Wash. Times asserted McCain "doesn't intend to make" Wright "a political issue," but aides have reportedly distributed materials about Wright
SUMMARY: The Washington Times' Andrea Billups wrote that Sen. John McCain's "low profile during the Wright flap suggests he doesn't intend to make it a political issue, even if others in his party do." But Billups did not report that a McCain campaign aide reportedly distributed a video that "splices together the most inflammatory language of Jeremiah Wright with a series of other issues that have arisen in the campaign."
In an April 14 Washington Times article headlined "McCain keeps his faith out of politics," reporter Andrea Billups, referring to the controversy surrounding comments by Rev. Jeremiah Wright, former pastor of Sen. Barack Obama's church, wrote that Sen. John McCain's "low profile during the Wright flap suggests he doesn't intend to make it a political issue, even if others in his party do." Billups also uncritically quoted Republican strategist Cheri Jacobus saying: "The Reverend Wright comparison might help McCain in the short run to gain political points, but it should not be surprising that instead, McCain is keeping his integrity intact and will talk about his beliefs and religion at a time of his own choosing." But Billups did not report that a McCain campaign aide reportedly distributed a video titled "Is Obama Wright?" that, as the Politico's Jonathan Martin reported, "splices together the most inflammatory language of Jeremiah Wright with a series of other issues that have arisen in the campaign," and "includes footage of Malcolm X, the U.S. Olympians who raised their hand in the black power salute and the song 'Fight the Power.' "
On March 20 Martin reported that "[a]n aide to John McCain was suspended from the campaign today for blasting out an inflammatory video that raises questions about Barack Obama's patriotism." Martin wrote that the staffer, "who works in McCain's political department, sent out the YouTube link of 'Is Obama Wright?' on twitter at 12:31 today with the tag, 'Good video on Obama and Wright.' It has since been taken down." Additionally, on the March 20 edition of CNN's The Situation Room, CNN Internet correspondent Abbi Tatton reported that "John McCain staffer Soren Dayton" viewed the video, "then sent it out through the website Twitter," and "[t]hat got Dayton suspended today from the McCain campaign."
Also, the McCain campaign reportedly circulated to reporters a Wall Street Journal op-ed in which Newsmax.com chief Washington correspondent Ronald Kessler wrote that "Obama's close association with" Wright "raises legitimate questions about Mr. Obama's fundamental beliefs about his country," which "deserve a clearer answer than Mr. Obama has provided so far." On March 14, Martin reported in the Politico that the McCain campaign "included an op-ed from the WSJ written by Ron Kessler about Obama's pastor today in its morning clips." Subsequently, McCain's campaign reportedly said it sent the op-ed "in error."
Moreover, on the March 27 edition of CNN's Anderson Cooper 360, Time magazine's Mark Halperin asserted that "if you talk to McCain people about it, they are -- you choose your metaphor -- licking their chops, whatever you'd like to say. They believe that, if this does not derail his chances of being the nominee, that it will be invaluable to them in gaining support amongst key constituencies -- that's code for white voters -- in the general election."
From the April 14 Washington Times article:
Don't expect any public testimonies of faith from presidential candidate Sen. John McCain, who is not demonstrative about his religion but who embraces a Baptist faith that is based on salvation.
The religious intentions of Democratic candidate Sen. Barack Obama were dissected after he publicly explained his decadeslong relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., but the senator from Arizona likely will talk little about the details of his own spiritual path other than to acknowledge that he is on one.
[...]
As the Obama pastor furor subsided, some political observers said voters may find Mr. McCain's disdain of overt religion refreshing. His low profile during the Wright flap suggests he doesn't intend to make it a political issue, even if others in his party do.
Mr. McCain's near silence also indicates that he is "wary of phony outward display," said Wilfred McClay, a professor of humanities at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. He added that such an action could be simply generational for the 71-year-old lawmaker. In his day, public discussion of the details of one's personal faith was considered inappropriate.
"The evidence suggests that his true religion is kind of civil religion, a religion of American patriotism and of sacrifice for the nation in the name of living for something larger than yourself," Mr. McClay said. "That general idea -- that you find your greatest fulfillment and purpose in dedicating your life to something more than yourself -- is in some ways very Christian, but McCain always expresses it in the secular terms of country."
Miss Jacobus said Mr. McCain's low-key approach to his faith ultimately may help him as the election cycle continues.
"His compelling, raw personal history may explain his reticence to talk about faith and religion in this current climate where Obama's choices with regard to how, where and with whom he practices his religion, and the churches he chooses to bring his daughters to, is so controversial," she said. "The Reverend Wright comparison might help McCain in the short run to gain political points, but it should not be surprising that instead, McCain is keeping his integrity intact and will talk about his beliefs and religion at a time of his own choosing."
From the March 27 edition of CNN's Anderson Cooper 360:
HALPERIN: All right. You know that "Monty Python" thing where he says I want to answer that question in two ways, first in my normal voice, and then in a high, squeaky pitch?
[laughter]
HALPERIN: I sort of feel like that.
Look, on one level, I think this is a distraction. Reverend Wright is not running for president. Barack Obama is. He's answered. Voters can make of it what they will.
You know, Jessica [Yellin, CNN Capitol Hill correspondent] said that some of his aides think that this is only a press creation. Well, I was just dining across the street from the CNN Center here with one of Obama's top aides. And that's not the impression I got from him, although I do agree that some of his aides say that.
They see this as a long-term discussion that they're going to have to have, they assume, through November, because they think Obama will be the nominee, and that there's still more explaining to do with some voters who currently are very fixed in their -- in their view of what's happened and don't look more favorably on Barack Obama because of it.
But, over the long term, they think they can convince people. But it is the addition of these new facts, the new church bulletins, and perhaps additional new facts that are coming that make people think that the current polls may be a snapshot of what people think so far in some parts of the country, but that in parts coming up, maybe Pennsylvania, for instance, that this could be a problem.
