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NewsBusters attacked Pelosi as "more of a shallow politician than a devout Christian" for calling the Dalai Lama "His Holiness" -- as Bush has repeatedly done

April 25, 2008 6:20 pm ET

SUMMARY: Tim Graham, the Media Research Center's director of media analysis, wrote in a NewsBusters blog post that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "show[ed] she's more of a shallow politician than a devout Christian" for calling the Dalai Lama "His Holiness." However, Graham did not mention another prominent politician who has referred to the Dalai Lama as "His Holiness": President George W. Bush.

110 Comments

In an April 25 entry on the blog NewsBusters, Tim Graham, director of media analysis for the Media Research Center, wrote that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) "presents herself as a 'devout Catholic,' and was kissing the ring of Pope Benedict in Washington last week, no doubt honoring him as 'Your Holiness.' But in the April 21 Time, she recommends the Dalai Lama to be in Time's Top 100 (most influential people, and he's also 'His Holiness.' How many gods does Pelosi worship? Devout Catholics worship one God. Tibetan Buddhists worship a multiplicity of gods." In his post, Graham added that "His Holiness" is "certainly the title that the Dalai Lama uses, but that doesn't mean everyone in public life does ... At best, Pelosi's promiscuous definitions of holiness just show she's more of a shallow politician than a devout Christian." However, while Graham attacked Pelosi for "promiscuous definitions of holiness," he ignored another prominent politician who referred to the Dalai Lama as "His Holiness": President George W. Bush.

At an October 17, 2007, ceremony, Bush awarded the Congressional Gold Medal to the Dalai Lama. In his remarks, Bush referred to the Dalai Lama as "Your Holiness" once, and "His Holiness" three times:

BUSH: Madam Speaker; and Senator Byrd; Mr. Leader; members of the congressional delegation, particularly Senators Feinstein and Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen; Senator Thomas -- God rest his soul -- distinguished guests, particularly our friend, Elie Wiesel; and Your Holiness.

[...]

Nearly two decades have passed since the Dalai Lama was welcomed to the White House for the very first time. Members of both of our political parties and world leaders have seen His Holiness as a man of faith and sincerity and peace. He's won the respect and affection of the American people -- and America has earned his respect and affection, as well.

As a nation, we are humbled to know that a young boy in Tibet -- as a young boy in Tibet, His Holiness kept a model of the Statue of Liberty at his bedside.

[...]

I congratulate His Holiness on this recognition. I'm so honored to be here with you, sir. Laura and I join all Americans in offering the people of Tibet our fervent prayer that they may find days of prosperity and peace.

Press secretaries in the Bush White House have also frequently referred to the Dalai Lama as "His Holiness." For example:

  • A May 23, 2001, press release from then-White House press secretary Ari Fleischer stated: "His Holiness, the XIV Dalai Lama, met at the White House this morning with the President and the National Security Advisor to discuss Tibet."
  • A September 10, 2003, press release from then-White House press secretary Scott McClellan stated: "His Holiness, the XIV Dalai Lama, met at the White House this morning with the President. This was their second meeting to discuss Tibet."
  • During a November 9, 2005, press briefing, McClellan stated: "[T]he President and Mrs. Bush look forward to welcoming His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, back to the White House. They will be meeting with His Holiness over in the Residence. This is the third meeting that the President has had here at the White House with His Holiness."

Graham's April 25 NewsBusters post in its entirety:

Despite her Bible mangling, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi presents herself as a "devout Catholic," and was kissing the ring of Pope Benedict in Washington last week, no doubt honoring him as "Your Holiness." But in the April 21 Time, she recommends the Dalai Lama to be in Time's Top 100 (most influential people, and he's also "His Holiness." How many gods does Pelosi worship? Devout Catholics worship one God. Tibetan Buddhists worship a multiplicity of gods. Pelosi wrote:

His Holiness the Dalai Lama describes himself as a "simple monk," but he represents so much more to so many. He is a source of spiritual refuge, and has used his position to promote wisdom, compassion and nonviolence as a solution to world conflicts.

That's certainly the title that the Dalai Lama uses, but that doesn't mean everyone in public life does. In fact, Dan Rather also recommended the Tibetan monk for the Person of the Year honors in the December 17, 2007 issue without the honorific:

The environment is the defining issue of our time. But if the list must be confined to a one-person nomination, the Dalai Lama -- for his contributions to peace, spirituality, philosophy, and science, as well as his nonviolent efforts on behalf of freedom from oppression for his people.

Is Pelosi's defense going to be she's just more spiritual than Dan Rather? At best, Pelosi's promiscuous definitions of holiness just show she's more of a shallow politician than a devout Christian.

[Correction appended: I originally wrote Rather recommended the Dalai Lama for the Time 100, not Person of the Year.] [emphasis in original]

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    • Author by tommy (April 25, 2008 6:23 pm ET)
         
      Isn't criticizing a Newsbusters blog post a little bit of a digging-deep-down-in-the-barrel-type stretch here?  I mean, who cares.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (April 25, 2008 6:28 pm ET)
           
        That is probably a legitimate criticism. I mean its not like Newsbusters is mainstream media. You have to admit though the Newsbusters article was garbage.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (April 25, 2008 6:34 pm ET)
             
          Most of what is on Newsbusters is crap.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by MagCynic (April 25, 2008 6:40 pm ET)
               
            NewsBusters is the same thing as Media Matters only coming from a conservative viewpoint.  Does that make everything that appears on Media Matters crap, then?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mary59 (April 28, 2008 12:32 pm ET)
                 
              Newsbusters is not the same as Media Matters. That comparison is amazing considering the fact that MM links to transcripts and video; in most of their articles they simply let the stupidity of the right wing fog machine speak for itself with very brief commentary.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by mefirst (April 25, 2008 8:15 pm ET)
               
            and therefore subject to criticism on this site, whether or not it meets your agenda of what is suitable for comment.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (April 28, 2008 11:48 am ET)
                 
              Mefirst , if you're agreeing that Newsbusters is comparable to MMFA, just from a different viewpoint, I suggest you visit NB. It's crap.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (April 26, 2008 3:01 am ET)
               

            Tommy, I agree that Newsbusters is crap, and that a relatively small number of people read it, but I get tired of that defense of BS. Nobody takes Rush Limbaugh seriously, Fox News doesn't have that big of an audience.

