Scarborough on Obama's "dainty" bowling performance: "Americans want their president, if it's a man, to be a real man"
SUMMARY: On Morning Joe, Joe Scarborough and Willie Geist repeatedly mocked Sen. Barack Obama's bowling performance -- which Scarborough called "dainty" -- at a campaign stop in Pennsylvania. Deriding Obama's score, Scarborough said: "You know Willie, the thing is, Americans want their president, if it's a man, to be a real man." He added, "You get 150, you're a man, or a good woman," to which Geist replied, "Out of my president, I want a 150, at least." After guest Harold Ford Jr. said that Obama's bowling showed a "humble" and "human" side to him, Scarborough replied, "A very human side? A prissy side."
During the March 31 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, co-hosts Joe Scarborough and Willie Geist repeatedly mocked Sen. Barack Obama's bowling performance -- which Scarborough called "dainty" -- at a March 29 campaign stop at Pleasant Valley Lanes in Altoona, Pennsylvania. Deriding Obama's score, he said: "You know Willie, the thing is, Americans want their president, if it's a man, to be a real man." Scarborough added, "You get 150, you're a man, or a good woman," to which Geist replied, "Out of my president, I want a 150, at least."
Later in the show, after NBC political analyst Harold Ford Jr. said that Obama's bowling showed a "humble" and "human" side to him, Scarborough replied, "A very human side? A prissy side." Ford asserted that Obama, who reportedly plays pick-up basketball, is a "heck of an athlete." Later, Scarborough acknowledged: "I'll challenge him to a bowl-off. But basketball -- he looks like he's in pretty good shape. I would just have to post low." Switching to football, Ford also said to Scarborough: "I'd throw him a pass on you, too. I've seen you. I think he could probably take you down the sideline on a post route."
According to reports by MSNBC's First Read and Salon.com, Obama played seven frames and left with a score of 37. Additionally, on Morning Joe, Obama campaign spokesman David Axelrod noted that Obama did not play all 10 frames. Nevertheless, on the March 31 edition of MSNBC Live, Tamron Hall claimed: "Mr. Obama scored a 37 when he hit the lanes this weekend. And yes, he bowled all 10 frames. That's impossible."
From the March 31 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:
SCARBOROUGH: You know, Willie, the thing is, Americans want their president, if it's a man, to be a real man. They -- 1984, I remember Ronald Reagan goes to South Boston. He holds up that beer mug --
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah.
SCARBOROUGH: -- in that South Boston pub, and everybody's like, "He's a real man," and I guess Barack Obama's trying to do the same thing, too.
BRZEZINSKI: Stop it. Oh, come on.
SCARBOROUGH: Awful. Good Lord.
GEIST: He's going to have to try a little harder than he did in Altoona, Pennsylvania, on Saturday night --
SCARBOROUGH: Oh my God --
BRZEZINSKI: Really?
SCARBOROUGH: Oh, this is awful.
GEIST: -- at the Pleasant Valley Rec Center. He went bowling, and let's just take a quick look at it here. I guess I'll just give you the final numbers. Started out nicely, got the Velcro shoes.
BRZEZINSKI: Looking good, looking good.
GEIST: But then he started bowling. The score you're really after in bowling is 300; that's a perfect score.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, OK.
SCARBOROUGH: That's perfect score.
BRZEZINSKI: Good, good, good.
SCARBOROUGH: But, you know, if you get 200, you're a good bowler.
GEIST: Sure. You know what?
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah. Two-fifty --
SCARBOROUGH: You get 150, you're a man --
BRZEZINSKI: OK.
SCARBOROUGH: -- or a good woman.
BRZEZINSKI: Stop it.
GEIST: Out of my president, I want a 150, at least. Barack Obama bowled -- well, you can see his form here --
[video clip of Obama bowling]
SCARBOROUGH: Hee!
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah.
GEIST: A 37.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh.
GEIST: That's a three, next to a seven.
SCARBOROUGH: Baby, if you go to Altoona, Pennsylvania, on a Saturday night and you're going to try to bowl --
[video clip of Obama bowling]
SCARBOROUGH: Oh, that's so dainty. Ugh.
