Days after decrying those who say Democrats are "trying to turn us into communist Russia," Beck claimed Obama "has Marxist tendencies"
SUMMARY: Glenn Beck -- who in a promotion last week for his upcoming Fox News program criticized those on the "right" who make statements about "those donkeys trying to turn us into communist Russia" -- asserted on his radio show that President-elect Barack Obama is a "socialist" who "has Marxist tendencies."
During the January 12 broadcast of his radio program, Glenn Beck -- who in a promotion last week for his upcoming Fox News program criticized those on the "right" who make statements about "those donkeys trying to turn us into communist Russia" -- asserted that President-elect Barack Obama is a "socialist" who "has Marxist tendencies." Beck claimed that "I don't want to get into name-calling," then stated: "However, with that being said, I don't believe name-calling is something like, 'That person's a socialist'; 'That person is a Marxist,' because that's like people pointing to me and going, 'Hmph, you're a conservative.' " After saying that "I don't think calling somebody a socialist or a Marxist is name-calling when you can back it up with facts," he went on to say: "Now, I am going to say what I believe is true, and I do believe that Barack Obama is a socialist." Beck added: "He may be a full-fledged Marxist. He has surrounded himself by Marxists his whole life."
Beck also asserted: "So let's match the words that our politicians are saying with those of Karl Marx or Lenin or Stalin. Do they match? Let's take some of the words from people like [Sen.] Chris Dodd [D-CT] and match them to Mussolini. Do they sound familiar? Yeah, some of them do."
In a promotion last week for his new show, Beck claimed: "I'm tired of the politics of left and right. It's about right and wrong. We argue back and forth -- 'If you haven't voted for the donkey, you're just a hatemonger.' The other side -- 'Oh, those donkeys trying to turn us into communist Russia.' Stop!" But as Media Matters for America has documented, on his CNN Headline News program, Beck repeatedly compared progressives -- including President-elect Barack Obama, Secretary of State-designate Hillary Clinton, and former Sen. John Edwards (D-NC) -- to Russian communists, Marxists, and socialists.
From the January 12 broadcast of Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Show:
BECK: I want to make it very, very clear that while I don't want to get into name-calling -- and I probably will, because I'm a weak and flawed individual -- there will come a time that I'll go, "He's a fat pig just like me" -- I would rather not, because it's not what Jesus would do, but I realize you're not listening to the Jesus program. And as much as I'd like to be like Jesus, I ain't ever going to get there. So, I'll try, but I'm a flawed individual.
However, with that being said, I don't believe name-calling is something like, "That person's a socialist"; "That person is a Marxist," because that's like people pointing to me and going, "Hmph, you're a conservative." Uh, yes. For a thousand, Alex?
I'm sorry, what is, "Yes, Glenn is a conservative?" It's not name-calling. I don't think the labels do enough, because when I say "conservative," you know, people say, "Oh, well, he's a conservative talk-show host." And that just kind of puts all kinds of ideas into people's heads. Well, yes, I'm a conservative, and, yes, I'm a talk-show host, but I'm much more of a libertarian than anything else. My conservative bent really runs to "leave me alone." Leave -- leave my business alone. Let me fail. If I can -- if I -- if I can -- if I can find a way to failure -- believe me, I can do it -- and I'm pretty good at finding ways to failure. I've failed most of my life. But then when I succeed, don't take it all away from me.
So, I am much more of a libertarian, but you can call me a conservative. You can call me a libertarian. You can call me a jerk. You can call me a fat fat fatty, because I kind of am. Have you seen me lately? Ooh, Boston cream doughnut last night. Jack Bauer was on TV. I was in heaven. But that's a different story.
I don't think calling somebody a socialist or a Marxist is name-calling when you can back it up with facts. When you can back it up with -- I mean, you know, I don't have anybody's Marxist card or socialist, you know, World Workers Party card, but I do have their words, and I know the difference. I mean, I have said on this program -- is it name-calling to say, "That guy sounds like a Founding Father"? Is that name-calling? Or is that just matching that person's words with the words of the Founders? That's all it is. So let's match the words that our politicians are saying with those of Karl Marx or Lenin or Stalin. Do they match? Let's take some of the words from people like Chris Dodd and match them to Mussolini. Do they sound familiar? Yeah, some of them do.
Now, you've got to take out the whole, "You know what, I think Hitler -- I'm going to help him with the Jew thing, too." You know, they're not saying that, but people say many of the same things. Now, I am going to say what I believe is true, and I do believe that Barack Obama is a socialist. He is -- he has Marxist tendencies. He may be a full-fledged Marxist. He has surrounded himself by Marxists his whole life. And if you're a socialist, I don't know why that's a bad thing, because socialism doesn't seem to be a bad thing in America anymore. Most people are like, "Yeah, socialism isn't so bad."















I don't think calling somebody a socialist or a Marxist is name-calling when you can back it up with facts.
You have yet to present a single fact there, pudgy cream donut boy. All you've done is call him one. Name just one policy that is Marxist to prove your point, and show an equivelant actual marxist policy that does the same thing. Just one.
Well, it's name-calling because it is name-calling, regardless of whether it's true or not.
wet brain has been communing with his god Bacchus. Charles Manson has more credibility than becki boy
Does "spread the wealth around" ring a bell?
Does "post an actual example" ring a bell?
Apparently you failed to make the connection between Obama's reply to Joe the Plumber and Marxist philosophy. (Otherwise you would still not be asking for an example when I just gave you one.)
Yep. Spreading the wealth around is just a leftist's way to advocate taking from one class and giving it to another, whatever label Beck or others give it doesnt matter.
To whom much is given, much will be required.
