Conservative radio hosts continue to promote discredited claim that Obama has yet to prove he was born in the U.S.
SUMMARY: Radio hosts Brian Sussman, Mark Davis, Lars Larson, Bob Grant, Jim Quinn, and Rose Tennent repeated the discredited claim that President-elect Barack Obama has not produced a valid birth certificate and is not eligible for the presidency because he is not a natural-born citizen. In fact, the Obama campaign posted a copy of Obama's birth certificate on its Fight the Smears website and reportedly provided the original to FactCheck.org, whose staff concluded that it "meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship." A Hawaii Health Department official also reportedly confirmed that the birth certificate Obama's campaign posted is valid.
In recent days, several radio hosts, including Brian Sussman, Mark Davis (filling in for Rush Limbaugh), Lars Larson, Bob Grant, Jim Quinn, and Rose Tennent have promoted the discredited claim that President-elect Barack Obama has not produced a valid birth certificate and is not eligible for the presidency because he is not a natural-born citizen. As Media Matters for America has repeatedly documented, the Obama campaign has posted a copy of Obama's birth certificate on its Fight the Smears website and reportedly provided the original to FactCheck.org, whose staff concluded in an August 21 post that it "meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship." A Hawaii Health Department official also reportedly confirmed to PolitiFact.com that the birth certificiate Obama's campaign posted on the Fight the Smears website is valid, proving he was born in the state of Hawaii.
Further, as Media Matters has also noted, the Hawaii Department of Health released a statement on October 31 by Health Department director Chiyome Fukino, in which Fukino confirmed that "the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
Examples of radio hosts continuing to push the debunked claim about Obama's birth certificate and citizenship include the following:
- Mark Davis: While filling in for Rush Limbaugh on the December 1 edition of Limbaugh's nationally syndicated radio program, Davis spoke with a caller who discussed several lawsuits challenging Obama's eligibility for the presidency on the grounds of what Davis called "the pesky birth certificate issue." Davis said: "One would think that a presentation of the actual birth certificate, which is in a vault in Honolulu somewhere. ... If it could settle this, why not present it? That is a very, very good question."
- Lars Larson: During the December 1 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Larson said: "[A]s to the president-elect's birth certificate, I'm not satisfied yet, either. But I'm not sure we're ever gonna see the proof that he's constitutionally qualified to have run, so we may have to accept the outcome and just figure that we'll fix it on the next election."
- Bob Grant: While filling in for Mark Levin on the November 28 broadcast of Levin's nationally syndicated radio program, Grant discussed a lawsuit filed by Alan Keyes, which alleges that Obama has not proven that he is a natural-born citizen and attempts to bar the California electors from meeting to cast their Electoral College votes. Grant said: "I'm not saying it's true that he's not really a native-born American citizen. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that people like Alan Keyes do believe that because he hasn't been able to produce the valid birth certificate, he is -- he is hiding something. ... Will anything come of this? I don't think so. But it is disturbing that when you say, well, you could end the conjecture by just producing the proof. And the proof is not produced. And then, of course, there are many of us who say, well, it's too late. No, the Constitution's very clear."
Additionally, during the December 1 edition of San Francisco radio station KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Show, guest host Brian Sussman introduced audio of an interview of the Kenyan ambassador to the United States, Peter N.R.O. Ogego, by Mike Clark, Trudi Daniels, and Marc Fellhauer of Detroit radio station WRIF by saying: "So, again, here are these morning show guys, talking to this official from Kenya. And, hmm, this Kenyan official lets something slip out of the bag. Sounds to me like Barack was born in Kenya. Sounds to me like everybody there knows it. Here. You listen to the conversation for yourself."
Sussman then aired the following audio:
CLARK: We want to congratulate you on -- on Barack Obama, our new president, and you must be very proud.
OGEGO: We are.
CLARK: Yes.
OGEGO: We are. We are also proud of the U.S. for having made history as well.
FELLHAUER: Hey, one more quick question. Obama -- President-elect Obama's birthplace over in Kenya, is that gonna be a national spot to go visit, where he was born?
OGEGO: It's already an attraction.
FELLHAUER: Yeah? OK.
OGEGO: His -- his paternal grandmother is still alive, and --.
FELLHAUER: But his birthplace, they'll be -- they'll put up a marker there?
OGEGO: It would depend on the government. It's already well known.
Moments after playing the audio of the Ogego interview, Sussman commented: "Everybody knows it. His -- his maternal grandmother's still alive. It'll be up to the government to decide if a marker needs to be placed there. Now, this government official later -- no, no, no, I was misquoted, I was misquoted. No, we just heard you, sir. He said he was referring to Barack Obama's birth father, and where he was born -- where the dad was born." Indeed, according to a November 26 article on the right-wing website WorldNetDaily.com, Ogego said that Clark and Fellhauer were "circulating misinformation." According to the WorldNetDaily.com article, Ogego said of WRIF: "They asked me about Obama's father, not Obama ... This is common-sense knowledge. Nobody is fooling anybody." The WorldNetDaily.com article also reported that "WRIF's Mike Clark told WND the show never manipulated the audio recording in any way."
Later in the broadcast, Sussman said of Obama's announcement of Sen. Hillary Clinton as Obama's secretary of state: "[M]aybe [Clinton] knows the truth about his citizenship." Sussman later stated: "You just wonder if she knows all of the information that Philip Berg has on Barack, and there was a deal struck in the background. OK, Barack, listen. We're not gonna blow the whistle on your citizenship. In fact, we'll help you keep a lid on all this. You get the nation, I get the world. You take the United States, I get secretary of state, and we're bringing in all my peeps. I mean, one has to wonder, right?" Berg had filed a lawsuit, which alleged that Sen. Barack Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen. His lawsuit was later dismissed and Berg has appealed that decision.
During the November 24 edition of Clear Channel's The War Room with Quinn & Rose, hosts Jim Quinn and Rose Tennent aired audio from the WRIF interview. After airing the audio, Tennent said: "It's already an attraction. It's well known, he says. ... It's well known, except for here." Subsequently, Quinn said of Ogego's comments: "I mean, here's the -- here's the ambassador in Kenya saying that Barack Obama's birthplace in Kenya is already a -- it's already well known, and it's already an attraction. I think you and I should -- maybe we should go do our show from -- from Barack Obama's birthplace."
From the December 1 broadcast of KSFO's The Lee Rodgers Show:
SUSSMAN: OK. There was a radio show back east last week that was able to -- was able to interview a gentleman who is a government official in Kenya. And they were talking to this government official about Barack Obama, and it was -- it was a very pleasant interview. But there's a whippersnapper on this morning show team.
OFFICER VIC (co-host Tom Benner): Uh-oh.
SUSSMAN: He's kind of -- kind of their Officer Vic.
OFFICER VIC: Uh-oh.
SUSSMAN: Who said, I -- I -- basically, saying under his breath, I can't allow this moment to pass. I need to ask this Kenyan official about Barack Obama's place of birth. And he just sort of slips it in during the course of the conversation, and this Kenyan official answers in such a way that -- well, sounds to me like Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Now -- now, keep in mind, before we get to this audio, because it's -- it's really amazing.
OFFICER VIC: Wow.
