Rove falsely claimed that Obama suggested: "If you wear a flag lapel pin, you're not a true patriot"
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SUMMARY: On The O'Reilly Factor, Karl Rove misrepresented Sen. Barack Obama's explanation for not wearing an American flag lapel pin, falsely asserting that Obama's comments amounted to saying, "If you wear a flag lapel pin, you're not a true patriot." In fact, Obama said he stopped wearing a pin because it had become "a substitute for, I think, true patriotism"; he did not say, as Rove claimed, that the wearer was "not a true patriot."
During the April 17 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, responding to Bill O'Reilly's question about the importance of "asking Barack Obama about the lapel pin," as ABC News anchor Charles Gibson did during the April 16 Democratic presidential debate, Fox News contributor Karl Rove misrepresented Obama's explanation for not wearing an American flag lapel pin. Rove stated, "Let's remember what Barack Obama said; he said that, in the aftermath of 9-11, he stopped wearing a flag lapel pin because true patriotism consists of speaking out on an issue, not wearing a lapel pin." He continued, "What he was really doing was demonstrating this turn of mind that says, you know what? If you wear a flag lapel pin, you're not a true patriot." Rove was presumably referring to comments Obama made last October about wearing the flag lapel pin. In October 2007, Obama said that he had decided to stop wearing a U.S. flag lapel pin during the run-up to the Iraq war because it had become "a substitute for, I think, true patriotism," and that "after a while, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not acting very patriotic." Contrary to Rove's claim, Obama did not say that a flag pin signified that the wearer was "not a true patriot."
O'Reilly responded to Rove's comments by stating, "I didn't take Obama's lack of the lapel pin as anything other than he's either too lazy ... to put it on, or he doesn't want to put it on." Rove replied, "Well, look, I agree with you. It's -- that's not the issue. The issue that I think is embedded in there is that he questioned the patriotism of people who did." O'Reilly said, "I don't know if he did that." Rove replied, "Well, go back to the original quote." In fact, during an October 3 interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, Obama was asked why he was not wearing an American flag pin on his lapel -- a pin many politicians began wearing shortly after September 11, 2001. Obama said in response that "right after 9/11 I had a pin," adding: "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security." The New York Times reported that Obama told an Independence, Iowa, crowd on October 4: "Somebody noticed I wasn't wearing a flag lapel pin and I told folks, well you know what? I haven't probably worn that pin in a very long time. I wore it right after 9/11... But after a while, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not acting very patriotic. Not voting to provide veterans with resources that they need. Not voting to make sure that disability payments were coming out on time."
During the April 16 debate, Gibson introduced a question to Obama by asserting, "I want to do one more question, which goes to the basic issue of electability. And it is a question raised by a voter in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, a woman by the name of Nash McCabe." McCabe asked, via videotape, "Senator Obama, I have a question, and I want to know if you believe in the American flag. I am not questioning your patriotism, but all our servicemen, policemen and EMS wear the flag. I want to know why you don't." Before Obama answered, Gibson explained, "Just to add to that, I noticed you put one on yesterday. But -- you've talked about this before, but it comes up again and again when we talk to voters. And as you may know, it is all over the Internet." Obama responded, in part, by saying:
And let me just make one last point on this issue of the flag pin. As you noted, I wore one yesterday when a veteran handed it to me, who himself was disabled and works on behalf of disabled veterans. I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins. This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics has become obsessed with and, once again, distracts us from what should be my job when I'm commander in chief, which is going to be figuring out how we get our troops out of Iraq and how we actually make our economy better for the American people.
From the April 17 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:
O'REILLY: You know, I think there is a point that asking Barack Obama about the lapel pin, why he doesn't wear the flag and this and that, can appear to be, to some people, particularly overseas, picayune, unimportant. What say you?
ROVE: Well, I think it speaks to the values of the candidate. And it was a badly asked question last night. Let's remember what Barack Obama said; he said that, in the aftermath of 9-11, he stopped wearing a flag lapel pin because true patriotism consists of speaking out on an issue, not wearing a lapel pin.
What he was really doing was demonstrating this turn of mind that says, you know what? If you wear a flag lapel pin, you're not a true patriot. And he's questioned the patriotism of people who made a decision that they would honor their country by putting a flag lapel pin on. He said true patriotism was doing what he did, speaking out on the issue.
Frankly, you can be a true patriot and do both things, but I think it shows an unusual cast of mind that says true patriotism consists of doing what I did, not what other people do.
