700 Club's Robertson: "Islam is not a religion, it is a political system ... bent on world domination"
SUMMARY: On The 700 Club, Pat Robertson said of Islam: "I want to say it again, and again, and again: Islam is not a religion, it is a political system meant on -- bent on world domination, not a religion. It masquerades as a religion, but the religion covers a worldwide attempt to exercise power and to subjugate the world to their way of thinking."
The April 8 edition of the Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club aired a report featuring an interview with Bernard Lewis, a Princeton University professor of Near Eastern studies, which focused on, in CBN correspondent Chris Mitchell's words, "the struggle ... between Islam and Christendom, two worldviews that contend that theirs is the one true faith." Commenting on the report, co-host Pat Robertson said of Islam: "I want to say it again, and again, and again: Islam is not a religion, it is a political system meant on -- bent on world domination, not a religion. It masquerades as a religion, but the religion covers a worldwide attempt to exercise power and to subjugate the world to their way of thinking." Robertson continued: "They want a caliphate as they had once before; they want all people to be subjected to Sharia and to live under their rules and their domination. It is every bit as insidious as communism, perhaps more so. But to say, 'Well, it's a religion, and you should leave a religion alone,' that's just not the way it works." Robertson also warned "those that don't have any faith": "[L]et me tell you what they're going to do to you will be more horrible than anything you can imagine. And you better understand that Christianity is the way to freedom and not to slavery. This other thing is the way to slavery, not freedom." Before making the comments, Robertson stated: "Well, we've been saying it, but it looks like the political correctness in our society won't let you say it. They make fun of people who speak out boldly against Islam."
As Media Matters for America noted, during the June 12, 2007, edition of The 700 Club, following a report on Muslims in Minneapolis seeking religious accommodations at school and work, Robertson stated, "Ladies and gentlemen, we have to recognize that Islam is not a religion. It is a worldwide political movement meant on domination of the world. And it is meant to subjugate all people under Islamic law." Robertson went on to state that Muslims "want to take over and we want to impose Sharia on you. And before long, ladies are going to be dressed in burqas and whatever garments they would put on them, and next thing you know, men are going to be allowed to have wife-beating and you'll be beheading adulterers and so on and so forth." Media Matters has documented other attacks by Robertson on Muslims.
From the April 8 edition of the Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club:
LEE WEBB (news anchor): Pat, Iran has announced plans to install more centrifuges at its uranium enrichment facility -- as many as 6,000 of the machines are scheduled to be operational soon. It is seen as another slap at the international community. Many believe Iran is developing a covert weapons program. The news of the centrifuges comes on its so-called National Day of Nuclear Technology, a celebration that commemorates the first time Iran enriched uranium in 2006.
Princeton scholar and best-selling author Bernard Lewis is considered by many the world's foremost authority on Islam. During a recent visit to Jerusalem, he sat down with CBN's Chris Mitchell and gave a clear assessment of the threat from radical Islam.
[begin video clip]
MITCHELL: In his 90-plus years on earth, Bernard Lewis has learned to take the long view of history, and in doing so he has a warning for America and the West.
LEWIS: The main message that I am trying to communicate is that we are engaged in a struggle comparable with the two great struggles of the 20th century against Nazism and against Bolshevism. And that it would improve our chances of winning if we understand who we are and who they are, and what it's all about.
MITCHELL: Lewis says the struggle is between Islam and Christendom, two worldviews that contend that theirs is the one true faith. And while millions of secularists in America and Europe fail to see that they're actually involved in such a conflict, the nature of the fight is crystal clear for radical Islamists like Osama bin Laden.
LEWIS: And where you have two religions with the same self-perception, the same sense of mission, the same historical background and the same geographical area, conflict is inevitable. And the conflict has been going on for more than 14 centuries; the crusade and counter crusade, and jihad and counter jihad, conquest and re-conquest, sometimes one side winning, sometimes the other side winning.
MITCHELL: When bin Laden and his fellow radicals drove the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan in the early 1980s, people in the West saw a U.S. victory in the Cold War. But the Islamists saw it as the defeat of one of two major Christian powers.
LEWIS: And now the only obstacle that remains to the worldwide triumph of Islam is the United States, so that is the next target. And that is very clear.
MITCHELL: Many Americans compare the war against radical Islam in Iraq and elsewhere with the Vietnam War. But Lewis says that's the wrong way to look at it.
LEWIS: The difference is, the Vietnamese did not follow us here, except perhaps as refugees seeking asylum. These people will, and I mean, they were already here before this happened. And if you look at their writings, particularly those of Osama bin Laden, not only has -- it is perfectly clear they see this as the final stage in the cosmic struggle between the true believers and the unbelievers and the misbelievers.
MITCHELL: What are the stakes, professor?
LEWIS: The survival of our civilization.
[end video clip]
WEBB: Wow, that's a sobering assessment. Pat.
ROBERTSON: Well, we've been saying it, but it looks like the political correctness in our society won't let you say it. They make fun of people who speak out boldly against Islam. But I want to say it again, and again, and again: Islam is not a religion, it is a political system meant on -- bent on world domination, not a religion. It masquerades as a religion, but the religion covers a worldwide attempt to exercise power and to subjugate the world to their way of thinking.
