About us Login Get email updates
Research
Print

NY Post's Hurt baselessly asserted that Obama "is ranked the most liberal member of the Senate"

July 17, 2008 1:17 pm ET

SUMMARY: The New York Post's Charles Hurt asserted that Sen. Barack Obama "is ranked the most liberal member of the Senate based on his votes on issues," citing no evidence for his assertion. Many conservatives and media figures have repeated the National Journal's ranking of Obama as the "most liberal senator" for 2007 without noting the ranking's subjectivity.

86 Comments

In a July 14 "Inside Washington" column, New York Post Washington bureau chief Charles Hurt baselessly asserted that Sen. Barack Obama "is ranked the most liberal member of the Senate based on his votes on issues." While Hurt cited no evidence of Obama's ranking, many conservatives and media figures have repeated the National Journal's ranking of Obama as the "most liberal senator" for 2007 without noting the ranking's subjectivity. As Media Matters for America has repeatedly noted, the National Journal based its rankings not on all votes cast by senators in 2007, but on "99 key Senate votes, selected by NJ reporters and editors, to place every senator on a liberal-to-conservative scale." Further, among the "votes on issues" Obama cast to earn the Journal ranking were his votes to implement the bipartisan 9-11 Commission's homeland security recommendations, provide more children with health insurance, permit federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research, and maintain a federal minimum wage. By contrast, a study by political science professors Keith Poole and Jeff Lewis, using every non-unanimous vote cast in the Senate in 2007 to determine relative ideology, placed Obama in a tie for the ranking of 10th most liberal senator.

As Media Matters documented, Obama has challenged the National Journal's vote selection, saying, "[A]n example of why I was rated the most liberal was because I wanted an office of public integrity that stood outside of the Senate, and outside of Congress, to make sure that you've got an impartial eye on ethics problems inside of Congress. Now, I didn't know that it was a liberal or Democratic issue. I thought that was a good government issue that a lot of Republicans would like to see."

American Enterprise Institute resident scholar Norman J. Ornstein has also criticized the National Journal's rating of Obama, calling it "pretty ridiculous."

From Hurt's July 14 New York Post "Inside Washington" column, headlined "Chuck's Book a Woe for O":

This will be a historic year for Democrats, argues Sen. Chuck Schumer, who is re-releasing his book "Positively American" in paperback later this month with a new forward about this fall's elections.

But a careful reading of Schumer's recipe for winning makes clear that his party's biggest vulnerability is sitting at the top of the ticket.

This year is a once-in-a-generation tipping point, he says, because the middle class has begun to worry about its future, its children's future and the country's future.

And these voters are precisely why Barack Obama could turn into yet another disaster for Democrats.

He excites the college set with his style and soaring rhetoric.

His upbeat idealism and seemingly honest character even reaches conservatives fed up with Washington Republicans, who have proved themselves both literally and philosophically corrupt.

The one group left completely unstirred by Barack Obama is the working middle class, who delivered shocking blows to the candidate-in-waiting in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Kentucky to name just a few.

Schumer's playbook for winning also cuts Obama out of the picture by arguing that issues, not style and likability, will rule the day this fall.

This would destroy Obama, who is ranked the most liberal member of the Senate based on his votes on issues.

People like Obama precisely for his style, not because he has supported banning all handguns, allowing partial-birth abortions and promised sit-downs with the world's worst dictators.

People like Obama in spite of his positions on these issues.

Schumer, of course, does not mention Obama in his new forward and goes to great pains to say that all the Democratic candidates running are outstanding.

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (July 17, 2008 1:28 pm ET)
         

      Oh no, not again. I realize MMFA is duty-bound to report these stupid statements, no matter how many times they're  repeated , but it also means another of those long Groundhog's Day style threads dedicated to the same people with the same question;

      "Duhhhh... I confused. If libural good, why not most libral better?"

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 1:46 pm ET)
           
        It's tired, that's for sure.  You’d think that Obama's FISA vote would put to bed the unsubstantiated and subjective notion that Obama is even a liberal Senator, let alone that he's some most liberal.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (July 17, 2008 3:28 pm ET)
             

          "A lie gets half way around the world before the turth can put its trousers on."

          Churchill, I believe?

