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Jonah Goldberg misrepresented Gore's comments about Hurricane Katrina

May 20, 2008 7:32 pm ET
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SUMMARY: In his Los Angeles Times column, Jonah Goldberg asserted that in an NPR interview, Al Gore "chuckled" at the idea that Hurricane Katrina "was God's wrath for New Orleans' sexual depravity," then "went on to blame Katrina on man's energy sinfulness." In fact, Gore stated during the interview that "any individual storm can't be linked singularly to global warming." Goldberg also claimed that the numbers of polar bears "have quadrupled in the last 50 years"; in fact, data to support estimates of the polar bear population 50 years ago are reportedly nonexistent, recent growth in the polar bear population is believed to be linked to hunting bans, and the Department of Interior found that "the polar bear is likely to become an endangered species within the foreseeable future."

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In his May 20 Los Angeles Times column, National Review Online editor-at-large Jonah Goldberg asserted that in an NPR interview, former Vice President Al Gore "went on to blame [Hurricane] Katrina on man's energy sinfulness." Goldberg wrote: "I heard Gore on NPR the other day. He was asked what he made of evangelical pastor Joseph [sic: John] Hagee's absurd comment that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath for New Orleans' sexual depravity. Naturally, Gore chuckled at such backwardness. But then the Nobel laureate went on to blame Katrina on man's energy sinfulness." In fact, Gore stated that "any individual storm can't be linked singularly to global warming." Asked about Hagee's comment regarding Hurricane Katrina, Gore responded: "Well, my friends in New Orleans said, 'Well, if that's the case, how come God spared the French Quarter?' Of course that's silly."

From the May 6 edition of NPR's Fresh Air:

TERRY GROSS (host): You know, in your book [The Assault on Reason] you mention that you think Katrina, Hurricane Katrina, convinced Americans to look differently at climate crisis --

GORE: Some, mm-hmm.

GROSS: -- even though no one can say for sure whether Katrina was directly a result of the climate crisis or not. But, you know, one reaction to Katrina, one now-famous reaction, was from Pastor John Hagee, whose endorsement John McCain sought.

GORE: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: And on our show about Hurricane Katrina, he said, "All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that. I believe that Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans." And he went on to explain that this was punishment for a gay pride parade that was about to happen that promised to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in all of the gay pride parades. So what do you think about when you hear a reaction like that to Katrina?

GORE: Well, my friends in New Orleans said, "Well, if that's the case, how come God spared the French Quarter?" Of course that's silly. It's also important to note that the emerging consensus among the climate scientists is that even though any individual storm can't be linked singularly to global warming -- we've always had hurricanes -- nevertheless, the trend toward more Category 5 storms, the larger ones, and the trend toward stronger and more destructive storms, appears to be linked to global warming and specifically to the impact of global warming on higher ocean temperatures in the top couple hundred feet of the ocean, which drives convection energy and moisture into these storms and makes them more powerful.

Goldberg also wrote that "[t]he U.S. government just put polar bears on the threatened species list because climate change is shrinking the Arctic ice where they live." Goldberg then asserted: "Never mind that polar bears are in fact thriving -- their numbers have quadrupled in the last 50 years." Goldberg offered no evidence to support the claim, which is based on the myth that the polar bear population increased from a speculated 5,000 in the 1950s to approximately 25,000 today. But Dr. Andrew Derocher, a polar bear scientist at the University of Alberta and a member of Polar Bear International's Scientific Advisory Council, pointed out that "early estimates of polar bear abundance are a guess. There is no data at all for the 1950-60s."

Derocher also asserted that the estimated low populations of polar bears in the mid-20th century were the result of "excess harvest," adding that it is unsound to use the bear's recovery from over-hunting to its current population as a reason to doubt the threat posed to the future viability of the species from global warming. Derocher said: "Comparing declines caused by harvest followed by recovery from harvest controls to declines from loss of habitat and climate warming are apples and oranges." According to Derocher:

Sea ice change and habitat loss is the key driving force. Ignore the bears for a moment and look at the evidence for sea ice change: NASA is a key player in looking at the actual decreases in sea ice. It is an easy matter to put the dots together: no habitat, no seals; no seals, no bears. This never was an issue of polar bears alone. The only effective conservation approach is to protect the habitat and this is an issue of climate change. You can distort the issue any way you so desire. At the end of the day, the sea ice is disappearing. Take away the habitat and the species follows shortly thereafter (or before).

