Fox News' Jarrett falsely asserted the NY Times found that "the average plumber would pay less in taxes under John McCain"
SUMMARY: Fox News' Gregg Jarrett falsely asserted that The New York Times recently found that "the average plumber would pay less in taxes under John McCain than Barack Obama." In fact, the Times did not assess how "the average plumber" would fare under Obama's and McCain's tax plans -- he or she would get a bigger tax cut under Obama's plan, according to the Tax Policy Center -- but, rather, how their respective plans would affect an individual who is "a partner of a two-person company," that earns $280,000 "after business expenses are deducted," "[o]wns his own home and itemizes his taxes," "[i]s divorced but does not pay alimony," and "is a single parent with one dependent child."
On the October 24 edition of Fox News' America's Newsroom, guest host Gregg Jarrett falsely asserted that "several days ago," The New York Times "published a chart and in it, it showed that the average plumber -- not somebody making $250 and above -- but the average plumber would pay less in taxes under [Sen.] John McCain than [Sen.] Barack Obama." In fact, the chart the Times published on its Exonomix blog on October 17 in response to statements by "Joe the Plumber" did not examine how "the average" plumber would fare under Obama and McCain's tax plans but, rather, how much a person who bought a company with earnings of $280,000 after expenses would fare. In fact, based on wage statistics from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), an average-wage plumber would likely see a larger tax cut under Obama than under McCain.
According to the BLS, the mean annual wage for plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters in 2007 was $47,350. According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, an annual salary of $47,350 would fall in the middle quintile -- those earning $38,980, 60 to $69,490 annually. In 2009, people in the middle quintile "would receive an average cut equal to 2.6 percent of income ($1,118)" under Obama's tax plan, and "would receive an average cut equal to 0.8 percent of income ($325)" under McCain's tax plan. In 2012, households in the middle quintile of the income distribution "would receive an average tax cut equal to 4.7 percent of income or $2,197" under Obama's plan, and they "would receive an average tax cut of 3.1 percent of income, or $1,444," under McCain's plan.
By contrast, the Times chart examined how Obama's and McCain's tax plans would affect an individual who is "a partner of a two-person company," that earns $280,000 "after business expenses are deducted," "[o]wns his own home and itemizes his taxes," "[i]s divorced but does not pay alimony," and "is a single parent with one dependent child."
From the October 24 edition of Fox News' America's Newsroom:
JARRETT: All right, let's bring in our guest: Rich Lowry, editor for National Review. Jehmu Greene joins us, Democratic consultant, former president of Rock the Vote. Good to see you both.
LOWRY: Hi, Gregg.
JARRETT: Jehmu, let me begin with you. Even The New York Times, which today, of course, endorsed Barack Obama, several days ago published a chart and in it, it showed that the average plumber -- not somebody making $250 and above -- but the average plumber would pay less in taxes under John McCain than Barack Obama. Is this whole "Joe the Plumber" thing beginning to kind of rock the vote for McCain and rock the ship of Obama?
All this talk about plumbing and we still haven't mentioned the most iconic plumber of our time:
Thats a picture of mickey c. after his first date with cindy. I think he was in his early 30's.
So the average plumber doesn't have a plumbing license and makes more than $250K? Maybe the average plumber under a McCain microscope doesn't have a tax ID number and takes his pay under the table...
Time for a repeat of your chart, Snoop.
Always happy to oblige!
I loves good graphs!
I'm a numbers wonk and I like the chart...but "AVERAGE" is misleading I think you want to use "MEDIAN" to convey reality. Few Americans know the difference, sadly, I mean between average and median.
Nitpicky spelling note:it's "fare", not "fair".
$3.7M per year in sales might be more like it. Assuming that the profit margin is 15%, the plumber labor costs are 25% (and 65% going to material and overhead) then they would need to employ 17 full time salaried plumbers to generate this much business.
Thanks, hujambobwana , I didn't really do the math, or come up with hypothetical figures, I was just going for a low-ball estimate based on something close to reality.
I think this scenario was based on two guys who were actually doing the work, with no office or staff, driving around in their truck with cell phones.With no days off, and doing a couple thousand bucks worth of plumbing a day, it might make sense. Of course, they'd be doing really well even after taxes, but Fox News doesn't want that in their victim-mentality fantasy.
Thanks for the catch. We've corrected the misspelling.
Maybe these right wingers think that $250,000 is an average lowball, blue collar income.
Of course they do. They also think Joe the Plumber's wife can afford spending $150,000 in clothes and $50,000 in makeup every year.
I heard McCain make that claim during a speech just the other day. He was talking about the middle class, and how Obama's tax plan would INCREASE their taxes, which stands to reason that he was talking about middle class folks who make 250k or more per year. That ain't middle class folks. Nowhere close to it. Try my parents, who take home about 60k per year between the 2 of them. THAT'S middle class, and guess what? My Dad, he's a pipefitter.
