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Fox & Friends baselessly claimed Bill Clinton took "a swipe at John McCain," falsely suggested his and Clark's comments part of Obama attack strategy

July 08, 2008 5:54 pm ET

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SUMMARY: Three Fox & Friends co-hosts repeatedly asserted that former President Bill Clinton recently "attack[ed]" Sen. John McCain's "selfless heroism at the Hanoi Hilton," in Andrew Napolitano's words, and two of the hosts -- Napolitano and Gretchen Carlson -- falsely suggested that Clinton's statement and recent comments by retired Gen. Wesley Clark were part of a coordinated effort by Sen. Barack Obama's campaign to "attack" McCain's service. But the Fox & Friends co-hosts provided no evidence that Clinton's comments were intended to refer to McCain; nor did they provide the context of those remarks.

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On the July 8 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends, co-hosts Steve Doocy, Gretchen Carlson, and Andrew Napolitano repeatedly asserted that former President Bill Clinton recently "attack[ed]" Sen. John McCain's "selfless heroism at the Hanoi Hilton," in Napolitano's words, and Napolitano and Carlson also falsely suggested that Clinton's statement and recent comments by retired Gen. Wesley Clark were part of a coordinated effort by Sen. Barack Obama's campaign to "attack" McCain's service. Clinton made the remarks in question on July 5 at the Aspen Ideas Festival while discussing what former South African President Nelson Mandela means to him. But the Fox & Friends co-hosts provided no evidence that Clinton's comments were intended to refer to McCain; nor did they provide the context of those remarks. Moreover, as Media Matters for America has repeatedly noted, Clark did not attack McCain's Vietnam War record during his June 29 interview on CBS' Face the Nation. Further undermining the suggestion by Napolitano and Carlson that Clark's remarks were evidence of, in Carlson's words, "a strategy by the Barack Obama campaign," Clark has been saying for months that McCain's military service does not necessarily make him qualified to be president, including while he was speaking on behalf of Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.

During two segments and an interview with McCain, Carlson read only the portion of Clinton's comments in which he said, "[I]f you know anybody that was ever a POW for any length of time, you will see that you go along for months or maybe even years, and then something will happen, it'll trigger all those bad dreams, and they'll come back." During Clinton's Aspen "conversation," moderator Jane Wales said to Clinton, "Nelson Mandela turns 90 in a couple of weeks. He is someone with whom you've been extremely close over the years. I wanted you to say a word about what he has meant, not only to South Africa, to Africa, to the world, but also to say something about what he's meant to you personally." During his five minute and 30 second response -- in which McCain was never mentioned -- Clinton asserted that Mandela "show[ed] us all how to live, that's the thing he meant the most to me about." He compared Mandela's experience -- as a prisoner for 27 years after leading a resistance movement against the South African apartheid government -- to that of a POW, and after making the statement Carlson read, said of Mandela: "That's the thing that makes his life so monumental. It's not like all that stuff went away, but he disciplined himself, and his mind and his heart and his spirit, to always work to constantly overcome it every day."

From Clinton's July 5 remarks at the Aspen Ideas Festival [portion Carlson read bolded]:

WALES: Nelson Mandela turns 90 in a couple of weeks. He is someone with whom you've been extremely close over the years. I wanted you to say a word about what he has meant, not only to South Africa, to Africa, to the world, but also to say something about what he's meant to you personally.

CLINTON: Well, I think the importance of his life for all of us is that first of all, he proved that -- he really did give up his freedom, almost a full third of his life, so that everybody could be free, including his oppressors. He paid as high a price as you can pay without getting killed for it to prove that freedom has to be a universal commodity. And then he governed in a way that was consistent with what he said.

Everybody knows, for example, that he invited his jailers to his inauguration. Not as many people know that he put the leaders of all the groups that oppressed him into his cabinet. And keep in mind, he was elected with two-thirds of the vote, so he did not have to do that. There is no constitutional system in the world that would have required him to do it. He did it because he knew that the country could not govern without the skills and knowledge and the psychological balance that would be provided by doing that. So he did that. That's the first thing he did.

