Jonah Goldberg misrepresented Gore's comments about Hurricane Katrina
SUMMARY: In his Los Angeles Times column, Jonah Goldberg asserted that in an NPR interview, Al Gore "chuckled" at the idea that Hurricane Katrina "was God's wrath for New Orleans' sexual depravity," then "went on to blame Katrina on man's energy sinfulness." In fact, Gore stated during the interview that "any individual storm can't be linked singularly to global warming." Goldberg also claimed that the numbers of polar bears "have quadrupled in the last 50 years"; in fact, data to support estimates of the polar bear population 50 years ago are reportedly nonexistent, recent growth in the polar bear population is believed to be linked to hunting bans, and the Department of Interior found that "the polar bear is likely to become an endangered species within the foreseeable future."
In his May 20 Los Angeles Times column, National Review Online editor-at-large Jonah Goldberg asserted that in an NPR interview, former Vice President Al Gore "went on to blame [Hurricane] Katrina on man's energy sinfulness." Goldberg wrote: "I heard Gore on NPR the other day. He was asked what he made of evangelical pastor Joseph [sic: John] Hagee's absurd comment that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath for New Orleans' sexual depravity. Naturally, Gore chuckled at such backwardness. But then the Nobel laureate went on to blame Katrina on man's energy sinfulness." In fact, Gore stated that "any individual storm can't be linked singularly to global warming." Asked about Hagee's comment regarding Hurricane Katrina, Gore responded: "Well, my friends in New Orleans said, 'Well, if that's the case, how come God spared the French Quarter?' Of course that's silly."
From the May 6 edition of NPR's Fresh Air:
TERRY GROSS (host): You know, in your book [The Assault on Reason] you mention that you think Katrina, Hurricane Katrina, convinced Americans to look differently at climate crisis --
GORE: Some, mm-hmm.
GROSS: -- even though no one can say for sure whether Katrina was directly a result of the climate crisis or not. But, you know, one reaction to Katrina, one now-famous reaction, was from Pastor John Hagee, whose endorsement John McCain sought.
GORE: Mm-hmm.
GROSS: And on our show about Hurricane Katrina, he said, "All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that. I believe that Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans." And he went on to explain that this was punishment for a gay pride parade that was about to happen that promised to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in all of the gay pride parades. So what do you think about when you hear a reaction like that to Katrina?
GORE: Well, my friends in New Orleans said, "Well, if that's the case, how come God spared the French Quarter?" Of course that's silly. It's also important to note that the emerging consensus among the climate scientists is that even though any individual storm can't be linked singularly to global warming -- we've always had hurricanes -- nevertheless, the trend toward more Category 5 storms, the larger ones, and the trend toward stronger and more destructive storms, appears to be linked to global warming and specifically to the impact of global warming on higher ocean temperatures in the top couple hundred feet of the ocean, which drives convection energy and moisture into these storms and makes them more powerful.
Goldberg also wrote that "[t]he U.S. government just put polar bears on the threatened species list because climate change is shrinking the Arctic ice where they live." Goldberg then asserted: "Never mind that polar bears are in fact thriving -- their numbers have quadrupled in the last 50 years." Goldberg offered no evidence to support the claim, which is based on the myth that the polar bear population increased from a speculated 5,000 in the 1950s to approximately 25,000 today. But Dr. Andrew Derocher, a polar bear scientist at the University of Alberta and a member of Polar Bear International's Scientific Advisory Council, pointed out that "early estimates of polar bear abundance are a guess. There is no data at all for the 1950-60s."
Derocher also asserted that the estimated low populations of polar bears in the mid-20th century were the result of "excess harvest," adding that it is unsound to use the bear's recovery from over-hunting to its current population as a reason to doubt the threat posed to the future viability of the species from global warming. Derocher said: "Comparing declines caused by harvest followed by recovery from harvest controls to declines from loss of habitat and climate warming are apples and oranges." According to Derocher:
Sea ice change and habitat loss is the key driving force. Ignore the bears for a moment and look at the evidence for sea ice change: NASA is a key player in looking at the actual decreases in sea ice. It is an easy matter to put the dots together: no habitat, no seals; no seals, no bears. This never was an issue of polar bears alone. The only effective conservation approach is to protect the habitat and this is an issue of climate change. You can distort the issue any way you so desire. At the end of the day, the sea ice is disappearing. Take away the habitat and the species follows shortly thereafter (or before).
