Matthews discussed "grumpy old men" who hang around diners "because they don't want to be at home with their wives"
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SUMMARY: On Real Time, Bill Maher said to Chris Matthews: "I heard you say on your show, you were talking about Barack Obama and you said -- and I know you like him. But you said when he goes into a diner, he can't ask the average guy, you know, how the Phillies doing and all that stuff. And you said he was -- at one point, he was offered coffee and he turned it down and asked if he could have orange juice instead." After Matthews said, "Yeah," Maher continued: "First of all, Chris, you don't understand black people. They like juice. Preferably gin and juice." In response, Matthews replied: "No, no. Not true. Let me, you know, it's -- you walk into a diner, one of these things where grumpy old men are hanging around because they don't want to be at home with their wives for an hour a morning and they're hanging around there."
On the April 18 edition of HBO's Real Time, host Bill Maher interviewed Chris Matthews and, referencing recent comments that Matthews had made about Sen. Barack Obama on MSNBC's Hardball, stated: "I heard you say on your show, you were talking about Barack Obama and you said -- and I know you like him. But you said when he goes into a diner, he can't ask the average guy, you know, how the Phillies doing and all that stuff. And you said he was -- at one point, he was offered coffee and he turned it down and asked if he could have orange juice instead." After Matthews said, "Yeah," Maher continued: "First of all, Chris, you don't understand black people. They like juice. Preferably gin and juice." In response, Matthews replied: "No, no. Not true. Let me, you know, it's -- you walk into a diner, one of these things where grumpy old men are hanging around because they don't want to be at home with their wives for an hour a morning and they're hanging around there."
Responding to Matthews' assertion that "grumpy old men" hang around diners in order to avoid their wives, Maher claimed: "Oh, I think you've just caused yourself a problem at home. Talking about causing problems, I wonder what your wife is going to say about that. Speaking of which, Chris, I mean, you have been criticized about being a little sexist about [Sen.] Hillary [Clinton]." Matthews responded: "Oh, thank you for that. Why don't you put that in the bloodstream again. Get that out there in the water. Give it a little propaganda out there."
As Media Matters for America noted, on the April 16 edition of Hardball, Matthews asserted that Obama "can't walk into a dinette [sic] with five or six guys there, white guys, in some cases." Matthews continued: "He can't just shake hands and hang out. He doesn't seem to, 'Hey, you know, how are the Eagles doing?' Or 'How are the Phils doing?' " Similarly, on the April 10 edition of Hardball, Matthews and MSNBC correspondent David Shuster critiqued Obama's reported request for orange juice after being offered coffee at an Indiana diner.
From the April 18 edition of HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher:
MAHER: All right, but I heard you say on your show, you were talking about Barack Obama and you said -- and I know you like him. But you said when he goes into a diner, he can't ask the average guy, you know, how the Phillies doing and all that stuff. And you said he was -- at one point, he was offered coffee and he turned it down and asked if he could have orange juice instead.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
MAHER: First of all, Chris, you don't understand black people. They like juice. Preferably gin and juice. I know this --
MATTHEWS: No, no. Not true. Let me, you know, it's -- you walk into a diner, one of these things where grumpy old men are hanging around because they don't want to be at home with their wives for an hour a morning and they're hanging around there -- you know. And they want that hour away and that third place, we call it, some place between work and home. And they're hanging around there having their cup of coffee, and I noticed he couldn't go up to people and just sort of say, how are you doing, what do you hear? He didn't seem to know how to do that, and I think that's gonna cause him a problem in this election.
MAHER: Oh, I think you've just caused yourself a problem at home. Talking about causing problems, I wonder what your wife is going to say about that. Speaking of which, Chris, I mean, you have been criticized about being a little sexist about Hillary.
MATTHEWS: Oh, thank you for that. Why don't you put that in the bloodstream again. Get that out there in the water. Give it a little propaganda out there.
MAHER: Well, no, but it seems like you --
MATTHEWS: Who's criticized me? Hillary? Who's done this? Help me out.
MAHER: Yes, Hillary Clinton thinks that you're sexist.
MATTHEWS: Well, you know, she's got a problem with a lot of us.
MAHER: A lot -- who -- and who are you meaning "us"? Media? Men?
MATTHEWS: No, I mean -- well, not Media Matters; they're on her side. No, media people, I think. I think she's been tough on the media. I think she's run a terrible campaign. She's better than her campaign. I think her press people have caused more trouble than their worth. I think the guy running her operation, Mark Penn -- she's out yesterday saying, "Tell people when you go door-to-door I'm not as bad as you think."
MAHER: Right.
MATTHEWS: I mean, and after all this billions of dollars she's spent on the campaign and we got a worse impression of her than she is? That's not a campaign; that's an assassination.
MAHER: But don't you think she has a point that gender has actually been a bigger factor in this campaign than race?
MATTHEWS: No, actually there are more women Democrats than there are male Democrats. It should help her.
MAHER: OK.
MATTHEWS: Shouldn't it?
MAHER: Why is she doing better with Catholics?
