I think that --
DOOCY: Gotcha.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. And I just think it's too bad, because Barack Obama was trying to represent that he was beyond this, that he was taking us to a different place. I think that's why people have been voting for him, people wanted to be supportive of him, people saw him as taking us to a different place in terms of race or even beyond race in this country. And suddenly here we are back with Barack Obama playing -- I think it's dodgeball because there's no getting away from the fact he knew exactly who Jeremiah Wright was. He wouldn't have Jeremiah Wright at his announcement last year for this very reason when he was announcing for president.
Me too! I sat in the pew right behind Obama & Davis, between Anna Nicole Smith and Paris Hilton. Behind us, were Tupac, Al Sharpton, and Heather Mills (Heather kept on throwing cups of water on Paris, claiming she was baptizing her).
I was in the pew right behind you! Did you see it when Heather Mills took off her artificial leg and hit Al Sharpton upside the head with it??? What a hoot!!!
FOX "News" (a fake news network) should use sources other than Newsmax (another fake news contributor) before they go on the air with false stories. Credibility runs thin on the right wing. These types of stories work with stupid people.
On the other hand, maybe the church held a special service in Florida, because that's where Obama REALLY was that day. . . Morons.
On the other hand, maybe the church held a special service in Florida, because that's where Obama REALLY was that day. . .
Either that, or Rev. Wright has been using the collection money or the Building Fund to build a Star Trek-type transporter to beam himself wherever Barack Obama happens to be.....
{sarcasm off}
What? Kilmeade exaggerated, embellished and/or lied?! Nothing new for Kilmeade as he does this all the time...always messing up the facts.
Kristol: "I regret the error".
The Times should regret the error of giving Kristol a column.
"Faux News - All Obama-Bashing, All The Time".
:-)
What?
Obama has a trusted spiritual advisor with whom he disagrees politically at times.
What's wrong with that?
then I'd find his rhetoric extremely disturbing.
Mary,
You and Indigo do not have to agree with me. Especially since I am sure you two are both Obama supporters. I support Clinton. I think this contradiction between what he claims to be all about and the words and actions quite frankly, of his pastor, will cause him problems in the general. The Republicans take every Democrat's best asset and bludgeon them to death with it. They have found their weapon for Obama. He claims to be a uniter but his spiritual advisor and close friend is an American hating racist. Bottom line. It will be a problem. Maybe not for you, but the electorate is not made up of 100% Obamaites.
Read Pearline's post.
The right wing will do its thing with any nominee.
"The words are different from the Caucasian evangelicals. They call America evil because abortion is legal and gay people are not arrested."
Would you expect a person to discern the message coming from the caucasian evangelicals and leave that church if it becomes un-Biblical? So would I. So why do you defend Obama's inability to perform the same discernment?
Would you agree that Bush has poor judgement (among other things)? Then why would you want another president with poor judgement? Is it only because he's black? Is your stance on presidents with poor judgement similar to this; Bush is bad, but a black Bush would be ok?
American hating racist? As it is with so much that is Clinton the campaign, this sounds like a flippin' Republican talking point memo. Well done, idiot.
Make no bones about it, I'm not enamoured of Obama, he strays from the Progressive cause too often but his approach is a damn sight better than Hillary the neoliberal.
Furthermore, this demonstrates that Obama will not isolate himself from ideas he finds abhorent nor will seek to stifle the right to speak freely in America. This incident is indeed an example of Obama's personal strength.
Continue to keep your head in the sand. Wright hates America. Why?Because he thinks America is for and run by "RIIIICCCHHHH WHHHHHHIIIIIITTTTTEEEEE PPPPEEEEEEEOOOOOOPPPPPLLLLLLEEEE". I am white, not rich and I only run my cubicle. Did America create AIDS to keep black people around the world opressed? Did America create the record number of incarceration rates among black men? Did America deserve 9/11? Hell, no wonder Michelle has not been proud of this country in her adult life, she has been at Trinity too long. I feel this Wright issue is bigger than anything the pastor said. The question for me is how could a man raised by three honkeys from Kansas feel the need for spiritual guidance from a man like Wright. Something attracted Obama to Wright and kept him with him for 20 years. Is Obama ashamed of who he really is and his upbringing? Is he the first black presidential candidate to not only benefit from white guilt at the voting booth but suffer from it personally? Is that why he did not stand up for where and who he is from? Clinton is not the ideal candidate but with things as screwed up as they are, give me a former president as the new presidents' closest advisor. You can take the guy three years removed from the state legislator.
You do not know this pastor, yet you think you can offer a quick assessment of his whole life and Obama and his wife.
I think you are behaving in an extremely arrogant manner. This is a big problem in America.
Interesting, Seeyer, how you slipped the cropped quote of Michelle Obama into your litany of accusations against Barack. Also, very disappointing. It was a cheap smear, plain and simple. Like Hillary's campaign itself, you've come to rely on the dishonest tactics that the Republicans have engaged in for at least the last 20 years. We've all been watching Hillary veer off into wingnut territory as she has become increasingly desperate, and now seems to be employing a scorched earth approach to the nomination, even up to and including playing the race card. She has put her own ambition ahead of the best interests of the Democratic Party and the American people as a whole. She has become John McCain in a pantsuit.
You say you support Hillary Clinton. I am certain she would disown your comments (both your language and your thrust) as inflammatory and unfair. She has distinct policy differences with Barack Obama on some issues (like health care), and she believes she has an "experience" edge. Unlike you, the Clinton campaign, and Hillary Clinton has not stooped to the politics and language of the Republican right wing on this issue as you have. So, if you wish to continue this line of attack, please do not associate your comments with the Clinton campaign. You do not speak for Hillary Clinton or her supporters. You speak only for yourself.
If you despise and mistrust Obama so much and you believe he is under the nefarious influence of the evil Rev Wright, I encourage you not to vote for him, but to vote for either of the other two candidates who you believe better represent your passionate views on race, Christianity, politics, and values. Clearly Obama is not that person for you.
Not our fault your mind is closed, not our fault you don't have the fortitude in your gut to practice patience or apply understanding to a life born into segregation.