          Did I get it right?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 4:04 pm ET)
               
            I thought Herbert Kornfeld said that before he got street cred.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by neondesert (July 17, 2008 5:28 pm ET)
                 

              ...in response to dem beeyotches down in accounts receivable gettin' all up in da h-dog's face 'bout dat promotion ta supe'visah.

              Sheeyet...

              Report Abuse
    • Author by shaggles (July 17, 2008 1:33 pm ET)
         

      I think it's hilarious that they're trying to tag Obama with this "most liberal Senator" label.  I consider Obama pretty conservative.  But of course who ever the Dems run will be called most liberal because the right thinks that will scare people off.  They may be right about some but I think most people that would be worried about that aren't going to vote for a Dem anyway.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (July 17, 2008 1:51 pm ET)
           

        I think it's pretty funny too. Funnier is how desperate the righty media is to try to bring down Obama, that they can completely contradict themselves and their faithful audience goes right along with it.

        Obama says he's about change? quick, show every example possible that can paint him as a normal , old school,run of the mill politician.

        Obama is doing well in the polls, showing broad appeal? quick, make him look like a radical/ extremist.

        Now do both at the same time.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by August Heat (July 17, 2008 1:47 pm ET)
         

      And these voters are precisely why Barack Obama could turn into yet another disaster for Democrats.

      Funny.  I thought this Republican regime has been disasterous for both Democrats and Republicans.  Somebody buy this man a clue.  I guess there is still something wrong with being labeled liberal.  I guess the past eight CONSERVATIVE years have been fruitful, what with finding Bin Laden, stepping on our CONSTITUTION, torture and all.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by neondesert (July 17, 2008 2:44 pm ET)
           

        Ah, but you're under the mistaken assumption that conservatives will take responsibility for the past 8 years.  But ask any one of them, and they'll all tell you that the current administration is NOT conservative.  And if you suggest that maybe, just maybe, their judgement should be in question because of the Bush selection (since he apparently abandoned their philosophies), they'll just retreat into Hypothetical World and claim that Gore or Kerry (voted most liberal of 2003) would have been worse.

        And one can never underestimate the creativity of the paranoid pessimistic conservative mind to come up with a scenario worse than our current situation.  Just wait until McCain becomes president...

        Report Abuse
        • Author by August Heat (July 17, 2008 2:52 pm ET)
             
          Neon are you serious?  Warrantless spying, torture, claiming executive privilege where there previously was none?  Not conservative?  Really?  Then enlighten me and tell me what is conservative.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by neondesert (July 17, 2008 2:58 pm ET)
               

            Yes, I'm serious.  Conservatives WILL NOT claim Bush as theirs.  They'll point to his overspending and expansion of the size of government and say "See?  He's not conservative."

            And if you have any other doubts about that, do like I suggested and actually ASK one and prove it to yourself if you have to.

            Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (July 17, 2008 1:50 pm ET)
         

       -- Charles Hurt baselessly asserted -- mmfa

      While we are examining Hurt's baseless assertions without evidence I'll add a couple:

       -- He excites the college set with his style and soaring rhetoric. --

       -- His upbeat idealism and seemingly honest character even reaches conservatives fed up with Washington Republicans --

      It's an opinion piece...not a thesis on splitting the atom. 

       

       

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (July 17, 2008 1:54 pm ET)
           
        I don't think Hurt asserted any of those things, W. With or without evidence.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (July 17, 2008 2:27 pm ET)
           

        He excites the college set with his style and soaring rhetoric.

        Are you seriously suggesting there's "no evidence of this?" Or is your beef merely that it wasn't cited?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (July 17, 2008 2:47 pm ET)
             
          Good work, eddie...you're a lot smarter than the mmfa staff.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by BottleBlonde (July 17, 2008 4:00 pm ET)
               

            His "exciting the crowd" is an opinion that does not demand a sourcing.

            His quoting of a supposed piece of factual information from another source does require mentioning that source.

            Maybe now you've got it.

            Report Abuse
      • Author by wesley (July 17, 2008 5:10 pm ET)
           

         -- he has supported banning all handguns, allowing partial-birth abortions and promised sit-downs with the world's worst dictators. -- Hurt

        While the mmfa staff was mailing in another cut and paste rebuttal of the most liberal senator survey...this description of Obama apparently didn't even raise the twitch of an eyebrow.