Indeed, according to the Department of Interior's (DOI) May 14 final rule, polar bears are not "in fact thriving." While DOI noted that the current global population estimate for the polar bear is 25,000, it nevertheless found that "the polar bear is likely to become an endangered species within the foreseeable future throughout all of its range." Further, in announcing the decision to list the polar bear as threatened, Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne specifically addressed the increase in the polar bear's population:
Although the population of bears has grown from a low of about 12,000 in the late 1960's to approximately 25,000 today, our scientists advise me that computer modeling projects a significant population decline by the year 2050. This, in my judgment, makes the polar bear a threatened species -- one likely to become in danger of extinction in the foreseeable future.
Moreover, issuing its final rule, DOI assessed the "current population status and trend" of the 19 polar bear populations and stated that only "two polar bear populations are designated as increasing," both of which "were severely reduced in the past and are recovering under conservative harvest limits." DOI also stated that six populations are stable, five populations are declining, and six populations are designated as "data deficient." Further, of the "two populations with the most extensive time series of data" DOI concluded that both are "considered to be declining." From DOI's final rule:
On the basis of information presented above, two polar bear populations are designated as increasing (Viscount Melville Sound and M'Clintock Channel -- both were severely reduced in the past and are recovering under conservative harvest limits); six populations are stable (Northern Beaufort Sea, Southern Hudson Bay, Davis Strait, Lancaster Sound, Gulf of Bothia, Foxe Basin); five populations are declining (Southern Beaufort Sea, Norwegian Bay, Western Hudson Bay, Kane Basin, Baffin Bay); and six populations are designated as data deficient (Barents Sea, Kara Sea, Laptev Sea, Chukchi 23 Sea, Arctic Basin, East Greenland) with no estimate of trend. The two populations with the most extensive time series of data, Western Hudson Bay and Southern Beaufort Sea, are both considered to be declining.
As the blog Think Progress noted, on the April 3 edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck, Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) asserted that there is an "overpopulation problem" with polar bears, repeating the myth that "[s]ince 1950, we have quadrupled the number of polar bears. The populations have gone up from the range of 5,000 to 10,000 to 20,000 to 25,000."
From Goldberg's May 20 Los Angeles Times column:
Environmentalism's most renewable resources are fear, guilt and moral bullying. Its worldview casts man as a sinful creature who, through the pursuit of forbidden knowledge, abandoned our Edenic past. John Muir, who laid the philosophical foundations of modern environmentalism, described humans as "selfish, conceited creatures." Salvation comes from shedding our sins, rejecting our addictions (to oil, consumerism, etc.) and demonstrating through deeds an all-encompassing love of Mother Earth. Quoth Al Gore: "The climate crisis is not a political issue; it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity."
I heard Gore on NPR the other day. He was asked what he made of evangelical pastor Joseph Hagee's absurd comment that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath for New Orleans' sexual depravity. Naturally, Gore chuckled at such backwardness. But then the Nobel laureate went on to blame Katrina on man's energy sinfulness. It struck me that the two men were not so different. If only canoodling residents of the Big Easy had adhered to "The Greenpeace Guide to Environmentally Friendly Sex."
Environmentalists are keen to insist that their movement is a secular one. But using the word "secular" no more makes you secular than using the word "Christian" automatically means you behave like a Christian. Pioneering green lawyer Joseph Sax, for example, describes environmentalists as "secular prophets, preaching a message of secular salvation." Gore too has often been dubbed a "prophet." It's no surprise that a green-themed California hotel provides Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" right next to the Bible and a Buddhist tome.
Whether it's adopted the trappings of religion or not, my biggest beef with environmentalism is how comfortably irrational it is. It touts ritual over reality, symbolism over substance, while claiming to be so much more rational and scientific than those silly sky-God worshipers and deranged oil addicts.
It often seems that displaying faith in the green cause is more important than advancing the green cause. The U.S. government just put polar bears on the threatened species list because climate change is shrinking the Arctic ice where they live. Never mind that polar bears are in fact thriving -- their numbers have quadrupled in the last 50 years. Never mind that full implementation of the Kyoto protocols on greenhouse gases would save exactly one polar bear, according to Danish social scientist Bjorn Lomborg, author of the 2007 book "Cool It!"
Yet about 300 to 500 polar bears could be saved every year, starting right now, Lomborg says, if there were a ban on hunting them in Canada. What's cheaper, trillions to trim carbon emissions or paying off the Canadians to stop killing polar bears?
Plastic grocery bags are being banned all over the place, even though they require less energy to make or recycle than paper ones. The whole country is being forced to subscribe to a modern version of transubstantiation, whereby corn is miraculously transformed into sinless energy even as it does worse damage than oil.















environmentalism is "comfortably irrational"? some people can go a bit far, but it's pretty much based on science, not "ritual over reality". what utter nonsense.
