Pittsburgh Post-Gazette uncritically quoted audience member at Palin rally repeating discredited birth certificate smear of Obama
SUMMARY: Reporting on a rally Gov. Sarah Palin held in Pennsylvania, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette quoted an audience member saying of Sen. Barack Obama: "Tell him to go back to Indonesia. Tell him to show his birth certificate." The Post-Gazette did not note that the charge that Obama has not released a valid U.S. birth certificate has been widely debunked.
In an October 24 article about a rally Gov. Sarah Palin held in Beaver, Pennsylvania, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette quoted an audience member saying of Sen. Barack Obama: "Tell him to go back to Indonesia. Tell him to show his birth certificate." The Post-Gazette did not note that the charge that Obama has not released a valid U.S. birth certificate has been widely debunked. As Media Matters for America has repeatedly documented, the Obama campaign has posted a copy of Obama's birth certificate on its "Fight the Smears" website and reportedly provided the original to FactCheck.org, whose staff concluded in an August 21 post that it "meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship." A Hawaii Health Department official also reportedly confirmed to PolitiFact.com that Obama's birth certificate is valid.
As Media Matters noted, on the October 3 broadcast of Clear Channel's The War Room, Pittsburgh-based syndicated radio hosts Jim Quinn and Rose Tennent hosted Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg to discuss his lawsuit, which baselessly alleges that Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen. During the interview, Quinn, Tennent, and Berg each repeated the discredited charge that Obama has not released an authentic birth certificate establishing that he was born in the United States, and therefore could be ineligible to run for president. In recent days, conservative radio hosts Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh, and WorldNetDaily.com staff writer Jerome Corsi have each suggested or asserted that the true purpose of Obama's current trip to Hawaii is not to visit his ailing grandmother, as Obama claims, but rather to address these same discredited rumors that Obama has failed to produce a valid U.S. birth certificate.
According to a Nexis* and post-gazette.com search, the Post-Gazette previously wrote one article mentioning Obama's birth certificate. A July 20 article -- which compiled local blog postings -- quoted a Pittsburgh blog noting that, contrary to a Pittsburgh radio host's claim, the Obama campaign has posted his birth certificate on his website. From the article:
As if Barack Obama didn't have enough PR trouble thanks to the New Yorker, Two Political Junkies reported calling into Mike Pintek's "Night Talk" show the other day to address yet another "Obama smear."
"The smear?
"Obama won't release his birth certificate. Only the birth certificate would prove that he was born in the United States. The (not-so) hidden implication is that Sen. Obama isn't born in the United States and so therefore ineligible to be president.
"When I called into the show to let them know that Pintek was mistaken, I was told that he was aware of the controversy surrounding the certificate and that parts were 'whited out.'
"Guess what? The campaign has posted the birth certificate" at fightthesmears.com.
From the October 24 Post-Gazette article:
She cited Mr. Obama's encounter earlier this month with Joe Wurzelbacher, a Toledo, Ohio, plumber who pressed him to explain his tax policies. At the time, Mr. Obama cited his proposal to raise taxes on incomes over $250,000 as an attempt to "spread the wealth."
"Somehow Joe accomplished something none of the rest of us has been able to do. He got our opponent to finally state his intentions in plain language," Ms. Palin said. "Joe the Plumber said it sounded like socialism. Now is not the time to experiment with socialism."
Even before Ms. Palin invoked that term, some in the crowd were shouting it, with one adding, "Tell him to go back to Indonesia. Tell him to show his birth certificate."
Ms. Palin pointed out a man in the audience who carried a sign labeling himself, "Bill the Mechanic."
* SEARCH TERMS: publication (Post-Gazette) AND obama AND birth certificate
Here we go again. More ignorance blasted from the McCain-Palin pack. Un-freakin'-believable is what I'm saying here. I'm sure we'll have our resident birth certificate trolls who will show up here in short order to argue that the BC that Obama has provided isn't good enough, or something like that shortly, or that it's fake, or that he's actually going to Hawai'i not to visit his ailing grandmother, but instead to doctor up some sort of birth certificate.
