Savage on Muslim immigrants: 15th-century "throwbacks, some of whom are no doubt terrorists, and some of whom are gonna produce children who will become terrorists"
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SUMMARY: On The Savage Nation, discussing a caller's statement that "Muslim fundamentalists" are "walk[ing] around Northern Virginia as if they own the place," Michael Savage asked, "Why would a nation that is as evolved as America, and as liberal as America is socially, want to bring in throwbacks who are living in the 15th century?" He also asked: "What is the societal benefit of bringing in throwbacks, some of whom are no doubt terrorists, and some of whom are gonna produce children who will become terrorists?"
During the September 16 broadcast of The Savage Nation, host Michael Savage discussed what a caller described as "the garbage that comes in here legally." The caller stated, "[W]e talk about illegal aliens, but we tend to forget the garbage that comes in here legally. Like, I just moved to D.C., and all these Muslim fundamentalists, I mean, they walk around Northern Virginia as if they own the place." Savage responded: "All right, well, they do own the place -- they spit on Americans. They look at you with hatred if you're not wearing 14th- to 15th-century garb." Savage went on to add: "Why would a nation that is as evolved as America, and as liberal as America is socially, want to bring in throwbacks who are living in the 15th century? Now you have to ask yourself, what's the benefit? What is the societal benefit of bringing in throwbacks, some of whom are no doubt terrorists, and some of whom are gonna produce children who will become terrorists?"
As Media Matters for America noted, on the August 4 broadcast of The Savage Nation, while discussing the Italian government's decision to deploy soldiers on city streets to combat violent crime for which, according to The New York Times, "illegal immigrants are broadly blamed," Savage stated: "Things are so bad in Europe that the Italians have put soldiers, military on their streets. Now, you have to understand what it means by things are so bad. The illegal immigrants, mainly Muslims and Africans, are out of control." He then added: "So they've done there what we need to do here. We need to get our troops out of Iraq and put them on the streets of America to protect us from the scourge of illegal immigrants who are running rampant across America, killing our police for sport, raping, murdering like a scythe across America while the liberal psychos are telling us they come here to work."
Talk Radio Network, which syndicates Savage's show, claims that Savage is heard on more than 350 radio stations. The Savage Nation reaches at least 8.25 million listeners each week, according to Talkers Magazine, making it one of the most listened-to talk radio shows in the nation, behind only The Rush Limbaugh Show and The Sean Hannity Show.
From the September 16 broadcast of Talk Radio Network's The Savage Nation:
CALLER: I mean, yeah, we talk about illegal aliens, but we tend to forget the garbage that comes in here legally. Like, I just moved to D.C., and all these Muslim fundamentalists, I mean, they walk around Northern Virginia as if they own the place.
SAVAGE: All right, well, they do own the place -- they spit on Americans. They look at you with hatred if you're not wearing 14th- to 15th-century garb, and they spit on the ground. Now the question is why Bush is bringing in so many of them -- isn't that the question?
CALLER: Absolutely. Absolutely.
SAVAGE: You'll have to ask the genius himself. Why would a nation that is as evolved as America, and as liberal as America is socially, want to bring in throwbacks who are living in the 15th century? Now you have to ask yourself, what's the benefit? What is the societal benefit of bringing in throwbacks, some of whom are no doubt terrorists, and some of whom are gonna produce children who will become terrorists? Why would you want to bring them into the country? Isn't that common sense, a commonsensical question? Well go ask George Bush -- he may have an answer for it.
CALLER: I doubt --
SAVAGE: I don't have an -- don't you understand? I'm gonna give you the shrug now -- the shoulders go up -- I go, uh, what do I know? How do I have an answer for George Bush's genius? I know that many Republicans think he has a plan for everything and in the end he's gonna show the genius that he really is. Thanks. We need more Muslims. I think we should have more throwbacks brought in with burkas and things of that nature who refuse to adapt to America or do as Americans do. We need more of them in every community, as many as we can get, particularly young, disenfranchised males. That's what we -- really, really need right now.
As a matter of fact I do walk the streets of a major city at night and, yes, my city has had troops patrolling the streets due to a catastrophic disaster. However, except under extraordinary emergency circumstances the purpose and mission of the U.S. military is not one of policing American streets, as you and Savage suggest.
However, except under extraordinary emergency circumstances the purpose and mission of the U.S. military is not one of policing American streets, as you and Savage suggest.
And not even then. That is the precise reason for posse comitatus.
Where the hell do you live?
There are more murders happening daily on American streets than happen to American troops yearly in Iraq. - philib
BS. The most recent statistics I could find gave a total of about 52 homicides a day in the US. American soldiers in Iraq have been dying at a rate of more than 750 per year.
Is honesty unnecessary when spitting out a talking point?
In the large majority of homicides the victim and the killer know each other. Troops on the streets would have no effect on those.
Troops on the streets is many steps closer to a police state than most people, even most conservatives, would want to take. You've gone off the deep end there.
Philib wrote:
>>Ok, I was just making a point, didn't think I needed to be exact.
Really? You thought you could use a statistic that was wrong and still make your point? The rest of your argument is silly. Yes, more people die in American streets because there are *300 million* people in America, and something like 1/300th (or less) as many soldiers in Iraq. You need to look at the rate of deaths in relation to the whole population, and when you do, you'll find that the death rate of American soldiers far exceeds that of people back home. (That's not even to mention comparing the number of Iraqi civilians who die in relation to Americans.)
