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MSNBC poll about Obama's "lipstick on a pig" comment precluded exoneration of Obama or assessment of McCain reaction

September 10, 2008 11:55 am ET

SUMMARY: MSNBC.com conducted a poll September 9 asking readers "Do you think Sen. Barack Obama went too far with his 'lipstick on a pig' remark?" Not only did the poll frame the question in a way that baselessly presumed Obama was referring to Gov. Sarah Palin, but MSNBC did not offer readers the opportunity to respond that Obama did not go "too far" or to criticize the McCain campaign's reaction to the comments.

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After Sen. John McCain's campaign accused Sen. Barack Obama of making a reference to Gov. Sarah Palin when he said during a campaign stop: "You can put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig," MSNBC.com conducted a September 9 poll asking readers "Do you think Sen. Barack Obama went too far with his 'lipstick on a pig' remark?" Not only did the poll frame the question in a way that baselessly presumed Obama was referring to Palin, but MSNBC did not offer readers the opportunity to respond that Obama did not go "too far" because the expression is common in political rhetoric, because both Obama and McCain have used it in the past, or because the Obama campaign said he was not drawing comparison to Palin when he made the remark. Nor did the poll offer respondents an opportunity to assess the McCain campaign's conduct in accusing Obama of sexism.

The options for responding to the September 9 MSNBC.com poll were:

  • Yes, he has crossed the line this time.
  • No, this is just part of the rough-and-tumble of political campaigning.
  • I don't know.

By contrast, the conservative website WorldNetDaily (WND) conducted a similar online poll, asking readers: "What do you think of Obama's 'lipstick on a pig' remark?" But the WND poll offered several responses that included the possibility that Obama was not referring to Palin and included the option of criticizing the McCain campaign. Indeed, the first four options in WND's poll were:

  • Oh, for heaven's sake, it was obviously an innocent metaphor
  • It's just an old saying and one both he and McCain have used before
  • It has nothing to do with Sarah Palin
  • It's shocking McCain supporters are trying to turn this into an attack on Palin
— D.C.P.
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    • Author by anotheramerican (September 10, 2008 12:00 pm ET)
         
      I love it when MMFA uses WND as a good example! 
      Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (September 10, 2008 12:05 pm ET)
           
        In this case the source is irrelevant.  The question and answers (and our collective common sense) are all that matters.  The first asked a biased question.  The second poll, less so.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 10, 2008 12:11 pm ET)
             
          I think Barney "loves it" when he finds a potato chip shaped like Spongebob Squarepants or somebody jingles their car keys.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Graydogs (September 10, 2008 4:24 pm ET)
               
            Now now Col....be nice to those who are not allowed to write with sharp objects...all they have are their crayons and their keyboards.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 10, 2008 12:32 pm ET)
           

        We're still waiting for you to show us the "lies" spread about Palin, AA.  I linked in the other thread the source of McCain's 90% w/Bush number.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 10, 2008 12:50 pm ET)
             
          Fried, it's time to move on, my friend. Those were Barney's Tuesday edition lies. He's busy dropping off Wednesday's batch now.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (September 10, 2008 3:23 pm ET)
             

          Fried,

          I am flattered that you remembered. Sorry to keep you waiting. I must have missed you asking yet another question to which you already know the answer. But constant references to earlier day's posts seems to me to be a bit obsessive.

          No matter. To answer the reference about lies regarding Palin, how about the supposed Palin attempts at book banning I've saw floating around here these past two weeks. Obviously untrue. Or that Palin belonged to that Alaska secession party? Or that Palin lied about cancelling the bridge to nowhere. Or the lie that Palin fired someone for not firing her ex brother in law.  Eventually these will sort themselves out. I'm sure MMFA will bring them back up if it can.

          What is also funny is that MMFA and the Obama campaign in their attempt to associate McCain with Bush is that they leave out that Obama votes 95%  of the time with the Democrat leadership.  

          Hope that clarifies my thinking. If I don't get back to you or this thread, my apologies. There's always tomorrow. 

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 10, 2008 3:37 pm ET)
               

            Tough to argue with all of that evidence.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (September 10, 2008 3:54 pm ET)
               

            I guess you think it's also a lie that the press says she wasn't in Iraq a year before Obama was (even though she didn't get a passport until last year) or that the refueling stop in Ireland was just a refueling stop and not a visit to a foreign country?

            I'll post this refution of your claims, but you already made it clear you aren't interested in facts...