Luke 12:48
Is it safe to call this Marxist as well, or doesn't your logic go that far?
what does that biblical verse have to do with Obama, or public policy? SEems funny to read a liberal quoting scripture as a defense.
How about spreading to wealth around to the already wealthy? As in, the Bush tax cuts. How do you square that?
It doesn't have anything to do with Obama. I thought we were talking about Marx, but you avoided my question.
I'd guess that most liberals are religious, although I'm not. I don't know what you think I was defending, I was only trying to clarify the connection between Marxism and Christianity that you and AA seem to be making.
Christianity is about charity, giving and helping out your neighbor. real Christianity that is. it isnt about rewarding those that want to live off of someone else. thats not any religion, that is socialism
What? How many poor people, in your opinion James, "want to live off of someone else?" Give me a percentage and how many of those are children.
Are you really claiming there is a significant number who want to "live off of someone else?"
As far as your thinking its funny that scripture is used by a liberal, I find it ironic that Jesus, the Prince of Peace, and the one who hung out with the "lowest" of society, is quoted by those in those who seek to divide the country and start wars.
If they don't want to work, or cry for the government to redistribute income, they are living off of someone else. i am not talking about children, i am talking about able bodied adults
And I asked you for a percentage of people with that mentality. Could you give me your best guess on how many people "want" to live off of others that are poor?
You just described wealthy republicans. They live off of our labor and cry for the government to bail them out whenever they make bad choices. We just saw a trillion dollar bailout to your socialist bosses.
Who, in your opinion, is a "poor person"? How many are there?
I find it ironic that people who do not believe in Jesus and are not religious, try to use biblical quotes out of context to make their case.
It surely is "Christian" to help the poor. Charity is a great virtue. Socialism separates itself from Christianity by corrupting this virtue and forcing others to give up their earnings in order to achieve those charitible ends. However forcing others to give up their wealth in order redistribute that wealth is not charity, it is taxes.
Most sincere Christians, who have the resources, give money and time to help the needy above paying taxes. Christians do not begrudge helping the poor after all, we are called to do so. However Jesus did not say to forcibly coerce others to help. Charity. Giving must come first of all, from the heart.
And before the welfare state existed in this country people gave more of their own money because they could. it wasn't going to prop up social programs, people knew that and gave plenty to help out their neighbor. We as Americans don't need to government to step in with their greedy bureacratic hands and take from one and give to another, all while paying administrators to do it. we can do it just fine without their help, we always do.
You are absolutely hilarious!
You mean that the bailout that was approved not too long ago should be given back to the taxpayers who foot the bill? Gee, I'd love to see some of that money back, instead of going into the pockets of the CEO's of these corporations...
Admit it, the basic difference (in this instance) between a lib and a con is that libs want the people to get "the bailout" (i.e. a hand up when they need it) versus the cons who want businesses to get "the bailout" (a hand in the pockets of taxpayers) to pay themselves huge bonuses. Really all cons want is to give corporate welfare (read: corporate socialism) to corporations, the poor be damned. Let those that actually produce suffer while those who make poor decisions based on greed make as much as they can. Christian, indeed.
Methinks Christ would more than likely ostrasize people like that.
And before the welfare state existed in this country people gave more of their own money because they could.
You sure about that? Hooverville ring any bells there, champ?
So you think the Bible is just "suggestions", AA? Nobody is "forcibly coercing" you to be an American citizen, you're free to leave if you don't like paying taxes.
What is "ironic" about people (especially those who you're too cowardlty to address directly) using words from the Bible to point out the hypocrisy of you and other phony Christians?
I don't think you'd recognize irony if it crawled up your backside while you were pretending to pray, you ridiculous little phony.
AA,
I'll go with the government standards for now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
Funny that you think that its coercion to "force" people to give to the poor via taxes. I am a religious guy so I hope you don't mind me quoting scripture. What was that line about rendering unto Casear?
Also, if you think taxes are "forcibly coercing" people to give, why do you believe in outlawing gay marriage? How can you base that on Biblical scripture and not helping the poor? After all, if you "forcibly coerce" people from marrying each other, aren't you doing the same thing?
I find it ironic that those on the right who claim to be real christians are always judging others and claiming those they judge will never be christian. Like the way they continue to judge Barack...
To some evangelicals, Obama will never be a real Christian
By David Neiwert Wednesday Jan 14, 2009 2:15pm
The fine upstanding folks at the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission have announced their Top Ten Instances of Christian Bashing in America. It's highly amusing, of course (Jack Black and you Prop 8 backers, I think you can count on going to hell), but this one caught my eye:
First, I'm a bit confused: How exactly did Obama "defame" Christianity by claiming to be a Christian? This is Christian-bashing exactly how?
But then there's the matter of what Obama's writings and statements actually are pertaining to his faith:
However, I think I began to get a picture of why Obama might not be a "real Christian" for these folks when I took a look at what he has on his website [pdf file]:
For the hardcore evangelical crowd -- who practice a pinched, narrow, picayune, highly judgmental kind of Christianity -- these kinds of sentiments are indeed blasphemy, even though they're perfectly in keeping with what Jesus of Nazareth preached. Indeed, I know many very serious Christians -- priests, pastors, and theologians among them -- who hold similar if not identical views.
And I've known many evangelicals who consider all such people (myself included) not to be "real Christians." But I'm content knowing that God, and not they, will be the final arbiter of that.
SEems funny to read a liberal quoting scripture as a defense.
It only seems funny to a select group of necons. To other Christians it is an insult.
Seems funny to me if a conservative claims the scripture doesn't have anything to do with puiblic policy.
oh and by the way, people who earn money aren't given it, and look up who pays most of the taxes in the USA, it's people with money.