ANDERSON COOPER (host): So, we don't know at this point. And what I'm hearing you say is the campaigns themselves, more importantly, they do not know how this is going to play out, the ramifications of this, in Pennsylvania and elsewhere?
HALPERIN: Well, I will tell you that the Clinton campaign believes that this will and should -- probably more should -- play out in the course of the nomination fight, and that, if it doesn't, they think it will be injustice.
They also think that it is a ticking time bomb. And, if you talk to McCain people about it, they are -- you choose your metaphor -- licking their chops, whatever you'd like to say. They believe that, if this does not derail his chances of being the nominee, that it will be invaluable to them in gaining support amongst key constituencies -- that's code for white voters -- in the general election. Now, they may be wrong, and the Obama campaign may be right that this will be resolved for them, and not derail his chances of being president. But I will tell you, it is one of the many areas of confluence of agreement between what the Clinton campaign thinks and the McCain campaign thinks. And they're pretty close observers of all this.
COOPER: All right, we're going to have more from Mark and from Candy [Crowley, CNN senior political correspondent] on this topic and also other topics coming up.















Of course McCain doesn't intend to smear Obama by attacking Wright. He'll just leave that to the "independent" 527 groups, like the Swift Boaters, that'll pop up as soon as Obama is nominated.
I'll tell you what, Columbus, if moveon finds some guys who lie about serving with McCain, yes, it will be similar to the Swift Boats. If Moveon.org wins awards from liberal groups for such a campaign based on lies like the Boaters did, yes it will be the same. If moveon finds guys who change their stories they have told for 30 years for an ad campaign, it will be similar. If moveon puts these same liars on with liberal talk show hosts who don't challenge lies about McCain, it will be the same, until then, it won't be.
Moveon.org does not engage in smear tactics, Columbus - unless you consider telling the truth to be a smear.
But then, you've proven that you have been separated from the truth for so long that you wouldn't recognize the truth if it came up and slapped you upside the head.
broughtplagueandstdstotheseshoresin 1492,
Oh, that's hitting them where it hurts! Right in the hypocrisy bone!
Now didn't McCain fire the guy who leaked those tapes that were already available to the buying public from Wright's website? Yes he did! How in the world could Media Matters (for very little) have glossed over that? Well, its a good thing that we can encourage them to keep track of who does and who doesn't keep their word about staff.
"Additionally, on the March 20 edition of CNN's The Situation Room, CNN Internet correspondent Abbi Tatton reported that "John McCain staffer Soren Dayton" viewed the video, "then sent it out through the website Twitter," and "[t]hat got Dayton suspended today from the McCain campaign.""
Here's what is gemane to the topic and not the whole program transcript:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/20/mccain-camp-suspends-staffer-over-wright-video/
Here's the real scoop about the democrat campaigns:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/04/13/behind_scenes_campaign_aides_wage_harsh_battle/
His low profile during the Wright flap suggests he doesn't intend to make it a political issue, even if others in his party do.
Of course he doesn't, yet. He isn't running against Obama yet. Besides he knows he doesn't have to mention anything about it. The right ring hack radio stooges will do it for him. The all Rev. Wright hour that is the Sean Hannity Show.
The rants of gasbag Rev. Wright will be played loud and often by Clinton and/or McCain. That's the price Obama will have to pay for sitting in the pew and listening to Wright for 20 years.
He can't explain it away as easily as issuing a few sound bite rebuttals.
The problem with your delusion there wes is that the Wright controversy has passed it's peak. And as has been pointed out so often on this site, the vast majority of the people scared by Rev Wrights words never would have voted for Obama in the first place. The Rev. Wright controversy will make up for the mess the republicans have put us in.
A cynical skeptic could possibly, maybe, make a ballpark assumption that certain pro-Clinton forces just want to keep this story alive and kicking for as long as it can.
?
the vast majority of the people scared by Rev Wrights words never would have voted for Obama in the first place.
Great point.
-- The problem with your delusion -- dazed
I'd be glad to listen or read any sermons that are uplifting...point me the way.
I'd be glad to listen or read any sermons that are uplifting...point me the way. - Wesley
From what I've heard from members of Wright's congregation who have listened to him for years, that would be almost all of Wright's sermons. That's why, with 36 years of sermons, thousands of hours of them recorded, his critics have only been able to dredge up a few seconds of controversial comments from a small handful of sermons separated by years.
But, of course, smear merchants would never let little things like context, balance and proportion interfere with their destructive goals.
I understand your attempt to defend Wright/Obama...but I'm not convinced by a "handful of members" defending the black liberation theology professed by their pastor.
This is not an attempt to defame the theology...I have done as Rev.Wright suggested and looked into the writings of Jim Cone...the father of black liberation theology. It is not full of hate...but he certainly professes "some" hateful, racists teachings.
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/PrintFriendly?oid=oid%3A20652
This site has a pretty balanced interview with a Tulsa,OK pastor on Rev. Wright and black liberation theology.
In the meantime, in the absence of the uplifting messages that are attributed to Rev. Wright...I have seen what I have seen...and I don't like it one damn bit.
If you have any links that provide the uplifting teachings of Wright...I'd be glad to look at them.
Sorry the link doesn't work...maybe you can try manually.
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/PrintFriendly?oid=oid%3A20652
Wesley,
Could you please link me to McCain's preacher's sermons? Could you explain why he went from being an Episcopalian in the 1990s to a Baptist in the 2000s? If he is a Baptist, why has no one asked him if he is a Southern Baptist? If he is, can I attribute all of their radicalism to McCain?
When I taught school, I went to a Lutheran church that was all-black and gave them money. They had some political preachings. Have you ever experienced the community of a black church, Wesley?
If you are wounded by the "chickens coming home to roost" line, did you know he was quoting a former Reagan ambassador?