They want a caliphate as they had once before; they want all people to be subjected to Sharia and to live under their rules and their domination. It is every bit as insidious as communism, perhaps more so. But to say, "Well, it's a religion, and you should leave a religion alone," that's just not the way it works. It is a struggle, and Bernard Lewis is one of the most eminent scholars in the world on this subject. And we appreciate his clear-cut thinking on the matter. But for those that don't have any faith, let me tell you what they're going to do to you will be more horrible than anything you can imagine. And you better understand that Christianity is the way to freedom and not to slavery. This other thing is the way to slavery, not freedom -- Lee.
WEBB: Pat, consumers are flooding the Internal Revenue Service with phone calls about the upcoming rebates guaranteed under President Bush's economic stimulus plan. ABC News reporting that the IRS is receiving an extra 50,000 calls a day, that means employees are being pulled from other duties to man the phones. The agency warned lawmakers that the current tax season could mean a delay in sending out those rebate checks. Rebates sent by direct deposit are supposed to start on May 2nd and paper checks should follow on May 16th.
As I see it, Robertson is a Republican tool and a major playa' in GOP politics. Maybe the MSM should demand that McCain and other Republicans denounce and condemn him the way they asked Obama to reject Reverend Wright. Can you say "double standard?"
So you admit that the MSM is allowing Obama to associate AND befriend a known racist while complaining that if McCain did it then the MSM would be failing to do their job if they didn't report it??
Liberals are such hypocrits! You whine about a religious presence in McCains life, while allowing a racist presence in Obamas life. You whine about people calling athletes "nappy headed hos" while accepting people who call presidential candidates "big f'n whore". Where is your FAKE outrage over name calling now??? Are you demanding she be fired? Or, are you making excuses and rationalizing her punishment as sufficient?? Knowing that all liberals are hypocrits and liars, I suspect you are making excuses and accepting her as a hero for your entire organization.
Liberals are such hypocrits!
"Why do you call me 'Lord, lord' and do not the things that I say?"
Meanwhile, Pastor Wright's church spends its money to help the poor.
Poor white children or poor black children?? Wright is such a racist I doubt he would even give a white child the time of day. If he did it would be against all he teaches in his racist church! And, Obama gets a free ride for having a racist as a mentor, friend and spiritual advisor where others are denegrated for even knowing a Christian.
Liberals are such hypocrits!
Sure "Apple and Oranges." But that isn't the case here since GOP candidates have sworn fealty to these telehucksters dating back to the Reagan administration. Obama never attended service at the Nation of Islam Mosque yet was forced to disavow Farakhan. Remove the plank brother . . .
How can you see a plank in his eye when the log in yours is so large?? Obama couldn't go to the nation of islam church, because he was already attending their competitions church. Whether racism is taught at the nation of islam church or in Wright's church it is STILL racism!! When Obama explains why he stayed in that racist church and gave thousands to it, then we'll find out how much of a racist Obama is (if at all).
Liberals are such hypocrits!
"The Church isnt racist because you say they are or because the hivemind instructed you to beleive it or keep repeating it."
The KKK isn't racist because I say it is, either. They are racist because they CLAIM to be!!
"We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community." + " The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology."
Those come from the church web site: http://www.tucc.org/home.htm
James Cone defines the theology as thus: "Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_theology
Solon (the racist lover) says Rev Wright's church isn't racist because "I" say it is. I agree with Solon (the racist lover) on that point. The church is racist because their vision plan says so. Now is Solon (the racist lover) going to continue supporting this racist church and continue being hypocritical, or not? Since Solon (the racist lover) is a liberal, I suspect he will continue being a hypocrit. That is what liberals do best.
Liberals are such hypocrits!
...and this differs from Christianity HOW?
It's quite curious the way many of you are rushing to this thread to denounce that kooky Robertson for this insulting remarks about Islam, and to use as some defense of that position some of you resort to a little payback in a gratuitous slap at Christianity with equal disrespect.
Pot, meet kettle.
Per usual, your point is lost on me Governor, I have no love lost for Pat Robertson and see him as nothing more than a "religious" opportunist who uses the Christian faith as a political tool for his enrichment. What he says on his behalf is meaningless and irrelevant to me.
Just because I have that opinion of him doesn't mean I feel the need to retaliate in some way by taking a swipe at Christianity, sorry.
Most of the slaps are at ROBERTSON's brand of Christianity. (Heck, half of them are in mocking response to things the man himself has said!) Also at RELIGION in general. And for the most part, I wouldn't say they are UNFAIR...
Religion (of any stripe) and politics don't mix. They should be protected from one another and history is repleat with examples of why this is so. And Radical Christianity (or any form of religious fundamentalism) is as dangerous to those who don't buy into it as any other.
So we don't a whacko funny-mentalist like Patsy telling us about the "dangers of [some other] religion taking over the world." Christian rule would be every bit as oppressive.
Like you said: Pot? Kettle.
I prefer to narrow my opinion and my displeasure for Robertson specifically. I see no reason to take swipes and jabs at Christianity, or any religion for that matter, as well. If you think it's all fair, that is your business.