Philib, you're clearly not a bright 5th grader. If you accept the correction you were given: a toll of ~ 50 murders per day in the USA versus 750 deaths per year in Iraq and if you know that there are 7 days in a week, you should have concluded that it would take just over a fortnight for the numbers to be about equal. FYI, a fortnight is equal to two weeks and 14 x 50 = 700. With the exception of February, half a month would have been a better time frame to compare murders in the good old USA to the annual American soldier deaths in Iraq which, according to the latest stat is 4601, or just over 760 per annum. Of course, you didn't bother to take into account the other casualties: the number of soldiers wounded in Iraq is now well in excess of 30,000. Perhaps you need some advanced math course to figure to average that over the almost 6 years that Dubya has been putting our troops in harm's way. (If you can't handle the products and quotients of two and three digit numbers, you must be freaking out over trying to contemplate a nine digit integer which is the daily cost of this war. Sample problem: divide $10,000,000,000--our monthly cost--by ~30 a nice round average month. Don't bother you little head about the repeating decimal.)
Do yourself a favor: go back to elementary school.
"Philib, you're clearly not a bright 5th grader."
Hey, that's good. Did you know everyone can see your nose hairs, since you have your nose stuck so far up in the air? Obviously, you're another liberal. You're all alike.
No, we only look alike because we're all so much brighter then you, you can't see the difference between us.
"we're all so much brighter then you, "
I think that should be "than you". Check with writer (he's a professional). Oh yeah...you're much brighter then me! ;)
Why not put military on the streets?
Well, how about this? Most Americans are pretty much opposed to living in a Soviet-style Police State
Why not put military on the streets?
If you'd prefer living in a police state, Phil, then I suggest you pack your things and move to either Cuba or North Korea.
Well, you have probably screamed about Ted Kennedy for decades. How quickly the dullards forget their old targets.
Kennedy is the only examply you can come up with? Wow! You guys really do live in denial.
Senators Sanders, Feingold, Boxer, Inouye, Brown, Akaka, Menendez, Whitehouse, Kohl, Klobuchar, Tester, Dodd, Durbin, Harkin, Levin, Lautenberg and Murray are all arguably more liberal than senator Obama. Is that good enough for you?
"are all arguably more liberal than senator Obama."
I ask for one senator who IS farther left than O'bama, and all you can do is list some who might be.
I said arguably because some of them are more liberal on some issues and less on others, and which issues are most important depends on ones point of view. Do you know who Feingold and Sanders are? They are both undeniably more liberal. If you want to be difficult instead of being honest and forthright go right ahead, you just make yourself look unreasonable. All of those senators have overall more liberal records than Obama, but you just can't admit you are wrong so you parse and mince, but you never manage to prove anything.
The troop fairy?
No , draft the young college Republicans first. I'm sure there so tired of their mission of taking care of things over here. That's the reason they give for not volunteering for Iraq. Perhaps if they were drafted and actually had to put their arse on the line, things like whether or not Bunny Skylar is going to next weeks brunch will no longer be most important thing to them. It's high time for those who are blessed with so much to start making some damn sacrifices around here. That includes the sanctimonious goons like Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, and Boortz. Can anyone guess how much sacrifice those idiots have made for this nation? War is great as long as some other poor shlub is getting shot at.
I absolutely can't stand those guys and these college republicans with their Ward Cleaver haircuts while they wave the flag as others do the dying. It makes me sick.
I agree Chris.
You've probably seen this video but it shows exactly what you describe about the young Republicans.
Generation Chickenhawk
"As long as we draft the trolls first."
Typical liberal....want somebody else to do the dirty work for you!
Oh! You mean like these guys http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/generation-chickenhawk-t_b_56676.html
Thanks Worrier.
Phil
And you're not serving in Iraq because...?
Explain who's been supporting the war in Iraq and who now suggests we put troops on the streets of our cities.
Let us know how much dirty work you've done yourself Phil.
Where and when did you serve?
"Explain who's been supporting the war in Iraq"
I have.
"and who now suggests we put troops on the streets of our cities."
You are.
So which part are you confused with? That I support our troops or that you want a police state? Well, consider I am a conservative and that means I would support the troops (it's well known liberals do not). You are a liberal which would mean you support a government control in every aspect of life (it's also well known conservatives do not). How simple can it get?
The above quote by you is what started this discussion. I asked you where are we going to get the troops you want to have patrolling our streets.
Please explain where I said I wanted a police state? I responded to your post suggesting we turn America into a police state.
irony: "And Savage wants us to put our troops "on the streets of America"... That goes beyond just a strict immigration policy."
It isn't unexpected that you take a response to another post and twist it into something it isn't...you are the typical liberal. Try reading BEFORE my post. I'm not the one suggesting troops on American streets...Savage is! I didn't start this little mini-topic about something no one is talking about. Perhaps your age and the drug use is clouding your thought patterns. If you're one of the ilk who claim and or fear that McCain is too old to be president because of his age, then I suggest you stop posting as if you have knowledge. You're probably the same age as McCain.
"Where and when did you serve?"
My military record is public knowledge. I have told you several times where/when I served. If your days of druggin while in Nam make your memory short that is not my problem.
That's funny, you get drafted into one war and claim to be a veteran of every one. How many have YOU sat out? Do you even remember the one you were in? It was a long time ago and everyone knows all you Nam vets did was do drugs and kill babies. Well, that's what I hear from all the liberals I know. Are you going to tell us some war stories? Come on, don't be rude and claim experience without sharing.
Your incoherent ramblings are priceless. I made no such claim. You twist your own words and positions and then accuse everyone else of doing it to you.
You become more like Dr. Weiner with each response that you make.
That won't work. Trolls are too lazy to do any work, dirty or otherwise. They certainly don't expend any energy thinking.
Phil
Savage is a hater, remember what he said in 2003 on MSNBC , telling a caller he hopes he dies of AIDS.
1) Intolerance of other religions
2) Against women's equality and rights
3) Intolerant of homosexuals
4) Intolerant of anything they consider "indecent" in books/moves/etc...
5) No protections for the accused, under the rule of law
6) Agenda of putting more religion in the government, and taking away the liberties (and sometime the liberty) of those that don't hold the same opinion. (IOW - forcing their superstitions onto the rest of us.)