            This stuff is viral. I see it where I live,in a very conservative area. There are a lot of people who don't read papers or look at any serious news source, they're too busy at their kids soccer games and looking at porn on the internet. But they all have at least one very outspoken wingnut friend in their circle who listens to Rush or reads Newsbusters, and has just enough info. to sound reliable.

            That's what I see, anyway. People with virtually no firsthand info, but very susceptible to that misinformed neighbor

            Report Abuse
            • Author by therick (April 26, 2008 1:19 pm ET)
                 

              I agree totally.  Someone I know (who listens to Rush, and watched only FOX) mentioned to me that she had heard Obama was a Muslim, but she had also heard he had a "disgustingly racist pastor."  Somehow, in her mind, she had negotiated a way to believe both of these things, even though they are in direct conflict.

              They'll believe what they want to believe, regardless of facts, which is why they tune to the likes of Rush and FOX--programs that will support their idea of "everything Democratic is bad, everything Republican is good."

              Report Abuse
              • Author by masonmcd (April 26, 2008 9:30 pm ET)
                   
                And it probably might be good for someone to note that Buddhists *don't* worship "a multiplicity of gods."

                He's thinking of Hindu.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by Chromium (April 26, 2008 2:51 pm ET)
                 

              Col. said: "Newsbusters is crap, and that a relatively small number of people read it"

              Well, Newsbusters has more readers than this site!

              According to Alexa.com, for the past 3 months, Newsbusters has had 41% more "global internet users" than Media Matters.

              So, if in your view, a "relatively small number of people" read Newsbusters, how do you want to characterize the readership of Media Matters? 

               

               

              Report Abuse
              • Author by juliajayne (April 26, 2008 3:51 pm ET)
                   
                Since Newsbusters seems to be mostly crap, what impact or influence in media circles do they have comapred to MMFA. Is readership (if your figures are correct) have a porportionate impact/influence. Seems to me MMFA is cited more often probably because they are more legitimate. Is readership THE legitimizing force in your mind?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Chromium (April 26, 2008 4:28 pm ET)
                     

                  1. I do not concur that Newsbusters is mostly crap.  It may be the typical MMFA commentator's opinion, but is not mine.

                  2.  I made no claim about readership versus anything else, as you seem to imply.  But, now that you mention it, maybe your choice of things to read makes you think MMFA is more cited.  I have no data either way. 

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by prof (April 26, 2008 5:39 pm ET)
                       

                    1. I do not concur that Newsbusters is mostly crap.  It may be the typical MMFA commentator's opinion, but is not mine.

                    2.  I made no claim about readership versus anything else, as you seem to imply.  But, now that you mention it, maybe your choice of things to read makes you think MMFA is more cited.  I have no data either way. 

                    • - MissouriShowMe / Saturday April 26, 2008 4:28:12 PM EDT
                    We are all happy that you think Newsbusters is less than mostly crap.  Congratulations on making such an earth shattering assessment.  As for myself, I'm going to assess the Newsbuster story (which you don't deny).  Let's see, according to the story, Nancy Pelosi is "more of a shallow politician than a devout Christian" for calling the Dalai Lama "His Holiness."  Yet our very own "Christian" president used those same words (along with dozens of other national leaders throughout the world).  Is this Crap or Not?  Hmmmm.  LOL, tough call, eh?  
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by prof (April 26, 2008 5:40 pm ET)
                         

                      retry: 

                      We are all happy that you think Newsbusters is less than mostly crap.  Congratulations on making such an earth shattering assessment.  As for myself, I'm going to assess the Newsbuster story (which you don't deny).  Let's see, according to the story, Nancy Pelosi is "more of a shallow politician than a devout Christian" for calling the Dalai Lama "His Holiness."  Yet our very own "Christian" president used those same words (along with dozens of other national leaders throughout the world).  Is this Crap or Not?  Hmmmm.  LOL, tough call, eh? 

                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by juliajayne (April 26, 2008 11:45 pm ET)
                       

                    Ha, ha...this is rich. I'm so going to take the word of a site that uses words like leftists and calls the Democratic party the "democrat" party. No bias there fo' shizzle. Yeah..Newsbusters!!!!!!!! 

                    Chris Wallace was considate to Obama, take that leftists!!!!!!!!! 

                    Obama dusts off his shoulder like a rapper, take that liberal media!!!!!

                    I see why people read Newsbusters, you can't beat the unintentional humor.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by juliajayne (April 27, 2008 3:46 pm ET)
                         

                      From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexa_Internet

                      There is some controversy over how representative Alexa's user base is of typical Internet behavior. If Alexa's user base is a fair statistical sample of the Internet user population (e.g., a random sample of sufficient size), Alexa's ranking should be quite accurate. In reality, not much is known about the sample and possible sampling biases. Alexa itself notes several examples.[12][13] A known source of bias is the self-selecting, opt-in nature of Alexa traffic tracking software installation, but the significance of this bias on rankings is not reported.[14]

                      On April 16th, 2008 many users reported dramatic shifts in their Alexa rankings. Alexa confirmed this later in the day with an announcement that they had released the "New Alexa Ranking System" claiming that they now take into account more data sources.[15].

                      Just FYI.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mary59 (April 27, 2008 9:13 pm ET)
                           
                        Alexa a question: if 5 really rich greedy thugs buy up thousands of copies of a book by, say, Ann Coulter, does this mean that the book is a best seller? Or if it is, how many buyers are morons? I'd say 95%, with plus or mins 5%
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by juliajayne (April 28, 2008 12:20 am ET)
                             

                          I say the balance of the 5 % are morons too.