Here is one positive Wright sermon:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/24/41932/0831/52/483025
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7LxAKgYeI&feature=related
Here is the church's youtube site:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=TRINITYCHGO&p=r
Wesley, please show me the preachings of McCain's minister and please tell me that he doesn't think that homosexuality is an abomination.
Obama's church's youtube site is probably a mixed bag, but it is what it is. Do I, as a voter, deserve to know why McCain abandoned the Episcopal Church in favor of the Baptists?
Thanks for the links...they provide a very different perspective on Wright...especially his stance opposing abortion.
McCain's religion? Sorry bergboy but I have no interest or intention of defending McCain's religous beliefs.
But after viewing the positive videos on the sermons of Rev.Wright...a calmer, God fearing Christian man...it begs the question...why was Obama so quick to throw him under the bus?
Anyone interested in a more rounded view of Rev.Wright would spend their time wisely by following your links. Am I convinced of the Rev.'s motives? Not yet. Has my opinion changed on Wright? Yep.
Wesley,
I guess I misstated my McCain question. I am not asking you to defend McCain, but rather since Wright's sermons are a big deal and religion seems to be a question for Obama, why, in your mind, is McCain's change of a lifelong religion not a story.
I am just wondering, from your perspective, with faith being an issue, is his change of heart not examined.
Wesley,
I believe Obama threw him under the bus because none of the media would do what I did, namely search in google for "uplifting" and "wright" and "sermon" on google. The media has shown, outside of perhaps Anderson Cooper, no willingness to dig deeper on this issue and seems to be content to play what appears to be (I don't know for sure, I don't go to his church) a discreet portions of Wright's teachings. Obama did say he had not heard Wright say the things that were mentioned in the press over and over. Obama, in his speech, mentioned the positives of Wright (his military service and his community service), but the networks and media didn't show any of the links that were so easy for me to find.
What would you have recommended Obama do differently?
He could have stuck by Wright more staunchly by doing what you did...demonstrate to the bottom feeding media...the other side of Wright...the one that he so strongly endorsed.
And don't jump to the conclusion that I wanted Obama to fight for Wright in order to see him embroiled in more media controversy. I would have found it refreshing to see him come out slugging...refusing to let the scumbag media set the agenda.
Because he didn't do any such thing.
Obama embraced the man and rejected a handful of harsh words.
Remember?
Rememeber that time Obama gave that speech in Philadelphia in which he said that he could no more disown Rev. Wright than he could disown his white grandma who said some bigoted things?
Christ on a bike, dude. Are you deliberately obtuse or are you uninformed?
Good call, Round. I didn't explain it as well as I should have in my response. I am just glad that Wesley viewed my links.
Any thoughts on why the media didn't play the sermons I so easily found?
As for the media, along with being immersed in the conservative definition of patriotism and out of touch with the concerns that burden most people, they're biased toward conflict.
Obama did not clarify whether Wright volunteered to leave his African American Religious Leadership Committee, a loose group of supporters associated with the campaign, or whether the campaign asked him to leave. -- msnbc
Obama's unresounding defense of Wright is the cause of the tire tracks on Wrights back...or you could believe that Wright simply decided that this was the perfect time...to less than gracefully retire...from his role as an Obama adviser.
But that's the way it is in today's politics...unprincipled actions to win at any cost...like a not so subtle hip thrown at a man standing on the curb at the bus stop.
See, I thought his speech was pretty good on the subject, but I can see how you thought the way you did as well. Obama did make a lot of statements about Wright and his military and community service.
Isn't it also the media's job to show the other side?
Specifically what (besides the testosterone addled fabrications of the fearful rightwing pansies) is unprincipled in this whole Obama moment? It's not likely an adherent of that miserable conservative worldview has any rational principles to draw from but I'll hear you out. Lay it on me. In this situation, show me the lack of principles as prescribed by this rightwing b**ch fest about Obama.
Hell, this blip of a wannabe story ended up giving rise to one of the finest speeches on race and character a presidential candidate has given in 25 years. No wonder all these whiney cons are in full frontal nudity smear mode. Buncha sissies they are, they're scared silly that a liberal is talking like a liberal and mobilizing a massive grassroots movement.
Go take a hike, Wes. Conservativism is yesterdays bad news, y'all are done. You suck at governing. You people are abject failures at leadership. Our country simply can no longer suffer your foolish conservative worldview and I personally cannot afford to be nice about it.
Wesley,
Not sure if you are still checking this thread, but I thought I would show you the link to McCain's opposition to the new GI Bill. I hope he comes up with his alternative quickly:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=4652517&page=1
Deffinetly not as easy as your average republican sucking up to a televengelical. Somehow that hate never seems to have a negative political impact.
As has been also noted,the Wright clips take a long and fruitful career and condems him for what, 20 minutes of that career. The hot button words encompass all of say one minute. Sorry, redemption for him is neither under your control, nor in your hands.
Wright clips take a long and fruitful career and condems him for what, 20 minutes of that career
Are you a member of his church to know that his rants & raves are not a normal weekly sermon?
Are you a member of his church to know that his rants & raves are not a normal weekly sermon?
Are you a member of his church? Is that how you know what his weekly sermon usually entails? I thought this was America, you know, innocent till proven guilty? I guess that doesn't count in the court of public opinion.
Actually its the other way around. What I have seen proof of is the rhetoric that has scared many people. If you want to clear his name, or if anyone else does, they then need to prove his innocence in that matter...because hes already been proven as guilty.\
Innocent until proven guilty only works when there is no evidence, only suspicion. A video & audio tape is evidence.
The tape does not lie, and it shows what the man is all about.
Did you watch the ENTIRE sermon or just the 20 second Hannity clip?
Reading comments from young white men, calling a black man born in American in 1941 a racist is truly a sad statement for future of this country.
