Toobin on Borger's claim that "the bar is ... on the floor" for Palin in VP debate: "[W]ho are we to say where the bar is?"
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SUMMARY: On CNN's Late Edition, Gloria Borger claimed that "the bar is ... on the floor for Sarah Palin" in her upcoming debate with Sen. Joe Biden. Jeffrey Toobin replied, in part: "[W]ho are we to say where the bar is?" He later said that "we sort of create these expectations" that "it's not our job to do."
On the September 28 edition of CNN's Late Edition, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin responded to senior political analyst Gloria Borger's assertion that "the bar is, first of all, on the floor for [Gov.] Sarah Palin" in the upcoming vice presidential debate by saying that "it's not our job" to "sort of create these expectations."
Borger claimed, "Well, the bar is, first of all, on the floor for Sarah Palin. She -- you know, so I'm looking to see how she goes toe to toe with [Sen.] Joe Biden, who's very experienced in foreign policy, and how he handles her." Toobin replied: "But I don't think the bar is on the floor. I think the bar is the same place it is for Biden. I mean, who are we to say where the bar is? I think this is their job to say whether she's capable of being vice president and president of the United States." Borger countered: "But people don't expect a lot. You know, look, if she performs fine, it will be better than fine for her. Do you know what I'm saying? That's what I see." Toobin said: "They should expect a lot. I understand your point, but I just think we sort of create these expectations that are just not our job -- it's not our job to do."
From the September 28 edition of CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer:
BLITZER: Gloria, what are you going to be looking for Thursday night?
BORGER: Well, the bar is, first of all, on the floor for Sarah Palin. She -- you know, so I'm looking to see how she goes toe to toe with Joe Biden, who's very experienced in foreign policy, and how he handles her.
BLITZER: But he's pretty capable of having a gaffe himself.
BORGER: Right, he is, and that's why this debate is going to be so interesting because these people are going to look at each other this time. And --
TOOBIN: But I don't think the bar is on the floor. I think the bar is the same place it is for Biden. I mean, who are we to say where the bar is? I think this is their job to say whether she's capable of being vice president --
BORGER: But people don't expect --
TOOBIN: -- and president of the United States.
BORGER: -- a lot. You know, look, if she performs --
TOOBIN: Well, they should.
BORGER: -- fine --
TOOBIN: They should expect a lot.
BORGER: -- it will be better than fine for her. Do you know what I'm saying? That's what I see.
TOOBIN: I understand your point, but I just think we sort of create these expectations that are just not our job -- it's not our job to do.
This just in:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/mccain-replaces-palin-wit_b_130111.html
Whatever. Most of the dialogue from the SNL skits were Palin's own words. Palin, literally is a joke.
However, my expectations for her are very high, as it should be. She's running for VP and she can deliver good speech, so I expect her to be very sharp. Most importantly, the Biden camp is expecting a good debate and preparing wisely.
Roundhouse she is a joke and it is a disgrace that she on this ticket and McCain has put our nation at risk with this VP pick.
"But people don't expect a lot. You know, look, if she performs fine, it will be better than fine for her. Do you know what I'm saying? That's what I see."
that's the problem, POV. just because sarah palin has shown herself to be out of her depth does not mean that if she is anything more than unintelligible on thursday that she has "won". the "bar" is low for her because she is a bad candidate. she will need to be as in command of the issues as biden is to "draw" the debate, and more so to "win".
"just because sarah palin has shown herself to be out of her depth does not mean that if she is anything more than unintelligible on thursday that she has "won"
Exactly.......
Ed Schultz reported yesterday that the McCain people ran a mock debate with Sarah Palin and appearantly they were collectively putting their heads in their cupped hands groaning....... If this debate occurs.... it will put the final nail in the coffin of Sarah Palins attempt at a job she had no right to try and get in the first place!
POV,
Under NO circumstance should Americans expect an individual who is potentially one heartbeat away from leading our country to do poorly when it comes to a debate testing her on the basic knowledge that she needs to run our country. Under no circumstance should any of the four not be equipped to give reasonable, thoughtful and thorough answers to what probably will be basic policy questions.