Another drink guys?
Don't worry this bar never closes.
I think it was Johnny Carson who said he knew it was time to retire when he had said everything he ever had to say TWICE on the air.
And that's the problem with this 24/7 "news" network thing. These guys talk constantly, and long ago ran out of things to say. But they have to keep talking, so they lapse into a weird kind of "stream of consciousness" narrative, letting us know "what they're thinking" as if every damn thing that pops into their heads is a pearl of wisdom. It's become like a teen's "DEAR DIARY" quest for meaning and self-importance, and they're sharing it with us because ... they're paid to just keep talking.
Thus, we KNOW who that grumpy old man in the diner to avoid spending time with his wife IS. No matter what the topic, everything NOW discussed is all about Chris Matthews (or Sean Hannity, or Rush Limbaugh). We are witnessing the very epitome of narcissism, and there's no reason on earth that anyone should be that interested in these guys. Perhaps because they are atypical and dysfunctional in so many ways, it's a curiosity like watching the old Jerry Springer show. But it's way too creepy. And it advances our knowledge of "news" not a single iota.
Meanwhile, Bush and Cheney's Oil War is sucking the Treasury dry, and they can't seem to find time to examine this monstrous fraud?
Well, where most of the comments are missing the point is the fact that Matthews said this on Bill Maher's news/comedy show. I saw his appearance, and while I don't care much for Chris Matthews and didn't think the comment delivered it's intended comedic effect, this story is nonetheless a waste of MMFA's efforts. Hardly an example of "conservative misinformation," this episode is more a personal attack on a conservative-leaning pundit with whom MMFA has taken issue mainly for being anti-Hillary.
The point is, a conservative can say something stupid without it being "misinformation." Even if we are to assume that this is just Chris Matthews being his typical sexist self, exactly which gender is he being sexist towards? Is it the women, who are so unbearable to be around that their husbands run off to diners every day, or the pig-headed men who run away from their loving wives to cavort with other malcontent husbands? Since there is no clear bias exhibited in Matthews' comment, one can only really say that it was a stupid, unfunny statement. Like Congress getting involved in Major League Baseball's steroid problem, MMFA's choice to become involved in this issue is both unwarranted and irrelevant to the website's stated mission.
Part of the reason I read MMFA is because, for the most part, they are not idealogical or agenda-driven. They correct conservative bias in the media, and do a great job. But the constant harrassment of Chris Matthews and related support of Hillary Clinton's candidacy are not only part of an agenda, but it is an agenda (supporting Hillary) that most major progressive institutions (Huffington Post, Bill Maher, Randi Rhodes, Rolling Stone, MoveOn.org, The Nation) do not support, and have in fact been very vocal opponents of Senator Clinton. So Hillary, in her corner, has NOW (for obvious reasons) and MMFA (for not so obvious ones). I think it's time for MMFA to either drop the "Progressive" label from their mission statement, or stop supporting Hillary Clinton at every turn.
Yes, I'm aware of Matthews' "diner motif" as it relates to Senator Obama. But his "grumpy men" comment really had nothing to do with Obama or Clinton, it was just an ill-conceived effort at comedy embedded in a discussion of Obama's supposed lack of "Diner Cred." MMFA already devoted several pages (here and here) to the Obama-orange juice fiasco, so in this instance, one would have to admit that they're just piling on Matthews.
In a way, I believe the diner story is relevant to a discussion about the election. What people either fail to understand or have difficulty admitting, is that many, many voting Americans are woefully uninformed when it comes to deciding how to vote in a general election. I mean, polling indicates that 10% of registered voters don't even know who John McCain is. Like it or not, uninformed voters are likely going to decide the presidency of the United States, and because of this, nonsense about bowling scores and $400 haircuts becomes relevant. Should the media continue to harp on these issues? Of course not. Should an entire hour of a nationally televised debate be devoted to tabloid garbage? Hell no. But if anyone thinks for a minute that your average American is capable of sifting through the BS and evaluating the core issues without being distracted by the gossip-column stuff, well, think again. So when it comes to perpetuating these stories, the media is certainly culpable. But when it comes to evaluating how stories like this may help or hurt a candidate, it's completely legitimate to talk about because that is how many Americans vote.
In fact, I think Bill Maher put it best (on the very same episode as the Matthews gaffe) when he said, referring to Obama's "bitter" comments:
"You know who's bitter in America? I am. Because sh**kickers voted twice for a retarded guy they wanted to have a beer with, and everybody else had to suffer the consequences."
That about sums it up.
I like how it is always the candidates fault because they ran a lousy campaign. Just like in 2000 when they said Gore ran a bad campaign. Gore's "loss" had nothing to do with the media and all the lies they told about him. It was all Gore's doing.
And I'm sure they'll say the same about Obama's campaign in the general election after the media savages him.
Why are you calling him "Chrissy"?
Everybody!
Come see!
INTERESTINGOBSERVER made a funny!
Chris!" "Somebody wake Chris, would ya?" "Hey, Chris, no sleepin' in the booth, good buddy." "Gotta do this next month, O.K.?" "See ya."
