MSNBC's Matthews, NY Times' Seelye pondered whether Biden will "help" Palin "with her chair" at debate
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SUMMARY: MSNBC's Chris Matthews and The New York Times' Katharine Q. Seelye asked whether Sen. Joe Biden will "help" Gov. Sarah Palin "with her chair" at the beginning of the vice-presidential debate. The question is one that presumably would not be asked if the two candidates were the same gender, and the premise of the question itself is false, as the debate format rules state that Biden and Palin will be "standing at podiums" -- a fact Seelye later acknowledged.
During the October 1 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, while discussing the upcoming October 2 vice-presidential debate at Washington University in St. Louis, host Chris Matthews asked if it would be appropriate at the start of the debate for Sen. Joe Biden to "dare reach over and help" Gov. Sarah Palin "with her chair." In addition, on October 2, New York Times reporter Katharine Q. Seelye asked on the Times blog The Caucus, "Will Mr. Biden help Ms. Palin with her chair?" The question is one that presumably would not be asked if the two candidates were the same gender. In addition, the premise of the question itself is false; according to the debate format rules on the Commission on Presidential Debates website, Biden and Palin will be "standing at podiums," a fact Seelye later acknowledged in an update to her post.
During Hardball, Matthews said: "Here's a great question. It's not in the Brooks Brothers' book of etiquette. I'll ask you, Michelle, but here's the question. As they're sitting down -- it's going to be a sit-down debate -- and she's having trouble with her chair -- you know how people sit down, they have to pull them in." After Michelle Bernard, president of the Independent Women's Forum, said "Yes," Matthews continued: "Does he dare reach over and help her? I gotta go to [Salon.com editor-in-chief] Joan [Walsh] with this one. Does he dare reach over, instinctively, or well-trained, or whatever, and help her with her chair from behind?"
In a blog post titled "The V.P. Debate: What to Watch for," Seelye listed "some things we'll be watching for," including: "How do Ms. Palin and Mr. Biden greet each other on stage?" She continued:
"This is a sit-down debate. Will Mr. Biden help Ms. Palin with her chair? If Mr. Biden does not make some gentlemanly gesture, it may be a tip-off that he's preparing mentally to clobber her. Or maybe he'll just be recalling the observation from Chairman Mao, that a revolution is not a dinner party."
Seelye has since updated her post to read:
We were mistaken and reported earlier in this space that the debate would be a sit-down affair, which is something the McCain camp wanted because the more intimate setting might have made it harder for Mr. Biden to attack Ms. Palin. But it turns out the two will be standing at separate lecterns.
[...]
The stand-up format avoids the awkward moment that could arise if the two were seated and Mr. Biden had to decide whether to pull out Ms. Palin's chair for her, a gesture that could in this context appear patronizing.
From the October 1 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:
MATTHEWS: Here's a great question. It's not in the Brooks Brothers' book of etiquette. I'll ask you, Michelle, but here's the question. As they're sitting down -- it's going to be a sit-down debate -- and she's having trouble with her chair -- you know how people sit down, they have to pull them in --
BERNARD: Yes.
MATTHEWS: -- does he dare reach over and help her? I gotta go to Joan with this one. Does he dare reach over, instinctively, or well-trained, or whatever, and help her with her chair from behind? Or is that kind of --
WALSH: Hey, I get two --
MATTHEWS: No, I want to know.
WALSH: I get two hard questions and --
BERNARD: No --
WALSH: I get two hard questions in a row? I think he helps her. What do you think, Michelle?
BERNARD: I think he helps her. There's absolutely no reason not to do so, and she's not somebody who's going to complain or think that she's been assaulted --
MATTHEWS: Right.
BERNARD: -- because he's being chivalrous.
MATTHEWS: Suppose she pulls that number and helps him with his chair?
BERNARD: She'll get the laugh of the night, yeah.
WALSH: Because he's so old? He's old, you know.
MATTHEWS: Oh, you are tough. You are tough. He did -- she did say that she's been listening to his speeches since 1972 --
WALSH: Nice -- that was a nice one.
MATTHEWS: -- when I believe she was in second grade.
Biden is a tired old windbag and Obama is stooge.
Nice partisan answer Max.
I thought Max's comment was very reality-based and non-partisan.