                          Could we correlate that to the NB site as well. Or did you just do that ;-)

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mary59 (April 28, 2008 12:34 pm ET)
                               
                            I hope so...but I give the plus or minus crowd a pass because it might be incredulous lefties who just can't believe people are lapping up this stuff.
                            Report Abuse
              • Author by wesley (April 26, 2008 6:21 pm ET)
                   

                 -- Newsbusters has had 41% more "global internet users" than Media Matters. -- missourishowme

                Nice job Mo...you caught'em talking out of their anal cavities...which caused all kinds of spluttering about relevance, impact, influence...blah blah blah.

                You very competently pricked the elitist bubble.

                Here's a little extra grist for the mill:

                Rushlimbaugh.com gets almost twice as many users (after reaching millions on the radio) than mmfa.

                O'reilly.com gets almost 5 times as many users as mmfa.

                FoxNews.com gets over 32 times as many users as mmfa. 

                After experiencing a nice run when they started...mmfa's traffic has collapsed to about the same rate as when they opened their doors...now that's influence for you. 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by mefirst (April 26, 2008 7:32 pm ET)
                     
                  speaking of anal cavities, your ***holiness,  that's been the constant contention of you guys for four years, that mmfa has no influence.  except their name seems to fall frequently from the lips of rushbo, o'reilly, and dozens of other right wingers.  maybe you need to get in touch with them and let them know this site is not relevant.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by juliajayne (April 26, 2008 11:57 pm ET)
                     

                  Gosh, Col., are you going for some kind of prize? First you are a radical leftist and now you (and I suppose all of us, couldn't tell from the rambling post there) are an elitist ranter. What's next you wingnut moniker hog?

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (April 27, 2008 3:39 am ET)
                       

                    JJ, I've got "troll" and "bigot" from Barney Fife, Rumplestiltskin recently named me somethng like "in the top 3 disgusting,ignorant idiots here". I could not be prouder of my accomplishments.

                    Now I have a couple of fresh wingnuts debating some argument that they imagined I made. Well done, Real Americans.

                    Report Abuse
                • Author by solon (April 27, 2008 5:40 pm ET)
                     
                  WHAT? Your post was 100% logic FREE. Even IF it were true which cannot be established by Alexa so what? That has exactly WHAT connection to whether or not Newsbusters is crap? More traffic only means THAT, more traffic, it is in no demonstrable way connected to the quality of the site I guess that WOULD bust your idiocy balloon then again you wingnuts do seem to be completely immune to logic, facts, OR reality.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (April 26, 2008 8:27 pm ET)
                   

                MoSho, you and Wesley, as usual, completely missed the point. I was responding to Tommy's contention that Newsbusters was not significant enough to have their BS mentioned here. Read my first post, more slowly this time, or with some adult supervision, and see if you can keep your Ratings Queen reflexes in check.

                I was not taking a shot at Newsbusters for their lack of popularity, nor saying that NB is not influential because of its relatively small number of visitors, but that it has an impact, indirectly, in spite of the small number of people who get their BS firsthand. Propaganda actually works best by word of mouth, as the people repeating it repeat what they think they read, which often ignores the deceptive words carefully put in the original source to keep things technically true, or close to it.

                Sorry, I wish there was a SUPER BOLD font I could use when responding to you guys. It gets really old having to simplify everything to the point where you can avoid arguing with these phantoms you love to battle.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by wesley (April 26, 2008 9:05 pm ET)
                     

                   -- a relatively small number of people read it -- Col Harlan Sanders

                  Mo simply put your statement in context...if relatively few people read newsbusters...where does that put mmfa?  It means that significantly fewer people read mmfa than newsbusters...simple, even for the pompous to understand. You know...like the smart ones who read newspapers.

                   -- Nobody takes Rush Limbaugh seriously -- Col Harlan Sanders

                  False...as proven by his 20 years and top ranking...there are many who take him seriously...whether you like it or not. And you directly contradicted yourself by then saying, "they all have at least one very outspoken wingnut friend in their circle who listens to Rush"...whining that this person took him seriously and was contaminating the minds of his uneducated friends...LOL

                  But aside from that...MoShow spanked and powdered you by showing the goofiness of your statement...one that was the outcome of an elitist ranter with an inflated self-image...mmfa has significantly lower traffic than newsbusters...a fact that even the dullest of pencils in the box can figure out...or can you?

                  Other than that...Have a Nice Day...and you know what that's code for. 

                  Well King, this case is closed. 

                   

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by juliajayne (April 27, 2008 12:15 am ET)
                       
                    I must have missed where the Col. said nobody takes Rush Limbaugh seriously. Where did he say that? I reread his posts and didn't see it. Wesley, I think you've been reading NB too much. Really, am I going blind? His contention was that regardless of readership/listenership the effect of word of mouth is huge to non thinking types that repeat stupid stuff without getting it firsthand for themselves. Same with NB. And you and MoSHO brought up readership but it didn't mean to imply anything? Give me a break. Neither one of you answered my question BTW. Is the fact that NB has such a "huge" readship compared to here indicative of anything?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by juliajayne (April 27, 2008 12:20 am ET)
                         
                      Oh and since you missed it, Col. was saying the opposite - that YOU guys are the ones that say Limbaugh isn't to be taken seriously when you try to promulgate his BS as comedy/entertainment only. But sarcasm is not for the literal minded.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (April 27, 2008 3:32 am ET)
                           

                        Thanks, Juliajayne, I probably should have put some of that in quotes- I did write "nobody takes Rush seriously". Obviously, you understood my intent, I was stating it in the way that those do who try to downplay the influence of propaganda.

                        Even after an explanation, with the key words in bold, Wesley seems confused.

                        Maybe it would be easier if I just said I got spanked by whoever Wes imagined I got spanked by, and let it go. I don't know how much more I could dumb it down.

                        I was about to thank Weslley and the other poster, for illustrating my point- that cons read just what they want to read, then I realized I fell right into their trap- I'm an elitist for expecting people to understand plain English.