Does that include the expletives and the nasty cartoons you so eloquently directed at me in the last two days Governor?
That darn pot and kettle thing again.
[I'm being completely serious shen I say that] I'd love to sit down with you someday and debate religion and politics over a couple of beers. I really think we'd have a blast.
Personally? I'll take any chance, and use any stage, to voice my criticism of religion in general and of it's disfunctional involvment in politics in particular. I imagine a lot of people here feel the same way, and as such, just jumped on the thread. I don't share your objection, because I tend to agree with their opinions.
I think people need to be reminded of the DANGERS of religion as often as possible. It does a good enough job on it's own of marketing itself. It certainly doesn't need my help in that way. But in this day and age it does FAR more harm than good, marginally speaking. So when a hypocrite like Patsy starts runnin' his yap, it's sometimes hard to keep our enthusiasm in check when responding.
You may have a point, but it's completely dependant on your point of view.
Nice,
I completely disagree with your characterization of religion. What you don't see are all the good things religion does for people. Unfortunately it is only when someone religious does something bad that you read about it in the context of religion.
Think of all the bad things you read about and label those as non-religious. I think when you add up the two, you'll see the religious in a better context.
(I'm not defending any religion or religious person who does bad things. Their condemnation is warranted.)
"I am a religious person. I believe in God. I dont want to see the problem I spoke of above excaberated by the mixing of religion and politics beyond people using their values to shape their political beliefs."
And that explains WHAT towards your constant unending support of Rev Wright's racist church? You denegrate Robertson for his belief system, yet praise Wright for his belief system. Wright claims to follow/teach a racist belief system, Robertson does not. Yet, Robertson is the fool in this scenerio? Robertson may say a lot of stupid things, but give me some examples of him teaching racism like Wright does. Or, do you approve of churchs that teach racism?!? Solon, why is it so difficult for you to say 'I hate both Wright and Robertson for their teachings'?
Liberals are such hypocrits!
To be clear Tommy, Islam and Christianity have a lot in common. In fact, along with Judaism, the three religions comprise the Abrahamic tradition and share similar texts, beliefs and practices.
But Judaism is the only one of the three that doesn't proselytize. So in that light it's true that there is no difference between Islam and Christianity in wanting to spread their influence and be the dominant religion in the world. So it seems that Robertson is indeed being a hypocrite.
Except that Islamic extremist terrorists, under the tutelage of state sponsored organizations who hope to spread their message do so by slamming planes into buildings, or blowing up subways, or strapping bombs to themselves or waltzing into crowded street markets with the express intent, the EXPRESS intent, of killing as many innocent people as possible - to get their message out.
Please show me a recent example of a state sponsored Christian terrorist who is under the same tutelage and has enacted equal destruction?
It's quite curious the way many of you are rushing to this thread to denounce that kooky Robertson for this insulting remarks about Islam, and to use as some defense of that position some of you resort to a little payback in a gratuitous slap at Christianity with equal disrespect.
Christianity is getting all the respect it deserves in this thread, Tommy. It's no better than any of the other man-made religions - and far worse than many others.
...and this differs from Christianity HOW?
I dont see the pope calling for rapes and murders of those who won't follow him.
I dont see the pope calling for rapes and murders of those who won't follow him.
Don't you remember the Spanish Inquisition? Or the Crusades?
Christianity has as much blood on its hands as any other religion, Columbus.
The Salem (and other) Witch Trials...
Papal orders for the assassination of protestant monarch's...
The Conquest (and genocide) of the Mayan, Aztec and other native American cultures...
The white man's burden. god bless america.
Nice,
Can you provide us with the name of the Pope who ordered whatever assassination you are referring?
You probably do not know that the secular inquisitions at the time were much more violent than the Church's and that the inquisition, was more political than religious. During those inquisitions the Church and State were closely intertwined. In many cases heresy against the church also was thought to be treason against the state.
While conquest took place of the Central American native americans, it was not the religious leaders who subjugated them.
Here's a link you might find enlightening, AA:
http://www.muslimfact.com/bm/in-all-fairness/islam-did-not-originate-torture-and-religious-kill.shtml
hat is why Christianity has moved beyond the 13th century, Islamic extremists that torture and behead should do the same.
Yes, they've moved beyond 13th century techniques - to doing things like waterboarding, numerous attrocities at Gitmo and prisons in Iraq, and the systematic extermination of six million Jews by the "good Chrstians" taking orders from Adolf Hitler.....
WZ;
If you think waterboarding and beheading are equal, you need to get your head reattached
If you think waterboarding and beheading are equal, you need to get your head reattached
When the end result of both is death (as is always the case with beheading, and often the case with waterboardng), then they ARE equal. Dead is dead - no matter how a person dies.
I was going to say something, but forget it. You really want to discuss the death penalty?
Excellent Chris, perfectly stated.
Yet intellectually flawed.
And how do you know what religion I am?
On all the web boards I've seen, only Christians defend Christianity. And since you've stepped up to defend Christianity, I have good reason to benieve that you consider yourself a Christian as well.
Simple. He's speaking from a platform that would support not only CHRISTIAN donimation of this nation's politics and, by extrension, the world, but worse HIS NARROW VIEWPOINT of Christianity. Either is dangerous, and people like him are why.