            Report Abuse
          • Author by j_luthergoober (September 10, 2008 4:24 pm ET)
               
            When was the last time you charged a per diem to sleep in your own bed there AA???
            Report Abuse
          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 10, 2008 6:09 pm ET)
               

            AA,

            To answer the reference about lies regarding Palin,

            "how about the supposed Palin attempts at book banning I've saw floating around here these past two weeks. Obviously untrue." 

            The email list was obviously a lie, but:

            "Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor."

            http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

            "Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so."

            According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn't fully support her and had to go." 

            She didn't end up firing the woman, but the inquiry was made.

            http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html

            Looks like you are 0-1 

            Or that Palin belonged to that Alaska secession party?

            The head of the party said she was a member and:

            "Video footage shows AIP Vice Chairman Dexter Clark describing Palin at the 2007 North American Secessionist Convention as an "AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town -- that was a nonpartisan job. But you get along to go along. She eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won't go into that."

            She also addressed the party and encouraged them to keep up the good work. I can't imagine how offended you would be if Obama had done something similar  Here is her address to them:

            http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah-palin-to-alaskan-secessionists.html

            Or that Palin lied about cancelling the bridge to nowhere. 

            She kept the money and only wanted it cancelled after it was unpopular.  She flip-flopped AA.

            http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-31-palin-bridge_N.htm

            http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

            Or the lie that Palin fired someone for not firing her ex brother in law. 

            Troopergate?

            http://www.adn.com/politics/story/510080.html

            After initially denying that her staff had brought pressure to have the trooper, Mike Wooten, who was involved in a child custody dispute with Palin's sister, dismissed, Palin had to reverse course after an audio recording emerged in which Frank Bailey, the governor's director of boards and commissions, urged the dismissal of the trooper. 

            What is also funny is that MMFA and the Obama campaign in their attempt to associate McCain with Bush is that they leave out that Obama votes 95%  of the time with the Democrat leadership.  

            Ummmmm, you said you wanted a source, AA, I gave you one.  You were the one saying McCain and Bush were different.

            I await your rebuttal and I want evidence, not your "Republicans can do no wrong" mantra.

            Report Abuse
    • Author by tommy (September 10, 2008 12:00 pm ET)
         
      So now news organizations are conducting polls about "lipstick on a pig"?  If they haven't jumped the shark and rendered themselves nothing short of disgraceful, then they are damn close.  Oi......
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Brian in FL (September 10, 2008 12:50 pm ET)
           

        Thank God we have no real problems in our country or around the world to focus on.

        I can't wait for the parade of pundits on every station giving their commentary on a throw-away "lipstick on a pig" line.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by snoopy (September 10, 2008 12:06 pm ET)
         

      I'm just amazed that Barack would use such an obviously sexist phrase. That was pretty damn stupid of him. I mean, no one has ever heard that phrase before! That new phrase obviously refers to sarah palin, no doubt about it. I did some research and proved it:

      For Immediate Release
      Office of the Vice President
      November 1, 2004
      Vice President's Remarks in Honolulu, Hawaii
      Hawaii Convention Center
      Honolulu, Hawaii

      THE VICE PRESIDENT: In the first debate, this year, Senator Kerry said America had to meet some kind of "global test" before we could take military action.
      AUDIENCE: Booo!
      THE VICE PRESIDENT: The President and I know better than that. We know that it is not our job to conduct international opinion polls. Our job is to defend America. (Applause.)
      Now, in the closing days of this campaign, John Kerry is running around talking tough. He's trying every which way to cover up his record of weakness on national defense. But he can't do it. It won't work. As we like to say in Wyoming, you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig. (Applause.)
      That's one of my favorite lines. (Laughter.) You want to hear it again?
      AUDIENCE: Yes!
      THE VICE PRESIDENT: As we say in Wyoming -- (laughter) -- you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig. (Applause.) This is a great crowd. (Applause.) All right.
      AUDIENCE: Cheney! Cheney! Cheney! (Applause.)

       

      For Immediate Release
      Office of the Vice President
      October 15, 2004
      Remarks by the Vice President at a Victory 2004 Rally
      Deltaplex Entertainment & Expo Center
      Grand Rapids, Michigan

      THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right, what are you guys doing for the next 18 days? (Laughter and applause.) You saw John Kerry Wednesday night trying to back off that idea of a "global test." That notion fits with his whole career, but he doesn't want us to know about his whole career. He is trying to hide it, to cover it up by using a little tough talk during the course of this campaign. But you can't do that. It won't work. To use a phrase that we like in our home state of Wyoming, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. (Applause.)