Indeed, according to the Department of Interior's (DOI) May 14 final rule, polar bears are not "in fact thriving." While DOI noted that the current global population estimate for the polar bear is 25,000, it nevertheless found that "the polar bear is likely to become an endangered species within the foreseeable future throughout all of its range." Further, in announcing the decision to list the polar bear as threatened, Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne specifically addressed the increase in the polar bear's population:

Although the population of bears has grown from a low of about 12,000 in the late 1960's to approximately 25,000 today, our scientists advise me that computer modeling projects a significant population decline by the year 2050. This, in my judgment, makes the polar bear a threatened species -- one likely to become in danger of extinction in the foreseeable future.

Moreover, issuing its final rule, DOI assessed the "current population status and trend" of the 19 polar bear populations and stated that only "two polar bear populations are designated as increasing," both of which "were severely reduced in the past and are recovering under conservative harvest limits." DOI also stated that six populations are stable, five populations are declining, and six populations are designated as "data deficient." Further, of the "two populations with the most extensive time series of data" DOI concluded that both are "considered to be declining." From DOI's final rule:

On the basis of information presented above, two polar bear populations are designated as increasing (Viscount Melville Sound and M'Clintock Channel -- both were severely reduced in the past and are recovering under conservative harvest limits); six populations are stable (Northern Beaufort Sea, Southern Hudson Bay, Davis Strait, Lancaster Sound, Gulf of Bothia, Foxe Basin); five populations are declining (Southern Beaufort Sea, Norwegian Bay, Western Hudson Bay, Kane Basin, Baffin Bay); and six populations are designated as data deficient (Barents Sea, Kara Sea, Laptev Sea, Chukchi 23 Sea, Arctic Basin, East Greenland) with no estimate of trend. The two populations with the most extensive time series of data, Western Hudson Bay and Southern Beaufort Sea, are both considered to be declining.

As the blog Think Progress noted, on the April 3 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck, Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) asserted that there is an "overpopulation problem" with polar bears, repeating the myth that "[s]ince 1950, we have quadrupled the number of polar bears. The populations have gone up from the range of 5,000 to 10,000 to 20,000 to 25,000."

From Goldberg's May 20 Los Angeles Times column:

Environmentalism's most renewable resources are fear, guilt and moral bullying. Its worldview casts man as a sinful creature who, through the pursuit of forbidden knowledge, abandoned our Edenic past. John Muir, who laid the philosophical foundations of modern environmentalism, described humans as "selfish, conceited creatures." Salvation comes from shedding our sins, rejecting our addictions (to oil, consumerism, etc.) and demonstrating through deeds an all-encompassing love of Mother Earth. Quoth Al Gore: "The climate crisis is not a political issue; it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity."

I heard Gore on NPR the other day. He was asked what he made of evangelical pastor Joseph Hagee's absurd comment that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath for New Orleans' sexual depravity. Naturally, Gore chuckled at such backwardness. But then the Nobel laureate went on to blame Katrina on man's energy sinfulness. It struck me that the two men were not so different. If only canoodling residents of the Big Easy had adhered to "The Greenpeace Guide to Environmentally Friendly Sex."

Environmentalists are keen to insist that their movement is a secular one. But using the word "secular" no more makes you secular than using the word "Christian" automatically means you behave like a Christian. Pioneering green lawyer Joseph Sax, for example, describes environmentalists as "secular prophets, preaching a message of secular salvation." Gore too has often been dubbed a "prophet." It's no surprise that a green-themed California hotel provides Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" right next to the Bible and a Buddhist tome.

Whether it's adopted the trappings of religion or not, my biggest beef with environmentalism is how comfortably irrational it is. It touts ritual over reality, symbolism over substance, while claiming to be so much more rational and scientific than those silly sky-God worshipers and deranged oil addicts.