Of course, I think Sarah Palin could hold her own in a debate with a sled dog, so take my judgement into account.
The best thing Palin can do for herself tonight is to pretend not to understand the questions until time runs out.
The best thing she can do for those of us wanting to be entertained, and for the future of America, is to try her best to debate, providing comedy, and positive proof that she is the most ridiculous candidate ever to reach this level.
You hit the nail on the head, Colonel.
Partisan conservatives just cannot bring themselves to acknowledge what Palin is worthless as a candidate. She just doesn't have the ability, really, to do anything.
IMHO, Biden needs to be gentlemanly, but at the same time, he should treat Sarah Failin' as his debate opponent and nothing else. Taking care not to hurt her feelings or pull out her chair is sexism, IMHO. World leaders won't treat her with kid gloves, but Righties sure expect Biden to do so.
I say, go Joe, go. Trounce her. She has a clock that needs cleaning.
Don't go away mad, Sarah, just go away.
I don't know why McCain didn't just pick Paris Hilton. She does better campaign ads and she is more convincing at the "vote for me because I'm hot" stuff.
Actually, I think you'll find that many of the posters here aren't the raging hard left liberals you'd make us out to be. Many posters here are left-leaning centrists. Others are hard-lefties. Many of us (myself included) have and will vote for a Republican ticket. Hell, I even like Arlen Spector - and I voted for Schwarzenegger (twice). If anyone has the partisan blinders, it's you. but for you to paint posters here at MMfA as entirely partisan, you need to think again - and be honest about it (I know, honesty doesn't come easy to Conservatives, but give it a try).
And if you want to talk about disliking an entire ticket, by all means, dislike Obama/Biden. I can sit here and almost guarantee that the Obama/Biden Administration will be 1000% better than the Bush/Cheney Administration could EVER HOPE TO HAVE BEEN.
My apologies CommonSense if I offended you; I do tend to get overly aggressive while swimming in a pool with so many liberals ;)
By the way, Conservatism does not equal Bush/Cheney.
I do not much care for much of the Bush presidency, and I absolutely hate his fiscal policy, and I’m mad as hell as his urging that we all sign on this ill conceived bailout.
I’m mad at republicans and democrats alike.
Because I back McCain/Palin does not make me a Republican. I’m quite unhappy with that party now, I’m just more unhappy with the Democratic party.
The problem is that you come on here so often with right wing talking points instead of any real reason for your opinions.
Being unhappy with the candidates is not really doing anything, is it? If you want to change things you need to get active by reading and studying the issues as objectively as possible, then joining a group that is trying to change things. If you tend to vote Republican, join the local party and take it back. My 2 cents.
When one student responded, "I'd like a display of knowledge and expertise," Matthews interjected: "So you're on the Obama side, right?" Matthews then asked a different student, in an apparent shot at Sarah Palin, if a "candidate for Vice President should be able to get into Washington University?"
The best chance for conservatives may be McCain/Palin but the ONLY choice for Americans is Obama/Biden.
The best chance for conservatives may be McCain/Palin?
Are you serious? McCain is a complete RINO. Max, no disrespect, but McCain is only slightly more Conservative than Hillary, and that's not very comforting. And IMHO, there's really no good choice for Americans this year.
You're right dave .. I meant given our current choices.
Agreed then, Max. Its the equivalent of being shot to death or stabbed to death. The end results are the same. Its scary to think that this is the best America could do.
The best chance for conservatives may be McCain/Palin but the ONLY choice for Americans is Obama/Biden.
That’s bumper-sticker material man!
In what respect Max?
That it was witty and memorable?
Dude, it was a complement.
To be honest, it is a bit long for a bumper-sticker, but I didn’t think I would need to explain it in detail.
I was just breaking your balls with my smartassed repitition of a recent quote in the news.
I'd guess that everybody got your joke, WK. Except for those whose sources protect them from certain realities.
No! Really? You're staunchly conservative? I hadn't noticed. ;)
The best chance for conservatives in America is the McCain / Palin ticket
And the good of the country be damned. I've always been struck with how some of you seem to be Republicans first and Americans second. Ideology before country...
no, some of us believe small government, personal responsibility, and Christian morals would be good for America.
