MSNBC hosted Obama smear-purveyor to discuss the impact of Obama's connections to Wright in North Carolina
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SUMMARY: MSNBC's Tamron Hall held a discussion with North Carolina radio host Jeff Katz about the effect Sen. Barack Obama former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is having on North Carolina voters without disclosing that Katz's website prominently encourages visitors to "Help the N.C. GOP keep their ad on the air," referring to an ad that attacks Obama for his connections to Wright, and contains the false claim that Obama "won't pledge to the flag."
The April 28 edition of MSNBC Live included a discussion with North Carolina radio host Jeff Katz on Sen. Barack Obama and the effect Obama's former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is having on North Carolina voters, without noting that Katz's website prominently encourages visitors to donate to "Help the N.C. GOP keep their ad on the air," referring to an ad that attacks Obama for his connections to Wright. Nor did anchor Tamron Hall note that Katz's website also smears Obama by falsely claiming he "won't pledge to the flag."
Hall introduced Katz as "radio talk-show host for WBT AM-FM in Charlotte." Her first question was: "Are you hearing that this Wright controversy will hurt him in that state?" Katz responded: "Well, I tell you, the Jeremiah Wright comments in the past have certainly had some impact. Obama still has that double-digit lead here in North Carolina for the Democrat [sic] primary but the Democrats on the eastern side of the state have a tendency to be much more conservative. They're also known as the old 'Jessecrats,' from supporting Jesse Helms." Katz continued: "And so, yeah, I think some of the Jeremiah Wright comments may take a couple of points away from him."
The first in a series of hyperlinks featured on the homepage of Katz's WBT radio show is titled "Help the N.C. GOP keep their ad on the air," and asserts, "Democrats, and even some Republicans, are trying to get NC GOP Chairman Linda Daves to pull their ad which says Obama is too controversial for North Carolina. Donate now to help them keep it on the air." The title links to a page on the North Carolina GOP website that features an embedded video of the ad and a link to a page that facilitates donations to the North Carolina GOP.
Another link on the homepage is titled "Obama won't pledge to the flag." That link directs visitors to a photo with the caption, "Here is Obama refusing to put his hand over his heart while saying the pledge. And this man could be our next President?" However, as Media Matters for America has noted, the photo to which Katz is referring -- which is being spread in a chain email -- appeared in Time magazine with a caption indicating it was taken during the national anthem, not the Pledge of Allegiance.
Washington Post "fact checker" Michael Dobbs noted in a November 2, 2007, item about the email: "Contrary to the e-mails attacking Obama for disrespecting the flag, the candidates were not reciting the pledge of allegiance. They were standing for the national anthem." Dobbs also wrote: "Asked whether Obama normally puts his hand over his heart while listening to the national anthem, Obama spokesman Bill Burton replied by e-mail: 'Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. In no way was he making any sort of statement, and any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous.' " Indeed, other photos show Obama with his hand over his heart during the national anthem.
From the 10 a.m. ET hour of the April 28 edition of MSNBC Live:
HALL: Senator [Hillary] Clinton is campaigning with her daughter, Chelsea, in the Tar Heel State today. Jeff Katz is radio talk-show host for WBT AM-FM in Charlotte. He joins me now on the phone. So, Jeff, we just heard from Reverend Wright, the former pastor for Barack Obama. We know in that state -- in your state -- Barack Obama has a commanding lead over Senator Clinton in the latest polls. Are you hearing that this Wright controversy will hurt him in that state?
KATZ: Well, I tell you, the Jeremiah Wright comments in the past have certainly had some impact. Obama still has that double-digit lead here in North Carolina for the Democrat primary, but the Democrats on the eastern side of the state have a tendency to be much more conservative. They're also known as the old "Jessecrats," from supporting Jesse Helms. And so, yeah, I think some of the Jeremiah Wright comments may take a couple of points away from him.
HALL: Now, Senator Obama outraised Senator Clinton by nearly 3-to-1 last month. Of course, we know about the big $10 million boost that Senator Clinton was able to get after she took Pennsylvania. What does she need to do? We heard this economic message about gas prices in that ad we just played, but what does she need to do or what are you hearing she needs to do to win that state, if possible?