So are you saying that my distaste for racism means I am not enlightened? Give me a break. Bill Vlinton is called a racist for saying that the Clinton's knew SC would be tough becasue JJ won in '88 but I am weak mentally because I can't accept Wright's rhetoric? You are clueless and why Dems are headed to defeat in Novemer. But I am sure you will just blam racist America for his loss, not his horrible judgement of embracing this loony. Obama calls for Imus' firing but calls for people to understand Wright's rage?
I would say you lack the maturity to view race without being a kneejeerk reactionary.
>>>Those are serious general election issues which could prove fatal IMO.
This is ridiculous.
If the RNC's election year strategy against Obama is to wail on and on about his loose cannon pastor (versus addressing issues like the economy, Iraq, national security, etc) they're truly doomed. And anyone who believes otherwise probably wasn't going to support Obama's candidacy anyhow (e.g. Fox News).
Plus, if Bill Clinton was able to get elected president twice in the wake of his sexual misadventures as governor of Arkansas (a story far more salacious than anything linked to Obama), I seriously doubt this fracas will cripple Obama's campaign.
If anything, the whole noise surrounding Wright seems to smack of the right-wing finally latching onto a negative story it can use against Obama without making itself look racist - which is a problem it has struggled with up until now.
By the time the PA primaries come around, however, the Obama-Wright story will be ancient history.
By the time the PA primaries come around, however, the Obama-Wright story will be ancient history.
The brain-dead spinmeisters on the right (such as Limbaugh, Hannity, and Levin) are doing their best to keep this story going - even to the point where the ignore the fact that Rev. Wright has retired; they keep referring to him as "Obama's pastor".
I think this has been the lead "story" on Hannity and Colmes for the past 2 weeks. Hannity still calls this story "explosive".
How about:
(1) The former Pastor of Obama's church; or
(2) Obama's former pastor; or
(3) The retired Reverend Wright
Any one of the above three are (IMHO) acceptable ways to refer to the Reverend Wright without distorting Obama's current relationship with him.
You're making more out of this than necessary. I'm also a Clinton supporter (but, as I've said many times, if Obama gets the nomination, he'll get my vote). Seeyer, you're sounding like an ultra-rightwinger. This BS is indefensible and has no place in politics. Let's talk about issues, not the candidates' pastors.
No, Seeyer, you sound like a wingnut. The vitriol. the distortions, and the lies that you have employed here are the classic tactics of the right, and you seem more than a little at home with them. You are functioning as a sputtering screech monkey for Clinton, and, ultimately, you are doing nothing but helping the Republicans to maintain power.
I suspect that that is your true goal here.
Well then get active. Stop being the victim, don't be suprised at how low Republicans will go, how far they'll stetch the truth to win. They can't help themselves, they have no principles.
If your pastor said the things Wright said about America and about people that are the same color as your Mom and grand parents, would you continue to be a member of that church? Or would you stay and just not repeat the claims? What kind of leader and man stands pat while a punk like Wright spews this hatred? And give me a break if you think this stuff is all new to Obama. As a white man, raised by white people, if my pastor said things about any race as inflammatory as Wright's statements then you can bet I would not be back. But I guess the politically expedient things for Obama to do then was to stay put and now the expedient thing to do is play blind and deaf. That may work in this primary, it will be a tougher sell in the general.
Keep trying to bind Obama to Wright as if they were one person, you'll just end up looking even more stupid than you already insist you are.
Kilmeade's claim was based on Kessler's article. Sorry, MMFA, his claim was not "baseless". As for the "sat next to him" remark, yeah, that's not true, but does "sat next to" versus "in the same building" change this:
"White arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.
As we reported this morning, the Obama campaign said the senator was not present at the July 22 service.
A few minutes ago, Kessler told us by telephone that "the NewsMax editors have talked with Jim Davis" and "he might have been wrong about the date."
Davis, Kessler added, "says he could have been wrong about the date, but it definitely happened."
Kessler added that he's confident about the rest of Davis' reporting because "I was impressed by the details he had." Asked if getting the date wrong isn't something that would raise questions about the rest of a reporter's work, Kessler said no. And he said that "in general, (Obama's) claim that he doesn't know anything about these sermons is ridiculous."
The Trinity Church thought that these video clips were so indicative of the type of "religious enlightenment" that one would receive while in attendance that they put them into a promotional DVD for the church!
But Barack has "never" heard this man, who performed his freaking wedding, say anything like this? What a load of bull!!
Barack, who is campaigning in PA today, isn't answering questions about Jeremiah Wright. Typical liberal way of making an issue go away...."I'm not going to talk about it." Yeah, that's going to work really well when it comes to REAL ISSUES when he's President.
"What, my health care plan is a financial disaster? Well, uh, um, well....I'm not taking questions on health care today."
Guess you like bushco forever, eh? That is, until your money and health care disappear with a giant sucking sound, to corporate cons' endless swindle. The Cons borrow and spend and cook the books, and you cover for them. You con yourself, my friend.
I'm here for you Mary.
This has the potential to be Obama's finest moment. This is where we all get to see his ability lead as he sublimely thrashes the rightwing smear gang and other haters for ever doubting his patriotism.
He will be a stronger contentender on the other side of this transparent attempt to slay his candidacy.
Truth Time: Wright Is Right
by DF
Thomas Jefferson. He was a brilliant political philosopher. But when he wrote “All men are created equal” he didn’t mean it the way I take it. He wasn’t talking about the rights of all men. He certainly wasn’t talking about the rights of women. The man owned slaves.
This country was built on the backs of African slaves on land that was robbed in the slaughter of Native Americans.
We’ve come a long way since 1776. In many ways, America still represents some of the best hopes of this dream of human liberty. But we are not perfect. We have not yet arrived at our destination. And this country is still largely controlled by rich, white men. You can say, if you wish, that Jeremiah Wright is too loud and too angry, but you cannot say that he is wrong. I’ve been astounded by all of the people on this so-called progressive forum that seem to be held aghast at these ideas. I thought that progressives knew that the Iraq War was predicated on lies. I thought that progressives knew that unilateral support for Israeli policies with respect for Palestine was a source of difficulties in our nation’s relationships in the Middle East at large. I thought that progressives knew that 9/11 didn’t happen because they hate us for our freedom, but because of a complex history of these relationships that go back at least 50 years if not back through the better part of the 20th century. I thought progressives knew that entering the halls of power isn’t easy if you’re not a white man.
