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MSNBC's Hall, Harwood allowed McCain campaign's DuHaime to set up false "contrast" between Palin and Obama on earmarks

September 11, 2008 7:17 pm ET

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SUMMARY: MSNBC hosts Tamron Hall and John Harwood did not challenge the false "contrast" that McCain campaign political director Mike DuHaime purported to draw between Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and Sen. Barack Obama on earmarks. DuHaime claimed that Palin has "cut half a billion dollars in spending when she was governor using her veto," whereas Obama has "asked for a billion dollars in earmarks." In fact, Palin, by her own account, has requested hundreds of millions of dollars in earmarks for Alaska in her two years as governor.

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On the September 9 edition of MSNBC Live, co-hosts Tamron Hall and John Harwood did not challenge the false "contrast" that McCain campaign political director Mike DuHaime purported to draw between Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and Sen. Barack Obama on earmarks. DuHaime claimed that Palin has "cut half a billion dollars in spending when she was governor using her veto," whereas Obama has "asked for a billion dollars in earmarks." In fact, Palin, by her own account, has requested hundreds of millions of dollars in earmarks for Alaska in her two years as governor, and according to The Seattle Times, her earmark requests this year* amounted to "more, per person, than any other state." Hall and Harwood also did not dispute DuHaime's false claim that Palin "saved the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars" by "kill[ing] the Bridge to Nowhere." *

Since becoming governor of Alaska, Palin reportedly requested at least $254 million in earmarks in 2007 and $197 million in 2008, totaling at least $451 million, or an average of $330 per person each year based on Alaska's estimated 2007 population of 683,478. By contrast, since becoming a U.S. senator, Obama has reportedly requested $853.3 million in earmarks for Illinois, a figure that "exclud[es] earmark requests for national programs, such as breast cancer research"; he has reportedly requested a total of $931.3 million in earmarks over his Senate career. The figures include earmarks Obama requested in 2005, 2006, and 2007 (for the subsequent fiscal years); he reportedly requested no earmarks in 2008 (for fiscal year 2009). Based on Illinois' estimated population for 2005, 2006, and 2007 (12,719,550, 12,777,042, and 12,852,548, respectively), Obama's earmark requests for Illinois since taking office amount to an average of approximately $17 per person, per year. Using the higher overall earmark request total, which includes earmarks for national programs, Obama has requested an average of approximately $18 in earmarks per Illinois resident, per year.

While both Hall and Harwood noted that Palin initially supported the "Bridge to Nowhere," neither corrected DuHaime's false assertion that when Palin "killed the Bridge to Nowhere ... [i]t saved the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars." In fact, Palin reportedly kept the federal funds for Alaska that had been originally designated for the bridge, so its termination "saved" federal taxpayers nothing -- it meant that the federal government's money was spent on other Alaskan transportation projects. Indeed, the press release announcing Palin's decision against "proceeding any further with the proposed $398 million bridge" outlined her plans to do just that:

The Department of Transportation has approximately $36 million in federal funds that will become available for other projects with the shutdown of the Gravina Island bridge project. Governor Palin has directed Commissioner Leo von Scheben to review transportation projects statewide to prepare a list of possible uses for the funds, while the department also looks for a more affordable answer for Gravina Island access.

DuHaime was responding to Hall's statement that "[w]e know there's a new ad saying that she [Palin] originally supported it [the Bridge to Nowhere project] before she was against it" and that PolitiFact.com had said "earlier today [on MSNBC] ... that her statement about not supporting it is 'barely true.' "

From the 2 p.m. ET hour of MSNBC Live on September 9:

HALL: Of course, we're pointing out -- you're pointing out a lot about the enthusiasm, but the Obama campaign and their surrogates are pushing back against Palin. For example, they're talking about this Bridge to Nowhere. We know there's a new ad saying that she originally supported it before she was against it. We had PolitiFact on earlier today saying that her statement about not supporting it is "barely true." Are you concerned about the discrepancy, and why is the campaign choosing to follow this line for the Governor Palin when there's been so much pushback including, again, from PolitiFact.com?

DuHAIME: Well, listen, at the end of the day, she killed the Bridge to Nowhere. She absolutely did. It saved the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. She killed it. There's no doubt. That is an indisputable fact. So --

HARWOOD: It was a long day before the end, though, Mike.