Not as a percentage of their income, which is how you judge these things.
...people who earn money aren't given it
Who's withholding money from those earning it? You're really sounding crazy now.
Ans people with money pay all of the taxes in this country. How the hell can somebody with no money pay anything?
you're the one who said to whom much is given. People that earn their own money are given anything, they earn it. keep your insults to yourself.
you're the one who said to whom much is given.
I was only quoting, it's from the Bible. Take it up with God if you have a problem. I haven't posted any insults.
i don't quote the Bible when discussing economics. and if calling me crazy isnt an insult, tell me what is.
I thought it seemed more an act of compassion than an insult. The Colonel knows there can never be a cure if the problem is not acknowledged. You should be grateful he cares enough to take the first step toward a remedy.
Thanks, Neon, I thought it was clearly a neighborly act. I only said "sounding crazy", I wasn't diagnosing any permanent condition. I guess no good deed goes unpunished by our phony-Christian wingnuts.
i would say someone who admits to not being religious but quotes the bible as some backup for his opinions on economic policy is indeed a phony.
Since I'm not religious, I don't use the Bible as a backup source for anything, especially econimic policy. I do think there are some very solid ideas in that book, most of them completely ignored by the loudest Bible-thumpers.
. I only use the Bible in response to those who pretend to follow its words, to point out their hypocrisy.
Is that starting to sink in yet?
James said look it up, so I did
"The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax."
That is from a right wing web site last year.
Pay attention to the first half of the sentence. One perecent of the population earns nearly one fifth of all the income in the USA. Were it not for progressive income tax the disparity would be greater. Were it not for the progressive income tax more at the bottom would be on welfare. It's cheaper and more effective in the long run to simply let the poor keep more of their income. The arument against progressive income tax is stillborn. It's only a question of how much.
And those sites only cite income tax for a reason. If we took into account all taxes paid, many of which are pretty regressive, that top 1% actually pays a much lower percent of their income in those taxes and lower income classes pay much higher percentages of their incomes.
But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality
How about that one?
maybe if you spent less time worrying about what somebody else has, and worry about your own abundance, or lack of you wouldn't have to scrounge up quotes to defend taking from one person and giving it to another.
I spend very little of my time worrying about what anybody else has. You seem to be pretty concerned about it, though.
don't start with your hateful anti-christian rant please.
I'm still all wet from all of the tears from yesterdays Christiana as victim crying fest.
Tell me about it, W-King. A co-worker forwarded me something from Ben Stein yesterday, a long whine fest from a sypathetic conservative Jew bemoaning the tribulations of Christian-Americans. It was heart-breaking. And chock full of strawmen and imagined Secular-progressive evil-doing.
Sorry I haven't been here to back you up lately. Typing with just my right hand sucks.I don't see how right handed people can do it.
If I have to read one more post from some whining, childish xtian telling us how cruel they're being treated I swear I'm going to barf.
It's like they're in some kind of "Gitmo" without walls.
Oh the horror,the horror. (stolen from Joseph Conrad).
I'm not going to lift lines without attribution like someone who'll remain nameless did with Lewis Carrol's words yesterday
This coming from the same moron (Beck) who used a video clip of FoxNoise's 24 as a way to prove that torture works?
I think that by now it is beyond painfully obvious that Glen Beck is in a contest for the dumbest idiot on TV.... and Hannity is none to happy about it!!
Bite your tongue! Hannity shall NEVER relinqush his title!
Beck has been disqualified for testing positive for substances...
Substance is a word that could never be reasonably applied to Glenn Beck.
AA,
On a related note, are you in favor of the earned income tax credit or is that just more Marxism?
AA doesn't realize that for the last 8 years wealth has been "spread" upwards to the most wealthy. Look where that's gotten us.
Obama is simply trying to swing the pendulum back towards a sane policy that helps the MOST people.
fog,
I disagree with your assertion.
The primary cause of the current recession is in my opinion, the policies put in place by well meaning Democrats through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack to provide risky home loans. That was a house of cards that fell in and the resulting lack of credit availability is having a domino effect across the economy.
However it is a plain fact that the economy has recessions. Some are big, some small. This is a bigger one.
I understand Obama trying to help out most people. It is simply a matter of how you go about doing it. If you want to redistribute wealth through taxes and nationalize industries, you are promoting what in essence is Marxist Socialism. If you try to do it through lower taxes and less government, you are relying on Capitalism.
Many people believe that socialism takes away incentive to produce more goods and services that grow the economy. It has been pretty well proven by the failed economies of the Soviet Union and other Communist countries, who used this variant of Socialism, as their economic model.
Is Capitalism perfect. Heck no. But it seems to produce more wealth for all segments of society than does Socialism.
Which industry has Obama proposed a nationalization of?
I think Barney's just going to keep arguing with nobody in particular about his imaginary socialist enemies. He may only be trying to look busy here to avoid taking responsibility for his other recent BS on this site.
Pete,
You must not read the papers. Obama has a health-care proposal that essentially nationalizes that industry.
He is not alone. Bush effectively nationalized the banking and insurance industries and is doing the same with the auto industry. \
We are indeed on the slippery slope to socialism.
No, when it comes to this, I don't read the papers. I read Obama's proposals.
He is not proposing the dismantling and nationalization of the private insurance industry. Obama has stated numerous times that under his plan, if you like the insurance you have, you keep it.
The private health-care insurance market has failed to lower costs by way of competition. Obama wants to give people who can't afford it another option.
You have no proof of socialism or Marxism in this respect.