GEIST: Get there, get there.
SCARBOROUGH: What a dainty --
GEIST and SCARBOROUGH: Oh!
BRZEZINSKI: A gutter ball, that's like me bowling.
SCARBOROUGH: That is such a dainty release.
GEIST: If you're the president, you want -- you don't want them to have to put those bumpers in the gutters.
SCARBOROUGH: Look, here we go, look at this. OK.
BRZEZINSKI: All right now.
[video clip of Obama bowling]
[Scarborough squeals]
GEIST: Oh, it's like a children's birthday party.
BRZEZINSKI: OK, guys.
SCARBOROUGH: I've got a feeling he --
BRZEZINSKI: That was useless and stupid and [unintelligible].
SCARBOROUGH: -- he didn't go bowling in Cambridge that much. That's a guy that's been studying a lot of -- reading a lot of books.
[...]
FORD: One thing I thought he did a great job of this week -- he's done a lot of great things but --
SCARBOROUGH: Not bowling.
FORD: No.
SCARBOROUGH: Have you ever bowled before, Harold?
FORD: I do, I have.
SCARBOROUGH: You ever bowl?
FORD: I'm embarrassed to say, but I do.
BRZEZINSKI: Harold, make your point.
FORD: My other point is just --
SCARBOROUGH: No, no, I'm curious. If you were running for president in Altoona, Pennsylvania --
FORD: They can walk him through --
SCARBOROUGH: He got a 37 --
FORD: -- feed milk to him --
SCARBOROUGH: Harold, he got a 37 bowling in Altoona, Pennsylviania.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, Harold.
GEIST: So sorry.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah.
FORD: He probably shouldn't do that again, but I tell you, it showed a human side to him. I mean, it showed a very humble side to him.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
BRZEZINSKI: He is a politician.
SCARBOROUGH: A very human side? A prissy side.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, stop it. Now, that's just not nice.
SCARBOROUGH: Anyway, make your point.
FORD: He's a heck of an athlete, by the way.
SCARBOROUGH: Is he really?
FORD: Actually, heck of an athlete.
SCARBOROUGH: It sure didn't look it, the way that he was just --
BRZEZINSKI: Oh my God.
SCARBOROUGH: He was pushing it this way, right there.
BRZEZINSKI: You have to take it and run with it, Harold.
FORD: But he looked like -- I mean, he looked like folks, he looked like an American. A Pennsylvanian -- he looked like someone, day in and day out --
[crosstalk]
BRZEZINSKI: No, no, no.
SCARBOROUGH: He was bowling in his tie --
FORD: -- except the bowling. The bowling hurt it.
BRZEZINSKI: Harold, take my advice.
FORD: The bowling -- I mean, I thought it was 137. You sure it was 37?
SCARBOROUGH: It was 37. That is awful.
BRZEZINSKI: You have to -- there is no way. There is no way out of this one.
[...]
SCARBOROUGH: So Harold, so Harold, though --
FORD: He's my buddy. I can't believe you make me laugh at --.
SCARBOROUGH: But you say he's a good athlete?
BRZEZINSKI: He's a dancer.
[crosstalk]
FORD: He's a heck of a basketball player.
SCARBOROUGH: Is he really?
FORD: Heck of a basketball player.
SCARBOROUGH: OK.
FORD: As a matter of fact, I spent a little time with his brother-in-law over the weekend who can also play.
BRZEZINSKI: I'd think you'd have a hard time against him --
SCARBOROUGH: How tall is he?
FORD: How tall is Barack?
SCARBOROUGH: Yeah.
FORD: Barack's probably 6'2".
SCARBOROUGH: Really?
FORD: 6'2", 6'3", yeah. He's a big guy.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah.
SCARBOROUGH: Well then, I better be quiet because --
FORD: Yeah, probably.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, I think you should.
SCARBOROUGH: I mean, I'm bigger than he is.
BRZEZINSKI: I still think you should be quiet.
FORD: You should reach out to a bowl-off.