Did any of you young white men grow up during Jim Crow days? What am I thinking, even if they did grow up during Jim Crow, life was good for them, they were white. Imagine what life was like if your born the right color and imagine if you weren't. Of course I know that none of them have a FREAKING clue what life was life for a young black man. Daily, having to answer to "boy" or a whistle like you would for your dog or "the N word". That can leave you not exactly liking white folks.
Rev. Wright was RIGHT! Goddamn America for treating our citizens as less than human.
YOU don't have a freaking clue WHAT a REAL racism is all about. You hear a preacher say damn America and you forget your American history.
This country was built on the backs of African slaves on land that was robbed in the slaughter of Native Americans. I’m sorry if this offends your bourgeois sensibilities as it isn’t the totally awesome, God-fearing, flag-waving, USA #1!!!1 narrative that we teach to school kids, but it is historical fact.
This country was founded by landowning (read: affluent) men of European descent for landowning men of European descent. I love Thomas Jefferson. He was a brilliant political philosopher. But when he wrote “All men are created equal” he didn’t mean it the way I take it. He wasn’t talking about the rights of all men. He certainly wasn’t talking about the rights of women. The man owned slaves.
You've NEVER lost out on a single opportunity becuase you were the wrong color. You whine and cry like little babies over Affirmative Action, it's not your fault there was slavery. GET A CLUE! IT'S AMERICAN HISTORY! You praise the red, white and blue but you must accept slavery and everything that goes with it because THAT is Ameican history, you just didn't suffer because of it.
After being treated and used like animals, bread like animals, sold like animals, beating, lynching, killing you can't understand why Rev. Wright is bitter? No a freaking clue about the history of your country. Quick to forget the past and quick to judge those who don't.
Maybe we really are doomed to elect John McCain, remain in Iraq forever and nuke Iran. Nations that forget history may not be doomed to repeat it, but those that never even recognize reality in the first place definitely are.
The great shock so many people claim to be feeling over Wright’s sermons is preposterous. Anyone who is surprised and horrified that some black people feel anger at white people, and America, is living in a racial never-never land. Wright has called the U.S. “the United States of White America,” talks about the “oppression” of black people and says, “White America got their wake-up call after 9/11.” Gosh, who could have dreamed that angry racial grievances and left-wing political views are sometimes expressed in black churches?
This is absurd. We’re worrying about someone in Row 245 who refuses to stand up for “The Star Spangled Banner,” while the people who are singing loudest and waving the biggest flags are the ones who got us into the mess we’re in today.
Wright isn’t the problem. Stupid patriotism is the problem.
We are now five years into a war that may outrank Vietnam as the most pointless and disastrous one in our history. George W Bush and his neoconservative brain trust conceived that war, but they were only able to push it through because the American people, their political leaders and the mainstream media signed off on it. And they did so because they were in the grip of the fearful, vengeful, patriotic frenzy that swept the nation after 9/11. Without 9/11 and America’s fateful reaction to it, there would be no Iraq war. Every day that the war drags on is yet another indictment of that self-righteous, unthinking “patriotism.”
You don't judge until you've walked in a mans shoes, especially when you have lived your entire life privileged simply becuase you were born white. You think you have the right to judge Rev. Wright?
It's not so much about judging Rev. Wright Pearlene. These guys have simply no ability to make an informed judgement. They rely on what they are told by those with whom they agree and get their information from. Notice that Columbus can't even answer the question as to whether he has any knowledge of any of the other sermons in the past 20 years Wright has given. Wesley and PointofView are the same. They are just simply examples of an uninformed mass blinded by their own partisanship. They are truly pitiful and we as informed people should really feel sorry for them. Unfortunately the fact that idiots like them put GW in the White House because they are just uninformed sheeple is a scary prospect. So while we "should" feel sorry for them we can't because they are dangerous to the safety and security of each one of our families. We can only hope that idiots like them don't actually vote and proceed to poison this great nation again with idiocy and ignorance.
So while we "should" feel sorry for them we can't because they are dangerous to the safety and security of each one of our families. We can only hope that idiots like them don't actually vote and proceed to poison this great nation again with idiocy and ignorance.
Chris, well said!
pearlene_scott1602
While I appreciate your passion, you are simply off a number of issues.
Among other things, you said " You don't judge until you've walked in a mans shoes, especially when you have lived your entire life privileged simply becuase you were born white. You think you have the right to judge Rev. Wright?"
I sure do have the right to judge the man. The assumption that because someone was born white that they privileged life is insane. My grandparents and parents were as poor as poor could be. I would love to see the reaction you get when you tell a bunch of working class poor people who lives through the depression and struggled for everything that they were living a live of privildge.
I have the right to judge the man fir the things that he said...for the way he distorts religion, and the seperation and division he causes and seeks. Poor is poor. Socieo-economics statue and lack of educational and employment opportunites were and are spread throughout American society.
No one is denying that racism occured in the past, and occurs today. Well, at least I am not denying that. It still does not excuse the things that he said, and he is still a racist, based on his views and his opinions. And finally, after years and years of hard work and doing the right thing, my grandfather was never given a 1,000,000 plus house to retire in like the good pastor. Dont lecture me on what a hard life the man has had, and dont lecture me about unequal opportunity. Wright seems to be doing just fine to me.
POV,
Could you link one of the racist statements here, please?
POV,
I just looked through the whole thread. The only quotes you provided were a USA KKK statement and your misquote about white people creating AIDS.
How is saying USA KKK a racist statement? Did he belittle any race by saying that?
You think you have the right to judge Rev. Wright?"
As a an African American born in 1934 I UNDERSTAND Rev. Wrights anger and bitterness.
I sure do have the right to judge the man. The assumption that because someone was born white that they privileged life is insane. My grandparents and parents were as poor as poor could be.
But were your grandparents black? See no matter what amount of wealth you had or did not have being poor was much better than being black in 1934 or 1941. You simply have to use your brain to imagine how life was for Rev. Wright. I understand how your grandparents felt being white and poor but I’d bet you a million dollars they would have preferred being poor than being black!