SUre it does. It is an absolute fact that when you give people something they haven't worked for, they take it for granted and just expect more. Its human nature. there is no pride of ownership, or pride in hard work and earning your own way. Socialism punishes success and rewards mediocrity and laziness. why work hard when you can get it for free, nobody is that dumb. Leftists keep saying income has been redistributed upwards, but low taxes is not redistributing anything, it just keeps more money in the pockets of those who earned it, not those with their hand out.
You forget the huge bailout that just took place.
Half of it is missing. I wonder who benefitted there? Sure wasn't me, or people like me, who work for a living. You know, people like me who get up at zero dark 30 to go to work, while rich fat cats sleep in?
You make it sound like there's some huge percent of the population who says, "Geez, I think I'll not work anymore and live off the government." I don't have the stats, but I'm willing to bet that 90-95% of those who receive unemployment benefits who are able to work, are WILLING TO WORK. Yep, you guessed it, the unemployed WANT TO WORK.
Basically what you cons have done over the last 40+ years is draw up a straw man argument with regards to the huge number of lazy bums who collect unemployment benefits, then perpetuate it with the whole "the welfare queens suck" mentality that really doesn't exist to the point you want other people to think it does.
If you wealthy right wingers are so against welfare, then by golly create some jobs and put those people back to work! You claim you create the jobs...so get crackin'!
If you wealthy right wingers are so against welfare
I wouldn't be so quick to assume these guys have any money. Unless they inherited it, I'd guess they're more likely a couple of working suckers who only worship the rich. I know some people who make a lot of money, and none of them fall for this crap. They know how things are.
Which economic policies has Obama borrowed from the Soviet Union and other communist countries as part of his proposals?
AA, the primary cause of the current recession is Republican de-regulation, whick lead to the S&L debacle under Reagan and Bush41. The GOP didn't learn from that, as de-regulating the banking industry has led to Wall Street bankers running wild like they are in a Vegas casino with fistfulls of cash. There are some dirty Dem hands, also, but de-regulation is the primary cause. And McSame wanted to de-regulate the health care industry. Good thing for most Americans that McSame and Caribou Barbie were sent packing.
AA there you go again pushing some tired old line about poor people forcing Demo's to put pressure on Freddie and Fannie to give loans to poor people they knew they couldn't pay back. That is PURE BS and has been refuted but I guess it doesn't fit into your ideology so you refuse to accept facts here are some for you:"
Scapegoating Minorities for Failures of Banking
Blaming CRA makes little sense, but gets finance industry off the hook
by Mary Kane
It seems, on the face of it, a theory too absurd to even be taken seriously: A ragtag band of anti-poverty activists pushes the White House into forcing lenders to make bad loans to poor and minority borrowers, setting off a subprime loan crisis that puts the entire global economy at risk...
The remarkable thing about the spread of the CRA story was that it was simple to refute: The basic facts about the regulation didn't support the accusations. Gregory Squires, a sociology professor at George Washington University who studies redlining, said one of the gratifying effects of the move to blame the CRA was the eventual pushback by some publications. In outlining what the CRA really does, those stories and editorials educated people about what had been a misunderstood and slightly obscure 30-year-old law, he noted.
Editorials in the L.A. Times (10/25/08) and in the New York Times (10/15/08) dismissed the charges surrounding the CRA as inaccurate; as the NYT pointed out, CRA rules apply to banks, not to the private, unregulated mortgage lenders that made the vast majority of subprime loans during the boom. And the L.A. Times noted that the CRA was not the source of the mortgage products blamed for defaults:
The last things anyone wanted from the CRA were the exotic mortgages that have failed at alarming rates, including "liar loans" and "negative amortization" mortgages whose low payments pushed borrowers deeper into debt. So why did those types of loans and other questionable practices proliferate? Because they generated higher returns for lenders and investors.
The Washington Post also ran a news story refuting the claims (10/3/08). And Aaron Pressman of Business Week (9/29/08) offered a particularly sharp rebuttal, calling CRA critics "know-nothings," linking to Congressional testimony and other evidence exonerating the CRA, as well as providing a summary of posts in the blogosphere challenging the idea.
McClatchy Newspapers also followed up with a widely cited piece (10/12/08) that pinpointed the private sector as the source of the subprime boom:
Federal Reserve Board data show that: More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions. Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year. Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.
But in many ways the pushback was too little, too late. Despite the rebuttals, it has become an article of faith among many that the CRA played some part in the housing crisis problem. And the attention paid to the CRA overshadowed what should have been a genuine controversy over discriminatory lending behavior in the mortgage market during the housing boom...
The claim that minority borrowers were to blame adds insult to injury, since predatory lending and the foreclosure crisis have already and will continue to wipe out billions of dollars of wealth in communities of color. The ink is not yet dry on this one, but I suspect that the idea that borrowers are to blame has gotten more resonance than it rightly deserves.
That resonance exists in some measure because blaming the CRA put borrowers on the defensive. The pushback involved explaining that the CRA didn't force banks to lend to risky borrowers-instead of focusing on the culpability of lenders in targeting minority borrowers for high-cost loans to begin with.
Plenty of evidence exists to document that problem. In July, the NCRC released a study (NCRC.org, 7/31/08) showing that minority borrowers, regardless of income, were the most at risk of receiving high-cost mortgage loans. And the tendency for minority borrowers to pay more than their white counterparts for their loans increased with the minority borrowers' incomes.
The previous month, an analysis of foreclosures in the Washington, D.C., area found Prince George's County-the nation's wealthiest black suburb (Washington Post, 7/26/07)-had one of the highest foreclosure rates in the nation (Washington Post, 6/19/08). A year earlier, the Post, using an analysis of Federal Reserve data, concluded that Prince George's County residents were more likely to have subprime loans than predominantly white areas-a disparity that couldn't be explained by the county's credit scores, which ranked above state averages (Washington Post, 3/17/07).