KATZ: Well, I think it's going to be difficult for her to win it. That's, number one, the general assessment. But the fact of the matter is that Hillary Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, Bill Clinton have spent a lot more time here in North Carolina than either Barack Obama or anybody from his campaign. And I think one of the things that's happening here is that a lot of people are very, very disappointed that Barack Obama put the brakes on a debate with Hillary Clinton here in North Carolina.
HALL: Hmm. Well, that's -- yeah, that's interesting. He said that he feels that they don't need to debate anymore. Well, Jeff, we're out of time. I'd love to talk to you more, but thank you for your insight on what's happening in North Carolina. We appreciate it.
KATZ: You bet. My pleasure.
They have had enough debates. If you haven't seen one of the 21 debates they have had on national tv yet, you aren't likely to watch another or be upset that another isn't happening.
I've had enough of the Bushes, the Clintons, Mc Bush and Jeremiah Wrght. While we are distracted by the Jerry Springer Show they call network news, the whole country is going down in flames
They have NEVER had a real debate. Those mickey-mouse question/answer sessions are not debates.
A real debate format would be a great civics lesson. It's too bad that Obama is afraid of debating Hillary Clinton in a formal debate setting.
What other reason could there be?
How about a right-wing, pro-corporate media that is hoping for a Clinton/McCain candidacy and therefore more endless flag pin, patriotism, Jeremiah Wright etc. questions that have NOTHING to do with the issues that are important.
By the way, I thought is name was Hussein Obama, not Jeremiah. Is this another flip-flop?
Well, Wright must be the one who wants the Clinton/McCain race to happen. He is doing everything he can to ruin Obama's chances.
I thought Obama was such good freinds with Wright that they shared first names. Oops, I guess Obama couldn't figure out what kind of person Wright is so quickly. It took 20+ years of attending his church/baptisms/marriage for Obama to fall in love with the guy, but only one campaign to distance himself from the distraction. Ah ah ha ha
"Your emotionally charged arguments based on nothing more than conjecture are not persuading anyone to see things your way."
What was it that persuaded Obama to ditch any and every association with Wright? It certainly wasn't me! Must have been quite a "conjecture" if even Obama is falling for it!
You people sure got awful quiet all of a sudden. What happened? Did you actually catch some of the 'newest' news?
Whining hypocrits!!!
He is doing everything he can to ruin Obama's chances...
By the time the conventions roll around, Rev. Wright will be a distant memory. And the Iraq occupation, high gas prices, and the recession will still be around (because our Fearless Leader, ironically, cannot lead). You think 2006 was bad - wait till November.
Obama said he doesn't want to debate her. What other reason could there be?
1. He considers the 20+ previous debates to be enough.
2. He has a full schedule.
3. He has other opinions on how his time could be better spent.
4. He's under no obligation to cater to his opponent's whims.
5. He has a strategic plan that he's sticking to.
I'm sure there are many other reasons that could apply. It's idiotic to say that cowardice is the only possible reason.
" Do you ever base your opinions on fact?"
I base them on my opinion, just like YOU do. Show some FACTS that back up YOUR statements.
Car were you aware that Obama was the first to call for a debate in North Carolina? Of course not.
On Call reminds readers that Barack Obama agreed March 13 to a North Carolina face-off. The campaign's release:
OBAMA ACCEPTS INVITATIONS TO DEBATE IN PENNSYLVANIA AND NORTH CAROLINACHICAGO -- Today, Barack Obama accepted invitations to nationally televised debates with Senator Hillary Clinton in Philadelphia on April 16th and in North Carolina on April 19th.
The Pennsylvania debate will be hosted by ABC News and held in the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia on Wednesday, April 16. The North Carolina debate, hosted by CBS News at a location to be determined, will be hosted by CBS and moderated by Katie Couric and Bob Schieffer.
“Senator Obama welcomes the opportunity to openly debate Senator Clinton on the issues important to Americans in North Carolina and Pennsylvania and hopes that she will accept these invitations as well,” said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.
Where are McCain and Clinton's pastors for God's sake? Did either of the two senators ever go to church? What did their pastors say in the past 20 years? This is getting way beyond ridiculous.
And why in the same God's sake are not McCain and Clinton coming out more strongly against this nonsense?
Maverick my foot. The Old Man will do (or not do) to win and so will Clinton.
