Scarborough falsely claimed that Obama said of religious Americans, "You only believe that because you're bitter, because you're poor"
SUMMARY: MSNBC's Joe Scarborough falsely claimed that Sen. Barack Obama said of Americans with religious beliefs: "Your faith, the faith of your fathers, the faith of your grandfathers, the faith of your grandmothers -- it's just a crutch. It's just a crutch. You only believe that because you're bitter, because you're poor, because you didn't go to college, because you're working class." In fact, Obama said that "in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania," people are "beaten down" and "feel ... betrayed by government," and "it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion."
During the April 15 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, host Joe Scarborough misrepresented remarks Sen. Barack Obama made during an April 6 fundraiser. Scarborough stated that Americans "do care about a guy that says, 'Your faith, the faith of your fathers, the faith of your grandfathers, the faith of your grandmothers -- it's just a crutch. It's just a crutch. You only believe that because you're bitter, because you're poor, because you didn't go to college, because you're working class.' " In fact, Obama did not claim that Americans are religious because they are "poor" or "didn't go to college" or are "working class," as Scarborough suggested. Rather, he said that "in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania," people are "beaten down" and "feel ... betrayed by government," and "it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion."
From the April 15 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:
SCARBOROUGH: Now that he's [Obama] talked about the bitterness, he basically has to walk around the rest of the campaign with a smile on his face.
He -- it is -- these are the sort of things, and again, people will -- you know, [Comedy Central host] Jon Stewart or somebody will take a clip of somebody's analysis and say, "Oh, it's so stupid; they're so dumb; they think that's how people vote." Well, Jon Stewart, what the hell does Jon Stewart know? He's voted for the wrong president probably every time he's -- every -- at the loser president every time. He doesn't know what Americans want.
Americans do care if Michael Dukakis looks like a doofus in a helmet when he's riding a tank. They do care if John Kerry looks elitist. They do care if Al Gore Jr. looks elitist. They do care if Barack Obama tries to look like a regular guy in a bowling alley and then he looks like an elitist who's never been in a bowling alley before.
MIKA BRZEZINSKI (co-host): OK, where does --
SCARBOROUGH: They do care about a guy that says, "Your faith, the faith of your fathers, the faith of your grandfathers, the faith of your grandmothers -- it's just a crutch. It's just a crutch. You only believe that because you're bitter, because you're poor, because you didn't go to college, because you're working class."
Those are the signals that are sent every four years that defeat Democrats, and they're sent in big ways and small ways. And, yes, it seems stupid, but when Ronald Reagan can go to South Boston, hold up a beer mug, and you can tell that Reagan's had beer before, it matters. And people go, "He's one of us."
I could give you a thousand examples --
BRZEZINSKI: OK.
SCARBOROUGH: -- of how small events like this add up. Because you know what? Most people think politicians are liars; they think that they calculate everything. It's just these moments where they get a glimpse into who they really are that people take with them into a voting booth.
SCARBOROUGH: "...what the hell does Jon Stewart know? He's voted for the wrong president probably every time he's -- every -- at the loser president every time. He doesn't know what Americans want."
Here's another thing people cling to when they're scared and desperate; getting "right" mixed up with "popular".
Here's another thing people cling to when they're scared and desperate; getting "right" mixed up with "popular".
I think of that every time an Adam Sandler movie is #1 at the box office - just because sometion is popular does not make it good......
Awhhhhhh
Did that mean Obama offend your little red neck Republican heart Joe?
Hi Pearlene,, I gotta admit, I called this one wrong. When this first hit the media, I assumed that the word "cling" would be deliberately and repeatedly deleted, just like the word "really" from Michelle Obama's "proud of her country" remark.
I thought it would be left out to make it appear that Obama was talking about anyone who was religious or owned a gun. They're actually really focusing on the "cling", and like Joe here, trying to spin it that anybody who is not a gun-outlawing atheist was called weak.
Sometimes they're ballsier than I think they can get away with, but then, I probably overestimate their audience more than they do. I guess you have to be almost thjat dopey to believe that level of dopiness exists. ;0)
Hey "Manly" Col, I must admit, I've had great pleasure watching Joe & Co. underestimate Obama. I can just imagine them saying to each other "My God! We can let that black boy become President!"