In many ways, media let CRA's opponents set both the terms and tenor of the debate. As a result, the real scandal-the discrimination against minority borrowers at all income levels-failed to get the coverage it deserved." Your short disertation on Socialism and Capitalism is just pure conservative BS. I'll just say what Beck was doing is called "red-baiting." It is a tactic used mostly against union organizers by companies to scare workers away from the organizer and obscure the issues and need for worker unity. By calling the organizer or union "red" or "commie" the attempt was to place communism and socialism as the issue as opposed to lets say worker safety, wages or anti-discriminatory practices of the company.
The article you provided sidesteps the real issue, which is the CRA's effect on the whole real estate market.
"The CRA empowers the FDIC and other banking regulators to punish those banks which do not lend to the poor and minorities at the level that Obama’s fellow community organizers would like. Among other things, mergers and acquisitions can be blocked if CRA inquisitors are not satisfied that their demands — which are political demands — have been met. There is a name for loans made to people who do not have the credit, assets, income, or down payment to qualify for a normal mortgage: subprime." -NRO
Me -This pressure by regulators, and the fact that Freddie Mack and Fannie Mae took on much of the risk for those subprime loans made it an easy decision for banks to issue subprime loans. They could make money handling the transactions and not worry about possible foreclosures. Companies like Lehman Brothers, WaMu and others created loans and bought the securities instruments of bundled subprime loans which collapsed when many of those loans came up for renewal or simply defaulted.
"It was politics, too, that created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, enabled them to dominate the mortgage market, and implicitly took upon American taxpayers the risks of those business while the rewards were enjoyed, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, by largely Democratic political opportunists, who then gave generously to Democrats, the top recipients of their largesse being: Chris Dodd, Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Kerry, and Barack Obama. And it was politics that unwisely nationalized Fannie and Freddie without resolving the underlying moral hazard — private profit, public risk — that makes those institutions problematic. From this Senator Obama takes away the lesson that there has been a failure of the market, and that what is needed is more politics. In this analysis Obama is as wrong as it is possible to be."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Mzk3MzFiYWY3NjUyNzUyNzA4MzYzNTk2ZDVhMDFiMWE
Again, and this goes out to anyone who thinks that the housing bubble bursting alone is the primary and only culprit in the financial meltdown, whether you blame FM/FM or private subprime operators, that was simply the trigger and an easily forseeable event. It all hinges upon the mistaken belief that property will always increase in value indefinitely and without end and that the housing bubble would be unlike any other bubble that preceded it and never burts. But the real damage was done by the CDS's and CDO's, which are so unworkable and ultimately impossible that they turned a burst bubble that would have produced a shorter and easier to manage recession into a near depression with global ripple effects that are still going on.
It's actually quite simple, you cannot make a profit by selling the same debt over and over again while collateralizing it with an asset that was overvalued to begin with.
Oh yeah, AA, National Review is a partisan opinion magazine, not unblemished spin free fact. In case you somehow didn't know that. I know you seem to have problems identifying editorial from news and wouldn't want you to be confused.
"National Review and NRO are America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for Republican/conservative news, commentary, and opinion."
http://www.nationalreview.com/mediakit/
No, no no no no.
The primary cause of the current recession is laissez faire economics: little oversight and NO regulation. Hhhhmmm...which party supports this? Answer: The Republican party. It had nothing to do with "...well meaning Democrats through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack (sic)...". If this is the fault of a risky home loan scheme, then it was perpetuated by the Republicans. They were in power when these risky lending schemes came into play. Republicans were in power when lenders were approving risky loans for people who they knew wouldn't be able to pay. It's the lending industry's misrepresentation (on a massive scale) that caused this house of cards to fall. And where was the oversight? Where was the regulation? Oh...the Republicans don't believe in oversight and regulation (unless it is, of course, regarding social issues, such as homosexuality, but that's another topic).
Admit it: This is a situation where Conservative economic theories/policies fall apart. Our current recession is a perfect example that some (SOME) regulation is needed. You cons failed the American public. That's the reason your party is in shambles and you have little power in government these days.
Simply put, the Republican Party S-U-C-K-S.
...policies put in place by well meaning Democrats through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack to provide risky home loans.
I wonder what policies those were. I'm pretty sure FMae & FMac don't provide the loans, so it looks like Barney is saying FM/FM put the policies in place. Interesting.
Boy I say boy you are lost. You say you disagree with me, and then produce 5 paragraphs of drivel that do not even address my post.
The gap between the rich and the poor RIGHT NOW after 8 years of Bush stealing from the poor is the widest since the robber baron period right before the Great Depression.
It has nothing to do with capitalism, socialism, marxism, or whatever other isms you throw out. It has to do with EQUALITY. And saving our economy from (and for) people like you.
Marxist PHILOSOPHY???
How about an actual enacted policy?
If you need an example, look at what Alaska does with oil money.
If you need an example, look at what Alaska does with oil money. - Pete592
Now that, my friend, is socialism I can believe in! :)
What exactly are the Marxist tendencies of which Beck speaks?
I wish Beck would display Harpo Marxist tendencies and shut the hell up.
Cleanup on aisle 6 !
Hey, AA, it looks like you've been caught in yet another lie on yesterday's Palin/preggers thread. A decent person would go try to either salvage their credibility, or admit to the lie and apologize.
You'll probably just move on to splashing around today's slop -bucket of troll water.