What I see is sophisticated racism (at it's crudest) and the other two candidates just keeping their mouths shut so they can win, and run the country to the ground (as if the current President did not give it his best shot).
Where are McCain and Clinton's pastors for God's sake?
One thing I know for sure about Clinton's minister is that he likes and respects Wright and believes he's getting a raw deal.
Well, it's a good thing Clinton's pastor likes him. It is certainly a fact Obama is starting to hate him. Just months after "disowning" Wright for his racist statements (you know they were racist because Obama gave a stirring speach on race relations just afterward), Wright is now a "distraction" for continueing his racist/hateful rhetoric. At the beginning of all of this I said that Obama had a judgmental problem by staying in a church run by Wright (the racist). Now, Obama is regretting even knowing the guy because he is ruining Obama's chances of becoming president. Suddenly, while running for president, Obama realizes what kind of person Wright is. When he couldn't figure it out after 20+ years of knowing the guy?? There's the 'judgmental' issue I have a problem with. I don't care that Wright is a racist, there are lots of them in this country, but I don't like that Obama couldn't figure that out in over 20 years. While it seems obvious he can figure it out in just a few months of running for president. So much so that he disowned him and now he's a distraction. http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/920525,CST-NWS-sweet29.article , http://www.mercurynews.com/politics/ci_9092357
After hearing what Wright said over the weekend, all I can say to those who say I was wrong about the racist Wright is; Ah ha hahh haah ha ha, Hypocrits! Let's see how far Obama goes when he is such 'freinds' with Wright. Maybe Wright will teach Obama how to say cah and eaxk properly. Ah haha hah ha ah hah aha ha
Just months after "disowning" Wright for his racist statements ... So much so that he disowned him and now he's a distraction
You really aren't very good with facts, are you? After spending the weekend getting one fact after another about Wright wrong, you come back with some new errors/lies. Here's what Obama said in his speech:
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother
It looks to me as though Obama very specifically stated that he was not disowning Wright. The fact is that Obama, and Wright's other congregants, know Wright much better than does any paranoid lie-spewing right-wing nutcase out there calling him a racist when they can't point out one single racist thing Wright has said. They know that those few seconds of video culled from many hundreds of hours of video available of Wright are not representative of his normal sermons.
You spent last weekend failing at producing a racist statement from Wright. You still haven't succeeded.
"Here's what Obama said in his speech: "blah blah blah.." It looks to me as though Obama very specifically stated that he was not disowning Wright."
Hey bill, have you missed everything that happened Sunday, Monday, Today??? Try posting some news that's current, like I did. Obama is finally ditching that racist for the racist he is. You better pray it isn't too late!
In 1992 that age group identified as Republican 47% to 46% Democratic. In 2008 it's 58% Democratic to 33% Republican.
Basically what this tells me is that people don't care what desperate cons like you say. The game is over. Reasonable folks have rejected the rightwing bs.
Slink away phil while you still have some dignity.
I'd say Obama was hounded by the corporate media and that I wish he would have leaned harder into the ultra-conservative smear thugs who are piss their pants scared of Reverend Wright's liberal theology. I ain't nothin' but a hayseed hick from Ohio but Wright makes sense to me when he talks about the mischief inherent in the prosperity gospel.
Because despite the fact that Wright upsets your delicate assumptions of how the world ought to look, it doesn't make him wrong in his criticisms of the cruel nature of some of America's military escapades, like the occupation of Iraq, for example.
What I want to make clear to you is that you can keep posting your nonsense but you'll get nothing but pity from me. I know what you are. I know you have no empathy or responsibility and you can barely be blamed for your transgressions.
"I'd say Obama was hounded by the corporate media and that I wish he would have leaned harder into the ultra-conservative smear thugs who are piss their pants scared of Reverend Wright's liberal theology."
Of course we're scared of his theology! The LAST thing this nation needs is the rise of another fringe group believing the same ideals as the KKK or Aryan Nation. My God, get over yourself! Wright is a racist and YOU are supporting him simply because conservatives don't like racism.
"I ain't nothin' but a hayseed hick from Ohio but Wright makes sense to me when he talks about the mischief inherent in the prosperity gospel."