FMP wrote:
>>What do you expect from an idealogue who believes that fascism is a liberal phenonma, and uses the fact that both Hitler and the left are interested in organic foods as part of his proof?
I spoke to soon. I missed the very same stupidity in Goldberg's piece. He writes "It's no surprise that a green-themed California hotel provides Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" right next to the Bible and a Buddhist tome." Yes. what convincing proof. Gore's book sits next to religious works in one hotel, so it is therefore it is just religion itself. God that guy is dumb!
Wait...
Don't both Saddam and Goldberg have beards? (Or "Had" in the case of Saddam.)
Hmmm...
What does that mean?
Goldberg is the beneficiary of rightwing "affirmative action". It doesn't matter what your race, background, accomplishments, or morality might be, as long as you're willing to ceaselessly spout the rightwing line of arrogant ignorance, hatred and bigotry.
Goldberg is a particularly keen example that no discernable intelligence is necessary in order to rake in those paychecks from the rightwing media masters.
Incredible, guys like Goldberg and Beck (AND BUSH!) are held up as people whose opinions should matter, when in a just world they would have difficulty feeding themselves if depending on their own "talents".
Many power structures have viewed intelligent though with suspicision.
Couldn't say how history will veiw the neocon effort to supress it. You can't deny they've had some sucesses here.
"There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate," the petition states. "Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth." -- Worldnetdaily
Wesley wrote:
>>More than 31,000 scientists across the U.S. – including more than 9,000 Ph.D.s in fields such as atmospheric science,
God this is stupid! This petition is a hoax and known to be a hoax:
Scientific American took a sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition —- one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers – a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community.[16]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition#Signatories
***
Meanwhile, there is a real consensus on global warming:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686
You're woefully out of date and touch...you're citing a 2005 article...on the wrong petition.
The new petition is just out...May08.
1. Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,697 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.
2. Computer and mathematical sciences includes 903 scientists trained in computer and mathematical methods. Since the human-caused global warming hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially important in evaluating this hypothesis.
3. Physics and aerospace sciences include 5,691 scientists trained in the fundamental physical and molecular properties of gases, liquids, and solids, which are essential to understanding the physical properties of the atmosphere and Earth.
4. Chemistry includes 4,796 scientists trained in the molecular interactions and behaviors of the substances of which the atmosphere and Earth are composed.
5. Biology and agriculture includes 2,924 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of living things on the Earth.
6. Medicine includes 3,069 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of human beings on the Earth.
7. Engineering and general science includes 9,992 scientists trained primarily in the many engineering specialties required to maintain modern civilization and the prosperity required for all human actions, including environmental programs.
Wesley wrote:
>>You're woefully out of date and touch...you're citing a 2005 article...on the wrong petition.
No I'm not. From your very own link:
The Petition Project actually was launched nearly 10 years ago, when the first few thousand signatures were assembled. Then, between 1999 and 2007, the list of signatures grew gradually without any special effort or campaign.
But more importantly, science is not settled by a petition. It is settled by actual science. And here are the results of science (as my link shows above):
The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.
When you can show peer reviewed articles that actually challenge the consensus, then you can star the debate.
It is time to put up or shut up
-- (New York City - March 3, 2008)--The co-authors of the best-seller Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1,500 Years today released a second list of more than 400 peer-reviewed scientists who’ve recently found physical evidence of the long, natural climate cycle--bringing the total of such authors to more than 700. --
Go to the Inhofe EPW Press Blog and you will find dozens of peer-reviewed studies and their links.
There you go cupcake...have at it...a new book to read and hours and hours of surfing...no thanks necessary.
Wesley wrote:
>>Go to the Inhofe EPW Press Blog and you will find dozens of peer-reviewed studies and their links.
First, the petition you linked to is the infamous Oregon petition--and you didn't even know it. It is a bogus petiton, exactly as I said. You can add as many names as you want; it won't change it from being fraudalent.
But more to the point: I asked to to show peer reviewed studies that refute global warming. Not surprisingly, you did not. You merely said to look at the Inhofe website. Sorry, I've already looked at it in the past. Inhofe has been called "the serial abuser" of science. His website *claimed* to show peer-reviewed studies refuting global warming. They do not.
So again: My link shows that there are 696 studies supporting global warming. Show me the science that refutes this. I am asking for science, not hype and insults (like "cupcake"). Every time I have issued this challenge in the past, no one has ever been able to meet it. That is because the *science* backs up my position, which is why intelligent people like Al Gore know Global warming as real and a threat.
Put up or shut up, Wesley.
Weslely wrote:
>>(New York City - March 3, 2008)--The co-authors of the best-seller Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1,500 Years today released a second list of more than 400 peer-reviewed scientists who’ve recently found physical evidence of the long, natural climate cycle--bringing the total of such authors to more than 700.