All polices of Islamic Goverments, also all policies of the Republican party and American Conservatism in general.
So I ask you again: IF THEY ARE SO BAD, WHY DO YOU WANT US TO BE MORE LIKE THEM?!
You can't take the curse off it just because you change the name. The policies of the Christian Right would make us more like them. No way to debate that. And as for terrorism? They spport the Iraq War don't they? How is that not terrorism? [Iraq] had no weapons, had not violated any UN sanctions, and made no agressive actions. Yet we violated their soverignty and toppled the government, killing 100's of 1000's of civilians in the process. And why? For oil? For a religious crusade? If not, then why? We didn't stand to gain in any other way, and we've embolded Iran, and bogged down our military. Both history and current events are against you, my friend.
well, now the mission is "to start a revolution of democracy doers , taking on the evil doers over there, instead of having to confront evil at the local hockey rink"
I may have slightly misquoted that, but you get the idea. Mainly, my friend, if a tough as nails Republican starts a war it is a galactic battle of good vs. evil, otherwise it is a doomed to fail nation building effort, which the US must never do.
I don't think
That's just about the only completely true statement you've ever posted at MMFA, Phil!!!!
:-)
"What is the societal benefit of bringing in throwbacks...
Is that like wetbacks?
I think you need to try harder. <not sarcasm>
suefeld: "Savage is a hater" she said moments after saying she tries, too. So, obviously, the sarcasm slipped right past both of you.
Phil,
How would you describe Savage's rhetoric?
Savage IS a hater. The man is FULL of hate. You've got to be deaf, stupid or insane not to realize this.
And liberals DO try to make it fair for everyone. How you can say otherwise defies logic. You of the party of the few who wish to dominate the many.
"Savage IS a hater. The man is FULL of hate. You've got to be deaf, stupid or insane not to realize this. And liberals DO try to make it fair for everyone."
Yes, you are correct. Liberals DO try to hate as much as everyone else you claim to be haters. And, you're very good at it. Somewhat better than Savage, only Savage knows what he's talking about. You don't.
Philib wrote:
>>Yes, you are correct. Liberals DO try to hate as much as everyone else you claim to be haters. And, you're very good at it. Somewhat better than Savage, only Savage knows what he's talking about. You don't.
Really? Savage knows what he is talking about? I didn't know that one could just spew racism and still be thought of as someone who knows what he is talking about.
" I didn't know that one could just spew racism and still be thought of as someone who knows what he is talking about."
2 words: Jeremiah Wright
Two more words: Ignorant bigot.
You pick 15 seconds out of 20+ years of sermons, are ignorant of the rest, yet you have the idiotic gall to suggest that Wright "just spews racism?"
When did you first realize you couldn't think logically and decided to attempt to cover it with know-nothing bluster?
Right, the esteemed revverend Wright must have not taken his anti-depressants that morining, and his true colors he briefly showed.
Really, he's a great guy, he just has an ackward tendency to spew (yes i said it) anti-white racist lunacy only SOME of the time. So its really quite okay!!
"why do you think we should treat right wingers with any respect when we get a facefull of disdain every single day?"
Because the so-many of you who claim to be Christian are taught to forgive by Jesus. For those of you who don't follow the teachings of Jesus Christ will not forgive, and I would expect nothing less of you.
I believe in forgiveness but only if someone shows earnest remorse and asks for forgiveness.
But I will show forgiveness:
Philib, I forgive you for all the times you have lied, smeared, and tried to derail a thread.
Go and sin no more, my son.
"I believe in forgiveness but only if someone shows earnest remorse and asks for forgiveness. "
You are being very judgemental of that "someone". At least Jesus doesn't demand 'works' for forgiveness, like you do. I've always been told by liberals that judgeing others is wrong. "Judge not, lest you be judged" they always tell me. How can you demand "earnest remorse" for your forgiveness when Jesus does not demand that? Are you better than God?
Phillib wrote:
>>At least Jesus doesn't demand 'works' for forgiveness, like you do.
And how would you even now what Jesus wanted? The only words we supposedly have from Jesus (the New Testament) was written long after his death, by adherents to a certain sect. Further, the New Testament is really a series of fragments pieced together, and re-written to fit certain ideologies. But maybe you have a special time machine that can go back and actually listen to Jesus?
Beyond that, "earnest remorse" is the least you should expect from someone if you want to extend forgiveness to them.
"The only words we supposedly have from Jesus (the New Testament) was written long after his death, by adherents to a certain sect."
Well, I guess you are not being talked about, then. As I said, for those who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ would forgive. Those (like you) who don't follow His teachings would not forgive and, like I said, I would expect nothing less from you.
"I've always been told by liberals that judgeing (sic) others is wrong. 'judge not, lest you be judged' they always tell me." - Philib
Uh... you do realize that the words that you just quoted are those of Jesus, don't you?
Or is that just your way of acknowledging that Jesus Christ was a liberal?
Get off your high horse Philib. You come here and say all liberals are the same and then tell us we are judgmental. You accuse liberals of being hateful, yet you obviously hate liberals with a passion. Look, there are plenty of liberals who are hypocrites, who are judgmental and who are hateful, I've met quite a few. But don't sit there and act like those behaviors subside solely on the left when conservatives are consistently as bad, and in my opinion, often times worse. The truth is, we are human and we are all flawed. We all can be hypocritical and judgmental. So just quit acting like your s**t don't stink, 'cause I can smell it from here.
"Look, there are plenty of liberals who are hypocrites, who are judgmental and who are hateful, I've met quite a few."
I know there are, and I said so. Why are you mad at me, again? Trust me, I don't hate the liberal, I hate the ideals of liberalism. Which corrupts so much worse than any other system in America.
BTW, I never claimed liberals are the only haters. I point out that while you sit on YOUR high horse and complain about Savage for being hateful you ignore the plank in your own eye.