Well, that certainly explains a lot, mr seed. I'm sure Wright can mix in a little good just to throw off his detractors. Even the devil made some sense during his tempting of Christ. But, Christ saw through those arguements and sent him away. If you can't see that the underlying message brought by Wright is racist then you ARE simply a "hayseed hick from ohio".
"you'll get nothing but pity from me. I know what you are. I know you have no empathy or responsibility and you can barely be blamed for your transgressions."
I get more than I expected from you, then. What transgressions are you talking about. And, is this a judgment you are making? I thought you people were all against making judgments of others??
Don't be mad at me because Wright is a racist. There are lots of them. I'll bet there are a couple in your home town of hayseed ohio.
"I thought you people were all against making judgments of others??"
That's an idiotic assumption. It's no wonder you get everything so wrong. Most liberals avoid the holier than thou judgments you cons are so fond of laying at our feet but we have no compunction judging a lack of principles and morality.
"If you can't see that the underlying message brought by Wright is racist then you ARE simply a "hayseed hick from ohio".
I thought you people were the people of common folks, no recriminations and no condescension to folks who aren't like you or disagree with you. Phony. It's good to see your true nature, though.
Well, it's a good thing Clinton's pastor likes him. It is certainly a fact Obama is starting to hate him.
Yet another lie. That statement is a fact as much as the statement that you know what you are talking about is a fact.
Neither has any basis in experiential reality.
"Yet another lie. That statement is a fact as much as the statement that you know what you are talking about is a fact."
Apparently, like bill, you get ALL your news from mmfa. Read the friken paper, listen to the friken radio, watch the friken tv. Obama is finally tired of that stupid racist. Try catching some CURRENT news!!!
"What I see is sophisticated racism (at it's crudest) and the other two candidates just keeping their mouths shut so they can win, and run the country to the ground (as if the current President did not give it his best shot)."
You obviously did not see the NAACP speech. CNN showed it twice, at least.
Wright came off very badly-- pseudo-learned explanations that sounded like a schizophrenic, him mincing around, making stupid 'white folk' vocal imitations, saying uninformed nutty things about "European music," castigating ADD diagnoses, the works.
And that was all in three minutes. The guy's a kook. How anybody could sit in a pew and listen to that crap for years is beyond belief.
You know who he sounded like? Lyndon La Rouche. The same kind of psychosis.
I didn't see the NAACP speech, but I caught some of him at the Washington Press Clud (I think that's what it's called) this morning before I left for work.
I thought he came of pretty well.Actually, very reasonable compared to his screeching detractors. I don't mean that anything is going to affect the opinions of the wing nuts who are locked onto "God Damn America" to the point that they can't even begin to get his point,but for the more reasonable voters in the center, he may have been able to counter some of the media spin .
Apparently, I'm out of touch with mainstream America, as I'm a middle-aged suburban white guy who isn't terrified or offended by Wright. According to most of the talking heads, Wright is sabotaging Obama's campaign, and many of my peers seem to think the same thing.
That's a strange thing isn't it? Rev. Wright goes on national TV (if you consider Bill Moyers national TV) and tries to set the record straight (I thought he did, even though he didn't have to with the adults of us in the room) concerning his so called racist-anti-American-angry black man categorization and , somehow, that's supposed to hurt Obama? I don't get it. Obama says he doesn't agree with some of his more "radical" views. John Hagee says god punishes all of certain parts of the country because of the lifestyle of a few of them and McCain actively seeks and is appreciative of his support, and others who share his views and we get no response from the Media.
Sure he said that Obama is just doing what a politician has to do, but how is that a diss? Obama is a politician. He's running for the highest office in the land, I would hope by now he knows how to politic.
"I don't get it."
That's not surprising...you're a liberal. The liberal can only understand so much then gets stuck repeating it over and over again. To the liberal when a conservative candidate gets endorsed by a homophobe that is much worse than when a liberal candidate gets taught and inspired by a racist. Why do you think the KKK has one of it's ex-leaders leading the democratic party? The liberal thinks it's ok to have a leader inspired by racism, but not one inspired by morallity.
"Apparently, I'm out of touch with mainstream America, as I'm a middle-aged suburban white guy who isn't terrified or offended by Wright."
