On Hardball, Matthews ignored his own advice to stop "trying to see things through the eyes of the Clintons"

On the March 24 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, MSNBC Hardball host Chris Matthews asserted: "I think we make a big mistake trying to see things through the eyes of the Clintons, in a kind of a Clinton-centric world." Later in the segment, Matthews said that "we should [not] be putting our focus... on the feelings of the Clintons," adding, "It's not important what the politics of the Clinton family is now; it's what['s] important to the country. And I really think we got to stop talking about this as if this were a sitcom. We had eight years of this sitcom: What are the Clintons up to? How do they relate to each other? What do they feel today?" Matthews then addressed co-host Mika Brzezinski and said: "Mika, it's a sitcom ... and it's gotta end. We gotta focus on America. We're stuck in Iraq; 4,000 people are dead now because of decisions made by politicians like the Clintons." However, despite his criticism that morning of coverage that "focus[ed]" on "the feelings of the Clintons," during that evening's edition of Hardball, Matthews devoted a six-minute segment to speculation about Sen. Hillary Clinton's motivations and preferred outcomes in the event that she loses the Democratic nomination for president, including wondering whether the "worst-case scenario" for Clinton is "[t]hat [Sen.] Barack Obama becomes the greatest Democratic president in modern times, and everybody forgets her husband and forgets she ever ran."

During the Hardball segment, with a panel that included MSNBC chief Washington correspondent Norah O'Donnell, NBC News political director Chuck Todd, and Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson, Matthews discussed four possibilities that "would be the favorite option and the least favorite option and the ones in the middle for Senator Clinton at this point":

Matthews made other baseless speculations as to Clinton's motivation. He asked:

• "[W]ould she be happier having a McCain win the presidency ultimately, or the man she's fighting hardest right now? Because she keeps saying McCain is qualified to be commander in chief."

• "Does she really prefer Barack over John McCain to be the next president?"

• "Let me ask you this, Norah: When you look at this, do you go with Gene's theory that Hillary Clinton would like to be president someday, if she can't win it this time, she's still hopeful, and therefore, would really, deep down, prefer that the door be kept open by the election of John McCain who will only serve, perhaps, four years and certainly will be vulnerable to an attack from the Democrats four years later?"

Additionally, although he stated that "we got to stop talking about this as if this were a sitcom," in the past, Matthews himself repeatedly discussed the 2008 election in exactly those terms:

• In a February 5 New York Observer article, media reporter Felix Gillette reported that as Matthews prepared for his show on February 5, he "pondered out loud whether voters might be getting tired of Mr. Obama. 'Like a sitcom in it's [sic] fourth season.' "

• On the February 5 edition of Hardball, Matthews asked if there was "Clinton fatigue," and added: "This sitcom's just gone on too long. We're tired hearing of what Bill's doing: Bill can't talk this week; he can talk; he's in the doghouse this week; he's not in the doghouse -- are we just tired of the sitcom? ... You know that's an issue."

• On the July 18, 2007, Hardball, Matthews said to The New Republic's Michael Crowley: "Michael, do we want a spin off as our next president? Do you know how these sitcoms will go on for years and then somebody -- Kelsey Grammer or somebody shows up -- or someone's Taxi and they end up having a show of their own. Hillary was on the Bill Clinton show for eight years and now she wants a show of her own. Is that too much of a retro move by America?"

• On the January 30, 2007, Hardball, Todd stated: "Electing a woman is change. This is a change election; '08 is going to be a change election." He added: "[I]f it's about Clinton -- if it's about electing ... somebody named Clinton, then it's not a change election." Matthews responded: "Don't make it another go-round of the sitcom."

• On the March 30, 2006, edition of Hardball, Matthews asserted: "You know, we had a 10-year sitcom with these two people. Are we ready for another 10-year re-up of this program? Hillary versus Bill; what Hillary said to Bill; how Bill's acting; whether Hillary thinks he's a right-wing conspiracy or she thinks it's Bill misbehaving again, or is it Bill trying to one-up her like at the Coretta Scott funeral? Excuse me, he one-upped her."

From the March 24 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:

MATTHEWS: Welcome back to Hardball. Now, for the favorite part of the show of many: "The Politics Fix." Chuck Todd is NBC's political director; he knows all. Eugene Robinson is a Washington Post columnist, who is one of the best columnists -- it may be decided soon -- the best columnist in the country. And Norah O'Donnell is MSNBC's chief Washington correspondent. Thank you all for joining us.

I want you all to pay close attention to this, and to the extent your reportorial ability allows you, decide what you think, based upon your reporting, would be the favorite option and the least favorite option and the ones in the middle for Senator Clinton at this point.

Number one: Senator Clinton wins the nomination of the Democratic Party, then goes on to win the general election. Is that the best scenario for Senator Clinton? Well, probably.

Number two: Obama wins the nomination, but McCain wins the general election.

Three: Clinton wins the nomination and McCain wins the general election.

Or four: Hillary Clinton -- well, Obama wins the nomination and the election. Keep that board up there while we each go through it. Please hold that up there. Gene Robinson, for Hillary Clinton, what's the worst-case scenario for her? Is it number four? That Barack Obama becomes the greatest Democratic president in modern times, and everybody forgets her husband and forgets she ever ran?

ROBINSON: Well, it's the worst case if -- you know, for her chances of ever being president, right?

MATTHEWS: OK. That's --

ROBINSON: So if she wants to be president, that's the worst thing for her. If she wants to be remembered as, you know, a great Democrat and a great figure in the party, then, you know, an option in which a Democrat wins is that.

