What speech did he hear? Declaring parts of speech "grating," Buchanan accuses Obama of avoiding issue of personal responsibility
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SUMMARY: MSNBC's Pat Buchanan declared that "parts of" Sen. Barack Obama's speech on race and the controversy surrounding Rev. Jeremiah Wright were "very grating" because of what Buchanan asserted was "the constant sense of putting the burden on the society for what's happened to the African-American community and not enough of the acceptance of their own -- their own responsibility, frankly, for what's happened." However, Obama specifically emphasized during the speech that African-Americans should not become "victims of our past," but must instead "tak[e] full responsibility for our own lives."
On the March 18 edition of MSNBC Live, contributor Pat Buchanan declared that "parts of" a speech given that day by Sen. Barack Obama about race and the controversy surrounding his recently retired pastor, Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, were "very grating" because of what Buchanan asserted was "the constant sense of putting the burden on the society for what's happened to the African-American community and not enough of the acceptance of responsibility of their own -- their own responsibility, frankly, for what's happened." Earlier in the program, when MSNBC host Joe Scarborough said that Obama "went through a list of grievances that Reverend Wright and black America could have with the government and with white America," Buchanan similarly stated: "Joe, you've raised one point there that I think is going to grate a bit. A lot of Americans feel the idea coming from Obama is that somehow the ... larger society, the white community, if you will -- 'You are responsible for our failures. You are responsible for our problems' -- that is not going to sit too well." However, during the speech, Obama specifically emphasized that African-Americans should not become "victims of our past," but must instead "tak[e] full responsibility for our own lives."
From Obama's March 18 speech, delivered in Philadelphia:
OBAMA: [W]orking together, we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact, we have no choice -- we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union. For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances -- for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs -- to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling; the white man who's been laid off; the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for our own lives -- by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism. They must always believe -- they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.
Ironically, this quintessentially American -- and yes, conservative -- notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright's sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.
Moreover, undermining Buchanan's suggestion that "the idea coming from Obama is that somehow the ... larger society, the white community ... 'are responsible for our problems,' " Obama also addressed what he called the "legitimate concerns" of "white Americans" in the speech:
OBAMA: In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience. As far as they're concerned, no one handed them anything. They've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and they feel their dream slipping away. And in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero-sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So, when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear an African-American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced -- resentment builds over time.
Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company, but they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk-show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.
Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle-class squeeze: a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns -- this too widens the racial divide and blocks the path to understanding.
From the 11 a.m. ET hour of the March 18 edition of MSNBC Live:
SCARBOROUGH: Pat Buchanan, what surprised me about this speech, though, is that Barack Obama has not spoken much about race throughout this campaign. He has tried to transcend race. That certainly was not the case today. In fact, he went through a list of grievances that Reverend Wright and black America could have with the government and with white America.
BUCHANAN: Well, you know, I thought it was an excellent speech. He's an extraordinarily good speaker, and it was extremely well-delivered, and so, I think -- and it's going to appeal to an awful lot of folks. But Joe, you've raised one point there that I think is going to grate a bit. A lot of Americans feel the idea coming from Obama is that somehow the gen -- larger society, the white community, if you will -- "You are responsible for our failures. You are responsible for our problems" -- that is not going to sit too well, but his fundamental view, I think you got to judge him very well as a man standing by his friend. What he said, in effect, I think was, "The good that Reverend Wright has done outweighs the evil he has spoken. I am not going to turn my back on my friend."
It was like a defense, frankly, of Minister Farrakhan, who, undoubtedly, the Million Man March is a good thing, turning African-American prisoners and people out of the gutters and things like that, into strong human beings and really real men, has been a good thing. At the same time, you got this message that comes out, which is preaching hate. Now, here's where Barack didn't address it.
He talked about the anger that came from Reverend Wright. But that wasn't anger we saw; that seemed to be the rhetoric of hate. And I think he's tried to lift us all up and away from Reverend Wright onto a higher plane where we can discuss these things. But I think a lot of folks are going to go back and say, "He did not divorce himself from this man. And quite frankly, how could he have sat there, given what he believes and says, for 20 years in a pew and listened to this?" And so, I'm not sure he solved that problem.
[...]
SCARBOROUGH: Pat Buchanan, I am not trying to be cynical here. I am just trying to get to the political impact of it. I think most of us here were inspired by Barack Obama's words, but I was also inspired by Al Gore's speech after he lost the presidency -- but he lost the presidency. How does this speech play with white Americans in Pennsylvania, in Ohio, in Florida, in the swing states -- in areas, quite frankly, Pat Buchanan, that you did very well in?
BUCHANAN: Well, I think this -- I believe the speech will play very well in this sense. He did try to rise above -- certainly above the Reverend Wright material.
SCARBOROUGH: OK. OK.
BUCHANAN: And I think he, Joe -- I think he delivered an outstanding speech, and he did talk about the grievances of white America and the grievances of black America. There are parts of the speech, which, to me, and the community I think I come from, I found very grating, quite frankly. And the constant sense of putting the burden on the society for what's happened to the African-American community and not enough of the acceptance of responsibility of their own -- their own responsibility, frankly, for what's happened.
But overall, I do think he tried to reach, not only above party, but beyond party to the larger community, in a way that might have succeeded. However, his political problem is what follows. I mean, for example, he said, "You know, I have never heard him speak, Reverend Wright, in derogatory terms of any ethnic group."