                        They may have a point- if there are enough illiterates to swing an election, the GOP may have the advantage.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by juliajayne (April 27, 2008 2:42 pm ET)
                             
                          How do like how Wesley below points out the literal words as if that means something to the context. I actually don't think you needed to use bold or quotes or anything. Your meaning was clear to all but wingnutters. That's why they need places like NB. This site is too difficult for them.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by juliajayne (April 27, 2008 3:51 pm ET)
                               

                            Seriously Wes, you need to reread the Colonel's post in response to Tommy (in context). You and MoSho are breathtakingly unable to grasp a general concept which could be funny if it weren't so sad (especially for our country).

                            BTW, I didn't expect an answer to my question. I knew it wasn't possible for either of you.

                            Report Abuse
                    • Author by wesley (April 27, 2008 9:09 am ET)
                         

                       -- I must have missed where the Col. said nobody takes Rush Limbaugh seriously. -- juliajayne

                      Yep, you did..."Nobody takes Rush Limbaugh seriously" - Col. Harlan Sanders / Saturday April 26, 2008 3:01:42 AM EDT

                       -- I think you've been reading NB too much. Really, am I going blind? -- juliajayne

                      You're delving into mind reading...OK...they say that when you go blind your other senses become more acute. 

                       -- And you and MoSHO brought up readership but it didn't mean to imply anything?  -- juliajayne

                      Correctamundo. It didn't mean to "imply" anything. It "explicitly" pointed out that mmfa's traffic count was lower than NB, Limbaugh, and foxnews websites...it's called context.

                       -- Neither one of you answered my question BTW -- juliajayne

                      Just because you ask a question...doesn't mean it will be answered. Lots of questions around here go unanswered.

                      Does the fact that a site has a large audience make it more accurate than a site with a small audience? Nope.

                      Does the fact that a site has a large audience make it more relevant than a site with a small audience? Yep.

                      That's why advertisers pay more money to outlets with higher traffic counts...because they are more relevant in getting out their message.

                      It makes sense that some liberals would take offense at the information provided in NB, etal...just as some conservatives take offense at the information reported in mmfa. Does that prove that one site is more accurate than another...nope.

                      I will imply this...mmfa has become less relevant over time. Why? Because their traffic count has regressed to around their start-up traffic count. This slip in viewership for a political site...during one of the most hotly contested presidential races ever...may mean that their silly, inane, wordsmithing schtick has become stale.

                       -- the effect of word of mouth is huge to non thinking types that repeat stupid stuff -- juliajayne

                      I don't know if it's huge...but it certainly has an impact. But you can come down from the liberal high ground. There are plenty of "non-thinking types" all across the political spectrum and it has been that way through out history...nothing new today and it's not going to change.

                      I can agree that the voting public should become more informed and more active...but I can't control that. My suggestion is to read and watch all the sites...run them through your own filter...and decide for yourself.

                      Speak up when you agree or disagree...after all...that's what goes on at places like mmfa and newsbusters every day...and it's mostly a good thing. 

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (April 27, 2008 10:17 am ET)
                           
                        Does the fact that a site has a large audience make it more relevant than a site with a small audience? Yep.

                        Not neccesarily.  MMFA is more relevant than a NB.

                        It makes sense that some liberals would take offense at the information provided in NB, etal...just as some conservatives take offense at the information reported in mmfa. Does that prove that one site is more accurate than another...nope.

                        Seriously, do you think NB is anywhere near as accurate as MMFA?

                        I will imply this...mmfa has become less relevant over time. Why? Because their traffic count has regressed to around their start-up traffic count. This slip in viewership for a political site...during one of the most hotly contested presidential races ever...may mean that their silly, inane, wordsmithing schtick has become stale.

                        I don't think so.  You have a lot of websites that reprint and link to articles from MMFA so a lot of people are getting information from this website without actually coming here.  Sites like rushlimbaugh.com and NB have few sites linking to them because the information provided there is not accurate or credible.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by roundhouse (April 27, 2008 10:29 am ET)
                           
                        "That's why advertisers pay more money to outlets with higher traffic counts...because they are more relevant in getting out their message."

                        Be more precise. What do you mean? Whose message? The website or the advertiser is more relevant in getting out their message?

                        If you're conflating traffic with a relevant message that's plain ignant. The National Enquirer has a bigger reaership than Newsbusters, does that mean NE is more relevant than NB?

                        Advertisers go where people will come into contact with their product ad, it has nothing to do with the content of the venue.

                        Just for conext for you size queens (thanks col.) more people believe the sun revolves around the earth than believe corporations are trustworthy and more people believe in UFO's than approve of President Bush's job performance.

                        "This slip in viewership for a political site...during one of the most hotly contested presidential races ever...may mean that their silly, inane, wordsmithing schtick has become stale."

                        There's also a greater choice of lib websites to spend time at, free market and all that. There's also the possiblity that more people are too actively involved with the campaigns and local politics to spend time on blogs. But we're both opining, our speculations amount to little more than wishful thinking.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by roundhouse (April 27, 2008 10:53 am ET)
                             
                          P.S.

                          I hope you feel so good about yourself for once again obscuring the point; the shameless pant pissing rightwing attack on another person's faith. Not to mention the utter condecension to Buddhism.

                          I mean seriously, you slack jawed p-rick, you consider demeaning a personal committment to her faith relevant because she used a holy leader's title? No wonder conservatism is crumbling under the weight of its own bombast. It's apologists like you, wes that can be thanked for all the reversals Republicans have been experiencing.

                          Think about it. It's taken just a few years to crack up the onservative base that took decades to solidify. And folks like you have stood by, barely waivering on the rightness of your leaders as they savaged the body politic with intimidation, violent rhetoric and sheer emotional manipulation.

                          But keep on keepin' on, wes. At this rate the only Republicans left will be Klansmen and milita men.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by Chromium (April 27, 2008 11:53 am ET)
                           

                        Wesley,

                        Thanks for your detailed, insightful comments.