O'REILLY: All right, see, I don't wear a lapel pin. I didn't take Obama's lack of the lapel pin as anything other than he's either too lazy --
ROVE: Right.
O'REILLY: -- to put it on, or he doesn't want to put it on. It ruffles his suit or whatever. I just didn't take it any deeper than that. I could be wrong.
ROVE: Yeah.
O'REILLY: I could be wrong about everything.
ROVE: Well, look, I agree with you. It's -- that's not the issue. The issue that I think is embedded in there is that he questioned the patriotism of people who did. He said true patriotism --
O'REILLY: I don't know if he did that.
ROVE: Well, go back to the original quote.
Why isn't Rove in prison yet?
Because he wears a flag pin?
No way, hahaha. I didn't watch the video. OMG this guy has his shorts in a twist over Obama not wearing a flag pin, & he isn't wearing one either. Too funny.
Off to prison Mr. Rove!
Well I guess you do have a strange butt.
Rhetorical, I don't think that word means what you think it does.
Oh my God, you're still defending DUHBYA? Even Laura Bush doesn't defend that moron anymore. Oh I see, youre Rumplewhiteskin, you must have been asleep for the past 8 years.
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oh my, you are really weird. you cannot point to a single impeachable offense. if you could, he wouldn't go to jail, impeachment can only remove him from office. don't you know anything? that's a rhetorical question btw.
youre Rumplewhiteskin, you must have been asleep for the past 8 years. (Heru)
Wait, I think that's Rip Van Whitey. Rumplestilty spun gold out of crap, or something like that.
Maybe there is a possibly he did nothing that would make him be in prison.
LOL!
And this 73 year old body looks as good as Hallie Berry's naked.
LOL!
Rovian Logic 101:
some in group A are not B
C is in A
therefore, C is not B
Somewhere Socrates is rolling over in his grave.
I'm reminded of a scene in the movie, best years of our lives. for those of you who don't know, it takes place right after wwii and deals with the problems of returning vets adjusting to society.
anyway, the only guy who wears a flag pin is a real jerk, an american firster. He gets into a fight in a drugstore with Harold Russell (who in real life lost both hands in the navy and won an oscar for his performance). Dana Andrews, a returning air corps bombardier, comes to his rescue and loses his soda fountain job.
Personally, I find it refreshing that a politician is willing to do something so POLITICALLY INCORRECT to make a valid point. So, Karl Rove can stick his flag pin up his kazoo...... oh, wait, Karl isn't wearing a flag pin... how silly of me.
I was just going to say that I want to vote for the best candidate based on their knowledge and ability to navigate the world's challenges from a position of sensible logic, not the contents of their jewelry box.
The faux flag pin controversey is shamefully shallow and probably delights our detractors the world over. If they just step back and wait a bit, we'll tear ourselves apart on our own.
"Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security."
Uh.. what? Does this even make sense?
Is Barak saying that those who wore flag pins did not speak out on issues of importance?
"But after a while, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not acting very patriotic."
CLINTON: What he was talking about was very directly about the story of Sen. Obama's campaign, being premised on a speech he gave in 2002 and that was to his credit. He gave a speech opposing the war in Iraq. He gave a very impassioned speech against it and consistently said that he was against the war, he would vote against the funding for the war. By 2003, that speech was off his website. By 2004, he was saying that he didn't really disagree with the way George Bush was conducting the war. And by 2005, 6, and 7, he was voting for $300 billion in funding for the war. The story of his campaign is really the story of that speech and his opposition to Iraq. I think it is fair to ask questions about, what did you do after the speech was over? And when he became a senator, he didn't go to the floor of the Senate to condemn the war in Iraq for 18 months. He didn't introduce legislation against the war in Iraq. He voted against timelines and deadlines initially. So I think it's important that we get the contrast and the comparisons out. I think that's fair game. [Meet the Press, 1/13/07]As for Clinton's quote.... I find that interesting coming from someone who voted FOR the war and took forever to even acknowledge that it was a mistake.
Is Barak saying that those who wore flag pins did not speak out on issues of importance?
He's saying that speaking out on issues important to all Americans is true patriotism regardless if one wears a pin that became fashionable when the scoundrels who tried to cover up for Nixon started wearing them. It's the same thing the Bush administration and its supporters are doing today: hiding behind the flag push their insane agenda and mask the crimes of the Bush administration.
It makes perfect sense, when you familiarize yourself with the true meaning of patriotism, which includes not just love and loyalty, but a willingness to defend your country, even from the actions of a rogue presidency.