SCARBOROUGH: I'll challenge him to a bowl-off. But basketball -- he looks like he's in pretty good shape. I would just have to post low.
GEIST: Right.
FORD: And I'd throw him a pass on you, too. I've seen you. I think he could probably take you down the sideline on a post route.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh no. Please don't, don't don't don't go there. You didn't just do this.
[crosstalk]
SCARBOROUGH: Wait, wait. I'm sorry? You talking football now?
BRZEZINSKI: Guys --
FORD: I mean, that's one sport y'all can still play at Florida --
[crosstalk]
SCARBOROUGH: I've got 5 yards.
BRZEZINSKI: Harold?
SCARBOROUGH: I've got 5 yards, bump and run. He's not going down the field.
FORD: Oh, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: You know what my nickname was in college?
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, Lord, help me.
SCARBOROUGH: The "Round Mound of Rebound." On the basketball court, you just go low and lean.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, well, 15 million Big Macs later, I don't think that name applies, honey.
[...]
SCARBOROUGH: Let's bring in right now David Axelrod, he's chief strategist for the Obama campaign. David, we have to ask a question, what did you know, when did you know it --
BRZEZINSKI: And what were you thinking?
SCARBOROUGH: What were you thinking? Why did you allow your candidate to bowl a 37 in Altoona, Pennsylvania? America waits for your answer, sir.
AXELROD: Well, if you're going to bowl a 37, Altoona's a good a place as any, Joe. No, listen. I think it was tremendously insightful of the candidate not to try and show up any of the other bowlers there.
SCARBOROUGH: I'll tell you what --
AXELROD: I mean, that's the kind of political sophistication that you want --
GEIST: There you go.
AXELROD: What's worse, I mean, listen, what made that worse was that right after that, Hillary Clinton revealed that she had bowled a 300 with the prime minister of Uzbekistan. So --
SCARBOROUGH: Oh, here we go.
[crosstalk]
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, that's harsh [unintelligible]. David --
SCARBOROUGH: I'll tell you what, that is some spin, my man.
BRZEZINSKI: No, you didn't.
SCARBOROUGH: First of all, you say he got the 37. That's why he gets the big bucks. He says --
AXELROD: So he didn't bowl 10 frames, Joe. He didn't bowl 10 frames, and as he's proven, he's a strong finisher.
SCARBOROUGH: Oh, OK.
AXELROD: So --
BRZEZINSKI: No. David?
AXELROD: Let's put the whole thing in perspective.
From the 10 a.m. ET hour of the March 31 edition of MSNBC Live:
HALL: Well, Barack Obama -- his friends say he's a whiz on the basketball court and he can hold his own on the dance floor -- and he's got a gift, of course, for speaking. But one thing Barack Obama cannot do, and I think it's official -- he can't bowl. Mr. Obama scored a 37 when he hit the lanes this weekend. And yes, he bowled all 10 frames. That's impossible. Well, voters in Pennsylvania will give him some pointers for his effort.
Agree completely Chris, these talk shows aren't allowed any humor whatsoever anymore?
Lighten up.....
Cool. BTW, I tend to agree, I only wish this was banter that spanned both parties. Joe has a record of only skewering Dems which is what really pisses off us on the left. It would be nice if we could get "equal banter" time (at least proof that there are dem supporters out there who can joke too! ;))
Maybe we need a Fair joke doctrine? ;)
I hear ya, but Joe's ideological persuasion makes him feel better when he is sticking to liberals and Democrats, so he is decidedly one-sided, no argument from me on that.
I just don't feel that protective of any politician or get too offended by the ribbing they get from anyone, they are big boys and girls and can take it, I hope.
No it isnt since you are carrying their water RIGHT NOW. This IS a conservative agenda, it HAS been pushed on each Dem candidate. You refusing to see that is partisan blindness they said this about Kerry and he is about 6ft 5 and a WAR HERO.
You SHOULD have a drink or a joint or somethin'.
You know a change....would do you good (that's from a song).
Bowling that 37 was shrewd campaigning on Obama's part, in my opinion. Look at all the mileage he gets out of it. Really, does anybody give a damn how good a bowler you are? It was the perfect sport to choose to capture some airtime.