DuHAIME: Listen, the bottom line -- you see the Democrats, what they're talking about, you know, they want to attack Governor Palin. And we understand it. That's the -- I guess this is the new kind of politics that Senator Obama has talked about. Just attack, no matter what, at the end of the day, the ultimate facts are.

So, she killed it. She's somebody who, you know, cut half a billion dollars in spending when she was governor using her veto. Compare that with Barack Obama, who asked for a billion dollars in earmarks. I mean, this is an unbelievable contrast. If they want a contrast on who's more fiscally responsible --

HALL: But Mike, is that really an attack? Because we see Governor Palin -- she, from the convention up until today, has continued to -- and, I mean, I'm sure your supporters feel rightfully so -- point out the differences between the campaigns and point out the things that she feels are wrong about Senator Obama. So is it an attack when the Obama campaign comes back out and says, "Listen, that Bridge to Nowhere, which she is using as a rallying cry, she supported at one point in time"? Is that really an attack?

DuHAIME: Well, I mean, I think the bottom line is, they're trying -- if they want to have a conversation about who is more fiscally responsible, I think we can have that conversation. It's one that Governor Palin would win every day against Senator Obama or Senator Biden. They have not -- they have shown no fiscal restraint. Their plans for higher taxes, more government spending. If they want to have that conversation and they want to point to one specific project that she actually killed at the end of the day, then we can have that conversation. I think that it's one that we'll win every time.

HARWOOD: Mike, let's talk about the map for a second. I think both sides would probably agree Alaska has dramatically fallen off the table because of Sarah Palin. Barack Obama had played there before. What other states do you think she specifically changes the dynamic on in a way that helps your candidate?

DuHAIME: Well, she changes it in almost every state in a positive way. I think you can look at some very specific states like Pennsylvania, like Michigan, where you're going to have a great deal of enthusiasm in the base, but at the same time, Governor Palin reinforces Senator McCain's well-deserved reputation as an independent, as a maverick. And I think in some of those suburban areas that, you know, had not always been comfortable voting Republican, I think they're going to see a pair here in Senator McCain and Governor Palin who are truly independent, truly reformers, truly mavericks.

We've seen increases across the board, but I think in some of those battleground states that maybe people thought were leaning Democrat, I think are moving back toward our direction, and that's a very good sign for us.

HARWOOD: How long does this bump last? When does it fade and settle back again?

DuHAIME: Well, we'll see. Right now, I mean, I hope it's lasting. Certainly, we feel very good right now. But this is a race that we've always thought would be very close, and I think it's going to be close right down to Election Day. I think we're well-positioned right now, but we know it's going to be close right down to the very end.

HARWOOD: Mike, thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you again soon.

*Correction: This item previously stated that The Seattle Times reported that Palin's earmark requests during her two years as governor were "more, per person, than any other state." In fact, the Times article reported that about only her 2008 earmark requests (for fiscal year 2009). Media Matters for America regrets the error.
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    • Author by obama4prez (September 11, 2008 7:34 pm ET)
         
      The right-wing machine is trying to paint this woman as the next coming of Ronald Reagan. Sad.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mr. l (September 12, 2008 12:33 pm ET)
           
        Hey, Solon!  Do you get your screen name from the old Greek (I think?) guy who gave Plato info?  I came across his name while perusing through a book on Edgar Cayce.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by funnymanpants (September 11, 2008 7:56 pm ET)
         

      Ugh! The reporters still can't get this story straight. Harwood says "Listen, that Bridge to Nowhere, which she is using as a rallying cry, she supported at one point in time." No. She *always* supported it. When she finally had to pull the plug, she didn't come out against its wastefullness; she actually *lamented* that congress didn't give her more money, and she criticized those who called it the bridge to nowhere. That is one of the reasons that last night, when she was back in Alaska, she didn't mention the phony line about the bridge to nowhere; Alaskans know better. 

      See:

      dailyhowler.com

      For the breadth of Palin's dishonesty, and the incompetence of the press in covering this story. For example, did you all know that when Palin was running for governor, the bridge was already seen as a national disgrace--and it was precisely at that time that she supported it! That would be something else valuable to know when discrediting Palin's phoniness. 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by loonz (September 11, 2008 8:36 pm ET)
         
      Alaska is a welfare state.  It gets almost two dollars in federal funding for every dollar it sends to the federal government.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (September 11, 2008 9:06 pm ET)
           

        As mayor of Wasilla, Palin got $4,000 per person in federal earmarks. As Governor, she got $300 per person in federal earmarks.