Apparently so! Even Obama is terrified and offended by Wright. Have you read the news lately? That's what happens when you only pay attention to one news source (mmfa), especially when all you get from that one news source is propoganda and mis-information. But, here, you can still read that Obama is the favorite nephew of a simple preacher.
You know who he sounded like? Lyndon La Rouche. The same kind of psychosis.
If we want to see psychoses, all wee need to do is read your posts.
Who's running for President, Rev. Wright or Obama?
No, I did not see the speech nor do I think, as a voter considering Senator Obama for President, I need to.I am not a Christian so I do not know the whole deal with what goes on inside any church, and I do not care.
I do believe that statements made inside a church/synagogue/temple etc. to voluntary attendees, parts of which, if selectively quoted and played endlessly on public airwaves can distract from the issues at hand.
I think this would be as much of a "legitimate story" as Rev. Wright. Let's look into the theological fantasies of the people who have the Republican Party's gonads in a lockbox. I think we have a right to know. Let's poll members of the Bush administration and fine out how many of them buy into the fairy tales outlined in the book of Revelation. Maybe it would help explain our idiotic foreign policy over the last seven years.
"Exactly. If the so-called "Liberal Media" would just do a little research and play a few clips from white evangelical preachers, maybe the public would realize that Wright doesn't look so loopy after all."
Yeah, lets get some of those clips out there and demonstrate that Wright is as loopy/racist as those homophobic/racist white preachers! After all, liberals complaining about a white preacher being loopy and denouncing complaints about a black preacher being loopy isn't at all hypocritical.
"Let's look into the theological fantasies of the people who have the Republican Party's gonads in a lockbox."
At least the republican party HAS gonads. Democrats expressed ALL the same fears leading to this war, but were afraid to act on them. Democrats even hyped the fear after the war started, then hypocritically denounced the war when it favored them politically to do so.
"poll members of the Bush administration and fine out how many of them buy into the fairy tales outlined in the book of Revelation. Maybe it would help explain our idiotic foreign policy over the last seven years."
Just listen to Wright. He seems to have all the answers that LIBERALS are looking for. Well, at least for the racist liberals...government created AIDS to kill blacks (I assume the 'white' government), government created and supplied crack to inner cities in hopes the blacks would be the only ones using it and end up in prison (I assume he means the 'white' government), the USofKKKA (I assume he means the 'white' government).
Not all Democrats voted for the war. Afraid to act on them? I think a more accurate description would be that they weren't stupid enough to plunge us into the sh*thole that we now occupy. Or, are you one of those delusional dipsticks who still insists that invading Iraq was a good idea?
At least the republican party HAS gonads.
Yeah, right. How many prominent Republicans (except for Gramps) have been in the armed forces?
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfie, Feith, Scooter, Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. etc. etc. etc. -
NONE!
New Republican motto - "Chickenhawks United"
Methinks PHLIBBER has mistaken reckless stupidity for courage.
Methinks he operates under the mistaken impression that anyone around here cares what he has to day...
"How many prominent Republicans (except for Gramps) have been in the armed forces? NONE! "
Not quite. Bush served, certainly not the way liberals wanted him to, but he served. And, if I remember correctly, he served equally to how Clinton served. Didn't both do everything they could to avoid active duty??? Ooops, I shouldn't have mentioned that. Liberals love and adore Clinton, so that may show another example of liberal hypocrisy.
I noticed that too, Bill. Philib's logic involves a whole lot of prep work to bring his argument home.
I think it was Solon recently who commented about conservatives that "the strawman is sacred". I know the strawman is well used by and necessary to them, but I've been reading enough righty posts here and listening to enough RW radio & TV that I think that nails it. The strawman is not just an accessory or window dressing, it's the very foundation of most ultra-conservative thought.
" "assume" in order to warp Wright's actual words into a parody of them that you can call racist."
Well then, who the heck was he talking about when he claims the "government" caused all those problems?!? Black government? Brown government? Yellow government? Red government? NO! He's talking about White government. God, you people are dense! Do you all live in Egypt where denial runs deep?? Eaxk yourself that question, then tell me he isn't being racist. Even Obama thinks he's gone over the line. WHAT line do you think Obama thinks he went over???? Like I said, I don't care that Wright is a racist, my concern is with Obama not realizing it until now. And, I'm pleased he finally said so. Although I think it may be too late to save his run for the presidency. But, he is only running against hilary, who shoots herself in the foot every other day too. So, he might still make it.