My bad. I just should have assumed you were being more dishonest and misleading than you were. I thought you were talking about the original petition that you mentioned in your first post. Instead, after I showed your initial petition to be fraudelent (and pointed out you didn't even know when it was published and what it was), you simply posted another petition, one that has nothing to do with the original.
Like I said, the deniers of global warming adhere to their religion like fundamentalists to the belief that the earth was created in six days. That is why again I am demanding that you show the *science,* the peer-reviewed articles that refute the mass of evidence for global warming. Otherwise you will just post BS for hours on end.
You are referring to the Oreskes article in Science, yet another embarrassment for that once proud journal. Obviously you have not ever tried to reproduce Naomi Oreskes results using the methods described in her paper.
"That hypothesis was tested by analyzing 928 abstracts, published in refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, and listed in the ISI database with the keywords "climate change""
If one actually does this search in the Thomsen ISI database for the interval specified, it will reveal more than 928 papers. Clearly Oreskes ruled out at least some papers meeting the search criteria. Yet if you read Oreskes methods, no where does she describe criteria for excluding publications matching her search expression. This fact by itself discredits Oreskes' assessment. Other researchers got numbers of hits varying from 929 to 1117. I have access to the Thomsen Web of Science myself. I see 929. I must doubt the 1117 number unless different search criteria were used. But .... Not all of these are peer reviewed papers although they might have appeared in a peer-reviewed journal. Some are editorials, essays, and articles. Consequently, not all of them have abstracts. Note that Oreskes says she 'analyzed abstracts'. How do you analyze the abstract of a work which does not have an abstract? Another interesting point is the use of Thomsen-ISI in the first place. It is by subscription only. There are many other services that could be used, many of them free. This link identifies numerous such.
Moreover, her criteria for scoring the published content are very subjective. Her examination of each tract was confined to its abstract and no more. She was the sole evaluator, and has no more science training than a BS degree in Geology. Her advanced degree is in History of Science. Oreskes CV. This science background is less than literally thousands of the signers of the latest OISM petition, whom you and other ignorant liberals roundly condemn as lacking expertise in the field of climatology. It appears your star evaluator in this case has no better credentials than the vast majority of the OISM signers and is not as well trained in science as many.
This article appeared online last year discussing the Oreskes paper and some of its critics. It paints a very different picture than Oreskes. Either Oreskes is wrong, there has been a huge shift in scientific opinion since 2003, or Schulte is wrong. I am inclined to think the opinion has changed or at least the willingness to express an opinion has changed, because the Schulte study reflects what I know my peers think about Anthropogenic Global Warming.
You are a SAD little man NL. Give it up, linking to accuweather.com doesn't cut it.
Get a real "Scientific" journal link somewhere and you might have some credibility.
"Since the human-caused global warming hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially important in evaluating this hypothesis."--Wesley
That is an utterly false assertion. It is observable that so-called Greenhouse gases absorb infrared light that would otherwise escape into space. It is demonstratable in labs - contrary to your dubious assertions.
It is not unreasonable to conclude that the more these Greenhouse gases are produced in relation to human activity - above and beyond natural production, will likely correspond to higher temperatures than there would be without those Greenhouse gases present- which is Global Warming Theory in a nutshell. Your assertions - apparently from Worldnutdaily are ridiculous. I thought you had more sense than to quote from them.
-- from Worldnutdaily are ridiculous -- openmind
Worldnetdaily does not perform peer-reviews...they report the existence of those studies...if you're open-minded enough to look for yourself.
-- A new analysis of peer-reviewed literature reveals that more than 500 scientists have published evidence refuting at least one element of current man-made global warming scares. -- The Earth Times Sep07
It matters little to me if you choose to ignore the anti-GW science...but the days are long gone when global warming alarmists...with fingers in their ears and eyes closed and visions of Al Gore dancing in their heads...could hide behind the "no peer-reviewed" studies smoke screen.
Wesely wrote:
>>A new analysis of peer-reviewed literature reveals that more than 500 scientists have published evidence refuting at least one element of current man-made global warming scares. -- The Earth Times Sep07
Ugh! Again, Wesley, I am asking you to put up or shut up. It is really simple. There are over 600 peer-reviewed studies supporting global warming. Where is the science that refutes it?
Nowhere.
Your BS makes it sound as if such peer-reviewed science exists. It doesn't. It merely states that peer-reviewed scientists present arguments. But none of these arguments themselves are peer-reviewed. In other words, a biologist can present a peer-reviewed paper on the structure of a cell, so he is peer-reviewed. He can then go on to spout off some garbage about how the earth is not heating up, but he has no science to support his view. These are the 500 scientist you are talking about.