Let me be clear on this: This is only a problem for Barack Obama in that there are still a lot of pinheads around that don’t understand that dissent is the highest form of patriotism. And he’ll distance himself from it because he has to and because Wright’s style isn’t his. It’s not how Obama rolls. But there’s nothing untrue about Wright’s statements in and of themselves.
This is a picture that I like to look at every so often to remind myself of these realities. It’s a picture of nine white men beaming over Bush as he signs the “partial birth abortion” ban. It’s ten white men presiding over the rights of women. There isn’t one woman present here. This is the reality of power in America today. You can squawk all you want about how everything is fair, but that isn’t the way it shakes out, now is it?
If America wants to insist on maintaining the status quo so that we can make sure that rich, white men can keep taking advantage, then I say damn America, too. If America wants to insist that no wrong can be done underneath Old Glory, then I say damn America. If America wants to insist that nothing our nation does in the world community will ever come back on us, then I say damn America, but I don’t have to because she’s already damned herself. The power of the ideas that founded this country was not in the men who codified them. The power lies in the way that they ring to true to all who encounter them, encouraging them to be spread ever wider, ever deeper. It is the touchstone of human nature that we desire to be free. It is this spark that becomes a fire when we realize that we are all locked into this struggle together.
The struggle is not over and maybe it never will be, but don’t get confused about Jeremiah Wright. His only crime is being abrasive, but the people who find him most abrasive are the people who have are invented in denying the truth that he speaks
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/15/7702/
What the Iraq war is a financial disaster? I'm not taking questions on that now.
What war on poverty?
At least the "war on poverty" helps regular people to eat and have a roof over their heads.
The war on terror only lines the pockets of the cronies and the connected. So now , Wino, I know that you stand with the corporatists/contractors and against regular Americans.
How fascist of you.
A country that could not defend itself? Yeah, I believe that. They could not defend themselves from a tyrannical, murderous dictator like Saddam Hussein, so the good ole' U S of A rode into town and saved the day. We captured Hussein and handed him over to the Iraqi people (remember, Saddam won the "election" by a 100% margin) and they promptly killed him. We've opened schools, hospitals, electricity plants, water and sewer treatment facilities, etc.
So, instead of living in oppression and fear, Iraq now only has a few radical cockroaches running around with their pipe bombs. But we'll eradicate those beetles, too. We'll teach these Iraqis how to live as free people (they've been "institutionalized" you know) and when they CAN defend themselves, then we'll go away.
Here's an idea. Let's put the Iraqi people to a vote on whether we should stay or go. If they vote for us to stay, we stay (with certain stipulations). If they vote for us to go, we pack up and leave. Sound fair? I like it!
A country that could not defend itself? Yeah, I believe that. They could not defend themselves from a tyrannical, murderous dictator like Saddam Hussein, so the good ole' U S of A rode into town and saved the day.
The Bush administration cares nothing for the Iraqis; they have their own agenda in Iraq and this is not lost upon the Iraqis. That's why the vast majority of the population are against this occupation and think it is perfectly acceptable for Iraqis to kill the foreign invaders.
We've opened schools, hospitals, electricity plants, water and sewer treatment facilities, etc.
Iraq had all these things already. And you forgot to mention that the Bush administration opened up terrorism in their country.
So, instead of living in oppression and fear, Iraq now only has a few radical cockroaches running around with their pipe bombs. But we'll eradicate those beetles, too.
They still live in oppression and fear.
We'll teach these Iraqis how to live as free people (they've been "institutionalized" you know) and when they CAN defend themselves, then we'll go away.
The Iraqis don't want us there. They can decide the future of their country themselves.
Here's an idea. Let's put the Iraqi people to a vote on whether we should stay or go.
I would absolutely have no problem with that.
Here's an idea. Let's put the Iraqi people to a vote on whether we should stay or go.
They may not have had a vote, but polls show that the vast majority want us to leave. Why, Wino, do you want us to stay?
Liar. Gen. David Petraeus backs me up on this, google it. We have failed to provide basic public services to pre-invasion levels.
Also, we have no demostrable political progress to claim in Iraq.
It's the damn truth, your trust was betrayed by these honest to God Neocon criminals. Sidewinders betrayed our public trust and jeopardized the longterm safety of the United States by taking down the wrong guy while showing zero concern about the real 9/11 killer.
Treason.
Serious.
Please link to the specific quote where Obama says he "never heard this man [Wright]".
Also, fyi: Obama addressed the Wright matter thoroughly (and convincingly) to the Chicago Tribune. It's on the Trib's web site.
Maybe you should put down the hate for a few minutes.
Oh, Dave, stop trying to be a MMFA intern. My quote was:
But Barack has "never" heard this man, who performed his freaking wedding, say anything like this?
But I'll play along:
OBAMA: None of these statements were ones that I had heard myself personally in the pews.
"If you had heard any of those things would you have quit the church?" And he said, "Absolutely, I would have quit the church."
"...Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made."
It might, if it's a big building, gestures could be interpreted differently fron 2 feet or 20 feet away.
Of course, that's all beside the point, as Obama was in Florida, and the entire report sounds like 100% bullsh*t.
The next time one of you wingnuts links to Newsmax to back you up, and you go crying to your "attacking the messenger" cop-out when it's laughed at, think about this item.
"If you had heard any of those things would you have quit the church?" And he said, "Absolutely, I would have quit the church."
You're right, Mary, lies catch up to liars. We'll see, huh?
In the typical conservative way you prefer your delusions and lies to reality. So you accept what Kessler says and deny what Obama says. Kessler says he sat next to him, then the Obama campaign didnt just SAY he wasnt there they PROVED he wasnt there so Kessler says well maybe I got the date wrong but I definitly remember it. Yet the date he made that sermon is WELL KNOWN. Obama wasnt there its that simple but typical for lying conservatives FACTS mean nothing to you. Whatever the ideologically servicable propaganda you prefer is, THAT is what you believe and continue to regurgitate. Its pathetic but its typical.
- solon / Tuesday March 18, 2008 12:50:26 AM EDT
No, Wine. You're making yourself look foolish for so zealously clinging to such a meaningless story.
I hate to break this to you, but Obama and Wright are two different people.
Plus, in his book "Audacity of Hope" Obama mentions Wright in only one sentence (Pg 356) in the 362-page text when noting where he got his book's title from. Otherwise, neither Wright nor the Trinity Church is mentioned anywhere else in the book.