It often seems that displaying faith in the green cause is more important than advancing the green cause. The U.S. government just put polar bears on the threatened species list because climate change is shrinking the Arctic ice where they live. Never mind that polar bears are in fact thriving -- their numbers have quadrupled in the last 50 years. Never mind that full implementation of the Kyoto protocols on greenhouse gases would save exactly one polar bear, according to Danish social scientist Bjorn Lomborg, author of the 2007 book "Cool It!"

Yet about 300 to 500 polar bears could be saved every year, starting right now, Lomborg says, if there were a ban on hunting them in Canada. What's cheaper, trillions to trim carbon emissions or paying off the Canadians to stop killing polar bears?

Plastic grocery bags are being banned all over the place, even though they require less energy to make or recycle than paper ones. The whole country is being forced to subscribe to a modern version of transubstantiation, whereby corn is miraculously transformed into sinless energy even as it does worse damage than oil.

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    • Author by ajzito (May 20, 2008 7:42 pm ET)
         
      Right wing fanatics like Goldberg see the world exclusively in political terms.  It is impossible for Goldberg to conceive that any part of any argument might be based upon a set of facts that reasonable people agree upon.  The right sets goals and cooks up whatever psuedofacts, dreams, myths, lies, etc., it needs to support its position.  How could the left be any different?  It is a grand example of projecting oneself onto the other, and it is completely delusional.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by SFnomad (May 20, 2008 7:48 pm ET)
         
      I guess when the truth isn't on your side, you've got to just make shit up.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mefirst (May 20, 2008 7:52 pm ET)
         

      environmentalism is "comfortably irrational"?   some people can go a bit far, but it's pretty much based on science, not "ritual over reality".  what utter nonsense.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by funnymanpants (May 20, 2008 7:53 pm ET)
         
      What do you expect from an idealogue who believes that fascism is a liberal phenonma, and uses the fact that both Hitler and the left are interested in organic foods as part of his proof? 
      Report Abuse
      • Author by funnymanpants (May 20, 2008 7:56 pm ET)
           

        FMP wrote:

        >>What do you expect from an idealogue who believes that fascism is a liberal phenonma, and uses the fact that both Hitler and the left are interested in organic foods as part of his proof?

        I spoke to soon. I missed the very same stupidity in Goldberg's piece. He writes "It's no surprise that a green-themed California hotel provides Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" right next to the Bible and a Buddhist tome." Yes. what convincing proof. Gore's book sits next to religious works in one hotel, so it is therefore it is just religion itself. God that guy is dumb!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by mefirst (May 20, 2008 8:04 pm ET)
             
          hitler liked dogs too.  i'm just sayin....
          Report Abuse
          • Author by sluggo (May 20, 2008 11:06 pm ET)
               

            Wait...

            Don't both Saddam and Goldberg have beards? (Or "Had" in the case of Saddam.)

            Hmmm...

            What does that mean?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by wookie (May 21, 2008 11:27 am ET)
                 
              Same with Santa. And he redistributes wealth too!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by tex (May 21, 2008 3:14 pm ET)
                   

                Goldberg is the beneficiary of rightwing "affirmative action". It doesn't matter what your race, background, accomplishments, or morality might be, as long as you're willing to ceaselessly spout the rightwing line of arrogant ignorance, hatred and bigotry.

                Goldberg is a particularly keen example that no discernable intelligence is necessary in order to rake in those paychecks from the rightwing media masters. 

                Incredible, guys like Goldberg and Beck (AND BUSH!) are held up as people whose opinions should matter, when in a just world they would have difficulty feeding themselves if depending on their own "talents". 

                Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (May 20, 2008 8:12 pm ET)
         
      Not as much as Poland, and submisive sex. Either is as relavent as Mr. Goldberg's breathless prose.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by MickD (May 20, 2008 8:28 pm ET)
         
      This type of punditry is like comfort food to people who believe that any warning regarding the planet's ecosphere is simply "people trying to appear smarter" than they are. Generally, if there is anything the "conservatives" are against, it's intelligent thought.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (May 20, 2008 8:34 pm ET)
         

      Many power structures have viewed intelligent though with suspicision.

