Citing no evidence, AP's Pickler purported to know how audience interpreted Obama's remark
SUMMARY: In an article regarding Sen. Barack Obama's recent comment about Sen. John McCain's policies -- "[Y]ou can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig" -- AP's Nedra Pickler baselessly asserted that Obama's audience "clearly dr[ew] a connection to [Gov. Sarah] Palin's joke even if it's not what Obama meant." However, Pickler provided no evidence for her assessment of the audience's reaction, and, indeed, the interpretation by New York Times reporter Jeff Zeleny of the audience's reaction was completely different.
In a September 10 article discussing Sen. Barack Obama's recent comment about Sen. John McCain's policies -- "[Y]ou can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig" -- Associated Press reporter Nedra Pickler referred to Gov. Sarah Palin's "joke in her acceptance speech that lipstick is the only thing that separates a hockey mom like her from a pit bull" and baselessly asserted that Obama's audience "clearly dr[ew] a connection to Palin's joke even if it's not what Obama meant." However, Pickler provided no evidence for her assessment of the audience's reaction, and, indeed, the interpretation by New York Times reporter Jeff Zeleny of the audience's reaction was completely different from Pickler's. Zeleny wrote in a September 10 article that "to those in the audience, it was clear that Mr. Obama was employing an age-old phrase -- lipstick on a pig -- and referring to Mr. McCain's policies. He had not yet mentioned Ms. Palin at that point of his speech."
By contrast, The Washington Post actually asked audience members what they thought Obama's comment meant:
Obama's lipstick line thrilled the crowd in a steamy high school gymnasium in rural southwest Virginia. A half-dozen supporters said afterward that Palin's own lipstick comment was not the first thought that came to mind, although a few said it was not out of the question that Obama was trying to make that connection.
"I didn't really take it that way. Probably should have," said Jeffrey Brown, a fervent Obama supporter from Belfast, Va., who describes himself as a Christian from the lower middle class. "Look, these campaigns are mean. We know that. Things get slung around."
JoAnn Vicars, a retired Bristol police employee, thought Obama's remark was great: "Loved it!" She and several friends scoffed at the idea that Obama was talking about Palin.
"That's the way we talk, buddy," Vicars said, in a raspy local accent.
Brown, in any event, figures on adding the lipstick line to his own political repertoire.
"I thought it was awesome," [Obama supporter Jeffrey] Brown said. "It's the truth, for one thing. I'm going to start using it right now as I campaign for him."
From the September 10 New York Times article:
"John McCain says he's about change, too -- except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics," Mr. Obama told his supporters here. "That's just calling the same thing something different."
With a laugh, he added: "You can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change; it's still going to stink after eight years."
In the latest sign of the campaign's heightened intensity, Mr. McCain's surrogates responded within minutes and called on Mr. Obama to apologize to Gov. Sarah Palin for the lipstick remark. But to those in the audience, it was clear that Mr. Obama was employing an age-old phrase -- lipstick on a pig -- and referring to Mr. McCain's policies. He had not yet mentioned Ms. Palin at that point of his speech.
From Pickler's September 10 AP article:
What's the difference between the presidential campaign before and after the national political conventions? Lipstick. The colorful cosmetic has become a political buzzword, thanks to Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's joke in her acceptance speech that lipstick is the only thing that separates a hockey mom like her from a pit bull.
Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama told an audience Tuesday that GOP presidential nominee John McCain says he'll change Washington, but he's just like President Bush.
"You can put lipstick on a pig," he said to an outbreak of laughter, shouts and raucous applause from his audience, clearly drawing a connection to Palin's joke even if it's not what Obama meant. "It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still going to stink after eight years."
McCain's campaign called the comments "offensive and disgraceful" and said Obama owes Palin an apology. Obama's campaign said he wasn't referring to Palin and said the GOP camp was engaging in a "pathetic attempt to play the gender card." Obama's camp also noted that McCain once used the same phrase to describe Hillary Rodham Clinton's health care plan.
Obama followed up by saying Palin is an interesting story, drawing boos at the mention of her name that he tried to cut off.
"Look, she's new, she hasn't been on the scene, she's got five kids. And my hat goes off to anybody whose [sic] looking after five. I've got two and they tire Michelle and me out," he said.
In Virginia, a questioner asked Obama to join Republicans and agree that candidates' families and religion are off limits. Palin's pregnant teenage daughter and the teachings of her church, the nondenominational Wasilla Bible Church, have been the subject of scrutiny since McCain picked her as his running mate.
Obama responded that he already has said families are off limits and he's very protective of his daughters, 10-year-old Malia and 7-year-old Sasha. He said he doesn't want their inevitable future mistakes to become newspaper fodder if he gets to the White House.
Obama also is no stranger to attacks on his religion. He's been the subject of a false rumor campaign saying he's a Muslim, and the racially tinged sermons of his longtime former preacher caused problems for his campaign earlier this year.
He stressed that he's a Christian and "so the fact that Gov. Palin is deeply religious, that's a good thing." He said poking around in her religion or saying it's wrong is "offensive" and he wants to have a debate about the issues.