You know how I know this? I read it.
One would think if Obama were as in love with Wright's fiery rhetoric as people like Sean Hannity and Druggie Limbaugh suggest, that it would be all over the text and his speeches - but it's not.
You're missing the boat. Obama is a genuine patriot not some slack jawed Republican tweaker bent on selling his principles to the highest bidding corporate lobbyist. Obama lives his values, Jack. Freedom, opportunity, prosperity, trust, openess the man has the soul of a poet.
"I'm not going to talk about it." Yeah, that's going to work really well when it comes to REAL ISSUES when he's President.(Swine)
If I'm following you, you don't trust somebody who doesn't want to talk about meaningless trivial BS, because that means they don't want to talk about real issues? hm.
"meaningless, trivial BS"
You mean the same "meaningless, trivial BS" that's in every newspaper and on every news channel for the last 3 days? Is that the "meaningless, trivial BS" you're referring to?
You mean like Paris Hilton going to jail? That level of news coverage? Wow, that was a key story wasn't it?
But here's what we need to talk about: exactly how wrong is Wright?
Much has been made of Wright saying that instead of singing "God Bless America," black people should sing "God Damn America."
Ouch!
Except...
The full text of the pastors remarks are: The government gives them (blacks) the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing God bless America? No, no, no. Not God bless America. God damn America. Put in context, there is a difference. Personally, not a song I would sing, but there is reasoning to the argument.
And how about Wright's racist barb thrown at Senator Clinton? He's quoted as implying that Clintons had an easier time of things because "Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single parent home. Barack was." Well, uh, yeah. Basically the statement just makes Wright the Geraldine Ferarro of black men. Plus, being a black man, we all know that he was born lucky!
In March of last year Fox news...talker guy Sean Hannity got into it with Wright over doctrines posted on the CUC website. Among those quoted and berated by Hannity were: commitment to the black community, commitment to the black family, adherence to the black work ethic.
Interesting.
When conservatives get on black people to do more about the welfare queens in their communities, that's considered tough love. When a black pastor encourages the same, that's separatist. Unless Cosby says it -- then it's tough love again. Now, the website did, according to Hannity, say something about pledging allegiance to all black leadership which to me is inflammatory 'cause I hate the notion of black leaders. But until Sean Hannity actually gets himself down to Chicago's south side to do some community service and act as a role model for white leadership he better not get down on people of color looking to their own to problem solve.
Wright has said plenty to raise eyebrows. Blaming America for 9/11? Sorry, I'm not down with that. But at the same time I'm always amazed when the establishment -- especially conservatives -- read being pro-black as being anti-white while remaining oblivious to their own bias.
Example? I've written before about attending the first Republican presidential debates of this primary season. They were held last May at the Reagan library in Simi Valley. Fifteen years prior, almost to the day, the city of LA was still in turmoil after a Simi Valley jury acquitted four white cops in the beating of Rodney King. And Reagan? Let's not forget, when Reagan launched his 1980 presidential bid he did so in Philadelphia, Mississippi. A place previously made famous as the location where three Civil Rights activists were murdered in the 1960s.
The Republican Party could not at that moment have been more anti-black if they'd done their debate as a minstrel show.
So, Obama's cut ties with Wright. Good. Same as it's good that Clintons cut ties with Ferraro. But after skipping debates sponsored by blacks and Hispanics, after kicking off their primaries amid racial overtones...after Katrina for God's sake, the Right is going to have to do a whole lot more to prove that Wright is wrong. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/how-wrong-is-wright_b_91991.html
SWINE: "Barack, who is campaigning in PA today, isn't answering questions about Jeremiah Wright. Typical liberal way of making an issue go away...."I'm not going to talk about it."
Chicago Tribune:
"MONACA, Pa — Barack Obama avoided questions on the teachings of his long-time pastor in a press conference here, promising to address racially tinged comments made by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright in a speech on race in America Obama plans to deliver Tuesday in Philadelphia.
In addition, Obama made himself available for 90 minutes to the Sun-Times editorial board on Friday to specifically address questions about Rezko and Wright. Four members of that board have their takes linked here.
He also submitted to questioning over the matter by Major Garret.
Your reading comprehension suffers from flaws just like you moniker-choosing did.
He has already explained a lot. He does not have to come up with a position on this subject.
Somebody who is clearly voting for John McCain is calling someone else a flip-flopper? Hmmmmm....
SW, what sacrifices, assuming you are too old for military service, what are you doing to make sure my generation isn't in a ridiculous amount of debt because of this war. What is your proposed exit strategy? What do you think McCain will do more effectively than Bush?
Typical liberal way of making an issue go away...."I'm not going to talk about it."
You've described the typical conservative way of dealing with things. Obama will address the topic of race shortly but it will probably be lost on a partisan hack like you.
That Barack Hussein Obama has been listening to this man spew this hate speech for 20 years and HE KNOWS IT. He is tip-toeing around the subject today while his "image consultants" decide what he's going to say and how he's going to say it to minimize the damage to his campaign. They are feverishly trying to calculate the possibility of some other patron of that church coming forward with the story of Jeremiah Wright preaching racist hate consistently for the past 20 years. He will make his speech, of course, never DENYING that he heard those sermons, but most certainly that he doesn't agree with the statements. To that I say, too late, my friend.
Imagine John McCain attending a church in which the pastor says:
"I am sick of negroes that just don't get it." Don't you think that would be a big deal? Of course it would, morons, don't even try to tell me different.
Bottom line. Whatever Obama says in his carefully worded speech tomorrow, it's 20 years too late.
McCain could attend Wright's church every Sunday for all I care. None of my business.
If you mean would it be a big deal to the media, then I'd say no as well. They are completely ignoring his enthusiastic embrace of fundy loonies Hagee and Parsley, I doubt they'd ask him any questions about Wright.
Just think if McCain actively participated in rallies with a man who advocated that Christians go to war with Islam or that God steered hurricanes to centers of sin. Just think if he had the ability to know those things and still picked him.
Do you agree with the political views of your preacher? All of them?
"Barack, who is campaigning in PA today, isn't answering questions about Jeremiah Wright."
-SS
Wow, I can't believe he isn't going to comment on it. You know, except here. And in a speech in Pittsburgh specifically about the issues of race and his religion, tomorrow.