      Couldn't say how history will veiw the neocon effort to supress it. You can't deny they've had some sucesses here.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (May 20, 2008 8:37 pm ET)
         
       -- More than 31,000 scientists across the U.S. – including more than 9,000 Ph.D.s in fields such as atmospheric science, climatology, Earth science, environment and dozens of other specialties – have signed a petition rejecting "global warming," the assumption that the human production of greenhouse gases is damaging Earth's climate.

      "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate," the petition states. "Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth." -- Worldnetdaily

      Report Abuse
      • Author by funnymanpants (May 20, 2008 8:47 pm ET)
           

        Wesley wrote:

        >>More than 31,000 scientists across the U.S. – including more than 9,000 Ph.D.s in fields such as atmospheric science, 

        God this is stupid! This petition is a hoax and known to be a  hoax: 

        Scientific American took a sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition —- one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers – a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community.[16]

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition#Signatories

        ***

        Meanwhile, there is a real consensus on global warming:

        http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686 

         

        Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (May 20, 2008 9:07 pm ET)
             

          You're woefully out of date and touch...you're citing a 2005 article...on the wrong petition.

          The new petition is just out...May08. 

          1. Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,697 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.

          2. Computer and mathematical sciences includes 903 scientists trained in computer and mathematical methods. Since the human-caused global warming hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially important in evaluating this hypothesis.

          3. Physics and aerospace sciences include 5,691 scientists trained in the fundamental physical and molecular properties of gases, liquids, and solids, which are essential to understanding the physical properties of the atmosphere and Earth.

          4. Chemistry includes 4,796 scientists trained in the molecular interactions and behaviors of the substances of which the atmosphere and Earth are composed.

          5. Biology and agriculture includes 2,924 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of living things on the Earth.

          6. Medicine includes 3,069 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of human beings on the Earth.

          7. Engineering and general science includes 9,992 scientists trained primarily in the many engineering specialties required to maintain modern civilization and the prosperity required for all human actions, including environmental programs.

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by funnymanpants (May 20, 2008 9:16 pm ET)
               

            Wesley wrote:

            >>You're woefully out of date and touch...you're citing a 2005 article...on the wrong petition.

            No I'm not. From your very own link: 

            The Petition Project actually was launched nearly 10 years ago, when the first few thousand signatures were assembled. Then, between 1999 and 2007, the list of signatures grew gradually without any special effort or campaign.

            But more importantly, science is not settled by a petition. It is settled by actual science. And here are the results of science (as my link shows above):

            The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.

            When you can show peer reviewed articles that actually challenge the consensus, then you can star the debate.

            It is time to put up or shut up 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by wesley (May 20, 2008 10:08 pm ET)
                 

               -- (New York City - March 3, 2008)--The co-authors of the best-seller Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1,500 Years today released a second list of more than 400 peer-reviewed scientists who’ve recently found physical evidence of the long, natural climate cycle--bringing the total of such authors to more than 700. --

              Go to the Inhofe EPW Press Blog and you will find dozens of peer-reviewed studies and their links.

              There you go cupcake...have at it...a new book to read and hours and hours of surfing...no thanks necessary. 

               

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (May 20, 2008 10:13 pm ET)
                   
                Religious conservatives sure seem to spend a lot of time "smearing" other people by calling them religious.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by BillJ-MN (May 20, 2008 10:51 pm ET)
                   
                The existence of "long, natural climate cycles" doesn't mean anything with regard to human influenced global warming.  You're not ignorant enough to believe it's an either/or scenario, are you?  The existence of those studies do NOTHING to contradict the mountains of evidence indicating human influenced global warming.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (May 20, 2008 11:05 pm ET)
                   

                Wesley wrote:

                >>Go to the Inhofe EPW Press Blog and you will find dozens of peer-reviewed studies and their links.

                First, the petition you linked to is the infamous Oregon petition--and you didn't even know it. It is a bogus petiton, exactly as I said. You can add as many names as you want; it won't change it from being fraudalent.

                But more to the point: I asked to to show peer reviewed studies that refute global warming. Not surprisingly, you did not. You merely said to look at the Inhofe website. Sorry, I've already looked at it in the past. Inhofe has been called "the serial abuser" of science. His website *claimed* to show peer-reviewed studies refuting global warming. They do not.