PS. You don’t need to be a Christian to appreciate Christian morals ;)
And when exactly was the last time the Republican Party demonstrated any of those things?
Sadly, not often enough. I'm in the unfortunate position of having to choose between the lesser of two evils.
If I felt my only choices were evil I wouldn't vote...
That's about where I'm at, Irony, but there are many other races in which to vote on here in NY. The Presidency is a waste of time this time around.
Certainly it would be a switch from warrantless wiretapping, Abrahmoff and legalized torture.
Cons are deluded about Palin just like they're deluded about the war. They simply cannot admit failure or see reality as most normal people do. It would be simply pathetic if it our whole quality of life wasn't on the line this election.
You know, this guy is a troll and also more than one person. They are suddenly showing up on every liberal-left blog. Ignore him and stick to the topic.
Such as:
There will be no chairs, they say. And I'm more worried about Biden helping Palin with her cheatsheet written notes, which she uses at ALL her debates and that nobody ever seems to notice. I guess it's OK to cheat...
Yes I am!
No I'm not!
Yes I am!
...
Look, I'm only one person and I only post on MMFA and only under one name. I post here because I care what happens to this country. I post here to try to engage opposing viewpoints in intelligent debate. While I disagree with just about 90% of the posters here, I don't let that stop me. I would find no solace in posting on a conservative website where everyone agreed with me.
Max I do not agree with you politically but please continue to post your opinions. I have been targeted for termination by some "Liberal" posters on here, they accuse me of things worse than you have been accused. Solidarity !!!!!!
Stop whining. You're not "targeted" for anything except in your quest to embellish your standing in your own mind.
This is BS. The media for many years now have been holding Democrats to a higher standard when it comes to debates. Who are they to say who should be held to what standard?
Liberal media my ass.
PS. Vice presidential debates are very forgettable and only happen once. I think it's still a toss-up as to who is more likely to win. Biden does put his foot in mouth from time to time, and Palin gives very incoherent, non answers. In fact, she is known as the queen of non answers. If the media likes non-answers that incoherent, she might be SEEN as the winner. In 2004, Dick Cheney was caught in quite a few lies at the VP debate and no one really cared. Obama still has 2 more debates to go, and just remember, Biden and Palin are non the ones running for president.
And if Palin wants to make it through this debate, maybe she could just show up in a red, white, and blue bikini top. Other than that, I don't think she has much chance of winning. But she can see Russia from her house.
Will either thank the Iranians/persian's for inventing the chair?
I'm guessing not.
They're going to be at podiums. There aren't any chairs. Matthews, showing his ignorance, yet again.
And Max, if you're not all conservative all the time, then why do you re-post the daily Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, et all talking points? Man, I haven't seen an original thought from you on here yet. It's just more and more talking points, and the things I've heard on right wing radio since I started listening to those guys.
Max; what is your view of conservative values? I know, christian morals, smaller government. Which Christian moral values though? Something like no war, no death penalty, good acts towards your fellow man, prop up the poor, help the poor, taking care of the Earth, and so on and so forth? Or are you more in the vein of god hates gays?
I'm thinking the latter.
I'm watching the debate now, so far Palin doesn't sound like a ditzy dingbat, but she sure does sling the lies freely. It will be interesting to see if she can last the entire 90 minutes...
well, 43 minutes into the debate Palin got that deer in the headlights stare momentarily. She's also starting to repeat her answers over and over like a broken record.
Will somebody please tell her that it's nuclear? God, another bush.
Snoop, I'm watching it too,and she's actually forming sentences well enough to satisfy anybody who's impressed by her in the first place.
Did you catch her little disclaimer very early on, a few minutes in when she needed her first dodge? It was along the lines of "I may not answer these questions the way the moderator or my opponent likes, but I'm talking straight to the American people!"
Meaning she doesn't understand the concept of a debate, or was armed with this as her "Get out of debate free" card. She's going straight into talking points.Watch for the righty pundits to get all swoony over her mavricky refusal to obey our Earth laws of debate.
And I can't believe she repeated one of her goofiest bungles from that recent interview, after having it pointed out many times. Her opinion that we don't need to worry about the causes of Climate Change, we just have to start doing something about it. Huh?
It's about time! I wasn't sure Joe was ever gonna challenge that maverick claim Palin keeps making! It wasn't a bad response, but he should have closed by pointing out that mccain voted with bush 95% of the time.