        Obama got $25 per person for his state.

        Yeah, Dems are bad...

        Couldn't resist!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by ukobserver (September 11, 2008 9:46 pm ET)
             
          Hey!! I thought republicans didn't like Welfare Queens?!?!?!?!?!?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by carlileb5935 (September 11, 2008 10:37 pm ET)
               

            Alaska is clearly a socialist state. Big windfall taxes, big income redistribution.

            I know-- it's insane-- and also insanity-inducing to hear these people then rail about liberals and Democrats and "big government."

            How do they get away with it? 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by neon desert (September 12, 2008 12:47 am ET)
                 

              To be fair to Alaskans, you have to keep in mind the difference in the cost of living. 

              I guess the oil companies really don't want to make up the difference with higher wages (eats into their profits, don't ya know), so Jeter and Col. Beach and JJ and everyone in-between helps out the oil companies by supplementing Alaskans' income to cover that higher COL.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by foghornleghorn (September 12, 2008 10:20 am ET)
                   

                You'd think with all the money Barbie got from the government, she could have done a better job with the city sewage system.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by neon desert (September 12, 2008 11:31 am ET)
                     
                  She built that herself, you know, using only native timber, nail clippers and a mascara brush, and saving the city millions of dollars.
                  Report Abuse
      • Author by wolf kotenberg (September 11, 2008 9:59 pm ET)
           
        that is true. I have two nephews living up there, nice kids well mannered but stay up there for the yearly oil revenue check they get. Basically " free money ". that is a lot of beer. this business about Palin getting alaskan natives a chunk of the pie is not quite true, She appears to imply she started it. Has been going on since about 1975 when oil started to flow thru the Alaske Pipeline.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by fawltylogic (September 11, 2008 11:35 pm ET)
           
        Pretty much like most of the other "red states", they get more than they give, yet the voters there are the most likely to lament the "welfare state". They talk the talk, they don't walk the walk.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by wolf kotenberg (September 11, 2008 9:55 pm ET)
         
      So who is the  rsponsible engiuneer ' here ? Palin or McCain ???
      Report Abuse
      • Author by neon desert (September 12, 2008 11:27 am ET)
           
        Sarah Palin engineered the roof structure for the proposed Boise State Broncodome.  Unfortunately, enough whale bone and seal skins to complete the structure proved too difficult to procure, and the funds were diverted instead to her playing surface re-design.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by gg (September 11, 2008 10:24 pm ET)
         
      No, she did not kill the Bridge to Nowhere, the Congress did; but what it is really about is money, our tax dollars, and she KEPT THE MONEY. At this point who cares how it was spent, the point was it was kept, by her.

      The real question that no one is asking, esp. in the media is why a small town of 7,000 people needed $27,000,000 in earmarks? What were they dongwith it, building the superconducter? That is almost $4000.00 for every man, woman and child in Wasilla (if my math is correct) now unless this town pays that much or more in federal taxes, that means they have gotten my share that could have gone to my home town. Again, like McCain, math is not not my strong suit; so if I am wrong I stand corrected.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by open_mind (September 11, 2008 11:16 pm ET)
           
        Your math is correct.  Good work.  Funny how a state full of conservatives would be the biggest beneficiaries of federal income redistribution per capita.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by mr. l (September 12, 2008 5:55 am ET)
           
        I lived up there for 7 years and Wasilla got a new super Wal-mart, a new Home Depot and a bunch of new used car dealerships.  Cost a pretty penny, I tell you!
        Report Abuse
      • Author by newzhound (September 12, 2008 9:01 am ET)
           
        GG:  And then there is the $20,000,000 in long-term debt the city took on while Sarah Palin was mayor.  When she started the city owed $0.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 7:47 am ET)
         

      The bounce continues...despite the valiant efforts by mmfa and others in the media to throw cold water on McCain's pick of Gov. Palin.

      The most recent polling data at Real Clear Politics has McCain leading 270 - 251 in the electoral college count...with Michigan in the balance. Obama's once comfortable lead in Michigan has eroded into a tie...Obama leads in one Michigan poll while McCain leads in another.