I'm not mad at you, I just think it rings a little hollow when you behave like a huge hypocrite and then proceed to bash liberals who are nowhere near as bad as you are. I don't really care what you think about liberal ideology. I think it is healthy and good that we don't all think the same. I am willing to have an honest debate about philosophy with conservatives, but most I have met only want to throw out insults and call me a commie or some such thing. You are also like that, and it's sad.
Phil,
I forgive Savage and I pray that his heart empties of the hate he seems to thrive upon, but that still makes his rhetoric over the top, bigoted uncalled for, and downright nasty.
There is a special place in hell for all you pharosies, taking the Lord's name in vain for political and personal game. Jerry Falwell is already these. It will be LOADED with these 'holier-than-thou' republicans who falsely claim to be christians and the 'party of god/jesus.' Using religion to support a greedy, capalist agenda that screws over poor and working peple is blasphemous saclidge. Jesus would more likely thwack these people with his staff to punnish them for their pride then he would be to vote for them. So repent or you will be down there with them!
(And Liberals do not by and large do what they due becuase thet are chritsian. If they are, then they are, but that is incosenquential. Liberals do what they do (and believe as the do) because they are GOOD. And that's not the same thing - just look at the republicans!)
Have you ever heard fundamentalist Christians try to explain away the very hippie-ish Book of Matthew?
It's hilarious.
I agree, Philib. They sure don't make Jews like Jesus anymore...
Do you have eyes? Your nose is still stuck so far up in the air, nobody can tell. Try looking down (at the little people) once in a while. You may see there is more to life than golf and sailing.
Hmm...I believe someone once said "we're going to get those terrorists....now watch this drive." Who was that? Hmmmm....I believe the same person also swore off golf to support the troops, then played golf less than a month later...Man, I can't remember his name....
At least that guy kept his head down during his drive so no one could see his nose hair. Of course, with your head that far down, you can't see the "little people" either, unless you look sideways at the caddie.
For those of you who don't follow the teachings of Jesus Christ will not forgive, and I would expect nothing less of you.
Jesus's Dad also said we shouldn't lie. You not only think that the GOP is above the law, you apparently think they're above the Ten Commandments.
That's where you're wrong, wingnut. I believe in personal accountability. Which would include the GOP and liberals and conservatives and anyone else. When you can find a statement that says I think the GOP is above the law, please provide it. Otherwise, you'll find me pointing out the hypocrisy of the liberal for highlighting conservative failures as if a liberal never does them.
True Sue, you have put up with alot and Survived. You were right on about some on MSNBC this past year, and even survived attacks on here by some of the real hateful posters who accused you of having multiple names.
It is very ironic because one of those people has been outed as being Ellie and other names in the past.
Anyway Phil is completely off his rocker, how can anyone other than a hateful person support and defend Michael Savage? The man is the ultimate slimeball in American radio today. The fact that he has an audience is not only scary but insulting and I have called on in the past a boycott of advertisers. My local station WOR in NY I have written too and I have had my friends do the same, sadly greed over respect.
"sadly greed over respect."
Or, it could be honesty over demonization. Liberals demonize everyone who doesn't fall lock-step into their demand criteria and you call conservatives bad.
Philib wrote:
>>Or, it could be honesty over demonization. Liberals demonize everyone who doesn't fall lock-step into their demand criteria and you call conservatives bad.
Yes, I agree. Conservatives demonize everyone who doesn't fall lock-step into their demand criteria and you call liberals bad. (You see how easy it is to rant?)
philib is the very definition of projection.
True Sue, you have put up with alot and Survived. You were right on about some on MSNBC this past year, and even survived attacks on here by some of the real hateful posters who accused you of having multiple names.
It is very ironic because one of those people has been outed as being Ellie and other names in the past.
Anyway Phil is completely off his rocker, how can anyone other than a hateful person support and defend Michael Savage? The man is the ultimate slimeball in American radio today. The fact that he has an audience is not only scary but insulting and I have called on in the past a boycott of advertisers. My local station WOR in NY I have written too and I have had my friends do the same, sadly greed over respect.
You use the word "liberal" like you were trained by the neocons. "Liberal" is not a some other race, it's a word used to describe one's political or social leanings as it relates to a "center".
Yes, well put. I would add that the so-called Liberals of today are mostly Centrists given how far right (or radical) the Right has moved. And not only are "Liberals " not a foreign race, they are patriotic Americans, not a foreign force who's established a beachhead here, biding their time for a great attack upon America or "Conservatives"; or every day scheming to bring down the country on top of their own heads as well as everyone else's.
Michael Savage, just a real lovely man.
For me to POOP ON!!!!!
SAVAGE: "...a nation that is as evolved as America..."
MMfA: "The Savage Nation reaches at least 8.25 million listeners each week, according to Talkers Magazine, making it one of the most listened-to talk radio shows in the nation, behind only The Rush Limbaugh Show and The Sean Hannity Show."
One of these statements cannot be the truth. it defies Darwin.
The MMfA statement would seem implausible. The fact that it isn't depresses me...
That's 1.75 million per day, multiplied by five days.
Not so big, considering how many stations he's on.
I've heard him inflate this number to 20,000,000, during a soliloquoy on how amazing he is. Michael Weiner is such a f*#king disgusting narcissist, I find it hard to look past any of his delusional ravings to even begin to pick apart the substance of his rants, most of the time.
It's like picking corn out of your own poop, the day after a carne asada, corn-on-the-cob marathon: listening to him makes me feel gross. Yet. I. Can't. Resist. He's like "The Girls Next Door", in this regard, only for mentally retarded bigots who listened to a Dostoyevski novel on tape once.
Michael Savage asked, "Why would a nation that is as evolved as America, and as liberal as America is socially, want to bring in throwbacks who are living in the 15th century?"