What's more, in doing so he is clearly forgetting the LESSONS OF HISTORY. Your Nazi analogy is not valid. A more approriate analogy would have been for the U.S. to kill all citizens of German, Italian and Japanese decent during the war, in reposne to the German genocide of the Jews. (And don't forget - we DID imprision and confiscate the proerty of thousands of Japanese American's during the war.) We condemned it because we LEARNED from our past mistakes. (Robertson would have us repeat them! And so would a government dominated by funny-mentalists like him.)
Why is 100's of years ago releavent today? BECAUSE THOSE WHO DON'T LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT.
Oh, so you just made it up, it's ok.
Gov, you're drowing now, take a breather.
If you can't tell me who the power players are, just admit you made it up.
When you are cornered Gov, you manage to even appear more foolish.
Don't ever change! :)
Yes Chris. score a touchdown for the Christian Power Players!
The Christian Power Players are playing football, and everyone else is playing baseball. In other words, the Christian Power Players strike out.
Your metaphors need work. Football players can't strike out.
If everyone else is playing baseball and they're playing football, they've essentially struck out.
Governor,
Your blaming Catholic prelates for the aids plague is silly. You might just as well blame it on the Muslims or Jews.
That was hundreds of years ago. How does that have any bearing on how people and groups conduct themselves now?
Because those people were killing in Christ's name. Kinda flies n the face of what Not Another Conservative posted elsewhere - that Christians are incapable of murder....
I think it is an invalid comparison to say we have no right to condemn something that is happenning now because of the actions of someone hundreds of years ago. That is like saying that the United States had no right to condemn Nazi Germany for genocide since our government massacred the native americans over a hundred years earlier.
Two other mass killings performed by Christians - one in Germany, and one here.
"Because those people were killing in Christ's name. Kinda flies n the face of what Not Another Conservative posted elsewhere - that Christians are incapable of murder...."
Beside the point. It's nothing more than a veiled form of justification to basically excuse murder by radical elements of Islam by saying that Christians did it hundreds of years ago.
Two other mass killings performed by Christians - one in Germany, and one here.
Again beside the point. First of all you'll have a hard time convincing me that the Nazi's were Christians. Secondly, how does the fact that these events took place in any way justify murder by Islamic radicals? Thirdly, the genocide of Native Americans and the Jews by the Nazi's was not simply because of religion. Also, are you really trying to point to these horrible acts as justification to not condemn other acts? Are you really trying to justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior?
It is a lost cause for you to try to convince me otherwise.
No, Chris - it is YOU who are the lost cause....
Actually, Tommy, I was raised Catholic. I left the Church over 30 years ago. Through reading, research, and meditation, I have reached the conclusion that ALL religions are man-made creations designed solely to impose the will of one group of people over an other.
I believe that there IS a power greater than us out there, but it's beyond human comprehension to understand it. That's why I usually refer to that greater power using the New Age terms "Spirit" or "Source".
My anger is not because something is lacking in MY life, Tommy. My anger is because all these so-called Christians thing they have all the answers, yet they don't have a clue.....
In my opinion, you are more than entitled to your feelings about religion and how it is, or is not, for you. I respect that. But you should also respect that other people feel differently and they don't need to be told that just because they share certain tenants of the Christian faith with someone they aren't too fond of, aka Robertson, that their beliefs are somehow condoning Pat Robertson or any other high profile preacher, on TV or elsewhere.
Religion and faith are very personal to everyone, to mock someone because of their faith, or lack of it, is not only disrespectful, but intolerant and rude.
All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing, Tommy. And as long as millions of Christians do not publicly condemn people like Robertson, Dobson, and the others in the Religious Right, it looks like a de facto approval of their actions. Which casts all Christians in a bad light.
I'm gonna drop out of this thread - I have too much work t do. But remember - you have the right to believe what you want to believe, but don't assume that your religion is better than the others. Because it probably isn't.
if you replace "christian" with "islam/muslim" in that last post or yours, it sounds an awful lot like what the VAST MAJORITY of muslims are saying today.
Terrorists aren't real muslims, or real christians
First of all you'll have a hard time convincing me that the Nazi's were Christians.
Well, then read Hitler's own words. I know this is on a web sit called nobeliefs.org, but the quotes are directly from Hitler's speeches:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm
Let's not forget where the enforced xenophobia against the Japanese during World War II made much of where Japan's ultimate aim was nothing short of Total World Domination.
Likewise with the anti-Communist campaigns carried out as part of the Joe McCarthy-era "Red Scare" in the name of "patriotism."
But then again, G-d can show His Unease in the end. Need an example?
Islam is no more monolithic than Christianity. Right John?
In either case the fundamentalists of whichever stripe, never reduced human suffering, nor eased a childs tears.
Somehow Pat has signed onto Al Gore's golbal warming issue. Will this be a, with friends like these, you really don't need a devil, moments/decade/millenium?
In either case the fundamentalists of whichever stripe, never reduced human suffering, nor eased a childs tears.
Have to disagree with you here. While religion (and more notably Christianity as you pickout) is not for everyone, many religions that fall under the christian umbrella have done much good to help human suffering - for example the mandatory mission camps to 2nd and 3rd world countries by the Mormon faith.
