Criticizing Carter, Fox News' Carlson repeated falsehood that McCain rarely talks about his POW experience
SUMMARY: On Fox & Friends, Gretchen Carlson said that the "first time" Sen. John McCain "really did start sharing some personal moments" about his prisoner of war experience in Vietnam was during his August 16 appearance at a forum at Pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Church, adding that "most people would say that John McCain hasn't talked enough about his POW experience." In fact, McCain has discussed his POW experience, including "personal moments," during the current campaign as well as on numerous previous occasions.
Echoing a falsehood she has made before, Fox & Friends co-host Gretchen Carlson said that the "first time" Sen. John McCain "really did start sharing some personal moments" about his prisoner of war experience in Vietnam was during his August 16 appearance at a forum at Pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Church. Referring to the assertion by former President Jimmy Carter that "I think that John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage from that unfortunate experience in his early military life," Carlson claimed on the August 29 edition of Fox & Friends: "On its face, it's an amazing statement, but it's also amazing when you start to analyze it because most people would say that John McCain hasn't talked enough about his POW experience, and the first time that he really did start sharing some personal moments about that, which were very tough for him to do, was during the Saddleback forum with Rick Warren a few weeks ago."
Previously, while discussing McCain's appearance at Saddleback during the August 19 edition of Fox & Friends Carlson asserted that McCain "doesn't like to talk about when he was a POW." In fact, McCain repeatedly referred to his POW experience before the Saddleback forum, including during the current campaign -- for instance, during a July 9 interview with Pittsburgh's KDKA-TV.
Further, in an August 28 Time article headlined "Is McCain Overplaying the POW Card?" Michael Scherer reported:
When he first ran for Congress in Arizona nearly three decades ago, John McCain had one clear liability: he wasn't from the state, and he could count the number of years he had lived there on a couple of fingers.
So his primary opponent, state senator Jim Mack, attacked him as a Johnny-come-lately. To counter the charge, at a candidate forum, McCain offered a decidedly pointed response. "I wish I could have had the luxury, like you, of growing up and living and spending my entire life in a nice place like the first district of Arizona, but I was doing other things," he said. "As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi."
McCain's heroic biography, as a Navy veteran and former prisoner of war, gave him a clear out for the carpetbagger critique. It was widely seen as a devastating response -- and a key turning point in McCain's early political career.
Twenty-six years later, McCain has returned to the same tactic, but some critics say he is overplaying his trump card.
[...]
Indeed, from the beginning of the campaign, McCain has consistently made his time in captivity a feature of his stump speech. On tours through New Hampshire and Iowa, he told a cycle of stories: a tale about a prison mate who was caught and beaten for sewing an American flag, and one about a North Vietnamese prison guard who drew a cross in the dirt to demonstrate to McCain his Christian faith. He has also described in some detail the painful rope bonds that his captors would tie him in overnight.
Moreover, contrary to Carlson's assertion that McCain had not shared his "personal moments" relating to his POW experience before appearing at Saddleback, McCain has repeatedly specifically talked about his refusal to accept early release from the North Vietnamese. For instance, McCain repeatedly refers to his refusal to accept an early release in his 1999 book, Faith of My Fathers (Random House). For example, on Page 235 of the paperback edition, McCain writes:
I wanted to say yes. I badly wanted to go home. I was tired and sick, and despite my bad attitude, I was often afraid. But I couldn't keep from my own counsel the knowledge of how my release would affect my father, and my fellow prisoners. I knew what the Vietnamese hoped to gain from my release.
From the August 29 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:
BRIAN KILMEADE (co-host): Now think about the Democratic National Convention that we saw: all the big names -- Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, of course, Barack Obama, himself -- John Kerry is speaking yesterday as well. Who are we missing? What big-name Democrat --
STEVE DOOCY (co-host): Sure.
KILMEADE: -- did not have a prominent role?
DOOCY: Well, I think you're forgetting the guy who won the Nobel Prize for peace in the world.
CARLSON: Which one?
DOOCY: Well, I'm talking this time about Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter sat down for an interview with USA Today and the Gannett News Service, and what he said about John McCain's biography and the campaign is extraordinary. Listen to this.
CARTER [video clip]: I think that John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage from that unfortunate experience in his early military life.
DOOCY: Did you hear that? He said, "John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage" from his POW status.
CARLSON: Well, it's an amazing statement.
DOOCY: Milking that he was a POW.