Or, consider that the famous astronomer Kepler's observations paved the way for Galileo's theories. But Kepler also believed the heavenly bodies made music. You see, in the first case, Kepler's work is accepeted because it passes the scientific method; his second belief is considered ludicrous.
There simply is no peer-reviewed science that refutes global warming.
Again, Wesley, put up or shut up.
Wesley,
I personally don't care about WorldNutDaily or what they are reporting on. I am skeptical of GW theory and the deniers.
What I do find interesting is that I pointed out a blatant falsehood in your post right off the bat. No response?
FMP:
This statement in your linked article shows the bias of the authors:
"Some corporations whose revenues might be adversely affected by controls on carbon dioxide emissions have also alleged major uncertainties in the science"
I know you won't see it that way, because it fits with your own bias.
Goodfellas wrote:
>>I know you won't see it that way, because it fits with your own bias.
Yes, I won't see it that way, because it is not there. Did you happen to notice that all three publicans did a rudimentary check on the signatures, and even this rudimentary check revealed major flaws, such as fake names, names that were repeated, and scientists who didn't have their P.h.D.s?
But I really couldn't care less if every signature checked out. Science is not conducted by petitions. The science is on our side. Show me the science--the peer-reviewed studies--that refute the consensus on global warming.
FMP,
No...I don't have peer reviewed papers to show you.
But why are you so against any debate on the issue. Do you at least acknowledge the climate change could be part of the natural cycle of the earth? Do you really think that switching to those goofy spiral light bulbs will save the planet?
It seems that you, Al Gore (is he a peer-reviewed scientist?) and the IPCC are trying to make the science fit the agenda, which is ultimately wealth redistribution and socialism. The UN was WRONG about the AIDS epidemic, and they're wrong about global warming...Time will tell.
Goodfellas wrote:
>>No...I don't have peer reviewed papers to show you.
And then wrote:
>>But why are you so against any debate on the issue.
You see, you contradict yourself. I accept debate. But I won't the debate to be real and healthy. You want to spread a bunch of BS. If you want a real debate, then you present the best science you can offer; our side will do the same. And when that happens, guess what? There is no debate, because your side does not have any science.
Instead, you have hype, and your post shows it. You write "IPCC are trying to make the science fit the agenda, which is ultimately wealth redistribution and socialism." How typical! Our side presents science, and your side answers with a smear. Global warming has nothing to do with socialism or any other agenda. It has to do with the best science in the world. I know you right wing reactionaries would rather thrown around terms like socialism and wealth distribution, but that is not science.
Put up or shut up. I'm not falling for your stupid rhetoric.
"But I really couldn't care less if every signature checked out. Science is not conducted by petitions."
FMP,
re-read my post. I never mentioned the petition.
could you explain the "bias" in the statement that major corporations whose profits could be affected have raised doubts about global warming? it's a fact that exxon has contributed money to groups like the competitive enterprise institute which question whether increased carbon dioxide can cause warming. where is the bias?
http://cei.org/pages/co2.cfm
Would you object to a reporter mentioning that all (or just about all) of the "science" that battled the medical community with regard to cigarettes being "dangerous" was funded by interests directly related to the sale and/or promotion of tobacco?
Do you think the reader should at least have that information so they can decide for themselves whether cigarettes are or aren't bad for them?
Been there Wesly, not an impressive group. Other than the effort to present so many people whose work might intersect the Climitalogical field. Few climatologists. Most just disagree on a detail or two. With dubious credentials to do so in many cases.
As a true believer of the church of golbal warming denial. I don't see you ever admiting its exsistence. There is no evidence supporting it that you'll ever believe. On the other foot who have you convinced here, that wasn't already in agreement with your position?
Ewestone wrote:
>>As a true believer of the church of golbal warming denial.
Yes, that is exactly the position that the deniers argue from, one of religion. They already know that the earth is not heating up, so they do a superficial search on the internet and find bogus crap to support their point of view. And there is tons out there, so they just keep posting all night. That is why I demand that the deniers meet the same level of evidence to support their position as the other side. They never can, thought. (Hint, Wesley: that is why global warming is called a consensus.)
Wesley was called away from the burg where he usually posts; it has been melting slowly but he's getting a petition to declare it just as frozen as ever.
Funny,
We've been around this before. When presented with peer reviewed articles in the past you simply dismiss them as not being peer reviewed. But this is a minor point.
The issue as I see it is whether GW is man made or not. I don't think too many argue here that there is not GW.