While every group - whether it be political, religious, sports, etc - all have their bad apples, your generalizations and group lumping in this case make you no better than when people say "all the liberals are like" while lumping you into the same group.
So word to the wise, practice what you preach son.
Oh, it wasn't me that wrote the original post. I just felt compelled to respond to what I saw as you either misinterpreting or misrepresenting the post. I took the monolithic statement to be a jab at Robertson for assuming that Islam is not filled with diversity of opinion and interpretation, from the vast majority of rational and kind-hearted, to the minority of fundamentalist. Similar to Christianity.
In that context, the second point about fundamentalists of any stripe makes all the sense in the world and shows how Robertson is being a hypocritical, misleading jerk.
"While religion (and more notably Christianity as you pickout) is not for everyone, many religions that fall under the christian umbrella have done much good to help human suffering - for example the mandatory mission camps to 2nd and 3rd world countries by the Mormon faith."
Sure, they have helped to alleviate human suffering, but that doesn't mean that other groups can't do the same thing. Why can't groups do that without irrationally believing that Jesus came to America or that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri?
Religion forces one to look for answers. At least mine does. It relies on 'natural law' as being in union with its religious precepts.
Just because their is an element of belief in religion does not mean critical thinking is tossed out the window.
All I did was defend most people in religions as being very caring and giving people to those who cannot help themselves.
You're way too generous there, Columbus. The majority of religious people (at least in this country) only think about religion when they're in church. They only care about themselves and don't give a damn about their fellow man.
The only truly caring people I've run across in recent years have been Unitarians and Wiccan.
The key word there is fundamentalist. Mormons are not fundamentalists. If you chose to misrepresent my position, well some folks like working with straw.
I know personally many people who do really help people. Some of them do it from a religeous base, some don't. None of them make it a point that everyone acknowledge how wonderful they or their organization are.
Why do you need religion to do good?
Religion takes credit for a LOT of good that would happen anyway, while denying responsibility for the MOUTAINS of harm it does.
To quote (ok, more like paraphrase) Hitchens (my kind of republican): In a secular society, those men of goodwill would continue to do good, while evil men would continue to delight in shirking their responsibilities. But to make a GOOD man do EVIL things: First you have to make him religious.
(And as for religion making an evil man good? Don't make me laugh. More likely the best case scenario is that they'll end up like Roberston, the late Fallwell, Dobson, Donohue, Hagee, Parsley, and other such cretins... Using religion to filll themselves with self-righteousness and justify their filth.)
And while the missions may do some good, but they also serve the self interest of the organization (the church in this case.) The good that's done is incidental. The GOAL is to spread the influence and the point of view of the church. It's not more altruistic than basic corpratism. (Solving someone's problem, at a profit to yourself.)
That is true. Also one of the five pillars of Islam, that is one of the things you MUST DO if you want to call yourself a Muslim is, if you are a man of means you MUST give money to charity. Much good has come from religion and religious people especially to alleviate poverty.
I thought Robertson was dead.
Jerry Falwell and D. James Kennedy are dead. Pat Robertson remains dead from the neck up.
Someone said to me the other day, "Where's Mandela?" And I said, "Mandela's dead!."
Sorry for going off topic, but this little thread reminded me of that timeless gem from our commander in chief.
Sorry for going off topic, but this little thread reminded me of that timeless gem from our commander in chief.
Another example of "dead from the neck up".
"Christianity is not a religion, it is a political system...bent on world domination."
See how that works, Patty?
Christianity is no more about world domination than environmentalism is. Islam itself I do not believe to be about world domination, but the extremist are using it as a pawn for that, and brainwashing people into following them. Thats why, with its mainstream media attention, that its being viewed more as a sadistic cult rather than a religion. There are many peaceful religions that have "bad seeds" exploiting the agenda - like certain mormons who use their faith as a pawn for polygamy & marrying/impregnating underage girls, like the one recently in Texas.
The difference is that this country was founded on the freedom of religioun to practice whatever you want, and the extremist are using Islam to preach that if you are not islamic, then you deserve to die.
Christianity is no more about world domination than environmentalism is.
I have to disagree, most religion has as its basic purpose trying to get as many people as possible to agree.I'm not sure how your comparison to environmentalism works, unless you were purposely picking a cause that's the opposite of world domination. Not really reasonable, as environmentalism is a reality based philosophy, not faith based, and is really a response against world domination.
Environmental protests and the newly formed "global warming" movement are about getting as many people to follow your cause/beliefs as well. They are in different sectors, but much of science & environmentalism is not based on the "what is", but also the "what is not". Same thing as not being able to prove there is, or is not, any form of god.
Every group has their extremes & moderates, and the same characteristic they have to recruit more backers by any means possible.
I dont see them as polar opposites because they both want everyone to do as they would. Dont sin, dont drive an suv, dont abort kids, dont have kids so we can use less CO2.
Personally, I think they can both a bunch of whackjobs and I choose to push both off to the side and be an "individual".
"The difference is that this country was founded on the freedom of religioun to practice whatever you want"
Except if one was a native american - then you were simply exterminated.