CARLSON: On its face, it's an amazing statement, but it's also amazing when you start to analyze it, because most people would say that John McCain hasn't talked enough about his POW experience, and the first time that he really did start sharing some personal moments about that, which were very tough for him to do, was during the Saddleback forum with Rick Warren a few weeks ago.
KILMEADE: He said that every question that went his way, that went his way from Rick Warren, he put it back to his POW status. And I'll tell you what, Jimmy Carter is and was a naval officer for seven years, but now you talk about --
DOOCY: Which is kind of scary, Brian, because he was on one of those tactical nuclear submarines, this guy, with his finger on the button.
KILMEADE: Yeah, I know.
DOOCY: That doesn't scare you?
"I think that John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage from that unfortunate experience in his early military life'
Thankfully Barack Obama does not exemplify, nor would he ever say something so stupid, the incredible disrespect that Jimmy Carter does. And thankfully people don't care what Jimmy Carter says anymore now than they ever did.
Of course it's true. And this isn't the first time McCain milked his POW gravytrain...
PHOENIX — A newcomer to Arizona, John McCain used his wife's wealth, ties to powerful Washington figures and, most of all, the emotional power of his five years in a Vietnamese prison to launch his political career 25 years ago.
Well-known today, McCain's harrowing experience during the Vietnam War was new to voters in his 1982 race for an open congressional seat. McCain saturated local TV with an ad focused on his military record that showed him getting off a plane on crutches shortly after his release as a POW.
"It showed he was a hero. It would bring tears to your eyes," said rival candidate Ray Russell, a veterinarian who finished second in the Republican primary that year.
In his 2002 book "Worth the Fighting For," McCain himself acknowledged his strategy: "Thanks to my prisoner of war experience, I had, as they say in politics, a good first story to sell."
"milking" is too good of a word to describe this egocentric fool.
Of course it's true.
I'm still waiting for Tommy to explain how it's disrespectful for Carter to accurately point out that McCain is milking being a POW for dishonest causes, trying to make himself look better than he deserves to look. Here's his comment, when challenged why it's dishonest. Classic Tommy, saying that the problem is that we wouldn't understand it or we wouldn't accept any answer he gave - it's an opinion, anyway, so why should any of us be able to challenge his opinion? Reality? There is no reason to call it dishonest, and so he can't give us a legit answer to the question!!!
The disrespect in such remarks speak for themselves, do you think I would ever convince you of that? It's a simple difference of opinion, you don't agree, so be it.
"There is no reason to call it dishonest, and so he can't give us a legit answer to the question!!!"
OK Sue, I know you can't go one week without a lie, and you managed to slip it in Friday afternoon, so at least you're consistent. Can you please point out where I said Carter was being "dishonest" in their speaking of McCain?
No, you can't. And poof, along with your old screennames, up in smoke again. But you entertain like no other, so I hope your mouth doesn't get you banned for awhile, I am rather enjoying watching your arguments implode.
Give me a break. I meant disrespect, it's what we've all been pointing out that you won't explain, and I mistype and say "dishonest", and you can't figure it out?
How lame is that, that you couldn't figure out I meant disrespect, not dishonest?
So, anytime now you can explain why it's disrespectful, Tommy.
I won't expect an apology for your insult and your mistake about what I meant, since I did type the wrong word, even though it was clear from your initial post, and from other content inside my post, that I was talking about 'disrespect' and not 'dishonest'. I'm willing to let it stand that you were just so inflamed by your temper that you couldn't see straight or process information coherently. You have that problem many days, but especially on Fridays.
Unless you aren't here because you don't work weekends, and almost never show up here unless you're getting paid.
Gretchen Carlson lied? Again?
I'm shocked, shocked I say.
Come on, Gretchen, get the facts before you open your mouth.
Gretchen, here's some FACTS for you. Read and learn something for a change.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/29/mccain-talks-pow/
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837074,00.html
What I meant in my comment, and I wasn't clear, was that I believe that McCain is milking his POW experience for political gain. To argue otherwise is disingenuous, and totally not looking at what he has said during his campaign, even during his whole house kerfuffle of last week, his campaign said McCain didn't even have a house when he was a POW, and I've heard them say things about how dare Obama attack McCain's policies, he was a POW you know (paraphrasing here of course). McCain is wielding his POW status as a cudgel against anyone who dare question him about anything. If that's not for political gain, I'm not sure what is.