I have the right to judge the man fir the things that he said...for the way he distorts religion, and the seperation and division he causes and seeks. Poor is poor. Socieo-economics statue and lack of educational and employment opportunites were and are spread throughout American society.
When you live one day of your life as a black man you have room to judge what Rev. Wright said, until you do you can only imagine. You are entitled to disagree with Rev. Wright. You have every right to express anger at what he said. YOU DO NOT have the right to past judgement!
No one is denying that racism occured in the past, and occurs today. Well, at least I am not denying that. It still does not excuse the things that he said, and he is still a racist, based on his views and his opinions.
No one is looking to excuse Rev. Wright becuase he did not lie! America mistreated of some of it citizens. America has done things it should be ashamed of! One of the reasons given for fighting this war was Saddam's mistreatment of his people and yet you don't want to acknowledge that America has done the same? You DO NOT mistreat ANYONE!
I don’t want you or anyone else to pay for the past. I want you to STOP trying to pretend it didn’t happen. STOP asking black folks to “show gratitude” because America was forced to wake up!
And finally, after years and years of hard work and doing the right thing, my grandfather was never given a 1,000,000 plus house to retire in like the good pastor. Dont lecture me on what a hard life the man has had, and dont lecture me about unequal opportunity.
I have every right to lecture you! You try to compare your Grandfathers hardship but you can’t, it happened to your Grandfather, NOT YOU! I don’t need to repeat second hand stories, I was born during the history you studied in school, paying my 15 cents to ride the bus and not being allowed to set in the first 10 seats because I was the WRONG color happened to ME! I am a 48 year breast cancer survivor who received her HS diploma at age 29, married, raised and put 3 girls through college. I lived the hard life, it's not a story I heard.
Wright seems to be doing just fine to me.
Walk a mile Rev. Wrights shoes BEFORE you judge.
pearlene
You said..."No one is looking to excuse Rev. Wright becuase he did not lie!" I take it by that statment then that you agree with him when he said the gove invented AIDS to kill black people. Come on....you can not defend that statment.
you also said..."
I don’t want you or anyone else to pay for the past. I want you to STOP trying to pretend it didn’t happen. STOP asking black folks to “show gratitude” because America was forced to wake up". I never said nor did imply that racist or bad things did not happen in the past or the present. But for you to imply, as you did in your first post, that being born white gives you an automatic priviliged life is simply not correct.
What Reverend Wright does not understand is that this is NOT the America of 1941. If this was a sermon that was in fact almost 70 years old...then ok..that is a different conversation. Are things perfect now...of course not. But he seems to not acknowledge that this is 2008, and he seems to not acknowledge just how fortunate he is. Again, how many people, black or white, retire to an over 1,000,000 home.
And I am sorry if you disagree, but I have every right.....every right to judge someone who claims to be a man of God, and uses that position to generate hate. I have every right to judge a man of God who becomes wealthy as a result of the very society he tears apart.
You are correct I did not live the life you did, nor can I understand the life you described. Although my grandparents were poor, I am sure it was easier for them being white. However, in this society, poor is poor. Uneducated is uneducated.
I was born in 1969, so I never saw a segregated drinking fountain or a segregated bathroom. But I have seen racists, both black and white. They are both wrong, and reverend wright is a racist.
Are you aware how many black folks think that what Rev. Wright said about aids is true? Are you also aware of how many white preachers who believe that you can "cure" someone of homosexuality? You don't believe that do you?
Have you ever studied the Tuskegee Experiment? Being born in 1969 were you aware that the experiment ended when you were 3 years old? Some black folks think that if the US can experiment on black folks once what's to stop them from doing it again.
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,” their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all.
Being born white is an advantage. That is simply fact.
You don't understand that the society in which you are raised effects you. My best example is you can adopt a dog that's been beaten and no matter how good you are to the dog he'll never forget being beaten. Years may go by and one wrong move can trigger memories. Obama running for President has triggered many memories for me. You want Rev. Wright to speak about America today but Rev. Wright grew up in a different America, one he as well as I will never forget.
Rev. Wright was 27 years old when MLK died in 1968. What was life like for black folks then? .
You pass judgement on Rev. Wright based on 20 second clips. Rev. Wright has a 36 year career as a minster not 20 second clips. If you truly believe in God you should know "Judge not, that you be judged" in Matt 7:1. When Jesus said "Judge not", he forbade unkind, unjustified and improper censure resulting from HASTY and superficial investigation, and without regard for the well being of the person, or persons, criticized.
Pearlene.
It does not matter how many people think the aids comment is correct. You said he did not tell any lies, and I asked you if YOU support that statement. What he said was simply a lie, and that can not be denied.
I think we both agree that being white gives one an advantage....what I objected to was your ealier assertion that it led to a life of privlidge. That is simply not true.
Yes, he did grow up in a different America, but he lives, profits, and profits very very well from the America of Today. The very point that you make...that so many people believe this lie about aids, and the fact that he uses that lie while passing the collection plate which is lining his pockets is a disgrace.
A man can do a lifetime of good, and destroy it all in moments...yes...in 20 seconds even. What you do not understand, is that while he may be a hero to some, to a larger segment of socitey, he is a symbol of everything that is wrong. He is a symbol of racism and and a symbol of how this country remains divided. He may well be the factor, or a major factor in BO losing the white house.
He is just one man, but he is a symbol of so much that is wrong in this country. As you can tell I am sure....I am a staunch conserative. My wife however is and has always been a lifelong democrat. She was so turned off by the comments of Wright, and the defense of his comments that were so wrong to so many people, that if BO is the candidate, she will not vote for him. Now, I would never claim that people I know will sway the election, but the view she has after this whole episode is very common among people I know....people in the 35-45 age range, who want to eliminate racism, and who quite frankly are stunned at the comments he made, and the flat refusal of so many to even attempt to see why his words have hurt so many people.