What would get you as much mileage? Golf? No. Pool? No. Poker? Heck no! See all those have risk. Bowling was perfect.
I just wish they would have had a lobbing contest while they were at it. But some of those bowling alleys got no sense of humor...
Every four years, the pundits portray the Democratic nominee as feminine, and it's supposed to be funny.
But some of us don't find it funny anymore.
Tommy
I'm halfie on this
Part of me understands that this is the nature of the show, its a boys club atmosphere where the line gets pushed for ratings, the old IMUS slot
The other part of me also recognizes a trend. Maybe if conservatives mixed it up a little more as to what they consider funny, I don't know, but the feminization of liberals is getting old
Hating gays and toting guns don't make you a man, but what the F is up with a score of 37, Obamas my guy but damn
The point for me is how would the candidate handle the ribbing or the teasing him or herself with stuff like this. I think Obama would probably laugh at it, or shrug it off, or realize it's the nature of the business and wouldn't give it much thought.
People who want to see something in this will find some nefarious underbelly of hideous liberal bashing at work here, the rest of us understand the mindless, harmless drivel of much of cable talk these days, and roll our eyes.
To a degree its the Richard Gere thing
After you hear it enough times you believe it to be true
But I agree, Scarborough is doing a eunuched Imus
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, well, 15 million Big Macs later, I don't think that name applies, honey.
LOL
Having seen what the men who bowl look like I for one am truly glad that Joe can bowl and Obama can't. Seriously, Joe seem to be having a little too much fun with a joke that had grown old by the 3rd or 4th time he told it and sorry but bowling doesn't meet my manly test.
Now basketball.......
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0712/price.obama/content.7.html
Pearl,
Why does everyone want a 6 pack when they can have a whole case? ;)
Why does everyone want a 6 pack when they can have a whole case? ;)
LOL
With a case you get the Beer Belly Blues.
Beer belly blues... what color are my new shoes...
'cause my feet & belt buckle are things I rarely see.
My problem is not my glands,
it comes poured from aluminum cans,
and Pabst Blue Ribbon's been awfully good to me.
Beer belly blues... what color are my new shoes...
'cause my pants & my zipper are things I rarely see.
My Momma says I'm big-boned...
I can't fit in her mobile home...
and Old Milwaukee's been awfully good to me.
Pearl,
you just found your "outside" voice!
GE makes the bombs
ABC tells the lies
So go ask McCain if he is a child molester? Or start your own campaign to get that out there in the people's minds, go on, stop telling someone else to do it, put your money where your mouth is.
Your comparisons never quite hold up in intelligent conversation, do they? But keep trying.
So your idea of an intelligent conversation is to float the idea that McCain is a child molester as some valid comparison to skewering Obama about his bowling prowess? Or are you going to haul out the notion that I molest small furry animals again, another of your classics.
Sorry, if that is your idea of anything remotely beyond idiotic, find someone else to engage "intelligently".
No, Tommy is not stupid, but he must be a masochist to put up with your redundant unimaginative insults.
And how about this from 1965:
When I'm watchin' my TV
And that man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarettes as me
Oooh..must be a right winger, right?
Just because the same tactic was used in an old ad campaign
As far as I know, those of us in the US know those lines from somewhere else, not an "old ad campaign". You don't get it, do you?
Men have been dissing other men about not being "real men" for many years, most often over silly things such as drinking the right drink, driving the right car, or prowess in various sports.
MMFA has started yet another thread about this, this time with Chris Matthews as the "offender". One of the links MMFA cites in this post is about a NYT article about how great BHO is at pick-up basketball.
Fuss about this stuff if you want. I am outtahere.
You hiveminders are USED to believing what you are TOLD to believe and you have been instructed that as loyal morons of the Limborg that anything venal a wingnut says that cannot be defended any other way is funny. That seems to be your definition of funny. That however doesnt mean it actually IS funny.