And I ask why would a nation that is as evolved as America want to have its airwaves polluted with the lies and hatred spewed by the likes of Michael Weiner? He's a throwback to the Neanderthals.
Sure, you can ask that. But, you still ignore the main question, which concerns bringing in people who believe in honor-killings, hanging homosexuals, stoning adulterers and cutting hands off thieves. WHY haven't you addressed that part of his statement??
Let me guess...because you are afraid to!! Typical liberal
I used to live in a city with a large Muslim population, and I had many friends at work who were Muslim. They were all very sweet people who left their countries to flee the very things you speak of. That's not to say there weren't cultural differences which bred some small amount of conflict, but that isn't uncommon with new immigrants. You act as if every Muslim is a terrorist who wants to institute sharia law, and that is simply not true. Furthermore, I find it interesting that people like you and Savage, who disdain the same things as fundamentalist Muslims, have such a hatred for them. It seems to me as if you would be natural allies.
Savage uses very violent language towards gay people, and I do not doubt that if he had any power other than being a whiny subpar radio host he would use it to subjugate those different from him in similar ways to that of those who impose sharia law.
"You act as if every Muslim is a terrorist who wants to institute sharia law, "
No, I do not. But, I don't live in denial, like you, who thinks there are none.
When did I say there were none? You don't know what I think. I am only going by the impression you give from what you've said, but in order for you to "win" an argument you have to make stuff up.
go to??...please somebody tell me...i need to conform...
I would by no means by this statement think it would change anyone's mind who thinks that Savage is a hater......but......
Savage proclaims to love America...in turn wanting to promote the protection of our borders, our language, and culture. The culture in America is indeed a melting pot of people. But just 50-60years ago this country looked and acting nothing like what we see today. Savage is from that time when America was different.......America has always been accepting of people....people who want to work hard "ask not what my country can do for me, but what can I do for my country'!
But now we see an America given over to compromise....Compromised values being the number one issue why you can now see such vulgarities on tv...you name it it's on prime time.
Some would say..."I want to taste the fruit"....well now you see the results of tasting fruits no one should....so Savage says he's sick of a decaying society.....on this one point he sees how we are allowing people from countries that primarily hate America into our country. Not all those people are bad, but it is foolish to think that ALL those people mean well....just look at the example of the terrorists from 9/11....were they here to promote America and further our culture and ways of life...or destroy it!
Just food for thought that maybe savage, who is brutal and harsh, just might actually LOVE America and want our country to survive.
I'm sure Savage LOVES America. He just happens to be a moron who thinks he knows what's best for the country, and is consistently wrong. He is not inherently evil, just misguided.
...or maybe he really is evil?
Charles-
I also agree that vulgar language on television is the key values issue of our time. You really hit the nail on the head, there.
Savage should vote for John McCain, he'll clean up the airwaves!
He actually endorsed McCain a few months ago with an article praising Bush on his site, entitled “Bush’s Legacy: The Greatest American President?” - so much for that faux Bush-bashing he's been swinging around before Senator Obama became the Democratic nominee. A few excerpts from the article:
"George W. Bush may be remembered as the greatest American president. America was on the verge of boiling over with anger at one liberal decision after another. Bush has many failings, but when it comes to the core issues of our civilization, he does the right thing. [...] You have Obama, a leftist socialist who would give us another gun-grabbing Ginsburg on the court, or McCain, who would appoint a conservative like Bush did."
How I long to hear Mikey's head explode when Obama wins on Election Day.
Yeah, tell that to the hundreds of Americans who were killed by terrorist actions during Clinton's administration. Clinton's peaceful response was to bomb Bosnia for weeks, killing thousands more innocent women, children. Oh yeah, those were such peaceful prosperous times. It always helps when you keep your head in the sand, that way you don't see what is really going on in the world. You ignored the danger of terrorists then, and you deny the danger of terrorists now. All you seem to think about is your own personal comfort. Typical liberal
If the family happens to be named Himler, Göring or Goebbels.
kvnfranks, the only "American" families that talk like that in private are members of the klan or ariyan (sp?) nation. Those are not "most Americans".
I can only see Savage's ears.
My comments are more broad than just cursing on tv or things of that ilk......the society is indeed waaaaaayyyy more progressive than it was back in the 1950's......now not to say that there wasn't any subversive culture back then either...just read "On The Road", one of my favorite books. But the subversive culture was not THE CULTURE in America.
The Culture in America today is the same culture in Sodom & Gomorrah from the Old Testiment.....it is disgusting!
Savage has said time and time again he doesn't care if you are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or whatever...but if you are in America, Love America for what it provides you...opportunity and freedom....what Savage is railing against is those people who come here and stick there nose in the air against America and want America to bend over backwards to cater to them....now not all these types are terrorists...but they sure as heck shouldn't be in a country they themselves hate. Now these haters are extremists...and not the norm. But these people are out there....just look at some of the illegal and legals here in this country from Mexico...they parade in the streets for protest burning American flags and tell everyone to shove it if we don't like it.
Now is that who you guys want in America...such nice and caring people who want nothing but good..right?
My comments are more broad than just cursing on tv or things of that ilk......the society is indeed waaaaaayyyy more regressive than it was back in the 1950's......now not to say that there wasn't any subversive culture back then either...just read "Grapes of Wrath", one of my favorite books. But the subversive culture was not THE CULTURE in America.
The Culture in America today is the same culture in that compares America to Sodom & Gomorrah from the Old Testiment.....it is disgusting!
Savage has said time and time again he doesn't care if you are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or whatever...but if you are in America, Love America for what it provides you...opportunity and freedom....what Savage should be railing against is those people who are already here and stick there nose in the air against America and want America to bend over backwards to cater to them....now not all these types are bigots...but they sure as heck shouldn't be in a country they themselves hate. Now these haters are extremists...and not the norm. But these people are out there....just look at some of the neonazis and skinheads here in this country from Alabama...they parade in the streets for protest burning American flags and tell everyone to shove it if we don't like it.