You like the analogy of "walking in his shoes" Perhaps a pair of shoes that you should try on would be those belonging to a 30 something democrat, who has been told that her govt made a virus to kill black people, that her country deserved the attacks of 911, that her country is ths United Staes of KKK, and that her God should Damn America. Once you try those shoes on, you may begin to understand that those shoes were made for a racist, and simply so not fit the feet of many who call themselves a democrat today.
A man can do a lifetime of good, and destroy it all in moments...yes...in 20 seconds even.
If you think that listening to 20 seconds gives you the right to destroy a 36 years career as a minster I can only hope for your sake that you never find others judging YOU by the same standards. Kind of hard to learn from your mistakes huh.
If "guilt by association" is the reason folks judge Obama and he loses the White House it will say a lot more about Americans than Rev. Wright. People all over the world are watching this election to see if this country practices what it loves to preach to other countries. If “guilt by association” is the reason Obama loses the White House it will say a lot more about the hypocritical attitudes of Americans than anything Rev. Wright said. There are many reasons why we as a country will continue to be divided but lack of understanding is the main one.
I would ask your wife why is she hurt. What is she so upset about? Her anger at his blunt statements, I can understand but as Obama said you can either try to understand where the anger is coming from or you we can continue and go nowhere, fighting over the same issues again and again. Your wife can choose to apply "guilt by association" to Obama but I must say she is no better than the man she hates, Rev. Wright. You cannot not call yourself a Christian and not practice forgiveness.
What I would tell your 30 year old wife is this country is a work in progress, not perfect in any way. One hundred years after the Emancipation Proclamation this country was still segregated. Restaurants, buses, schools, drinking fountains and bathrooms. Again, it took leaders like Martin Luther King Jr. to see that “separate, but equal” was a ruse and that it represented a reading of these ideas that sold them short entirely. And some of these people were told they were too bombastic, too loud and too angry. It took leaders like Bobby Kennedy to see that their anger was well justified and long overdue.
I notice your wife didn't find Rev. Wright's statement about the country being run by rich white men upsetting. Does your wife not want to damn a country that made slaves out of human beings? Does you wife not want to damn a country that sold people like animals separating children from parents, brothers from sisters? Does your wife not want to damn a country that allowed terrorists dressed in white sheets to kill innocent black people simply becuase they were white and they could? Does your wife still damn Germany for the Holocaust? Should we not mention it with anger at what Germans did to people who's only crime was they were Jewish?
Spend some time with folks who lived in a very different America. Folks who loved their country, were willing to die for their country even when their country didn't love them. You just might understand.
What is lacking in your post, is the same thing that is lacking in the comments of Wright. The America you describe, and the America he described and attacked was not the America of today. As I said before, if this were 1950 America, the yes, this is a very different conversation. Does my wife condem all of the horrible acts you mention, of course she does. Does she also recognize that it is 2008, yes, she does.
Neither her nor I are applying the guilt by association standard. She is not upset that BO knows this man. She is upset that he gave thousands and thousands of dollars and attended his church for 20 years.
Come on Pearlean, BO did NOT condem anything Wright said until the comments became PUBLIC. Only the did he say that the comments were wrong. That is a cop out. Were JM to attend a church where the pastor made the kind of comments, even on ocassion, the Wright made, do you really think he would be given a free pass. Do you really think people would say,,,,well....McCain is 70...that is the America he knows. Not a chance.
My wife is so angry because there is no honesty here. Yes, condem the things that America has done in the past. But to do that, while at the same time denying the great things this country has done, and the opportunity it provides is insane. That is why she wil not vote for BO. She really thought he was the candidate to end all the dicision. What she has learned is that he is simply a politician, and that he will do or say what ever it takes to get elected.
As for me, I am excited that she may not vote. It might be the first election in 20 years where my vote my actually count....(that was a joke).
Finally, I noticed you asked is she was offended by the rich white man comment. This goes to the point I made to you before. Class is what matters in this country. Class determines almost everything. A simple lack of some many people to condem Wright for what he has said and to aknowledge that he offers a distorted view of race that is 70 years outdated is what has turned her. And in my humble opinion, it is what is turning people to the republican party. I enjoy the conversation with you, and will look for your response.
POV,
If the tapes are an "open and shut case" against Reverend Wright, perhaps your posts are an open and shut case against you. You have repeatedly misquoted the man by claiming he said that white people created the AIDS virus. He said no such thing. When confronted with this, you don't take the time to correct yourself and you keep moving on. I asked you what racist statements Wright made and you pointed to your posts on this thread which include a misquote and the USA KKK statement and added nothing more.
Does your continued insistence on misquoting someone speak to your character? Does your willingness to judge a man by a few soundbites speak to your character? I posted links to his other sermons that made Wesley think differently of Reverend Wright, did you try them?
I hope you equally condemn Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, James Dobson, Pat Robertson and so many on the religious right who have used their much broader pulpits to advocate for war, oppression of homosexuals and the division of America. I hope you condemn the Southern Baptists and traditional Catholics for their treatment of homosexuals. I hope you condemn and don't trust Mormonism because of its blatant racism in its past.
I am sorry that your wife won't vote for Obama based on his religious affiliation. I would hope anyone would be judged on their own words and actions and not those of a third party. If I met you, and not her, would it be fair for me to impute your rantings on this board to her? After all, she decided to marry you and give her heart and soul to you.
Fridge
As for my wife, she knows she was targeted and selected through a plot of conserative men whos only aim was to marry democratic women and convert them to the GOP. I have told her that many times. I only highlighted her perspective here to demonstrate that it is not just conseratives who were offended by the comments of Wright.
As for the white people vs govt creating the aids virus, it was the govt that he cited, and that was cottected by another poster soon after I said it and he was correct. Since that post, I have used the term govt as opposed to whites. One problem here is keeping up with all those posts. The first comment that I made on this thread was orginally the 18th comment posted. Now it has been pushed back to around 130...so it can be hard to keep things in order and I am not sure how to correct that.
