Misinformation about autoworkers' hourly compensation resurfaces on Hardball
SUMMARY: On Hardball, guest host Mike Barnicle did not challenge the false claim by Republican strategist Todd Harris that union autoworkers earn "70, $75 an hour," a claim also recently made on Hardball by a Heritage Foundation fellow and echoed by host Chris Matthews.
During the November 24 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, Republican strategist Todd Harris falsely asserted that union autoworkers earn "70, $75 an hour." Harris' claim -- which echoed the false assertion by host Chris Matthews on November 20 that members of the United Auto Workers (UAW) "negotiate for their salaries, and they're getting 70 bucks" -- was not challenged or rebutted by guest host Mike Barnicle. According to GM, the figure Harris cited includes not only current workers' hourly wages and benefits, including health care and retirement, but also retirement and health-care benefits that U.S. automakers are providing for retirees, as Media Matters for America has noted.
During the Hardball segment, Democratic strategist Steve McMahon asserted, "[B]efore you go after the guy making 25 bucks an hour, you ought to squeeze a little out of the guy making 25 million for taking his company into the tank." Harris replied, in part: "Well, I don't disagree. Well, first of all, they don't make 25 bucks an hour. They make a heck of a lot more than that in Detroit." Moments later, McMahon said of Harris, "This is the first time I've really heard anybody blame the guy making 25 or 30 or even $35 an hour for the economic collapse on Wall Street," at which point Harris interjected, "Or 70, $75 an hour."
Earlier in the segment, Harris said, "The UAW designed the contracts that are crippling from legacy costs. And, you know, it costs between 30 and 40 percent more in labor costs for Detroit to make a car than it costs for Toyota to make a car right here in the United States." But Harris did not acknowledge that these "legacy costs" -- medical benefits and pensions paid to retirees -- are included in the "70, $75 an hour" figure that he cited later on, falsely claiming this is what the average auto worker "make[s]."
As Media Matters noted, Hardball is one of several media outlets that are advancing the false claim that auto workers make $70 per hour or more. It is a claim promoted by some media conservatives who blame auto workers for the domestic auto industry's financial straits.
From the November 24 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:
BARNICLE: All right, let me ask you this, Todd. Who designed the cars? Did the UAW design these cars that nobody wants to buy?
HARRIS: No. The UAW designed the contracts that are crippling from legacy costs. And, you know, it costs between 30 and 40 percent more in labor costs for Detroit to make a car than it costs for Toyota to make a car right here in the United States. And that's all because of these crippling union contracts.
BARNICLE: And, Steve, that does lead to a potential problem for the incoming Obama administration, the need to step up to the unions and say, "Listen, we know you've given back a lot in your new contract, but you're going to have to give back even more right now for retirees who are on pay-less health benefits for their lives, and had the -- all of that stuff."
I mean, doesn't it present a problem?
McMAHON: Well, it presents a challenge, but I don't think it presents a problem.
I mean, basically, the wealthy in this country have feasted at the banquet table of lower taxes, and the middle class has paid the bill. And I think, you know, to get back to Todd's point -- or to get back to your point, Mike, this is a little bit of class warfare, because you have these CEOs coming to town -- and I'm not singling out the auto industry, because I don't think that they're any worse than anybody else -- coming to town with their -- in their private jets with their huge salaries, and they're essentially saying, "We need billions and billions of taxpayer dollars."
And you've got the guy who's making 25 bucks an hour on the line, and Todd's sitting there blaming him for the problem. He's not the problem.
And frankly, in this country, one of the reasons we have a union movement is so that people can afford to buy the automobiles that they make. That was Henry Ford's vision. It wasn't the vision of labor. It was the vision of the owner of the company: "The people who make my cars ought to be able to afford to buy them."
I think that's the right vision, and I think Senator Obama -- President-elect Obama agrees with me, and I think the majority of Americans do as well. And, you know, it's -- before it's -- before you go after the guy making 25 bucks an hour, you ought to squeeze a little out of the guy making 25 million for taking his company into the tank.