                        This is a "progressive" website, and of course, people are encouraged to express their opinions in these comments.  I normally let them, without commenting back, even if I disagree with them.  They remain their opinions.

                        However, when someone makes an error, such as when MMFA and KO misstated O'Reilly's ratings or when MMFA moved the years 2003 and 2004 into the 20th century (corrected several months later) to make some global  warming claims, I do post.

                        I often also post when someone makes a statement for which an underlying assumption is wrong and can be proven.

                        That is what happened with the colonel:  He dissed Newsbusters readership, and I knew that MMFA has an even lower readership.  I gave the link to the data.

                        So the folks around here begrudgingly accept the data, then try to put words in my mouth and ask leading questions, which I have neither the time nor inclination to answer normally.  You responded, and I thank you for that.

                        To the Colonel:  You made comments about influence, for which I have little data.  The data I do have concerning Boehlert's column and MMFA's influence would start a thread far afield from this MMFA article, so I will not go there.

                        Regarding this particular Newsbusters article:  It is one of their weaker ones, and MMFA points out how the President also has used the same words.  Point taken.  

                        News for the group:  I NORMALLY SKIP OVER THE JUNKY AND REDUNDANT (ECHO) ARTICLES IN BOTH NEWSBUSTERS AND MMFA.  The quality level at both varies.

                        People have mentioned that they think MMFA is more "accurate" than NB:  This is just your opinion, which you are welcome to, unless you provide some data.  Apparently some of you try to mock this data citation by adding the word "queen":  Oh, you think name calling will get you somewhere?   

                        Finally, one other interesting thing brought up on Alexa:  Page views.  The average number of page views per MMFA visitor is fewer than 2.  That means that a great many of the visitors never leave the home page or the page they reached while linked from another website.  Remember, there are folks who go from page to page to page here, which gets added to the average of page views. 

                         

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by loonz (April 27, 2008 1:22 pm ET)
                             

                          People have mentioned that they think MMFA is more "accurate" than NB: This is just your opinion, which you are welcome to, unless you provide some data.

                          Newsbusters uses their own opinions, the opinions of others or ad hominem attacks to combat facts.  They're not a credible operation.

                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (April 27, 2008 2:27 pm ET)
                             

                          That is what happened with the colonel:  He dissed Newsbusters readership, and I knew that MMFA has an even lower readership.(Missourishowme)

                          MoSho, I won't mention it again, but I think you're still completely confused. I never dissed NB for the number of visitors the site has, I was contesting Tommy's point that the site is not significant enough to mention. If NB has more traffic than this site, you're only reinforcing my point.

                           the term "Ratings Queen" is one I used to use here toward those who rebutted inaccuracies or misinformation from sources by pointing out their popularity. It's meaningless to me. American Idol and McDonalds are very popular.

                          I'll admit my writing isn't always that clear when posting comments here in a hurry, and I should probably proofread more. In my first post, I should have put the sentences about Rush & NB's audience in quotes, or made it more clear I was expressing the opinion of those who downplay their influence.

                          I apologize to anyone who understood it from the start for taking up all of this space with redundancies.

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                          • Author by therick (April 27, 2008 5:43 pm ET)
                               

                            "I apologize to anyone who understood it from the start for taking up all of this space with redundancies."--ColSanders

                            Thank you, I was starting to think you didn't care about those of us who have a brain or are elite.    :-)

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                        • Author by solon (April 28, 2008 6:14 pm ET)
                             
                          WOW. You are entirely clueless arent you. The Colonel in no way implied that NB was a crap site BECAUSE of their number of hits. I guess its true there are none so blind as those stubbornly comitted to NOT seeing. The fact you think you made any point at all after all the posts explaining why you didnt is just sad.
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              • Author by solon (April 27, 2008 5:36 pm ET)
                   

                Yeah and Spongebob gets more viewers than ANY CSpan this means WHAT again? I hear Hitlers speeches were very popular also. Did you REALLY think that made any relevant point whatsoever. I bet Jenna Jameson sites get more traffic too. Your game is weak.

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                • Author by Chromium (April 27, 2008 6:42 pm ET)
                     

                  One last time:

                  Col. said: "Newsbusters is crap (opinion), and that a relatively small number of people read it (based on what data?)"

                  My reply:  Well, Newsbusters has more readers than this site!

                  According to Alexa.com, for the past 3 months, Newsbusters has had 41% more "global internet users" than Media Matters.

                  So, if in your view, a "relatively small number of people" read Newsbusters, how do you want to characterize the readership of Media Matters?

                  ==================================================

                  While there was a post that cited criticism of Alexa (fine!), there has been no response from any progressive as to the even lower readership of MMFA, nor any citation of contrary data.

                  There have been accusations that I cannot read, apparently since I did not comment about other things people have written:  Get used to it!  I feel no need respond to everything that is written here.  Some of you want to talk about the relevance of ratings, I SIMPLY POINTED OUT THAT IF "A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE" READ NEWSBUSTERS (what Colonel said) I PUCKISHLY WANT TO HEAR HIM DESCRIBE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO READ MMFA.  (I'll help:  minuscule, tiny, even smaller...)

                  Good night, and sleep well! 

                   

                   

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                  • Author by solon (April 27, 2008 8:19 pm ET)
                       
                    Man, why do we have to take you conservatives by the hand and walk you through every obvious point that any reasonably bright ten year old could easily understand. IF you had any ability whatsoever to understand what was written you would see that we KNOW what you were trying to do and pointing out IT HAD NO RELEVANCE. What you posted would only BE relevant IF he had said or IMPLIED that Newsbusters was crap BECAUSE it had a 'relatively small number of readers'. His point was actually the opposite despite the relatively small number of readers it IS relevant because it is often repeated by people who dont know what they are talking about and are misled by it. Since it is crap REGARDLESS of how many people read it YOU HAVE NO POINT. Since the Colonels point was it was relevant BECAUSE its crap and VIRAL. How many readers someone would consider relatively few or how many compared to MMFA just doesnt enter into the equation.
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                    • Author by Chromium (April 28, 2008 11:07 am ET)
                         

                      Colonel's words, highlighted different ways:

                      Newsbusters is crap, and that a relatively small number of people read it

                      My comments were in reply to the bolded part, not the italicized/underlined part.