IMO, similar to placing a yellow ribbon magnet on your car, wearing a flag pin may symbolize your love of the USA, but it does nothing physically, verbally, or symbolically to defend your country.
Anyone else notice that nearly all of mmfa'a articles have lately been more or less in defense of Obama? Has the media not been misinforming about HC lately or is mmfa falling in line now and casting its lot with Obama.
Also in that regard, non-partisan investigative reporter Matt Drudge (Matt the Hat) has links on his news website regarding Howard Dean essentially telling the delegates that its now time to lay their cards on the table. Seems to me that all the big shots in the dem party want HC out now.
I heard the Howard Dean story mentioned on MSNBC this morning. If it's true, it only makes sense. Dragging out this Democratic self-mutilation only helps Gramps McCan't. Mathematically, Hillary has almost no chance to win it without a backroom deal, and that would be a disaster.
I think there's more to it than just more purported misinformation aimed at Obama. However, I don't see why HC fights on either.
Her plan seemed to be to wait and see whether Obama would slip up and give delegates a reason to dump him. But after all the rev. wright crap, his support apparently remains strong. At this point there doesnt seem to be a chance in hell of delegates giving the candidacy to HC
All of America wants her out yesterday.
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Seems to me that all the big shots in the dem party want HC out now.
article and video:
http://www.peterfpaul.com/
"Anyone else notice that nearly all of mmfa'a articles have lately been more or less in defense of Obama?"
Did you notice how much Obama is in the media lately?
MMFA wants to make sure we realize that Obama leaves open the possibility that a person who substitutes something for "true patriotism" may yet be a "true patriot".
When you substitute one thing for another, doesn't that logically mean that what has been replaced isn't there anymore?
That's a complete distortion of what this is about. What he was saying was that a portion of those who wear flag pins are substituting them for true patriotism. Another portion of the flag-pin-wearing group wear the pin, but are not substituting it for their true patriotsism, which is judged by their actions. Unfortunately, the first portion is also to most vocal, brash, and jingoistic of the group, and have therefore changed the definition of what it means to wear a flag pin (if it ever meant all that much to begin with).
I have a hard time believing that there are people who have been awake through the whole freedom-fries filled 2000's and don't agree with Obama's statement.
I still shake my head when I think of that embarrasing bit of congressional record.
I know that I want my presidential candidate to have the guts to essentially turn to the idiot screeching about freedom fires and say, "that's the dumbest f*$#ing thing I've ever heard!" Obama has come closer to that sentiment than any of the other candidates.
You know what's missing from my freedom fries?
Red, White, and Blue ketchup! I'm surprised no one ever put that out.
<b> Another portion of the flag-pin-wearing group wear the pin, but are not substituting it for their true patriotsism, which is judged by their actions. </b>
First of all, when did Obama say that?
Secondly, you now have the problem of explaining why Obama stopped wearing the flag pin, if you can have true patriotism and still wear the pin!
To answer the first part, it was implied in this portion of one of Obama's statements on the matter (referenced above):
But after a while, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not acting very patriotic
Notice how he did not say that all people wearing the pin don't act patriotic, just that there were many that were doing so. To answer the second part, he obviously didn't want to be associated with them because they are loudmouthed scum who deserve no allegiance, real or imagined. I pretty much answered this one in my original response.
Any other questions?
I have a hard time believing that there are people who have been awake through the whole freedom-fries filled 2000's and don't agree with Obama's statement.
Jawill, they don't want you remember the damn stupidity of "freedom fries" and "poring good French wine down the drain". You might remind then of their hypocrisy.
Karl is doing what he does best... making sh*t up that helps win elections for the GOP.
Apparently to the women in your life (at least according to about 40%+ of the spam emails that show up in my inbox).
well, though I love Israel, it is difficult to live there. The people are difficult, for the obvious reasons. Plus when I lived there I had trouble making a decent living, eventhough i had a masters in finance from ucla.
during the time of the '72 olympics i was travelling with my chinese girlfriend through sumatra, java, singapore, and malaysia. pretty devil may care, having spent three years in vietnam. when the athletes were killed in munich, i decided i was wasting my time and four days later i arrived in israel, not knowing but one soul, and not knowing hebrew.
by the time i decided to return to the u.s. after 3 1/2 years, i was fluent in the language. i went to law school and took notes in hebrew. because i was still thinking in hebrew and translating into english as i spoke, people praised me on my good but awkward english. now when i speak hebrew, which you have to do with contractors in los angeles, i sound like such a shleb. the accent it gone, the words are gone, it's a pity.
funny story, i was playing golf with a guy the other day. he's a bit older than i. interestingly, we were talking and he said he was born in ramallah, now the west bank. could have knocked me over with a feather. he's christian, though, and married to a jewish lady.
here in l.a. I think you can see many instances of people not wanting to assimilate. our housekeeper who comes once a week does not want her kids to speak english.
i went to a subway yesterday and the guy behind me had some complicated order, all conducted in spanish. at the ihop the menus are bilingual. this is all anecdotal, but i think it's a real problem.