That comment was made in the context of a statement about progressive taxation, a very American idea begun under Abraham Lincoln, and supported by many Republicans since. Award-winning PolitiFact.com gave Sarah Palin a "Pants on Fire" (as in "liar, liar") for accusing Obama of being sympathetic to socialism:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/dec/03/sarah-palin/the-mccain-campaign-experiments-with-dishonesty/
You beat me to it. He says it's Ok to name call if you back it up with facts and then fails to do so. What a fool. (This name calling is supported by the preceding sentence.)
This coming from the same moron (Beck) who used a video clip of FoxNoise's 24 as a way to prove that torture works?
I think that by now it is beyond painfully obvious that Glen Beck is in a contest for the dumbest idiot on TV.... and Hannity is none to happy about it!!
Carol M. Browner, President-elect Barack Obama's pick as global warming czar, was listed as one of 14 leaders of a socialist group's Commission for a Sustainable World Society or know as Socialist International, an umbrella group for many of the world's social democratic political parties such as Britain's Labor Party,. This group supports socialism and is harshly critical of U.S. policies. Until last week, Carol M. Browner, President-elect Barack Obama’s pick as global warming czar, was listed as one of 14 leaders of a socialist group. Guessing Carol has the U.S. best interest at heart.
Since she in not in office just yet, I can not name a single policy she has helped influence in his admistration. I will keep my eye on her and let you know.
Settle down, Senator McCarthy...it will all turn out OK.
This country will not become a socialist paradise, no matter how hard I (or Ms. Browner) try.
Just responding to Snoopy's question up top.
You may want to read up on that group. Just because it has the word "social" in it's name is no reason to assume the worst.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/01/12/socialist-czar-conspiracy/
Students of political science and history would note that:
1. Karl Marx was German and thrived prior to the communist revolution in Russia
2. The USSR looked very little like Marx's ideal socialist society in development and administration.
So, I could make a statement like Beck's and not be hypocritical, because I understand the difference between Marxism and the USSR, and can say someone has Marxist tendencies without implying that they're soviet communists.
Whether Beck understands that is a different story =-)
It is name-calling.
I don't mean that in a plaintive whining way, I mean it as a flat statement of fact: the guy calls people names, but never once even tries to explain why... not once in the transcribed words of this guy (as they appear above), does he make any sensible explanation of WHY someone is (as he name-calls them) a communist or a Marxist or a socialist...
"I don't think calling somebody a socialist or a Marxist is name-calling when you can back it up with facts"
...and so where are the facts then? Nowhere to be found. He just calls somebody a name, and leaves it at that.
No wonder Republicans (and that's the name for this hack fool beck, despite his weaseling invocation of "Libertarian"), no wonder their ranks grow thinner and thinner among the American People and the electorate: most folks are ripe and eager for actually debating the issues: but you can't debate them, if you won't identify them, specifically...
And so that's this hack fool's schtick: he calls someone a name, and then looks around the room to see how many other fools are in agreement... while the rest of us just look on in amusement, and wonder:
"Just exactly why and how is President Obama a Marxist, or shows 'Marxist tendencies'?"
Somehow, that crucial information is not in any way contained in the name: but let's not stop name-callers by pointing this out.
There is a fear, actually a HORROR, that someone, somewhere will get a little money and that it is going to be TAKEN AWAY from the ones who deserve it, that is, the wealthy. After all, they "earned" it by "hard work" and "thrift" and all those things that the unwashed don't use. Anytime fare treatment of the middle class and the poor comes up, it is interpreted as "socialism". We have been so thoroughly brain-washed into hatred for anything that smacks of equity as an evil ideology, called "socialism". The very term, "Social" Security makes the right cringe and quake.
Sad but true, until some calamity happens to them,then me becomes WE.
First the radio talk show hosts came for the republicans and shouted out their republican identity...then that didn't look so good with Bush...so you heard, "I'm not a Republican, I'm a Conservative!" Then that started to look REEEALLY bad with gay bashing and anything oh...REALLY Christian...now they're all saying I'M A LIBERTARIAN!!! Funny, funny, funny. Beck said it best: Leave him alone to fail. Heard and will do! You wanna be like Jesus? Give away all you own, leave your family and go for it. ;-)
"And as much as I'd like to be like Jesus, I ain't ever going to get there."--Glenn Beck
Didn't Jesus have "Marxist tendencies"? Maybe that's why he "ain't ever going to get there."
Does this clown still have his CNN show?
The Glenn Beck traveling circus.
Or did CNN finally wake up and send this creature back to whatever hole he crawled out of.
No, to the first question.
Second question: Yes, if that "hole" is FoxNews: his new show debuts next week.
I could have an easier time making the argument that many preachers have Marxist tendencies, especially when preaching a sermon.
Funny. I don't hear many preachers preaching class warfare between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie, nor do I hear them preach about the overthrow of capitalism with socialism.
Which preachers do you listen to?
No honest Christian preachers would be promoting the class warfare that we see in most of the world today . That's more of a conservative religious belief. Jesus preached against the rich oppressing the poor.
Nor have I heard Barack Obama advocate any of those things. Right wingers have been calling liberals socialists for decades so it's predictable that Obama would be hung with the same label. But Marxist...? A bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?
Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs and the regulation of markets; (wikopedia)
However Obama is not the only one. He just happened to campaign and win promising more socialism. You have to connect very few dots to get to Marx and his theories.
However it is not surprising that many on the left are ignorant of Marxist thought and how Obama matches up very well as a 21st Century Marxist.
Don't be offended, if one believes in redistribution of wealth, class struggle and larger government, then one can equally be called Progressive. Which we all know is a euphamism for the modern Liberal which at it's core is Marxist
Barney, why don't you try to clean up your mess from yesterday before creating a new one? Seriously, your troll work is not even very good troll work.