                      My comments were about the part for which there is numerical data to support or refute it; the italicized/underlined part is one person's opinion.

                      Solon, paraphrased:  The bolded part is irrelevant and should not be commented upon (along with too many insults to bother counting)

                      I chose to comment on the bolded part and not on the italicized/underlined part, which many here consider to be the main point.  You can't always get what you want.

                      Have a nice week! 

                       

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                      • Author by Chromium (April 28, 2008 11:09 am ET)
                           
                        On Firefox, the underlines do not show up in my post above, but those parts are italicized.
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                        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (April 28, 2008 11:34 am ET)
                             

                          And you have shown that you do not understand the words "relatively small."

                          So NB has more readers than MMfA. So what? Both numbers are RELATIVELY SMALL.

                          As I have stated elsewhere, popularity of opinion is not related to accuracy of opinion. 

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                          • Author by Chromium (April 28, 2008 5:45 pm ET)
                               

                            Easy:  So NB has more readers than MMfA. So what?

                            It makes me happy, and I like being happy! 

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                            • Author by solon (April 28, 2008 6:16 pm ET)
                                 
                              And apparantly it makes you happy to be misled and played for a fool. Good luck with that.
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                      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (April 28, 2008 12:22 pm ET)
                           

                        Mo Sho, while i appreciate you and Wesley supporting me in disagreeing with Tommy's point that Newsbusters isn't significant enough to be mentioned here, your help would be more credible if you actually understood that you weren't disagreeing with me.

                        I cannot believe how difficult this is for you.

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                        • Author by Chromium (April 28, 2008 5:35 pm ET)
                             

                          Colonel said:

                          i appreciate you and Wesley supporting me in disagreeing with Tommy's point that Newsbusters isn't significant enough to be mentioned here

                          Sorry to disappoint you:  I made no comment as to what MMFA should do.  Back months and months ago, when I noted that the MMFA praises of Keith Olbermann did not fit the parameters listed under the "ABOUT US" link on every MMFA page, I was roundly criticized, labeled as unworthy to suggest what MMFA should and should not write about, especially being a free site.  I tend to restrict my comments to inaccuracies and statements not consistent with available data.

                          Again (and again and again), I only commented on your claim about Newsbusters' readership numbers and compared them to those of MMFA.

                           

                           

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                          • Author by solon (April 28, 2008 6:10 pm ET)
                               

                            Yes that is what you did. There was no rational reason to. Nor was it in any way a meaningful comparison. No one said that the number of traffic NB gets means it is of more or less quality because of that traffic, in fact the Colonels point was actually the OPPOSITE of that, so your inabilty to GET the point, your silly thinking you had some gotcha BECAUSE you misunderstood the point and your meaningless non sequitur has been noted. Along with the fact your reading comprehension is pitiful. You get some points for fooling Wesely into thinking you had a point but that isnt very hard so not many points.

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                      • Author by solon (April 28, 2008 6:02 pm ET)
                           
                        Relatively small is a subjective judgement. However the QUALITY of the two sites is NOT in any way addressed by the number of visits even IF, and that hasnt been established Alexa is accurate NB gets more traffic. Since the Colonel NEVER said that NB was crap BECAUSE it got a small number of  visits rather that its relevance should not be underestimated REGARDLESS of the small number of hits, your pretense that there would be a reasonable comparison TO MMFA which MAY get even less hits, implying that means they are LESS relevant is logic free. MMFA is more relevant whether or not it gets less hits because it isnt CRAP. The relevance of NB is debateable but its CRAP no matter how many hits it gets. Is this really too complicated for you?
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            • Author by pithaughn (April 28, 2008 5:33 pm ET)
                 
              Bingo, that is why I read almost every post that MMFA puts up. Most times before the week is over I will the garbage spewd as a cold hard fact. Already there are several people in my area who will swear Obama is a Muslim, which is the same as saying he is a terrorist in their feeble minds.
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          • Author by mikerhyner8202 (April 26, 2008 5:28 am ET)
               
            As is the majority of this sites postings.
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          • Author by wzwriter (April 28, 2008 12:13 pm ET)
               

            Most of what is on Newsbusters is crap.

            Agreed.  But since right-wing morons like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Mark Levin cite NewsBusters as a source all the time, it's important to remind people what an unreliable source they truly are.

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        • Author by tharri874 (April 25, 2008 10:48 pm ET)
             

          Newsbusters is certainly worthy of criticism. Their columnists often appear on cable news shows, where Newsbusters is treated as a legitimate news media watchdog group.

          <>Also, I made a quick search for newsbusters on Google news and came up with 511 results.

          <>They may be garbage, but a whole lot of people seem to be buying the garbage.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by roundhouse (April 25, 2008 6:41 pm ET)
           
        I can agree with that. I'd rather be trashing Limbaugh today for inciting riots.
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        • Author by Billy Hill (April 25, 2008 6:57 pm ET)
             
          Speaking of riots what the heck is with those people in Chicago? 36 shot or stabed and 9 killed last weekend alone? I thought I was reading about Baghdad. One would think that Obama would have cleaned up the place a little while he had some pull there......... I think "the war on drugs and crime" in Chicago is lost and we should take Harry Reids position and just "pull out and go home" as that war is lost to. OR, maybe Obama would suggest a "surge". Sure glad I live about 2000 miles from that mess.....if I were Obama I would have jumped at the first chance to get out of there to.
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          • Author by princeofwheels (April 25, 2008 7:04 pm ET)
               

            Bill Hill quite the shill gets his thrill by being run of the mill.