But of course, when your side was doing it, it was okay. That's classic IOKIYAR.
Next time, stay in the realm of fact.
"Barack, who is campaigning in PA today, isn't answering questions about Jeremiah Wright."
Are you saying that's not a fact? Don't you realize the difference between a speech and a press conference? Stay within the realm of reality, my friend.
Oh, my bad, He's not answering questions about it right now. Well that totally changes everything. I mean, really, he's going to frame it on his terms like any smart politician would do? That's just blasphemous.
You would have a point, except that he HAS answered questions on it. He's participated in interviews already about this very subject.
Really, we know you wouldn't have voted for him anyway, so why are you so hell-bent on lying about him?
Next time you think you have a point, second guess yourself. It'd do us all a world of good.
Oh, and you still didn't address the point that YOUR SIDE DOES IT ALL THE TIME.
Falwell, Robertson, Parsley, Hagee...they have all said blasphemous things against our country.
Is it because Wright is black? Is that what has you so upset? I doubt you got all up in arms when any of the above-mentioned white preachers said such things. Maybe you should
Maybe it's because they are Righties, and Republicans. So IOKIYAR. Gotcha.
Really, if you do not have the same level of outrage for their comments as you do for Wright's, you are a tool.
OK, really quick survey......
Does anyone believe that Barack Obama has NEVER heard Jeremiah Wright make anti-white, anti-American, racially-charged statements in the 20 years that he attended the Trinity Church?
Yes or No.
I'll guess no.
Swine, I hope someday you understand that telling the truth about something is not necessarily "anti-" whatever that thing is.It's like being honest and straightforwar with your children or spouse if they're screwing up.
I don't think the government developed the AIDS virus to decimate black people.I probably don't agree with the Rev. Wright regarding the extent of drugs introduced via the gov.
But most of what's being hammered into your head by the media as "anti-American, anti-white and racially charged" is just propaganda aimed at pansies like you who find reality too frightening to deal with.
You should print out your earlier post about Captain America and the magical wonderland of Iraq and save it. Then read it when you're old, about to die and have bigger fears.You might be amazed and a little embarrassed at what a cowardly sucker you you used to be.
I'll say yes, Obama has heard such rhetoric used before at Trinity.
However, riddle me this: how many services at black urban churches have you attended?
For me, the number is between 8-10 throughout Chicago, and as such, I have news for you - the type of rhetoric used by Wright is not uncommon.
I've heard it elsewhere on several occasions. I'm not excusing Wright's language here, as I do not endorse it. However, if your belief is that Trinity is the only black American church where such language is used, then you are sorely mistaken.
Wow you're really getting worked up over this, aren't you? Meanwhile, most people don't give a crap (unless they work on a cable news channel).
Unlike the oft referenced "uncle" who is a part of a family - people choose where to worship. The leader of a congregation sets the tone for the church. If BO found the message offensive he is free to move to another church, however his decision to stay leads to questions about his own beliefs. He has not yet answered those questions satisfactorily.
If it was discovered that a candidate was studying books on the likes of Castro, Chavez, and Stalin would that not lead to queastions about what they believe?
If it was discovered that a candidate was studying books on the likes of Castro, Chavez, and Stalin would that not lead to queastions about what they believe?- DEMS_SOL
I would consider a candidate that had read those books well read. I don't think we have any cause for concern regarding GWBush in this area, but I'm really looking forward to having a president who has some level of curiosity about the world outside of his own little bubble..
Point taken - however staying in a radical congregation for 20 some odd years, having the radical leader of said congregation as a "spiritual mentor" and a part of your compaign coalition reflects a bit more than "curiosity".
Dem-sol, I'm not religious, so they're all radical to me. ;0)
I get the feeling (and this is based on my complete lack of familiarity with predominantly white churches, let alone black-dominated congregations) that the church is a pretty important center for social issues in the Black community.
We can pretend that white churches don't touch on political or social issues, but of course they do. African-Americans as a group have much less access to networking and connections in the world as compared to white people (talking business, government, social organizations), and so I can understand churchgoing being important not only for the spiritual aspects, but as important for keeping a finger on the pulse of the community represented by that church.
I'd also guess that a wide range of attitudes are expressed in Obama's church, just like any other, depending on the church leader or congregant, and depending on the day.
Another poster made the point that this entire issue is probably not going to affect anybody except those who would never have voted for Obama under any circumstances, and I think that may have some truth to it.I just listened to Obama's speech, and he did a pretty impressive job of addressing the topic. It's not going to sink in with the hysterical ones who can't take reality, but they're not the Americans I've come to count on anyway.
I don't disagree with anything you say above. A candidate of all the people must learn to recognize when they are outside the main stream and perhaps cut off the trouble before it begins. BO apparently had clues this was going to be an issue and could have avoided all this by taking it on offense instead of on defense. Too late now as this will haunt him through election day.
Another poster made the point that this entire issue is probably not going to affect anybody except those who would never have voted for Obama under any circumstances.
I don't believe I agree with this other poster though. BO will need a lot of swing voters - particularly white men if he is to have a chance to win in the general election. This is still a majority Christian nation.
Dems Sol,
It appears that he has not answered these questions to YOUR satisfaction. You are seemingly infusing your own standards and expecting Obama to follow them or he is unsatisfactory. Did Wright give these kind of sermons every Sunday for the last twenty years? I doubt it. Obama says he disagrees with the inflammatroy statements, why is that not good enough?>
Splurgie!
Have you stopped beating your teddybear!
YES or NO!
How do you feel abour Parsely's(SP?) position on Islam? He is afterall John's spiritual advisor.
Michael Marcavage, the director of Christian group Repent America, told his members it was no coincidence that the storm struck New Orleans just days before Southern Decadence, the city's annual gay pride celebration. "We take no joy in the death of innocent people," Marcavage--a former Clinton White House intern--told one reporter. "But we believe that God is in control of the weather. The day Bourbon Street and the French Quarter was flooded was the day that 125,000 homosexuals were going to be celebrating sin in the streets. We're calling it an act of God."
In 1998, televangelist and erstwhile politician Pat Robertson warned the city of Orlando, Fla., that a gay celebration the city hosted would bring the wrath of God--in the form of a hurricane or other disaster--upon the entire city. Celebrating homosexuality "will bring about terrorist bombs, it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor," he predicted.