The second thing he did, which is very important in the [Robert] Mugabe case, is to show us that you don't have to be in office to do public service. You can do much public good as a private citizen. And your ability to do it is enhanced if you leave office as required by the laws of your country with good grace, and then you use the stature you acquired from having held the job to try to continue to be of public service. And he did it in his later years, when no one would have blamed him if he had retreated to that amazing game preserve he has up -- that a friend of his built him a house in in northern South Africa.

And the third thing he did was to show us all how to live, that's the thing he meant the most to me about. I mean, he just -- you know, he really did realize that -- if you read his memoirs -- I wrote about this in my book, but he said -- I ask him -- I told him that the day he was released for the last time, and you may all remember they -- it was beautifully staged for television, they way it was on an early Sunday morning in the United States. And he walked -- he took last -- one long last walk down a dusty road, went through a gate, and then got in the car and rode away.

I said to him, "Now, tell me the truth." I said, "I know you're a great man, but you're also a great politician. And you did the right thing getting all those people in your government, but when you were taking those last steps, didn't you really relive those 27 years, and didn't you hate them again?" He said, "Sure, I did." It's great, you know, you reach a certain age and you're not running for anything, you can pretty well say what you want.

And he said, "Sure, I did. For a moment, I did." He said, "I felt anger and hatred and fear. And I realized that if I kept hating them once I got in that car and got through the gate, I would still be in prison. So, I let it go, 'cause I wanted to be free." There is a --

[applause]

Every living soul on the planet has some often highly justified anger. Everybody. And just learning that you have to practice -- and by the way, I said this at his birthday. I'm probably one of the few people who's actually seen him mad on more than one occasion. You know, it's just like, if you know anybody that was ever a POW for any length of time, you will see that you go along for months or maybe even years, and then something will happen, it'll trigger all those bad dreams, and they'll come back, and it may not last 30 seconds. That's the thing that makes his life so monumental. It's not like all that stuff went away, but he disciplined himself, and his mind and his heart and his spirit, to always work to constantly overcome it every day.

And I think, in some ways, when you look at how we're gonna -- what will happen in the aftermath of Mugabe's going? There will be an enormous -- let's suppose the best of all worlds happened, and he woke up tomorrow and he says, "I've had a terrible attack of conscience. I'm tired of this general running me. I don't care how old I am. I have some good sense left. I'm out of here. Goodbye. I love my country. I wish you well." Think of all the people on the other side who would be tempted to go kill other people. I mean, this is a universal lesson that all of us have to keep struggling with in our lives.

So I think he proved freedom has to be a universal commodity, he served with enormous distinction out of office as well as in, and he taught us a lot about how all of us should be trying to live. And that's -- those three things are why I think he's -- he, along with [former Israeli prime minister] Yitzhak Rabin, are the two most remarkable people I ever knew.

During her interview with McCain, Carlson again quoted Clinton as saying only, "It's like you know anyone who's ever been a POW for any length of time, you will see that they go along for months or even years, and then something will happen that will trigger all those bad dreams," and did not note that his statement came during a discussion of Mandela. Carlson later asked McCain: "[D]oes it appear that this is a strategy by the Barack Obama campaign? Last week, it was Wesley Clark, and there were others before that as well. This week, it's Bill Clinton. They seem to be attacking your strongest point."

During the first Fox & Friends segment, Doocy asserted that Clinton "was trying to make a compliment about Nelson Mandela. He was talking about Nelson Mandela, and suddenly -- kind of in the middle, in an awkward spot, it does appear that he was taking a swipe at John McCain." Carlson said that "I don't know if he's an expert on that necessarily, because he was not a POW, and I'm not sure if he has any close friends who were." Later, Napolitano asked, "Is this the beginning or is this the continuation? It started a week ago with Wes Clark, of the Democrats, going at John McCain's strongest and most heroic moments and saying, 'Big deal.' " In response, Carlson asserted that "they're saying it's dangerous, that that anger -- because keep in mind that also the rumors about John McCain is that this deep-seated anger can percolate from time to time -- and then it comes to the surface."

Doocy went on to say of Clinton, "I'll tell you one thing that he's done is he's smeared a whole generation of heroes -- people who spent time -- he's not just talking -- he didn't say John McCain per se, he said POWs. There were a lot of guys who were locked up over there." He added: "And you know, the thing about it is, what he's saying is, 'Be careful with these guys, because you never know when they're going to snap.' That's exactly what he said."