"Christianity is no more about world domination than environmentalism is."
The strain of American Christianity, and most notably evangelical Christianity, seeks not to dominate the world but to spread their message so that every person has heard the word of God so the Armageddon can begin. It's also why they support Israel, so the temple can be re-built to bring about Armageddon. Those Jews? Oh, they'll just have to convert to Christianity before the Rapture.
Christianity as an ideology has consistently sought to impose its will on the peoples of the world to facilitate their own dogmatic predictions. In fact, one could reasonably argue that one of the main reasons we support Israel is exactly what I described above.
The difference is that this country was founded on the freedom of religioun to practice whatever you want, and the extremist are using Islam to preach that if you are not islamic, then you deserve to die. - Columbus
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Yes, this country was founded on the freedom of religion. Your argument above, though, is fallacious. Muslims are not using extremist points of view in this country to force people, again, in this country, to convert to their religion. Your post above (which I've re-posted for your convenience) is poorly written in that it seems as though you're positing that fundamentalist Islamists are doing so IN THIS COUNTRY - which is patently absurd.
Christianity is no more about world domination than environmentalism is.
Did you forget about "Manifest Destiny"???
Islam is a religion of peace.
Yemeni Shi'ite rebels destroy rabbi's house
Two killed by terrorists in Nahal Oz
Attack on Road Crew Kills 18 and Injures 7 in Afghanistan
(I could go on and on with this for weeks....)
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As we can clearly see, Robertson is wrong to say that Islam is "bent on world domination." From what I read, it looks like they just want to murder people.
Solon:
Obviously, I was only talking about the Islamic "extremists".
Go Obama!!
"belies that claim"?
I would never want to "belie" a claim. Egads!
Heavens To Murgatroid!!!
From what I read, it looks like they just want to murder people.
If you base your opinion on the actions of a few, it could be said that Christians just want to murder people because Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichold were both Christians, and they bombed the Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
People can call themselves "christian", but the truth is that a real Christian would never murder anyone.
They might kill the radical Islamic scum to try to prevent THEM from murdering people. But a Christian NEVER murders.
Go Obama!
That logic is so retarded. A moslem could use that exact same defense.
A true beleiver of the Koran would never preform Jihad, a person could claim to be moslem, but a true moslem would never kill the innocent.
See, your idiotic argument can defend anyone.
Jesus Christ! I can't beleive you even said that, har har.
Didn't your god command that "somebody" in the bible "kill" every man woman and child, and then punished the guy cuz he spared someone....
har har har.....
You know, I don't really give a flying you know what if people want to accept this ignorant twit as their spiritual leader, mailing him hundreds of thousands of their hard-earned shekels in hopes he'll say a little prayer that will get them into heaven. What I do care about is blindly following his political views, which are so clearly based on racial and ethnic prejudices as well as his seeming contention that Christeranity is "the only TRUE religion."
To me, all of the religions are ignorant superstitions; their leaders, false prophets of mumbo jumbo theology. But that is besides the point. To lump all Muslims into one clump, making them guilty by association with the jihadists, is dumber than dirt. Pat Robber's Son is simply too stupid to sharpen a pencil. If dumb were hairy, he'd be the abominable snowman. As it is, he's just abominable. He makes Dumb and Dumber look like Einstein at the Beach.
Sure, Christers outnumber Muslims worldwide by 12 percentage points, but so what? If you add up all the other faiths (Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, et al.) and add Islam, you come up with all the other religions outnumbering the Christer faithful by at least 20% -- and that doesn't even factor in the agnostics and atheists.
I wish someone would tie Pat down to a chair, give him a Coke with about 1,500 miles of d-lysergic, and make him listen to the latest George Carlin comedy special on HBO. George wonders why so many Americans go about with "God Bless America" on their lips. "What makes Americans think God is so concerned about us he's going to bless us and no one else?" He also wonders if God isn't kind of indecisive, being unable to make up his mind as to whether women should cover their heads (in cathedrals) or never cover their heads (in synagogues).
Religion is ordure and Pat Robber's Son is the Number One Shoveler of it.
I've heard alot of people wish alot of misery on Pat Robertson, but dosing him and making him listen to George Carlin is fantastically "cruel and unusual" punishment.
Kudos! So crazy it just might work?
Such sweet oblivion it must be to trust your life to men who are lying to your face.
This old tele-preaching guy seems pretty informed on this matter...
I guess all those many hours of holding hands and closing eyes (tightly) and speaking aloud to the LORD...
All in front of the Lights Camera Action! of a television studio, for the benefit of a television audience (phone lines are open, for your donations to the Ministry)...
I guess all of that televised prayer has paid off, into an invaluable insight into Politics and Religion.
Maybe the old tele-preaching guy should run for President of the United States.
Oh BTW, I have it from a good source (at least I believed them), who once attended a closed taping of the old tele-preacher guy's television show, that right in the middle of one of those hand-holding eyes-tightly-closed on-air prayer episodes that this old guy makes his Stock in Trade...
Right in the middle of speaking aloud to the LORD, a set light, a rather bright and importantly placed set light, went out POP! and DARK!...
And the director of the taping said "hold on a minute, we have a technical problem"...