SUSSMAN: If you were an investigator trying to determine where Barack Obama was born -- OK, let's talk to family members. Well, can't talk to his mom. She's gone. Can't talk to grandma. She's gone. Grandpa, he's gone. This is all on the mother's side of the family. You can talk to Barack's sister -- his younger sister. She has named two different hospitals in Hawaii where he may have been born. She doesn't even know. You go to Kenya to talk to the other side of the family -- his birth father's side of the family -- and lo and behold, there are two relatives who swear they were at the birth -
OFFICER VIC: Well --
SUSSMAN: -- in Kenya. OK, so now you're an investigator. It looks to me like we've got an interesting situation here -- more evidence to say that he was born in Kenya than elsewhere. OK? Now, the Kenyans are not students of our Constitution. They're probably unaware of the fact that we have this little rule that says, no, our presidents have to be born in this country. So, again, here are these morning show guys, talking to this official from Kenya. And, hmm, this Kenyan official lets something slip out of the bag. Sounds to me like Barack was born in Kenya. Sounds to me like everybody there knows it. Here. You listen to the conversation for yourself.
[begin audio clip]
CLARK: We want to congratulate you on -- on Barack Obama, our new president, and you must be very proud.
OGEGO: We are.
CLARK: Yes.
OGEGO: We are. We are also proud of the U.S. for having made history as well.
FELLHAUER: Hey, one more quick question. Obama -- President-elect Obama's birthplace over in Kenya, is that gonna be a national spot to go visit, where he was born?
OGEGO: It's already an attraction.
FELLHAUER: Yeah? OK.
OGEGO: His -- his paternal grandmother is still alive, and --.
FELLHAUER: But his birthplace, they'll be -- they'll put up a marker there?
OGEGO: It would depend on the government. It's already well known.
[end audio clip]
OFFICER VIC: That's pretty slick.
SUSSMAN: OK, it's already --
OFFICER VIC: The way he posed the question.
SUSSMAN: Yeah. Just kind of threw that out there.
OFFICER VIC: Yeah.
SUSSMAN: And the guy bit. And, of course --
OFFICER VIC: It's already -- everybody knows it. It's already a marker there.
SUSSMAN: Everybody knows it. His -- his maternal grandmother's still alive. It'll be up to the government to decide if a marker needs to be placed there. Now, this government official later -- no, no, no, I was misquoted, I was misquoted. No, we just heard you, sir. He said he was referring to Barack Obama's birth father, and where he was born -- where the dad was born.
OFFICER VIC: Right.
SUSSMAN: Did -- now did it sound like that to you?
OFFICER VIC: No, it did not, quite frankly.
[...]
SUSSMAN: Hillary Clinton, secretary of state. That's what we're waiting for him to announce. He's -- Dr. Susan Rice --
OFFICER VIC: Rice.
SUSSMAN: -- is another very, very liberal member of his national security team. I'm looking at Tom Daschle, Eric Holder, Rahm Emanuel. Isn't Bill Richardson somewhere in the mix?
OFFICER VIC: Yes.
SUSSMAN: Yeah. Janet Napolitaniyano or whatever her name is. These are all Clinton retreads, you know, hope and change. I'm hoping there's gonna be some change left in my pocket after the Clintons do me over.
OFFICER VIC: Yes. Here's your hope, keep the change.
SUSSMAN: I just thought -- I thought it's really interesting about all of this, and -- Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, during the primaries, there was no love lost between these two.
OFFICER VIC: No. And she was out there saying he has no experience, he's not qualified.
SUSSMAN: I just wondered, maybe she knows the truth about his citizenship. Because one of her ardent supporters, and a guy who has raised a lot of money for her -- dyed-in-the-wool liberal Democrat, former assistant attorney general of the state of Pennsylvania. And that would be the guy that -- Philip Berg, the gentleman who's filed this lawsuit that's going to be addressed by the Supreme Court later this week regarding Barack Obama's citizenship.
You just wonder if she knows all of the information that Philip Berg has on Barack, and there was a deal struck in the background. OK, Barack, listen. We're not gonna blow the whistle on your citizenship. In fact, we'll help you keep a lid on all this. You get the nation, I get the world. You take the United States, I get secretary of state, and we're bringing in all my peeps. I mean, one has to wonder, right?
OFFICER VIC: Very interesting. Very interesting. Yeah.
SUSSMAN: You just have to wonder. This -- this is not change. This is the Clinton administration coming back at you.
OFFICER VIC: Your mind works in strange, Machiavellian ways.
SUSSMAN: And, of course, Barack Obama says, well, you know, all of these people have experience, and it's the kind of change we need. That's how he spins it.
From the November 24 broadcast of Clear Channel's The War Room with Quinn & Rose:
QUINN: By the way, changing -- switching gears here for a second. I told you about this over the weekend. Somebody sent me this. This is a -- about one minute from a radio show, a morning radio show, on WRIF in Detroit, once known as Rockin' Stereo WRIF. I know, 'cause I hired a guy from there. Anyway, this is just a little piece of -- of what is supposed to be a prank call, OK? You see, this is one of those morning shows where everyone is laughing but nobody knows why. Because -- and the reason is because they can't tell the difference between what's funny and what isn't.
TENNENT: Right.
QUINN: Kind of like here. So -- so anyway, so they place a phone call after Obama gets elected. They place a phone call to Kenya, and they actually end up getting the Kenyan ambassador on the phone. Toward the end of this, tell me if you hear what I hear.
[begin audio clip]
FELLHAUER: How's the national anthem of Kenya? Can we hear a little bit of it? Do you know the national anthem?
OGEGO: Yes, I know the national anthem. It is online. You could Google it.
CLARK : Online googling. Ha ha ha, that's great.
FELLHAUER: You won't share it with us? You won't tell us? Can't you tell us what it is?
OGEGO: It is a national prayer, actually.
CLARK: Oh, it's a prayer.
FELLHAUER: So you don't get to sing it?
[end audio clip]
QUINN: Holy cow, they allow prayer?
TENNENT: Wow.
QUINN: In government? In Kenya?
[begin audio clip]
OGEGO: It's -- it's a prayer. It's easily available online.
CLARK: Yeah, yeah. I understand. You're ducking singing it.
FELLHAUER: You don't want to sing it?
CLARK: And that's -- that's a good move. Yeah. You know what you're doing. Well, listen. We want to congratulate you on -- on Barack Obama, our new president, and you must be very proud.
OGEGO: We are.
CLARK: Yes.
OGEGO: We are. We are also proud of the U.S. for having made history as well.
FELLHAUER: Hey, one more quick question. Obama -- President-elect Obama's birthplace over in Kenya, is that gonna be a national spot to go visit, where he was born?
OGEGO: It's already an attraction.
FELLHAUER: Yeah? OK.
OGEGO: His -- his paternal grandmother is still alive, and --.
FELLHAUER: But his birthplace, they'll be -- they'll put up a marker there?
OGEGO: It would depend on the government. It's already well known.
CLARK: Do you know the -- Barack Obama -- his father's name? Is it Barack Hussein Obama Sr.? Is that true? Do you know?
[end audio clip]
QUINN: Anyway, now --
TENNENT: It's already an attraction. It's well known, he says. Except for here.
QUINN: It's well known his birthplace is already an attraction.
TENNENT: It's well known, except for here.
QUINN: Yeah. Well, I mean -- somebody needs to get in touch. With - 'cause I mean, I've -- you know, I think one of the reasons Media Matters harps on us when we're like, what, number 56 in the country among talk shows?