      For Immediate Release
      Office of the Vice President
      October 30, 2004
      Vice President's Remarks in Zanesville, Ohio
      Hallowed Hills Conference Center
      Zanesville, Ohio

      THE VICE PRESIDENT: The President and I know better than that. We know that it is not our job to conduct international opinion polls, our job is to defend America. (Applause.) Now in the closing days of this campaign, John Kerry is trying every which way to cover up his record of weakness on national defense. But he can't do it. It won't work. As we like to say in Wyoming, you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig but at the end of the day, it's still a pig. (Laughter and applause.) That's my favorite line. (Laughter.) Want to hear it again? AUDIENCE: Yes! THE VICE PRESIDENT: As we say in Wyoming -- (laughter) -- you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig, but at the end of the day, it's still a pig. (Applause.)

      The spouse whose job Alaska's First Dude Todd Palin hopes to get, Second Lady Lynne Cheney, also likes the expression:


      Remarks of Mrs. Cheney and the Vice President Following a Debate Watching Party
      Embassy Suites Hotel
      Coraopolis, Pennsylvania
      October 13, 2004
      10:47 P.M. EDT

      MRS. CHENEY: Was our man great tonight? (Applause.) This is the President that has made us proud for four years, and he will make us proud for the next four. (Applause.)
      Now, I did have a chance to assess John Kerry once more. And the only thing I could conclude is this is not a good man. This is not a good man. And of course, I am speaking as a mom and a pretty indignant mom. This is not a good man -- what a cheap and tawdry political trick. (Applause.)
      You know what he has been doing for this whole campaign is trying to dress up his political record any way he can; trying to hide, obscure, make sure we don't notice that 20-year record in the Senate. And didn't the President do a great job of bringing it out? (Applause.)
      John Kerry tries to put a bunch of fancy, fancy talk -- tried to disguise that record, sort of like his fancy haircut, fancy manicure, tried to disguise the whole thing. (Laughter.) But there is nothing you can do to really -- to really obscure that record. You can try, though. And in Wyoming, we've got a saying for what it is when you keep trying to make something that's not so good look good, we call it putting lipstick on a pig. (Laughter.) Yes. (Applause.) And it doesn't work.
      It doesn't work, does it, Mr. Vice President? You're on. (Applause.)

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (September 10, 2008 12:16 pm ET)
           

        Obviously doctored transcripts, Snoopy. We all know that the expression didn't exist until a week ago. It's obvious that Cheney wasn't referring to Palin. There is no question that everything in the past, present and future is just as Fox News tells us it was, is and shall be.Nobody can argue against the fact that the wingnut posters here override all reality with their mind-reading and self-hypnotic elimination of history and reality.

        Gooba-Gabba Gooba-Gabba

        Report Abuse
        • Author by snoopy (September 10, 2008 12:21 pm ET)
             

          Obama should say it loud and clear every day now, it's clear it gets under their skin!

          McCain vs. Obama

          Report Abuse
    • Author by shaggles (September 10, 2008 12:35 pm ET)
         
      What's with MSNBC and the polls lately.  Only negative answers for Obama and only positive for McCain yet the right seems to think MSNBC is in the tank for Obama.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by donaldmaddog5642 (September 10, 2008 12:37 pm ET)
         
      Ah, COL, "there's the rub". Your list of catch phrases by the right sums it up exactly. As for me, I haven't spent ALL of my time lately at MMFA. In my wider readings I see that Guv. Palin is admired and even loved by huge numbers of adoring, moronic fans. She has effectively deflected attention away from Gran' Dad so that he can continue to say whatever mindless drivel he wants. "Nobody can argue against the fact" that Obama meant a slur toward St. Sara of Alaska. Only a righteous Republican fatwa can put a stop to these unbelievers who dare disrespect their sacred Sara. "We all know" that Barack Hussien Obama, being a Muslim, has little regard for women. "There is no question" that he resents holy motherhood. Let me add that "the facts speak for themselves."
      Report Abuse
    • Author by historygeek001 (September 10, 2008 1:07 pm ET)
         
      Durn librul press at MSNBC.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by steve1528 (September 10, 2008 8:59 pm ET)
         

      It is the republicans way to try and keep the real problems facing our country hidden.

      It will not work this time, nor will the Fear factor 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by semiarid (September 10, 2008 9:55 pm ET)
         

      Well, I think the goopers are just yanking the pig's chain, it is a lot more fun for them now than a couple of months ago. The Palin pick released a lot of pent-up gooper anxiety (oh, that's what the funny smell is) but has no real substance IMO. This nonsense about lipstick is just more of the same - insubstantial kiddy play. Why hasn't the MSM handled this with professionalism? Are they too commercialized? 

      Report Abuse
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