Now is that who you guys want in America...such nice and caring people who want nothing but good..right?
"....just look at some of the neonazis and skinheads here in this country from Alabama..."
I don't think you achieved what you wanted to. All you did was to reinforce what CPA was saying. He clearly said that Savage does not like those who get here then complain because we don't conform to their own standards. And, yes, CPA included the skinheads and nazi's in his statement. And your bigoted rant against Alabama should include every state in America, because if you know anything about those groups, they live everywhere.
"then he gulls you into still voting for the same people when the elections roll around."
Look at it from our point of view. I'm a conservative (very conservative), I will vote for someone who stands for my main concerns. I see 2 choices; O'bama and McCain. Will O'bama give me fair judges who won't create law instead of judging law? Will O'bama promise to make abortion (as a form of birth control) harder to get? Will O'bama try to win the war on terrorism? Now, I ask the same questions of McCain and I get 3 different answers. Which would you vote for?
So, it's not like we have much choice. He doesn't "gull" anyone when you only have the choice between a socialist and a conservative. When there are 2 or 3 middle of the road candidates also in the mix then your statement could be true. Not when there are no choices but the 2 extremes.
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I don’t get the concern over abortion. It’s such a DISASTER to bring a life into this cold cruel world that’s either unwanted or can’t be cared for. If we had a non-atomized, ethnically/religiously/culturally homogenous village-like society it would be different as there’d be more natural concern for one another.
As to the “war on terrorism”, you gotta use cops, not soldiers. But even if real wars worked on it, it’s just too expensive for this country to use its military. It used to be in past centuries that you could just go in and break everything and kill or enslave everyone and steal all their stuff and the war might even pay for itself. But now we gotta fix what we break and pay for extraordinarily expensive weapon systems to minimize casualties, not to mention the graft and the for-profit support services and the mercenaries. It would far better to just take the attitude “Oh well, we’ll just have to accept the occasional hit and keep a stiff upper lip rather than let them bankrupt us.”
"It’s such a DISASTER to bring a life into this cold cruel world that’s either unwanted or can’t be cared for."
Then why are you making them? What purpose does it serve to teach children how to have sex then complain when they make a baby? If you're going to force public schools into teaching children how to have sex, then you should be prepared to accept responsibility for the seeds you want planted. Instead, you expect to teach children to have sex then kill the human lives they created while doing what YOU wanted them to learn how to do. What kind of idiot would want to teach children how to have sex then tell them to kill their baby before it's born? Some would prefer to teach children how to love life and respect others...maybe even wait until marraige before having kids, but I know that sounds kind of old fashioned.
You know, it's easy to not make a baby. All you have to do is not have sex. I know that sounds simple and kind of extreme for the liberal lifestyle. But the best ideas usually are pretty simple.
" It would far better to just take the attitude...blah..blah..blah"
No, it would not. I don't want to think that at any given moment the bus I ride will explode or the bridge I drive on will explode or the building I work in will explode....because I should "accept the occasional hit" is the defense strategy of someone in control. If that is O'bama's defense strategy on terrorism then that is definately a reason why I would not vote for him.
Read up on.
IRA
Ulster Defence Association
Baader-Meinhof gang
Red Brigade
FARC
Shinning Path
And don't forget Isreal was established with the help of terrorists - Irgun
Before the establishment of the state, he was the leader of the Irgun, playing a central role in Jewish resistance to the British Mandate of Palestine. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Begin
And how could someone claim there are no christian terrorists and manage to forget the KKK?
Neither did Charles Bundy. Are we classifying each crazed lunatic as a terrorist, now?
Sorry, TED Bundy. I was thinking of Manson at the same time, but he did use a terrorist cell, so I didn't want to use him as the example.
IRA --- You better do your own reading up on history, on this one before you call it a Christian terrorist cell
Ulster Defence Association --- What religious demands did they make that would qualify them as a Christian terrorist cell as opposed to a generic terrorist cell? Or, are you saying that since they killed hundreds, maybe thousands of Catholics that makes them a Christian terrorist cell?
Baader-Meinhof gang --- Don't they describe themselves as communist? Would that qualify as Christian?
Red Brigade --- Another communist group. Same question as above.
FARC --- The military wing of the Columbian communist party.
Shinning Path --- Commonly known as; the communist party of Peru.
Now, I realize you claim to have some knowledge, so if you'll reach way back and find some, please offer some more Christian terrorist groups we can check out... ones that aren't communist. The last I looked, communist China isn't referred to as Christian China.
One thing I noticed on all of those groups is that they are ALL described as 'left wing'. What does that tell you about liberal idealogy? It tells me that the liberal idealogy is based on violence and terror. Very Christian like.
YO! Worrier, why you postin such trash? Maybe communist groups are considered Christian to your liberal pals, but people who think for themselves know the difference. Give us another list. This time use bonified Christian terrorist groups.
And don't forget Isreal was established with the help of terrorists - Irgun
Or Israel if you prefer.
Thorn, if you're on the level and not just shilling for the GOP or a foreign government or some other special interest group like the very wealthy, you really need to calm down and sober up for your own good. I don’t remember your history here so I’m only going by your comments on this thread.
You are being made a fool of. You're like a drunk. You're thinking is all cross wired. Have you ever seen someone literally drunk who was acting in such a way that unrestrained he’d have done great damage to himself? You may very well be a smart person but I think you've likely been brainwashed by people who only have their own interests at heart and not yours’. At least consider the possibility if you can still mange that. Is it at least possible? I'll cop to having some brainwashing in me to from the Left, but like with drinking it's a matter of degree. You are stoned off your butt while I am still self-possessed. I say all this because I honestly feel bad for you as a fellow American.