TENNENT: Yeah.
QUINN: I mean, you -- you pick up Media Matters, and you would think that it was Rush Limbaugh, [Mark] Levin, [Sean] Hannity, [Michael] Savage, and us. Now --
TENNENT: Well that's pretty impressive. I like that.
QUINN: Well, I'm beginning to think, 'cause whenever they criticize -- like the other day, they say, "Quinn trivializes gay marriage." You can't trivialize something that doesn't exist. OK? You can't -- trivalize -- trivialize an oxymoron. Anyway, so one of the things they always say, though, is, "continues to repeat the discredited rumor that Barack Obama was not born here."
Now, we don't do that. We have said -- we have spent so little time on this subject, and every time we've talked about it, we have said, we don't know. We're just waiting to see what --what happens. We're just reporting; we're not really deciding here. And yet, it seems to get in their craw about this. Now remember, Media Matters is run by John Podesta, who is the chief of the transition team for Barack Obama. Could it be that this -- that because we talk about this, that this is one of those things that's really -- that -- that they just want quashed?
TENNENT: To go away?
QUINN: Yeah, they really want this to go away, and this is one of those things that really needles them.
TENNENT: Well, there's a lot of lawsuits out there right now.
QUINN: There's about 17 of them.
TENNENT: And I don't understand why he can't just present it, and let us -- let us be done with it.
QUINN: Yeah, I mean, and I've said often, it's a distraction. It's a pain in the butt. I mean, frankly, I would rather not even deal with it. But, I mean, here's the -- here's the ambassador in Kenya saying that Barack Obama's birthplace in Kenya is already a -- it's already well known, and it's already an attraction. I think you and I should -- maybe we should go do our show from -- from Barack Obama's birthplace.
TENNENT: Well, remember, I wanted to go over there, with [Obama Nation author Jerome] Corsi. I'm glad I didn't.
QUINN: That's true, because they all ended up getting arrested and detained there before they left.
TENNENT: Yeah. I don't need that. My nerves are shot.
From the December 1 broadcast of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show:
CALLER: As we speak, I'm a little concerned about something that hasn't been brought up on any of the media. I am a veteran. All my brothers served. My brother was in Vietnam. I was in during the Vietnam era. Our Constitution's pretty important. It's not just pretty important -- it's extremely important. And there's about four cases that are fixing to go before the Supreme Court. One of them goes today. And it's not Alan Keyes. There's a lot of them that are challenging Obama's --
DAVIS: Yeah.
CALLER: Eligibility, his birth certificate.
DAVIS: The pesky birth certificate issue. Yep.
CALLER: Well, you know, and he could've -- he could've answered that if it was so simple.
DAVIS: Yep.
CALLER: Put one forth. And the reason I know is because I adopted my son --
DAVIS: Sure.
CALLER: -- years ago while I was in the military.
DAVIS: I tell you what I'll do, because with about two and a half minutes, and it'll be involved. First of all, let's examine the ways in which you are totally right. One would think that a presentation of the actual birth certificate, which is in a vault in Honolulu somewhere --
CALLER: Yes.
DAVIS: If it could settle this, why not present it? That is a very, very good question.
CALLER: Well, and I talked to Andy Martin. I actually got him on the phone. And he just -- he was very short, just like I'll be here. And he said, Bobby, he said, I do not know what's in there --
DAVIS: And we never will.
CALLER: -- he says, but we don't know because they won't show us.
DAVIS: Right. And they don't have to because the laws essentially allow for -- for the yanking of a birth certificate by people if, you know, some direct family connection, have some very, very personal regard in this.
CALLER: Well, we have -- we should have standing, though, Mark, because we're citizens and we're requiring --
DAVIS: But that's not what the law says. But that's simply not what the law says. If we want to craft a law that says that if somebody gets to president, and there's a doubt whether his citizenship is -- is all kosher, then we should be -- I think that'd be a pretty good law. But we don't have it.
CALLER: You're probably right there. There's four of them -- Pennsylvania. New Jersey. There's Lee Donofrio. There's Chris Strunk in New York. There's Cort Wrotnowski in Connecticut. I mean, I'm looking at them right now on theobamafile.com.
DAVIS: Can -- can I ask you something? Because with -- with about a minute here, because listen, before the election, and I talked to Phil Berg myself -- I talked to the guy, and he's not a nut. And he has questions, not just about the birth certificate, but about whether Barack Obama's mom logged sufficient time of American residency to have any progeny of hers automatically be citizens. Because, obviously, you know, if he was born in Hawaii, then he's a citizen. Boom. But, you know, did she meet those criteria?
They're all thoroughly valid questions. Now that he has won, the best thing -- the only thing that could happen -- only thing -- if he is somehow retroactively found unfit to -- to have won, you get President Joe Biden. So like, you know, OK.
CALLER: Well, it isn't the matter of that. It's the matter of us circumventing the Constitution.
DAVIS: OK.
CALLER: If we break the law on one, where do we stop?
DAVIS: You know, and that's -- and that's very valid. Because, OK, we get President Joe Biden. Which may be better or may be worse, but --
CALLER: Yeah. I'm not -- it doesn't matter.
DAVIS: -- at least we will have stuck up for making somebody. Now the Alan Keyes thing in California -- and Alan is a very interesting man -- dog -- nothing if not dogged -- is essentially trying to get California's electors from casting their ballots for -- for Barack Obama until it comes out. Likelihood of any of this succeeding is extremely close to zero. It -- so that's what everybody's waiting for is to see if that changes. Be right back.
From the December 1 broadcast of Westwood One's The Lars Larson Show:
LARSON: And yes, as to the president-elect's birth certificate, I'm not satisfied yet, either. But I'm not sure we're ever gonna see the proof that he's constitutionally qualified to have run, so we may have to accept the outcome and just figure that we'll fix it on the next election.
From the November 28 broadcast of ABC Networks' The Mark Levin Show:
GRANT: But there is a nagging question, and I don't bring it up in order to enter into a -- an on-the-air search. That would be pointless, and I think it might be looked upon by some people as being below the belt. But what I'm referring to is what Dr. Alan Keyes is doing. Dr. Keyes, Alan Keyes -- I met him many years ago when he was the -- the head of Citizens Against Government Waste -- and I had the privilege of doing the broadcast from his office in the nation's capital. Alan Keyes, who had been appointed to an ambassadorship -- he had a under secretary of the state role in the Reagan administration. But Alan Keyes ran against Barack Obama, the state of Illinois, conducted this ridiculous campaign -- a ridiculous campaign -- and made Barack Obama a sure winner back in that election of 2004.
But what is Alan Keyes doing now? He is claiming that Barack Obama has not proven his citizenship, and that we are in danger of unmasking a person who does not pass constitutional muster to be the president of the United States. I know it seems unthinkable, but stop and think about all the unthinkable things that have happened in your lifetime and in mine. Things that we thought were unthinkable, but they happened.
I'm not saying it's true that he's not really a native-born American citizen. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that people like Alan Keyes do believe that because he hasn't been able to produce the valid birth certificate, he is -- he is hiding something. That's what he claims, and they filed another court case out in California. Why California? Because Alan Keyes was an elector out there and does have what they call "standing."