In 2001, Jerry Falwell blamed gays and lesbians (along with other such "sniners" as feminists, "abortionists," and the American Civil Liberties Union) for the terrorist attacks in New York City. "I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen," he said on Robertson's television show, The 700 Club. Falwell later attempted to clarify his remarks, but he never withdrew them or apologized for making them.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html
News Flash: Reverend Wright’s Christianity isn’t the Right kind.Now that the Right-Wing knows that Senator Obama is likely a Christian (although I'm sure there are those who are reluctant to part with his being a Muslim), maybe it's now time to suggest that Reverend Wright is the wrong kind of Christian leader as opposed to Francis Schaeffer (link above) who was the Right kind of Christian leader for several U.S. presidents.
Seems that it's okay for religious leaders to condemn America, and even call for insurrection, as long as those leaders are the Right kind of Christian leaders.
For instance, condemning America for bigotry and injustice against Blacks and gays is very wrong. No way that could be tolerated. It’s (of course) unpatriotic. It just isn’t Right.
On the other hand, condemning America for the existence of homosexuality and for being like Hitler and like Russia is very Right. Anti-Catholicism is very Right. Racism is very Right.
When it comes to what some Christian preachers preach, there's the Right way or the highway. The Right-Wing is totally hypocritical for its smearing of Reverend Wright and its false claims that Senator Obama is guilty by association. Ironically, the Right-Wing’s hypocrisy contributes to the bigotry and injustice that Reverend Wright is yelling about.For an historical prospective, read http://www.hnn.us/articles/48444.html.
He said it very well........(CASEY: I think he's repudiated that very clearly. If you had any evidence that, in fact, that Senator Obama had embraced those views, we would have seen that in the piece. But the fact that you didn't have any video of Senator Obama embracing those views; in fact, he's repudiated those views, I think it's very clear. I mean, it's interesting to me, you haven't vetted Hillary Clinton's pastor's sermons; you haven't vetted President Bush's pastor's sermons; you haven't vetted John McCain's pastor's sermons. So you're not holding them to that standard, which I think is very interesting.)
...Obama is doing what he said he was doing, he's not pushing the race issue people that don't like him are and trying to make it look like he is.
What's really sad about all this is that the MSM has done such an incredibly irresponsible job of reporting anything substantive about any candidate. And MMFA is as much a part of that problem as the media. This issue has 'legs,' and it is probably too late for Obama's campaign to defuse it.
I don't know if the original author of the Church attending piece was lying or not. But what I do know is that the clips that are being shown 'ad nauseum' (to quote one of the lefties on this site) are from a group of videos the Church sells as a kind of 'greatest hits' of Wright.
If Obama were what he says he is, he would never have exposed his children to Wright, at least not twice.
Media Matters has stuck to it's mission statement and hasn't touched this story until today. They don't break or print news stories - They report "conservative misinformation" in the media. This is misinformation - even Kristol printed a retraction this afternoon. But as usual for the blowhard - the damage of his lie is already done.
I am a white guy raised in northern Ohio addressing this to anyone who is of the Fox News mindset (expecially ringleader Sean Hannity) and any posters here who are jumping on their trash Obama – guilt by association bandwagon.
I was a teenager in the 60’s. If you were born after that time, you have no idea of the social and political atmosphere in America other than what your daddy tells you or what you might have read in a book or seen in a movie. Do you have any idea of the tone of some of Martin Luther King’s sermons and speeches? The right-wing southern “Christians” HATED this guy – he was stirring up the status quo. Yet, today many of these same phony Christians are using some of his inspirational quotes and profess him to be a great American (publically at least).
Rev. Wright is from this same generation and it should be no surprise to anyone that he still holds the passion of that era. The quotes that offend Hannity the most are taken out of content with only one intent – to ruin the candidacy of Barrack Obama. Do you really think most Obama supporters see this as anything other than what it is?
In many ways I am glad this Rev. Wright flap has surfaced. It is forcing America to revisit the racial discussions of the 60’s and rethink the progress we have made since. The same group of people who fought against racial equality in the 60’s (Hannity types) are still as disgusted with the thought of “black power” as they were then. Back then I used to hear comments all the time such as “<n-word>s should just shut up and do what they’re told” and “if they don’t like it they can go back to Africa”.
This kind of talk might not be in the forefront of the minds of many white Americans today. Even I have a problem reminding myself of how I used to hear this kind of talk from even members of my own family. It’s not something that we like to talk about much anymore as we would rather leave those memories behind us.
But I’m sure it is still on the minds of blacks who lived through it and it is no surprise to me that a preacher – preaching to a black audience – would continue to remind his congregation with examples of the inequality that still exists – especially a preacher who was in King’s circle in the 60’s. Rev. Wright might not always choose words that are literally 100% true (nothing that GW Bush hasn’t ever done?) – but his message rings true today – that blacks can only claim a partial victory since the 60’s. It’s this message that inspires blacks to continue the fight and I can understand how anyone of African-American descent, including Obama, would find comfort and strength in his church.
A few 30 second soundbites from a half dozen sermons over 30 years, does not mean this man’s whole ministry is about hating whitey. GET A LIFE SEAN! Everyone knows who the racist really is here.
What this whole flap over Rev. Wright will do is force white America to take a long look in the mirror. Of course folks like Hannity will turn their face the second they see their reflection because they REFUSE to see the evil in their ways or even accept the reality of the tone of a few of Rev. Wright’s sermons. Face it - Hannity just doesn’t like black men speaking out against the status quo. Only those who truly want to own up to the plight of blacks and accept the fact that their skin color alone affords them many privileges in America will be able to look deep into their own eyes and realize it is time to accept the bitterness that most blacks hold as a valid, understandable, and normal fact of life in the good old USA.
BTW – I suppose Oprah is washed up now too, as she attends the same church?
I agree. And thanks for your point of view.
If anything, I think all this right-wing media noise over Wright may be good for Obama, as it is a sample of the type of crap he'll have to deal with as the Democratic candidate this fall.
Better he deal with it now than in October.
Nice post, Clevenative.I'm a white guy, born in the early 60s and raised in souther California, L.A. and Orange County. I still remember what was acceptable conversation when I was a kid among all-white groups. I didn't hear it in my family, but in other situations I heard some things that were pretty confusing to me as a kid. "Don't use that word that Mr. Wilson used!" (but everybody was laughing, what was wrong with that?)