I don't impugn McCain for his service, and I respect his service to this country as a Naval Aviator, and also as a Senator, but that doesn't mean I have to respect how he's using his favored status as a former POW to try and further his goal of becoming President.
"Why mention it all in that context?"
Because McCain does. If he TRULY didn't like to talk about, he wouldn't talk about it. THEN there would be no reason to bring it up in ANY "context." HE makes is a discussable part of his campaign by MENTIONING IT in "that context" so often.
Next to picking Jim Hensley to be his father-in-law, being captured and taken POW was the best political career move John McCain ever made. If that's disrespectful then too bad...see what Republicans say about Barack Obama. It's the truth...without Hensley or his POW experience McCain would be an obscure, bitter old man still getting in bar fights.
And let's not forget, republicans only respect military service when it serves their political pandering. This has to be one of my favorite ironies of the year:
BELLAVIA: Sen. Hagel has never been shot at in Iraq, he’s never seen what an IED looks like or been detonated on. This is an individual that could embed himself instead of doing a two-day congressional delegation. Go out there, walk with the troops, see what’s going on on the ground. […]
Now, again, with Sen. Hagel — my problem with Sen. Hagel is, again, his experienced is based on what? The Mekong Delta. It’s based to Vietnam, a totally different fight, a totally different enemy, and by the way, it was 30 years ago.
Why anybody would even suggest that saying McCain milking his service could be bad juju is beyond me, because republicans can and will attack military service with a venom and hatred that would make beelzebub blush.
Tommy,
This is somewhat off-topic, but what do YOU think about the way McCain milks his POW status? I'm disgusted by McCain's pandering and flip-flops, but I find his use of his experience as a POW as a shield to be just as bad as those who denigrated Kerry's military experience.
What I don't understand is how it's disrespectful.
Just like I don't understand how Democrats don't respect the sacrifice of our soldiers if we don't think we should continue our presence in Iraq.
Just like I don't think we all want open borders if we don't agree with draconian immigration measures.
Just like I know we don't want lots of abortions just because we want women to have the choice to control whether or not they have to remain pregnant!
It's not disrespectful to point out that John McCain is using his POW status dishonestly to portray him as something he's not. His POW status is only one small part of his character and history, and it is not an indicator of much when it comes to how he'd be as President, yet he brings it up over and over again.
President Carter said "I think that John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage from that unfortunate experience in his early military life." How is that disrespectful? McCain is trying to gain credibility in ways that are dishonest and irrelevant to his history as a POW.
"It's not disrespectful to point out that John McCain is using his POW status dishonestly to portray him as something he's not"
Do you ever run out of nonsense Sue, that is perhaps one of the most insipid comments you've ever made. Do you think McCain is lying about his POW service? Do you think he was really locked in the bedroom of a Hollywood Hilton instead of Hanoi, because that would be one way to "portray him as something he's not?"
Or do you have inside information about his time there being cushy and plush, because that would be one way to "portray him as something he's not?"
Go back to NomoBush, or one of your other aliases, you made more sense.
What a fool you often make of yourself on Fridays, and this Friday is no exception.
Your lack of reading comprehension is not my burden to bear. I said "It's not disrespectful to point out that John McCain is using his POW status dishonestly to portray him as something he's not."
That's what I meant. I know he's a POW. Duh! He's been using his POW status dishonestly to portray himself as someone who has leadership skills. The fact that he was a POW says nothing about his leadership skills. He's been using his POW status to claim that he's the best candidate to support vet issues, but the two things are wholly unrelated, and it's dishonest for him to claim that they are related. He's been using his POW status to escape scrutiny for any number of questionable choices or lapses in memory or accountability - that's a dishonest way to escape an accurate portrayal of who he is.
And what do you do? When you can't defeat the message, you attack the messenger, even if that messenger isn't the banned poster you claim she is. That's what slimy Republicans do all the time, and that's what you do all the time too. Fine bedfellows you associate with, Tommy.
" He's been using his POW status dishonestly to portray himself as someone who has leadership skills."
You are so incredibly arrogant and clueless, it's astounding. Who do you think you are to tell any voter what they will determine it takes to makes a good leader, or how to evaluate leadership skills? You can dismiss it if you want but it may be quite relevant to someone else. You have no authority to make that judgment for anyone else. My God Sue, grow up.
It's a fact, not my opinion.
Being a POW doesn't give one any leadership skills or anything that would lead one to believe that they'd be a good President.