Will anything come of this? I don't think so. But it is disturbing that when you say, well, you could end the conjecture by just producing the proof. And the proof is not produced. And then, of course, there are many of us who say, well, it's too late. No, the Constitution's very clear. I just thought I'd -- I'd bring that up, not to spoil your weekend, but to make you think about all the possibilities there are out there.
And one of the most vexing questions is not the citizenship of the 44th president. To me, it's what is happening to Western culture. I'm thinking about the United Kingdom. I'm thinking about the London that I have visited many times and admired, and how it has changed. Going down to the lobby of the hotel -- and I love to peruse newspapers. I'm looking at the newspapers, and it's written in Arabic, every single one.
Therefore, I thought about that when I read the report of what was going on in Southwest India, and someone had made the report that citizens of the United Kingdom, British citizens, were involved. They were Muslims who had moved or were born in England, and living there they obviously did not adopt Western ways, or British grace, British courtesy, or British customs, but hated their host country and determined to cause it damage.
Obama is an American. I'm more interested in these talkers proving they are not anti-American, rhetorical terrorists.
One could argue that Obama is MORE qualified to be President than John McCain (yeah, obvious, I know), because Obama was actually born in one of the 50 United States and McCain was not.
Sure it was not one of the 57 he had visited during his campaign?
In fact, the Obama campaign posted a copy of Obama's birth certificate on its Fight the Smears website and reportedly provided the original to FactCheck.org, whose staff concluded that it "meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship." Do not understand why he just will not let folks besides Factcheck.org look at it? Also, I would like to know how he was able to get into some of the other countries he visited as a youth with his U.S. Passport, if they would not allow U.S. Citizens in those countries?
Other folks? Like maybe Lars Larsen or Rush Limbaugh? Come on, The state of Hawaii has already looked at it. Geez, you guys love to beat a dead horse.
Which countries do you mean?
Obama in his book wrote the following "I traveled to Pakistan in 1981 with my Pakistan friends." Also writhes "In 1981, I went to Indonesia on my way to Pakistan" FYI Pakistan was a no travel zone in 1981 for American Citizen. So what passport did he use to enter the country?
Do you have evidence that Pakistan was a 'no travel zone' for American citizens in 1981? Are you sure it wasn't just advised against, and not completely forbidden?
No, he doesn't, because it wasn't.
Easy, Yes I do, look at the link below.
no, you don't, that had nothing to do with what you claimed it did.
These three pages tell you the restrictions, and the third pages list countries.
http://books.google.com/books?id=KJ0d0RECM3sC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=Pakistan+Travel+Restrictions+1981&source=web&ots=HIbD8l_VS6&sig=gKHWLl6DKL40UQ3xx7tZ1vtXrw4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result
Starting to think you all have not idea how to research information. I again see it as you want proof and I can provide. I just find this all very interesting.
I don't see it. I honestly read your link, and I don't see where it says that the U.S. restricts its citizens from traveling to Pakistan. Can you paste the passage where it says this?
Kyle. please take the time to read, not everything can be handed to you.
Oh there it is. I see it now. How could I have been so blind?
So..... now that I am convinced, how can I help fight against this evil foreigner? Should I go buy a gun and go all vigilante, or should I bide my time until the 'resistance' is fully organized and ready to act?
Interesting how you accuse others of not reading; evidently you didn't do so yourself.
The restriction on travel into/out of Pakistan is to be free, according to the Pakistani Constitution, and supported by Zia. The words were something like, ...a person should be free to travel into and out of Pakistan unless the government of Pakistan has reason to hold said person.
This is from your link, dude. Damn...
Keep reading, it is there.
Well, obviously you can see it. Why don't you just, real quick, copy and paste it here? Just use Ctrl+C to copy, and Ctrl+V to paste, and once it's posted, we will all admit that we were wrong.
Wouldn't you just love it if we all had to come back here and admit our error? Wouldn't that just make you so happy?
You can make it happen. Just copy and paste.
It states ""Order of 1981 promulgated by General Aiz ul-Haq suspended the guarantees of "liberty"set forth in Pakistan's 1973 constitution. Labore High Court had held that "traveling abroad is a part of the personal liberty of a citizens and in the absence of a law imposing reasonable restrictions, he has a right to leave the country and re-enter it” So General Aiz suspended free travel. "Even more disturbing is that inclusion of a religious test in Pakistani passport application, which requires that all who claim to be Muslims make a declaration renouncing the belief of the Ahmadiyya sec Indeed, any question regarding an applications religion would seem to be unjustifiable in the context of a entering or leaving a country." No it does not say, the US can come in out and out, but read in between the lines.
So, no.
Cool, that's what I thought!
I've got three fingers up, index, middle, and ring. Read between the lines.
Wow - just astounding.
So what you are posting seems to refer to Pakistans citizens not visitors. That doesn't support your contention in any way. Or perhaps you are referring to the religous test mentioned and that somehow because Obama is a secret muslim he was allowed to enter and leave freely?
Nope - I still don't see what your "point" is.
"read in between the lines"? you can read under, over, and beneath the lines, and nowhere does it say travel by americans was restricted. but i know what happened. you saw that on some silly ass web site, thought it meant something and it came out flatter than a pancake here.
"Read between the lines" - No, go read a history book. Gullibilty is one thing, willful ignorance is something else.
In 1981 Pakistan was a dodgy place because Zia had just recently offed Bhutto, I'll grant you that, and it probably had a number of State Department warnings against non-essential travel, but that does not mean that Americans could not travel there. I mean, Haiti's a no travel zone in the way that you're using it - not like Cuba (where, incidentally, you can go if you just fly in from Belize and ask them not to stamp your passport). 1981 Pakistan may have been a bad vacation spot, but you could go there.
1981 Pakistan may have been a bad vacation spot
Not for a secret Muslim terrorist :)
OK, you have a point there - after all, he must have had this plan to usurp our government in his head even back then.
Have you physically looked at the current President's birth certificate? Is he a US Citizen?
Bull$h!t
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
The only question is why isn't everyone asking why Obama won't open his records. Specifically his birth record? No one else thinks he is trying to hide something, he is spending hundreds of thousands defending himself in these lawsuits!
What records did previous Presidents 'open' that Obama is not?
"he is spending hundreds of thousands defending himself in these lawsuits!"
no he isn't. i doubt he's spent more than a nomina amount on legal fees associated with these suits, just enough to request a summary motion for dismissal.
any idiot can file a lawsuit, for just about anything. that suit actually going beyond the initial filing is quite another issue. most never make it beyond that stage, as none of these suits will. they were filed for publicity purposes, not because it was truly believed they had the proverbial snowball's chance of actually going anywhere.
It's their Hail Mary play. If somehow they can prove Obama isn't a US citizen by birth, then...
Joe Biden would be POTUS.
Yet another swing-and-miss for GOP.
I just find all of this very interesting? I also would like to know how he filled for Finanical Aid when he entered college? How did he list himself?
I would like to know why you insist on ending all of your sentences with a question mark?
Kyle it is very simple, they are questions. When you ask a qusetion, you end the sentence with a question mark.
I find your response very interesting?
Your a quick study, I feel like I have accomplished something rewarding today. I now can go home.
I now can go home.
Promise?
Well you certainly did not prove Obama wasn't born in this country. Thus you failed baby!
Are you posting while at work? What does your boss think of that?
My drill instructor once told me there is no such thing as a stupid question. Apparently he was wrong.