BARNICLE: Todd, are you going to sit there and take that big-time dis?
HARRIS: Well, I don't disagree. Well, first of all, they don't make 25 bucks an hour. They make a heck of a lot more than that in Detroit.
MCMAHON: OK, 30.
HARRIS: But I don't disagree. Hang the management out to dry, but we have got to have these union contracts on the table if we're going to talk about any realistic bailout for Detroit.
McMAHON: This is the first time -- I've got to tell you, I've been listening to the commentary for a long time. This is the first time I've really heard anybody blame the guy making 25 or 30 or even $35 an hour for the economic collapse on Wall Street. And I've -- and it's the first time I've heard anybody seriously suggest --
HARRIS: Or 70, $75 an hour.
McMAHON: It's the first time I've ever heard anybody seriously suggest that by penalizing them, you're going to fix the problem.
I -- normally -- Todd's a smart guy, but he doesn't believe this.
BARNICLE: No, we've got class warfare going on right here.
HARRIS: I'm not talking about the problem -- I'm not talking about the problem on Wall Street. I'm talking about the problem in Detroit here. We're talking about bailouts. And if we're going to bail out Detroit, then the union -- those union contracts have got to be on the table.
BARNICLE: Well, thank God we separated you two guys tonight. You're going to come to blows.
Ah, now it's $75 an hour? Wow, a $5 per hour raise in just 3 days. I want a job like that!
Barnicle was actually worse than just this. When the Dem weakling made a typical weakling rebuttal, Barnicle helped gang up on him, saying to Harris 'are you going to take what he's saying?'
It was an atrocious display. Harris spouted off a series of lies that went completely unchallenged. He talked over the dem with impunity.
Even worse, this morning, Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC had a sole series of Republican guests tell us how, what, and when Obama should govern-- again, with no contrary opinions allowed. She even flirted and giggled up one repub, claiming that 'things are complicated so I could really use you to help figure it all out...'
Just another reason not to watch these cable gabfests...short on facts and long on partisan blather.
Harris is off base when promoting a class war by blaming the auto worker for the woes of the auto industry...and McMahon is off base claiming that the middle class is paying most of the taxes because the rich are "feasting on low taxes".
On the auto industry...the UAW says:
-- The total labor cost of a new vehicle produced in the United States is about $2,400, which includes direct, indirect and salaried labor for engines, stamping and assembly at the automakers’ plants [about 8%]...
The vast majority of the costs of producing a vehicle and transporting it to a dealership and preparing it for sale – including design, engineering, marketing, raw materials, executive compensation and other costs – are not related to direct or indirect manufacturing labor. --
The real problem is that the automotive management is out of control...out of touch...and completely unaccountable.
If our dear, departed train conductor,solon, was still around, he would tell you that it's a crappy way to run a railroad.
I'm very interested to see what the big(?) 3 bring to the dance next Monday. From the discussions over the past several days, it appears that labor, whether it's $70/hr or $30/yr, is a minor cost in today's vehicle, that doesn't mean that that component can not be looked at along with the other components that make up the final MSRP of a vehicle. The automakers plan must be more than "labor needs to concede, because we need more for executive bonuses, etc." Any type of bailout plan by the government must include accountability from all parties involved, that's why bankruptcy cannot be taken off the table completely before the plans are revealed.
According to a Reuters report...GM reported a loss of $39 Billion in 2007. No matter how you cut it...the problems at GM go much deeper than individual compensation for line workers or execs.
I agree that there are many components to the problem...including compensation. But I think the largest issue is simply an industry that has run amok. The solution? Damned if I know...but I'd be hard pressed to justify sinking more money in this rathole.
And I'm like about 85% of America...I have little faith in our govt. to handle the situation any better.
$39 billion equates to how much per vehicle, any idea???