        Or maybe it didn't because they know it's true...and puts him squarely in the forefront of the liberal posse. I don't need a survey to understand that fact.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by pointofview (July 17, 2008 5:21 pm ET)
             

          Wes

          You are right of course.  MMFA does not want to look at those facts. 

          Report Abuse
    • Author by leatherhelmet (July 17, 2008 1:52 pm ET)
         

      Imus called,

      He wants a thread on Jesse's use of the N-word. 

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (July 17, 2008 2:11 pm ET)
           

        Dear Imus-

        Sorry I drank your milkshake.

        Sincerely,

        Howard Stern

        Report Abuse
    • Author by anotheramerican (July 17, 2008 2:01 pm ET)
         

      When rating Obama's voting record by liberal groups and then adjusting for the votes he did not make, (by my calculation,) Obama tied as the most Liberal Senator in 2007 by electoral-vote.com.  

      To add further credence to this, electoral-vote.com ranked Obama as the most liberal in 2005. (I did not find a ranking for 2006.)

      The liberal groups that were included in this averaging were:

      ACLU - American Civil Liberties Union
      ADA - Americans for Democratic Action
      CDF - Children's Defense Fund
      LCV - League of Conservation Voters
      NAACP - National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
      NARAL - National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League
      SEIU - Service Employees International Union

      MMFA is being disingenuous by ignoring this obvious source.  They are not providing all the facts and are pushing their agenda to people who mistakenly believe they are getting the full picture.

      This is probably at least the fourth thread repeating this meme that Obama is "not that liberal".  

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (July 17, 2008 2:19 pm ET)
           

        Let's see, how would you define 'disingenuous'?

        For example, taking a poll that ranks Obama at #40 and adjusting it for 'your calculations' to make him rank #1?

        How about using a poll from 2005, when Obama had been in the Senate for less than a year, and receive 'incomplete' scores from 2 of the rating groups?

        I wonder if either of those things count as 'disingenuous'

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (July 17, 2008 2:28 pm ET)
             
          Well, the Science101 dept. has been pretty well covered lately here, looks like AA is picking up the math dept with the same credibility. Har!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (July 17, 2008 2:33 pm ET)
               
            So how do you rate a senator that hasn't voted on a single proposal since April?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by commonsenseliberal (July 17, 2008 4:48 pm ET)
                 
              I rate him as not doing his job; therefore, termination is in order.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by my4cents (July 17, 2008 2:32 pm ET)
             

          Another interesting point from the same source is that Sen. McCain is 5th from bottom (lumped with the likes of Coburn, Inhofe) for 2007.

          He was much closer to middle in 2005. It can be implied that he is pandering to the extreme right since he decided to pursue the Presidency.

          Even Sen. Brownback is less conservative than McCain.

          <sarcasm>Winning the Independent vote should be a breeze for McCain</sarcasm>.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (July 17, 2008 2:34 pm ET)
               
            5th from bottom - are we talking about his voting record or his class ranking from the US military academy?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by anotheramerican (July 17, 2008 4:13 pm ET)
               

            My,

            You are more than welcome to look at McCain's votes the same way and criticize him for not showing up to vote in 2007. I feel the same way.  

            Report Abuse
        • Author by pete592 (July 17, 2008 2:35 pm ET)
             

          AA apparently thinks we don't have the capacity to use the Google.

          2007 ratings.

          2005 ratings. 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by anotheramerican (July 17, 2008 4:11 pm ET)
               

            Pete,

            I have supplied the link many times but thanks. I do believe some here do know how to google.

            Now take a look at the links they provided, go to the actual voting records each group uses to determine it's rankings, and adjust the figures to remove those ratings that included non-votes. You'll see that Obama's liberal leanings are almost completely liberal.

            I did the math a while back and posted it, when MMFA first started down this path. Maybe someone can find it.  

            Using the averaging of liberal groups ratings and adjusting for non-votes, Obama tied for most liberal.  

            I find it funny that all the very liberal liberals/progressives here seem to be somewhat miffed that Obama is considered very liberal. Why is that?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 4:23 pm ET)
                 

              I did the math a while back and posted it, when MMFA first started down this path. Maybe someone can find it.  

              Using the averaging of liberal groups ratings and adjusting for non-votes, Obama tied for most liberal. 