"But don't give people some sort of religious litmus test because I don't want somebody to question my faith and I'm certainly not going to question somebody else's," he said.















To be fair, and I mean FAIR, I'm sure the audience did think about Palin. But the interpretation was probably not "he just called her a pig" but rather "two can play game, making pithy comments about lipatick." I saw it as just a way of taking something Palin said an turning it around. Kinds of like what McCain has tried to do with "CHANGE" or "HONOR" and the latest: "TEMPERMENT." (!) McCain tries to twist Obama's word around and use them for himself all the time. That all Obama did here, he just had some WIT as to how he went about it. I thought it was great.
(BTW - It's so bad lately how McCain can seem to describe himself without stealing words from Obama, that I swear if Obama came out and said "I'm the only candidate with enough schnoogleblatt to lead this country" you'd hear McCain describing himself as the REAL schnoogleblatt candidate!)
"But the interpretation was probably not "he just called her a pig"
Personally I am finding it absolutely HILARIOUS that the R's immediately jumped to the conclusion that Palin = a pig. They must have a LOT of respect (/sarcasm) for their presumptive VP nominee, don't you think?
Yes, they really are mind readers...
Ed: "5 dimes, a couple of pennies, a Susan B Anthony dollar, a subway token and a couple of Chuck E Cheese coins."
Johnny: "What is the change the Republicans are thinking about bringing to American citizens?"
Um.....Colonel sir.....
We know what we know and we know what we don't know and we know that we know what we don't know and know what is known by those that should know and know that they don't know what they know they don't know.......
Ya know?
p.s. The WMD's are North, West, East, and South of Tikrit and all the surrounding area's, but we know that they don't know that we know we don't know!
UUUGGGHHHHH!!!
I need a drink...........................
"clearly drawing a connection to Palin's joke even if it's not what Obama meant"
This is MMFA's beef within a very fair article? It clearly did draw a connection simply by the word "lipstick", what evidence does MMFA require? And it clearly was not what Obama meant, so the statement in question is accurate.
Of course the McCain campaign ran with it knowing full well, I believe, what Obama meant. That is the real sliminess in all of this, and they know that too, and don't seem to care.
It clearly did draw a connection simply by the word "lipstick"
Surely you're joking. So any mention of the word "lipstick" is now a reference to Sarah Palin? Don't be silly.
I'm prepared to assume simpy based on averages and probabilities that there were some in the audience who thought of Palin. But for Pickler to say that the audience broke out in "laughter, shouts and raucous applause" because were "clearly drawing a connection" to Palin is not only absurd on its face, it wasn't even supported by her own reporting.
What I think happened is that Pickler made the connection and well, if she did then of course everyone else must have. Even if they say they didn't.
1) What does it matter what conclusion the crowd drew? Obama's intention was to point out the paucity of real, significant difference between the potential McCain presidency and actual Bush effort. If Obama had given this speech to a crowd of non-English speakers, the reaction would have been different, but the intent would have been the same. The crowd is not running for president.
2) Unless one asks the crowd individually and specifically, their personal reactions are unknowable and so speculation about them is utterly pointless.
I'll try and be funnier next time. This is just getting on my wick.
What does it matter what conclusion the crowd drew? Obama's intention was to point out the paucity of real, significant difference between the potential McCain presidency and actual Bush effort. If Obama had given this speech to a crowd of non-English speakers, the reaction would have been different, but the intent would have been the same. The crowd is not running for president.
Exactly. What the crowd may have read into the remark is irrelevant. Even if Obama despises Palin, he's not dumb enough to go stumping around calling her a pig. It's ridiculous. At most, he simply used the little cliche, that went over so well when Palin used it, to his own advantage. That's it. It's incredibly asinine to think he intended otherwise.
I usually get a kick out of the dumb sh!t that compaigns throw at each other, but Maverick's campaign is really insulting common sense with this one
Obama made a remark that had nowt to do with Palin. The crowd may have interpreted it as such, or they may not. As far as gleaning Obama's attitude towards women is concerned, it. Doesn't. Matter.
The context is important too. Considering what Obama was talking about, I find it hard to believe that anyone listening to him really thought he was referencing Palin. If someone woke up from a nap just in time to hear "lipstick", then that person might get the wrong idea. That's pretty negligible.
You can't second-guess or expand on every single word you say, or you'll sound like an idiot anyway. "Um...uh...and...you know I'm talking about policy, right? Not talking about Palin...just making sure you get that...where was I?"
There's no rational basis for criticism here, so nobody can blame Obama for not thinking "lipstick...oh, some people might think I'm talking about Palin, even though that doesn't match up with what I'm saying...but I guess I'd better come up with another analogy, just in case."
Tommy, I think he should come out with guns blazing at the media and Maverick. As mentioned, both are banking on the public being pretty damn dumb to think he compared Palin to a pig.
If I were in Obama's shoes, I wouldnt admonish the audience at all. Although I do think at least some in the audience, who began giggling before the punchline, had Palin in mind, I'd leave it alone. He can't go around presuming the worst in his audiences. He should presume they knew what he meant
It's also entirely possible that people giggled because they found the phrase "lipstick on a pig" to be humorous by itself.