Why did I say “..for your own good” earlier? Because if I’m right about this, you are the type of person who can be taken advantage of by others on a personal level, swindled for example by a conman who takes your money or talked into buying something you don‘t need, etc. The thing of it is though, if you are self aware enough to know about this weakness you can avoid situations that require the appropriate level of discernment I am suggesting you may lack. Like a person who knows he’s no good with heights avoids projects involving ladders for instance.
But as to the substance of your post:
The difference is that these people were revolutionaries who fought for freedom while Islamic terrorists kill in the people who don't have the same beliefs. Liberals aren't much different. They are filled with hate for people with different beliefs. Just like Bill Ayers.
>>>>>You’re making a false comparison. Liberals (non-conservatives) are Americans. We do not consider killing those Americans who disagree with us! We are on the same boat you “conservatives” are on. We sink or float together. Don’t listen to hate radio guys and the rest who want you to focus on us as though we are an outside force trying to hurt you. We want what’s good for America because we care about America. We see you as hurting America and we want you to stop. Picture a family arguing---isn’t that easy? Why so? Because they care about each other and won’t just walk away as they would from a stranger. Each wants the other to act or think differently not just for him or herself but for the good of the family as a whole.
The danger for you Thorn also is that you “conservatives” are so consumed with the notion of us non-“conservatives” (‘liberals’ to you) as ‘the other’ that you-all may, under economic stress perhaps, look to hurt us someday, in which case you may make your fears of us hurting you in some way, fashion, or form into a self fulfilling prophesy.
Why do you think the GOP wants this friction between us? It takes the heat off of the people who deserve it! And while we’re occupied with each other, the profiteers in government and big business make off with country’s treasure, leaving an empty shell behind. Our foreign policy and economy stays empire-based with the attendant fortunes wasted and special friends protected ---all on the backs of the people who stand to gain nothing and lose everything.
I’ve heard Savage. Notice that when it comes time for him to endorse one of the two major parties or say he wants neither or a third party, he always sides with the GOP when elections roll around. He throws a mean hip fake in between, but like a good precinct captain he gets out the vote. He has a different style but the same effect as Limbaugh in the end.
Just like Timothy McVey?
Check with The Southern Poverty Law Center to keep up to date on violent conservatives. Todd Bently and Joel's Army are just the most recent to emerge as ones looking for a violent fight with the culture that produced and nurtured them.
Try again - they used terror for their own political ends. They are terrorists. I love how the cons differentiate between "freedom fighters" and "terrorists". Jihadists will tell you they are fighting for freedom from a morally bankrupt culture.
And nice side step on the whole KKK thing.
Most of the con "freedom fighters" are doing precisely that: fighting freedom. One can only hope that Freedom wins.
The italians are really taking a hard line against muslim immigrants, illegal immigrants, and immigration in general.
We should uphold them as a model of good conduct.
Typical bash...how thoughtful. Can't a guy commend a country who is actually enforcing their own laws? or is that too conservative?
I wish the US would actually enforce our laws in regards to illegal immigration. Oh I must be a hater of all life!
Oh come on, enforcing laws is so passé.
That is a stupid argument.
Do I tell you to move to britain or sweden every time you gush over their soft-socialist system?
As i noted in my post, we shoud uphold them as a model. Meaning i would prefer to change this country rather than leave it.
Also, changing countries of residence is a trying and expensive thing.
Holy Hell, Bernie Sanders IS a socialist.
...kind of the judges back in Germany who Hitler appointed for the purpose of Passing his laws...the people of Germany never voted for that it was done by the Judges who established the laws that gave Hitler the ability to carry out such attrocities. CPA5
Wow - a nazi comparison. Nice. And It's been a long time since I've seen someone try to argue that the German population were simply dupes. Care to follow that up with a "Hitler wasn't so bad at the begining" argument?
I don't believe that the german population were ignorant....but Hitler was a tyrant and it wasn't a democracy for and by the people. He appointed judges to make and say what the law was...which happened to be how he wanted it.
All i'm saying is that what the judges did in california is very very similar....they decided what the law was going to be...overriding the will of the people who voted "no" 8 years ago.....now at least in our country we get to have that on the ballot again to be "VOTED" on by the people. Judges are supposed to uphold the law not override a vote and do whatever they want.
That's all...a simple argument.
So just because the majority votes for something it automatically becomes law? I thought Cali residents voted in favour of medical marijuana yet the feds are still busting sick people for possesion.
The Germany comparison is not even in the same ball park What happened in Cali was an effort to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. How you can equate equal rights for a minority (allowing gays to marry) to what heppend in Germany in the 30s is just beyond the pale.
Simple argument indeed.
Law makers put up bills that in states get voted on to determine what the people want.
I don't know enough about the medical mary jane issue to comment.
You state that the minority (in this case the gay & lesbian groups who equal marriage rights) was protected from the "Tyranny" of the majority. So by your statement and reason the Judges "protected" the minority by overriding a vote of the people. In essence it is up to judges to dictate to us how things will be. Not the will of the people (yes a majority). So in that case these "judges" become the end all be all....the people have no say......
What happened in Germany is just that. The judges dictated "the what, the how, the who, " etc. ...not the people's vote but Judges. That is dictatorship...that is Tyranny....that is just what the Judges in Cali. did.
Pretty soon they will come to your house and tell you that your extra bedroom in your house must be occupied by illegal aliens...why? Because "they" Say So. Your freedoms down the drain. Now that is an extreme stretch...but by your logic and opinion who's to say it won't happen:)
I work in Northern Virginia, and I don't think I've ever seen a "Muslim fundamentalist," walking around as if they own the place or just walking around anywhere.
he should be fired. People shouldn't be allowed on the radio who say things we don't agree with.
I TOTALLY AGREE, COMRADE!!!!