      And here's a little hint, but not from Heloise...yes I'm aware of the margins of error in each poll...so you can save some precious time in your day by skipping that lecture. 

      While I'm not willing to bet either jewel that McCain will win based on the current polling...what is abundantly clear is that McCain is trending upwards.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by skeptical (September 12, 2008 8:47 am ET)
           

        Hey Wes, I think you got your numbers wrong, it's Obama 273, McCain 265.

        NIce try though.  Also, I'm beginning to think that people like you only care about winning and losing and not what's best for the country. 

        I'm not happy with everything Obama says and does and I liked McCain in 2000.  But right now, who do you think will turn this country around?

        Also, Polls are meaningless.  Gore should have won according to the exit polls, so what does that tell you.

        Finally, I wouldn't be shocked if the general public (the majority of whom are good people but not very bright) elected McCain based on his smear campaign, but that doesn't mean he is the best person for the job.  We elected Bush twice and he was absolutely the worst person for the job, so again it all comes down to who can sway the "undecided" vote and if the past few elections are any indication, they will be swayed by lies, smears and negaive campaigning.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 9:25 am ET)
             

           -- I think you got your numbers wrong -- skep

          Nope...when you look at the most current polls in the battleground states...not the RCP average...McCain has surged ahead.

          I'm not interested in a running dialog about polling data...just pointing out that McCain's numbers are much improved from a couple of weeks ago.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by skeptical (September 12, 2008 9:38 am ET)
               

            Wes,

            That's the only thing you got out of my post?  Do you care to comment on anything else?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by skeptical (September 12, 2008 9:42 am ET)
                 

              Also Wes,

              The upturn in Poll numbers is directly related to Palin.  She provided a big bounce due to her being a woman and her nomination being a complete surprise.  Because of this, she will very quickly be "over" exposed and the real Sarah Palin will emerge. 

              At that point, we will see if she has been a positive or a negative to the campaign.

              Report Abuse
            • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 12, 2008 11:34 am ET)
                 
              He can't reply to you right now.  He's working the poll numbers with his Karl Rove "The Math" calculator.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 12, 2008 9:40 am ET)
               
            Wes - Skeptical is right.  You cited RealClearPolitics, but you misstated their current numbers.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 10:21 am ET)
                 
              Nope...do your homework on the current polls...you'll find McCain leading.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 12, 2008 11:09 am ET)
                   
                Not in the poll that counts, which is the electoral college.  Cook also has Obama ahead in the current count, and leading in the "leaning" category too.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 11:16 am ET)
                     

                   -- Not in the poll that counts, which is the electoral college. -- pyrrhonist

                  Sorry charlie...but McCain has opened a sizeable lead in the EC polling results...as found at RCP in the most current polls...270 - 251.

                  I'm sure you can find different results from different sites...but it's inescapable...McCain has surged since naming Gov. Palin as his running mate.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mefirst (September 12, 2008 11:35 am ET)
                       

                    here's real clear politics assessment on the e.c., essentially tied.

                    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by mefirst (September 12, 2008 11:37 am ET)
                         

                      or this with the tossups eliminated.

                      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10

                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 11:55 am ET)
                         

                      That's pretty good stuff...if you like to rely on polling data that is 1-2 months old.

                      Maybe they'll make more sense to you in Jan09.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (September 12, 2008 1:09 pm ET)
                           
                        what's one to two months old?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 1:10 pm ET)
                             
                          Your data.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mefirst (September 12, 2008 1:20 pm ET)
                               
                            actually no.  if a state has changed then it's listed as moving into another column, as recently as the last few days.  if it hasn't moved, the date it was listed is the position it still has. 
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 12, 2008 1:27 pm ET)
                                 
                              Wesley's numbers disregard margin of error, which renders the data meaningless.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 1:34 pm ET)
                                   

                                 -- And here's a little hint, but not from Heloise...yes I'm aware of the margins of error in each poll...so you can save some precious time in your day by skipping that lecture. -- from original post

                                I might have guessed it would be you who ignored my well intentioned advice...but that's what happens when one is broadcasting when he should be receiving...looks like WorrierKing won't be voting for you.