We must have had the same drill instructor.
They will continue this and much more in an effort to delegitimize Obama's presidency because they know they can't win the debate of ideas, they know most people agree with liberal solutions. So they appeal to nativism, cultural resentment, bigotry and intolerance. They're pathetic losers, whining incessantly from their closed radio market cocoons.
I'm waiting for a US History textbook in several years to label him (Obama) as an illegitimate US President.
It might happen, given the state of our government school system
Is there any factual basis to make such a claim?
Why do you do that crap? Use the wingnut language of Limbaugh?
Speaking of Limbaugh, have you seen him lately ? He is huge. Noticed Dick Morris, and Hannity are also sarting to pack a few. Must be goof food over there at FOX.
"...Goof food..." at Fox?
Just goes to prove the old adage "You are what you eat."
And "You were what you crap."
Some overeaters tend to binge when they're depressed. Possibly a result of the recent election?
Thanks, Bill. I just realized how I packed on a few extra pounds during a few of the Clinton years. ;>)
You might also point that there were announcements printed in Hawaii newspapers at the time of Obama's birth.
So, in order for the conspiracy to be true, someone knew in 1961 that a guy born in Kenya would be a candidate for President of the United States almost 50 years later and had the foresight to print false birth announcements. Or maybe time travel IS possible, and Obama went from 2007 back to 1961 and placed the ads himself.
And while I think of it, if Clinton knew the "real" story of Obama's Kenyan birth, wouldn't she have used it before the primaries to keep him out of the race? Why would she have waited until after the election and used this information to extract a consolation prize?
Idiots.
The Hawaii Department of Health has already confirmed the validity of his birth certificate.
ansd so have 60 million plus voters.
Idiots.
You have the conspiracy wrong. It holds that the boy was born in Kenya but his mother smuggled him onboard an airline (as a newborn) and then into a hospital in Hawaii so he could get a "certificate of live birth" and be president someday.
Yes, yes, I get it now. How did I not see it? His mother knew in 1961 that the son of a black man from Africa and a white woman from Kansas was going to be a viable candidate for President 47 years later. She then snuck her baby onto a plane in Kenya, smuggled him to Hawaii, registered his birth, and took out ads in the paper announcing it.
After that, Obama's mother decided in the 1970s that an even better way to ensure that her Kenyan-born son could become President was to move to Indonesia and marry a Muslim! And it WORKED! God what a visionary!
Brian Sussman, Mark Davis, Lars Larson, Bob Grant, Jim Quinn, and Rose Tennent refuse to support our democratically elected president in a time of war because....
They are all traitors in my book. There is a difference between being a dissenter and another Tokyo Rose.
You don't have to support Obama, but if you're not going to contribute to the rebuilding of this nation, sit down and STFU.
Okay, you guys win. I'll concede that he wasn't native born.
Now, what's your next step?
LOL.
Exactly. Even if stuff like this IS true, there's no thinking beyond the faux outrage.
Where are all those yahoos who were here a week or so before the election screaming and hollering about this issue? Have they given up the fight? Or, have they they all just moved on to the bottom of another bridge? And what do allthese people think about McCain being 'voted in' as a citizen? Do they find that fishy or what?
I think the jingly-keys of the mystery of the birth certificate have been replaced by the sparkly toy called the $70/hr. auto worker and the shiny crib-mobile of the outrageous cabinet picks..
I would have used "bell filled balls", butDraftedin68 has that copyrighted.
Quibble: It's not the wingnuts who are objecting to the cabinet picks. In fact, the GOPpers on the whole seem fine with them. It's people to Obama's left, who are upset at the absence of a single clearly progressive nominee.
Right, Larry-E, I just meant that the cabinet picks have been a real goldmine for the talkers. They get to say "Clinton", and point out the make-believe hypocrisy of Obama's moderate choices beig at odds with the radical socialist boogeyman they've been building for the whole campaign.
I just like to stir the pot, more fun to see you all get worked up, just cracks me up.
Then why are you so worked up? Is it the OUTRAGE?
You were obviously cracked up long before your first post.
Please there is not Outrage, I have not used that term, and everything I have posted to these subjects are mere facts. I have not typed in all Caps to indicated that I have anger. I like to ask questions, post information related to those questions. I have a degree in Journalism, but unlike the press today, they do not know how to do their job. They do not dig, or find facts they only use the AP to help them write their stories. Everyday newspapers are either going out of business or lying off employees. If they would put out a product that provided the news with facts and not commentary they would be successful. Next time you read a paper, look at home many of the stories are from the AP wire or from another paper.
I agree, you are not like most of the journalists in the press today. Most of them were required to learn spelling, punctuation, and grammar before earning their degrees.
Kyle you have come a long way today. When we started you were not even sure how to use a question mark, and now. WOW! You may go home now, but I am sure you’re their now. Let me guess unemployed, waiting for handouts? (That is a question see the question mark?)
You got me their. How could you tell that I was unemployed? Was it my inability to distinguish between the words there and their?
OK, now I get to guess who you are...
Andy Martin?
Alan Keyes?
Michael Savage?
Another journalist who doesn't know the difference between 'there', 'they're' and 'their'.
Another idiot with a pencil and a keyboard.
I'm just happy it turns out that MarkBFoot was just stirring the pot to crack himself up. Otherwise,he'd seem like some loser who tries to pass off half-baked conspiracy theories that he's bought into because of his own poor reading comprehension , then says he was just joking when he figures out he's been suckered. And that would be sad.
He must have a dirty keyboard typing with his pencil.
With all due respect, your writings seem to scream that you do not actually have a degree in journalism.
What Obama has produced is a certification of life birth given to babies who are born abroad. Hawaii officials have not confirmed Obama has been born in Hawaii, only that they possess a birth certificate. Many believe that birth certificate to be a Kenyan Birth Certificate which is why Obama has refused to realease it.
Citations, please - or are you just channeling Levin?
Your theory makes a lot of sense.
How many other Kenyan birth certificates do the 'possess' in Hawaii?
He did release it, y'all just don't like the source he released it to.
Bull$h!t.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
Where are you getting this?
I knew this MMFA post would draw the bitter conspiracy-theorists out of the woodwork!
I know it's a favorite topic for them, but seriously, how do they explain how it got this far? Did no one on the Clinton campaign see this problem? If they could have taken him out on a technicality, wouldn't they have done it? And have the RNC, the McCain campaign and Sean Hannity all been so lax in their duties that they have let a damn furriner be elected President of Real America? How could this happen? Who is minding the citizenship store anyway?
Tippy, unlike yourself, UtahBill took the time to look up facts. Have you not read Obama's books, he talk about travels, his parents, his ideas. All you have to do then is a bit of research, look beyond the information and investigate things that were happening in the world at the time. Tippy, you may learn a few thing but turning off your T.V. and not reading you local rag.
Mark-
Looking up facts is only part of research. The main goal of research is to confirm/deny the supposed facts. This appears to be where you have failed.
Kyle, if you can show were any of my documented information was wrong please document the facts they say differ. Not the sarcasm or poking fun part that would be too easy, cause I am sure you have a job. I have put up facts all day today, which give detailed information. If you can show that I am wrong, I will admit it, no problem. We learn from our faults. Again, I am not say that Obama is not a citizen, I am just putting up information that has been brought up, and I find this all very interesting.