MATTHEWS: You are so smart. You have threaded the needle here. No, I want to go -- before I get to Norah, I want to go to Chuck. Knowing the -- can we look at that again? I think people will forget this interesting bit of graphics we have. We should all watch it again. Let's take a look at it. Look at that, hold it up there, please.

Obviously, Hillary Clinton would like to win the whole shebang at this point even, when it's really a long shot at this point -- I think we would all agree -- but would she be happier having McCain win the presidency ultimately, or the man she's fighting hardest right now? Because she keeps saying, McCain's qualified to be commander in chief. He's another lover of the country, another patriot, seemingly to the exclusion of the other guy, Barack.

Does she really prefer Barack over John McCain to be the next president?

TODD: Look, she is in a fight for the nomination, a heated fight. We have gotten to the point where the two sides now hate each other more than they hate the eventual enemy. And right now, she is in an alliance, whether they have formed it officially or not --

MATTHEWS: With McCain?

TODD: McCain and Clinton are in an alliance, because McCain knows how to run against Clinton, has been preparing to run against Clinton in a general election.

Running against Obama is trickier, it's harder, it's different. It's not something he's ready for. He would love to run against Clinton.

Clinton, of course, wants to prove that Obama can't beat McCain, so needs to make McCain a stronger and stronger nominee. So, it is her path to the nomination. I think we can't read her mind and sit there and say, "Gee, she certainly hopes Obama doesn't get" --

MATTHEWS: But Gene found the outlet pass, because Gene answered the question.

TODD: But I think -- that's right. Does she want to be president?

MATTHEWS: If he wins, she'll never be president.

TODD: Correct.

ROBINSON: Right.

TODD: Pure and simple.

MATTHEWS: If he wins this, he'll get the nomination four years from now.

[crosstalk]

TODD: She'll never be -- she'll never be --

ROBINSON: With apologies to a guy who called the Davidson game yesterday, before the game.

MATTHEWS: Did you call Davidson?

ROBINSON: He called Davidson over Georgetown.

MATTHEWS: Well, that is a long shot.

ROBINSON: So, you know, Chuck does know all.

MATTHEWS: Are they going all the way?

TODD: Oh, come on.

ROBINSON: However --

MATTHEWS: OK, the Tar Heels all the way. Let me go to Norah. The Tar Heels will win the national championship, as they should.

O'DONNELL: You just had to bring up --

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Norah, because I know you want to talk sports --

O'DONNELL: You just had to bring up the Georgetown defeat, didn't you, Gene?

ROBINSON: Sorry, Norah.

TODD: That's right.

MATTHEWS: Georgetown has won many championships. Let me ask you this, Norah: When you look at this, do you go with Gene's theory that Hillary Clinton would like to be president someday, if she can't win it this time, she's still hopeful, and therefore, would really, deep down, prefer that the door be kept open by the election of John McCain who will only serve, perhaps, four years and certainly will be vulnerable to an attack from the Democrats four years later?

O'DONNELL: Yes, to answer your question on your test, Chris, it's choice number two, which is that she would rather have Obama win the nomination and then have McCain win the general election, so that in 2012, she could come back and run against McCain. I think that clearly would be the second best-case scenario, other than her winning the whole thing.

MATTHEWS: But that also fits into what -- their strategy. By the way, this is not idle discussion, because I have been looking at the performance of the Clinton campaign, and I completely understand why they're doing it, if this is their ambition. They are very tough on Obama. They're not cutting him much slack. I detected a little cutting in slack today, but they're really going after him this week, saying he's the one running the dirty campaign. He's the one trying to destroy her character. When they're out there really being tough with Obama, and then --

ROBINSON: Yeah.

MATTHEWS: I mean, I'm looking at how they excluded him from the cotillion of loyal Americans. That's a pretty mean --

ROBINSON: I know.

MATTHEWS: Here's -- this is President Clinton talking on Friday about Hillary and McCain facing off in the general election. It's -- he's almost a dating service here now. Look at this, he's putting them together.

CLINTON [video clip]: I think it'd be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who love this country and were devoted to the interest of the country, and people could actually ask themselves, who's right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics.

MATTHEWS: What's that, eHarmony? Norah, is he putting these people together? They seem like a perfect match and he's one of these people with the computer, saying, you know, you're both loyal to the country; you both love America; you're both qualified to be commander in chief. Why don't you two run against each other?

TODD: Well, look, the Clinton campaign --

O'DONNELL: Well, I mean --

TODD: -- will argue that, last Monday, she actually did criticize McCain. But there hasn't been a lot of criticism of McCain of late from the Clinton campaign. But read more carefully into what Bill Clinton was talking about. I don't think he was trying to question Barack Obama's patriotism. I think he was talking about the race issue, because the audience was older white men. This was a VFW hall.

MATTHEWS: So all -- "you won't have all this stuff"?

TODD: "All this stuff" --

ROBINSON: "All this stuff."

TODD: "All this stuff" was code for --

MATTHEWS: Means a person of a different ethnic background.

TODD: No, no, no. "All this stuff" means you won't have to deal with this extra issue that will come up in the general.

MATTHEWS: OK.

TODD: And he's almost apologizing for it. He's not saying he wants it to be that way. But you won't have to deal with this other stuff.

MATTHEWS: Excuse me for a second. When it comes to the size of the baggage load, you don't go with Clintons. You know, when they have to put their stuff on that scale at the airport, it's heavy. We'll be right back with the roundtable with more of "The Politics Fix."