It's funny how we have a team of "birth certificate trolls", a team of "Savage trolls" etc. and none of them seem to care enough about any other topic to make a comment. Not that I'm complaining.
Hey, WK. Yeah, there does seem to be a battalion of wingnut cadets doing their robot work. I just checked out yesterday's thread on the Birth Certificate topic, and there's 270+ comments, a good chunk of those from concerned citizens who appear to be immune to logic.
I'm beginning to think someone is doing a scripted posting attack, because notice how a large amount of the usernames are a word or name followed by what looks like random numbers. Plus, they all say the same thing. How are they getting around the probationary period, or is MM approving these repetitive posts?
Berg hasn't been put out for ridicule in the MSM because he's not worth the bother.
Most of us know that he lived for some time as a child in Indonesia. Big deal. It has no bearing on his qualifications to be President. As for the other names he's gone by, Obama himself has talked about those in his books. Nothing sinister or hidden there.
It's pure arrogance to second-guess the decisions a family makes on situations such as a sick relative. Different families handle such situations differently.
There's no point in filing a countersuit to a frivolous lawsuit such as Berg's. If it can be demonstrated that he lacks standing to file suit, it's the easiest way to make a nuisance go away. The suit has several parts to it and wouldn't be satisfied by simply providing the documents. If they start responding to some parts of the silliness and not others, internet clowns would be jumping up and down about the silly parts they're ignoring. They're taking the correct approach.
Sure, there are other suits. It's easy to file frivolous lawsuits.
If there were any reasonable legitimacy to the claims Berg makes the republican party would be all over it. They aren't because they recognize that it's a baseless attack and that it would backfire on them if they got behind it.
NO BECAUSE THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA ARE IN THE TANK FOR OBAMA AND THEY DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH SO THEY PROTECT HIM. THEY KNOW IF AMERICA FINDS OUT THE TRUTH ABOUT HIM AND THEN THEIR 'SAVIOR' WOULD NOT GET ELECTED.
LIKE I SAID IF THIS WAS MCCAIN YOU THIS MEDIA WOULD BE SCREAMING THEIR HEADS OFF
FREEDOM OF THE PRESS WHATEVER
I agree it sounds nutty and Berg is eccentric to say the least. However Obama hs not presented a long form birth certificate. A website is not a US District court. The faster, least costly way to dispell this is to simple present it. If he is not a natural born citizen, he cannot run. I suspect as wacky as this first appears that there is some truth to it and if so we are going to have a huge constitional crisis.
Another sock-puppet concern troll posting the same BS.
Here it is again:
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
It's the official document from the state of Hawaii that tells where he was born. That's a legal document, period.
Obviously you are ignorant of what the court asked for. A long form birth certificate....it's not difficult to get I am no sock puppet...just not a total swooning zombie. I suppose if he admitted he was not a natural born citizen the extreme left would make the case to change the constitution.....because he is "the choosen one"
the one issued by the state says "city,,of birth" as honolulu. and "island of birth" as oahu. it also says "filed by registrar" on august 8, 1961. so what is your claim? that the state of hawaii is giving out a fake certificate?
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
And. Here. We. Go. Again...
Has McCain presented his? Or Biden? Or Palin? There is no reason to question that Obama wasn't born here. This is nothing but an internet rumor. If there was any question do you think the RNC would keep quiet about it? Do you think Hillary would've let it slide in the primary? I repeat this is nothing but a foolish internet rumor but it will probably haunt Obama throughout his presidency and beyond. Much like the "murder" of Vince Foster continues to haunt President Clinton.
This birth certificate smear and the tactics used to defend it remind me of the attacks on Kerry regarding his military record. The Cons on this very board kept saying, "Why won't Kerry release his records?" and we'd say, "He already has.", and then they'd just say again, "Why won't Kerry release his records?". The tactic is used to obfuscate. The same thing is happening her. Thankfully, there's no slimy 527 ad campaign to back it up. Though, if there were, all Obama would have to do is run an ad showing this:
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
Most peple with common sense can recognize a birth certificate when they see one.
Yeah, except I don't believe its a "tactic". More like refusing to acknowledge reality. (see evolution, climate change, Palin's qualifications, etc. etc.)
It's a tactic. Why all of the trolls for this one subject, with similar usernames and arguments? It's not your typical in-denial wingnuttery.
My apologies, Once. I don't check MM as often as I should. I see you have been doing this dance (admirably, i might add) since the 350 plus post thread from yesterday. You're right. Tactic.
I wonder, how many of us could "prove" that we're really citizens?
This smacks of desperation, and I'll bet a dollar to a donut that it won't go away after the election, even if Obama wins. There will be a "grassroots" movement to have the election nullified over this bogus Birth Certificate controversy. This, of course, will be good for the economy, since an entirely new cottage industry will spring up to employ disgruntled Troglodytes, much as we had in the 90s.
Actually it's pretty easy. On the long form certificate it states the hospital, city and state of birth whereas on the short one typically it does not. IF he is not a citizen and cannot produce evidence to that effect you can shoot the messengers but it's his fault for being deceptive.
Just show the birth certificate.
Amen and not the stupid link to a website picture. We have all seen it a thousand times...
It's been shown. Now show yours.
Thing is, on my official Birth Certifcate from Maine (I have it in my wallet actually), there is less information than the one that Obama has shown, and yet, it's still valid.
For those of you who keep saying why doesn't he show it? He has. Move on. Nothing to see here at ALL.
What was the hospital McCain was born in and who was his doctor? Obama was born at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu. The certificate provided has a raised seal,
and is certified by the state registrar.
And there's even an announcement in the local paper:
So now we expect you to provide equally extensive evidence about mccain's hospital, copies of his birth certificate and newspaper announcements proving mccain really is a US citizen. In the meantime see if you can pass the following test on being a real american.
Notice the people whipping themselves up into a faux lather about this "issue" have no response to this post, you lovable doggie, you. Thank you very kindly.
woof! ;)
They did get mighty quiet, didn't they? And Snoopy, why haven't you posted this weeks TMW?
Dang!
Thanks Col. Just e-mailed it to my kids. (not goats, by the way ;-(
There was absolutely no reason to bring that in to the article except to further the smear. I question whether anyone actually shouted that at all.
This is the most BS board ever. Liberals talking about being Liberal and flagging anyone they disagree with. I tried to be civil and pose a common sense question. I should have none that common sense is suspended in your worlds. Have a nice day. Keep posting those links to the website.
OK
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
Flagged as troll.
Hi, OnceyougoBarack! I'd love to hang around and talk about being liberal, but I'm a little pressed for time. I have to go flag some people that I disagree with. Sorry!
There's a difference between debate and deliberate troll behavior. See the previous thread on this topic that ended up over 300 posts. I haven't seen a thread that big in a long time. It was all caused by several "posters" who all were positing the same exact argument and also exhibited the same reluctance to accept both logic and the obvious evidence.
I tried to be civil and pose a common sense question (chrisdj#####)
And good for you for trying. Better luck next time!
There is no common sense in your question, because there is no question to be asked. Obama has proven out that he's a natural born American citizen, it's people like you that don't accept the answer that is the frustrating part of things.
It's not that we disagree with you (we do), it's that what you're asking is stupid and ignorant and avoids all of the facts put forth in front of your face.
Indeed, I don't know how I'd prove that I'm a citizen. But I can see why the document posted on the internet is only fueling the fire. For some reason the certificate number is blacked out. When I think of a birth certificate, I picture signatures and some sort of stamped seal, and I don't see any of that. Plus it's only an image on a web page. I myself have no doubts at all about Obama, but the image posted at fightsmears must look like flaming damnation to anyone disposed to dispose of Obama. Really, there's nothing to do about these people but let them fight it out in court. In three months Obama will be in the White House and they'll still be poring over obscure legal documents. Hey, it least it keeps 'em busy.
Not properly vetted - you mean Palin, right?
Flagged as troll. Move on.
The very fact that a troll army is descending on MM all of a sudden, and only on this topic indicates to me that these are some sort of paid trolls or perhaps all the same person.
Thankfully, the tactic is a pretty poor one. At least with the swiftboat smears, they were able to get enough folks to lie about Kerry's record and their interaction with him to cast some doubt. In this case, they've got nothing.
Wow, Snoopy now THAT's strange cuz he was ALSO born in Queens Hospital in Honolulu. Check it (not only here but anywhere else): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen's_Medical_Center
I'm not sure what a troll is but it doesn't sound too good. I hope I'm not one of those. Is OnceYouGoBarack some sort of official moderator at MM, or just some guy who's freaking out? Anyone know anything about him?
I'd emphasize the raised seal and the local newspaper article, as posted by Snoopy. At least I would if I thought it would make any difference. But it won't, either way. Obama is on his way to a landslide, and I don't think any reasonable voters care about the 'birth right' issue.
I'm not a moderator at all. I'm just a poster who decided that I wouldn't let smears go unanswered. After the last thread on this subject has blown up to over 300 posts, I realized that some sort of coordinated wingnut attack is going on here. They keep asking for proof of Obama's birth place. We provide it to them, and then they ask again.
I would hope that this thread doesn't blow up in a similar way. So, instead of feeding them the truth that they refuse to accept, I'm just going to flag them.
I do admire OnceYouGoBarack's determination. I think BottleBlond is back... Snoopy busted the whole game pretty well also. (To use Palin-grammar)
Actually, I'm an old poster that started posting on here in the beginning in 2004 under my real name, including my email address. I got rather obsessed with it and had to quit. I gave up the MM habit for a couple years, but this election is sucking me back in.
I don't want to seem like a pestering jerk, but the whole swiftboating of Kerry got me really mad. I've supported Obama from the beginning partially because I sensed that he wouldn't lie down for the swiftboat treatment like many others would. He hasn't. He's done an excellent job diffusing the smears. That's why only these tin-foil hat nutjobs are still trying to keep the birth certificate meme alive.
Hopefully, I can post something more insightful and less repetitive in the future.
I agree about the infuriating tactics of these swiftboaters. But they all fall in the end, don't they? Now the term "swiftboating" refers to underhanded false smearing.
And welcome back, by the way. My real name IS Mary. Your repeat posts did remind me of bottleblonde's tenacity ;-)
Welcome back, Once. I was here early on, too. I even remember the brief time when they didn't filter obscenity. Now that was fun!
By the time I came here, I had already learned a quick lesson about using your real name. I did that on a local board for a time, and had to quit posting there. Amazing what some so-called "Christians" will do and say when they are confronted by an unapologetic Liberal who disagrees with them.
Well, luckily I have a really common name. Strangely, I never received hate mail though I did get a lot of positive mail from folks, some of which became virtual friends. I used to post long dissertations on subjects only to be dismissed by those who have long ago abandoned their logic centers. I gave up and decided to go the snarky, dismissive rout.
In those days, the troll problem was much worse than it is now. Does anybody remember a guy named Beans? I think people got smarter about handling them and thus it wasn't as much fun disrupting threads. I still see long time Cons around such as AnotherAmerican, Wesley and Dave. However, their rhertoric seems less bellicose and threatening. Perhaps being on the wrong side of history has worn them down.
I thnk a troll is anyone whose comments might be seen as negative about Obama. A troll's comments are censored.
-- A Hawaii Health Department official also reportedly confirmed to PolitiFact.com that Obama's birth certificate is valid. -- mmfa
While Janice Akubo of the Hawaii Dept. of Health made the statement that the copy she examined from politifact was a valid birth certificate...she also said:
"I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents."
The debunking claimed by mmfa is not so cut and dried.
So she said she viewed the certificate, made the statement that it is indeed real and valid, but she doesn't know what is on the website? That doesn't even make sense.
She verified the birth certificate. End of story.
The man was born in Hawai'i. WTF people?
-- That doesn't even make sense. -- magnolia
Read the link provided by mmfa...that's exactly what she says and mmfa chooses to only use part of her statement.
The HDE spokesman has no way of actually verifying the authenticity of an email copy...that's why she closed with her caveat.
Oh, so now we've moved on to the ol it's valid, but because MMFA supposedly provided something incomplete we still have an issue with it meme.
Wes doesn't have time to read all the documents that you posted above, 'cause...he's a wild and CRAZY GUY!!!
C'mon snoop...you know better than that. It was simply pointing out that mmfa is not pure in its reporting. They are very good about providing supporting info...but they're not above playing it coy when it suits them...and this is one example.
Valid? Maybe - maybe not...but there are valid questions until Obama or Hawaii or the courts ascertain the facts...the facts that are mostly missing at this point...regardless of mmfa and the Obama supporters unwilling to face them.
So why didn't you say so? All those images I supplied mean nothing! Got it, Wes!
It's like all the right wingers here are imitating Rainman or something.
Righty- Where's his birth certificate?
Answer- Its'right here take a look.
Righty- Uh... Where's his birth certificate?
Sure they mean something...but they're hardly the last word or like the defining moment in a Perry Mason episode...but you're doing good.
By the way...your wiki link doesn't work.
I've talked with state depts. at Washington and Kansas but not Hawaii..and they both state that "all" supporting documents used to complete this form are kept on file. They would be mighty handy in clearing this up...and within range of a man with your sleuthing talents.
Another little nit picky aside...ol Albert Onaka doesn't certify that the form is accurate...he certifies that it is a true copy of the one on file.
But keep digging...I look forward to your updates.
Thanks for letting me know about the wiki link on the hospital, wes. Sometimes these things just don't paste quite right. Ya know, I used to say that 15 years ago - amazing how some things never change! ;)
Yep...I here you.
I tried to follow your link the old fashioned way by doing a little searching thru wiki...but I couldn't find exactly where you were referencing so I gave up.
Keep at it...and happy hunting!
Part and parcel of an overal meme to deligitmise Obama.
Any of these folks presented with the evidence who refuse to acept it, would you trust any of them with something important, your kids safety?
Wesley you report that the registrar only state the the document is a true copy of the document on file ,what is it a copy of?
That's the question...he didn't swear that the info was true...he said it was a true copy.
When you find out...let me know.
This is pure BS Wesley, you may need more proof ????????? I want to talk about the issues, this is not one that concerns me. I don't fear Barack Obama, he is not some lefty or "Manchurian" canidate. If you look at his advisers and the pick of his VP he seems to be more a "centrist" and very conservative. I would like for him to take stronger stands on alot of issues, but being a member of a sleeper cell or someone we need to fear is just pure BS! How petty you seem to raise this BC issue less than 11 days before an election,if it's important to you,SHOW WHAT YOU GOT!
Whoa Nelson...you've slid off the road.
I don't fear Obama or think he is a member of a secret muslim sleeper cell. Also, I didn't raise the issue of his birth certificate yesterday or today...I've simply commented on the issue. You'll see very plainly in the topic headlines that mmfa raised the issue on this site.
You are exactly right on the proof issue. You're welcome to peruse my comments and provide any answers or not...it makes no difference to me what you do.
You're welcome to your own definition of centrist but here's what the American Conservative Union thinks of his VP pick. They gave him a rating of zip, nada, nil, nothing...a big fat zero rating.
Let the engine cool down...pour a little water in the radiator...then start her up and ease back on the road.
HOLY CRAP! There's no air in the tires!!!!
There are currently 3 birth certificate lawsuits in place. The most recent was filed in Hawaii late last week. Another has been filed in Washington state. Unfortunately, the mainstream media isn't reporting them.
To see the 10 minute video of Berg explaining the details surrounding the lawsuit in easy to understand terms:
http://willnevergiveup.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/lawsuit5/
There's a difference between debate and deliberate troll behavior. See the previous thread on this topic that ended up over 300 posts. I haven't seen a thread that big in a long time. It was all caused by several "posters" who all were positing the same exact argument and also exhibited the same reluctance to accept both logic and the obvious evidence.
-- There's a difference between debate and deliberate troll behavior. --
You're certainly correct in that observation.
mmfa sponsors this comments section with the welcome expectation of differing points of view. They invite posters to "join the discussion". It's not a debate forum where teams or individuals argue their positions and then a winner/loser is declared.
There are no winners/losers when a discussion is over. It's an exchange of ideas and opinions. Sometimes these discussions are genteel and sometimes they result in pretty sharp elbows...and yes...even insults.
A college basketball referee once told me about his position on fan behavior at the game...which I think is appropriate to this forum. He had a few simple rules...stay in your seat...don't throw things on the floor...and don't be profane. Beyond that, be as loud and raucous as you want in supporting your team.
We should not be so pompous to think we are the sole arbiter and judge as to what others think is "logical and obvious"...a behavior that many of us fall prey to at times. But that's a natural outcome of passion for one's team.
mmfa offers some pretty good advice..." DON'T take another person's comments personally. Have a thick skin and ignore posters who insist on trolling, obscenities, and name-calling.".
mmfa's "flag this comment" privilege comes with responsibility...it is "not to remove opinions you do not agree with or to retaliate against users you dislike. Users who abuse the privilege of flagging posts will be banned from the site."
The only harm anyone experiences in a "discussion forum" is egotistically self-inflicted.
And that will conclude my not-so-humble sermon on human behavior...laisse la bons temp rouler!
I'm all for debate. However, there was obviously a concerted troll effort on the previous article on this topic. They tried to start the same thing here but were shut down.
It's obvious that there were some people who opened multiple accounts and posted the same "argument" several times in order to give the view more weight. These people are often drive-by posters, who post once then never reply to the posts that refute their points. I'll continue to flag these folks when I can spot the behavior.
Like indecency, trolling is hard to define but I know it when I see it.
I am WAY over this campaign. Birth certificate, un-american, muslim-huggin', baby killin', blah, blah, blah. The McGoo horde has not only discredited itself, but the whole Republican Party. The Grand Old Whatever will be left with only the die-hard, super right nut cases that we see burrowing out of the steaming dung heap at Palin's "Triumph off der Vill" gatherings. Actually I am grateful for Sarah's "real america" routine. Gets ME thinkin', you betcha.
I don't get it....Palin calls me "Joe Six Pack"...is she trying to identify with me, I guess that's her point...but why in the hell does she have to dress in $150,000 of clothes...foreign clothing...does she think I don't get it...she's not fooling me.
Bob
Ok, well it's been a few days now and I figured I'd check back with the other thread where I asked for 2 things: Tell me what hospital BO was born in and the name of the doctor who delivered him. So far I have seen alot of rhetoric, name-calling, and snide comments. But Snoopy, in all his wisdom, went so far as to post the images from factcheck.org of BO's "certification of live birth", which answers neither of my questions. I don't see why you can't see that this document does NOT establish "natural born" status. EXAMPLE: My wife was adopted. She has a COLB that shows her adoptive parents as her "mother and father". It shows her place of birth as Town and Country, MO. So, if we use the BO standard, one would think that my wife was born in Town And Country, MO to the two people that adopted her. Again, using BO's standard, END OF STORY!! BUT, when we finally got down to the TRUTH and had the court release her BIRTH CERTIFICATE (prepared by the hospital, signed by the doctor) we find out that she has (surprise, surprise) two completely different people listed as the parents, and she was born in (ready?) STOCKTON, CA!!! SO STOP TELLING ME THAT THIS DOCUMENT THAT BARACK OBAMA HAS PROVIDED PROVES ANYTHING AND TELL ME THE NAME OF THE HOSPITAL AND THE DOCTOR WHO DELIVERED HIM!!!! Snoopy, NICE TRY. You gave a link that goes NOWHERE. Tell me again that he was born at Kapiolani, but prove it this time. Obama himself claims he was born in Queens hospital, so does that mean that Obama's LYING? GET PAST YOUR BLIND LOYALTY AND LOOK AT THE FACTS!!! NOONE HAS PROVEN THAT BARACK OBAMA IS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. THAT DOCUMENT PROVES NOTHING. OH, IT'S GOT A SEAL!!! OOOOOHHHHH!!! MY WIFE'S DOES, TOO!!! AND IT'S A COMPLETE LIE!
In case anyone's still looking at this board, check this out:
http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/
It's the docket for the Berg v. Obama et al. lawsuit. Last docket entry - dismissed. I guess the memorandum was prepared Friday 10/24 but not signed and posted until 10/27.
BTW, Berg is promising on his website to appeal this to the Supreme Court. Let's all hold our breath. These people are insane in the membrane.