And the old tele-preaching guy pinched off his words to the LORD, and opened up his tightly closed eyes, and saw what the issue was...
And he let go of the hand of the other person, and sat back in his seat... and while he had rather abruptly stopped talking aloud to the LORD, still, he didn't say anything out loud, to anyone, about the set light going out...
He just sat back, and waited for it to be replaced... and my source added (and I believed him) that while the old tele-preaching guy didn't say anything while he waited for the set light to be replaced, he did look sort of pizzed-off and grumpy over the delay...
In any case, my source says that the old tele-preaching sure did pinch off taking aloud to the LORD, immediately... leaving Him hanging too, maybe also grumpy and pizzed-off for the delay, He having so many other things to do, beside listening to the taping of the old tele-preaching guy's television show,
Let's not forget his connection to illegal diamond running in Africa. I'm sure G-d approved.
I gotta get to work, no time to google this, but it's out there (happened a few years ago).
On The 700 Club, Pat Robertson said of Islam: "I want to say it again, and again, and again: Islam is not a religion, it is a political system meant on -- bent on world domination, not a religion. It masquerades as a religion, but the religion covers a worldwide attempt to exercise power and to subjugate the world to their way of thinking."
The same could be said of Christianity.
I'm surprised no one has commented upon this little gem:
"But for those that don't have any faith, let me tell you what they're going to do to you will be more horrible than anything you can imagine. And you better understand that Christianity is the way to freedom and not to slavery. This other thing is the way to slavery, not freedom"
Ah yes; Christians – as opposed to Muslims - have historically been very accommodating to atheists. We all know that the medieval nonbeliever headed to the Inquisition any time he or she felt a bit stressed. Boiling treatments, blood facials, torn ligaments; why, I dare say it was the equivalent of a modern-day spa!
And I don’t know bout you, but his offer of freedom is almost too good to pass up. To preserve my Constitutional rights, I need merely pledge unquestioning obedience to an invisible man who lives in the sky. Vis-à-vis his earthly interpreter of course, who alone possesses the ability to communicate – magically – with said invisible man.
Such a deal!
The Jihadists cannot conquer this country, but nutballs like Robertson can influence our own government to implement policies which could lead to our self destruction. Sure, the turrists might get their hands on a dirty bomb and do us great harm, but if a President McCain takes Hagee's rantings too seriously, he could easily start WWIII, which we might not survive.
The Jihadists cannot conquer this country, but nutballs like Robertson can influence our own government to implement policies which could lead to our self destruction.
And this is different than environmentalist influence? That could lead our economy into self destruction - as its already played a portion of the role in our ever decreasing manufacturing industry. I dont like religious influence in government, but lets sit down and look at the facts. The country was founded mainly on the freedom of religion - so I do not see that influence changing anytime soon.
"That could lead our economy into self destruction"
As opposed to what's happening now because of our reliance on a coal-based economy?
environmentalism, as a social movement rather than political movement, can and will create new economies that can move us into a new era that doesn't rely on the finite supply of coal and oil. If we do something now, we can avoid a new global war that will definitely be based on oil.
As opposed to what's happening now because of our reliance on a coal-based economy?
Actually, if our economy was based on coal, as opposed to oil, we would be more dominant since we have more than anyone else in the world, and a proven stash of more than hundreds of years worth. However, I think you meant to say "fossil fuels", and in that case, right now, I believe the problem to be more political than anything else - the amount of oil left is not the problem at all. its the economys value of the dollar, and political agendas of the middle east to further their gains (ala Dubai?!). Reliance on foreign oil is a major problem - but there are more ways to deal with it than just scrapping it for an environmental movement.
Actually, the amount of oil (and coal) left in the ground is the ultimate problem to a fossil-fuel based system. If you haven't read much about peak oil, I would highly suggest doing so. Even if you disagree that we are at peak oil now, the time will come and it will be a global disaster when we start going down the other side, unless we were smart enough to really develop renewable alternatives before that happens.
As opposed to coal, which is the dirtiest and most destructive extraction and refinement process we have. I know we have "clean coal" technology, but we don't force plants to retrofit, and the extraction is still horribly destructive. And, it still is a finite resource.
I am continually amazed that we are latching on to a form of energy that was developed over 100 years ago when we have advanced so much in so many other ways. It's the same reason why we value random elements like gold and diamonds, still. It's just greed and stupidity.
Colubus' argument also ignores the already rapidly developing green industry. There is a lot of money to be made for people willing to be creative and forward thinking. Just because something forces the dinosaurs to adapt, doesn't mean it's bad for the rest of us. The green economy is a win-win on multiple levels and if the backward-thinking repub politicians would stop trying to protect their dinosaur contributors in the business world, they would realize that assisstance towards this new economy is far smarter than pushing money towards the status-quo and the industries that are the cause of the problem, not the solution.
Good points, Jawill. And I wish the rightys would settle on one of their lefty conspiracies; either it's world domination through gasoline taxes, or through elimination of fossil fuels. It's really sad to see tham being paranoid about two contradictory scams.
And I know colubus wasn't a typo.
Ha. No, so far I think Columbus has been mostly level headed in his/her disagreements that I've seen and doesn't warrent namecalling from me. I'll save that for some other rightie commenters out there (go Obama!)