During the second Fox & Friends segment, Doocy asserted of Clinton, "[I]n the midst of a speech out in Aspen, he was talking about Nelson Mandela -- who was of course imprisoned for many, many years, and out of nowhere, he said this quote -- and see if you think this looks like a swipe against John McCain." Napolitano asserted that Clinton was "obviously talking about John McCain, and he's suggesting, 'Hey, before you vote for John McCain, consider this is why he has a temper.' This is Doctor Clinton's analysis -- I'm kidding of course, calling him Doctor Clinton -- of John McCain's psyche. That anger builds up within people who are ex-POWs and it can come out at a time that they least expect it." Napolitano continued: "This is yet again an attack by a major Democrat on the perceived strongest part of John McCain's background, his utter selfless heroism at the Hanoi Hilton." Carlson responded, "And the amazing thing is that John McCain rarely speaks about it." In fact, as Media Matters for America has documented, McCain has repeatedly highlighted his experience as a POW, even as he and the media have promoted the notion that he is reluctant to do so. Indeed, on the morning of July 8, the McCain campaign released a new television ad, "Love," in which a narrator says: "John McCain: Shot down. Bayoneted. Tortured. Offered early release, he said, 'No.' He'd sworn an oath." The ad features footage from McCain's time as a POW.

From the July 8 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:

CARLSON: All right, we want to talk to you about Bill Clinton, because he's back in political action.

NAPOLITANO: He sure is.

CARLSON: I kind of missed Bubba for a while.

NAPOLITANO: Right.

CARLSON: He was over in Europe, you know, when Hillary, his wife, and Barack Obama had that whole unity thing, and we didn't see very much of him. And now he was out in Aspen, Colorado, giving a speech there. Now, we don't know exactly what predicated these comments, but he had some severe comments about POWs.

DOOCY: Well, we know he was talking -- he was trying to make a compliment about Nelson Mandela.

CARLSON: Oh, OK.

DOOCY: He was talking about Nelson Mandela, and suddenly -- kind of in the middle, in an awkward spot, it does appear that he was taking a swipe at John McCain. And keep in mind, he has said, "Look, I'm not running for anything. So I can say pretty much anything I want to." And he said something that, today, people are saying he really should not have said that.

NAPOLITANO: Well, Nelson Mandela was locked up for 20 years. John McCain was locked up for five years. And Bill Clinton says, "You know what happens to these people when they're locked up like that, when they're prisoners? Suddenly, years later, the anger comes out of them. And you've got to watch for that." So, who was he talking about?

DOOCY: Yeah. Exactly right.

CARLSON: Well, I don't know if he's an expert on that necessarily, because he was not a POW, and I'm not sure if he has any close friends who were.

However, this is the direct quote. Clinton said: "If you know anybody who was a POW for any length of time, you will see, you go along for months or maybe even years, and then something will happen and it will trigger all those bad dreams and it will come back."

NAPOLITANO: Is this the beginning or is this the continuation? It started a week ago with Wes Clark, of the Democrats, going at John McCain's strongest and most heroic moments and saying, "Big deal."

DOOCY: Yeah.

NAPOLITANO: Is that what they're up to here?

CARLSON: Well, they're saying more than big deal here, Judge.

NAPOLITANO: They're saying it's dangerous.

CARLSON: They're -- they're saying it's dangerous, that that anger -- because keep in mind that also the rumors about John McCain is that this deep-seated anger can percolate from time to time --

DOOCY: Hmm-mm.

NAPOLITANO: Right.

CARLSON: -- and then it comes to the surface. The interesting thing is, a lot of Republicans are waiting for some of that anger to come to the surface to actually see --

NAPOLITANO: Sure.

CARLSON: -- that he's in this for a fight.

DOOCY: So, he has very -- was it an accident? Was it intentional? Did he intentionally plant the little seed right out there? I'll tell you one thing that he's done is he's smeared a whole generation of heroes -- people who spent time -- he's not just talking -- he didn't say John McCain per se, he said POWs. There were a lot of guys who were locked up over there.

NAPOLITANO: Oh, absolutely.

DOOCY: And you know, the thing about it is, what he's saying is, "Be careful with these guys, because you never know when they're going to snap."

CARLSON: Yeah. As opposed --

DOOCY: That's exactly what he said.

CARLSON: As opposed to people who have never served in the military.

NAPOLITANO: Like him.