Exactly what I was thinking. That should be drilled in constantly.
I don't think she understood the whole format thing.
I felt like she was hitting on anyone watching with all of that winking and girlish tittering.
She... oh Christ I've got to turn the sound off Pat Buchanan's going to have an orgasm.
King, I was a little transfixed by the alternate reality going on at Fox, especially Hannity going into hyper-delusion-drive, but I just flipped on MSNBC, and Buchanan is making Hannity look like a reasonable human. I missed all of the anger and frustration coming from Biden as Palin dealt knockout blows. I was watching mild amusement that his opponent had taken a little break from the debate to show off the homework she'd been doing the past few weeks.
Bizarre.
yup, I thought that was amazing. I also found it quite stupid of her to say Joe was spending more time looking back and blaming the bush admin instead of looking forward - on a question about the bush administration! But I suppose that week of cramming at camp debateya helped.
Wonder when or if you "edumacated" elitists will apply the same qualitative linguistic standards in reminding Massachusetts Democratic demogogues that the letter in the alphabet is "R" not "ah"...
That's it? You're actually gonna compare completely mispronouncing a word with regional dialect? Boy, you wingers really are elitists...
Ok, she made it through without thoroughly humiliating herself, but there's no way anyone will be able to honestly claim she won that debate. Biden dominated in knowledge, facts, logic and poise.
there's no way anyone will be able to honestly claim she won that debate.
You're obviously not watching Fox news, Bill. Apparently, debates are about emotional appeals to the stoopidest Americans, and "personality".
Help us all if the average American is anywhere close to the average Fox viewer or commentator.
I thought Biden was good. Palin did better than I expected as far as on the ocasion using complete sentences. Spewed an impressive list of figures once. Otherwise, let's revisit all of our current talking points and say maverick several times.
Pat Buchanon thought she won. Will he still think so tomorrow?
How did it play with the independents is the thing.
I watched just enough of the "debate" to realize that all Palin would do is mug for the camera, say her talking points with a gee whiz golly folksy grin while Biden, who actually understands what he's talking about, would have to just put up with her.
Our local air america affiliate is running an abc feed with those dreadful "undecided voters." Two women who sounded a lot like Palin thought she would bring some down to earth common sense from middle america to Washington. Gack!
Well, I watched the whole thing and what caught my attention was that she was just so gosh darn folksy. But it was kind of a dustbowl folksy without the earth and the grit. Behind the facade (I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt) she wasn't actually saying much. Being folksy consumes time, ya know.
Biden came across as not only more knowledgable and clear--not to mention more to point--but he seemed more at ease and natural. He inhabited himself more.
That doen't mean that some will not judge Palin "the winner". But even though she exceeded her Couric Threshold, it still seemed like there was not much of anyone home.
Well said. I like "kind of a dusbowl folksy without the earth and the grit." She definitely seemed animated, but a lot of people make all kinds of motions without too much behind it.
That's what I got out of Palin tonight. My BS detector went off the first time I heard her speak, and her recent interviews have revealed her as a low-level,untalented bullshlt artist. Tonight she came off as a slightly more competent bullshltter, one that, with a little coaching, can distract enough to appeal to the easily fooled.
A poster here (I think it was DJasper) recently mentioned growing up in SoCal, and the training it gives a person in spotting a phony. I think Palin gets the small town vote, not because they're stupid, they just haven't had the hands-on experience with a high concentration of scammers that those in big cities or other con-artist magnet areas have.
I'll grant you she did seem animated. But compared to her cadaverish running mate, a mummy would look lively. The folksy thing will wear thin soon. I'm sure it's going to go over well in those places where her team really needs the votes. Like the eastern states she ridicules and in places like Michigan where her camp has rolled up the tent and moved out.
I don't think America is ready for a rabidly conservative Ma Joad. Although soon she may have to gather grandpa, grandma, Rose of Sharon and the rest of the kids into the beat up old seaplane and fly off for the rapture.
If'n they get into Alaska airspace on their way to the rapture, they might run into Putin's nose and lose a wing or two.
Targeted for termination? Please ...Get over the persectution complex ...
Targeted for ridicule, scorn, derision maybe ...