According to the Plumber's Crack Daily, the average plumber wants to buy the plumbing company that he works for and so will have to pay more taxes in his fantasy business, no matter how clearly Barak Obama explains the matter to him. There are so many leaks in his logic.
Quit shouting down the American Dream, Mary. The average guy working the fry-cooker at McDonald's is thinking about buying a franchise. The only thing holding him back from leaving his $6 an hour job is those taxes.
This is how Republicans think.
I have to concur. A friend of mine has been struggling to get a business going based upon an invention for over 10 years. I met him a few years ago, liked his invention, honesty and his tenacity, and have been helping him refine it for market and manufacturing, finish his business plan, raise capital, start tooling, etc. Note that he has yet to make a penny from this, and for the past two years has been near destitute as he doesn't want to take a paying job so he can concentrate on obsessively on his invention.
Would you believe when Joe the Plumber hit FauxNews he voiced the same concern that taxes would eat him alive? As I said, he's a brilliant self-taught inventor but I recently discovered he doesn't know how to build and Excel spreadsheet. (He was using an adding machine and then entering his number in the Excel cells.)
He's never had a business, filed a Schedule C, had an LLC, S or C corp, nor comprehend deductions, depreciation, business expenses, etc.
I built him a quick tax calculator in Excel, showed how due to his deductions and past investments in his invention he would be making the equivalent of $1 million a year before he'd hit the $250K adjusted gross income. And this is someone who probably made less than $10,000 last year.
Yet he still believes McCain's fear mongering. Some people are just wired to believe the worst. At least he's a lot more honest than Joe.
You're a great friend. We tried years ago to start a business making the "super glider", a hand held glider designed by a former Boeing engineer who sold us his equipment. The gliders were great, but we couldn't make a go because we didn't have enough money or business experience. (The equipment was very hand-made & the process cumbersome as it was a very shoestring operation)
So now we have about 2,000 gliders in our shed, most which are somewhat defective because the business that put on the styrofoam wings used the wrong bead. We've enjoyed flying them and giving them to friends through the years...
I have been in business for almost 40 years. (my own retail store, manufacturing with 1 company rep, and wholesale to craft galleries) I am an artist/craftsman. People that have never had a small business have no clue. I see one MAJOR problem for your friend if he is able to get it in the marketplace: overseas knocknoffs (counterfiet). The Chinese will just start making it regardless of a patent. Your friend will need capital to fight the patent infringement. By the time he is successful (if he is successful) in stopping the knockoffs, the marketplace will be diluted. Americans (the vast majority) are less concerned with quality than price. I too have a machine I designed 22 years ago and the only way to sell it is to license the patent to an American tool selling company (they will put their brand on it) then I will get a royalty. Or, I cam make the machine one at a time, do trade shows (it cost 2-4 grand to do one of these) have product liability insurance, hire and accountant to pay quarterly and send in the paperwork. Doesn't all of this sound so exciting? That is why about 90% of new businesses go out of business the first year. This guys friends (you included) are telling this person: what a great product, I'd buy 2 when you get them made, hang in there etc. Then, when it comes to market there may not be a big enough market to make the project worth while. Inventors are generally multifacited individuals (wear many hats) and have more than one idea going and have somekind of income. A "kitchen table" invention sometimes makes it big. The odds are against it. I currently sell my handmade products to craft galleries all over the USA. I have sold to the Japanese TV corp., and QVC tv. I had 3 full time employees doing piece work (independent contractors save tons of paperwork) and a partner then. I am now a one man opperation. I do direct mail advertising my website and I have to make the product when I get an order. I love being free and independent (although sometimes when things are slow, I wish I had gone to medical school so I could be bush's proctologist). It is not easy. Everyday is a challenge. Tell your friend to keep all options on the table when it comes to marketing. A little bit of a whole lot is much better than a whole lot of a little bit.
Maybe mary59 could use bush and mickey c. a test pilots
After thought: People buy what they want and not what they need.
OOPS: If your friend wants to do well selling a product to Americans, create a product using grease, sugar and bleached white flour. Americans want these items even they they don't need them.
Congrats on your success & thanks for talking about it.
Thats sweet of you to say Mary and the way you said it was not contrary. I left a ton out but must say this: I am also a very good salesman. Always at the top with whatever company. This is integral in running a business unless you have other people do this. One must have many hats in order to succeed in a business. That is why most never try.
I admire those qualities (salesmanship, persistence, tons of hard work) when you have a good product. Here's to your continued success.
You are a good friend.
The average employer who has 20 schmucks like Joe the Laborer working for him. Fortunately, that employer can convince many of his Joe the Schmucks that voting Republican will move Joe closer to being the employer.
Joe the Sucker.
The average airline pilot?
An average airline pilot that pays taxes on 250K earnings needs a new tax advisor.
with the brain power exhibited by Joe the Plumber, it just might stop him.
it was bound to happen!
I just saw their new ad in my w. Ky newspaper. They also have moose gibblets on sale.