SNL parodies are no reflection of what the electorate should expect. In John McCain's view, she is the second-best person to lead this country in a dark time of need. I expect her to show me why he has so much confidence in her. Expectations, because of her two network interviews, be danged. My expectations of Palin are sky-high because of the responsibility McCain has bestowed upon her. and so should anyone who is even CONSIDERING voting for McCain in November (I am not one of those people at this point). I don't want to hear about low expectations. A vote for McCain is saying that Palin is ready. She has to show it on Thursday. Period.
If you bothered to read the news you'd find that the Obama camp says she's a sharp debater. The only reason McCain keeps her under wraps is because he's a closet sexist. He can't stand sharing the limelight with someone who is so highly qualified, someone who singlehandedly electrified the republican base...
I'll be impressed if most of what she says actually sounds like english.
POV, I suspect that Borger is right, at least that a significant group of Americans may expect Palin to do poorly. But I don't know that, because Borger cited no sources. Which leads to your conclusion that she was stating an opinion. I think part of Toobin's point was that she described her opinion as though it were a fact. I think this happens too frequently with pundits; they state what they think as though the majority of Americans thought the same thought, rather than actually finding out what Americans think. Freaking fascists.
Word games - sometimes they're just irresistible. Take your typo: "miss info" instead of "mis-info". Perhaps Gloria can only spread "miss" information. (Of course it should be "Ms." info, but that kind of misses the point!)
One: Sarah Palin has zero ability to come off strong in a debate!
Two: Sarah Palin is a slap across the face to women everywhere by the pasty old white guys, in that she is not worthy of the job.
Three: Believe if you want that she will do anything short of bad in her debate with Biden
Four: "[W]ho are we to say where the bar is?" He later said that "we sort of create these expectations" that "it's not our job to do."
Really dumbass....er Mr Toobin..... if it is not the job of the media..... then who's is it? The candidates parents? Their 2nd grade teachers? The manager of the local Burger King?
You are supposed to be the 4th estate...... either start acting like it.... or get the hell out of the way!
The problem with Borger's comments is that she claims the bar is that low for Palin, and that not only is this OK, but that it is perfectly accpetable for the news media to tell us how, when, and why Palin will succeed in her tasks.
Get the point? Toobin is saying that it's not the job of news pundits to tell the country when Palin has met expectations-- especially when they've set the bar so low for her to succeed, compared to her opponent.
Toobin's a lawyer, apparently he passed the bar and remembers where it is...
We should be looking for a mysterious bulge in her outfit.
She already had her baby.
Palin is receiving major training right now. She is nowhere near ready to take over. I would like clarity on what lawmakers, lobbyist she is surrounding herself with. And that includes her law dodging husband.
Watch her hairdo. Can you say ... earpiece ?
Yes, you bet. It is a lot easier to hide a microchip and a speaker with a two way radio device.
Maybe Biden can hide a radio jammer ? We come a long ways since the Lincoln-Douglas debates.
I wonder if the media would make anything of it if she appeared to be wearing an earpiece? When Bush had that lump under his jacket in 2004 there was a little speculation in the MSM but as soon as the White House said it wasn't a wire they dropped it.
Of course, though, the ear piece would only be for a listening device situated in the Bering Straight...you know, listening for Vladimir Putin rearing his ugly head and invading Alaska. ;>)
This is interesting...apparently the McCain campaign wants Sarah Palin "to go on the offensive as a combative conservative".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/free-palin-mccain-camp-re_n_130146.html
If it's true this is the best news I've heard. Of course, expectations for Palin are low and Biden has to be careful not to sound as though he's either patronizing her or bullying her. However, if Palin comes out swinging then the gloves are off...Biden will have every legitimate reason to respond forcefully, and with the breadth of his knowledge and experience which is far superior to that of Sarah Palin. And, even if Sarah Palin is well rehearsed you know that she cannot escape at least one or two cringe moments. It should be both interesting and entertaining...
I'm guessing that "coming out swinging" for Palin is going to be made up of a few different moves
-- first, follow Grampy's lead, piling up enough lame talking points and lies that Biden will have to spend a good part of his time debunking these. Why not,? it's not like the commentators are going to bust her for it.
-- Snarky comments, directed at the hardcore base. "Community Organizer" was the last time she got a real enthusiastic response.
-- Third, and I hope I'm right on this one, just for the entertainment value; staggering off into beauty pageant ramblings about Putin and airspace until everybody's forgotten what the question was.
Of course, expectations for Palin are low and Biden has to be careful not to sound as though he's either patronizing her or bullying her.