Reading Joe interpretation of Obama's statement makes me lol. He's so afraid that small town America might realize they've been lied to by Republicans. Affirmative Action was taking away their manufacturing jobs, giving blacks an advantage. Connecting blacks and "those liberal Democrats" together, "they are the reason your kids didn't get into the college of their choice", "those liberals homosexuals wanting to marry dogs" is a threat to marriage, "those liberals want to take your granddaddy's gun" making you a sissie. A complete lock on that voting block, a real "we feel your pain" moment, until now. The manufacturing jobs are gone, and after years of believing Republicans small town America realize they are never coming back, replaced with $6.50 a hour, no health-care benefits jobs. Corporations have been the beneficiary of Republican control transferring jobs to foreign countries for cheap labor. Illegal immigration has allowed business the benefits of cheap labor. Heck it's not the fault of black folks anymore. Small town America has realized that Republicans have lied and used them and Joe & Co. are afraid small town America is not playing their game anymore.
Off Topic and what i call Poetic Justice
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/04/12/roommate_0413.html
Hi Pearlene, thanks for the link, that's a good one.
Funny, my previous post was just as I left work. Driving home, I caught Hugh Hewitt on the radio, and he was "re-thinking" his take on the Obama comments, and was shifting his focus from "bitter" to "cling". I guess his audience swallowed the first attack so easily, he (and all of his cohorts) are seeing how much they can push it. It would be sad if they weren't such nasty people.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080414/alterman
"Conservatives did not, of course, wish to do away with "elites." They merely wanted to replace them with their own. As John Judis pointed out in his book-length study The Paradox of American Democracy, "Instead of creating a new elite, they undermined what it meant for a country to have one. The new groups, in contrast to the old, did not seek to be above class, party and ideology. On the contrary, they were openly probusiness and conservative.... They did not seek to mediate conflicts but to take one side. They had no ties to labor unions or to the environmental, consumer or civil rights movements that had emerged in the sixties, but only to the business counteroffensive against them.... They did not seek to produce objective results by means of social science. On the contrary, they were willing to use social science to achieve partisan results."
Isaiah J. Poole speaks to these fears directly,
"A successful appeal to these voters would "connect economic security to economic opportunity." It would frame the progressive principles that brought the nation the New Deal and the Great Society and link them to the desires of individuals and families to move forward toward the American Dream. And, as the Democracy Corps has been saying, it is time "to change who government works for"—all of the people, not just the wealthy few."
http://ourfuture.org/blog-entry/bitter-course-heres-why
Pearlene,
The funny thing is that JOE really gets it he is just bound by his partisanship in this instance to spin it in a manner which may help the GOP. That is unfortunate because he has directly contradicted himself as he said yesterday something to the effect that Obama is correct in that the working class vote against their pocket books by voting GOP because they see no effective change in the economy so they choose to relate to guns, religion, etc. He gets it he just won't readily admit it. Obama is scaring the hell out of the "establishment" because he can communicate what the hell is really going on. They don't like that because ,I believe, they see him as a threat to their power. <end 60's style diatribe> :-)
Very true, one can believe in religion while thinking some do because of displeasure with goverment.
However, I highly doubt that people go to church week after week, year after year, who knows, up to 60+ yrs out of displeasure of government. And I highly doubt anyone who joins the NRA is in it because of displeasure for government. You can upset with government, while be being a part of something that you find to be in your personal interest.
I believe the wrong part was asserting that people are part of these groups becuase of government.
Us Catholics call them "sunday christians".
LOL Snoop, that's what us Baptist call them too! ;-)
Exactly, Wookie. Notice nobody's saying that Obama's comments are untrue, just not polite. People don't tend to focus on areas of comfort and security when times are bad? It's just more conservative political correctness.
Did you see that Hillary ad with the "Pennsylvania citizens" commenting?I had to the laugh at the woman who has the line insisting that she doesn't turn to religion when she's not happy, because her faith is "uplifting". Wouldn't unhappy times be a really obvious time to lean towards something uplifting?Maybe I just haven't listened to the interpretations of enough GOP media translators.
Obama generalized and that's what makes Obama's comments untrue to those who don't "cling" to religion and guns for the reasons he states.
I thought Obama was smarter than this, but put me in the camp that overestimated him. He's now gone from a virtual lock for the Presidency to a coin flip with a very weak Republican candidate.
Obama pulled back the scab to take a look at the festering pustule of the decades long conservative hot button issue campaign.
It's but one exposed layer of flesh of the body politic but slowly through examination we will heal.
However, I highly doubt that people go to church week after week, year after year, who knows, up to 60+ yrs out of displeasure of government.
I do, too, and if Obama had said anything resembling that, I'd disagree with him. Since he has said nothing even distantly-related to your statement, I say congratulations on the birth of another little straw-baby to add to your highly populous community of straw men.