CARLSON: You know -- right. And I think it's very interesting to be an expert about something that you were never a part of.

NAPOLITANO: It's an odd thing for them to say, unless, each week, they're going to come out with something attacking John McCain's military career and sufferings for the country and, this week, it's Bill.

CARLSON: We will have to stay tuned, Judge.

[...]

DOOCY: Did you just mention Bill Clinton?

NAPOLITANO: Yes, I did mention Bill Clinton, because I knew what you wanted to talk about, Steve.

DOOCY: Well, he's back at it again. He was out in Colorado, and in the midst of a speech out in Aspen, he was talking about Nelson Mandela --

NAPOLITANO: Right.

DOOCY: -- who was of course imprisoned for many, many years, and out of nowhere, he said this quote -- and see if you think this looks like a swipe against John McCain.

CARLSON: Well, Steve, he says, "It's like if you know someone who's ever a POW for any length of time" -- there it is -- "you will see you go along for months or maybe even years, and then something will happen and it will trigger all those bad dreams and it will all come back." So, who is he talking about?

NAPOLITANO: Well, he's obviously talking about John McCain, and he's suggesting, "Hey, before you vote for John McCain, consider this is why he has a temper." This is Doctor Clinton's analysis -- I'm kidding of course, calling him Doctor Clinton -- of John McCain's psyche. That anger builds up within people who are ex-POWs and it can come out at a time that they least expect it.

CARLSON: Well, a couple of points.

NAPOLITANO: This is yet again an attack by a major Democrat on the perceived strongest part of John McCain's background, his utter selfless heroism at the Hanoi Hilton.

DOOCY: Hmm-mm.

CARLSON: And the amazing thing is that John McCain rarely speaks about it.

NAPOLITANO: Right.

CARLSON: It's not like he's out there bragging about his five-year stay at the Hilton there. In fact, I think a lot of Republicans would like him to talk about it a little bit more. A lot of Republicans would probably like him to get a little bit more anger -- angry and show a little bit more of that temper because they seem to be -- some -- frustrated that he's not willing to take on Barack Obama as some would like him to do.

DOOCY: Well, we asked you an hour ago whether or not you thought this was an intentional swipe or whether it was accidental. You know, did he just want to plant the seed so people would start talking about it?

Overwhelmingly, the emails say it was no accident. This is typical. One guy writes, "I believe that Bill Clinton said was intentional and completely un-American. No one who served in any military service should be criticized or attacked. I think because John McCain was a POW proves that he would be a great president for the U.S. of A."

[...]

CARLSON: I am going to get to that question in a moment, but I do want to get to what appears to be one of the headlines of the day, with regard to something that President Bill Clinton said while he was in Aspen. Here's what he said, Senator. He said: "It's like you know anyone who's ever been a POW for any length of time, you will see that they go along for months or even years, and then something will happen that will trigger all those bad dreams." Your response to that?

McCAIN: [laughs] I don't know where he gets his expertise. Look, that's -- I don't know how to respond to that, except to say that some of the greatest moments of my life was, I had the great honor of serving in the company of heroes and observing a thousand acts of courage and compassion and love, and those that I know best and love most are those I had the honor of being led by and served with, who inspired me to do things I never would have been capable of.

CARLSON: But Senator, does it appear that this is a strategy by the Barack Obama campaign? Last week, it was Wesley Clark, and there were others before that as well. This week, it's Bill Clinton. They seem to be attacking your strongest point.

McCAIN: Well, you know, they can -- whatever they want to do is fine. I think what Americans care about today is keeping their jobs, better life, educating their kids, staying in their homes. Americans are hurting right now. We're talking about the economy this week, and we're going to create jobs. We're going to keep taxes low, and -- difference is Senator Obama wants to raise taxes, I want to keep them low. That's really what the American people are worried about, and that's what we're talking about at the town hall meetings across the country.

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    • Author by tommy (July 08, 2008 6:13 pm ET)
         

      Considering it's Fox News, the presumption would be they would leap to conclusions and it would be against a Democrat and for McCain/Republican.  Expected.

      Considering it's Bill Clinton, the presumption would be every word he utters has about 10 different angles and meanings, and usually political, so a subtle jab at McCain could be the case here. Distinctly possible.