I don't think this is as dangerous as the conventional wisdom suggests. When Lazio "bullied" Clinon, Hillary was seen by many as being almost TOO tough. She NEEDED to show some vulnerbility, if only to play in to the average man's stereotypical expectations of a female candidate.
But it's the opposite for Palin. She's been sold as TOUGH, and a MAVERICK, and a MOOSE-HUNTER. (wtf?) So SHE can't afford to look weak. She can't play the same card there. It's like the theme to Jackass says: If you're gonna be dumb, you've gotta be tough!
SO GO GET HER, JOE!!!
Don't worry. Lowering expectation for Biden can only help us.
The funny thing is with Biden, and McCain and even W. and Dan Quayle... When they GAFFED, you generally knew what they were trying to say, you just laughed at how BADLY they said it. (Call it being unintentionally hilarious.)
But with PALIN... when she gets off her talking points, even a little, she just spouts gibberish. If she's says more than two sentences on any topic, it doesn't even sound like she's actually speaking english anymore. Half the time (more, maybe!) I don't know wtf she's trying to say!
Of course all she has to do is look at the audience once in a while to do better that McCain did on Friday.
I don't know... McCain was at least mostly COHERENT. She'll need that too. (And she don't got it!)
I only watched the first half of the debate but during that time McCain didn't seem to really say anything about what he'd do as Prez. Mostly just standard campaign talking points and attempts to slam Obama about the surge. The only thing I actually remember him saying he'd do was when Lerher tried to prod them both to answer his idiotic question about what specific things they would do or things they would drop from their campaign platform due to the current financial crisis and assumed $700 bil bailout. McCain looked like some kid put on the spot in high school Algebra before he said "How about a spending freeze?"
True, but like you said - it was an idiotic question. "Ok, let's say, hypptyhetically, that you just gave away $700,000,000,000. What would you do next?" The both tried to "not answer sucha ridiculous hypothetical" but Obama gave a better non-answer than McCain. (Who should have known better!) I agree that there were definitely better ways of getting the candidates to prioritize thier respective domestic agendas. (Which was unecessary anyway, since this was supposed to be a debate about foreign policy!)
BTW, would everyone be holding their collective breath over the expectations for Sarah Palin's debate performance if she had not alreadsy demonstrated that she is a dimwit?
Palin may be dilligently rehearsing the lines she's being fed...but she can't fake it for the entire debate. There WILL be cringe moments...
I recommend consuming a good bottle of wine. It should be a great show!
toobin is right. the media will fall all over themselves saying she didn't make an absolute fool of herself, thus proving the criticism of her was overdone. but she couldn't even get thru the couric interview without notes.
Here's MY prediction. Palin's handlers will arm her with all the weapons she has already qualified with. Sarcasm, smirks, little "gee-whiz" head shakes, inane and off topic non-statements, a few references to Biden's past gaffes (we ALL make them), and several other tricks we haven't even seen yet. It will not be a "debate" at all. Biden will be careful not to make the poor thing uncomfortable, so as not to look "sexist". She has shown herself to be a terrifying presence and a formidable sound bite expert. Her success at getting so many adoring followers to defend her is proof of her imaging talents. And that, my friends, (sorry Sen. McCain) is the key to political victory. To millions of zombies across this land, Sarah Palin is "ready".
Even Barbie's parents (who seem like very nice people) say she's qualified. They are the ONLY ones who are allowed to have blinders on for this disaster-in-waiting.
I agree. Palin will have all the relevant talking points nailed down. She won't answer a single question directly talking endlessly around something to the point that you won't even remember what the question was to begin with. She's a practiced journalist, so she'll be used to this format. She'll speak well and coherently. Biden is the one that will have to be careful. Although, I don't know of any Presidential election won/lost based upon a VP debate. Biden just needs to be aggressive with his answers, but not attack Palin too harshly.
Palin's problem is that she is listening to too many so-called campaign experts.
She should forget the nonsense and not try to hide hide what she doesn't know. Just come out and say she is no foriegn policy expert but can learn fast. We all know she's no forigen policy expert, so to try to pretend is only making her look silly.
Foriegn Policy is Palin's weakest point and Biden's strongest. She should just concede that point and go on the attack as being a reformer. I could care less if she knew what Bush Doctrine entailed. I could care less if she knows the name of the President of Kazhikistan.