My problem with you fridge is your flat refusal to say even somthing as simple as what the man said was wrong, has strong racial implications, but that is not who he really is.....look as these links as proof. That I could live with...that I could accept.
What is turning many dems that I know off...my wife included, is the circle the wagons mentality that is going on here. The fact that BO did not condem a singke thing Wright said until it was public, and a simple lack of accountability. Many conseratives have been brought down for a lot less. It amazes me how so many posters here....(not including you here...just making a general comment) are so quick to label all conseratives as racist or homophobic, yet are so unwilling to condem Wright, and question BO's judgment concering this man. I for one am not racist, and have no interest whatsoever in passing any law that makes life for difficult for homosexuals. While I do not support gay marriage per say, i have no problem with civil unions or anything along those lines....but that is another issue
As far as religious figures on the right who say hateful, racist, or homophoic things...yes....i condem those views as well.
POV,
Some of the things Wright has said have strong racial implications, but I am not sure they are racist. He certainly has problems with the government of this country and how it has acted in the past. I didn't notice where you corrected yourself, I apologize.
I am not sure of the conservatives who have been brought down by association, could you help me out on that one?
I am sorry if we have misunderstood each other in this thread and I look forward to more civil dialogue.
Fridge
you said...."Some of the things Wright has said have strong racial implications, but I am not sure they are racist. He certainly has problems with the government of this country and how it has acted in the past."
Fair enough. I am sure we will have plenty to discuss in the future. I think it will be hard to keep going on this one as this thread is getting bumped and harder to find. I think they will probably cut off the comments soon enough. And I should have done a better job of correcting the white vs govt post.
-- Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community.
If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.
What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.-- Jim Cone
Jim Cone is one of the leading founders of the black liberation theology professed by Rev. Wright...Obama's mentor.
Thanks Loonz. I'll have to say that this rhetoric is worse than Wright, from what I've seen anyway....but its clear where Wright gets it from.
Wright hasn't espoused any of those beliefs.
Rev Wright follows the teachings of Jim Cone. In fact, Wright says to read the teachings of Cone if you want to understand the religion that he professes and preaches.
Your responses are always good for a laugh. You will stop at nothing to defend the libs, even people as hateful and divisive as Wright and other like him. Then you have the nerve to compare him to an author. So I repeat, how do you explain the 20 years of support he gave him, the thousands of dollars....etc.etc.... You are so dis-honest it is almost amusing. And as far as brain power, you will never be competition for me.
Wesley,
What religion are you?
The evidence shows he has given inflamatory sermons, it doesn't show that he gave such sermons constantly. Actually the evidence implies he has not given such sermons with any frequency, because if he had then right wing radio would have more soundbites to put on an endless loop than the three or four they have been playing. And those three or four clips come from the same two sermons.
because hes already been proven as guilty.(Columbus)
What's the charge, Columbus?
What's the charge, Columbus?
Not agreeing with Columbus' narrow-minded, self-centered, self-serving, racist, homophobic, anti-liberal agenda.
I guess a lot of us are guilty.....
because hes already been proven as guilty.
Oh? He was tried and convicted? Sounds to me like you are a modern day lynch party. Kill first and ask questions later. How "tolerant" of you...
Yeah, between Columbus and Pointy, I've seen "guilty", "strong evidence", "open and shut case"... all sorts of verdicts coming down, seems Obama's been convicted by the Konservative Kangaroo Kourt.
Only trouble is, nobody's dreamed up the crime yet.
Details, details. Is strange fruit in season?
I thought I'd check back and see if anybody had come up with a crime yet. I guess it would have slowed down the wheels of justice. You know, actually having to define the charge before convicting.
Columbus? Pointofview? anybody?
Sorry for the delay Col...i have about 10 diff conversations going on in this same thread. Ok, here we go. He is charged with, and found guilty of: being a race baitor, a racist, and using the pulpit and the gospel to divide and distort the teaching of the Bible.
Court Dismissed.
POV,
Columbus said that Obama was guilty of something, not Wright.
Charged with, and found guilty of right in the same sentence. That's what I thought.
Good thing these guys aren't producing those TV courtroom dramas, they'd only be about 2 minutes long.
There plenty of videos available for watching on YouTube.com. I would suggest watching them and making that conclusion for yourself.
As the old saying goes "fool me once, shame on me. fool me twice, shame on you"
so you found nothing offensive about him says aids was invented to kill black people
A significant portion of Black Americans think so. My aunt thinks so.
or the united states of kkk
From the founding of this country up until the sixties, yes.
or America deserving 911
He didn't say America deserved 9/11.
Interesting, POV. You wouldn't even respond to my request for you to define the word "maverick," but when someone at least tells his beliefs, you attack his character. You couldn't take a simple challenge from me and then accused me of using liberal talking points. Did you see the AP article about McCain today saying that many people see McCain as a centrist?
Was this country not a racist one in the letter of the law until the 1960s? You do realize who Wright was quoting with his chickens coming home to roost comment, right? Where did Wright say that America deserved 9/11?
POV,
You are a word parser of the first order. I doubt you would get 100 different definitions. I bet those who call McCain a maverick see him as someone who goes against his party with regularity and that, as you know, is hardly the case.
Are you going to argue Loonz point about the KKK USA until the 1960s?
I am glad we have you on record as agreeing with all the things he said.
I'm glad you agree with what Wright said too.
As the old saying goes "fool me once, shame on me. fool me twice, shame on you"- Columbus1492
I think it's the other way around, but Bush had trouble with that one too.
I havent seen it. It wont become true because you repeat it. If you cant see that there is no hope for YOU.
stupider than hair on a barbeshop floor
Solon, where do you come up with this stuff? I've never heard that one before ;-)
Slight clarification:
He said the government.