            I thought it was Baghdad also.                                                          But it happens everyday over there. 140,000 American troops, 60,000 Iraqi troops and thousands of Iraqi policemen and mercenaries. That surge really is working.

            P.S. And our troops are dying. Go Bush....

                W A R.....We Are Republicans 

             

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            • Author by Billy Hill (April 25, 2008 7:18 pm ET)
                 
              P.O.W. your responce gets a C-....I am running a test as my comment is just the thing that the GOP will use in the general. This hi-tec modern day lynching is a coming.....hang on!
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              • Author by princeofwheels (April 25, 2008 8:57 pm ET)
                   

                Hi-tech lynching will lose this next election. People are tired of it.  But I can't see the Republans doing anything but trying to "lynch" (nice code word but I'm not biting).    How else can they win? By discussing issues...that would be funny and a tactic which they haven't tried in 35 years.                                                                                             And thank you for the good grade. If only you were my teacher rather than Sister Mary Goodie Gunda.

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              • Author by ConstanceRifleII (April 25, 2008 10:31 pm ET)
                   
                Billy, you obviously are a new poster, so I will enlighten you...Prince is a regular and takes your comments in stride.  Your cover with a "well this is what the Republicans are going to throw at you" argument but it doesn't fly.  If you want to have a productive conversation, speak the truth as you know it, and don't be afraid of rebuttal.
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                • Author by ConstanceRifleII (April 25, 2008 10:32 pm ET)
                     

                  *argument does not fly*

                  vodka, you will be the death of me. 

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Billy Hill (April 26, 2008 7:59 pm ET)
                     
                  Actually no, a lurker yes, it gets boring reading the same 6-8 posters who LIVE here most of the day, but hey, what ever blows your skirt up....carry on soldiers.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (April 28, 2008 11:37 am ET)
                       
                    And in your case, it's even more boring reading a lurker who posts.
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          • Author by roundhouse (April 25, 2008 7:16 pm ET)
               
            I'm guessing you're a big fan of newsbusters. That would explain your ability to fabricate smears from thin air.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by jawill11 (April 25, 2008 8:12 pm ET)
               
            Wow, is the Police Chief in Chicago named Obama too?  What a coincidence.  I assume that's who you're referring to with your completely unrelated comment about crime in Chicago.  
            Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (April 25, 2008 10:27 pm ET)
               
            From his job as a state Senator? Ok, you did your hivemind dittobot duty and regurgitated the incredibly dumb talking point you were programmed with you can let the adults talk now.
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          • Author by deeznuts (April 25, 2008 11:06 pm ET)
               

            Nice to see someone received their Limbaugh Talking Points (patent pending) this morning.

            Tell me, do you get them via email or RSS?
            Or does Limbaugh deliver them personally on his way to have sex with minors in faraway lands?

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          • Author by tjwdraws9354 (April 26, 2008 11:28 am ET)
               
            LOL. Of course! Last weekend's violence is Obama's fault! LOL, LOL. Wow. Actually there was an article in the Tribune suggesting that much violence, especially gang violence, has to do with disputes over women. Looks like those damned straights are ruining society - AGAIN! Oh Rev. Hagee please send GOD to wipe out those violent heteros! ;-)
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          • Author by prof (April 26, 2008 5:42 pm ET)
               
            What absolutely inane comment that has nothing to do with this thread.
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      • Author by pete592 (April 25, 2008 6:47 pm ET)
           
        I agree. Newsbusters is not a news organization, but an organization that busts the news into pieces and glues it back together to make something unrecognizable.
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        • Author by jawill11 (April 25, 2008 8:14 pm ET)
             

          They're like that Simpsons episode where the 20/20 style show clipped together Homer's interview to make it sound like he molested the babysitter. 

          For those of you who didn't see it, he really was just peeling a gummy Venus De Milo off of her butt when she sat on it in the car.

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          • Author by ConstanceRifleII (April 25, 2008 10:33 pm ET)
               
            Great episode
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            • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (April 26, 2008 2:48 am ET)
                 

              Especially after Homer has his name cleared by the voeyuristic video of Groundskeeper Willie, then excitedly settles in to watch the next episode of the tabloid show. The same one he was smeared by, with their report on the peeping Tom Scotsman.

              Is Homer the MSM target demographic?

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              • Author by jawill11 (April 26, 2008 10:47 am ET)
                   

                Rowdy Roddy Peeper!

                I liked the huge list of corrections they ran at lightning speed at the end of the show.  The more I think about it, the more that episode perfectly sums up the MSM today. 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Disputed Zone (April 26, 2008 5:50 pm ET)
                     

                  Kent Brockman:  "This is hour fifty-seven of our live, round-the-clock coverage outside the Simpson estate. Remember by the way, to tune in tonight at eight o'clock for highlights of today's vigil, including when the garbageman came and when Marge Simpson put the cat out - possibly because it was harrassed, we don't know. Of course there's no way to see into the Simpson home without some kind of heat sensitive infrared camera. So let's turn it on.

                  ...

                  Now, here are some results from our phone-in poll. Ninety-five percent of the people believe Homer Simpson is guilty. Now, of course, this is just a television poll, which is not legally binding - unless Proposition 304 passes, and we all pray it will."

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    • Author by foghornleghorn (April 25, 2008 6:23 pm ET)
         
      At least Pelosi didn't call Mr. Lama "awesome".
      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (April 25, 2008 7:10 pm ET)
         
      A species of shrub.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by princeofwheels (April 25, 2008 8:53 pm ET)
           
        Fertilzied with manure....so the term s#it for brains is in the realm of explanation.
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    • Author by theonecalledjonesy8682 (April 25, 2008 8:18 pm ET)
         

      Don’t let the Regime fool you.  The Dalai Lama is little more than a construct of the murderous bourgeois dogs like George W. Bush, Richard Gere, and Kobe Bryant.  He has no place in our struggle for improvement, as these pigs would have you believe.  Stop being blinded by the foolish rhetoric of the inconsequential. 