                So again: My link shows that there are 696 studies supporting global warming. Show me the science that refutes this. I am asking for science, not hype and insults (like "cupcake"). Every time I have issued this challenge in the past, no one has ever been able to meet it. That is because the *science* backs up my position, which is why intelligent people like Al Gore know Global warming as real and a threat.

                Put up or shut up, Wesley.  

                 

                Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (May 20, 2008 11:38 pm ET)
                   

                Weslely wrote:

                >>(New York City - March 3, 2008)--The co-authors of the best-seller Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1,500 Years today released a second list of more than 400 peer-reviewed scientists who’ve recently found physical evidence of the long, natural climate cycle--bringing the total of such authors to more than 700.

                My bad. I just should have assumed you were being more dishonest and misleading than you were. I thought you were talking about the original petition that you mentioned in your first post. Instead, after I showed your initial petition to be fraudelent (and pointed out you didn't even know when it was published and what it was), you simply posted another petition, one that has nothing to do with the original.

                Like I said, the deniers of global warming adhere to their religion like fundamentalists to the belief that the earth was created in six days. That is why again I am demanding that you show the *science,* the peer-reviewed articles that refute the mass of evidence for global warming. Otherwise you will just post BS for hours on end.  

                Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (May 20, 2008 11:41 pm ET)
                   
                as senator from oklahoma, inhofe gets large contributions from the oil and gas industry in that state.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by mghamma (May 21, 2008 4:37 am ET)
                   
                As opposed to the 10s of millions of the rest of the scientists in the world that don't disagree with the mmgw consensis? I guess that their opinions don't hold a candle to your 400 economists and mathimatitions, huh Wesley?
                Report Abuse
            • Author by NL207 (May 22, 2008 1:59 am ET)
                 

              You are referring to the Oreskes article in Science, yet another embarrassment for that once proud journal.  Obviously you have not ever tried to reproduce Naomi Oreskes results using the methods described in her paper.  

              "That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords "climate change""

              If one actually does this search in the Thomsen ISI database for the interval specified, it will reveal more than 928 papers.  Clearly Oreskes ruled out at least some papers meeting the search criteria.  Yet if you read Oreskes methods, no where does she describe criteria for excluding publications matching her search expression.  This fact by itself discredits Oreskes' assessment.  Other researchers got numbers of hits varying from 929 to 1117.  I have access to the Thomsen Web of Science myself.  I see 929.  I must doubt the 1117 number unless different search criteria were used.  But ....   Not all of these are peer reviewed papers although they might have appeared in a peer-reviewed journal.  Some are editorials, essays, and articles.  Consequently, not all of them have abstracts.  Note that Oreskes says she 'analyzed abstracts'.  How do you analyze the abstract of a work which does not have an abstract?  Another interesting point is the use of Thomsen-ISI in the first place.  It is by subscription only.  There are many other services that could be used, many of them free.  This link identifies numerous such.

              Moreover, her criteria for scoring the published content are very subjective.  Her examination of each tract was confined to its abstract and no more.  She was the sole evaluator, and has no more science training than a BS degree in Geology.  Her advanced degree is in History of Science.  Oreskes CV.  This science background is less than literally thousands of the signers of the latest OISM petition, whom you and other ignorant liberals roundly condemn as lacking expertise in the field of climatology.  It appears your star evaluator in this case has no better credentials than the vast majority of the OISM signers and is not as well trained in science as many.

              This article appeared online last year discussing the Oreskes paper and some of its critics.  It paints a very different picture than Oreskes.  Either Oreskes is wrong, there has been a huge shift in scientific opinion since 2003, or Schulte is wrong.  I am inclined to think the opinion has changed or at least the willingness to express an opinion has changed, because the Schulte study reflects what I know my peers think about Anthropogenic Global Warming.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by skeptical (May 22, 2008 10:00 pm ET)
                   

                You are a SAD little man NL.  Give it up, linking to accuweather.com doesn't cut it.

                Get a real "Scientific" journal link somewhere and you might have some credibility.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by open_mind (May 20, 2008 11:36 pm ET)
               

            "Since the human-caused global warming hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially important in evaluating this hypothesis."--Wesley

            That is an utterly false assertion.  It is observable that so-called Greenhouse gases absorb infrared light that would otherwise escape into space.  It is demonstratable in labs - contrary to your dubious assertions. 