DONALD:
Bingo!
"...grumpy old men are hanging around because they don't want to be at home with their wives for an hour a morning..."
And they call the waitress "Darlin'" and tip her a dollar. I hadn't realized that they were such a large voting block that merited all this attention. ;>)
Oscar,
Maher is a "comedian" so he can pretty much say anything he wants, racist or not...or so I've been told by the Libs here.
Since St. Keith says Limbaugh is a "comedian", I think Rush should be able to say whatever he likes without criticism. But of course the rules are always changing around here so it probably won't happen ;-)
Not to defend Maher, because sometimes he ticks me off, but he is a comedian first and foremost. KO refers to Rush as a comedian in jest, Rush doesn't call himself that. The difference is, knowing Maher is a comedian, you can take what he says with a grain of salt because IMO comedians serve an important role in society as framers of the inanities and hypocrisies of everyday life. And part of that is being offensive. You may disagree, which a lot of people do (this is a fairly large debate in the comedic circles,) but you can't deny that offensive comedians are funny because they fulfill a need to be able to laugh at things we find offensive.
Dbeden,
I was being kinda facetious about Rush. However, I still sometimes find it interesting how we can take a racist remark & dub it either a slur/smear or humorous depending on whom uttered it.
I mean if you really think about it, it's the remark that's offensive. Deciding its funny rather than disgusting because a comedian said it rather than a journalist is what I find kind of comical.
But hey that's just me.
Bingo is another topic. Or is it "bimbo" or "Ringo" or, Oh, forget it....
Up here in Massachusetts we refer to a "diner" as one of those railroad car type of joints that serve breakfast, lunch & dinner. There are only a few still around where I live.
I suppose any place where folks gather for breakfast is what Matthews considers a "diner".
I sometimes meet friends for coffee at a hole-in-the wall restaurant that serves only breakfast & lunch. It opens at 5am closes at 2pm. It's rare to find strangers dining there. It's mostly regs of all ages. Including the "old guys". They don't seem particularly grumpy. But maybe they are. And I've no idea whether they are there to get away from their wives. Could be.
Is this really mis-information on Matthews part? Conservative mis-information at that? Or just a generalization that does no real harm. Sure Matthews suggesting Obama can't walk into places like this & feel comfortable sounds like bunk. From what I've seen Obama is a very personable guy that has zero problems mingling with folks anywhere he goes.
Now I do wonder how Bill Maher gets away with his remarks :"First of all, Chris, you don't understand black people. They like juice. Preferably gin and juice."
Can you imagine if Matthews had said that? Bet it would have been the headline here.
Yeah yeah, Maher is allegedly a "comedian". So as long as one claims to be a "comedian", anything goes? It's the messenger, not the message? Boy it must be great to have carte blanch to say anything you'd like, even racist remarks. Journalists everywhere should call themselves comedians.
Hey your St. Keith has dubbed Limbaugh a "comedian", which means Rush should be immune to criticism for anything he utters if Maher is.
Now Matthews feigning surprise at Maher's suggestion that he's sexist towards Hillary was comical. Matthews has been pretty vicious in his criticism of her. Some deserved, some not. Some blatantly sexist, some not.
Matthews suggesting that MMFA is pro-Hillary seems to be a myth out there started by Bill O'Reilly. MMFA is not Pro Hillary or Obama. They are Pro-Democrat/Liberal/Progressive.
Jeter, how about they're anti-conservative misinformation? I think that works, MMfA has never said they are anti-anything. ;)
The diner comment certainly puts forth a false idea of who Obama is (and you said so yourself) so in this case, I believe it's misinformation.
Dbeden,
I agree, the part about Obama is mis-information. The part about grumpy old men taking refuge at a diner to get away from their wives is debatable ;-)
"Now I do wonder how Bill Maher gets away with his remarks :'First of all, Chris, you don't understand black people. They like juice. Preferably gin and juice.'"
Which court is supposed to be trying Bill Maher in this case?
Are you mystified that HBO subscribers are not protesting in front of the Real Time studios threatening in mass to pull their subscriptions?
Are you dumbfounded that an Imus-like public outcry hasn't taken place during the four days that this has had a chance to seep out beyond HBO's audience?
Or are you simply calling the hypocrisy WAHHmbulance on MMFA's left-leaning posters?
Answers is what you want, answers you shall receive.
Maher has been found GUILTY of extremely poor taste in my court.
HBO has a smaller audience than Imanass and the 5 viewers couldn't come up with bus fare after paying their cable bill.
This the only place I've anything about the "Juice & Gin", so I'm assuming that the majority of the posters here agree with what he said. (And I'm sure they agree with statements about the Pope.)
HYPOCRISY at its finest, yes!!!!!
Hypocrisy WAHHambulance it is then. Not surprising.
BTW, "Gin And Juice" is the title of a Snoop Dog song from his '93 album Doggystyle. It was very popular back when Mtv still played videos.
I don't get why MMFA is quoting this.