The only 'documented' information you've provided wasn't wrong, it was just irrelevant. You still haven't shown clearly that the U.S. banned travel to Pakistan in 1981, you just provided a link to some lengthy international law paper (not U.S. law)
In summary, you're not wrong, you're just not very bright.
You called tippy a local rag. What an odd nickname.
Turning off my TV and not reading my local rag? How about ignoring the a$$hat illiterate conspiracy nut bloggers and doing actual research into this country's history of relations with Pakistan? You can start with the State Department's own website. In 1981 I was studying US foreign policy in college. The State Dept had travel warnings posted about Pakistan, not a travel ban. And as for your other post, it just dealt with the Pakistani government's efforts to stop the brain drain from its country - it had nothing to do with American travel to Pakistan. Research before you lecture.
Bull$h!t
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
"look beyond the information" - is that what your term for inventing fake facts out of thin air? You are the one who needs to do some research. You are a seriously uninformed individual.
OK OK OK...we get it already. You caught us. Obama is illegitimate as president. We may as well swear in Biden, and Pelosi as his VP.
I'm sure you CONS would love it then, eh?
Nah, what they really want is another election. Then they could pick some other washed up has been with a ditzy wind tunnel running mate to try to sell the country.
Bull$h!t
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
The President of the United States should always be respected. - caseysprings
Why?
These people dedicate their lives to serve America. They deserve respect.
Riiight! Like Nixon's dedication to serve the people? W's?
So Former President Clinton should not have said this in April 1994?
"When he became President, he took on challenges here at home on matters from cancer research to environmental protection, putting the power of the federal government where Republicans and Democrats had neglected to put it in the past; in foreign policy. He came to the presidency at a time in our history when Americans were tempted to say we had had enough of the world. Instead, he knew we had to reach out to old friends and old enemies alike. He would not allow America to quit the world. "
This is in regard to Nixon
Nixon was given the respect he deserved. And that was more than the respect he showed America.
People tend to say nice things about the deceased in eulogies.
Your original statement had nothing to with Nixon or Clinton.
you said "The President of the United States should always be respected."
One of your responses was "These people dedicate their lives to serve America". If so, why was Clinton impeached?
My turn to ask, why should I always respect a title?
These people dedicate their lives to serve America. - casey springs
Wow - you actually believe that? Reminds me of folks who insist any person who is wealthy owes it all to their very hard work.
The lure of great power does not attract only those with integrity. Besides, even if someone has good intentions, that doesn't mean their behavior is respectable. You can do a lot of damage while thinking you're doing good, and that doesn't deserve any credit at all.
Good question. Can US Presidents be impeached respectfully?
And isn't saying that Obama deserves the same amount of respect as W. pretty damned disrespectful towards Obama?
No considering the likes of Hannity, Rush , Levin have been preaching for 8 years that we should "respect" the President.
The President of the United States should always be respected. - caseysprings
Why?
Because (in most cases) he was elected by a sort-of democratic process by your fellow citizens and neighbors. You should respect their choice even if you disagree. To do otherwise disrespects the democatic process.
democatic process. Yeah there's the problem.
:-)
I'm sorry, but to conflate the process with the person that comes out on top just doesn't make sense to me. I always thought respect was earned. Just because someone wins a type of popularity contest does not automatically grant them my respect.
The office deserves respect. The occupant of the office earns respect.
Or, in W's case, doesn't.
I think that's pretty much where I stand - although I have to admit, I don't know how one can separate the office and the holder of office.
Easy, OB.
We respect the office of the Presidency as part of the Executive Branch of our government, which is based on the shared beauty of the Constitution. I respect the office of the Presidency in it's function in our government.
The guy who wins the popularity contest (as someone above so aptly put it!) needs to earn the respect after he has gained office. Obama has my respect as a human being. He will have my respect as the President once he gets his rear in gear and initiates the changes we need in this country (which, thankfully, he has already begin).
"...he has already begun".
"We" is that the royal we?
Anyway, I stated I agreed with Easy.., just tried to point out it's not easy to differentiate between the office and the holder of the office. So I'm not sure why you started with "easy" but there it is.
And you're welcome for the "popularity contest" bit - that was me =>
Anyway, I stated I agreed with Easy.., just tried to point out it's not easy to differentiate between the office and the holder of the office. So I'm not sure why you started with "easy" but there it is.
I don't think I was very clear - I think we are all on the same page re; respct for the office vs. respect for the office holder.
Me write pretty one day...
Gore got my respect in 2000 since he won the popularity contest.
The President of the United States should be respected when he shows respect for the constitution.
#1) One cannot assume a C.O.L.B. carries the same information as a Certified Birth Certificate from a signed copy of an original "Vault Copy" just because Obama's organization says so.
#2) The C.O.L.B. you reference in your statement, saying this issue has officially and repeatedly been debunked based on the counterfeit computer generated image shown on the website http://fightthesmears.com is erroneous and false. When the bogus document posted on the referenced website is compared to a properly issued official document from the state of Hawaii, there is no resemblance whatsoever, therefore it is fraudulent.
If you want to make such false statements, that's your prerogative, however if you want to enjoy any credibility or be given credence as a legitimate source of factual information, you need to do your research and due diligence on such technical matters before blurting such drivel. The media space used and effort to read same is totally wasted time and effort.
[rwb - Houston, TX]
Some years ago people could establish a new identity by researching records of babies born about the same time they were but died a few days or weeks later. These people would then obtain a copy of the Birth Certificate and use it to craft a new identity - now worrying about the real person objecting because that poor child was long dead.
To combat this fraud, jurisdictions stopped providing copies of birth certificates to anyone except - basically - the person in question. The State of Hawaii rules are clearly posted on their website.
It's obvious this is a non-issue. However, I'm all for the right wingnutz to waste their time investigating it to the nth degree. Keeps them out of mischief and away from the adults who are trying to get some real work done here.
I think I saw that new identity scheme used on an episode of The Rockford Files.
You're right about this being a benign diversion for the nutty fringe. Have you seen any of the "analysis" sites? Many, many wasted man-hours.
Call me crazy, but if you're going to try to pass off a fake birth certificate or dollar bill or Ming vase as a legitimate article, aren't you going to make the fake look real? Otherwise, why produce the fake in the first place?
Bull$h!t.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
Well, we know you're level-headed, you're drooling out of both sides of your mouth.
This birth certificate thing is ridiculous. Obama's mother was unquestionably a US citizen. That makes Obama a citizen regardless of where he was born, with all the rights pertaining, which includes eligibility to be President. Where do the wingnuts think there going with this?
They simply would not be doing this to a white dude.
Where do the wingnuts think there going with this?
It's not the destination that matters to them...it's the journey. ;>)
Dave, you are wrong, his mother was a citizne, but not his father. The two paragraphs should help you. Again, the Obama thing is not going to keep him from President, but know the law. There should be some Vetting of all candidates in the future to prevent this even being a subject. Any person that runs for the office of President should be Vetted, much like any person that goes through a Top Secret Vetting.
All persons born in the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of foreign diplomats) are citizens under the Fourteenth Amendment. Persons born in the United States, and persons born on foreign soil to two U.S. parents, are born American citizens and are classified as citizens at birth under 8 U.S.C. § 1401.