            It is not unreasonable to conclude that the more these Greenhouse gases are produced in relation to human activity - above and beyond natural production, will likely correspond to higher temperatures than there would be without those Greenhouse gases present- which is Global Warming Theory in a nutshell.  Your assertions - apparently from Worldnutdaily are ridiculous.  I thought you had more sense than to quote from them.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by wesley (May 21, 2008 8:40 am ET)
                 

               -- from Worldnutdaily are ridiculous -- openmind

              Worldnetdaily does not perform peer-reviews...they report the existence of those studies...if you're open-minded enough to look for yourself.

               --  A new analysis of peer-reviewed literature reveals that more than 500 scientists have published evidence refuting at least one element of current man-made global warming scares. --  The  Earth  Times  Sep07

              It matters little to me if you choose to ignore the anti-GW science...but the days are long gone when global warming alarmists...with fingers in their ears and eyes closed and visions of Al Gore dancing in their heads...could hide behind the "no peer-reviewed" studies smoke screen. 



               


               

              Report Abuse
              • Author by mary59 (May 21, 2008 9:23 am ET)
                   
                Do you have children?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (May 21, 2008 9:33 am ET)
                     
                  Hard to find a date let alone get married and have children when he's constantly posting WolrdNetDaily articles from his parents basement.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (May 21, 2008 5:24 pm ET)
                   

                Wesely wrote:

                >>A new analysis of peer-reviewed literature reveals that more than 500 scientists have published evidence refuting at least one element of current man-made global warming scares. --  The  Earth  Times  Sep07

                Ugh! Again, Wesley, I am asking you to put up or shut up. It is really simple. There are over 600 peer-reviewed studies supporting global warming. Where is the science that refutes it?

                Nowhere.

                Your BS makes it sound as if such peer-reviewed science exists. It doesn't. It merely states that peer-reviewed scientists present arguments. But none of these arguments themselves are peer-reviewed. In other words, a biologist can present a peer-reviewed paper on the structure of a cell, so he is peer-reviewed. He can then go on to spout off some garbage about how the earth is not heating up, but he has no science to support his view. These are the 500 scientist you are talking about.

                Or, consider that the famous astronomer Kepler's observations paved the way for Galileo's theories. But Kepler also believed the heavenly bodies made music. You see, in the first case, Kepler's work is accepeted because it  passes the scientific method; his second belief is considered ludicrous. 

                There simply is no peer-reviewed science that refutes global warming. 

                Again,  Wesley, put up or shut up.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by open_mind (May 22, 2008 9:44 pm ET)
                   

                Wesley,

                I personally don't care about WorldNutDaily or what they are reporting on.  I am skeptical of GW theory and the deniers.

                What I do find interesting is that I pointed out a blatant falsehood in your post right off the bat.  No response?

                Report Abuse
        • Author by Goodfella57 (May 20, 2008 11:14 pm ET)
             

          FMP:

          This statement in your linked article shows the bias of the authors:

          "Some corporations whose revenues might be adversely affected by controls on carbon dioxide emissions have also alleged major uncertainties in the science"

          I know you won't see it that way, because it fits with your own bias.  

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by funnymanpants (May 20, 2008 11:19 pm ET)
               

            Goodfellas wrote:

            >>I know you won't see it that way, because it fits with your own bias.  

            Yes, I won't see it that way, because it is not there. Did you happen to notice that all three publicans did a rudimentary check on the signatures, and even this rudimentary check revealed major flaws, such as fake names, names that were repeated, and scientists who didn't have their P.h.D.s?

            But I really couldn't care less if every signature checked out. Science is not conducted by petitions. The science is on our side. Show me the science--the peer-reviewed studies--that refute the consensus on global warming.  

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Goodfella57 (May 21, 2008 2:18 am ET)
                 

              FMP,

              No...I don't have peer reviewed papers to show you. 

              But why are you so against any debate on the issue. Do you at least acknowledge the climate change could be part of the natural cycle of the earth? Do you really think that switching to those goofy spiral light bulbs will save the planet? 