               

              You did what with the who now? 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by commonsenseliberal (July 17, 2008 4:52 pm ET)
                   

                He plagiarized (just like Dems_Sol on another thread).  We all know it - because, as said above, we can all use the Googles.

                Intellectual dishonesty runs rampant in right-wing circles.

                Report Abuse
            • Author by MoonbatYouBet (July 17, 2008 5:09 pm ET)
                 
              Why?  First of all because Obama certainly is not the most liberal congressman currently serving.  But more importantly, the more the fringe right gets away with labelling a mild liberal like Obama as some sort of crazy extremist miles away from the center the easier it is for them to continue the false claim that this country as a whole thinks the way they do.  It's about bringing the center back to the true center after it has been yanked so far to the right by the wingnuts.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (July 17, 2008 4:03 pm ET)
             

          Kyle,

          It is not disingenuous at all. I merely pointed out what I feel supports my contention.  I did not claim Obama as the most liberal in 2005, that organization did.

          I haven't read further yet, but I noticed you have not offered any argument to counter my assertion except to imply it is disingenuous.

          Do the math. See if you come up with something different.  

          Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (July 18, 2008 7:25 am ET)
             

          Kyle,

          You are mistaken. The electoral-vote.com rating was not a poll at all. It is rating created by averaging the ratings of the liberal groups I cited earlier. 

          I found that those ratings were not consistent. Some only included the Senator's voting record for actual Yea/Nay votes on bills important to that group. Others took only the total number Yea votes for the bills they were interested in. 

          I found that because Obama was missing from a number of votes, (no doubt do to campaigning, as were Hillary and McCain,) that it skewed his results toward the center.

          If you factor out those missed votes and use the criteria of actual votes in those ratings, then Obama's rating would put him tied as the most liberal. 

          The average rating by electoral-vote com or National Journal is as subjective a rating as mine or those professors who came out with different numbers. My contention is that with the same validity as the ratings produced by electoral-vote.com, that by using the same liberal groups own ratings, and standardizing the criteria for those ratings, that Obama has arguably the most liberal voting record in the Senate in 2007. 

          And as I pointed out, electoral-vote.com, even without the adjustments for non-votes, rated Obama the most liberal in 2005. (2006 seems to be missing.)

          Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (July 17, 2008 2:23 pm ET)
           

        (by my calculation,) Obama tied as the most Liberal Senator in 2007

        I think I can guess your formula, Barn.It's the same one most of our GOP media uses.

        DN = ml (S)

        You'll have to excuse those who, based on your history here, don't put a lot of stock in these fictional "calculations" of yours.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (July 17, 2008 2:31 pm ET)
           

        AA,

        Would the most liberal member of the Senate capitulate on FISA like he did?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (July 17, 2008 4:17 pm ET)
             

          Good question.  My guess is Obama did so, not out of conviction, but because he is a politician, (and since he has the nomination by appealing the far left in the primaries), trying to move back to the right in order to win the election. 

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (July 17, 2008 5:18 pm ET)
               

            AA,

            Have you seen the ratings from the American Conservative Union?  They disagree with you.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (July 18, 2008 7:43 am ET)
                 

              Fried,

              Yes. Every group has it's own criteria for ratings.  Obama voted for one bill the  Conservative Union supported, where as a number of other Democrats didn't have even cast one vote in favor of bills that the CU considered important. That one vote gave him a ranking of 8 out of 100 as opposed to 0. Hardly a ringing endorsement of Obama's supposed centrist views.

              What is interesting is that Obama missed 10 votes that were on CU's list. CU did not take those missed votes into account when rating. That is the same logic I used when calculating the average ratings by those liberal groups.  

              Here is the description by CU of the bill Obama voted in favor. 