The United States Constitution requires that Presidents (and Vice Presidents) of the United States be natural born citizens of the United States. While it is undisputed that people born in the US are qualified to hold the office of President, and that naturalized U.S. citizens are disqualified from holding that office, it is disputed whether people born to US-citizen parents outside the United states are natural born citizens or not.[1]
How are we supposed to believe that people are not vetted by the government when running for office? In all of the bureaucracy, there's not a couple of poeple who look into this sort of thing?
Also, why on earth would Bush have not jumped on this prior to the election, if there was something there?
No, believe it or not there is not a single department agency that vets the candidates for President to see if they are eligible, matter of fact there was a bill that was introduced back in2004,
Feb 25 2004 S. 2128 [108th]: Natural Born Citizen ActA bill to define the term "natural born Citizen" as used in the Constitution of the United States to establish eligibility for the Office of President.
This bill never became law. This bill was proposed in a previous session of Congress. Sessions of Congress last two years, and at the end of each session all proposed bills and resolutions that haven't passed are cleared from the books.Like I have said before, I have found all this talk interesting.
So a 33-year old could become President if they had a really good fake I.D.? There must be some way of enforcing the Constitution, if a genuine concern comes to light.
Good question there Brabantio, but a real birth certificate would keep that from happening.
So if there's a genuine concern here, why hasn't some legal authority looked into it? It's still a Republican administration, remember.
Like I said before, I have no idea but I do think we need an agency to Vet all possible candidates that apply to run for President. There are many individual that have made claims, and some are being investigated.
Yes, this is all very interesting. I think you should travel to Kenya to find out the truth. When you get there, ask for 'Ted', he'll be waiting there with your limousine. Just present these documents when you get to the Kenyan airport, they contain proof that Obama was born there:
http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/52/96/frameset.html
Make sure you read the whole thing. The evidence is in there, I swear.
a lot of people have been taken in by the argument that the evidence is contained in that document...actually you have to dig a little deeper...it is really found here. However this is the decadent English translation. First he will need to learn Vedic Sanskrit so that it can be read in the language in which it was composed. It will mean that he will have to stop listening to Hannity and Limbaugh for a few years--say forty. ut would that really be such a bad thing?
Maybe we'll be getting a January surprise. Bush comes out before the inauguration and says, "Obama isn't qualified to be President because he wasn't born here, so I'll be staying on."
Here is the fascinating part about Sen. McCain's Panama Canal Zone birth. He was born on a military base. The Bush Administration has claimed Gitmo is not US soil and therefore not subject to US laws. Wouldn't that same contention be true for the Panama Canal Military Base where Sen. McCain was born?
Actually, Mark, according to your own link there are several circumstances where one citizen parent is enough. Look at subsection (g) in particular.
This is total garbage. It does not even resemble the actual law. Where are all these wingnut postings coming from?
Tippy, What Actual Law are you speaking
The 14th Amendment, of course. You only need to be born on US soil to persons who are not in the foreign service of another country to be a natural born citizen.
Bull$h!t
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
Here I go again, wondering about the little things:
Just what is funny about that? What is funny about someone in Kenya talking about doing an online search?
Or is this another case of "some questions need only be asked?"
President-Elect Obama is an American. It's been proven over and over again. Brian Sussman, Mark Davis, Lars Larson, Bob Grant, Jim Quinn, and Rose Tennent are the ones who are un-American. Enough is enough.
Did Jesus have a birth certificate? And, if so, who was listed as his father? Just wondering... ;>)
Irony, man you are so funny. I saw Jesus Christ B.C. also on Fact Check. His father said GOD. Unlike Obama's.
IRONY, how do we know Jesus was Jewish? He went into his father's business. He didn't leave home until he was thirty. He thought his mother was a virgin and she thought he was God.
The Summary is incorrect when it states: "In fact, the Obama campaign posted a copy of Obama's birth certificate on its Fight the Smears Website ...". What Obama's campaign posted was a Certification of Live Birth. The title of which can be seen printed at the top of the image. A Certification of Live Birth is NOT a Birth Certifcate nor is it a Certificate of Live Birth.
OK, but don't you think the Clintons would have picked up that issue and run with it if there was anything to it? How could they, and the RNC, have let this happen and left it up to the likes of fringe bloggers to SAVE THE NATION?
Well, the woman in charge of the birth CERTIFICATES would disagree with you:
...Citing her statutory authority to oversee and maintain Hawaii’s vital records, Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
“No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii,” Fukino added.
Those are quote marks around her statement. Fukino doesn't say "certification of live birth." She says "birth certificate."
The article also points out that Hawaii's governor is a Republican who supported McCain. If there was any validity to this birth certificate story at all, don't you think Governor Lingle would have done something with it to aid McCain?
Now I know the conspiracy theorist in you will continue to argue, but I think that's game, set and match.
It's remarkable. Clinton was impeached for an affair. Gore's presidency was stolen, and his supporters told to "get over it". Kerry was smeared relentlessly, with no consideration for his status as a veteran which is all but sainthood when talking about Republicans who hold that title. But here, the Democrat who threatened Republican power was supposedly ineligible for the job. He was legally forbidden from taking office, and Lingle didn't help her candidate. McCain, who ran one of the most underhanded campaigns in modern politics, didn't bring it up. Bush, who surely would like to see Republicans continue to hold the Executive branch, didn't order his Justice Department to do anything about it. They have a perfectly justifiable reason to literally disqualify their opponent, and nobody steps up to the plate.
In this world of cutthroat politics, it's really just not imaginable.
Impeached for an affair?---uh-uh---For lying under oath! Gore's presidency stolen?---The votes were counted and the constitution still stands! John Kerry was proven to be a liar by a Texas oil man who offered him $1 million for any evidence refuting the "swiftboat" accusations---to date, I believe Kerry still has yet to collect!(sainthood,pleeeeeze)
It's not perjury if the testimony is irrelevant, so it's not an impeachable offense.
You can't trust Bush's employee to act properly, and she didn't. Gore won the recounts of Florida.
Anyone could offer money for something. If they refuse to pay, it does not prove the standards were not actually met. You're using the actions of someone who clearly has a determined point of view as an objective indicator.
Who would make the determination of what constituted 'evidence' refuting the Swiftboat accusations?
Has anyone proved that ALL of those accusations were true?
Repeating something over and over on Hannity, Limbaugh and O'Reilly does NOT constitute proof.
The fact that Kerry hasn't sued these folks for defamation doesn't prove anything either. As a public figure Kerry would have almost no chance of winning such a suit.
Has anyone noted here that J.Corsi who was involved in the swiftboat issue is now pushing THIS load of dung?
Irrelevant? He(Clinton) was asked if he had improper contact with a whitehouse intern and he testified he had not. He perjured himself which is an impeachable offense! Mr. Gore did NOT win the recount in Florida otherwise he would have been a ONE term president(I couldn't help it). I believe it was T. Boone Pickens who made the offer to Mr. Kerry and you know as well as I that if Mr. Kerry had complied with the "bet" standard and Mr. Pickens had reniged(?), the 6 o'clock news would have been ALL over that one and Keith Olbermann would have enough hate fodder for two years!
It's irrelevant to sexual harrassment, because infidelity is not necessarily predatory behavior. If you lie about your income when being tried for shoplifting, it's not perjury because the answer has no effect on the matter at hand.