              It seems that you, Al Gore (is he a peer-reviewed scientist?) and the IPCC are trying to make the science fit the agenda, which is ultimately wealth redistribution and socialism.  The UN was WRONG about the AIDS epidemic, and they're wrong about global warming...Time will tell.  

              Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (May 21, 2008 7:40 am ET)
                   
                "wealth redistribution"?  how about all our wealth that is going to foreign countries at 125 a barrel?  those goofy spiral lightbulbs are part of the solution, but you don't seem to offer more than mocking them.  i've been using them for years and they reduce your bill.  don't know about you, but i like a smaller electric bill that also helps to cut back on energy consumption.  and you trot out the usual red herring about natural cycles.  no one denies that those happen, the question is simply the rate at which man made warming is happening.   and i  think he's trying to have a debate with you, he asked you to bring some peer reviewed papers to the table.  mocking references to goofy lightbulbs do not a debate make.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (May 21, 2008 5:29 pm ET)
                   

                Goodfellas wrote:

                >>No...I don't have peer reviewed papers to show you.

                And then wrote:

                >>But why are you so against any debate on the issue.

                You see, you contradict yourself. I accept debate. But I won't the debate to be real and healthy. You want to spread a bunch of BS. If you want a real debate, then you present the best science you can offer; our side will do the same. And when that happens, guess what? There is no debate, because your side does not have any science.

                Instead, you have  hype, and your post shows it. You write "IPCC are trying to make the science fit the agenda, which is ultimately wealth redistribution and socialism." How typical! Our side presents science, and your side answers with a smear. Global warming has nothing to do with socialism or any other agenda. It has to do with the best science in the world. I know you right wing reactionaries would rather thrown around terms like socialism and wealth distribution, but that is not science.

                Put up or shut up. I'm not falling for your stupid rhetoric. 

                Report Abuse
            • Author by Goodfella57 (May 21, 2008 2:20 am ET)
                 

              "But I really couldn't care less if every signature checked out. Science is not conducted by petitions." 

              FMP,

              re-read my post. I never mentioned the petition. 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (May 21, 2008 9:31 am ET)
                   

                could you explain the "bias" in the statement that major corporations whose profits could be affected have raised doubts about global warming?  it's a fact that exxon has contributed money to groups like the competitive enterprise institute which question whether increased carbon dioxide can cause warming.  where is the bias?

                http://cei.org/pages/co2.cfm

                Report Abuse
          • Author by open_mind (May 20, 2008 11:45 pm ET)
               

            Would you object to a reporter mentioning that all (or just about all) of the "science" that battled the medical community with regard to cigarettes being "dangerous" was funded by interests directly related to the sale and/or promotion of tobacco? 

            Do you think the reader should at least have that information so they can decide for themselves whether cigarettes are or aren't bad for them?

            Report Abuse
      • Author by open_mind (May 20, 2008 11:19 pm ET)
           
        Hahahahahaha.  Nice punchline.  Worldnutdaily.  Ha!  Now there's a source you can count on to get the real nitty-gritty.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (May 20, 2008 10:59 pm ET)
         

      Been there Wesly, not an impressive group. Other than the effort to present so many people whose work might intersect the Climitalogical field. Few  climatologists. Most just disagree on a detail or two. With dubious credentials to do so in many cases.

      As a true believer of the church of golbal warming denial. I don't see you ever admiting its exsistence. There is no evidence supporting it that you'll ever believe. On the other foot who have you convinced here, that wasn't already in agreement with your position?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Goodfella57 (May 21, 2008 2:25 am ET)
         

      Joe Bastardi: Another oil company shill?

      Follow the link...read the letter. He's right 

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by MoonbatYouBet (May 21, 2008 7:16 am ET)
           

        A frikkin' weatherman who thinks that scientific questions should be resolved with a debate?  Not even close to right.