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by Pyrrhonist (September 12, 2008 1:38 pm ET)
                                     
                                  Wesley, You can ignore the margin of error, but polls are useless without it  What is with you anyway?  Why are you so angry?
                                  Report Abuse
                                • Author by mefirst (September 12, 2008 1:58 pm ET)
                                     
                                  wesley, are we talking about the same thing?  the rcl link shows the present electoral college map.  the numbers are current.  if a state has not moved from it's position, then it has not changed from several months ago. if a state has gone from, for example, leaning one way to toss up, that's noted. if not, then the position change does not need to be updated. it doesn't matter if it was put in that category two months ago,  it's still in the same category. it's nothing to do with margin of error.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by wesley (September 13, 2008 10:40 am ET)
                                       

                                    We're talking about the same site...RCP...but different looks.

                                    RCP computes an average of polls taken to determine the current leader...and many of the polls that they use are months old...skewing the current situation.

                                    I prefer to look at the current polling results...indicating the latest trend in public opinion.

                                    It matters little to me that you prefer to use old polling data...because either way...the polls are not predictors, they're just indicators.

                                    And they clearly indicate that McCain has trended up strongly since announcing Gov.Palin as his running mate.

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by mefirst (September 13, 2008 8:37 pm ET)
                                         
                                      nope, you said mccain had opened up a sizable lead in the electoral college, according to rcp.  i provided a link to rcp that had them at 217 obama to 216 mccain.  that was current as of the 11th, today they moved indiana from tossup to leaning mccain.  you brought the rcp site up, and i linked to what they were showing.  if their info is no good and not current, why'd you bring it up?
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by wesley (September 13, 2008 9:01 pm ET)
                                           

                                        Weasels always sneak back in the dark...old chinese proverb

                                        If you don't want to face the facts...your loss not mine. 

                                        I showed you where the info at RCP and Cook both had McCain with a lead...when you use the "current" polling data on the toss up states...which excludes those old polls that are no longer relevant.

                                        But unlike some that Obama refers to as clinging to their guns and relligion...you can be content clinging to your out dated polling data...yep, that suits me just fine.

                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by mefirst (September 13, 2008 11:07 pm ET)
                                             
                                          yep, you point to a site and claim it proves something, and then i provide a link to that very site and you claim it's out of date.  you wrote friday at 1116 am:  "sorry charlie...but mccain has opened a sizable lead in the ec polling results...as found at rcp in the most current polls 270-251".  i followed that with links to their current electoral college maps, one with tossups and one without, and neither said what you claimed.   my suggestion would be don't refer to a site, talk about their "most current polls", and then claim what's on the site is out of date when it doesn't say what you said it did.  as i just pointed out, they constantly update those maps, including today with indiana.  ok, mr. weasel? 
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by mefirst (September 13, 2008 11:13 pm ET)
                                               

                                            here's what happens when you go to the tossup map and click "ohio".  all polls from this month.  are those "out of date"? 

                                            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_obama-400.html

                                            Report Abuse
                                          • Author by wesley (September 14, 2008 12:50 am ET)
                                               

                                             -- neither said what you claimed -- mefirst

                                            Sorry but you're all wet again...but it requires a little work to be right...instead of absorbing pap and then regurgitating it...try this...

                                            The little work is to take the nine toss up states listed by RCP...that should be easy enough for you since they're listed. Then go to the latest polling data for those states and see who is leading...voila...McCain 270 - Obama - 251.

                                            Go to Cook and perform the same operation...McCain 265 - Obama 256. I know it probably seems like magic...if one can't understand a little grade school math.

                                            Now, before class is dismissed, we've circled all the way around to the original premise for citing those electoral college polling numbers. They are not predictors of the outcome...they are indicators of the current trend...which proves that McCain has surged in the polls since naming Gov.Palin as his running mate.

                                            Class will not resume until all attendees produce an elementary school math certificate or at least a working knowledge of same...and a little bit of initiative to study on their own.

                                             

                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2008 10:09 am ET)
                                                 

                                              let's do it this way.  we both know that the electoral college is determinate, but let's go to your statement that mccain is surging because of palin.  he did get a bounce, and that happens after either convention.  but it's been a couple weeks since she was picked and the surge seems to be flat to declining.  if you look at this link for the days 10-12, which are nationwide polls, he has a lead average of only a couple points.   did she give him extra help?  probably, because of all the usual superficial coverage of stuff like the "hockey mom".   but the fact is that they can only rely on the image stuff for so long.  it's already becoming common knowledge that she lied about the bridge to nowhere and about earmarks, she's refusing to answer questions from the press, and as today's new york time article shows, she has a long record of mixing personal and government business.   she appointed high school classmates to head government agencies.