I found one article that put world wide vehicle sales for the big(?) three at about 20 million units in 2005, Assuming around 9 for GM, loss would be around $4000 per unit, well above the labor cost (at $70 or $30/hr). There is something structurally wrong in the industry, especially in and around MI. They had better bring something awful good to the table on Monday.
Here's a link you might find interesting, Oscar.
It's a self-described talking points memo from GM about the current situation:
http://www.rab.com/public/reports/111008TalkingPointsUpdate.pdf
Lost 39 Billion in 2007, plan to enhance liquidity by 20 Billion. I'm no accountant nor trained economist, but that still appears to leave about a 20 Billion shortfall (unless sales miraculousy double or something on that order happens).
In the meantime, you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving. On the road tomorrow to see family and plan to spend the next several days on the real important things in life, enjoying family and getting to know the latest grandchild. See you all on Tuesday.
union autoworkers earn "70, $75 an hour
Harris is either ignorant or a pathological liar. Ok, so he is both. This statement is false, an outright lie--no matter which way you spin it. The <i>cost</a> of labor to the company may well be in excess of $70 per hour but that includes:
contractual and legally required overtime pay, shift premiums and the costs of negotiated benefits such as holidays, vacations, health care, pensions and education and training
statutory costs, which employers are required to pay by law, such as federal contributions for Social Security and Medicare, and state payments to workers’ compensation and unemployment insurance funds
benefit costs of retirees who are no longer on the payroll to name only a few.
The cost of labor is not the wage received. But they want us to believe it. What the frick is wrong with you guys? Class war?
Here is a nice deunking of the $70/hour autoworker myth by Jonathan Cohn at New Republic.
Sorry about that:
Here is a nice deunking of the $70/hour autoworker myth by Jonathan Cohn at New Republic.
$30/yr should be $30/hr. Guess I was thinking about pre-union days.
Barnicle and Matthews always struck me as would be Studs Terkels. Men of the people. Both pretending that they're workin' class guys from the corner bar, where a stool conforms to the contours of their working class butts . Both act as if they know what it's like to punch a clock.
Isn't that O'Reilly's schtick, being the fake working class guys warning the unwashed masses about class warfare on the wealthy?
Anyone else notice something strange about that segment?-- Harris was placed on top of the screen, in the power position, despite the fact that-- gee-- Dems seem to have won the election.
Dems seem to have won the election.
Ah, you see carlile, that's just another myth pushed on us by the lyin' Gawdless lib'rul media--in truth, the Repgnantcons won both houses of Congress and the Presidency, but them-thur Gawdless lib'ruls stole the election...
What's really funny is apparanlty it's not enough to lie about mythical $70 an hour wages, they have to keep hiking it up with each iteration of the tale, $75, $80, etc... Pretty soon they'll have them making more money than Bill Gates and Warren Buffet combined.
Good grief!!
Media Matters is (or could be) an important source for straightening out bad reporting, outright media lies, or any other kind of misinformation.
Unfortunately, it displays itself as a branch of Daily Kos -- a home for irrational haters of anyone remotely committed to the truth that isn't consistent with the left's view of itself.
Autoworker compensation is just such a case.
The claim in the discussion of autoworker compensation is that the average autoworker with any of the big 3 automobile companies COSTS THE CORPORATION $75 PER HOUR! NOBODY (except those reporters who aren't paying attention) has claimed that their hourly compensation is $75/hour!! Sheesh!! When you add on all the benefits, the cost to the companies to fund the employee's retiriemnt plan, the company's portion of FICA taxes, etc., etc. and boil it down to the cost per hour to the company's bottom line, per employee, the answer is the net bottom line cost of each employee is $75/hour. And THAT is the critical number that's put the unionized auto companies in a financial bind, and in a hopeless situation competitively.
If Media matters would first look for misunderstandings of what is being reported, and clear those up before starting one more case of leaping into another tirade, calling everybody liars, you would more closely conform to the charter of this fine web site.