        Debates are not won by the side that has the best evidence of the truth, they are won by the side that best persuades the audience.  There is plenty of scientific study to still be done in this area, that's true, but to listen to the people who keep saying nothing more than "Everything is fine, there's nothing we can do, just learn to live whatever changes may happen in the future, it's not our fault," is insane.  Denialists appeal to emotion, not logic.   They use marketing, not science.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by magnolialover (May 21, 2008 7:23 am ET)
             
          This is what they don't get. You don't debate scientific studies. You review them, test their conclusions (in other words, replicate what their conclusions are), if you can re-create the conclusions, and produce the same data, all is well.

          This isn't a debate, per se, but one of reviewing the information, and seeing if it proves right.

          Also, global warming is NOT a partisan issue, but is only seen as partisan by the right, mostly because Al Gore works on it. That's essentially the only reason.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by anotheramerican (May 21, 2008 10:18 am ET)
               

            Mags,

            Part of the problem with Al Gore is that he does not seem to practice what he preaches. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 21, 2008 2:36 pm ET)
                 
              Stated without proof, as is everything AA posts.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Goodfella57 (May 21, 2008 5:13 pm ET)
                   

                "Stated without proof, as is everything AA posts."- Easy to refute wingnuts

                 ETRW, This article by Jake Tapper is what AA is referring to. Excerpt: "Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy."

                 This is even more ironic: Bush vs Gore on who has the 'greener' house.
                Excerpt: "As someone who has personally taken steps to reduce my own electricity usage by switching out lightbulbs, using a programmable thermostat and switching to Green Mountain Energy for my electricity, I can say that I am personally disappointed.Sure, all offsets his carbon usage, but can’t he help set a better example for us? Why wouldn’t he take some steps to really green up his house, since he obviously has the money for it. Maybe he should call George W, and ask for his advice!"

                 

                 

                 



                 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by mefirst (May 21, 2008 8:32 pm ET)
                     

                  gore owns a 70 year old house and had to get special approval from his neighborhood association to install solar panels.  he's also done other numerous upgrades. see the link. the idea that bush cares more about  green issues is laughable.

                  http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/18/america/NA-GEN-US-Al-Gore-Solar-Panels.php

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Goodfella57 (May 21, 2008 11:20 pm ET)
                       

                    MeFirst,

                    Once again you need to contort, manipulate and spin the truth to make it fit your premise.

                    The truth is, Gore is a hypocrite and believes he is above his own recommendations.    

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by mefirst (May 22, 2008 7:44 am ET)
                         
                      i'm still waiting for you to explain the bias in the statement that companies whose profits will be affected are denying man made global warming. 
                      Report Abuse
            • Author by pithaughn (May 21, 2008 4:01 pm ET)
                 
              AA - Agreed, Gore is a hypocrite. (just one of the basic traits that is universal to humans). What Al Gore is and is not in no way changes the science. In a nutshell, climate scientists, based on 40 years of research, noticed that the Earth should be entering a cooling phase, but, they were surprised to see that year after year, decade after decade, the data consistently showed a gradual warming. What the heck? After scouting around they discarded several warming theories (increased solar radiation for instance) and found that the increase in man made greenhouse gas emissions over the last 150 years nearly perfectly matches computer models. Computer models based on data collected from ice sheets, deep ocean deposits etc. that have preserved a history of Earth's climate for the last 800,000 to 5 billion years. That is what your dreaded consensus is based on.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by skeptical (May 21, 2008 11:47 pm ET)
           

        Hey Goodfella,

        What are you talking about?  You present a Weatherman who has no science to back up his claims.

        What does that mean?

        Are you as stupid or dishonest as AA?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Goodfella57 (May 22, 2008 12:08 pm ET)
             

          "Are you as stupid or dishonest as AA?"- skeptical

          So I am stupid AND a liar? You left out fat....

          Once again, the true colors of the close-minded left come through. Rather thandiscuss an issue, you feel the need to resort to petty name-calling.   Very sad.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by skeptical (May 22, 2008 1:26 pm ET)
               

            Goodfella,

            If there was something to discuss, I would be happy to discuss it.  You posted something stupid, so either you are stupid and believe it or you don't believe it and posted because you are dishonest.

            There are no other options.  This isn't a matter of opinion.

            If you want to have a discussion, let's discuss what to do about global warming.  What is the best way to reduce it's effects and maintain our economy.

            To deny it's existence is simply stupid!

            Report Abuse

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