Don't be offended, if one believes in redistribution of wealth, class struggle and larger government, then one can equally be called Progressive. Which we all know is a euphamism for the modern Liberal which at it's core is Marxist
Why don't you leave Bush out of this, we were discussing Barack Obama...
LOL Kyle! I always am curious. What the hell is so wrong with nationalized healthcare anyway? And please - whoever you are - don't tell me the "I waited 4 years for a new heart" scenario. Seems to be working ok in much of the world -- and here. Kaiser here in CA is close. If you can AFFORD something better, Obama's plan lets that happen. If you can't, maybe all the Christians might enjoy helping a bit. I know I would pay more taxes if I knew more people were being helped. Oh, but WHOOPS, I'm a liberal and therefore Godless, sorry.
"Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries"
Which industry has Obama proposed a nationalization of?
"He just happened to campaign and win promising more socialism."
What, specifically, is the promise you speak of? Can you quote him?
"You have to connect very few dots to get to Marx and his theories."
Please, connect some for us, so that we may be enlightened.
AA, when did Barack Obama renounce capitalism?
I will be the first to admit that elements that could be called socialism have crept into our government over many years...and I'm perfectly comfortable with that because it has served the purpose of allowing all Americans the opportunity to live their lives with dignity. Capitalism is still the best system, but left unrestrained, and with the inequities that inevitably follow, the seeds of socialistic revolt are sown. So-called socialist programs are safety valves for the benefit of the entire country. But capitalism is still the king. And it natuarally follows that to embrace socialism or Marxism is to renounce capitalism. When has Barack Obama renounced capitalism?
To call Barack Obama a socialist or Marxist is nothing but right wing hyperbole...which Glenn Beck previously decried. Barack Obama is just a normal American who understands the growing disparity between rich and poor and understands that is not in the best interest of America.
He's not interested in elaborating on his assertions yet, it seems.
The renunciation of capitalism is a good question.
I was about inquire about Obama's declaration of widespread exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie. Surely that must have happened at some point during a speech somewhere.
You do realize that the largest expansion of the federal government took place under a republican right? And that a republican had to just about nationalize the banks right?
You keep saying redistribution of wealth, but what really happens under an Obama tax plan is that the vast majority of Americans, including probably yourself, get to take home MORE money that you EARN. You're not getting it from somewhere else, you're taking home MORE of what you earn because of a lower tax rate. The rich had their taxes cut under Bush, time for the rest of us to have a tax cut, and by the way. I thought republicans LOVED tax cuts? Or do they just love them when done by republicans for the rich guys of our country?
The repugs have redistributed the wealth, to the top. Capitalism is dead, the repugs need to understand it needed to have restraints, greed unchecked killed the golden goose and we won't be going back to Ronnie Rayguns crap ever again. It won't be possible to. Thanks repugs.
Don't be offended, if one believes in redistribution of wealth, class struggle and larger government, then one can equally be called Progressive. Which we all know is a euphamism for the modern Liberal which at it's core is Marxist.
Wow. It's so tempting just to dismiss you with the proper mockery which you so richly deserve for that sack of garbage you call a conclusion. But sometimes one hopes that today is the day that the brick wall yields to the skull.
What you did there was define Marxism as Marxism and then define all other left leaning schools of political thought as Marxism as well.
It's as silly as saying something like: "If one believes in the primacy of the individual above all, the minimization of government to impotency and the absolute removal of all regulations on the market then one can be equally called a Libertarian. Which we all know is a euphemism for the modern Conservative which at its core is an Anarchist."
In other words, in your view of the world, the only two schools of political thought ever are obviously complete anarchy or total statism.
Wow.
Wait a minute? He decries those who say Dems are "trying to turn us into communist Russia?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4
Ahh. Jeff Beck is going to steal the crown of Worst Person on Olbermann from Billo if he's not careful. What a douche.
Hope not but if Glenn Beck doesn't, I'd be surprised.
Jeff Beck? From The Yardbirds?
PJ, JEFF Beck is a great guitar player. GLENN Beck is just another low life, conservative hate monger and barely functional idiot. You know, the kind that conservatives follow like sheep.
God what I was thinking? I meant GLENN Beck. Sorry!
Maybe you meant Jeff Baxter. He's a pretty good guitar player who's a wackaloon just like Glenn Beck.
wing nuts have no problem taking advantage of every government program they can to get in the next tax-bracket
then when they get there, they complain about "socialism"
I think that is funny.
It's interesting to see the conservative posters here rush to defend Beck. Look at the statement BO is a "socialist" who "has Marxist tendencies."???? The posters here jumped at the bait,but what are Marxist tendencies!?!???Spreading the wealth is not Marxist as the Col. pointed out in his use of scripture to show that that idea was around long before Marx or socialism. Beck blew his dog-whistle and they responded.
Well, "common" except to some who see decenecy as un-Christian and socialist.
Evolutionist's use the term "mutual altruism". A winning strategy in many other species as well as humanity.
I'd just add Col. for survival as a species too! We are "social" beings at our core. Anyway i dig your post!
Right on Moonbat. Watch the spin on anti-FDR programs which many of our parents and grandparents were saved by and which probably are the reason many of us are here today. Greed, greed, greed. Cloaked in any other name would stink as bad.
I'm tired, but great posts, the bunch above this. Capitalism works, always has, that's why nobody here is arguing against it, except for the shoddy strawmen thrown together by the wingnuts.
Of course, unregulated capitalism is about as human as a great white shark, that's why this country was founded on, and thrives on, a certain amount of socialism tempering that greed-magnet. The "free market" in it's purest state is like a car without brakes.You might reduce some of the overall weight, and hit a higher top speed, but I wouldn't want to drive it, no sane person would.