              . Earmark Disclosure
              S1 (Roll Call 5).  The Senate killed an amendment that would have required the disclosure of the names of Senators requesting special interest earmark spending and expanded the definition of earmarks to include federally-funded non-federal projects.  ACU favors greater transparency in “earmarked” spending and favored this amendment, which was defeated January 11, 2007 by a vote of 46-51.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by friedbergboy1422 (July 18, 2008 10:00 am ET)
                   

                AA,

                I never called him a centrist, just not the most liberal.  I think the facts back that up.  If you eliminate a category because he didn't vote for them and you consider that category to be liberal, that is even more evidence he isn't the most liberal.  If those causes were a priority, he probably wouldn't have missed those votes, right?  I think your own method defeats your premise here.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by anotheramerican (July 18, 2008 1:48 pm ET)
                     

                  fried,

                  I'm using the results compiled by those liberal organizations I mentioned earlier that were in the eletoral-vote.com.  I'll grant you that the ratings are imperfect, but they, not I determined the which bills are to be considered. Each group has bills they consider important to their constituency and their ratings reflect those considerations.

                  By combining those liberals groups and averaging the results, a voting picture of the candidate emerges... (except for McCain who rarely voted.)

                  As to the relative importance Obama placed on those missed votes, no one but Obama knows. Maybe you are correct?  I am not of the opinion that missed votes during an extended primary campaign makes Obama more conservative than missed votes makes McCain more liberal.  

                   

                  Report Abuse
      • Author by August Heat (July 17, 2008 2:32 pm ET)
           
        American even if you are correct, so what?  What's wrong with being called liberal?  Too long have conservative painted liberals as something they are not and have gottent away with it.  How about we paint conservatives as they have been the past 8 years: lying, law-breaking, innocent killing opportunist.  We all know Obama isn't the most liberal anything, but even if he were, it's not like conservatives could look down their nose at him. . .
        Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (July 17, 2008 4:22 pm ET)
             

          August,

          I agree. I see nothing wrong at all with being the most liberal.  What I find amusing is how MMFA and so many here are running from that moniker. I would think liberals would proclaim it instead of denying it.

          Obama's voting record is what it is. If he is the most liberal, so be it.  

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 4:58 pm ET)
               

            If I don't vote Obama, it'll be because he's on pace to be right of center by election day. 

            That aside, the SIMPLE issue here is that Obama is NOT the most liberal Senator.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by commonsenseliberal (July 17, 2008 5:02 pm ET)
               

            I wouldn't say that MMFA is running from the 'liberal' moniker.  MMFA is pointing out the fact that the right-wing is continuing to use the word 'liberal' as if it's the "f-word".  You know very well what they're up to.

            No, there isn't anything wrong with the word liberal.  However, there are several segments of our society who believe what the right-wing has spoon-fed them for years:  Conservatism = good; Liberalism = evil.  It's a falsehood that needs to be rectified.  IMHO, most of the nation falls somewhere in the middle, leaving the wackos on the fringes of either side.  The people to whom 'liberal' is a bad word wouldn't vote for Obama anyway.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (July 18, 2008 7:49 am ET)
                 

              CSL,

              I do believe your opinion is shared by many others here.

              Rather than equate the term 'liberal' with a vulgarism, many organizations, beyond conservatives find the term 'liberal' to be a perfectly acceptable qualifier.  

              Report Abuse
      • Author by BottleBlonde (July 17, 2008 4:03 pm ET)
           

        Another American said "MMFA is being disingenuous by ignoring this obvious source."

        But he's not telling the truth. The person who didn't mention the 'obvious source' was the person that Media Matters is calling out in this posting they did. The only source that claims that he is the most liberal Senator is that well-known recent ranking that is not credible because of their methodology.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (July 17, 2008 4:26 pm ET)
             

          Charles Hurt is no more lying than you did with your post.

          The methodology is credible even if you disagree. All ratings are subjective including those Professors who created their own rating system. 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by MoonbatYouBet (July 17, 2008 5:01 pm ET)
               
            The methodology may be credible, but the criteria they used make the study meaningless.  They were extremely subjective to the point of inventing their own definition of what "liberal" means in what votes they chose to label as liberal.  Not that this hasn't been pointed out to you over and over again, but sometimes one has the optimism that today is the day they might beat the brick wall. 
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 5:09 pm ET)
                 
              Oh, come on!  Everyboby knows that voting to limit debate on a proposal to agree to House revisions to legislation reauthorizing and expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program is perhaps the most liberal thing a US Senator could do!
              Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (July 18, 2008 7:55 am ET)
                 

              Moon,

              You are entitled to your opinion and the National Revue's methodology. Would you say the same for the following:

                American Civil Liberties Union?
                Americans for Democratic Action
                Children's Defense Fund
                League of Conservation Voters
                National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
                National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League
                National Parent-Teacher Association
                Service Employees International Union

               After all, each of these liberal groups came up with their subjective criteria for rating Senators.  Does your argument apply to these groups too? 