There is religious fervor on both sides. Many on the left believe with religious vigor the MMGW claim. Many on the right simply disbelieve the dire forecasts of impending doom that comes from the left. :-)
For me, whether GW is man-made or simply natural, does not matter. Reducing one's carbon footprint means conservation of resources. I think conservation is a very good thing for a variety of reasons. It is amazing to me how much my family alone is able to recycle since we put our minds to it. (I find it ironic that the free-market is causing people to consider alternatives to carbon based fuels. I know we are grappling with the price of gasoline.)
I'm trying to raise my consciousness regarding "going green". Does anyone recommend any particular book that discusses how families and individuals can participate.
MD,
I have started using the cfls and flourescent lightbulbs. The part that bothers me is the mercury content in them. Isn't that hazzardous?
I also the water off while shaving and showering. I've replaced windows and have a ton of insulation in my attic. I now turn off my computer at night.
I would ride a bike to work except I have about a mile on a very busy two lane highway with little or no shoulder and two bridges with no extra room. As much as I am in favor of conservation, I don't want to be killed riding a bike to work by someone yacking on their cell.
Next up for me is a programmable thermostat. After that, replacing old appliances with energy star newer machines.
I screwed up and bought a full size truck back when gas was $2.50 a gallon.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions.
AA wrote:
>>We've been around this before. When presented with peer reviewed articles in the past you simply dismiss them as not being peer reviewed. But this is a minor point.
No, I don't. You don't actually present the papers. You think you do, but you don't. See the Oreskes study I linked to earlier. That is a study on all the science on the issue. Since then, Oreskes study has only been strengthed. The science is not there, AA. Period.
>>There is religious fervor on both sides. Many on the left believe with religious vigor the MMGW claim. Many on the right simply disbelieve the dire forecasts of impending doom that comes from the left. :-)
Sorry, AA, but I'm not accepting your nonsense. Again, the science is on our side. The consensus is that GW is both happening and man-made. It is that simple. And it is your side that sticks to its beliefs with religious fervor. After all, who is bringing up the peer-reviewed science? (me). Who is throwing around terms like "religous vigour?" (youl).
I know. It is always easier to resort to rhetoric when you don't have the facts on your side.
I present the same challenge to you.
Show us the *science.*
Put up or shut up.
Funny,
A quick internet search will find volumes of peer reviewed papers questioning MMGW. Time to move on.
Pielke Sr., R.A. J. Nielsen-Gammon, C. Davey, J. Angel, O. Bliss, N. Doesken, M. Cai., S. Fall, D. Niyogi, K. Gallo, R. Hale, K.G. Hubbard, X. Lin, H. Li, and S. Raman, 2007: Documentation of uncertainties and biases associated with surface temperature measurement sites for climate change assessment. Bull. Amer. Meteor. Soc., 88:6, 913-928.
Pielke Sr., R.A., C. Davey, D. Niyogi, S. Fall, J. Steinweg-Woods, K. Hubbard, X. Lin, M. Cai, Y.-K. Lim, H. Li, J. Nielsen-Gammon, K. Gallo, R. Hale, R. Mahmood, S. Foster, R.T. McNider, and P. Blanken, 2007: Unresolved issues with the assessment of multi-decadal global land surface temperature trends. J. Geophys. Res., 112, D24S08, doi:10.1029/2006JD008229.
Also I found a list of 250 peer reviewed articles. Here is a sample.
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
(Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Volume 12, Number 3, 2007)
- Arthur B. Robinson, Noah E. Robinson, Willie Soon
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
(Climate Research, Vol. 13, Pg. 149–164, October 26 1999)
- Arthur B. Robinson, Zachary W. Robinson, Willie Soon, Sallie L. Baliunas
Are observed changes in the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere really dangerous?
(Bulletin of Canadian Petroleum Geology,v. 50, no. 2, p. 297-327, June 2002)
- C. R. de Freitas
Can increasing carbon dioxide cause climate change?
(Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 94, pp. 8335-8342, August 1997)
- Richard S. Lindzen
Can we believe in high climate sensitivity?
(arXiv:physics/0612094v1, Dec 11 2006)
- J. D. Annan, J. C. Hargreaves
Climate change: Conflict of observational science, theory, and politics
(AAPG Bulletin, Vol. 88, no9, pp. 1211-1220, 2004)
- Lee C. Gerhard
- Climate change: Conflict of observational science, theory, and politics: Reply
(AAPG Bulletin, v. 90, no. 3, p. 409-412, March 2006)
- Lee C. Gerhard
Climate change in the Arctic and its empirical diagnostics
(Energy & Environment, Volume 10, Number 5, pp. 469-482, September 1999)
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Climate Change Re-examined
(Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 21, No. 4, pp. 723–749, 2007)
- Joel M. Kauffman
CO2-induced global warming: a skeptic’s view of potential climate change
(Climate Research, Vol. 10: 69–82, 1998)
- Sherwood B. Idso
Crystal balls, virtual realities and 'storylines'
(Energy & Environment, Volume 12, Number 4, pp. 343-349, July 2001)
- R.S. Courtney
Dangerous global warming remains unproven
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Number 1, pp. 167-169, January 2007)
- R.M. Carter
Does CO2 really drive global warming?