Although there's always some damage when these issues come up )like, for example, to Obama's campaign) I'm glad they come up if for no other reason than what is exposed.
Check out the excitement in Sean Hannity's voice as he reads, night after night, the list of out of context remarks by Rev. Wright. You can almost hear him thinking "Hey, this guys saying stuff about white people! Now can I say what I really think about Black people?"
Check out the fear/excitement/hysteria/anger in some of the posters here, having their fantasies about the contented submissive black man blown apart. A lot of stuff is comng into the light that's been shoved in the corner when polite company is visiting
Not to put it all in a racism frame, the media and the GOP is working the unpatriotic, anti-American angle just as hard.The machine runs on fear, and it's running pretty hard right now. I've been mocked a little here for being overly optimistic about my fellow Americans, when I've said that I have faith in their collective intelligence that this BS will pass. I'm trying to keep that faith, even in the face of seeing a lot of the bedwetters and pinhead Pollyannas having their thin shells of rationality blown off.
I guess we'll see what Americans are really made of over the next few months.
While I cannot ignore the negative consequences of this issue, I am still confident that Obama can win the general election simply because the vast majority of voters who are repulsed by an Obama-Wright connection are voters who would have never voted for him anyhow.
Your point about Hannity’s glee is one that I too think about often. Hannity might be handsome and articulate – but he is sorely lacking in grey matter. As “fair and balanced” as he purports himself to be, he simply cannot hide his condescending attitude whenever he is speaking about an issue for which he is not being either. At least when someone like Karl Rove or Bill Kristol spouts a spin or lie, they can do it convincingly. By devoting so much attention to this issue, Fox News has only hurt themselves by exposing just how blatant their label as a Republican Propaganda Machine has become. As a legitimate news source, they have gone from questionable to laughable.
There are two things that are really turning off voters to the Republican agenda. One is the war in Iraq and the other is their fear-mongering and disgusting smear tactics used in campaigns – Yet they continue to simply ignore these facts and go on with business as usual (more war, more dirty politics). Most Americans are on to their little games and they will see in November just how much their campaign of fear and hate has severed them from all thinking Americans.
Once the general election campaign begins, McCain will be reduced to the babbling puppet he is. He simply cannot hold a candle to such a level-headed, inspirational, intelligent, charismatic candidate like Obama. McCain is nothing more than Bush III – and this is NOT what this country wants, or needs.
Check out the excitement in Sean Hannity's voice as he reads, night after night, the list of out of context remarks by Rev. Wright. You can almost hear him thinking "Hey, this guys saying stuff about white people! Now can I say what I really think about Black people?"
Not having listened to Hannity, it appears to me the right is parading this around not so they can espose more biggotry, but because the left has been sanctimonious on race for so long that when it comes out of their mouths it becomes an example of leftest hypocrisy.
I am grateful to your parents' generation for waking us up.
Rumor has it (and I reiterate, it's just a rumor) that camp clinton has video of obama swaying and clapping in Trininty with this type of racist sermon going on. When will they spring that on us?
Popcorn poping and cold beer in hand waiting!
Until today I have never before seen the very origin of a rumor.
Until today, when I read Hogprint's post.
BO never heard any of Rev Wrights racial rants. It was well known throughout the parsonage that Wright had two sermons prepared every Sunday. If BO was in attendence Rev Wright would deliver a "Jesus loves all and wants to unite the world" sermon. When BO was absent the Rev would launch into his "I hate Crackers and America is BAD" racist biggotry preaching. We can not expect BO to know that Wright was wrong or what was going on behind his back. A future POTUS would never have to deal with anything like this because world leaders and congressmen are always upfront and honest about who they are.
There's nothing wrong with them - that's why BO is embracing those comments every chance he gets.
Here's a quiz, which party had a rally where the song "Why Should God Bless America?" was sung?
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2007/09/why_should_god_bless_america.html
Here's another: What side had a minister who advocated for this:
"If there is a legitimate reason for the use of force [against the US government]... then at a certain point force is justifiable."
Who made this statement:
"Every Sunday thousands of _____ wing_______preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits."
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/17/wright/index.html
Much has been said about Wright's 9/11 statements, what do you think about those made by Inhofe:
http://www.alternet.org/story/12909/
Bush and McCain seem to have close relationships with Pat Robertson and the late Reverend Jerry Falwell who blamed America for 9/11, why do they get a pass?
What about the Evangelicals warmongers who support the Republican agenda?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/washington/14israel.html?ex=1321160400&en=60ed9b6dede3816e&ei=5090
If Wright wants social change in this country, his methods can be criticized, but why is his message scarier than those who want war? Why, if Wright criticizes the country's sins of racism is that scary, but the countless preachers who rail on about abortion and gay marriage are not?
Because it is common knowledge that the right are racist, sexest, bigots, homophpbes and generally intolerant of anyone besides their own kind.
When it comes from our side we are exposing what we have been able to successfully keep in the closet for all these years.
I did see them - they are trying to justify Wright's ideas as they are from a black man addressing a black cause - in effect saying that Wright can''t be a racist because he is fighting against racism. No point could be further from the truth. It is a hypocritical position that does nothing but embolden the right which is what my sarcastic post above referred to.
The right will embrace a black (Clarence Thomas), a woman (Condleza Rice), etc. as long as they hold a like minded political view. As a political belief is chosen and not genetic it is not racist.
I think you missed the point. It isn't that racism is justified, it's that Wright's anger is justified. A black man who grew up through the period that Wright did and saw the things he saw has a right to be angry, and a little bitter. I don't agree with what he said, I think his positions are wrong, but he has a right to be angry. And the just the fact that his comments have given rise to this much controversy shows that he isn't totally wrong in some of his ideas about how much racism still exists today.
actually, it's the left that is truly bigoted.
as a note, I played golf with a fellow of some renown in medical circles who recently relocated from chicago to l.a. he said he knows obama well. he has been to parties with him, played basketball, etc. he says obama is very charming, just happens to be a pathological liar.
The left is the party of bigots? Please enlighten me as to how that is.
Nonbearing,
Explain yourself. How is the Left bigoted? Are we looking to deprive people of rights that only straight people currently enjoy? Elaborate.