Gore won the recount. The recount was not the basis for the decision because the previous count was certified by Bush's employee, Katherine Harris.
Do military records contradict Kerry's side? If not, what more proof of anything is needed? At best it's one person's word against another's, and I defy you to explain what sort of proof could possibly be offered in that situation.
You keep saying the same thing but you cannot explain how: a) if it was not perjury why was he impeached(impeachment requires a percentage of congress which DEMOCRATS themselves provided). b) Each and every count of the ballots declared Bush the winner!!! There was NO recount revealing Gore the winner, EVER! c) Military records INDEED rebuff Kerry's claims! One of his "injuries" was a sliver in his index finger requiring NO medical attention yet Kerry insisted the records show injury crediting him with a purple heart! Of the 4 purple hearts, NONE were severe enough for hospitalization, surgery or ANY overt attention. He bears NO scars or lingering effects of any of his "wounds". Sen. Kerry is a FRAUD!
The impeachment was unsuccessful, so the charge was dismissed. You are saying that it's impossible to bring charges against someone unless they're guilty, which is clearly idiotic. As for the suggestion that she was a victim, that is quite disputable. Has she ever claimed she was seduced or intimidated into anything? My understanding is that she made every effort to get near Clinton, because she had a crush on him.
You have no idea what you are talking about regarding the recount.
Where are you getting that story from? He got three purple hearts, none of which involve his index finger. The shrapnel he took in his arm and leg certainly required some attention. Are you trying to challenge the notion that Kerry was smeared while forwarding a phony story about Kerry? That would be quite amusing.
That is quite a tap dance! Mr. Clinton, indeed, had a history of preditory behaviour and since ms. Lewinski was a young intern she had the right to assume the president of the united states would NOT have ANY improper contact with her! He was in charge, not her!
The Bush v Gore election was a mess. What the Supremes did was a travesty.
When they FINALLY got around to ruling they said it was too late to get a full recount done by the deadline so...
The most disgusting thing about the ruling though is that (for what I believe is the FIRST TIME in history) they declared that their ruling could NOT be used as a precedent.
First, Fukino in her letter in no way referenced the image posted on Obama's Website. As such Fukino's letter provides no evidence that links the posted image to the document Fukino states she has seen.
Second, Fukino never says in her letter what is actually on the document she has "personally seen and verified". Fukino never even says the birth certifcate is Hawaian. Let alone whether the document has any details like Hospital, Physican, Single/Multiple Birth, Parents Signatures, Mother/Father's Ocupation.
Third, a person has to assume that Fukino knows the difference between a "Birth Certificate" and "Certification of Live Birth". Which is questionable, since few people seem to including Obama and his campaign staff, along with all those that keep calling the posted image a "Birth Certifcate".
Now if Fukino has actually seen Obama's original "birth certificate" (therefore it exists); Why is Obama still refusing to release the document?
Fukino doesn't need to reference the image posted on Obama's website. She said that she's seen the original birth certificate on record. If he was born in Kenya, how on earth would the Hawaii department of health have the original birth certificate on record?
Bull$h!t.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
Bull$h!t.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
Ex-weatherman Sussman always seems to refer to him as "Barack." Not Senator or Mister or now, of course, President-elect. It's always "Barack" with him...
And he always refers to the current occupant of the White House as "George," doesn't he?
Okay, so, if you believe this birth certificate stuff, you must also believe that the resources and money of the Democratic party were so wasted and its management so incompetent, that they could not certify this simple matter before offically electing him the party's nominee? That's ridiculous, regardless of your political affiliations.
Exactly, kyo. That's just the point where the wheels fall off the conspiracy theory bus. You notice that none of them have a response to inquiry as to how the most important elected position in the world could have fallen into the hands of a legally unqualified person without anyone noticing except for Jerome Corsi and a few other tinfoil hat bloggers. It's like the plot of a very ill-conceived B movie.
This is, without a doubt, one of the nuttiest topics of the campaign (which is OVER, is it not?). I guess they will bring it up again when Obama runs for a second term. My birth certificate says I was born in Zwolle, Louisiana. There is a Zwolle in Belgium. Would that hurt ME if I decided to seek office?
Yes, because the wingnuts know that Belgium is in Russia, and that makes you a Communist.
Right...Sarah Palin can see Belgium from her kitchen window. In fact, she can see the whole CONTINENT of Russia. ;>)
Or was that Tina Fey that said that?
You might refuse to consider the comments, EW, but if you refuse to read them, you're missing out on some Grade A wingnutty entertainment. I can't believe they're still clinging to this one.Even the guy who admitted he wasn't serious and was "stirring the pot" seems unable to let go.
I mean, he seems unable to let go?
Oh I read them. Thats when the question of their citizenship crept out of my unconcious.
I've read on too many ologies, paleon, archae, bio, anthro, and genetics to find a lot of humor in this.
The second part of my post was for the I.D. folks. I know their arround here somewhere, just where eludes me right now.
I agree. Have any of the above mentioned "talking heads" proved they are American citizens and thereby allowed to use American air waves to spread their messages? How, for example, can one be called a "Great American" if we don't know for a fact they were born on US soil or of US citizens (parents)? Enquiring minds want to know!
Marky my man.....
Lay off the Ludes little brother; they are really messing with your head....
Medved and O'Reilly are lucid? Maybe on this one point, but that would be about, well, it.
They are, indeed! Mr. Medved is an exceptional historian and, regardless of your political stance, if you listen to his program more than once, you'll find him to be quite intelligent and quite congenial. He respects others and will effectively engage ANYONE who can challenge his rhetoric. Mr. O'Reilly is one of the most successful talk show hosts who also respects the views of others but will certainly challenge actions he feels are inarticulate and inane! Both gentlemen are successful authors who's views are rarely impuned except by those who simply despise conservatism.
Also, both are racists.
Short, to the point and totally baseless! I've yet to hear ANY racist comment from either and I am certain, noting your abridged comment, you have not one example of your charge!
Medved's idiotic attempt to defend American slavery.
O'Reilly's amazement that blacks can behave themselves.
Read 'em and weep.
Wouldn't the burden of proof be on them to prove via a birth certificate that he was born in another country? Surely they can find proof that Brack's mother was out of country the day Barack was born. Until they can do this, they have no teeth behind their argument.
I just want to offer some refutations to nutjob assertions that haven't been previously presented.
The COLB is not a forgery - The Certification of Live Birth (COLB) presented on factcheck and fightthesmears is not a forgery. It contains a certificate number. That number can be tracked and verified. If it were a forgery, presenting it as an official document would be a fraud. The Obama campaign would have been committing an easily detectable criminal offense. Given that no charges have been filed for that, I'd say it's safe to assume that it's genuine. The assertions by "experts" asserting "proof" that the COLB is a forgery have been examined and found to be badly flawed.
The COLB contains reliable information - If there were no birth certificate on file, the COLB could be subject to second-guessing. In 1961 it might, for example, just contain the information given by the mother for a child born at home. However, for Obama there is a BC on file. That has been confirmed by Hawaiian officials. In that case, the information on the COLB that we've all seen would have been based on the information on the BC. The two would not differ in details. The COLB states that Obama was born in Honolulu. That information came from the BC. If they contained different information the two would be reconciled using information from the original document.
I look forward to reading in Sen. Obama's book about his own birth. Probably something along the lines of "I was born at an early age..."