I think you can see many instances of people not wanting to assimilate
Resistance is futile, says the Borg. Believe me, I definitely do not want to assimilate myself into your flawed opinion of current events.
Rumple,
Don't you think by hiring such a person and financially supporting her that you are contributing to the problem?
Weren't you golfing with someone famous?
In his last incarnation, History Bluff was always dining with the swells. He'd come and spin a wondrous tale of dinners with Supreme Court Justices and forgotten B List movie stars.
Now he's bitching about his housekeeper only coming once a week and his having to stand in line behind a Latino with "some complicated order" at Subway.
Personally, I don't care about the "complicated" order of the person behind me, as I'm usually gone by then. Unless I'm hanging around Subway after I've got my sandwich to monitor complicated linguistic problems.
My real concern is that "at the ihop the menus are bilingual."
It's the International House of Pancakes, and they only have two languages represented?? I want at least Blintz,Danish, French Toast, Omelette and Huevos Rancheros, damn it!!!!!!.
John is seeking(he says) to eliminate all earmarks. All of our foreign aid to Israel comes from earmarks.
Coment?
In other words trust him. Srub wore out any inclination I may have had to trust a republican politician.
I'm sure any of our fine media friends will be jumping over each other to insist he's trustworthy. I've found their opinions of little value. Given their track record. WMD,torture,suspension of civil liberties, you can be better informed with two tin cans and some string.
I've found that if you disagree with them, you're usually correct.
that is an unfair slam on the evangelicals. that is not what they think at all and is a scurrilous lie. the return will happen in g-d's time, not ours.
two weeks ago i attended services at Hagee's church. At the entrance is a courtyard made of Jerusalem stone with the 122nd psalm inscribed on a wall. inside the Israeli flag sits on the dais with the American flag.
the sanctuary is decorated with tapestries depicting the 12 tribes
Hagee was not there, he was in Jerusalem. But the homily was moving and powerful, given by a man with cerebral palsy and a speech defect.
The wingnuts could care less about Israel. These koolaid slurping warmongers just want to set off Armageddon so the world can come to an end as quickly as possible.
that is an unfair slam on the evangelicals. that is not what they think at all and is a scurrilous lie. the return will happen in g-d's time, not ours.
The rapture righties want their savior to return now and they will do anything to facilitate it.
just read the book. is it pablum you want?
I trust the republicans - rump
Nothing else needs to be said about your credibility.
When flagpingate first erupted, I thought that if I were in that situation, I would start wearing as many flag pins as I could fit on my entire suit jacket, or alternatively a flag pin about 2 feetx3 feet big to every public event. I wouldn't comment about it, I would let the pins speak for themselves.
Everything's relative, I guess. When turdblossom's on, O'Reilly plays "good cop".
Well, not completely. His defense of Obama for not wearing the pin included the guess that it was due to laziness.
I just wanted to link to an article by Bill Moyer on why he decided to wear his flag pin again.
The country does not belong to people who wear flags on their chests or stick them to their cars.
As john prine put it so eloquently "your flag decal won't get you into heaven any more, It's already over crowded with your dirty little war."
sk
opps forgot the link
http://www.pbs.org/now/commentary/moyers19.html
SK
Funny, I see hear the exact same thing when Terry McAuliffe or Howard Dean open their mouths.
I have exactly the same amount of respect for the above two, as I do for Rove... that is, none whatsoever.
The issue is simple: Patriotism to the US is a good thing. Equating patriotism and liberal domestic social agendas is stupid. Obama very nearly says that unless you agree with him on domestic policy, you are not patriotic.
But what is cute about Obama is that now, well, gee - he's wearing one. Cyncism.
"Obama very nearly says that ..."
Is this sort of like when the McCain's almost gave away all of their money?Do you dittoheads ever discuss anything that actually happened, or just your imaginary fluff?