      Grains of salt for both..... 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by clams casino (July 08, 2008 6:18 pm ET)
           
        Clinton clearly was talking about Mandela. Point to anything in his entire speech that even obliquely indicates that he was referring to McCain.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (July 08, 2008 6:21 pm ET)
             

          You again?  Lord, you are obsessed.

          I read between the lines when Bill Clinton speaks, if you don't, that is your business.  He may be referencing McCain, he may not be.  You have your opinion, I have mine.   

          Report Abuse
          • Author by clams casino (July 08, 2008 6:27 pm ET)
               

            Exactly which lines are you reading between? Did you actually read the speech? This isn't a matter of opinion. It's simply a fact that he was speaking about Nelson Mandela, and not John McCain.

            P.S. You should really try a different angle with your ad hominem attacks. For someone who writes hundreds of posts a day here, I don't think you really want to be accusing others of being "obsessed." 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (July 08, 2008 6:33 pm ET)
                 

              I don't troll around looking for you like you do for me.  Others notice it too, so you are a "psycho" as Jeter put it so perfectly, maybe?

              The POW reference, hello?  As I said, if you don't see it, good for you.  We disagree. 

               

              Report Abuse
              • Author by clams casino (July 08, 2008 6:41 pm ET)
                   
                Yeah, it's so tough to find a post of yours on this site. I really have to troll around to find them. In case you hadn't noticed, I call out wingnut b.s. wherever I see it. It's not my fault that you happen to dish it out about 100 times more than anyone else here.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (July 08, 2008 8:30 pm ET)
                   
                notice how tommy puts bill clinton in the same league with faux?  "grains of salt for both."    except what faux did was their typical selective editing.  maybe they could make bill's nose bigger, and then o'reilly can justify it.  look, they made me purple.  gee, you're not really purple? who would have known?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by clams casino (July 08, 2008 8:40 pm ET)
                     

                  I think Napolitano might be the worst offender as far as misrepresenting Clinton's words here. Notice how he injected the word "anger" into the discussion, when Clinton said nothing of the kind.

                  "And Bill Clinton says, 'You know what happens to these people when they're locked up like that, when they're prisoners? Suddenly, years later, the anger comes out of them. And you've got to watch for that.' So, who was he talking about"

                  And if you look at Clinton's actual quote, he neither said nor implied anything about "anger com[ing] out of them." This is merely projection. Napolitano knows that McCain's temper is a weakness, so he twists Clinton's words to reflect that.

                  Report Abuse
              • Author by onionhead (July 08, 2008 8:44 pm ET)
                   

                When I was reading this article, I thought that the case MMFA made was so open and shut that even you would give them credit for a job well done.  But it appears that you must be colorblind because you see a shade of grey where things are completely black and white. 

                I think "Clams" is just doing what the rest of us do when you make an asinine comment.  So stop with the ad hominems and all the other dirty tricks you pull when you can't win an argument.

                P.S. If you read the excerpt of Clinton's speech "NeonDesert" posted below, it would clear to you that if he was talking about McCain, he was complimenting him. 

                Report Abuse
          • Author by sportsguydave (July 08, 2008 6:32 pm ET)
               
            Get over yourself, Tommy.. :) Nobody is obsessed with you ...
            Report Abuse
            • Author by tommy (July 08, 2008 6:34 pm ET)
                 
              Tell that to my parole officer  ;)
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Governor (July 08, 2008 6:43 pm ET)
                 
              Tell that to Ben & Jerry, the guy's like 10% of their profits.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by juliajayne (July 08, 2008 6:47 pm ET)
                   
                Is that where that extra 25lbs. you've been complaining about came from?
                Report Abuse
          • Author by Governor (July 08, 2008 9:00 pm ET)
               

            I read between the lines when Bill Clinton speaks, if you don't, that is your business.  He may be referencing McCain, he may not be.  You have your opinion, I have mine.  

            Ok, fine... but what does that have to do with your very strange hatred for Nelson Mandela?

            Report Abuse
        • Author by neondesert (July 08, 2008 6:30 pm ET)
             

          Oh, come on.  Just admit he WAS talking about McCain.  Then we can get on to the REAL issue: How bad he hates Obama, apparent when he continued:

          "...and they'll come back, and it may not last 30 seconds. That's the thing that makes his life so monumental. It's not like all that stuff went away, but he disciplined himself, and his mind and his heart and his spirit, to always work to constantly overcome it every day.