If you ever understood a single thing ever said by anyone not on Screechmonkey radio, THAT would be a first. You are stupid POV. That really isnt anyone elses fault. You got spanked in a thread the other day because you were WRONG. Get over it. It is going to happen again and again. Let me help you out of a sense of pity. Here is the thing. You cant make decent arguments because you are cemented into this Manichean black white thinking and you dont know WHY you believe what you believe. The hivequeen said it, you believe it, that settles it. So when you are SHOWN to be wrong by the facts you spin in hysterical circles embarassing yourself. The Limborg CANT be wrong or there is no order in your universe. So you dispute FACTS that no one anywhere is disputing to defend the lies you have been told and are regurgitating. When confronted with an actual logical argument you freeze up. Since higher brain function is completely beyond you the only tactic you have is to reach into your grab bag for another hivemind talking point no matter how irrelevant and embarass yourself further. You need help. Nothing you can do about being so stupid. THAT is just your burden to bear. Perhaps you may learn that everything a Screechmonkey tells you on the radio isnt necessarily true. Maybe you can train yourself to understand simple concepts. Most likely you are doomed to go through life, brainwashed, ignorant, and pathetic. Good luck with that.
Wrong POINT OF VIEW. There is a secret cabal of powerful men in the media who met every Monday and try to figure out ways to make Democrats look like pansies. It just so happens that they were able to communicate to Joe Scarborough right after their morning meeting that he needed do just this to Obama under the guise of joking conversation. Obvioulsy they don't want anyone to "really" know their secret and Joe Scarborough, being a willing participant, pulled it off beautifully. Only a select few who are not under the spell of Rush Limbaugh are able to see what is really going on. The rest of us are simpletons, who when we hear what is obvioulsy to us a joke, cannot distinguish that it is really secret liberal bashing by the corporate right wing media who wants to feminize all Democrats so Republicans can rule the world!!!!!
Finally somebody explains it CONSICELY, instead of takin' a whole page (mostly insults) like Solon, and puttin' us to sleep in the process.
Thanks.
"You know, Willie, the thing is, Americans want their president, if it's a man, to be a real man. They -- 1984, I remember Ronald Reagan goes to South Boston. He holds up that beer mug --"
I know their joking, but did everyone see Bush's first pitch at the National's new park? To copy from a commenter on another blog "did you see where the ball wound up? As in everything else he does, President (expletive)'s emphasis was on force, not accuracy."
When politicians attempt this kind of thing for a photo-op & fail miserably, they are going to get some good natured ribbing.
I mean a 37? Geez I bet I did better than that when I was a 8 yrs old! I haven't bowled in years but I know I'd at least break 150 or better.
Pretending to be a bowler or a hunter or whatever to appeal to certain voters is always a risk if you don't have a clue what your doing.
Still say he's a helluvaman just because he was willing to finish a line that was gonna make him look like a BAD BOWLER. He coulda looked at his watch after the first coupla frames and said "Hey, we gotta get goin'." But he didn't. He finished it.
And he got a lot of minutes in the media devoted to it. And nobody cares if you bowl a 37. In fact they like it, and like you better.
So it was brilliant.
This is the real stuff. True corporate filth.
This is rock-ribbed, Republican filth.
I can't bowl a 150 either. But I could kick Morning Joe's @$$...
You'd have to stand in line to do that. :-)
You have to have a pretty large codpiece for it to fit an aircraft carrier.
And W ain't carryin' no aircraft, ifyaknowwhatImean...
Yet no one asks why he doesn't photo op other ranch type chores
Because shoveling crap is his day job, and when he goes to the "ranch" it's to get away from all that.
yeah, THERE's a criteria for electability...
damn...
Americans... if we're to believe they're *not* dumb
...then we're supposed to politely ignore that they're simply led by the nose... ?
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In pants suit or skirt?
"[G]ood natured ribbing"? Sorry, jeter2, I have to disagree. Maybe if Maverick of the Living Dead was the bowler-- Scarborough and his fellow corporate media infotainwhores would've spun the lame showing with smarmy affection-- Maverick's Got Game! Attaboy! For he's a jolly good fellow!