(Energy & Environment, Volume 12, Number 4, pp. 351-355, July 2001)
- R.H. Essenhigh
Does human activity widen the tropics?
(arXiv:0803.1959v1, Mar 13 2008)
- Katya Georgieva, Boian Kirov
Earth's rising atmospheric CO2 concentration: Impacts on the biosphere
(Energy & Environment, Volume 12, Number 4, pp. 287-310, July 2001)
- C.D. Idso
Evidence for "publication Bias" Concerning Global Warming in Science and Nature
(Energy & Environment, Volume 19, Number 2, pp. 287-301, March 2008)
- Patrick J. Michaels
Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics
(Physics, arXiv:0707.1161)
- Gerhard Gerlich, Ralf D. Tscheuschner
Global Warming
(Progress in Physical Geography, 27, 448-455, 2003)
- W. Soon, S. L. Baliunas
Global Warming: The Social Construction of A Quasi-Reality?
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Number 6, pp. 805-813, November 2007)
- Dennis Ambler
Global warming and the mining of oceanic methane hydrate
(Topics in Catalysis, Volume 32, Numbers 3-4, pp. 95-99, March 2005)
- Chung-Chieng Lai, David Dietrich, Malcolm Bowman
Global Warming: Forecasts by Scientists Versus Scientific Forecasts
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Numbers 7-8, pp. 997-1021, December 2007)
- Keston C. Green, J. Scott Armstrong
Global Warming: Myth or Reality? The Actual Evolution of the Weather Dynamics
(Energy & Environment, Volume 14, Numbers 2-3, pp. 297-322, May 2003)
- M. Leroux
Global Warming: the Sacrificial Temptation
(arXiv:0803.1239v1, Mar 10 2008)
- Serge Galam
Global warming: What does the data tell us?
(arXiv:physics/0210095v1, Oct 23 2002)
- E. X. Alban, B. Hoeneisen
Human Contribution to Climate Change Remains Questionable
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- S. Fred Singer
Industrial CO2 emissions as a proxy for anthropogenic influence on lower tropospheric temperature trends
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Implications of the Secondary Role of Carbon Dioxide and Methane Forcing in Climate Change: Past, Present, and Future
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Is a Richer-but-warmer World Better than Poorer-but-cooler Worlds?
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- Indur M. Goklany
Methodology and Results of Calculating Central California Surface Temperature Trends: Evidence of Human-Induced Climate Change?
(Journal of Climate, Volume: 19 Issue: 4, February 2006)
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Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties
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(Climate Research, Vol. 24: 93–94, 2003)
- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier
On global forces of nature driving the Earth's climate. Are humans involved?
(Environmental Geology, Volume 50, Number 6, August 2006)
- L. F. Khilyuk and G. V. Chilingar
Phanerozoic Climatic Zones and Paleogeography with a Consideration of Atmospheric CO2 Levels
(Paleontological Journal, 2: 3-11, 2003)
- A. J. Boucot, Chen Xu, C. R. Scotese
Quantifying the influence of anthropogenic surface processes and inhomogeneities on gridded global climate data
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 112, D24S09, 2007)
- Ross R. McKitrick, Patrick J. Michaels
Quantitative implications of the secondary role of carbon dioxide climate forcing in the past glacial-interglacial cycles for the likely future climatic impacts of anthropogenic greenhouse-gas forcings
(arXiv:0707.1276, July 2007)
- Soon, Willie
Scientific Consensus on Climate Change?