                                              http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by wesley (September 14, 2008 2:49 pm ET)
                                                   

                                                Since you now grasp the concept of current state polling vs. averaging months old polls you should also see that the national polling numbers are of little consequence...from here to election time it's about the electoral votes from each state.

                                                We'll see if the bounce provided by Gov.Palin is sustainable...but the beat goes on for now. The latest poll from Minnesota shows that Obama has lost his sizeable lead and the race has been moved to the toss up category.

                                                Using the most current state polling...McCain 270 - Obama 241.

                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2008 5:07 pm ET)
                                                     

                                                   a lot of the averages are not based on months old data.  i am aware the electoral college determines, i said it, but i posted the national polls to show that whatever "surge" mccain had has flattened, even declined.   that undermines the basis of your statement, that palin has them on an upward path.  the fact is they are desparate to hide her from anything but prepackaged events, nothing from anyone who might ask a real question.  that house of cards could come down real quick. 

                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by wesley (September 14, 2008 5:31 pm ET)
                                                       

                                                     -- whatever "surge" mccain had has flattened, even declined. --

                                                    I thought you were catching on...guess not.

                                                    Maybe in your world Obama losing big leads in Minn/Mich over the last few days means "flattening out"...that's ok with me...in fact I hope Obama's campaign staff thinks just like you...relying on old train schedules before figuring out that the Chief Flyer might have already left the station.

                                                    McCain 270 - Obama 241. Everything you need is at RCP...help yourself...or not.

                                                    Report Abuse
                                        • Author by tippy (September 13, 2008 11:21 pm ET)
                                             
                                          Weasels, guns and religion aside, you should be big enough to admit that you're busted.
                                          Report Abuse
                            • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 1:29 pm ET)
                                 
                              Actually, you're using polling from July and Aug. That's a quaint way of doing things...but I'll stick with the more current data.
                              Report Abuse
                  • Author by tippy (September 12, 2008 12:42 pm ET)
                       
                    A bump, yes, but hardly a surge.  Let's see what happens once she begins doing more interviews. She certainly has energized the GOP base.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by tippy (September 12, 2008 3:15 pm ET)
                       
                    How did you arrive at 270 - 251? 
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 11:27 am ET)
                     

                  Cook Report.

                  They list 8 states as toss ups. When you assign them based on current polling data...Obama 256...McCain 265...in the electoral results.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by neon desert (September 12, 2008 11:39 am ET)
                       
                    Speaking of toss-ups, Sarah Palin finished second in the caber-toss at the '06 Yukon Irish Games in the female 130lb weight class.  Her prize money was donated to the Wasilla City Parks department where it was used to build a Welcome to Wasilla totem along country road 2 at the city limits.
                    Report Abuse
      • Author by worrierking (September 12, 2008 9:05 am ET)
           

        You could be right Wes.

        But I'm sure that when Americans see Gov. Palin and how tough she will be in dealing with terrorists, Russians and Iranians, they might just have second thoughs.

        A little advice to the right.

        Finish the wars you've already started before rattling your saber at countries who are and will defend themselves to the last man, woman and child.

        Don't underestimate the national fervor in Iran and in Russia. They might not like their leaders but they damned sure will defend their country with every last drop of their blood.

        Our own country is more divided than we've been since the Civil War. Much of the division is because of one of the wars we've yet to finish. I can't imagine us pulling together to go to war with another country that did nothing to us.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 11:03 am ET)
           

        Wesley,

        Trends aside, what do you think of Palin?  What do you think of her rhetoric that she shut down the "bridge to nowhere?"  What, in your opinion, is her major policy strength and what do you think is drawing people to her policy-wise?

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        • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 11:13 am ET)
             

          I like what I see..so far.

          It doesn't matter to me...politispeak

          Don't know...to early to tell.

          Nothing policy-wise...it appears that people like and connect with her. She's the reason that McCain's campaign has caught fire and currently leads Obama in electoral college polling.