You're the one who loses it on Fridays or when challenged by me, and you lose it so badly that you have delusions that I'm some banned poster who scared the crap out of you long ago.
And here's my full comment, in context. Tommy is both dishonest and not deserving respect.
He's been using his POW status dishonestly to portray himself as someone who has leadership skills. The fact that he was a POW says nothing about his leadership skills.
The fact is that he was a POW says nothing about his leadership skills. Nothing. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.
Others might have the opinion that they'll give his POW status some weight, and that's their choice to have that opinion, but it's a fact that being a POW says nothing about what kind of leader you'll be.
"Who do you think you are to tell any voter what they will determine it takes to makes a good leader, or how to evaluate leadership skills?"
Back at 'cha. Who are YOU to tell her she CAN'T use McCain's harping on his POS experience to determine whether she thinks he'll make a good leader or not?
It's her OPINION and she's entitled to express it.
And thankfully people don't care what Jimmy Carter says anymore now than they ever did. -Tommy
Did you copy this sentence from a Bush speech? ;-)
By the way, I respect Carter and listen to his remarks with interest.
Carter has a lot more to say than Tommy does.
And I say that out of a lack of respect for Tommy.
"Carter has a lot more to say than Tommy does."
And says it a LOT better, too.
I respect Carter quite a bit, too Mary. I guess some of us forgot to consult with Tommy about who we care about.
There is no disrespect in pointing out McCain's shameless repetition of his POW experience as an answer to every question. Good for Jimmy Carter. That's why I like the old geezers, they quit worrying about the repercussions of being honest.
Fine Col. But when Fox and Rush and the rest extrapolate Carter's idiotic comment to all Democrats, including Obama, and you and MMFA start whining about the media covering it, or misinterpreting it, it will be nothing but holllow bellyaching. See how well the voters, the independent voters that Obama needs to win, see how they feel about it. Obviously not the way hard liberals such as yourself do, who applaud it. But you aren't the ones Obama is trying to convince.
It's no wonder the left has such a hard time winning presidential elections, they hand their opponent a sword and then whine when it's used against them.
You use that word "whine" a lot Tommy. Rush and the rest of his goons can make stuff up out of whole cloth, it doesn't matter what the other side says, they'll just re-phrase it into the strawman they want.
It sounds like you're suggesting honest criticism of McCain should be withheld because Rush Limbaugh will point it out and call it disrespectful.
I'd prefer that people, like Carter, freely tell the truth. And if the wingnut media starts "whining" that it's disrespectful, others can "whine" that they're full of crap.
And don't mention that I'm a hard liberal anymore. We're not supposed to know each other except on the internets.
"Rush and the rest of his goons can make stuff up out of whole cloth, it doesn't matter what the other side says, they'll just re-phrase it into the strawman they want"
What exactly do these goons need to make up or rephrase about what Carter said, exactly? Seems like a simple verbatim quote is enough.
Yeah, this quote by itself(spoon fed by Rush to his idiots) will be convincing. I meant in other cases,even when somebody hasn't said something offensive to the far right (i.e., true) as Carter did, Rush just makes up stuff that he imagines they said, and his listeners get mad at that stuff.
If you think the way for the Dems to win an election is by not hurting con feelings, I won't argue with you. I'm hungry, it must be lunchtime.
verbatim quote "I think that John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage from that unfortunate experience in his early military life."
what is stupid or idiotic about the quote as you said in your previous posts?
But when Fox and Rush and the rest extrapolate Carter's idiotic comment to all Democrats...
What exactly was idiotic about Carter's comments? Carter only said what is plainly visible to many, many people who have noticed McCain's POW pandering long before Carter gave voice to it on a national stage.
Considering your irrational loathing of John McCain, and if enough voters are turned off by such Carter-esque comments that they pull the lever for McCain, then you will have won, won't you. All this truth about McCain's POW days will be out. Oh, and he may be president.
I kind of think that 4 year truth will sting you everyday....
And Tommy still never explained how it was idiotic.
It was idiotic because it was absolutely politically stupid, for one.
Why is it politically stupid, though? Why is it idiotic? Why is it disrespectful?
Don't expect an answer from him.
This isn't about who respects McCain or not, it's about winning and losing elections. You will never win on dissing McCain's service, most people will see it as a cheap political personal shot and it will only work in McCain's favor, surely you see that. It doesn't mean the right won't haul out the kitchen sink against Obama, of course they will, but calling McCain "milking" his service may just rub enough people the wrong way and he gets the sympathy vote if nothing else.
