Limbaugh falsely claimed minister who attacked Obama is "pro-Hillary"
SUMMARY: Rush Limbaugh repeatedly claimed that Rev. James David Manning of the ATLAH World Missionary Church in Harlem -- who said that Sen. Barack Obama "was born trash," "pimps white women and black women," and is an "emissary of the devil" -- is "pro-Hillary" and "pro-Clinton." In fact, Manning stated in a January 25 letter: "I am not now, nor do I ever plan to be a supporter of the Clintons."
During the March 19 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh repeatedly claimed that Rev. James David Manning of the ATLAH World Missionary Church in Harlem -- who said on February 16 that Sen. Barack Obama "was born trash," "pimps white women and black women," and is an "emissary of the devil" -- is "pro-Hillary" and "pro-Clinton." Additionally, after playing audio of Manning's February 16 comments, Limbaugh asked, "will [Sen.] Hillary [Clinton] now be forced to have to defend this guy?" In fact, Manning stated in a January 25 letter: "I am not now, nor do I ever plan to be a supporter of the Clintons." The Drudge Report linked to a YouTube video of Manning's comments on the morning of March 19.
From the March 19 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show:
LIMBAUGH: We have coming up next here one, two, three, four -- let's see what I got here -- we have five sound bites from a pro-Clinton preacher. His name is the Reverend James David Manning, and he preaches at the ATLAH -- ATLAH Worldwide Church in Harlem. This is now on YouTube, ladies and gentlemen, and as I warned you prior to the conclusion of the last hour, this is rough stuff. This is really, really rough stuff. But this is something I think we all need to learn and expose ourselves to, because we're being told that we are ignorant when it comes to the traditions and the context of the dynamics, if you will, of the traditional black church in America. So I -- this is another example of what's going on in a black church. This is in Harlem. The Reverend James David Manning, a pro-Hillary pastor.
MANNING [audio clip]: Obama is a mack daddy. Obama pimps white women and black women. He got started -- you didn't notice him until he brought out those big-chested white women with their tight T-shirts and their short pants -- that's what a pimp does. Oh, c'mon. You don't get your campaign started with a big-chested white woman. She must be a 54D -- Double D. And a pair of shorts on. That's what's started his campaign. He put his name on two big 54Ds. Obama -- that's where you first saw his name. That's the first place I saw it, on two great big ol' [bleep]. He's a mack daddy. He pimps white women and black women. Obama is a long-legged mack daddy.
I haven't trashed Obama. His African-in-heat father went a-whoring after a trashy white woman. He was born trash. I said he was born trash. I didn't trash him. I'm speaking the truth about him. Now once again, I am a diplomat, but I'm not a compromiser. I got a word in my mouth. I said I got the word of God in my mouth, and God's not afraid of Obama or anybody else or Ted Kennedy or that little Caroline or anybody else.
LIMBAUGH: All right, this is from February 16th of 2008. I told ya. I told ya this was rough stuff. Now, if you watch the video -- if you watch the video, they put together this -- the Obama girl in the shorts and the T-shirt and so forth that Reverend James David Manning here is talking about. Here's the next bite.
MANNING [audio clip]: He gave a quarter of a billion dollars to this community. Up came all the new stores, restaurants, financing for condos. All of this happened, made this for you, and now you're trashing him. Now, I'm not making these statements because I'm supportive of Bill Clinton. When he was doing that, I told you about him. Just like I'm speaking about this long-legged freak called Obama, I told you about Bill Clinton. A man who has built your home the way this home has been. And now you are trashing him and his wife after he's given you all that he's given to you from a man who you have no idea what he's going to do. And the reason why you're doing it is not because of honor and integrity but simply because he got a black face, but I told ya he also got a white momma. You hypocrite, you. You spineless you-know-what. You don't have enough sense to pour piss out of a boot and you're talking about Obama as your president. You're despicable. No honor. No integrity. Well, I'm not in favor of Bill Clinton, but if a man has done for you as much as he has done and then for you to trash him the way you're trashing him makes you less than a maggot. But that's how black men are; they don't have anything. Again, black men don't have a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of, and they're looking for Obama to give them more irresponsibility and unaccountability.
LIMBAUGH: Oh my. This is painful to listen to. This is happening in church in Harlem last February 16th, the Reverend James David Manning, who is a pro-Clinton pastor, and -- I don't know, will Hillary now be forced to have to defend this guy? I don't know if he's on her advisory committee or not. I told -- I told you this was -- I told you this was rough stuff. But you know, we're being told to ignore Reverend [Jeremiah] Wright here -- [unintelligible] Reverend Wright [unintelligible] we don't understand what goes on, we don't understand the history and historical experiences and so forth and so on. And I'm here to tell you that listening to all this stuff, I will agree, I don't get it. Don't understand it. Now, the next bite, Reverend James David Manning in Harlem goes after affirmative action.
MANNING [audio clip]: They're looking for the easy way out. They're pimps and players. Black men. It's who they are. And black women are player-lovers. That's why you go to the churches that you go to. You're player-lovers rather than people of integrity, people of honor. You are the weakest people on the planet. And, you have the audacity to accept affirmative action, which says that you are not as qualified as someone else, and you made it a law. You have accepted affirmative action and grinned and held parties to celebrate when the white man says we'll make a law similar to the Dred Scott decision that says that you are not as qualified as others because of racism and slavery. Therefore, what is required of the white race is not required of you. And you have applauded affirmative action. You are ignorant. You are despicable through and through.
LIMBAUGH: He's talking to his own congregation here. Now, some people might agree with that. Some people might think he's got a point here, talking to his flock regarding affirmative action. Now he, I think in this next bite, he uses the word that Don Imus was fired for using.
MANNING [audio clip]: I am the voice crying in the wilderness. A planet Earth to the black faces. "Return and repent," sayeth the Lord of Hosts, "of your wicked doings." I got this word from God. It's in my mouth. The future of you African and African-American people is in my mouth. It's not in your hand, it's in my mouth. And I don't have to compromise for not one of you nappy-head people. The word of God is in my mouth. Your health is in my mouth. Your ability to eat bread is in my mouth. If I don't speak, you don't eat. The word of God is in my mouth.
LIMBAUGH: The Reverend James David Manning of Harlem here, in a sermon, February 16, 2008, a pro-Clinton preacher who has had some very unkind things to say about Barack Obama in our early first sound bite. I wonder -- this is probably going to irritate some people, but I'm beginning to think maybe now I understand why liberals do not want American history taught in schools, they'd rather it be taught by preachers, be they Reverend Wright -- hey, and some of you are cringing over this, and I can imagine I'm using my empathy here. "Rush why are you playing" -- well, I've told you why we're playing it. If you're cringing over this, did you cringe over Jeremiah Wright? Look, we heard Jeremiah Wright, everyone started making excuses -- "We gotta understand, we gotta understand. We gotta understand the rage." Well, this guy is filled with his own form of rage. And he's preaching it to the flock. Now, the difference, this guy is fully able and willing to insult his flock in his own way. Jeremiah Wright is, I guess, doing so in a different manner. Back now to the big finish, and we return with James David Manning to Barack Obama.
MANNING [audio clip]: I'm here to speak the word of God. I don't have to compromise with you. You've been in this country a slave for 500 years, and you're still mocking and complaining that you don't have anything. After 500 years. There must be something deficient about your intellectual strength. There must be something deficient about your God to let you be on the bottom as long as you're on the bottom, and two years from now Mexicans are going to be running your life and writing your paycheck. If I don't stand up, I'm your last hope. After me, there will be no hope. [Louis] Farrakhan didn't get it for ya. Barack is an emissary of the devil.
LIMBAUGH: And we'll take a brief time out and be back and continue after this.
Wait I'm confused now, I thought old Rev. Hagee told us a couple weeks back Obama wasn't the antichrist, but now this Manning guy is kinda saying he is, I don't know what to beleive.
I can't beleive anyone can go to this nutjobs church, what he said is 100 times worse than the clips Hagee said. Hillary should should just ignore this whackjob.
Long time no see Capain Obvious! :)
Conservatives and Republicans may be "religious" but they are far from "Christian."
They are ALL little more that bible-thumping, hypocritical, vote-whores. They don't want RELIGION in politics (that's bad enough though!) they want THEIR NARROW DEFINITION AND INTERPRETION OF RELIGION in politics. IOW - vote for me or go to hell. Which is where ANYONE who would use religion IN ANY WAY to get elected, or build or maintain power is going.
THOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN. The Republican claim to be "God's party" and the whole "Jesus would vote me" nonsense is BLASPHEMY. Utter, vile, petty, Godless BLASPHEMY. Jesus wouldn't vote republican... he'd take his staff and twack between the eyes whichever candidate claimed to have his vote, and who would use his name and good word for personal and/or political gain.
This goes beyond politicians too - Falwell, Hagee, Parsley, Roberston, Donohue, Dobson, (the list goes on...) Yeah... All going to hell for using Christ as a basis for personal wealth, fame and power. They'll be in good company though. And probably believe it's heaven, despite what their common sense should tell them. They'll go on ignoring facts in the afterlife, just as they have done in this one.
Great post here over at Huffpo.
Thomas Jefferson was a smart man.
Obama isn't the anti-christ, he's just an idiot like most socialists are.
The only idiots I see are those who are too stupid to know the difference between a liberal, a socialist, and a communist. They use all three terms interchangeably to show the world their ignorance.
Mark Levin is a prime example of this.
I'm having so much fun watching this.
LOL
Just imagine how much fun it will be when you learn how to read.
This pastor is a nut. His January 25th letter and his February video don't even sound like they are from the same person. For someone who isn't supporting the Clintons, he certainly makes their case in the video, even though in his letter from a month prior he practically says the opposite.
Hillary needn't waste her time on this guy, whether he is pro or anti Hillary.
Ohhhh, I get it now. So ProudConservative must have listened to Limbaugh, heard him say The minister was a Hillary supporter, and then post the video to make a funny about Hillary. So it really IS true then. Limbaugh speaks, and his dittoheads disperse to the far reaches of the intertubes to further his righteous and usually wrong message.
Fav. line "but I'm beginning to think maybe now I understand why liberals do not want American history taught in schools, they'd rather it be taught by preachers,"
Because American history has been a thorn in my side since I was in pre-school (I was a history minor, btw.) Orwellian double-speak? Just an utter lack of knowledge about the world around him? YOU BE THE JUDGE!
Garden of Eden,
I heard of this in the early morning listening to Quinn and Rose. I placed the link elsewhere because I thought MM(vl) needed to share this wonderful video with its followers.
I'm glad that Rush has picked up on it though. Let the chaos and mayhem continue!
I know I'm scared. Oh no! the scary black man is yelling at me!
So PC, are you a McCain supporter? I mean, I'm just curious, because he's a "scary liberal" too. WhoooOOOOooooo
Tossedoutofeden,
Actually, I was hoping for Duncan Hunter to get the nomination. But as for McCain, I'll probably vote against the socialist candidate in democrat clothing.
princessoftires,
No actually his first rule is, Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.
And the laughingstock seems to have an ever enlarging area of listening affiliates. Chosen to replace a number of Hair America stations. (Darn those pesky ratings.)
Thank You for letting me know that ratings equals truth and honesty. That is a relief....so, did you know about Mr. Quinn and his sexual escapades on another station here in Pgh. Damn, I just figured it out. Cons like this guy even though he is low-life. But, that is what a good Conservative would do. Face it, Quinn adds nothing to the dialogue, he is a Rush wannabe and is always two days behind.
Nothing the Quinn ever says can be considered important.
OK, and I'm sure that you had a "hard time" playing this, and listening to it Rush, or is it Jeff? I forget which name you were born with and all.
All these clips prove is that there are kooks all over the place. How do you know this guy is liberal Rush? You don't. You don't at all.
This is just ridiculous.
This is the link to the video from February 19th, 2008.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU&feature=related
Sounds like his opinion of the Clintons's has changed. President Clinton seems to have given alot of $$ to Harlem and it WORKED! Listen, he's protective of Hilliary!
princeoftides,
It seems that the use of seems in my seams tend to show me correct seemingly so often!
OriginalrecipeKFC,
I am reticent to point out that I am both right and correct so often. That would be...................................unseemly.
Keep your fingers licking good
weiner,
Are you kidding? Ignored? Have you never seen such a rapid response on the MM(vl) site on any topic?
Anyone can hear the YouTube videos of this pastor. He praised Clinton numerous times.
This is a non-story.
And this is all in the interest of "exposing" white people to the traditional black church? Thanks, Mr. Limbaugh.
This is as bad as saying that the scenes in "Blues Brothers" provide viewers with all of the depth and breadth they needed to consider themselves "exposed" to the Catholic and black churches. :)
Mr. Limbaugh is telling his listeners that this is the common experience of the black churchgoing public. Somebody help me out here...not being a black man, and not being terribly churchgoing, I just don't have an experience to share...but I'm guessing that Mr. Limbaugh's example set of 1 isn't indicative of the entire population that he's trying to describe. :)
It's great to see Limbaugh and Bill "M-Fer get me some tea" O'Reilly getting in touch with their 'black' sides.
They are the sources I look to when I want to learn about typical black America.
/sarcasm
Thomm Hartmann is ripping neal boortz a new one in a tete a tete on air america.
I'll stop with the off topic now. My apologies.
classic regressive,
So this is being heard by literally tens of tens of listeners?
But at least they're listeners. Someone who listens, evaluates what he hears and decides whether it's informative or just drivel.
Rush, Hannity, Savage and O'Reilly don't have listeners. They have sponges. The sponges soak up whatever they hear and when squeezed, let loose with the same drivel they sucked in.
Anxietyladenqueen,
Thanks for the gafa. As for the sponges, if Hair America broadcasts in the woods......well, you know how the saying finishes!
So I don't get it? Is this supposed to be someone who supports Hillary? As in, someone she didn't embrace, and or bring into her fold. Is that the issue here? This guy "might" support Hillary?
So what if he does support Hillary? How is that a problem, well, for her? It's not actually. I'm willing to bet she doesn't even know who this guy is.
Face it folks, we can't control who, or who does not support Hillary et all. I'm sure that there are tons of crazed right wingers out there who support John McCain as well. Do the presidential candidates have to go through and repudiate everyone who says they support them if they don't agree with them, and or didn't ask for their support?
This is getting ridiculous, really. Started with the whole Farrakhan / Obama "thing", and now it's just getting silly.
Mags,
The difference that I can see is that Rev. Wright's association with Obama is not just through an endorsement, but rather a 20 year relationship as his minister and spiritual adviser.
Obama really has a problem convincing skeptics that he could attend a church for 20 years that was pastored by a racist, American hating, Farrakhan admiring minister, all the while strongly disagreeing with this minister. One wonders why does Obama not dissociate himself from Wright, since he says he felt that way all along . After all, he is not a relative, like his grandmother. Obama was free to leave anytime.
Did you hear the quotes Obama made after the Don Imus affair? I do not have the exact quote in front of me, so correct me if I am wrong, Obama called for Imus to be fired.
So if he feels Imus should have been fired for his stupid, biggoted joke, why does he support the extremely biggoted Wright? I just don't get it. Maybe you or someone else can explain the difference?
AA, I have a perfect analogy as to why this is a non-issue.
either:
Sean Hannity is a Catholic.
Catholic priests have been molesting little boys for years and years.
Sean Hannity does not agree with molesting little boys.
Therefore, Sean Hannity should leave the Catholic church.
or:
Sean Hannity is a Catholic.
Catholic priests have been molesting little boys for years and years.
Therefore, Sean Hannity molests little boys
See how easy that is?
I know, it's worse, they engage in that kind of behavior.
I know it's not that apt of an analogy, but it still gets the point across that, Just because you can't blame Hannity for Catholic Priests, you can't blame Obama for Rev. Wright.
Either way, Xavier just eeked out a win! I have them in my Final Four, so I was quite relieved.
Haha, we'll just have to wait and see
GO HEELS!
(My wife is getting her PhD from Carolina as we speak)
Althought I could say, "GO BLUE DEVILS!"
Since she got her undergrad from Duke... I'm torn. My school didn't even approach making it into the tournament, U-Maine, much better at hockey than basketball that's for sure.
DB,
If Hannity refused to disavow those priests, and one of them was his pastor, your analogy might be valid. However Hannity has repeatedly condemned those priests. I heard him even say how his own Pastor condemned these Priests. So your analogy does not match reality.
No you can't. Rev. Wright is free to say whatever he likes.
But if you are running for President on platform of unifying the country, you've got to at least try to look like you are not in the palm of a racist, American hating preacher.
Now he's America hating? How is he America hating? How is Obama in his palm? I'm sure that even you have good friends, who might influence you, but I'd be willing to bet that you can think for yourself, or at least let Limbaugh et all do some thinking for you.
You should judge Wright by his actions and words. And we should judge Obama by his actions and words. Correct? Or is this just more guilty by association, and if we're going to play that game, I then ask folks like yourself, for the umpteenth time, McCain should be excoriated for his connections to just as, if not MORE controversial figures than Obama.
Mags,
You are judged by the friends you keep. I consider Obama's refusal to disavow Rev. Wright to be an 'action' that speaks loud and clear and see it as contrary to his rhetoric of unifying the country.
Arch,
Make all the comparisons you like. People have been doing it here for years. I can't count all the references I've seen where those ministers on the religious right are associated with politicians. I agree there are nutcases on both sides. You are doing it here in an attempt to gain some equivalence.
I agree that you can't be responsible for the words of another. However you can disassociate yourself from blatantly bigotedly, race-baiting, anti-American rhetoric of a preacher. That is if you disagree vehemently with that preacher. If you agree, then you continue to attend his church and call him your spiritual mentor.
palm of a racist, American hating preacher.
AA,
True or False?
Thomas Jefferson. He was a brilliant political philosopher. But when he wrote “All men are created equal” he didn’t mean it. He wasn’t talking about the rights of all men. He certainly wasn’t talking about the rights of women. The man owned slaves.
True or False?
In many ways, America still represents some of the best hopes of this dream of human liberty. But we are not perfect. We have not yet arrived at our destination. And this country is still largely controlled by rich, white men.
True or False?
Iraq War was predicated on lies.
True or False?
Unilateral support for Israeli policies with respect for Palestine is a source of difficulties in our nation’s relationships in the Middle East at large.
True or False?
Did 9/11 happen because they hate us for our freedom, or because of a complex history of these relationships that go back at least 50 years if not back through the better part of the 20th century.
AA, Rev. Wright is a black man born in 1941. Do you have any idea what life was like for a black child born in 1941? I would guess you don't have a clue. His experience has shaped his view of America and unfortunately he still holds a lot of resentment. Can you understand that? Probably not, you should walk a mile in his shoes before you judge him.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that some of the things Rev. Wright said were wrong but I understand where he's coming from. America did not love Rev. Wright in 1941. In fact it took America quite a few years to "love" Rev. Wright and I imagine he thought it took America a little too long.
I imagine Obama stayed in Rev. Wright's church becuase as a Christian it was not his place to judge and he like I refuse to judge the total of a man by a few words.
Solon,
Comments like these are trollish. You can do better.
AA,
If people are afraid or reticent to vote for Obama because of his association with Wright, then that is their choice. I believe he has done everything he can to try and explain it, if it unsatisfactory to some then I would like to know what would they, or you, like Obama to say or do? What would, if anything, satisfy you to get beyond this? Or is there nothing at this point?
I am struck by the disconnect between Obama's words and his actions. I think he is a great speaker even if I don't agree with his positions. However how can Obama be a uniter when one refuses to dissociate himself with an America hating, race baiting minister, let alone put him on your religious advisory board and have him baptize your children. It just doesn't add up to me.
Perhaps you can tell me how you can ignore that?
AA, the way I see it, and I'm paraphrasing Frank Luntz of all people here, "In politics, there is room for contradictions." I believe that Obama has a personal relationship with his pastor, and that pastor has said some controversial things, but so does every pastor. As a friend and mentor, I'm sure the man has given him much advice about his spirituality, but I'm also sure that Obama truly disagrees with him on some things, namely the remarks that are getting played in the media (btw, when they actually came out a while ago, Obama denounced them then as well.) Doesn't mean they can't agree on other things. As an example, the majority of Abraham Lincoln's cabinet consisted of people who disagreed with him, often vehemently. He always took their advice into consideration, yet always acted according to what he thought was right. I believe Obama will do the same, and unlike our current failure of a Presidency, he really will be a uniter.
AA,
I am not ignoring it at all. I was very anxious to hear Obama's speech and the way he handled the whole Wright issue. He could have absolutely trashed him and come up with some politically correct way to do it, nifty speechwriters could have come up with some nuanced way out here for Obama - just vague enough to cover what he has said in the past, and just enough vitriol directed at Wright to properly distance himself. Politicians and handlers are experts at this, they could have come up with a way, I believe.
But instead, Obama tried to explain his association honestly and with candor, he didn't pander to his critics and trash Wright, but attempted to contextually place his cherry picked sermons over the years in a broader discussion about race today in this country.
Now, don't get me wrong, I vehemently disagree with Wright and do not cut him any slack for his sermons, they are offensive to me......but I am not about to get into the minuate of them or debate them with anyone, they are just a side issue as he is not running for anything, much less president. They are his words, as reprehensible as many of them are, I don't blame Obama for it. And Wright's defenders, for which I am not one, will never win any debate trying to rationalize or explain them as a way to soften them as a show of support for Obama.......I haven't done that, and will not.
My emphasis is on Obama and how he handled it, he denounced the specifics enough for me.....and isn't the Christian thing to hate the sin but love the sinner? If it is, Obama exemplified Christianity quite well.
Proverbs 22:24-25 Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered, or you may learn his ways and get yourself ensnared.
Yes it is Christian to hate the sin and love the sinner but that doesn't mean I'll vote for him.Proverbs 22:24-25 Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered, or you may learn his ways and get yourself ensnared.
And you're voting for McCain?
Where does this pant-load come up with this stuff?
But then after reading yesterday's Savage thread, and hearing Fact Finders version of American History, maybe we are wasting money trying to teach people anything.
Each morning is a whole new experience for them. There is no past. There's only what we can take today and what we have to fear tomorrow.
I was wondering about this myself.
How can we be god-less heathens, AND have our allaged pastors / priests / preachers teach our kids American history?
Phew, my head, it's spinning for all of this, well, spin.
A$$holes.
orangeblossom,
No, I prefer to call him a racial stylist!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racist
PC:
You posting a definition of racist does not prove Wright to be one. So, please, keep trying. You might be getting closer. Come up with a quote, some words, a full sermon (in FULL context of course) of him being a racist, and I'll read it, and comment. I've been asking for days now, and nobody has put anything up there that was even remotely racist.
Mags,
What about: "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."
According to an article in Rolling Stone, Reverend Wright said, 'Racism is how this country was founded and this country is still run! … We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. … We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. … We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. … We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means! And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS S***!'
"At the first Sunday service following the terrorist attacks of 9/11, Wright preached that the attacks were a consequence of violent U.S. policies. And four years later, Wright wrote that the 9/11 attacks were proof that 'people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just disappeared as the Great White West went on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns.'"If you can't see that those quotes aren't examples of bigotry, racism, and America hating, then nothing will convince you.
ps. I got these quotes from an article by Larry Elder.
http://townhall.com/columnists/LarryElder/2008/03/20/obama_from_valiant_to_victicrat?page=1AA, I'd bet that anyone in the country objectively reading those quotes could find themselves not agreeing with at least some of them.
You appear to have swallowed the whole package as "America-hating, bigoted, etc.". The lazy approach is to tell others that if they can't see what you see, they can't be convinced. Why don't you make an argument or two on the specifics of one or more of the statements?
You might be surprised at who's been blinded.
Col.
I find that I have been specific and you haven't.
There is nothing in there that I would disagree with him, except maybe the AIDS thing.
We don't export guns and killers? This country wasn't founded on racism, parts of it most certainly were. Blacks haven't been downtrodden in this country, and have been for quite some time? If you don't see what he's saying, I say, you probably need to open your eyes a little more.
Nowhere in there does he say he hates America. I'm sure that the man loves this country as much as you or I, but sees problems with it. Problems he wants to correct, and make better.
Where in there does he say anything (except the AIDS tirade which is a bit looney) that wasn't or isn't true? Where does he say he HATES white people?
Nowhere in there. You see him as an angry black man who hates white people, which isn't what he's preaching there, and nowhere in his words, or by his actions is he racist.
Methinks you should look up the definition again. Power over another race = racism, or being a racist. Or hating another race, just because of their color (see the KKK for a good example). Black people in THIS country have been through a lot, and have built good portions of this country, and have been treated like dirt for the vast majority of the history of this country, and on some levels, they still are treated like dirt.
Right, Mag. It looks like AA has been frightened by the videos of Wright to the point that he thinks everybody else must be crazy.
I've been hearing all about the mayhem and chaos in the Dem party, and just heard Hannity reciting some numbers about likely voters if Obama is the candidate. He was obviously cherry picking, isolating those "somewhat likely" to pull the lever for Obama vs. McCain. I thought he said Rasmussen, but I couldn't find this one.Anybody got a link?
On the other hand, what I did see at the Rasmussen site, contrary to the media's description of Obamas being "on the rocks" and "in freefall", were fluctuations pretty much within those of the past few months, with McCain slightly leading today.
"If you can't see that those quotes aren't examples of bigotry, racism, and America hating, then nothing will convince you."
I see it as racially charged, but he's not saying whites are inferior to blacks, and by definition racism is when someone believes that a race is inferior to their own, or that their race is superior.
And he's not being bigoted, that's still how it is in America. You do realize that racism is still pervasive in today's society, reaching it's claws out to all aspects of our nation? And Christians should ultimately agree with Rev. Wright, he just takes on the perspective of an African-American, which a lot of white people can't fully grasp (I know I can't.)
Did you ever see the South Park episode where Stan's dad accidentally says the N-word on a game show, and become the "N-word guy"? Token gets angry at Stan for it, and Stan tries to reason with him, but eventually Stan realizes that he just doesn't get it. "Token, I get it! I don't get it!"
It's a dichotomy of American race-relations that won't be solved for a long, long time.
Sorry DB,
I don't watch South Park. In my opinion using that as an example doesn't really do your much for your side.
Better yet, let me pick it apart for:
""The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."
What is America hating about this sentence? Other than some conspiracy theory that he has about AIDS, how is this "anti American" as you claim he is, or bigoted for that matter. Last I checked, the government of this country wasn't the country, the people are.
"Racism is how this country was founded and this country is still run!"
As in, slavery, and subjugation of black people brought from Africa to build the infrastructure and economy of this new country before, and after we fought to get our independance from England.
We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. …
We do have a thriving drug trade in this country, and we do train killers and send them out into the world. We do export guns and weapons systems to other nations. The black community is more adversely affected by illegal drugs than others in the US. This is what he was getting at in his first line. We arm nations around the world, and also send them "advisors" to train their Armies to kill. How is this bigotted or America hating?
We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. …
Again, true. How you might say? Look at the power structures of most major corporations in America. White. The government of America? Vast majority, white. And so on, and so forth. You can go, search local and state governments, and you're going to find the same thing. Look, the guy that took Spitzer's place last week, only the 4th black Governor since re-construction. That's a bad track record. And the mere fact that black people are STILL treated as second class citizens in this country.
We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. …
This happened. 'Nuff said.
We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!
See above statement.
And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS S***!'
Is god sick of it? Don't know. I don't believe in god.
"At the first Sunday service following the terrorist attacks of 9/11, Wright preached that the attacks were a consequence of violent U.S. policies."
He's actually correct. Bin Laden has said as much, that the foreign policies of the US is why al Qaeda attacked us on 9/11. Read Imperial Hubris, the Bin Laden unti chief lays it out all very nicely, as to why they attacked, and why they will again, and it all lays with foreign policy.
I don't see those quotes as bigotted, and or racist, or America hating. I see them as mostly valid criticisms of a country and a people who have for too long put down black men and women.
"I see them as mostly valid criticisms of a country and a people who have for too long put down black men and women."
Not only that, but as a country that sees itself as always right, especially as it pertains to foreign policy.
Mag, what you must understand is that people like AA refuses to put himself in someone else’s shoes, notably minorities, and understand that everyone may not have the same experience here in America. Doing so would make him guilt-ridden or uncomfortable. Therefore, he’s way to assuage this uncomfortablity is by quoting black neo-cons such as Elder who is assign to do hit-pieces on Barack Obama, with Elder’s blackness used as legitimacy. AnotherAmerican is so stuck in his ideology and chest pounding patriotism, it’s impossible for him to have empathy and understanding towards those who are bruised from white supremacy. I have many family members who shared stories with me about living under Jim Crow in the South; stories on how they were spit on, beaten, verbally abused, simply for being black. Some of them shared stories with me on how they knew people that were lynched and such murders were never investigated and solved simply because the victim was black. Blacks from Rev. Wright generation internalized such oppression, and through Christianity, they attempt to seek meaning of their suffering. Since Christianity was initially used to rationalize slavery and black inferiority—along with Eugenics which originated here and later used in Nazi Germany—blacks took a different meaning from those Biblical scriptures when interpreting their existence in a society that treated them less than human. It was either that or accept the theory that being black means one is unequal to whites, intellectually and biologically, and because of this inferiority one must always accept being second-class citizens. And if there’s one thing that the authors from the Harlem Renaissance chronicled in their great poems and novels is that for a black person to accept such a notion as truth is worse than any physical “lashing” or “beating” that may damage one’s body but ultimately kill one’s soul. That’s where the role of religion came in for black people: it was a way to give meaning to their life, a source one could turn to in order to understand one’s humanity, despite suffering under brutal circumstances. I’m not a religious person myself, and I’m not too fond of organized religion, but when putting things in a historical perspective, it’s easy to understand why so many black people are devout Christians, and why black preachers such as Wright and others interpret Biblical scriptures different than those whites elites who had a history of using scriptures to rationalize white supremacy.
There was nothing in Wright’s sermon where he preached on the inferiority of whites and oppressing white communities across America. Wright belongs to a long tradition of black ministers who combines self-help conservatism, economic populism and Christianity to mobilize the black citizenry to fight for equal rights, or, in this current environment, fight against corporate interests and backstabbing politicians. Wright scares people like AnotherAmerican, because like Malcolm X, he challenges America’s innocence of being a perfect democracy—the greatest country in the world!—where the playing field is equal and everyone can achieve the American Dream. Wright’s militancy stems from America’s refusal of treating a minority group that’s been here since America’s conception as equal partners. His militancy stems from America’s denial that racism is not part of the problem anymore, it’s blacks’ laziness and “culture” holding them back (before it was “biological inferiority,” but since that doesn’t fly anymore, “culture” has replaced “biology”). Wright’s militancy stems from his personal experience of being humiliated and discriminated against for being black, and that racism—now more covert than overt—is not being challenged. Even Wright’s theory on the AIDS epidemic black communities (which I should add, being a gay man, I’ve heard such theories made by many of my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.., who feel that AIDS were spread in gay communities by our government as a way to kill them off silently) comes from his mistrust of our government and its abuse towards minorities. Hell, Bill Cosby—yes, Bill Cosby, conservatives’ favorite black man when bashing poor blacks—said the SAME THING in the early ‘90s about AIDs and the role government had played in spreading it in many communities. While these theories may be wacky to some, to those who are oppressed, ostracized, misunderstood, scapegoated, etc., one can easily understand where this frustration and paranoia comes from.
But in order to understand such frustration and paranoia takes looking at America with sheer honesty, and conservatives like AnotherAmerican just can't risk doing that.
"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."
AA, Rev. Wright was born in 1941. Maybe history him to be wary of his government.
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”
Thank you, Pearl! I also advise those to read "Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present" by Harriet A. Washington. It goes even further in explaining the medical experiments performed on slaves and gives a great, detailed profile on the Tuskegee Syphilis Study. Again, not saying I agree with Rev. Wright, but I can understand why someone from his generation would believe such a theory.
Eggnog,
Look at the video. This is not from the RNC and these comments should scare Americans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU
Read this column, if you have the balls:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html
IOKIYAR.
I'm usually tired of silly slogans and all, but IOKIYAR is a perfect fit for this story.
Eggnog,
I remember having Francis Sr. visit my univeristy. We had watched his series based on his book, How Shall We Then Live?, in a philosphy class that I had.
A number of us had issue with his reponse to our queries about disobedience, civil and otherwise. Particularly, we focused on the actions of some in the Christian community to harm physicans who were performing abortions. (This was much of his emphasis within the religious right) He felt such actions could be justified. I disagreed. When he mentioned the actions of Rev. Boenhoffer to kill Hitler, discussion focused on an action against a political leader, not against an individual following those orders. By inference he felt that taking a doctor's life could be morally correct. A number of us felt that the civil disobedience was the only approach to persuade Americans to protect the unborn.
We were also troubled by the idea of 'christianizing' our country, exactly the way detractors described religious righta s wanting a theocracy. None of us felt that our lot would improve if political leaders defined themselves as christian. We were suffering under Jimmy Carter at the time and thought that we should live as Christ did, not seeking political power to advance His kingdom. Politics and religion are not a good mix. I don't have a problem with a candidate describing him/herself as christian, but then do not make the opposition as unchristian. No such thing as christian politics. Right, excuse me, CORRECT political thinking never has, nor will ever save anyone's soul. I believe that it is God's business who He calls and who follows.
I recall reading several years ago how young Frank left a fundamentalist church and returned to Russian Orthodoxy. I have traversed a similar path, seeing that christianity should have nothing to do with the nastiness of politics. I never was a fan of the religious right, I thought those guys should just have been preaching the gospel.
My comments and links on this site are intended to demonstrate that politics and politicians need to express clearly what they are about and show how they will govern. I am disappointed by the RNC and its candidate, but I believe keeping Obama or Clinton from this office is a better solution for our human condition. This should not be so important that everyone screams at each other. We need levity, I think, and willingness to see politics in its proper perspective.
Nerzog,
I read the article. It really is not applicable in this situation. Our founding fathers said in the Declaration of Independence in the paragraph the need for people " to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another..." Nobody, either Democrat or Republican argues with that.
I doubt if anyone argues that the prevailing mood of the courts is to outlaw any reference to God in our schools.
Also arguing that the religious ought to do more to prevent abortion is not really treasonous.
Saying that Wright only said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton is incredibly misleading by omission. Anyone who saw the videos know Wright is full of anti-American venom and his other comments, conveniently left out, (I do believe I posted those quotes in this thread,) show Wright to be a racist.
First, the Declaration of Independence was just that. A declaration. It holds no function of law in this country, and never did. It was meant as a big F-you to King George and to tell him we were striking out on our own. It makes no laws, it is a press release from the 18th century.
God and public schools don't belong together, because public schools are just that. Public. You want God in your school? Attend a private religious school, and you'll get all you want. The reason why the courts consistenly rule this way, is because that is the LAW in this country.
Wright, as you have not yet proven, has been neither anti American, or bigoted, or racist.
Mags,
Go back and read the quotes objectively.
One does not have to say "I hate America" or "I hate whites/'blacks" to be anti-American or racist. How many times have you and others condemned someone for using the N word as being racist. Rev. Wright accusing the government and by association, whites of spreading genocide against colored people at his pulpit is as inflamatory racist a statement as any I have ever heard. Seeing how you dismissed it as 'looney' proves to me that you are incapable of seeing the statement for what it is.
Seeing how you dismissed it as 'looney' proves to me that you are incapable of seeing the statement for what it is.
Actually AA it shows how quick you are to believe what ever someone tell you and not do any research on your own. Don't act like there is NOT a history of the US experimenting with black folks. You think maybe this might cause some folks to distrust their government?
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”
By the end of the experiment, 28 of the men had died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis. How had these men been induced to endure a fatal disease in the name of science? To persuade the community to support the experiment, one of the original doctors admitted it “was necessary to carry on this study under the guise of a demonstration and provide treatment.”
The government AND BY ASSOCIATION WHITES? You dont really think you can get away with this illogical and frankly stupid blurring of an important distinction do you? In fact that VERY White Supremist attitude, that the Government IS White America is what Wright is talking about. You are being VERY dishonest here. You didnt come CLOSE to backing up your assertion. NOWHERE was there any attacks on White people in general. Your weak spinning to preted there was is just sad.
Anyone who saw the videos
AA did you see the ENTIRE video or only what Hannity showed you?
That video is scary, Deadlysinninganalretentive,
Bible thumping, Obama -hating, disgusted by the cute Obama girls breasts, yet noticing Obama's long legs.
Is this guy the leader of the GOP, or just a client?
Col.,
You wouldn't be proclaiming guilt by association would you?
I guess you must be busy, AA. Otherwise I'm sure you'd have been back here to explain that vague accusation. heh.
Wow, this guy sounds like a black Michael Savage. He uses the same technique of insulting his listeners, half of whom feel they deserve it, and the other half get to feel superior to the first half.