Well, Philib, I did what you suggested: I eaxked myself your question. You seem to be saying that if a black man accuses the government of engaging in racist policies, then that is conclusove proof that that black man is a racist. Hmmmm... interesting take on reality. It might be a tad more compelling if we didn't have the horrific example of the Tuskeegee Experiment, in which a number of black men suffering from syphilis were duped into thinking that they were being treated for their illness when, all the while,actual treatment was being witheld from them. The government, it seems, wanted to document the effects of untreated syphilis on a controlled group, and felt that poor, southern blacks fit the bill. Who, after all, would care if their health and that of their families was compromised? It wasn't as if the government was doing this to real (re WHITE) people. It ranked right up there with Josef Mengele's death camp experiments on Jews.
But, I guess that my mentioning this also makes me a racist by your strange 'reasoning'. Racism... to wingnuts... is the acknowledgement of racism committed by the dominant ethnic group in our nation against minorities. Since you guys STILL refuse to recognize either past or current racist policies by our government, and continue to profess to being 'colorblind', you simply dismiss all accusations of white racism as evidence of black racism... or of white liberal racism. Rush has done a very thorough job of inhibiting your native abilities to recognize reality, encouraging you to instead adopt a soft, comfy cocoon of right wing ideology, and convincing you to repeatedly vote against your own economic interests.
He's got you boys convinced that the old racism is the new victimhood.
That is exactly what I'm trying to say, mescal. It was the white government that did those horrible autrocities. However, MY point is that Wright is a racist and he claims white did this to blacks because they are black and teaches his congregation that only blacks can be trusted to help blacks and whitey is not able to be trusted. Billmn says I'm being racist because Wright never actually said the word "whites" developed AIDS to kill off the black man, when Wright most certainly DID mean that.
While you may continue to hide your racism by calling it a "government" action, the truth is, you mean "white government", otherwise you would have NO point in saying that the government is causing all these racially offensive acts.
Thank you for confirming my point, Philib. You are still arguing that accusing the government of conducting racist policies is in itself proof that the accuser is a racist. It is a bizarre argument to be sure, but it is now undeniably the argument that you are making. Following your 'logic', one would have to conclude that any Jew who talks about the Holocaust is guilty of practicing antisemitism, and Armenians talking about the genocide committed against their people by the Ottoman Turks are therefore pro genocide.
Are you really the Savage Weiner, only using a slick alias in order to post here? Ehhh... probably not. Not even HIS thought processes are THIS disordered.
One thing that I've always been a bit curious about, and maybe you can edify me on this... what exactly IS the color of the sky on planet Wingnut?
"You are still arguing that accusing the government of conducting racist policies is in itself proof that the accuser is a racist."
I don't mind that you can't understand simple english. I also don't need to prove my point over and over again. So, I'll stop now and relish in the fact that you liberals are holding Wright up like some kind of hero when he's nothing more than your typical racist. It really speaks volumes for the kind of people you are when you revere Wright and his racist ideals and denounce someone trying to point out his racism. Is that why your party went to the KKK and asked their leader to become your leader?
That's quite the accusation there, phil. I especially liked the way you quoted Wright making that argument. Oh, that's right. Nevermind.
So, anyway this is actually fun witnessing your mindbendingly ignorant emotional appeals.
Do continue.
Let them eat straw.
Lots of neat things to do with straw. Building a population out of it is a bit perverse. So it fits the profile.
Is this where Jeff Katz washed up? He started off at KSFO ("Hate Talk 560") in the San Francisco Bay Area with a noonhour radio show. I believe I am correct that he had no radio experience - and he was just another right wing blow hard (of which KSFO still has several, even after letting Mel-UN-nie Morgan go).
Well, California's loss is now North Carolina's misery...where is his next gig going to be - Ft. Jefferson?
"...play that funky music white-boy."
http://www.freewebs.com/writingindependence/MediaPuzzler.pdf
.."negritude" in America boiling over again, public statements critical of the Cult of Corruption (from a Black or by any association) will instantly convert to a lynch-mob recrimination catharsis..