From the ginned-up derision about Gore's "earth tones" (and the abominable Dowd sneering that he was practically "lactating") through Kerry's windsurfing and asking for an uncool kind of cheese (Swiss) on his cheese steak, there is a settled practice in the US corporate media of emasculating (male) Democratic candidates.
Whether Scarborough consciously and deliberately joins the chorus, or just drifts into it by absorbing the infotainment elite meme, it's hardly an isolated or anomalous reaction. The rule is to "humorously" or "facetiously" demean any promising (male) Democratic candidate, by reinforcing the message that the candidate is a big pussy who runs/throws like a girl. (Not to mention closet queen Tweety Matthews, who adds his own idiosyncratic psychosexual spin in defining Manly Men-- he's probably more interested in how Obama's bowling shoes smell.)
The purpose of this superficially "good natured" derision is to diminish and undermine the candidate's appeal and attractiveness using a "death of a thousand cuts" approach. It's unfortunate that this transparent subliminal seduction is rationalized or blown off as insignificant. And it's probably effective beyond the 25% or so of the Amerikan population who are more or less wingnuts, mired in primitive, lizard-brain proto-thought.
BTW, I'm not an Obama supporter, although to me it's obvious that his intellect and character is of a far higher caliber than the competition.
Brzezinski has the best comment in this exchange:
To Scarborough: "Oh, come on!"
"You know, Willie, the thing is, Americans want their president, if it's a man, to be a real man. They -- 1984, I remember Ronald Reagan goes to South Boston. He holds up that beer mug -- ... -- in that South Boston pub, and everybody's like, "He's a real man," and I guess Barack Obama's trying to do the same thing, too."
Now I know drinking beer and bowling are linked spiritually but is the fact Reagan can close his hand around a beer mug's handle make him a man? I am baffled by the statement. Sounds like he (Reagan) drank a lot though -- well that would explain trinkle down economics or why he was not woke up when two F-14 Tomcats blew Libyan jets out of the sky, he was passed out or hung over -- better than old, tired, and senile. But do we want that guy on "THE BUTTON" probably not. Who knew Reagan and Bush had so much in common -- the liquor I mean. Well, I guess Cheney too since he shot his friend in the face during a "canned hunt". Now that is manly.
And what of Obama's reputed basketball skills? Isn't B-ball a tad higher than bowling on the manly sports ladder?
In fairness, this is less tasteless than Keith Olbermann saying that McCain should contribute to the economy by wearing more depends.
link
In fairness it IS less tasteless than saying McCain should wear more depends.
"You know, Willie, the thing is, Americans want their president, if it's a man, to be a real man. They -- 1984, I remember Ronald Reagan goes to South Boston. He holds up that beer mug -- ... -- in that South Boston pub, and everybody's like, "He's a real man," and I guess Barack Obama's trying to do the same thing, too."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps Joe has been hanging out with Chris Matthews and has learned to gush over former presidents in an embarassing manner .
Gee, Joe, bowling ain't exactly a sport African-Americans are known to excel in. Once the Jim Crow laws got the boot, after decades of being kept out of bowling alleys except as "pin boys" -- where you never saw them, I might add -- blacks figured out that it was a redneck sport in any case, so why bother? (One might say the same thing about golf, which would not account for Tiger Woods, but golf caddies caught on quick that if you mastered the game you could hobnob with the rich and famous. That was surely one lesson imparted to Tiger by his hip dad.) Bowling is beer and onions; golf, scotch and sirloin, surf and turf.
That Barack would be an inept bowler shouldn't come as much of a surprise. Growing up and bowling from time to time, I never saw an African-American at the lanes. Yeah, yeah, when I took bowling in college just to get the required "P.E." out of the way, the alleys didn't much like "tha nigras" coming around. But I doubt people of color would have bowled in any case. They've got more class. As for Joe the Scar's fey comment equating good bowling with manliness, I betcha Gov. Schwartzenegger bowls gutterballs every time, too. It's just too hoi polloi. Come to think of it, Scarman's a bit of girly boy himself.
Pardon the interruption
But it wasn't "Hee!" it was "Wee!"
As in "Wee! That was fun!"
That is all.