       

      the jonesyreport.blogspot.com 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (April 28, 2008 11:41 am ET)
           

        Stop being blinded by the foolish rhetoric of the inconsequential.

        Don't worry, no one will ever be blinded by the likes of you, so why not just stop posting your foolish ignorant rhetoric now?

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    • Author by donaldmaddog5642 (April 26, 2008 2:12 am ET)
         
      The official name of the Dalai Lama is "His Holiness, the Fourteenth Dalai Lama of Tibet". He is also addressed, in Tibet, as "Precious Victor" or "Wish Fulfilling Gem". Nancy could have just called him "Gyatso". But, who the f**k cares? Do we really want to list all the names we have for George W. Bush? I didn't think so. He likes to be addressed as "Mein Fuhrer" by members of his cabinet.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by donaldmaddog5642 (April 26, 2008 2:28 am ET)
         
      Check this out, Yall.

      http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30371
      Report Abuse
    • Author by magnolialover (April 26, 2008 9:19 am ET)
         
      Oh no! A political leader being respectful of the leader of a world religion!! She must be stoned to death, IMMEDIATELY!!

      YAY GOD!

      This is so ridiculous. Only Newbusters could make something up like this to try and attempt to connect Pelosi to her "un-Christianess" by calling the Dalai Lama by his, well, title and name.

      I'm sure it's just because she's a San Francisco liberal and all...
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    • Author by pemaonthebeach2688 (April 26, 2008 9:26 am ET)
         

      Nancy Pelosi is being hasseled becsause she isnt being a good enough Christian?  For calling the Dala Lama by his offical title?

      America gets scarier every day...

      Report Abuse
    • Author by tjwdraws9354 (April 26, 2008 11:40 am ET)
         

      "Tibetan Buddhists worship a multiplicity of gods"?? Incorrect. Heck, Buddha is not even a "God". Me thinks ol' Timmy Graham is thinking [SIC] of Hinduism.

       

      Report Abuse
    • Author by StlInquirer (April 26, 2008 6:30 pm ET)
         
      One might note that last year Republican Minority Leader in the House called him "His Holiness" too, transcript here.

      Oh, and the Senate Minority Leader too, recorded here.

      Sheesh.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by sparkypat427 (April 27, 2008 12:09 pm ET)
         

      As a buddhist, who will not engage with the OFF TOPIC comments posted here, IMHO she was being respectful to a man who, to many who are NOT christian, but Buddhist is "his Holiness" as the Pope is to many Catholics. I myself refer to the Pope, The Archbishop of Canterbury, and many other spiritual Leaders as "Your Holiness" in respect of thier standing as a spiritual leader. The Dalai Lama is a good friend of Mrs. Pelosi and many others in congress for his peaceful and compassionate work for ALL people who endure prosecution and human rights violations around the world. His example could be well used by the people who berate him(as on this site) who consider themselves Christians. Buddhist have a deep respect for all religions (by the way, we do not worship "many Gods" That's Hinduism) and I personally am offended by some of these remarks because you are not practicing what you preach. Jesus was a good and rightious man who beleived in loving and accepting all beings. Judge not, lest thee be Judged. Sincerely Patrick M. Langone

      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (April 27, 2008 11:06 pm ET)
         
      Yup.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by webprogrammer (April 28, 2008 12:25 am ET)
         

      I have a simple analogy for those who would equate relevance with page views. Suppose you put twenty people in a room. Nineteen of them are penniless paupers, and one is a wealthy investment manager. The nineteen paupers read NewsBusters, and the investment manager reads the Financial Times. Objectively, in that room, which source is more relevant, the one with nineteen readers who accomplish nothing, or the one with only a single reader who gets information he can actually use?

      I really think "relevance" isn't the word you're looking for. "Popularity" is the word that describes what you're referring to, and just like in the analogy above, popularity has nothing to do with relevance. The popularity of NewsBusters is relevant only because it's a modestly successful part of a propaganda machine.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (April 28, 2008 8:44 am ET)
         

      Webprogrammer

      I would disagree with your premise. What was the goal of the 20 people in the room? That would define the relevance of their readings.

      If the goal was financial news...then reading a political site would not be relevant. If the goal was political news...then reading the financial site would not be relevant. It's like comparing Sponge Bob Square Pants with American idol...meaningless for relevance...but entirely appropriate when discussing popularity.

      The premise should compare financial sites with financial sites...or political sites with political sites. 

      Lets assume their goal was political info. 19 read "Joe's Political Hotwire" and 1 read "Jim's Campaign News"...it would be clear that Joe's website would be more relevant...not necessarily more accurate...but more relevant...because it reached more people seeking political news.

      It's kind of like the old saw, "if a tree fell in a forest..."

      The arguments of popularity, accuracy, and relevance are three different scenarios. In this particular case...if mmfa was the most accurate and meaningful political website on the internet...yet few read it...they would have little relevance in the political landscape...that is the importance of traffic...when defining relevance. 

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      • Author by juliajayne (April 28, 2008 10:13 am ET)
           
        Depends on what you mean by relevance, Wes. Popularity does not equal relevance. Relevant to whom may be another question. MMFA is relevant to people who seek a source of accurate information about rightwing misinformation. NB is relevant to people who like their news fed to them with a partisan bias (like Fox News). Is NB relevant to people who value honesty? Not likely. Is it popular with people who can't think for themselves and seek out this type of so called news? Yes. Does it prove anything beyond the fact that there are a bunch of non thinkers out there who need propaganda as news? Maybe. But it's sad. And yes, you may call me an elite ranter. Who cares.
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        • Author by mary59 (April 28, 2008 12:40 pm ET)
             
          It's evident that Media Matters is making an impact no matter how many hits it gets. The righty talkers have been affected; the mainstream press is starting to get pressure to stop spouting right wing talking points (It hasn't stopped them but they are noticing, and Chris Matthews actually had to sort of apologize for sexist remarks)

          It's part of a mechanism to push back against the propoganda stream of the right.
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