              Report Abuse
          • Author by pointofview (July 17, 2008 5:27 pm ET)
               

            AA

            You are exactly right.  Any methods used to caculate this kind of thing will have strengths and weaknesses.  But to claim it is baseless is misleading at best.  It all comes down to the perception of liberal as a dirty word.  Maybe if they can get Jackson to whisper "liberal" off camera, we can discuss it. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by friedbergboy1422 (July 17, 2008 6:39 pm ET)
                 

              POV,

              If McCain was called the most conservative Senator, would you object?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by pointofview (July 17, 2008 7:36 pm ET)
                   

                Fried

                If McCain was in fact the most conservative I would be a very happy man.  He is far to liberal for my tastes, but I have that same complaint about Bush as well.  Fact of the matter is that different studies have produced different result with Obama and the most liberal tag.  I could care less if he is the most liberal or not, he is far to liberal for me. 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by friedbergboy1422 (July 17, 2008 7:46 pm ET)
                     

                  POV,

                  The studies producing Obama as the most liberal are skewed just as any study that would call McCain the most conservative would be.  I really wish there was a study that called McCain the most conservative just so those who label themselves as such would have the same experience.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (July 18, 2008 1:54 am ET)
                     

                  If McCain was CALLED the most conservative Senator

                  Does that help, POV? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a reading comprehension problem, if you were  intentionally dodging the question, disregard this.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by friedbergboy1422 (July 18, 2008 10:02 am ET)
                       

                    That's exactly the problem, Col.  All these people who are conservative would be furious if McCain was called the most conservative because, and I think I am reading some conservatives correctly, they don't think he is conservative enough.

                    Just like for liberals, many don't think Obama is liberal enough and yet he is called the "most liberal" which is untrue.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (July 18, 2008 12:51 pm ET)
                         

                      Hey Fried, it's amazing isn't it? That's why I posted that very first comment on this thread, not just to have a little fun at the expense of the clueless, but to maybe try to tip some of them off before they made asses of them selves again.

                      That's why I checked back. This topic is pretty boring , except for the fascinating fact that a few people don't seem to get it. And there's so many ways to get it;

                      The ratings themselves are subjective and don't really mean much.

                      The "most liberal" label is being isolated by the right to paint Obama as an extremist

                      The methods, the info used for the ratings, the fact that most of the posters being accused of running away from the word "liberal" are commenting that their problem is that Obama is not liberal enough. At first I thought it was another case of the con posters here playing dumb to derail threads, but I'm having trouble believing it's an act anymore.

                      And I have to give a special award to our favorite wingnut, who has gone so far as to pretend to do his own "calculations" to make the data fit his wishes.Talk about not seeing the forest. Oh well, it's entertaining.

                      Report Abuse
      • Author by commonsenseliberal (July 17, 2008 4:53 pm ET)
           

        I noticed you left off the credits for your post.  Care to explain your plagiarism?

        Report Abuse
    • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 2:10 pm ET)
         
      Electoral-vote.com ranked 40 Senators as being more liberal than Obama in 2007.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (July 17, 2008 2:11 pm ET)
         
      Can anyone tell me what issues are considered when they chose the most liberal?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 2:15 pm ET)
           
        One of the "Key votes" National Review based their Senator ranking on was a vote to table a proposal to bar Davis-Bacon prevailing-wage requirements for highway bridge construction or maintenance projects.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (July 17, 2008 2:15 pm ET)
         

      The National Journal's item has been used so often, they ought to charge product placement fees on it.

       

      Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (July 17, 2008 2:30 pm ET)
         

      Thankyou for your answer Gov.  My reason for asking that question was unless you know the issues being voted on being labeled this or that has no context.  I feel that most people are liberal not conservative but liberal has gotten such a bad rap that those spoon fed by the MSM reject the term but actually agree with liberals on most issues.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by August Heat (July 17, 2008 2:47 pm ET)
           
        That's all I'm saying.  Who cares if your labeled liberal?  I wouldn't want to be labeled someone who voted for this conservative president two terms in a row. 
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 2:51 pm ET)
             
          I'd be more inclined to view Obama as a liberal if he voted like one.  I'd also be more inclined to vote for him.  In fact, he's not the most liberal Senator and his recent FISA vote makes it very clear to me that he is not liberal.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by August Heat (July 17, 2008 3:00 pm ET)
               

            Well I won't argue Obama's intentions with you.  I will however stick with my previous point that being liberal is not a sin.  