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          • Author by mefirst (September 12, 2008 11:29 am ET)
               
            it doesn't really matter that she claims to have said "thanks, but no thanks", when what she really said was "i want it, but i don't want my state to pay for it"?
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            • Author by Brabantio (September 12, 2008 11:48 am ET)
                 

              Apparently, Wesley likes:

              Pro-life even in cases of rape and incest

              Denial of human influence on global warming

              Denial of denial of human influence on global warming 

              Attempts at banning books

              Ties to secessionists

              Teaching creationism in public schools

              Assertions of "God's will" for public policy

              Taking per diem money for time spent at home

              Leaving a town of 6,000 people twenty million dollars in debt

              Threatening Russia

              Ignorance of the Bush Doctrine

              Churches that think you can "cure" homosexuality 

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            • Author by Brabantio (September 12, 2008 12:38 pm ET)
                 

              Oh, and making women pay for rape kits to prove they were raped.

              There's just too many to remember all at once.

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              • Author by mefirst (September 12, 2008 1:13 pm ET)
                   
                i was astonished when i read that, that it could be happening anywhere.  those kits can be expensive.  does a woman decide between that month's rent and a rape kit?  it's part of law enforcement, plain and simple.
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                • Author by Brabantio (September 12, 2008 1:48 pm ET)
                     

                  Exactly, the idea that anyone should have to pay for this is absurd.  They might think the rapist should have to pay for it in the end, but he doesn't.  And even then, have the state pay for it and then charge the rapist for the cost.  People can't do that the same way.  Even if I know you're going to pay me back money, I might need that money now.

                  This is something that needs to be highlighted.  How any independent woman could view this favorably is beyond me.

                  While I'm around, let me add "Abstinence-only sex education" and "thinks private entities are funded by taxpayer dollars" to the list.  Obama should put out a series of collector's cards with her negatives.  Collect 'em all!

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          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 11:40 am ET)
               

            Wesley,

            Thank you for your honest answer.  If you had to guess, do you think most Americans think she gave back the money for the bridge when she said "thanks, but no thanks" in her speech?

            I think your answer is right that many people think they "identify" with Palin, but I am not sure they really do beyond the fact that she seems to be "typical."

            Your answer as to no policies, but rather their identification with her, as a reason for her popularity terrifies me.  I hope her policies, along with those of all of the candidates, are brought out.

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            • Author by worrierking (September 12, 2008 11:48 am ET)
                 

              And isn't "typical" just what we need these days?

              Seems like a rerun of voting for the guy you'd most like to have a beer with. 

              I for one want someone intelligent and not as belligerent. We're at the point of voting for all of the assholes we didn't like in high school.

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              • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 12:42 pm ET)
                   

                Well, king...it looks like Obama is your man.

                While neither Obama or McCain will ever be confused with Einstein...Obama certainly appears less belligerant. 

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                • Author by magnolialover (September 12, 2008 2:02 pm ET)
                     
                  Because graduating at the top of your class in law school from Harvard makes one not so smart?
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            • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 11:49 am ET)
                 

              My guess would be that most people think she gave back the bridge money.

              What's wrong with being typical? In today's environment...the low ratings of Pres.Bush and the horrible ratings of both parties in congress...the identification of voters with someone they think is more like themselves may prove more powerful than policy wonking and promising everything to everybody.

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              • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 11:57 am ET)
                   

                Wesley,

                Your first statement is part of the problem with the electorate.  If most Americans believe she gave the money back, they believe a lie.  I would hope the "typical" American wouldn't make a lie one of the cornerstones of a campaign.

                What else is wrong with typical?  I don't want my leaders to be "average, typical" Americans in some realms.  I want smart, educated people in office.  Frankly, I don't see Palin's beliefs as "typical."  I think as a caring and loving mother, she is typical, but when it comes to the decisions and policies she advocates for, she isn't.  I am having a hard time with her popularity because its based on, at least how I see it, as an energetic mother.

                I know some on the right think that Obama's popularity is based on his speech-giving ability, but honestly, I like him for his foreign policy ideas, the types of people he would pick for the Supreme Court, his open-mindedness and thoughtful nature.  I see Palin, who yesterday linked Iraq to 9/11, as someone who will continue to promote bravado and arrogance as a foreign policy rather than measured diplomacy. I see McCain in the same way.

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                • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 12:03 pm ET)
                     

                   -- the problem with the electorate. -- berg

                  The problem is not with the electorate...it's with the lousy candidates...and that includes Obama and McCain. 