          I can't believe how he gushed over how courageous McCain is with his ongoing battle against anger.  Clintons continued mission to sabotage Obamas campaign makes me sick!

          Report Abuse
          • Author by IRONY 101 (July 08, 2008 6:58 pm ET)
               
            F'ing Clintons...I knew thay couldn't be trusted! FOX was right about them all along...   ;>)
            Report Abuse
        • Author by jawill11 (July 09, 2008 9:35 am ET)
             

          Someone asked me the other day, "Where's Mandela?"  Well, Mandela's dead.  Saddam killed him. 

          Sorry.  I can no longer hear that man's name without thinking of that gem from GWB and chuckling.   

          Report Abuse
      • Author by worrierking (July 08, 2008 6:34 pm ET)
           
        Clams, hope you don't mind, but I'd like to ask Tommy the same exact question.

        Clinton clearly was talking about Mandela. Point to anything in his entire speech that even obliquely indicates that he was referring to McCain.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by clams casino (July 08, 2008 6:35 pm ET)
             
          Now you're obsessed with Tommy too?! Apparently Tommy doesn't answer questions, he just asks them.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by tommy (July 08, 2008 6:48 pm ET)
             

          Worrier, I already said it's my innate suspicion where the Clintons are concerned, everything is political and suspect.  It's only my opinion based on their history.  I am not out to convince anyone of it, it is what it is.

          I am not saying I am right, or you are wrong. You're right, there is no proof or direct McCain reference.

          I respect your opinion however, and I am admittedly a Clinton cynic....what can I tell ya? 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by clams casino (July 08, 2008 7:15 pm ET)
               
            So once again we have a perfect illustration of your hypocrisy when it comes to so-called "opinions." Despite a complete lack of anything remotely resembling factual evidence, you can claim that Clinton was referencing McCain based on nothing more than "innate suspicion." Yet when confronted with opinions (or even actual facts) that you disagree with, you repeatedly demand "proof" and then outright reject anything that's put forth as proof.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Brabantio (July 08, 2008 7:57 pm ET)
               

            So Dick Cheney is more trustworthy than Bill Clinton?  Because when you read Cheney's comments, you don't read between the lines.  "If he didn't say it, he didn't say it", remember?

            If there's some sort of basis for this disparity of treatment, then that would be fair.  But Cheney has a history of defending the war in Iraq and making false comments regarding it, so it's not as if you can say it's something inconsistent with his behavior.  So what makes this "innate" for Clinton but unthinkable for Cheney?

            If there's no basis for it, then it's quite clearly just partisan hypocrisy. 

            Report Abuse
          • Author by onionhead (July 09, 2008 12:30 am ET)
               

            "where the Clintons are concerned, everything is political and suspect."--Tommy

            I think you confused Clinton with our current president.  BTW, you sound like one of the "Vince Foster was murdered" crowd.

            I am not the biggest Clinton fan, but the speech in this article shows how wonderful a speaker he is and how he can beautifully capture the struggle and triumph of Mandela's and how he overcame the cruelty of aparteid and peacefully ended it.

            Most of his speeches were like this; please show me some evidence of anything (besides the "I did not have sexual relations...") he said that was political and suspect.

            Report Abuse
        • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (July 08, 2008 7:53 pm ET)
             
          One stalker to a customer, WK! Find your own wingnut!
          Report Abuse
      • Author by IRONY 101 (July 08, 2008 9:43 pm ET)
           

        TOMMY: Considering it's Bill Clinton, the presumption would be...

        Tommy, do you seriously believe that FOX did not have the proper context of Bill's speech...that it was specifically commemorating Nelson Mandela? That FOX was somehow unable to convey to its viewers that Bill's comments were extracted from a speech about Nelson Mandela? Huh...?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by IRONY 101 (July 08, 2008 9:59 pm ET)
             

          Sorry: My post was cut off...

          Why didn't FOX play the whole tape to show the context of Bill's remarks? In order to convey the context that Mandela was wrongfully imprisoned the only thing Bill could equate Mandela's imprisonment to was a POW. What was Bill expected to say; If you've ever know anyone who's been wrongfully imprisoned...