Are you prepared to pay the price of a McCain presidency just so you can see him get what you think he deserves? Because that is a very real possibility, in a very close election.
Tommy, I doubt very seriously if my opinions will sway this election. For the record, I do not loathe John McCain...I just have little respect for him because an examination of his life proves to me he's an ordinary, garden variety, money grubbing politician. And the way he has tried to use his POW experience in the political arena is shameless IMO. So I'll keep saying what I think...
BTW, you still have not answered why Jimmy Carter's comments were stupid and idiotic...
I don't think "disrespect" for McCain will win him voters. He suffered terribly in Vietnam and it's painful to hear him bringing this up so often now as a campaign tactic.
But I'm glad that Obama is taking the high road as his speech made clear. I think all the democrats should stick to that.
" I think all the democrats should stick to that"
Thank you Mary, that is my point exactly. Which is why Carter's comments are at best ill-advised, and stupid.
"Carter's comments are at best ill-advised, and stupid."--tommy
They are just "ill-advised" and "stupid" to be true. I am usually suspicious of people who can't handle the truth.
You will never win on dissing McCain's service, says Tommy.
Carter wasn't dissing his service though.
Are you a caption writer for FoxNews in your spare time away from this 40 hour a week job derailing threads at Media Matters?
Carter was dissing his milking of his POW status to falsely inflate his credentials and qualifications. You still have never explained how it's disrespectful, becuase you can't, because it isn't.
Our Lady of the Bleeding Heart does that have to do with being President???? The real answer is, NOTHING! It has everything to do with getting elected. But, COL., i take exception to your disrespectful use of the term "geezer". I have been a geezer for some time, now. Doesn't mean I'm not a nice person.
Just on the always-reliable FoxNews cable network this morning, Governor Sanford was saying the same thing, and the FoxNews reporter who was interviewing him didn't point out that it's untrue - I can't imagine why not!
Sanford said that McCain doesn't bring the subject up in private conservations, and only talks about it when asked. But the issue isn't what he does in private. It's what he's done as a candidate that's being discussed here! It's what he and his campaign are trying to portray themselves as that matters. So it's what McCain does in a campaign environment that matters, and so much of the time it's noun, verb, POW. He not only is bringing it up, but he's bringing it up when it has no relevance! No one disputes that he had it rough in the Hanoi Hilton. It has no bearing on him not knowing how many homes he and his wife share currently (and it doesn't matter whose name is on the deed, rightie trolls). But it's been the campaign's response and even his personal response when questioned about him not knowing how many homes he and Cindy share!
Here is a beaut from McCain in a debate 30 years ago:
“I wish I could have had the luxury, like you, of growing up and living and spending my entire life in a nice place like the first district of Arizona, but I was doing other things,” he said. “As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi.”
not because I wanted to get a house when I got out.
Well, dumping your crippled wife for a 24 year old babe whose felonious father just happened to have bags of money and tons of Republican influence in Arizona (where you never lived previously) seems to have worked okay for you, Johnny...
BTW, Johnny, exactly how many houses DO you own?
U.S. Senator Sam Brownback read the following letter on behalf of John McCain at the March for Life in Washington, D.C. on the 35th Anniversary of the Roe vs. Wade Decision.
Dear Fellow Pro-Lifers,
I join you today in marking the 35th anniversary of the tragic Roe vs. Wade decision made on January 22, 1973. I salute you for taking the time to show that the cause of Life is alive and well in the hearts of millions of Americans.
As a prisoner of war at the hands of a communist dictatorship, I saw firsthand the perils faced when human dignity and human life are not respected.
Respect for life? Like Ms. Palin, who abandons her down syndrome afflicted baby, and other children, to run for the most demanding job in the world?
Republican respect for human life: It's born, kick it out of the nest.
In an interview with KDKA radio in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, John McCain POW-POW-POWed when asked about charges that he's an elitist who's out of touch with the American worker on kitchen-table issues.
He's reticent to talk about it.
When McCain, referring to Woodstock, said, "I was tied up at the time" at the debate, I thought it was a good, effective joke.
But when he said on This Week, "I did have a period of time where I didn’t have very good government health care" to dodge a legitimate question, I winced at McCain's exploitation of his POW experience. And, unfortunately, he keeps exploiting it.