Look at Joe projecting: "It's just these moments where they get a glimpse into who they really are that people take with them into a voting booth"
Like Somerby says, when the media has a fault, they pretend that the voters have that fault.
Personally, I'm going to vote for the person with the responsible tax policy, not for who they "really are". I saw responsible tax policy literally turn this whole country around in 1993, and I want to see it again.
However "Joe" treated the quote, the quote itself was stupidly elitist.
It smacks of the same kind of elitism that typifies most of the people on this site. Liberals/Progressives feel they are superior to the great unwashed hoi poloi, they are better educated, wiser, more sophisticated, more respectable.
Anyone who would point out the utter futility of a homosexual society is dismissed as a phobic. Anyone who connects guns and freedom is something out of 'Deliverance,' and anyone who would object to the obvious unfairness and idiocy of 'affirmative action' is a racist, and of course, anyone who would argue against abortion is a sexist chauvinist.
But other than that, Liberals/Progressives are quite tolerant of diverse viewpoints - as long as, and only if they are to the left of their own.
Keep it coming, Barry!
Your entire post is ridiculous.
But the comment about a "homosexual society" stands out for its absurdity. Where do you get this stuff?
Is there anyone, anywhere that advocates an entirely homosexual society. If homosexuals are only marrying other homosexuals, then what's it to ya'? The inability to have children is moot because there are millions of married heterosexual couples who choose not to have children. Are you gonna bash them too?
I can't even begin to comprehend the ignorance you've amassed in just a few short sentences. And, no, sorry, pointing out ignorance when one sees it is not elitist.
Here's the thing chief. There isn't anyone on here, that I've ever seen, call for the elimination of anyone's freedom of speech, and or opposing viewpoints. It's not my fault you make really stupid and ignorant arguments that are so easily shot down, it's sometimes not even worth trying.
What Obama said was true. As I've challenged other folks, do you live in a rural society in the US? I did, and do. Guess what I have around me? Bitter folks that I work with. They're angry, VERY angry. What do they turn to? Their religion for a lot of them, because it does give them hope, and it does uplift them. Good for them. I know a lot of them cling to their guns, and use the mantra of "from my cold dead hands" quite often.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good Obama bashing though.
Ed, your post doesn't seem to have been deleted. Isn't that tolerant of a different viewpoint?
Oh, I get it, you just don't like that other people with different opinions respond to you. They're fascists.
Try commenting on some more reality-based things, instead of your fantasies and strawmen, you might find some more of that "tolerance".
I mean think about all the prominent keepers of the conservative flame, think about how they pretend to be so common yet in reality they're privileged ivy leaguers through and through. Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, David Brooks, William Saffire and every other crony Buh has appointed are all condescending elitists pretending to be one of us.
If you want to know what Republicans think of the commoner and the lowly born look no further than the acrimonious reflex the conservative intellegentsia doubled over with when W. nominated Harriet Meirs. Their delicate sensibilities were set afire in near apoplectic rage that Harriet didn't come with good enough breeding for them.
You Republican hypocrites are just plain shameless.
Liberals/Progressives feel they are superior to the great unwashed hoi poloi, they are better educated, wiser, more sophisticated, more respectable.
Emperical evidence alone shows that people who support Bush and the ousted Republican majority are NOT better educated, etc. because everything this administration has done has been an unmitigated DISASTER.
And isn't that what its really all about? I don't believe for a second that most (i did say most) of the people that spout off the "elitist", "Marxist", "racist", "anti-American" mantra really and truly deep down believe it. It just gives their dislike of Obama some semblance of validity. Gives them a reason "why" when one doesn't normally exist (other than he's a Democrat).
Carlos
Simple. It's because their government is made up of people who believe the government should be "faith-based" and ours...
Uh, no. I can't help you there.
Seemingly our current power structure hides both as causes of violence. It mostly pushes the idea that the violent people are just evil and have no statement worth considering.
For our fundamentalists they show much concern for their leaders statements, get up on stage, smile, appear to show solidarity. They then feed them crumbs, and broadcast varying amounts of bombast for fundamental issues. If they accomplish most of the fundamentalists agenda (you have to imagine some wild sucess here) then they get bored and turn their attension to next years SUV and not the continuing monetary needs of the the polititians who done as they'd bid.
If he did say something other than what Joe claims then I still think Obama is a clown. People shouldn't have to rely on government for their wellbeing. Freaking communist!
Kimmy-
Shouldn't you be over in Iraq, fighting for our country? Oh, right, you're relying on the GOVERNMENT to take care of that. Thanks for your input, though. Better luck next time, chickenhawk.