          This is a no brainer. There should be no question about whom Bill was referring. FOX should have played the whole tape.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by clams casino (July 08, 2008 10:04 pm ET)
               
            Apparently, from now on anyone who utters the letters "P.O.W." is referring to McCain. Never mind who they were actually talking about because McCain is the only POW who matters. And never mind that Clinton was actually praising the person he was talking about, because whenever a Democrat says anything about a Republican (even if they weren't actually talking about them) they're "attacking" them.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Governor (July 08, 2008 10:09 pm ET)
                 
              Fox & Tommy is bringing stupid back.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by achrispage6992 (July 09, 2008 8:11 am ET)
                 

              I must agree with you here Clams. It's beyond a stretch to insinuate that Clinton was referring to McCain here. Even if he was it wouldn't even approach what the idiots on Fox and Friends say. I don't think we can hold Clinton to the fire everytime he mentions the words "prisoner of war" as being an attack on McCain.

              Report Abuse
      • Author by open_mind (July 09, 2008 1:01 am ET)
           

        "Considering it's Fox News, the presumption would be they would leap to conclusions and it would be against a Democrat and for McCain/Republican.  Expected."--tommy

        That is exactly why the post is here.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by sportsguydave (July 08, 2008 6:21 pm ET)
         

      Sounds like someone hit a nerve in the McCain camp.

      McSame can always count on his buddies at Fox Noise to rush to his defense ...

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Dem02020 (July 08, 2008 6:22 pm ET)
         

      What a bunch of squawking and clucking this is, about such a simple and obvious truth:

      John McCain's experiences as a Naval Aviator in Vietnam, are not a qualification to command the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps in IRAQ... not even close.

      ...and rather than squawk and cluck, if these hens and chickens would just cite John McCain's qualifications to command the U.S. Army in IRAQ: but no, they react defensively and neurotically and like chickens and hens cry FOUL (FOWL)...

      Their reaction then seems to confirm the other question about John McCain, which is whether he has the emotional stability and the even temperment to command the Military occupation of IRAQ.

      What a sickening display these people make: John McCain has never looked worse, than his people are making him look in this matter: they choose to squawk and cluck like hens, instead of citing the strengths and qualifications of their man... this John McCain, he has so lost his bearings: he looks so uneven and unsteady of mind and heart... he surrounds himself with squawking hens and chickens... this is hardly a way for the man to carry himself in this matter, and hardly the bearing he should be displaying.

      No Confidence.

      Is it too late for the Republicans to realize their terrible mistake, and field another more suitable candidate?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by IRONY 101 (July 08, 2008 6:36 pm ET)
         

      Part of Obama's attack strategy? Why would Bill Clinton be part of a coordinated attack with the Obama campaign when FOX itself has been reporting how Bill Clinton is angry at Barack Obama? Doesn't make a bit of sense to me...

      And, with regrads to the content of what Bill Clinton said, imagine if Barack Obama was the former POW in the race. The Republicans would be having a freakin' field day suggesting he was the Manchurian candidate or was mentally unstable. I'm not impressed by their false outrage..they're scumbags.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by juliajayne (July 08, 2008 6:46 pm ET)
           
        If you're talking about Neon, I think he was being facetious. Unless you're being facetious :-)
        Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne (July 08, 2008 6:48 pm ET)
             
          Oops, misread that. Sorry, I still have the vapors now that Jeter's back.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by IRONY 101 (July 08, 2008 7:01 pm ET)
               

            Admit it...you were probably thinking about me not wearing underwear, weren't you?  ;>)

            PS, I'll bet Bill Clinton has worn Superman underwear at some time in his life...  ;>)

            Report Abuse
            • Author by juliajayne (July 08, 2008 9:58 pm ET)
                 

              Admit it...you were probably thinking about me not wearing underwear, weren't you?  ;>) Irony 101

              You busted me Irony. That was the real cause of my vapors :-0) Are you comin' on to me, Irony? Are you handsome or at least cute (I'll take funny and sweet as well even if you're not George Clooney handsome). Ps. I'm free to flirt now since Jeter has to win me back. But I think he may be a jealous type.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by IRONY 101 (July 08, 2008 10:24 pm ET)
                   
                LOL... Funny you should mention George Clooney because I am often mistaken for him...you know, the dark eyes and boyish charm and all that.  ;>)
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (July 09, 2008 12:37 am ET)
                     

                  Oh no, Irony's the new Jr. High Team flirting partner for JJ, and looks like Clooney too? Yeeesh !  ;0)

                  But back on topic, this issue is settled. Sean Hannity introduced his little think tank with Pat Buchanan tonight  by saying Clinton was obviously talking about McCain, and the two discussed it as fact. That's how they settle these things over at Fox, they just explain to their audience that whatever they say is reality.