Biden has been in the Senate for a gazillion years. His record is up for review and so are his crazy statements. If Palin concentrates on all Biden's flipflops, misstatements and positions, she can effectively neutralize his so-called strong point and then attack him as part of the good-ol-boy network like the one she beat in Alaska.
I'm surprised she hasn't hired you on, Barney. ;0)
Except that Sarah Palin is insufficiently knowledgable in the subject matter, as she might have been in her Alaska gubernatorial campaign, to pull it off. She can try to be natural, but at the same time she has to try to act natural as she spouts memorized talking points. She may handle herself okay for a while, but over the course of the debate she will at some point embarrass herself.
It'll be interesting to watch that is for sure.
AA wrote:
>>She should just concede that point and go on the attack as being a reformer.
If by reformer you mean chronic liar, yes. She claimed she stood up to congress and said no the brdige to nowhere. The press caught her lying, and she continued to repeat this line. Look at factcheck.org.
Please, everyone, stop using that expression, "heartbeat away from the Presidency". If I see it or hear it one more time I am going to throw up. Especially in reference to Palin.
Bobby wrote:
>>Whether Obama is black, white, yellow, blue or green he is a socialist. Lady Sarah is going to S-M-O-K-E Biden in the debate.
You wrote two senteces and both of them are abusrd. Good job. Did you even see the interview Palin had with Couric? Palin clearly can't answer questions about policy.
Sorry if some of you might think this is off topic...but it AIN'T. Watch for this movie! The title is "She Gets What She Wants" OR, an alternate title, "Slap Her, She's French". Shown on Cinemax (I think). It is a 2002 fluff movie about a high school rivalry between two very nasty and ambitious girls who will do anything to get ahead. It is a PERFECT portrait of 'you know who". Stars Piper Perado as a faux-French exchange student and Jane McGregor as her unwitting sponsor. You will thank me later.
I'll look for that one, Maddog.And since that is on topic, now movies are , indirectly, on-topic, so I can ask;
Has anybody been seeing the trailers for that American Carol movie? It looks like another sad right wing attempt at comedy. I now understand why Sarah Palin watches comedy shows with the sound off, as obviously slapstick and violence don't require a lot of dialogue. The entire preview seems to be various people punching the Michael Moore character. Witty!
I started Googling around , looking for info on the movie, and it's interesting how many of them refer to the Moore doppelganger as an "Anti-American filmmaker".
I've read some things about the movie. It stars two of my favorite scumbags. Kelsey Grammer and Dennis Hopper. And Joe Buck's in it too.
Two drug addled stars who're now bedwetter filmdom's top stars. It also stars Joe Buck. The base that these LA goons are performing for would be the first one's to outlaw thing's like "Easy Rider", 'Midnight Cowboy" and "Apocalypse Now".
Never trust an ex-dope fiend turned Republican.
Good advice, W-King.
As a point of discussion, excluding the fact that she is Republican, why does having Palin as President screw us a nation?
She seems like a competent Governor. Do you not think she'll try to reform some of the mess and overspending in Washington?
why does having Palin as President screw us a nation?
Questions like this are why I weep for what our country has become.
If you honestly think she's qualified, then you're part of the problem.
Because she is a vicious right-winger, AA. Wake up already. She laughed at jokes about her political opponent's cancer on an ultra=conservative radio talk show in Alaska.
We're screwed because she thinks man and dinosaurs coexisted.
We're screwed because she believes government should tell us that life begins at conception and that rapists have the right to chose the mother of their child.
Jeffrey Toobin replied, in part: "[W]ho are we to say where the bar is?"
With McBush/Caribou Barbie running for Prez/VP, we need to know where the bar is. Although a few stiff belts won't solve anything...I say, straight whiskey until both of them exit stage right.
a few stiff belts won't solve anything...
I'm going to pretend I didn't read that, Mary.
To the COL. and Mary: "a few stiff belts won't solve anything". As a professional drunk (being a drunk in New Orleans is a Civil Service position), I find that more than a "few" stiff belts solves everything. With something like 42-49% STILL behind McCain and Palin, the only way I can handle it is with my friends Jim Beam and that Russian, Smirnoff. They never let me down and give very good advice.
As a drunk, you've raised the bar, donald ;-)