And since your friend has first-hand knowledge of Obama, he should come forward. After all, if he is honest, he needs to do his patriotic duty and expose him, doesn't he?
I did not say he was a friend. I just happened to be paired with him, though I knew of him by reputation. I hadn't seen him before, and haven't seen him since we had drinks after our round. He should come forward, but doubt I have any influence over him.
As for bigots on the left, people who believe in the 2nd amendment, don't buy the sop on global warming, don't believe in evolution, etc., are routinely shunned and demonized by the left. no where more so than in academic institutions where if you don't toe the party line your career is truly endangered.
Hey Colonel, its that Forrest Gump guy again, he got a new ID! Remember him?
i visited the nixon library but did not see any bats. there was a miniature of the whitehouse on display. it's quite a bit of workmanship and tours the u.s. constantly. http://www.nbm.org/Exhibits/past/2000_1996/The_White_House_Zweifel.html
i fail to understand mary's point. i was merely responding to the mention of george wallace. i didn't shake his hand, didn't speak to him, just listened and then went on my way.
Actually it is the rightwing that is TRULY STUPID. A lot like YOU. Truly ignorant. Its a fact because I SAID SO.
A SUNDAY IN JULY (OR SENATOR OBAMA WOULD LIKE FOR THIS STORY TO GO AWAY AS WELL)
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803170005?f=h_latest
In a March 17 discussion thread on the conservative website FreeRepublic, someone who claimed to be the author of the August 9, 2007, Newsmax article defended the piece, claiming: "I did see Barack Obama that day. I said so in the article, and I'm saying so now." The poster, Philo1962, wrote further: "Now, after everyone's memory has faded, my notes have been taken to some landfill and there has been plenty of time to doctor the videos and the websites, the Obama campaign tries to deny he was there?"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1987082/posts?q=1&;page=101
(Clarification:)Obama Attended Hate America Sermon
Posted by Philo1962 to deport; jveritas; GraniteStateConservative; weegee; potlatch; devolve; sirchtruth; Lancey Howard; ..
On News/Activism 03/18/2008 3:56:05 AM PDT · 121 of 127
If I had tried to get a camera inside that church, I would have been thrown out. I was lucky to smuggle in a little notepad in my pocket. As you might imagine, I have had a lot of phone calls lately. People want me on their radio talk shows and I got a call from one of Bill Kristol’s staff members at the Weekly Standard.
Here are the facts.
The early morning service started at 7:15 AM. It happened as I described it in the Newsmax article. The listing on the church website has the early morning and evening speakers switched around. It was Jeremiah Wright in the morning, not Anthony Burnette. And it was Burnette in the evening, not Wright.
They hustled Obama out the door at 8:15 AM. With a police escort and cross traffic blocked at every stop light, it’s no problem getting to Midway Airport in 20 minutes. The private jet was undoubtedly waiting with engines running. Presidential candidates don’t stand in line at the airport like the rest of us.
The Obama campaign has confirmed that Obama’s plane was wheels up and flying out of Chicago at 8:50 AM. At 550 MPH it’s just over two hours to Miami. Let’s call it three for the sake of argument.
This link confirms that Obama arrived 20 minutes late, at 1:50 PM Miami time (12:50 PM Chicago time).
http://www.hispanicmpr.com/2007/07/31/clinton-obama-appearances-highlight-of-2007-nclr-conference/
Do the math, everybody. You have every right to ask these questions. Now I’ve answered them. If that isn’t enough, take a hike.
Rose,
Your post is very interesting especially when you consider:
In this column, I cite a report that Sen. Obama had attended services at Trinity Church on July 22, 2007. The Obama campaign has provided information showing that Senator Obama did not attend Trinity that day. I regret the error.
Guess who said that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/17/opinion/17kristol.html?scp=1&sq=kristol+and+kessler&st=nyt
Here's another one:
For his part, Kessler at Newsmax admits today that his source now has fallen away from his specific July 22 claim, saying, "he attended several services at Senator Obama's church during the month of July, including July 22," and can no longer be certain of which date he has written about.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003726581
"Now, after everyone's memory has faded, my notes have been taken to some landfill and there has been plenty of time to doctor the videos and the websites, the Obama campaign tries to deny he was there?"
Yes, it's all a big conspiracy...
(3/18/08) UPDATE:
As I told Mary59 yesterday, the lies will catch up to the liars. Here's how it happened today (and I quote):
"Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely -- just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed."
Flash back to Friday:
"None of these statements were ones that I had heard myself personally in the pews."
And one of the final questions Major Garrett asked Barack Obama was, "If you had heard any of those things would you have quit the church?" And he said, "Absolutely, I would have quit the church."
Barack Hussein Obama (D-IL) is a flat-out, bold-faced LIAR.
No, NB, that would be you!
In his interview with Major Garrett on March 14, 2008, Obama said:
"I think that the statements [of Rev. Wright] that have been strung together are compiled out of hundreds of sermons that he delivered over the course his lifetime. But, obviously, they are ones that are, from my perspective, completely unacceptable and inexcusable.
And if I had thought that was the tenor or tone on an ongoing basis of his sermons, then yes, I don't think that it would've been reflective of my values or my faith experience.
...I would've quit [the church]."
Obama: You know, I guess, keep in mind that just to provide more context, this is somebody who I'd known for 20 years. Pastor Wright had been a pastor for 30 years. He's an ex-Marine. He is somebody who is a Biblical scholar, has spoken at theological seminaries all across the country from the University of Chicago to Hampton. And so he is a well-regarded preacher, and somebody who is known for talking about the social gospel.
But most of the time when I'm in church, he's talking about Jesus, God, faith, values, caring for the poor, family. Those were the messages that I was hearing. And so, you know, I think that the statements that have been strung together are compiled out of hundreds of sermons that he delivered over the course his lifetime. But, obviously, they are ones that are, from my perspective, completely unacceptable and inexcusable.
And if I had thought that was the tenor or tone on an ongoing basis of his sermons, then yes, I don't think that it would've been reflective of my values or my faith experience.
Shelby Steele writes:
No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites, and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity. His is the story of a man who flew so high, yet neglected to become himself.
btw, oprah left the church because it was too radical.
A NYT article from last year states that Oprah has attended services there and that the church is considered "mainstream."