Bet you really roll on the floor when you hear "Take my wife.... please!"...
Fact is it's a common expression. Obama, I'm sure, had no intention to call Palin a pig. It's his audience and their reaction that spurred it on more than anything else. watch the soundbite clip. They were beside themselves over it and it's probably they, more than anything that gave this little nugget the impetus it needed to turn into a media feeding frenzy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR8IhMMhe8w
Yeah, McCain's delivery is all wrong.
No, not a big fan of that particular Henny Youngman line. He has better stuff, though.
Some things just sound funnier than others. It's a big part of how some things catch on and others don't. It is an old expression, and maybe the humor of it is why it's still around. I'm just saying that laughing at that line doesn't mean the audience was thinking about it in reference to Palin.
Steve,
My point is that lipstick is not a word heard very often in political campaigns. Palin's line in her acceptance speech was looped endlessly, and then less than a week later Obama uses the same word in a speech. Of course, when heard in context it had nothing to do with Palin, but perception is important.
McCain's campaign shamelessly used it, expolited it, twisted it, and their phony outrage was sickening. Nevertheless, there was a "connection", and in my opinion, the author of this piece was not jumping to any conclusion in stating that.
"While I agree with both of you on Obama's intent and the stupidity of this whole non-issue, audience's reaction and their perception is important. Crowds may not be running for the job, but they are the ones who do the voting."
Isn't the vast majority of the "audience" going to hear what he said in context? Or are you talking about the general public?
It might have triggered that connection, but whether people reacted to that or what he actually meant is not clear. They might get a brief recollection of Palin, but brush it off because it's got nothing to do with the context. We don't really know.
It helps to validate the criticism against Obama. Even the people he was talking to thought he was talking about Palin, right?
""You can put lipstick on a pig," he said to an outbreak of laughter, shouts and raucous applause from his audience, clearly drawing a connection to Palin's joke even if it's not what Obama meant."
That pretty clearly suggests that the audience took it to be about Palin. The reaction of the audience is directly tied to Palin's joke.
"The reaction of the audience is directly tied to Palin's joke"
Now you are assuming what the author said, she said a connection was made, she made no reference as to the direct or indirect connection at all....you can extrapolate that to mean "directly tied" if you want, but I don't.
I have stated my opinion on why I believe it is a logical assumption to make that a connection was made when two opposing politicians use such a rarely heard campaign word such as "lipstick", less than a week apart. If you don't see it, or agree with MMFA, so be it.
"Now you are assuming what the author said, she said a connection was made, she made no reference as to the direct or indirect connection at all....you can extrapolate that to mean "directly tied" if you want, but I don't."
I was talking about Pickler's phrasing. She made a direct connection between the reaction and Palin's joke. What I'm saying is that helps to justify Republican reaction to it, since supposedly even people who were there thought he was referencing Palin to some degree or other.
Tommy,
It was incredible political tone deafness on Obama's part to use the phrase 'lipstick on a pig' while attacking McCain and Palin when Palin used the term 'lipstick' as a punchline to describe herself.
It is a gaffe reminiscent of Kerry's "I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it" or Trent Lott's 100th birthday toast to Strom Thurmond. No matter what they meant, it just came out all wrong.
AA,
Tone deaf or not, McCain ought to be ashamed of himself, and that is the real issue for me. He is fast losing any respect I had for him with slimy campaign tactics like this.
Tommy,
I thought you had already lost respect for McCain. :-)
To use another analogy. The real problem is not McCain's highlighting this gaffe, it is that as far as the campaign goes, Obama brought a knife to a gunfight.
Brab,
Of course one can use the term lipstick all day long as long as it doesn't smear. ;-)
I think 23/6 has it right. We should probably go with Palin's description of herself. What do y'all think?
SHAME! McCain using Obama to call Sarah a "pig with lipstick"
Sarah Palin called herself a "pitbull with lipstick." Yesterday, the McCain campaign slyly misinterpreted Barack Obama's comments so they could call Sarah Palin a "pig with lipstick." Who's right, McCain or Palin? Tell us in the comments!
Snoop,
I think you are barking up the wrong tree.
I found an earlier reference to the "lipstick on a pig" remark while doing a Google search to learn its origin. This excerpt from a 1985 newspaper article predates Ann Richards version, which involved putting lipstick on a hog and calling it Monique:
San Francisco Tries To Keep Baseball Raiders at Bay
City Intent on Keeping Giants -- And Its Money
By Jay Mathews Washington Post Staff Writer.
SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 15 -- KNBR, the AM radio station carrying the Giants
baseball games, had raised $20,000 toward the construction of a new downtown stadium. The board of supervisors, reluctant to commit to such a project, asked if they couldn't use the money to renovate Candlestick Park.
"That," replied KNBR personality Ron Lyons, "Would be like putting lipstick
on a pig."
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0408a&L=ads-l&P=14910
Pickler isn't the only collective-mind reader, so are Jake Tapper, Ben Smith and GEOFF EARLE:
http://radamisto.blogspot.com/2008/09/another-mind-reader.html