            Going to war for weapons you never found, Trillions of dollars

            Foreclosures across the nation, Billions of dollars

            Voting for a torture pushing, citizen spying, Iraqi killing president two terms in a row - PRICELESS!!!

            Report Abuse
      • Author by anotheramerican (July 18, 2008 7:59 am ET)
           

        Conger,

        Where in the mainstream press has the term 'liberal' gotten such a bad rap? 

        Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (July 17, 2008 3:05 pm ET)
         
      Couldn't agree with you more Gov. on the FISA vote.  My support for Obama is not because I think he is infallible,but because overall I think he will take this nation in a direction we need to go.  I reserve my right to disagree and criticize  him when I think he's wrong, FISA is such an example.  My hope is that when he becomes President this issue will be revisited by a Democratic controlled house and Senate, but I won't hold my breath this will happen unless we the people hold our representatives feet to the fire so to speak.  If the govt. continues to go the way contrary to the interest of the people we should hold our right to alter and or abolish it.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by jeter2 (July 17, 2008 3:33 pm ET)
         

      Oh Gawd not this again :-O

      I agree with everyone here that said the Right throws the Liberal lapel around as a scare tactic. And of course MOST Liberal is even more frightening ;-)

      Obama has moved to the center [as most Presidential candidates do] and therefore has become a more attractive candidate to me, as I sit pretty much in the middle myself.

      Be prepared to have this MOST Liberal false accusation to be repeated right through election day.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 3:44 pm ET)
           

        Obama has moved to the center [as most Presidential candidates do] and therefore has become a more attractive candidate to me, as I sit pretty much in the middle myself.

        Do you have a specific example of him moving from left to center?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by anotheramerican (July 17, 2008 4:30 pm ET)
           

        Jeter,

        Did you read my earlier posts?  Go take a look as I suggested, adjust for the non-votes,  and then show me how the "most liberal" is false.  

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Governor (July 17, 2008 4:36 pm ET)
             
          Are you asking others to find and explain your maths?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by anotheramerican (July 18, 2008 8:06 am ET)
               

            Gov,

            Only Jeter. I expect the rest of you to take me at my word. :-)  

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Governor (July 18, 2008 10:03 am ET)
                 
              Take you at your word that Obama is the most liberal senator?  But he's not.  MANY are more liberal than him.  I wish he were but he's not.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by friedbergboy1422 (July 17, 2008 10:36 pm ET)
             

          AA,

          If you take away the non-votes,  McCain has perfect attendance.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (July 17, 2008 4:41 pm ET)
         
      Another American  not that i detest the most liberal label but answer me what votes did Obama cast that were used to assign the most liberal label on him ?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (July 17, 2008 5:09 pm ET)
         
      I'am curious Another American did any of the votes have to do with protecting workers rights,civil rights,or childrens health care?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by congero6189599 (July 17, 2008 5:29 pm ET)
         
      here it is for all that interested Obamas' voting record: http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490
      Report Abuse
    • Author by hurricaneyankee52983 (July 17, 2008 10:44 pm ET)
         
      Nothing new here. The CONHEADS did this same thing  in 00 and 04,it's just about all they got.This shows just how desperate they are. Expect more of the same between now and November.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by truthseeker77 (July 18, 2008 1:19 am ET)
         
      I remember when this Charles Hurt pretended to like Obama in order to hurt Hillary's chances. At one point it seemed that Hurt had written about 30 consecutive anti-Clinton pieces.
      Report Abuse
The Fox Effect
Media Matters Connect

Push Back

Phone calls, emails and letters from the public do make a difference. Remember that to be effective you must be polite, and professional. Express your specific concerns regarding that particular news report or commentary, and indicate what you would like the media outlet to do differently in the future.

  • New York Post
    New York Post
    New York Post
    1211 Avenue of the Americas
    New York, NY 10036-8790
    Main Office: (212) 930-8000