(Energy & Environment, Volume 19, Number 2, pp. 281-286, March 2008)
- Klaus-Martin Schulte
Statistical analysis does not support a human influence on climate
(Energy & Environment, Volume 13, Number 3, pp. 329-331, July 2002)
- S. Fred Singer
Temperature trends in the lower atmosphere
(Energy & Environment, Volume 17, Number 5, pp. 707-714, September 2006)
- Vincent Gray
The Carbon dioxide thermometer and the cause of global warming
(Energy & Environment, Volume 10, Number 1, pp. 1-18, January 1999)
- N. Calder
The continuing search for an anthropogenic climate change signal: Limitations of correlation-based approaches
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 24, No. 18, Pages 2319–2322, 1997)
- David R. Legates, Robert E. Davis
The "Greenhouse Effect" as a Function of Atmospheric Mass
(Energy & Environment, Volume 14, Numbers 2-3, pp. 351-356, 1 May 2003)
- H. Jelbring
The Interaction of Climate Change and the Carbon Dioxide Cycle
(Energy & Environment, Volume 16, Number 2, pp. 217-238, March 2005)
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The IPCC: Structure, Processes and Politics Climate Change - the Failure of Science
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The UN IPCC's Artful Bias: Summary of Findings: Glaring Omissions, False Confidence and Misleading Statistics in the Summary for Policymakers
(Energy & Environment, Volume 13, Number 3, pp. 311-328, July 2002)
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"The Wernerian syndrome"; aspects of global climate change; an analysis of assumptions, data, and conclusions
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Uncertainties in assessing global warming during the 20th century: disagreement between key data sources
(Energy & Environment, Volume 17, Number 5, pp. 685-706, September 2006)
- Maxim Ogurtsov, Markus Lindholm
AA,
An awesome list of references. The lack of response from the usual suspects in here is deafening.
I will read them all...thanks
there were 19 minutes between the posting of that list and your comment and you see that as a "defeaning silence". maybe it's just possible that not that many people happened to see it at that time, much less read them. of course, why you want to read them is another question. you're already declared it proof positive.
AA,
I love how you throw up this list and expect no one to read any of your links. You never learn do you?
None of your links are to peer reviewed papers. None of your links regard research that debunks Global Warming.
Try reading what you link to. I did!
You are as dumb or dishonest as ever!
Those publications are mostly from magazines like Energy and Environment. Read about them in Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_and_Environment
Here is another good article on them here: http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/aug/policy/pt_skeptics.html
I recognize a few of the journals you cited, but their article titles aren't really the exciting ones.
Most of those citations are from publications that are merely thinly-disguised advocacy publications that aren't even listed in the . Not serious peer-reviewed journals like Science or Nature. You've got to be kidding me.
Sorry. I forgot to finish a sentence above.
The citations you presented mostly aren't even listed in the ISI's Journal Citation Reports indexing service for academic journals.
Joe Bastardi: Another oil company shill?
Follow the link...read the letter. He's right
A frikkin' weatherman who thinks that scientific questions should be resolved with a debate? Not even close to right.
Debates are not won by the side that has the best evidence of the truth, they are won by the side that best persuades the audience. There is plenty of scientific study to still be done in this area, that's true, but to listen to the people who keep saying nothing more than "Everything is fine, there's nothing we can do, just learn to live whatever changes may happen in the future, it's not our fault," is insane. Denialists appeal to emotion, not logic. They use marketing, not science.
This isn't a debate, per se, but one of reviewing the information, and seeing if it proves right.
Also, global warming is NOT a partisan issue, but is only seen as partisan by the right, mostly because Al Gore works on it. That's essentially the only reason.
Mags,
Part of the problem with Al Gore is that he does not seem to practice what he preaches.
"Stated without proof, as is everything AA posts."- Easy to refute wingnuts
ETRW, This article by Jake Tapper is what AA is referring to. Excerpt: "Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy."
This is even more ironic: Bush vs Gore on who has the 'greener' house.
Excerpt: "As someone who has personally taken steps to reduce my own electricity usage by switching out lightbulbs, using a programmable thermostat and switching to Green Mountain Energy for my electricity, I can say that I am personally disappointed.Sure, all offsets his carbon usage, but can’t he help set a better example for us? Why wouldn’t he take some steps to really green up his house, since he obviously has the money for it. Maybe he should call George W, and ask for his advice!"
gore owns a 70 year old house and had to get special approval from his neighborhood association to install solar panels. he's also done other numerous upgrades. see the link. the idea that bush cares more about green issues is laughable.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/18/america/NA-GEN-US-Al-Gore-Solar-Panels.php
MeFirst,
Once again you need to contort, manipulate and spin the truth to make it fit your premise.
The truth is, Gore is a hypocrite and believes he is above his own recommendations.
Hey Goodfella,
What are you talking about? You present a Weatherman who has no science to back up his claims.
What does that mean?
Are you as stupid or dishonest as AA?
"Are you as stupid or dishonest as AA?"- skeptical
So I am stupid AND a liar? You left out fat....
Once again, the true colors of the close-minded left come through. Rather thandiscuss an issue, you feel the need to resort to petty name-calling. Very sad.
Goodfella,
If there was something to discuss, I would be happy to discuss it. You posted something stupid, so either you are stupid and believe it or you don't believe it and posted because you are dishonest.
There are no other options. This isn't a matter of opinion.
If you want to have a discussion, let's discuss what to do about global warming. What is the best way to reduce it's effects and maintain our economy.
To deny it's existence is simply stupid!