Columbus,
Check out the links I put underneath Wesley's challenges to find other Wright sermons.
Gay rights/marriage is really the least of many of their concerns in terms of the other major issues.
The republicans were trying to amend the Constitution to limit the rights of gays so how could it not be a major priority?
Is it a top issue?
They were trying to amend the constitution over it.
Clearly they are trying to ammend the constitution to clarify its meaning. I hope you do recall Hillary's approval of the Defense of Marriage Act.
The REAL bottom line here that I hope you can see through is that most Democrats are not supporting the constitutional ammendment, although they do not disagree with the clarification the republicans are trying to make. Its a lame attempt to save face and retain votes of the gay backers by not voting AGAINST them. The "leave it to the states" attitude is really just a different way of not voting on an issue so you cannot be accused one way or the other.
Clearly they are trying to ammend the constitution to clarify its meaning. I hope you do recall Hillary's approval of the Defense of Marriage Act.
I don't care what Hillary did; I'm talking about the republicans' attempt to amend the Constitution for the first time in American history to restrict the rights of some Americans.
Alot of the Dems aren't making a strong enough stance on Gay Marrriage, but not speaking up enough against something isn't the same as pushing for it.
Great Logic, being prejudiced and stomping on the rights of others is much better than standing aside and allowing it. What a joke.
Becuase if you elect not to stand up, you can always say you didnt back it in the first place.
Hey that sounds like what the Republicans did with that creepy child molesting Mark Foley. Ignore and hope he's never arrested for child molestation.
so you only care when the conseratives do it, not the dems. Nice. Can you say Hypocritical? I knew ya could.
So you're telling me she supported the amendment?
She defended the Defense of Marriage Act which is the same thing by putting it into law w/o changing the constitution.
As I said, the "leave it to the states" attitude is a cop out to make someone else look bad, not congress.
She defended the Defense of Marriage Act which is the same thing by putting it into law w/o changing the constitution.
Laws can be overturned by a court and can easily be repealed with another legislative vote. An amendment is a different story. The republicans were trying to make gays second class citizens permanently.
Then shouldn't your precious democrats have stood up for them?
Did the amendment pass?
Is gay marriage legal yet?
Is gay marriage legal yet?
Same-sex marriage in the U.S. state of Massachusetts began on May 17, 2004, as a result of the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts ruling in Goodridge v. Department of Public Health that it was unconstitutional under the Massachusetts constitution to allow only heterosexual couples to marry. Massachusetts became the sixth jurisdiction in the world (after the Netherlands, Belgium, Ontario, British Columbia, and Quebec) to legalize same-sex marriage. It is the first U.S. state to make same-sex marriages legal
YOUR QUESTION: Is gay marriage legal yet?
ANSWER: YES Same-sex marriage in the U.S. state of Massachusetts began on May 17, 2004, as a result of the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts ruling in Goodridge v. Department of Public Health that it was unconstitutional under the Massachusetts constitution to allow only heterosexual couples to marry.
So MMFA has no real evidence here. A staffer may have done something and was suspended, and a op-ed was circulated that was written by someone else. Wow....how serious is that?
In now way shape or form is the Wright issue over. Combine those comments, and the "proud of America" comments by his wife, and then add what Obamma said about young girls being "punished with a baby", and "bitter voters", and Obamma is well on his way to sinking himself.
This is what people meant by him being to inexperienced at this point in his career to be president. These kind of remarks will not scare off the hard core left, but it ill scare off the moderates and independents, and they will be the ones who elect the next president.
but it ill scare off the moderates and independents, and they will be the ones who elect the next president
Agreed. Those are the only ones who's minds weren't made up to vote for their party before the list of presidential nominees were even announced.
Personally I find the idea of at least four more years of Bush foreign policy to be a great deal more frightening than a Black Minister who is still angry with America for the way his people were treated. But thats just me. And since I was registered republican until my states primary this year I dont consider myself a lockstep democrat.
Switch sides? You think that white people are automatically on your side? I'm white, and I didn't switch sides. I started on this side.
stupider? I take it that word did not reside on your IQ test.
Your bloviating speaks for itself union man.
Since you are the MORON so incredibly stupid even the other kids on your shorbus feel sorry for you I will give that all the credence it deserves. I will be back after I stop laughing.
Actually you omit the fact that in other countries their NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM takes a lot of that load. That isnt the UNIONS fault. What is your point? That retirees and union members shouldnt have health care? Again. I have as good a healthcare plan. At LEAST as good a retirement plan and make more money than UAW members. Yet my company makes a KILLING and is paying their stockholders a good return. The difference is they cant move those rails to Indonesia, so they just live with paying us a decent wage and giving us a good standard of living. The same with the dockworkers. THOSE businesses still make money. You dont have a point.
Well if were only concerned with money instead of people, and were only concered with the rich getting richer, that would assume we make decent wages.
Unless you want to pull something else out of your arse that makes no sense, go ahead.
While I would like to assume you are a virtual expert on not making sense and pulling things out of your ASS by virtue of living your life as, well, YOU. I am afraid your delusional state and your basic stupidity reneder you incapable of any logical progression or really any level of understanding whatsoever. You ASSUME that people ONLY support what is REALLY in their best interest instead of what their delusions and brainwashing fool them into thinking is in their best interest. Your very posts prove conclusively that is NOT the case. You are a brainwashed moron. What YOU think makes NO case for what reasonably intelligent people will do
Must have been a union rule that you hadddd to say it.
Which union contract are you reading?
I wonder if columbus's, sell by. date has passed yet.
The dry rot problem in his ship of credibility was not mediated by drilling holes in the transome to help the water run out
Damm you,....worth a chuckle.
;o)
Thank you. I will vouchsafe the exsistence of your sense of humor. Yours too Jeter (I know he's out there), Tommy...I just donno.
Unlike yourself, Columbus doesn't strike me as a long termer. At least not under one name.