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Pat, if you'll stop right there -- if you'll stop right there, because I want to play that sound bite.
"Who cares what this Nazi's opinion on anything is?"
Thanks for providing perfect proof of what Obama's problem is. Would you continue watching that show if there was a nazi on it? Would you watch that nazi for 20+ years? Well, a person of good judgement would not attend a church for 20+ years when the message is a racist message. Just like YOU would not watch that nazi for 20+ years!! Do you get it, yet?? The complaint isn't whether Obama is a racist or whether his pastor is a racist, the problem is that Obama doesn't have the good judgement to stop attending a church taught by a racist. And, if he can't figure that out in 20+ years, then he certainly isn't ready to face world leaders he has know for 20 minutes.
"And, if he can't figure that out in 20+ years, then he certainly isn't ready to face world leaders he has know for 20 minutes."
You really think he's an idiot, don't you? Do you actually think, if Reverend Wright's sermons were so racist that it constantly offended the senses, that Obama would have stayed? Just like the 8,000 other Americans who attend this church? Both white and black?
You know what's funny? What Wright said wasn't racist. It was racial, sure. But was it based on stereotypes? Hardly.
I've listened to a few hours of his sermons, and I have to say the vast majority of his message is one of love and understanding.
You confuse racism with reactions to racism.
Why is it so hard for you to believe Obama wrote his own speech. Nobody else but him could have wrote it. Do you also need to be reminded that Obama was President/Editor of the Harvard Law Review?
Also his wife's tears were real. She was not the only one. Everyone with a heart did.
"Obama is a hypocrite. It's either about race or it's not, but in his world it's both, at his convenience. Just like his "religion". "
An atheist whining about hypocrisy...hmmm. But, you don't 'get it' either. Obama isn't a hypocrit and he isn't a racist. He has poor judgement and we already have one president with poor judgement, we don't need another. Obama can try again when he's grown up a little bit.
I don't really follow this logic. So it is okay to be a biggot and to accuse America of creating AIDS and building prisons just because America hates blacks as long as most of what he says is good? Imagine the scorn, deservedly, given to the right wing bible thumpers when they stick their foot in their mouths. But in this situation, with the rhetoric as vile if not more so, we are supposed to ignore it? This logic of thinking is killing the Democratic Party. Obama call's for Imus's head, deservedly, but only this week cuts Wright from his campaign. See the hypocrisy? Or am I totally wrong?
Heru,
Some of us can never understand. I have tried to wrap my brain around it. I am a descendant of people that marched the Trail of Tears but still I cannot understand. For me the issue has never been white, black, brown or yellow. The issue is just green. Do you have it? That is all that matters.
Best of luck to you though.
Heru, If (just if) McCain belonged to Hagee's church and attended on a regular basis, was married by him and had his kids baptized by him. If he claimed to be a friend of Hagee for over 20 years would you expect McCain to know whether Hagee was a racist or not? Now, for the really tough one. You'll probably ignore it like you did earlier...would you expect McCain to have good enough judgement to leave a church pastored by a racist such as Hagee???
My concern is Obama's ability to make good judgement calls. If he's been going to that church for that long and knows the pastor that well then can't see what kind of person his pastor is, he certainly isn't ready to face world leaders who will try to dupe him at every turn. You already complain about one president who has bad judgement, now you say another one is just fine....since he's black!?!
"You really think he's an idiot, don't you? Do you actually think, if Reverend Wright's sermons were so racist that it constantly offended the senses, that Obama would have stayed?"
Yes, and one without good judgement. All derived from the fact that Obama stayed in this church in spite of knowing exactly what Wright spoke about. Is he smart enough to discern Biblical teaching from racist teaching? Apparantly not! Sorry, we already have a Bush in the white house, we don't need another idiot.
"I've listened to a few hours of his sermons, and I have to say the vast majority of his message is one of love and understanding."
'Vast majority' leaves an unknown amount of time that isn't love+understanding. What did he teach then? And, that's only with a few hours of his sermons. Don't worry, you don't need to tell us what he taught while not teaching love+understanding, we ALL already know!!
Yeah - that Pat is such a racist!
Or, as Obama's Pastor would say, "God Damn AmeriKKKa!"
I'm voting for Obama for sure now because, as I see it, America is to blame for inventing the HIV virus and killing black children.
God Bless YOU, Obama - and GOD DAMN AMERIKKKA!
You could vote for McCain. His kissing up to Falwell (who opposed civil rights and supported apartheid) may be right up your alley.
Shelby Steele writes:
No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites, and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity. His is the story of a man who flew so high, yet neglected to become himself.
Don Wycliff on Shelby Steele:
It apparently never occurs to Steele that for a man a generation younger than himself the terms of blackness might be different, that the “totalitarian” demands he encountered in the ’60s might no longer prevail, that Barack Obama’s mixed-race experience might actually be different than Shelby Steele’s.
http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/article.php3?id_article=2170&recalcul=oui
Steele goes too far, but Obama still has a problem.
He didn't condemn Wright strongly enough for those wacky comments, and he has to explain just why it is that he would have a "spiritual advisor" who believes that the CIA deliberately planted AIDS in the ghetto.
Couldn't he find someone else for that role?
If O is the nominee, the repubs will have a field day with this idea alone.
Obama hit the right note. He has clearly stated what he disagrees with. However, he's not going to demonize Wright and distance himself from the Black community.
Characterising Wright as wacky or a scumbag as some of you have done, as if a virulent white racist context never existed, says more about your own ignorance, hatred, and political agenda than that of which you accuse him.
"Characterising Wright as wacky or a scumbag as some of you have done, as if a virulent white racist context never existed, says more about your own ignorance, hatred, and political agenda than that of which you accuse him."
Oh?? You didn't really just say that! How would you describe Pat Robertson or John Hagee or Jerry Falwell?? I assume you don't go to their churches, why is that? Perhaps because you don't believe what they teach? Why else would someone stay in a church that promotes agendas that are un-Biblical? Are you an ignorant hater with a political agenda too?
He didn't condemn Wright strongly enough for those wacky comments, and he has to explain just why it is that he would have a "spiritual advisor" who believes that the CIA deliberately planted AIDS in the ghetto.
Did you listen to or read the actual speech? I don't understand how you can bring this up if you did. The speech is not very good for soundbytes, it was written as a cohesive piece, but here are the two specific topics you ask about:
----
I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.
But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.
As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together
---
There's more, if you really care. I suspect you don't.
No, you have the analogy wrong. Obama went to a "Christian" church. That doesn't mean every Christian church teaches racism, only the ones that are un-Biblical in their teachings. Same is true about the "Catholic" church, not all are pastored by the same person.
However, if a Catholic church did have a pastor that was a pedophile and he taught the virtues of pedophilia and was friends with Obama, I would expect Obama to have enough brains to find another church to attend. One that didn't teach pedophilia. He can still be friends with the guy, if he wants. You can swap the word 'pedophile' with 'racist' to fully understand what is being said. I think one is just as evil as the other.
"who in that day and age had a hot lunch for the third grade" - Nonbearing137
Oh, come on. What about that thermos full of grits you keep nattering on about?
hmm, i don't see shelby steele as a self-hating black man, but you do because he refuses to be a victim.
let's face it, in bo, we got a dmw. just ask susan sarandon.
hmm, i don't see shelby steele as a self-hating black man, but you do because he refuses to be a victim.
He's probably not a self-hating black man. Maybe he hates black people?
This is what we get from the liberals. Any black person who thinks for themselves is a "self-hating" Uncle Tom who should be destroyed. Clarence Thomas, Shelby Steele, Ken Blackwell. Isn't it interesting that the blacks who don't fall for the victimhood B.S. are sucessful?
Actually the blacks who hate black poeple are the Race Hustlers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who have gotten rich on making sure their black brothers and sisters remain poor and aggreived so they and their white-racist Democratic accomplices can ride to the rescue with the latest government program. By the way, Jackson and Sharpton don't see themselves as victims. They simply want their fellow blacks to have that mindset because it empowers them.
Any black person who thinks for themselves is a "self-hating" Uncle Tom who should be destroyed. Clarence Thomas, Shelby Steele, Ken Blackwell. Isn't it interesting that the blacks who don't fall for the victimhood B.S. are sucessful?
They're called Uncle Toms because that's what they are.
BTW - how much have Clarence Thomas, Shelby Steele, or Ken Blackwell done for the black community since they sold out and turned their backs on them?
I live in Ohio, and Blackwell was nothing less than a total failure and a disgrace to his office.
He did everything possible to suppress the minority vote in 2004. How's that for supporting your race?
"TruthSeeker" sounds like a real fossil. He doesn't realize yet that the Rovian game doesn't work anymore...
NOT THIS TIME
" They wait for their marching orders from left-wing politicians and hand over their freedoms and responsibility for their own well-being to their "leaders" "
And, that is called 'freedom of choice'. Wait till you see what their idea of 'freedom of speech' is! You must realize that liberals are not that smart. They don't think for themselves so you must talk to them on a level they can understand. Which, I'm afraid, isn't a very high bar. Most, if not all will immediately disagree with this statement simply because they don't understand what it means. The others will agree but not publically.
While it's fun telling a liberal they are wrong and fully explaining why, it's more fun watching them make fools of themselves trying to contridict what you've told them. It doesn't matter what you tell them, they will always have something negative and opposite to say about what you just said. For instance; I could say; "the sky is blue" and a liberal would counter; "it's cloudy here". The liberal wouldn't even understand that above the clouds is a blue sky.
This topic is perfect for liberals. Obama makes a great speech on race needs in America and every liberal gushes over how marvelous he is, yet they don't understand they are supporting a nominee who is as stupid as the president we already have, because Obama cannot make a simple judgement call on whether someone is a racist or not. Liberals call Bush a moron because his poor judgement, but liberals think Obama is the best thing since butter on bread in spite of his poor judgement. I've made this comment several times and not ONE liberal has been able or attempted to argue it down. Do you know why? Neither do I, I'm guessing liberals are too stupid to know what good judgement is. Either that or they are afraid to have honest conversation on a subject that matters.
Buchanen, "There are parts of the speech, which, to me, and the community I think I come from, I found very grating, quite frankly. And the constant sense of putting the burden on the society for what's happened to the African-American community and not enough of the acceptance of responsibility of their own -- their own responsibility, frankly, for what's happened."
Are the slaves responsible for their slavery? Are they, once freed, responsible for Jim Crowe, the lynchings, and state mandated discrimination?
"let's face it, in bo, we got a dmw. just ask susan sarandon."
I have know idea what your talking about. Something to do with bo. Maybe you need some deoderant.
You have a point-- he didn't repudiate Wright enough-- he should have condemned him.
Also-- this guy is his "spiritual advisor?" a guy who believes the CIA planted AIDS in the ghetto?
It's a nightmare that will return, and return. Obama just lost the national election, at least....he knows it, too.
EDELLA,
Not only that....... but as it pertains to McCain.....
Why does Obama have to make his case about his pastors words....but McCain essentially is getting a free pass as it pertains to Hagee and that other guy that just endorsed McCain while McCain nearly kisses them on the lips for their 'kind' words?
Is it because Obama happens to be black and McCain isn't??
I mean...please.....why the double standard?
Shouldn't McCain perhaps do the same?
Did McCain attend his church for 20 years? There is one thing to have someone say that like you and it is another to choose to spend two decades in their company.
Perhaps that is the difference?
CAPTFOSTER..it's really very simple...
Hagee IS NOT John McCain's pastor. Anybody is free to go to listen to McCain's pastor speak and be critical of it.
Yesterday on the ever fair-minded KDKA in Pgh., the talk shows were discussing Sen. Obamas' speech and his connection with Rev. Wright. Sounds fair...BUT you were only permitted to talked about Obama and Wright...No Hagee, No Parsley, No TEVangelists..only what the host wanted. Never been one for the Fairness Doctrine but now, bring it back.
Hagee and Parsley sound like two ingredients they put in the Con KoolAid. And they must taste good for the Cons..this instill hatred and bigotry.
KDKA 3:00pm--5:00 an idiot named Honsberger...self-described independent.
Hey Carlileb, in the spirit of March Madness...
SCOREBOARD!
(Go Heels!)
obama dead man walking
--------------------------------------------------
Sounds like a threat to me.
Individuals like you is the reason this country is in the situation it is in today. I am 55 years old, grew up in the South during the turbelent 60's and saw many injustices.
The problem I have with this issue is that many of you are willing to stick you head in the sand and pretend that we as a country have never had racial problems or will admit that we continue to have these problems today. It is obvious by the posts.
I served my country, military veteran, bachelor degree, masters degree and still face some of the same issues today that I faced as a young man growing up in the South thirty years.
In my adult life I cannot recall any politician openly talking about the racial problems we face; race have been as a devisive issue used by politicans to fire up their base qne create doubt about their opponent.
It is amazing that we forget that we have a war going, the escalating food and enetgy costs, foreclosures, runaway deficit, on the brink of a recession and an inept administration has Bushwacked the country for 8 years, and we focus our attention on what some minister says. The media have been the driving force behind this story.
Since Pat Buchannan is on TV and suppose to be credible; should his views, and membership in organizaations be vetted as well. Asking Mr. Buchannan to comment on race is like asking the rat to watch the cheese! I live in this world and it is real; Black man, white spouse, we get unflattering comments from all sides. My person preference for president is Mr. Bloomberg who I pray will change his mind and enter the race.
"The problem I have with this issue is that many of you are willing to stick you head in the sand and pretend that we as a country have never had racial problems or will admit that we continue to have these problems today. It is obvious by the posts."
Mr Clewill, I have not made the 'usual' post on this subject, you can read all of them. My concern is that Obama didn't use good judgement while continueing to attend the church which was run by a pastor who had some very un-Biblical opinions that he taught to his congregation. I think Obama did a good job expressing his distaste for racism in America and the remarks told by his freind and pastor. However, I don't understand why someone would continue attending a church whose pastor continually preached un-Biblical subjects as Biblical facts. Would that be good judgement?
I fully appreciate what you said and I thank you for the service to your country, I am curious to know if my stance on this subject is a viable one within the constraints of your opinion.
Individuals like you is the reason this country is in the situation it is in today. I am 55 years old, grew up in the South during the turbelent 60's and saw many injustices.
The problem I have with this issue is that many of you are willing to stick you head in the sand and pretend that we as a country have never had racial problems or will admit that we continue to have these problems today. It is obvious by the posts.
I served my country, military veteran, bachelor degree, masters degree and still face some of the same issues today that I faced as a young man growing up in the South thirty years.
In my adult life I cannot recall any politician openly talking about the racial problems we face; race have been as a devisive issue used by politicans to fire up their base qne create doubt about their opponent.
It is amazing that we forget that we have a war going, the escalating food and enetgy costs, foreclosures, runaway deficit, on the brink of a recession and an inept administration has Bushwacked the country for 8 years, and we focus our attention on what some minister says. The media have been the driving force behind this story.
Since Pat Buchannan is on TV and suppose to be credible; should his views, and membership in organizaations be vetted as well. Asking Mr. Buchannan to comment on race is like asking the rat to watch the cheese! I live in this world and it is real; Black man, white spouse, we get unflattering comments from all sides. My person preference for president is Mr. Bloomberg who I pray will change his mind and enter the race.
Don Wycliff writes:
"Steele sounds in [A Bound Man] like a man whose head is full of a music that he alone can hear. It never did become clear to me what he means by the term “a bound man.” But it certainly seems that if anyone is bound, it is Steele himself. He is bound to a set of ideas and theories that he formulated in reaction to his experiences in the 1960s. They once sounded like wisdom, but today they tinkle suspiciously like the bells on a fool’s cap."
The Civil rights act wasn't passed until 1964. So YES, life IS different now.
BTW, If Nonbearing wants to play the game of posting quotes from critics, he should expect to see quotes from critics of his critics in response.
LOL! Wow, citing Shelby Steele, a po' man's Thomas Sowell? Please! Most of his points—much like Sowell’s—are rehashed Booker T. Washington's victim-blaming-free-market-social-Darwinist conservatism. History has not been too kind to Washington and his pandering and cowing to elites who used their power to oppress blacks as second-class citizens during Reconstruction. As with Sowell, Steele, [Walter] Williams, McWhorters and others, conservatives used Washington as a way to mask their bigotry against minorities and legitimatize their regressive domestic policies. It didn’t work with Washington and it’s not going to work with the likes of Steele, Sowell, Williams, Elder, McWhorters, etc. The only thing that’s different now than back in Washington’s time is that conservatives have more willing blacks they can exploit to promote their draconian policies against the poor, particularly minorities.
Not to mention that Steele's interview with Moyers a few months back proved, without a doubt, that he's a piss-poor intellectual. If I had a way to link Adolph Reed, Jr's take on Steele's first book, the mediocre "The Content of Our Character," I would since Reed thoroughly scrutinized and discredited many of Steele's crackpot theories on race and class. It's no surprise that people like Ann Coulter, George Will, Bill Bennett, William Kristol, Glenn Beck, etc., often cite Steele as a credible source.
Sorry there is a LOT more difference now. There are a LOT of grandmothers/fathers with black/white grandchildren. People that were once prejudiced, but have had a change of heart when it hits them at home. Its so easy to love a grandchild regardless of their skin color.
I hope Obama makes it to presidency, so MY grandchildren will KNOW they have the same chance to be president too. This country needs to put the color of peoples skin away as a reason for hate.
Face it, this country is going to have a mixed president if not this time then some time in the future.
Obama is not JUST a black man, he is the product of both white and black!! Course, not to much is being said about that. His skin color is black, he is a black man right?
Further we all have friends we do not agree with all the time, in fact, I would venture to say that some of our friends say some pretty silly and mind befuddling things that we just think, Huh? Where did that come from?
I'm glad Obama did not deny Wright as his friend, just denied what Wright said/believed. I'm sick of people "distancing" themselves from people they have know for years for comments they made. Obama did not make them....has never been quoted as making such statements.
I have never seen so many stupid people in America.
I have never seen so many stupid people in America
AMEN!
1;"This country needs to put the color of peoples skin away as a reason for hate." 2;"Face it, this country is going to have a mixed president if not this time then some time in the future." 3;"Obama is not JUST a black man, he is the product of both white and black!! " 4;"I'm glad Obama did not deny Wright as his friend, just denied what Wright said/believed." 5;"I'm sick of people "distancing" themselves from people they have know for years for comments they made."
We all are sick of racism! But, that isn't the subject. The subject is whether Obama has good enough judgement to stop going to the school that teaches hatred and racism. The subject is will Obama have poor judgement or good judgement as president of the US. So far, he has shown poor judgement... twice (in a matter of days). Once by continueing to attend the church even though he knew what was being taught by the pastor and again by ignoring his responsibility to own up to his poor judgement. Sure, his speech on racism needed to be said and hopefully will accomplish all that he intended it to do, but he didn't address his poor judgement. When that happens then we'll have accomplished what is needed for him to be president. He doesn't need to be president simply because he is black and neither does anyone else. They need to have good judgement to be president.
I fully agree that Obama can have who ever he wants for his friend, but when that friend starts teaching racism in class I would expect Obama to walk out of that class. Wouldn't you?
Well, in the first place Jeremiah A. Wright has retired as Senior Pastor of Trinity UCC. So how is he going to be Barack Obama's spiritual advisor in the White House?
In the second place, do you have to agree with every word your minister, priest, imam, or rabbi says? That is one characteristic of narrow-minded fundamentalist thinking.
I am a Unitarian Universalist which is one of the two denominations which developed out of New England Puritanism. The other is now part of the United Church of Christ. Once we shook off the rigidity of Puritanism both denominations have emphasized the responsibility of all members to think for themselves.
Good point, SgtCedar. I think most of the fainting about Wright is from a small but loud minority made up of two basic groups; The not-quite-overt racists who were just barely keeping their fears in check, and the extreme fringes of the Christian Right, whose faith isn't known for it's respect for individual thought. Seems like it's the second group that can't quite grasp somebody having disagreements with their clergyman.
And, with all due respect for your faith and everyone else's, I don't hear anyone reacting to this whole subject from the perspective of the non-religious minority. We have to watch people of different denominations and religions criticizing one another for saying things from the pulpit that may not be historically accurate or provable as fact.Imagine how weird that is from over here! ;0)
BTW, has anyone seen my pet rabbit, she's very special to me, she lays eggs. She's almost as special as this guy I saw (OK, I didn't see him personally but I gleaned it from some factually challenged accounts) rise from the grave. In fact I think this Sunday is the somewhat random anniversary of some sort resulting from that occurrence. Or maybe it's just Spring and the whole rejuvenation of nature thing.
Sorry, I couldn't help it.
Don't fail me now HRC!! You have my vote.
I see you're part of the "uneducated" vote. Even a braindead moron would not try yo compare Obama to the Grand Wizard of the Ku Ku Klan. Stop embarassing yourself.
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He should have "disowned" him. The condemnation was not strong enough. Just like David Duke should have condemned and disowned the KKK, Obama should condemn and disown Wright AND the entire church. That church seems to have a big problem with white people and Israel.
"I see you're part of the "uneducated" vote. "
Well then, educate us!!! Maybe you and mr sanders can work together on this one. Do you people (liberals) like president Bush? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess...NO. Do you people think Bush has good judgement? (Again, on that limb...NO). Now, how the heck are we supposed to support another candidate who has poor judgement?? Take your time and explain how the poor judgement of Obama would be better than the poor judgement of Bush. You want to trade our current moron for an idiot who can't even figure out someone is a racist after 20 years of knowing the guy. But, that isn't the point... the point is Obama has the ability to walk out of that church when he discovers that it is being taught by a racist, but did not. He chose to stay and be taught by this racist. IMO that is poor judgement. And judgement to differentiate between good and evil could be an important aspect of the presidency.
I don't expect to hear ANYTHING from either of you on his judgemental ability. Neither of you have said a peep so far and neither will address it now. Sanders won't because he's chickenman, heru won't because he is just like wright (I've gone back and read many of your past posts). Hypocrits!!!
Wow...and the fact that a respectable minority of white people attend this church means nothing to you? It's obvious you didn't hear the speech, or you would have heard about Obama's white grandmother.
Really, a problem with Whites? Perhaps the politics of race relations is a little too nuanced for you.
This will show the DNC that he is incapable of being a leader and uniting blacks and white. Afterall, how can you unite the too if you consistently are grating in your speeches?
LOL
You think Hillary has a snowballs chance in h*ll of convincing black folks to vote for her after the campaign she's ran? Oh yeah, let the DNC brass choose her that will really help her. LOL
Agreed Pearlene. I'm not worried about whether or not Barack gets the nomination anymore. He showed what true character is with the speech and his refusal to paint this pastor, who he respects, in a negative light. Hannity has his racist counry singer friend who's made disparaging comments about Barack and Hillary, but that's ok, right?
Anyway, back to my point. Hillary and her husband must really think black people are idiots. She can show up to all the Delta and AKA sororities she wants, it won't take away from how her campaign was received in the black community. Furthermore, each candidate had an opportunity to take the chance Barack did yesterday and both Clinton and McCain dodged issue. Barack doesn't have anything to worry about as his political influence has been solidified. These conservatives that want to make him out to be a "bad guy" will have to contend with him in the future.
I don't think there are enough White voters yet willing to vote for a Black man unless he unequivocally says and believes that the racial issues (slavery, segregation) did not have a long term detrimental impact on segments of the Black community.
Your claim is absurd ! I would LOVE to vote for a black CANDIDATE (not just a "man"), but I'm not going to vote for one who is half-black and turns on the black when he's in front of a black audience and turns on the white or black to suit his purpose, and who waffles back and forth between playing the race card and falsely accusing others of doing the same thing. To me, Obama is one big smooth-talking hypocrite who is abusing blacks the same way that GW Bush abused the evangelicals, all to get elected.
Obama's a good speech reader and clearly an intelligent man. But is he suitable to be President ? I think not. Maybe he should start his own scammy church, then he can orate to his heart's content.
Atheist,
I have said on this board umpteen times that people should vote for whomever they want to, and you will do just that because you decided a long time ago that the most important attribute in a candidate is gender. That's your right and I won’t poo-poo it as you do other people’s choices and beliefs. I will vote for Obama if he is the nominee who I feel at this point probably will not be because he can't get enough of White votes to get through the general election. People have looked hard and long to find something to discredit him although people like you never gave him any in credit for anything in the first place. Well they now have the smoking sermon from his pastor and it’s over. I will exercise my judgment as absurd as you think it is and sit this election out. BTW, you think anyone who disagrees with you is absurd. It must be quite a burden to have all the answers all the time; but anyway you vote for Hilary and maybe she can get enough votes to get her through the general. Who really knows? Anyway I won't be casting a vote for her. So hopefully there won’t be too many of mes out there.Lynn, I think you are wrong. Obama has plenty of white votes, and every day garners more. Obama is a Statesman, not a politician and white and black and latino and etc...we all want that!
We have had enough of politicians screwing us left and right every chance they get.
I am hoping Obama is going to be the one that is different.
Your claim is absurd ! I would LOVE to vote for a black CANDIDATE (not just a "man"), but I'm not going to vote for one who is half-black and turns on the black when he's in front of a black audience and turns on the white or black to suit his purpose, and who waffles back and forth between playing the race card and falsely accusing others of doing the same thing.
Half Black? Half Black?
Newsflash WE ARE ALL HALF SOMETHING! thanks to slavery! STOP that half Black whine you do it's makes you appear ignorant about black folks while trying to criticize them.
There is a tide in the affairs of men, when taken at the flood, lead on to fortune, as Shakespeare says. It feels that Obama has seized the historic moment and if the country is mature enough to elect him, our country will be fortunate indeed.
I do think that she has the ability and talent to be a good prez, but her personal ambition has compromised her integrity. It's sad to see it.
Mary well said and so true. I didn't start out disliking Hillary. I was never a rah rah Hillary for Pres. but I was comfortable. I thought she was intelligent but looking at this campaign she's not too smart. I don't think Hillary, Bill and a lot of other folks realize how much damage they have done in their relations with the black community. Hillary's half a**ed apology goes nowhere with me. I'm sure she will be sorry when she gets the nomination and blacks folks don't come running back like she and Bill think they will. It's not that I think a lot of Black folks will vote for McCain, some might, but a lot will stay at home. I certainly will be at home, I don't believe in rewarding bad behavior and Hillary campaign has been bad and totally unacceptable for me. Needless to say apologizing won't change my opinion when you have to keep doing it again and again.
Lynn, this it not the first time Atheist has started with that Obama half black crap. Even when Atheist is given a history lesson she repeats that same crap.
I don't care if you don't like Obama and I don't mind if the reason you won't vote for him is becuase he's black or half black (like that a big surprise) but to remain ignorant repeating the same ignorant statements again and again is unacceptable.
I'm not worried about whether or not Barack gets the nomination anymore. He showed what true character is with the speech and his refusal to paint this pastor, who he respects, in a negative light.
August, well said! I agree 100% Some folks don't understand, it's not whether you win or lose it's how you play the game. Honesty, sincerity and class win every time.
The Buchanan/Scarborough shtick is to bash the Democrat that is ahead so as to try to keep the race going as long as possible (additionally, they try to stir up racial animosity within the party). At first it was Hillary and they bashed her relentlessly and praised Obama. In the late winter that began to change and they now bash Obama. (They now both go out of their way to defend Geraldine Ferraro's comments (LOL)).
With this speech, Obama has made it so that if they continue that approach and do not recognize the effectiveness of that speech, they will look like buffoons. Their jig is nearly up and I hope that their many statements and the many hours of Morning Joe spent talking about the (LOL) huge racial divide in the Democratic Party will come back to haunt them as being pathetically inaccurate, biased political commentary and maneuvering.
"grating" - meaning "things I don't like to hear"? - i.e. "the truth hurts".
Buchanan and Scarborough talking racial issues - You don't even have to read the story here to know what your going to get from them - WHITEwashed denial.
All any of the right-wingers could do in response to Obama's speech today is dissect the sentences and add their twisted spin to each - telling us what he was "really" saying. The big-picture is irrelevant to them. All they cared about is what they could take out of context to nit-pick him about. Of course the most blatant was Fox News - They're take on the story as reported in their evening "news" show was 180 degrees from all the other networks who were praising it as a historical speech that addressed racial issues head-on, like no other national politician or leader has since the days of MLK.
Buchanan, Scarborough, the Fox team, et al - they all have their heads buried so deeply in the sand that they've struck just enough water to keep their take on the issue alive.
I don't know how much plainer the man could have been.
No matter were you go to get reaction to the speech,someone is saying he should have gone farther.In my opinion if he had jumped off the empire state building and had done a double sommersault before landing,someone will say he should have done a triple.
Obama did what few politicians do, he told the truth about race from his perspective. He didn't embellish, he simply told what the "black" attitude is for many black Americans. Newt Gingrich, Pat Buchanon, these guys were in awe of the speech when he first gave it. They both admitted so on national television. They both had to listen to the speech again to find something to be dissatisfied about.
I listened to Hannity and Gingrich ask America 'how can the man lead a country if he didn't even know his pastor was making these comments while going to the church?' As if he has to defend his pastor. Unfortunately there are those who needed a reason to hate Obama. If it wasn't his pastor it'd be Rezco. If not Rezco it would've been something else. It doesn't matter what popular opinion is of Obama at this current moment in time, because the speech he gave transcends our time. He, in 30 something minutes, discussed something that has been avoided for decades. In other words even if they kill his presidential hopes they may have given birth to a political martyr. Think about this, the last African-American talked about this much since Dr. Martin Luther King was Tupac. That's what the youth of the black community had to look up to, a "gangsta rapper". Somewhere in America there is a 12 year old hispanic girl who believes, somewhere in America there's a 13 year old black boy who believes. The media can focus on the negative comments, but most logical thinking people understand the concept of anger and mistrust after 400 plus years of oppression. In 50 years black people are expected to not have any gripes or hard feelings towards America? America is a great nation, but America is not perfect. All the sound bytes in the world won't take away from the respect of many Americans Barack earned with that speech.
Would it be going too far if I were to say that I think Obama will actually benefit from this entire Wright controversy?
It appeared damaging at first. While it actually said nothing about Obama's views or qualifications, it was still the kind of thing that could make less-informed people uncomfortable with him.
Obama could not have handled it better. He came back with class and integrity, addressing the issue head-on. He examined all of the relevant issues, national and personal, in a manner that appealed to the better natures of all of us.
He dealt with the issue like a president.
"He dealt with the issue like a president."
That's the problem. We haven't had an actual "President" in so long, people have forgotten what one actually is.
Jon Stewart said it perfectly last night, " A politician who talks about race like a grown up."
I don't think you go too far in your summation - I, for one, agree with you. I feel that Obama's response to the firestorm (assess the situation in private, take TIME to come out with a proper reponse, and then come over the top with something that soars above the pettiness of the surface argument by addressing the real issues surrounding it) was a boost. It has its problems, as far I can see it:
1. The speech was about 40 minutes long. My mother is a liberal who watches CNN and MSNBC at night. My guess at this point is that she's seen - at most - 120 combined seconds of this speech, all of it regarding ONLY Rev. Wright. She is a typically informed American in this regard.
2. Nothing - absolutely nothing - that the man can say on TV will satisfy his most vocal critics, including the conservatives as well as those in the Clinton camp (not aides, mind you, but ground support) who refuse to allow themselves to believe anything but the idea that this powerful and eloquent American (a) got where he is because of affirmative action and (b) is a closeted racist who wants to steal power and wealth from the white majority.
I do think we, as a Nation, are capable and ready for voting the best person in as President regardless of their race or gender (I have my preferences, of course, and hope that it is Obama who reaches the steps on Inaguration Day - if he is, I plan on being in Washington to watch). My doubts lie in the capacity of the Press to treat the Presidential race as a serious issue instead of a dog and pony show. We can try to complain them into credibility, but in the end, the outcome of this race is determined by the Press and their treatment of the candidates and the issues.
I guarantee my children and my great-grandchildren will read of Senator Obama's speech on race in America even as they read of Rev. Dr. King's speech on race today. There will be studies and essays comparing historical context against the two speeches to determine just how far we've come in America, and how far we still need to go. Students of language and speechcrafting will dissect these words and compose theses on what it means to inspire today's minds. However, today, my mother and millions of other Americans will have absolutely no clue about what happened yesterday, and what it can mean to our future as a country.
Ce la vie.
I wish the Senator had gone a bt harder on Wright myself, but I thought it was an excellent speech. People like Puchanan and the Grinch will never be satisifed with anything that doesn't spew their nationalistic rhetoric, and neither will most ocnservatives. That's OK though. Sen. Obama wasn't speaking to that loty anyway. His speech was for the objective independant thinker/voter (which there are more of than you might realize!) who had some valid reasons to be concerned about the out-of-context soundbites they were presented with. The Senator's comments validated those feelings (as opposed to dismissing them, which is what conservatives do with dissent) while at the same time presenting a rational, reasonable and perfectly appropriate critique of the remarks, without attacking the speaker. (Again - something conservatives seem incapable of.)
As usual - I'm impressed and inspired by this man, and his vision. Here's hoping the rest of the country doesn't run to one of the other candidtaes in irrational fear.
For me, this was a salient point in Obama's speech and speaks directly to the heart of the anger that Wright and other blacks feel about this country. Emphasis mine.
Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments - meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today's urban and rural communities.
I've heard none of the punditocracy address this disparity. This is THE problem with the "take responsibility and pull yourself up by your bootstraps" argument from the right.
I am a caucasian woman from Texas. I think about my grandparents starting out their married lives in the grip of the Great Depression as ranchers. Kind of a dicey gig during even the best of economic times. They worked hard and managed to amass a half-million dollar estate to leave to children and grandchildren. Not a lot of money, but considering they never made more than $30,000 in any year between them, fairly remarkable.
My grandparents didn't have land or livestock when they began ranching. But they had something that no black rancher would have had in that time and place. The ability to borrow capital to finance purchases of land and livestock. Without that one small advantage, they would not have been able to do what they did.
Obama made a political speech because he was forced to by Rev Wright/father/uncle. This was nothing more than damage control where has he been on the racial divide before this he has not fought one issue on race nor any struggles. He only took on the racial divide when his image had been tarnished. Obama wears several masks one for the mainstream white media as to put them at easeand for whites to get over thier shame of their ancestors and then there is the mask for blacks to be able to sit sunday after sunday for 20 years in an afrocentric church which espouses to hate filled anti-american black nationalism i guess he is using his half white/half black heritage to his advantage. His public persona thrives on manipulation constantly sending his surrogates out to play the race card guess he was fooling white people always blaming the Clinton camp when he has espoused to Rev Wrights/sprritiual advisor/mentor/sounding board/angry black ex-marine/ friend 20 yrs. Geraldine Ferraro was right by virtue of white people who feel like they had to give the black guy a chance to right all the wrongs done to black people by whites. This is what you get when pick a candidate that you know nothing about. And the audacity of all those flags for the pretense of the pro american candidate. He has insulted all americans by choosing to use words like change unity hope. And I am a Democrat. But I could never vote for such a phony. On Friday he claims that he had never heard controversial comments but after his surrogates took the pulse of the american people by Tuesday he admits he had heard comments, I guess his grandmother could hope that he would use her to compare to Rev Wright in the same sentence. What a jerk to use something in confidence to some dvd's that sold to the public there is no comparision. Change= politics as usual with this slick character.
This is not presidential judgement.
"This was nothing more than damage control where has he been on the racial divide before this he has not fought one issue on race nor any struggles."
Were it "nothing more than damage control" it would not have been 40 minutes of an all-encompassing speech that both addressed the petty issues YOU bring up, but also extends to the core values of the American people and how an erosion of those values by corporate greed, political corruption, and lobbyist frenzies encourage the respective frustrations to emerge as prevailing racism within our nation's borders.
I sincerely believe that when I read comments like yours, I am hearing either from a Clinton supporter who doesn't want to accept that there is a better Democratic candidate than Clinton still available, or a Republican who is lying about their political status to make it look like there is a divide within the party that is deeper than it actually is. In either case, I'm certainly hearing from a person whose willful ignorance has caused them to refuse to read and/or listen to the words spoken, and find meaning within them.
These petty tactics of yours will not work forever. I do, however, hope that they don't work this year.