                  I don't think I need to mention it, but the tape of Clinton was played without the Mandela reference.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by juliajayne (July 09, 2008 3:20 am ET)
                       
                    Colonel, I hope you've caught on that Irony is not really flirting with me. He's cranking me big time. But I deserve it :-)
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by juliajayne (July 09, 2008 2:18 am ET)
                     

                  OMG, Irony. you did not just say you looked like George Clooney too. LOL. You are really pulling my chain, dude. But thanks for the laugh :-0)

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by IRONY 101 (July 09, 2008 6:57 am ET)
                       
                    Julia, it's not my fault that I was born handsome. Please don't hold that against me.  ;>)
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by juliajayne (July 09, 2008 7:10 am ET)
                         

                      But are you handsome on the inside? I'm purty inside and out.

                      Really, you're messing with me, right? I told the colonel you were not flirting with me, but busting my chops for my romance with you know who. I can imagine people are pretty sick of it by now. But the lad won't see me off forum, so what can be done? I tried.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by IRONY 101 (July 09, 2008 7:40 am ET)
                           

                        But are you handsome on the inside?

                        I would like to think so, Julia, once you get to know me...but it's so hard to get people to look past outward appearances. It's frustrating when people automatically look at you as a sex object when you know you have so much more to give. 

                        BTW, I hear that Jeter really is a swell guy and that he's looking forward to turning his life around when he gets out of prison.  ;>)

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by juliajayne (July 09, 2008 10:33 am ET)
                             

                          BTW, I hear that Jeter really is a swell guy and that he's looking forward to turning his life around when he gets out of prison.  ;>)

                           

                          • - IRONY 101 / Wednesday July 9, 2008 7:40:22 AM

                           

                          Yeah, for him to pass on a sweet dish like me, he'd have to be in prison :-0)

                          Report Abuse
    • Author by universaladdress (July 09, 2008 3:04 am ET)
         
      I'm just struck by how easy and powerful of a speaker Clinton is, and by my awe of Mandela.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (July 09, 2008 9:02 am ET)
         

      You know, this is a grown-up political campaign. If McCain can't withstand even an imagined "swipe" without whining about it, he has no business being President.

      And since when did taking a "swipe" at a person running for president become a terrible thing? I know, IOKIYAR.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by IRONY 101 (July 09, 2008 9:24 am ET)
           
        Aside from the fact that IMO bill Clinton was not taking a swipe at John McCain, isn't it a fact that McCain was treated for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? (I would be concerned if McCain had NOT received such therapy.) Isn't it a component of PTSD that a person has recurring thoughts, even years later, about the episode that precipitated the disorder? Why is it taboo for anyone to mention this with respect to John McCain? I am sick of this protective shield that has been afforded John McCain because of his POW episode. I agree that McCain's POW experience must have been a horrible nightmare. But isn't that the point? Why can't anyone discuss whether this nightmarish experience has shaped John McCain in a negative way, but only in the context that he has been deemed a hero?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Brabantio (July 09, 2008 9:38 am ET)
             
          That's an excellent point.  I don't think it's much of a concern in this specific case, but if it was it would apply directly to his performance.  That would be a valid question to raise at some point, even if that's what Clinton was referring to.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by IRONY 101 (July 09, 2008 9:50 am ET)
               
            A person usually must undergo psychological evaluation to become a police officer...at least on large police forces. Yet the persons who seek to attain the most powerful office in the world do not. Go figure...
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Governor (July 09, 2008 9:41 am ET)
             

          Isn't it a component of PTSD that a person has recurring thoughts, even years later, about the episode that precipitated the disorder? Why is it taboo for anyone to mention this with respect to John McCain?

           

          Shhhhh!  Come on now.  If American's collapse, which Team Bush so successfully architected, is to be completed, we’re gonna need a short tempered lunatic in the White House to accomplish the mission.
          Report Abuse

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