I wonder whatever happened to "I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Most of the passionate argument here has been futile (derailed by Philib). We who post here do so b/c we want to counter the dangers of hate radio b/c we see where it is taking our culture - toward breakdowns similarly experienced by Germany, Rawanda, Yugoslavia, etc. Ethnic and religious slaughter. It's a repeating theme in history and America is not immune for experiencing the same fate. We should stay focused on tangible, effective responses to hate speech - as we did when Savage attacked autistic children.
Savage is getting ready to retire. His health is deteriorating rapidly. He has publically blamed his ill health on the "attacks" he has experienced in the past year from MMFA and CAIR. He takes a lot of time off from his radio show lately. He has written an autobiography, no doubt b/c he will soon be off the air - a written legacy I guess. In other words, he is upping the ante, trying to go out with a bang rather than a wimper.
This particular attack was aimed at an ethnic-religous group and perhaps it would best to join forces with a groups such as the Southern Poverty Law Center (mentioned in a previous post) or CAIR, who have a national audience and who are already well versed in responding the psychology of hate and are well able to articulate the logical outcome of hate movements (violence).
I agree with a comment made earlier - if you can't substitute the word "Jew" everyplace Savage says "throwback" or "Muslim" or "Arab" then the speech should be considered promotion of hate and violence. There has got to be a way to hold him legally responsible for any violence/loss experienced by the targets of his rants. He has freedom of speech, but not to incite violence.
Savage is getting ready to retire. His health is deteriorating rapidly.
I've only been hearing hearing bit's and pieces lately, so I could have missed something but a few days back he said his goal now was to outlive all the other right wing radio pundits--to be on the job another twenty years.
That's true, he did say that -after his colonoscopy indicated his a**hole didn't have cancer. But he contradicts himself so much and so much of what he says is shock radio that I look to his actions for what he plans to do. He also said he was going to take his lawsuit against CAIR to the Supreme Court, and now he conveniently doesn't even mention the suit - and the fact that he took tens of thousands of dollars from listeners for the purpose.
So he is publishing an autobiography - the best of Savage type book. He has said he is in negotiations to do a film - about himself of course. He regularly says he "can't take it anymore." (Dealing with the backlash generated by his own hate speech is a big job.) So I think his actions indicate he is a man who is winding down, tired, stressed. He is thinking about how he wants to be remembered, rather than what he still wants to do.
I still say there is plenty of fodder for legal action against Savage - you can't preach hatred as intensely as he does and not have it bear evil fruit. We just need the lawyer who is willing to put in the work to dig into how he used his "free speech fund" or to connect the dots between him and loonies like the guy who shot up a bunch of church goers because they were "liberal."
I'm not an attorney Matrix, but I'm surprised prominent Dems slandered by all these right wing radio propagandists don't sue for defamation of character on a regular basis. The problem with that is supposed to be that there's a very high burden of proof on the plaintiff, but I think these guys do intend malice when they make provably false and defamatory statements about prominent Democrats. And I believe juries would find them guilty---these right wing radio guys' reputations are horrible, even among many Republicans.
As to the hate crime angle, I would think a wrongful death suit could be brought by the estates of the deceased naming the GOP pundits as defendants. Like I said I'm not a lawyer, but at the very least it would be bad publicity for them.
I think these are great ideas, and I too wonder why someone hasn't hauled Rush, Laura Ingram, or Hannity into court for slander and defamation. Or even Rupert Murdock -as someone who is bankrolling this garbage.
Vincent Bugliosi has made the case holding Bush responsible for the deaths of US soldiers, so it is not out of the question.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vincent-bugliosi/the-prosecution-of-george_b_102427.html
Unfortunately, I think it is going to take a more direct link between the murder and the talk show host to get this type of action rolling. Though to my eyes, the link is clear.
What's the old saying about the goose and the gander? If you allow suits against conservative talk radio hosts (like those you mention) then suits must be allowed against liberal radio hosts, like Randy Rodes, Rachel Madow, Al Colmes and Stephani Miller (just to name a few) for similar defamation and slander. Or even George Soros-as someone who is bankrolling that garbage.
If you really cared about halting hate, you would be working against CAIR, a terrorist supporting, hate-mongering group that wants to put sharia law in place which would destroy women's rights.
I do care about hating. If what you say about CAIR is true, then why hasn't Homeland Security shut them down? I don't hear CAIR representatives calling people derogotory names, and saying that certain people should suffer injustices because of their identity - as Savage and other hate radio jocks do. If CAIR has committed crimes, or engaged in inflammatory rhetoric, where is the documentation?
And this nonsense about putting sharia law into place - just how is a group , any group, going to change the legal system in America, let alone make it sharia law? Tell me the mechanics of how that might take place. Jerry Fawell said it took his entire career to get one conservative supreme court justice appointed - so how will the United States of America come to be dominated by a completely foreign legal system? What paranoid nonsense.
Hey Matrix, despite LH's soft cranial outerwear he may yet have someworking brain cells:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09182008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/sharia_uk_129620.htm
testing link
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09182008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/sharia_uk_129620.htm
It's an interesting article, Eddy, but the main point at the end of the article is that it is an "arbitration tribunal" which HAS to act within British law. I don't see that as any different than two people in the US who reach an agreement without a trial. Or those who go on shows like Judge Judy and the like and agree to have their disagreement settled on TV. As the article states, two parties can't agree to what is illegal, such as slavery or prostitution. An interesting point that the article did not address is whether the majority of those using the tribunal are immigrants. Are the children of the immigrants using the tribunal as well? Having said that, I would not seek out this type of arbitration b/c it does seem to be catering to an ethnic bias. But I wonder if some sort of neutral arbitration process might not be usefull to clear our clogged court system.
I still think the immediate threat to the US is right-wing extremism, both the religious and non-religious varieties.
You're kidding, right? Are you saying that there aren't Muslims who are trying to change this country into one similar to the middle eastern versions of Islamic control? Are you so dense that you don't see what is happening in the world today? No wonder people don't trust liberals.