Why do I get the feeling that if Jesus came back to earth today , I (a completely non-religious person) would feel obligated to take him aside and apologize for many of the "Christians" I meet?
Ten of trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities is not a certain amount of socialism, it is unsustainable expenditures that threatens "free markets" and capitalism.
To your bible quote:
To whom much is given, much will be required.
Luke 12:48
It is always bad practice to take a sentence out of context, you tend to miss the true meaning. If you read verses Luke 12:41-48, you will find that Jesus is telling a parable about a master (God), a manager (you), and servants (people you are in charge of). When you do bad things and don't take care of the servants while the master is gone, you are in big trouble when the master returns. For whom the master has given much authority, much will be demanded from that person.
For the sake of argument, I'll give you your interpretation. According to the Bible everything we have comes from God, and as believers we are asked to tithe and give back a portion of our earnings to him. God does not need my money and he does not want anything from a begrudging giver. God only wants us to give with a cheerful heart. The real difference is that I can chose whether I give or not based on my convictions. When the government confiscates my money, I don't have a choice.
I have noticed that in good times the government grows and gets bigger and in bad times the government grows and gets bigger. Why is that? When the "free market" has to down size to stay in business, why is it the government feels compelled to continue to grow? Our constitution requires that we have a 'limited government'. We have spent trillions of dollars to fix poverty and now we have both poverty and more debt.
When the government confiscates my money, I don't have a choice.
MOst of your long-winded post is just babbling, so I'll onlyaddress this line.
Sorry, it's pantywaist ,passive ,victim mentality stuff. I like being an American citizen, and while I would love as efficiently run government as possible, I'm an adult, and I understand the cost of being an American, and right now, it is what it is.
You're free to leave and take your whining to any number of countries that are accepting freeloading immigrants. You're probably sponging off of those of us who are productive anyway, so you won't be missed. Good luck.
We are accepting freeloading illegal immigrants here and they have almost bankrupt the state of California where I live. You would refer to that has helping the needy.
I paid more in taxes last year then most people earned. My question to you is what makes the politicians so smart that we need to turn a blind eye to them spending 4 trillion dollars a year. That is almost 25% of the GDP.
I didn't know the US government represented God!???Paying taxes is not confiscation, but for the sake of argument I'll give you the point you don't have a choice!? I think here is what is necessary for the common good. You obviously disagree. I pay taxes for public schools but have no children attending them but I see the benefits of providing "free" public education for all children regardless of race or class to society as whole. Infact I'am frustrated that we don't as a society spend more on early childhood development as this increases learning potential. I'am for my funding for research to fight HIV/AIDS and new strands of tuberculosis and frustrated that more of my tax dollars go to fund and fight illegal wars and rob society of our best and brightest and waste precious time and funds. As far as spending trillions to fight poverty we haven't done enough as billions of people throughout the world live on just dollars a day, most of the suffering by children caused by this fictional free market system. Like most of your scribe this fantasy utopian concept of the the free market disappeared with the development of the nation state, even Alan Greenspan has come to that realization and has thrown away his Ayn Rand(sp) books. We also have different interpretations of the constitution and this BS about limited government is always trotted out when the needs of the working man is discussed, but conventiently overlooked when it comes to providing tax breaks for Halliburton ,Enron, Solar, Westinghouse and the many companies that feed at the public troth, read: my tax dollars. Contrary to your belief that our debt has increased not because we used it to fight poverty and disease, it increased because we cut taxes for the wealthiest borrowed from China to fund an illegal war in Iraq that is costing us $1trillion dollars and counting. The privitizing of the different services of this war has again has enriched not those doing the dying,suffering and fighting but the private contractors. There is your limited government at work, eliminating jobs once done effeciently by the government guided by rules and regulations and law now opened for the highest bidder enriching the few while impoverishing the many,and unbeholding to any law,and with my TAX dollars. Maximization of profits is the guiding law of capitalism, cutting cost ,results soldiers exposed to contaminated water for drinking and washing, shoddy electrical wiring resulting in injuries and death, companies like Blackwater sending out drivers without adequate direction or protection resulting in injuries and death. Blackwater a private security firm funded by tax payer dollars to protect dignataries shoots and kills by all accounts innocent Iraqi civilians causing a diplomatic nightmare and lowering OUR moral standing in the world as we are seen as "cowboys." You keep your limited government and free market fantasies and pretend that this all jives with the teaching of Jesus. I believe what thou does to the least of me he does to me. I believe in the teaching and sermon on the mont.
I am sensing some anger here. You really need to lighten up on the liberal purple kool-aid, it might be damaging your brain cells. Try using paragraphs it makes your rant much easier to read.
snoopy: Here's a dilemma for you. Either Jesus is wrong or Obama is wrong. Most Christians believe that Jesus is right.
John 14:6 (New International Version)
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Obama March 25 2008:
While answering a question about his Christian faith, Obama said he believes that Jesus Christ died for his sins and through God’s grace and mercy he could have “everlasting life,” according to the Los Angeles Times.
But he also believes Jews and Muslims and non-believers who live moral lives are as much “children of God” as he is, according to The Associated Press.
As an example, he spoke about his late mother who was “not a believer.”
"[S]he was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said, according to the Times. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."
Most Christians believe that Jesus is right.
No kidding? I would have guessed that all Christians believe Jesus is right. You really do a lot of unnecessary typing trying to hide the most ridiculous parts of your comments.
I'm wary of any poster that quotes biblical verses.
But regarding John 14:6, in a new testament class in college all I had to do was expound on that one passage to successfully complete any essay test.
Here's one that came to mind after reading rhoiberg2209's drivel:
"Jesus wept."
If “Marxist tendencies“ means helping the poor, then ALL real Democrats have marxist tendencies.