                  You like the looks of Obama's positions...fair enough. But if you think he is different and more honest than the other politicians...I fear you may have been duped.

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                  • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 12:07 pm ET)
                       
                    What is your basis for that belief, Wesley?  And what positions does Palin hold that you identify with?
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                    • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 12:26 pm ET)
                         

                      The basis? Surely you jest.

                      Watching the current candidates, their staffs, and their surrogates pandering to the voters...and yes, telling lies...on a daily basis. 

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                      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 12:32 pm ET)
                           
                        Fair enough, and my other question: What policies of Palin's endear herself to you? 
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 12:32 pm ET)
                           
                        Fair enough, and my other question: What policies of Palin's endear herself to you?
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 12:32 pm ET)
                           
                        Fair enough, and my other question: What policies of Palin's endear herself to you?  Do
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 12:33 pm ET)
                           
                        Sorry for the mulitple posts.  What about my other question?
                        Report Abuse
                • Author by neon desert (September 12, 2008 12:13 pm ET)
                     

                  FriedbergBoy sez: "I don't want my leaders to be "average, typical" Americans in some realms.  I want smart, educated people in office." 

                  Elitist.

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                  • Author by friedbergboy1422 (September 12, 2008 12:40 pm ET)
                       
                    Yep.  I want our leaders to be the top of the top in American society.  I want them to be the smartest and most capable people we have to offer.  I don't care if I can't identify with their educational backgrounds.  I want smart, competent people who worked hard in school and in life.
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          • Author by neon desert (September 12, 2008 11:52 am ET)
               

            In response to the question of Palin's claims that she shut down the bridge to nowhere, Wesley sez:

            "It doesn't matter to me...politispeak"

            I can't say that answer surprises me, however I am a bit disappointed.  Because even after 8 years of the executive branch lying, deceiving and misleading the citizens, you reflect the "just tell me what I want to hear" type of voter that will help effectively re-elect Bush to a third term.

            I just have to ask:  What does it take for people like you to begin to demand honesty and accountability in our officials?  A democrat to do it?

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            • Author by wesley (September 12, 2008 12:15 pm ET)
                 

               -- begin to demand honesty and accountability in our officials? -- neon

              What do you suggest...pitchforks in the streets?

              A great line from Lonesome Dove:

              Clara: I've met very few men that were honest...and you aren't one of them.

              Gus: Well...I'm about half-honest.

              Hell, being half-honest is a virtue for most of today's politicians...including McCain and Obama...and that, my firend, I have no control over...except for my one little vote.

              When I find honest politicians...I vote for them. Until then, I'll continue with my constitutional right/obligation to choose from a sorry lot.

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    • Author by right-winger (September 12, 2008 1:26 pm ET)
         

      AFTER SEEING PALIN ON WORLD NEWS LAST NIGHT I SEE WHY FOX, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC AND CBS WERE NOT LOOKING HAPPY TODAY. JOE WAS ATTACKING OBAMA TODAY AND THE ONLY TIME JOE ATTACK IS WHEN HE THANKS OBAMA MIGHT BE HAVING A COME BACK AFTER SEEING HOW BAD PALIN LOOKED LAST NIGHT. AND I LOVE HOW FOX AND JOE ARE ATTACKING GIBSON NOW BUT THEY WERE DEFENDING HIM WHEN PEOPLE WENT AFTER HIM AND BOY GEORGE  IN THAT DEBATE WITH OBAMA. DON'T WORRIE GUYS YOUR BOY AND GIRL ARE STILL GOING TO WIN IN NOV. BECAUSE DEMS, INDEPENDENT AND WOMEN LIKES HER JUST LIKE THEY LIKED BUSH IN 2000. HEY I GUESS THE LIPSTICK ON THE PIG REMARK MUST NOT BE HELPING MCCAIN SO THE RNC, MEDIA AND MCCAIN ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT IT ANYMORE I BET IF IT WAS WORKING THEY WOULD STILL BE TALKING ABOUT IT 24/7. AND ALSO I LOVE HOW NOW THAT OBAMA IF FIGHTING BACK THE MEDIA LOVE TO SAY HOW OBAMA IS ATTACKING MCCAIN BUT WHEN MCCAIN WAS ATTACKING 24/7 THEY WOULD USE ANOTHER WORD BUT NOT THE ATTACK WORD.

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