It's funny that repubs seems to love those contradictory conspiracy theories, much like the confusion between Obama being a radical Christian or a secret Muslim. It's very telling that their followers don't realize the contradiction.
Nerzog,
What you fail to realize is that you wouldn't have your government if it were not for Christianity.
Here are a few things that come to my mind that you may not realize:
Christianity introduced the idea of separation of church and state.
Christianity teaches equality of men, women, children before God.
Christianity is responsible for the eventual eradication of slavery.
Christianity teaches that laws should not be based on the whims of men.
Christianity exhorts people to be better, to give to others, to be charitable.
Christianity respects science and the revelations science provides.
Christianity teaches social justice.
Have at times the teachings of Christianity been corrupted and religious leaders been hypocrites and sinners themselves. Definitely! The religious institutions are comprised of human beings who are flawed. The blame goes to the people who failed, not Christianity.
"Christianity teaches that laws should not be based on the whims of men."
Actually, it teaches that laws are based on the whims of a jealous God, to whom they do not apply. Not much better, in my view.
Yeah right we have heard that stupid meme a thousand times. Except by that logic there is no such thing as a Democracy anywhere in the world and arent we bringing Democracy to Iraq?
http://mw4.m-w.com/dictionary/democracy
1 a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections2: a political unit that has a democratic government
So I guess you didnt have a point except in the sense it was a Limborg TALKING POINT.
The topic of discussion is about 'what Islam is all about' and not about Paterson. Is it not time for people to really think and speak against what Islam is doing and preaching in the name of religion. It is ridiculous to compare Christian and other religion in the same tone as Islam. For people who have no idea about what Islam is all about, please read and find out what is happening in countries where the majority religion is Islam. The minorities in that country is vanishing. Why is that!! So for a change if somebody like Robertson preaches about the Islam, listen to what he has to say.
At least in Christian religion dominated countries people have tthe freedom to practise and preach their religion in public, irrespective of extreme fundamentalist on that side. They need not be afraid to joke about or write their views and opinions about their religion without being afraid of being preosecuted, persecuted and 'fatwa' being issued for their killing.
Islam is a Political system which will just bring about Saudi or afghanistan like rule and only the Christian God or other religious Gods can save democracy, human rights and values and freedom of free speech and not ISLAM
Dazed- You obviously don't know much. Wishing that religion would go away is pretty pie-in-the-sky.
The part of religion that many on this site seem to miss is that religions are 'truth systems,' a world-view. Inasmuch as they are seen as Truth, people don't easily change from them. Inasmuch as they are seen as Truth, people who believe in them do not feel free to change or invent concerning them.
Someone above stated that the advances credited to Christianity in W. Civ. are merely an 'accident of history.' You could say the same thing about the sunrise each morning. But some people are able to discern a causal relationship between the spinning of the Earth and the sunrise. Likewise between the Reformation and Western Civilization's advances.
"At least in Christian religion dominated countries people have tthe freedom to practise and preach their religion in public, irrespective of extreme fundamentalist on that side. They need not be afraid to joke about or write their views and opinions about their religion without being afraid of being preosecuted, persecuted and 'fatwa' being issued for their killing."
Africa, specifically Nigeria.
Islam is only going through what Christianity went through for hundreds of years. Would you have called Christianity a world-dominating political system during the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition?
DB,
To call Christianity world dominating political system during the crusades or Spanish Inquisition is too simplistic. Obviously during the crusades, Christianity was in retreat due to Islamic conquerization. Not to mention that Christianity hadn't gained a footing in sub-Saharan Africa, India, the far East or the Americas.
The Spanish Inquisition was an ecclesiastical tribunal, and had jurisdiction only over baptized Christians. The Inquisition worked in large part to ensure the orthodoxy of recent converts.
The archives of the Inquisition, in comparison to those of other judicial systems of the era, are striking in the completeness of their documentation. From 1476 to 1834 an estimated 2,000 people were executed. That represents about 5 or 6 people a year. Not a good record by any stretch, but considering 41 people were executed in the United States in 2007, it puts it into perspective.Oh, really? Theocracy is the enemy of freedom, no matter which religion is at its head.
Apparently, you subscribe to the Mitt Romney theory that "Freedom requires Religion". Sorry, but I don't buy it.
Nerzog,
Without religion to provide a basis for justice, I do believe we'd all be at the whims of some dictator.
As an interesting side note, can you name any free country that had at it's basis atheism?
"Islam is not a religion, it is a political system ... bent on world domination"
If true, it has that much in common with Pat Robertson's brand of Christianity.
Any religion can be corrupted by the people who espouse it. History is replete with examples. Religion, after all, is a human construct and, therefore, imperfect.
Without religion to provide a basis for justice, I do believe we'd all be at the whims of some dictator.
AA, do you believe that the U.S. was founded on Christian principles? If so, what are they and please cite biblical scriptures that them it up.
As an interesting side note, can you name any free country that had at it's basis atheism?
What do you mean, "had at its basis"? There is no such thing as a country founded on atheism, but there are free, modern countries where the majority of the population do not believe in God (i.e. Scandinavian countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark).