Limbaugh op-ed misrepresents reason for stimulus
SUMMARY: Echoing a Republican talking point, Rush Limbaugh asserted in a Wall Street Journal op-ed that "[t]he average recession will last five to 11 months; the average recovery will last six years. Recessions will end on their own if they're left alone." But Limbaugh's claim misses the point and misrepresents the reason for the stimulus bill. Economists take the position that an economic stimulus package is necessary, both during the recession and after the economy begins to recover.
In a January 29 Wall Street Journal op-ed criticizing President Obama's economic recovery plan and offering his own suggestions for such a plan, Rush Limbaugh echoed a Republican talking point in asserting that "[t]he average recession will last five to 11 months; the average recovery will last six years. Recessions will end on their own if they're left alone. What can make the recession worse is the wrong kind of government intervention." But Limbaugh's claim misses the point and misrepresents the reason for the stimulus bill. Even with projections that the economy will turn around, economists including Congressional Budget Office (CBO) director Douglas W. Elmendorf take the position that an economic stimulus package is necessary, both during the recession and after the economy begins to recover.
Limbaugh's suggestion that a stimulus bill isn't necessary because the economy will recover without it echoes a claim by congressional Republicans, who, as a January 28 Wall Street Journal article reported, "contend that much of the money in the package wouldn't be spent until 2011 or later, when a recovery is likely to be already under way."
In fact, in written congressional testimony, Elmendorf said that fiscal stimulus in 2011 or later would be effective in the current economic situation, in which economic output is projected to remain below its potential long after the technical beginning of the recovery. Elmendorf stated that unlike in ordinary "periods of economic weakness" that "are fairly short-lived," "CBO projects that economic output will remain significantly below its potential for several more years, so policies that provide stimulus for an extended period of time may be appropriate."
Additionally, when committee chairman John Spratt (D-SC) asked Elmendorf to comment on the length of time over which stimulus spending would occur during the January 27 Budget Committee hearing, Elmendorf said that because the "GDP gap"-- the difference between the CBO's estimates of "potential" and actual economic output -- "will persist for a number of years, fiscal stimulus, to try and narrow that gap, would be appropriate, in the minds of a wide majority of economists, for a number of years, not just in 2009 and 2010."
Further, Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moodys.com, has also predicted that even if real GDP returned to its 2008 level by 2012, unemployment would still remain over 9 percent if fiscal stimulus is not implemented. If a stimulus plan of at least $750 billion is passed, Zandi predicts that GDP will reach its 2008 level in 2010 and that unemployment will fall back to "close to 5% by late 2012." From Zandi's January 6 report:
The $750 billion stimulus plan would not forestall a sizable decline in real GDP in 2009, but it would ensure that real GDP returns to its previous peak by the second half of 2010 (see Table 3). The fiscal stimulus limits the peak-to-trough decline in jobs to some 5 million, and the unemployment rate peaks at nearly 9% in early 2010. With the stimulus, the unemployment rate falls back to its full employment rate of close to 5% by late 2012. Without the stimulus, the unemployment rate rises to well over 11% by mid-2010 and ends 2012 at over 8%, still extraordinarily high.
[...]
In his op-ed, Limbaugh also advocated cutting the corporate tax rate, which economists have said will have a relatively weak stimulative effect. Zandi predicts that for every dollar federal revenue is reduced by corporate tax cuts, there will be a corresponding increase in GDP of only 30 cents. By contrast, Zandi predicts that for every dollar spent on extending unemployment benefits, there will be a corresponding increase of $1.64 in GDP. Zandi included the following chart in July 2008 written testimony before the House Small Business Committee:

The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) has also reported that corporate tax cuts are "likely ineffective as stimulus." Citing research by the Congressional Research Service (CRS), CBPP stated:
The primary problem employers face in a recession is a shortage of demand for their products, not a shortage of cash. When firms face a shortage of demand, they will find it more attractive to retain -- or pass to shareholders -- any new cash they receive from a tax cut, rather than invest in increased production of goods and services for which no customers exist.
But passing the tax benefits to shareholders and business owners would not stimulate the economy much. Shareholders and business owners are two groups that tend to have higher incomes -- and thus to save, rather than spend, much of any additional income they receive. As CRS concluded, such a tax cut "is more likely to be spent on reducing debt, or paying out dividends. Both choices would not expand aggregate demand."
From Limbaugh's Wall Street Journal op-ed:
There's a serious debate in this country as to how best to end the recession. The average recession will last five to 11 months; the average recovery will last six years. Recessions will end on their own if they're left alone. What can make the recession worse is the wrong kind of government intervention.
I believe the wrong kind is precisely what President Barack Obama has proposed.
[...]
I say, cut the U.S. corporate tax rate -- at 35%, among the highest of all industrialized nations -- in half. Suspend the capital gains tax for a year to incentivize new investment, after which it would be reimposed at 10%. Then get out of the way! Once Wall Street starts ticking up 500 points a day, the rest of the private sector will follow. There's no reason to tell the American people their future is bleak. There's no reason, as the administration is doing, to depress their hopes. There's no reason to insist that recovery can't happen quickly, because it can.

















I'm still waiting for someone to explain how taxes have contributed to the current crisis.
If you tax the job creators, we all lose, apparently.
What L. is doing here has become the standard Republican talking point the last few days-- you hear it everywhere:
1) This recession will probably end in about a year, so,
2) That means all this stimulus money is just unnecessary and will go down the drain, right?
Of course, the possibility that it won't end unless there is a major pump-priming never enters into the debate.
Prediction: if and when the crisis ends, the Repubs and the MSM will refuse to credit the stimulus, and will paint it as a boondoggle "on our kids" or something like that.
Regardless of the success or failure of the stimulus, it is still a "boondoggle" on our kids. There's no getting around that.
At least they'll have a job to pay for it. A job that invests in a better future or our kids. Better schools, roads, bridges, energy, military. A better sense of common purpose.
I would hate to be a Republican today with all that, "you're on your own," nonsense. The Republican Party, the Limbaugh Party, if you will, are in league with with the devil. You cats are not to be taken seriously. You have no serious ideas. The only serious agenda for a better future the Republicans (Palincrats) have now is their future as a majority Party. Citizens be damned.
You should beg forgiveness for your disgusting political miscreant Party. Bruce.
What? Should we just keep cutting taxes and pray things get better soon? Should we just give more money to Wall St. and hope they create some work?
I'll take effective, activist government over this ridiculous market fundie Republican fantasy that has enabled the greatest degree of inequality the world has ever seen.
What is wrong with you rightwingers? Do you really want to see us fail?
...for our kids...
I'm on record as saying Democrats should just govern the way they see fit and ignore what Republicans are putting out there, unless of course Obama thinks it's a good idea.
Clearly the people are loking for a different tactic right now and Obama was elected bring it. Republicans don't have any power unless Democrats give it to them. I'm surprised the stimulus plan has as many tax cuts in it as it does. Is that part of the Democratic solution?
I too am surprised at the corporate tax cuts. Maybe it's a good faith effort on Obama's part. Maybe he's going to make the case to the American public that conservatism is retrorade by using the Republican recalcitrance, despite Obama's willingness to cooperate, to make it very clear the right is not dealing honestly. Maybe he's been convinced that corporate tax cuts are good for something. I'm not sure.
I don't want Democrats to govern as they see fit, I just want the Republicans to get their heads out of their *** and behave like the adults they profess themselves to be. It's going to be hard for the right for awhile, though. Liberal activists have figured something out and are testing it in, among other key states, Ohio. They have learned to use the greatest strength of the conservative movement as its weakness. They're using the rightwing radio monopoly, specifically, Rush, to make the point that Republicans want you to fail. It will be successful, they will tie Limbaugh inextricably to the Republican Party further driving the Republican Party into regional minority status.
Unless sensible folks like you and Oscar and the millions like you can organize, or get involved at the grassroots level, to push your representatives to do the right thing and reject the radicals, it could be a long time before Republicans have any credibility.
One last factor will make things tougher on the right. Elected Democrats are emboldened by Obama's willingness to cooperate and his unwillingness to capitulate. They are being pushed in a progressive direction by a tremendously focused, disciplined and organized infrastructure of citizen activists.
I think the darkest days for Republicans still lie ahead. But we'll have to wait and see.
Why would one of the most famous financial newspapers in the world allow a nitwit like Limbaugh to pontificate on how to fix the most serious financial problem since the Great Depression?
What insight does he have? It'll all work itself out eventually.
Ah, you're joking right?
The WSJ is owned by...Rupert Murdoch, owner of FauxNoise.
But even under the ownership of Dow Jones, the WSJ editorial page was divorced from reality and the facts of their own newspaper. In short, there are an awful lot of people on the neocon payroll who get space on the WSJ editorial page.
MMFA is elevating these economists to a status that they don't deserve.
Somehow disagreeing with them automatically means you are wrong, when their track records on economic predictions do not warrant that level of confidence.
Does that apply to Trickle Downers, or just Keynesians?
The Wall Street journal just did the same thing with Limbaugh.
We all know what happens when a Republican lawmaker even hints at disagreeing with him.
Who owns the WSJ? News Corp. Remember when it was said that Murdock wouldn't change the tenor of the WSJ when it was sold? This is proof positive that that is false.
Limbaugh has ZERO experience in the financial markets, has no schooling in business, what makes the expert? A radio show. He's an entertainer with a philosophy that has tanked this country in the last 8 years. Other than that I'm not sure why anyone listens to him. I do know why he has a voice... he's a mouthpiece for the superwealthy.
Regarding that 35% corporate rate, I wonder if Limbaugh knows the difference between a statutory rate and an effective rate, or looks at OECD data comparing the corporate tax receipts in various industrialized countries as a percentage of GDP (which shows the US as about average) ...
Tax cuts are the Republican solution to everything from drug addiction to the heartbreak of psoriasis.
because Democrats don't know what they want, or more to the point they really never like you to know what they want. On one hand, they say that more money in people's pockets stimulates the economy, people spend, as in food stamps or unemployment. then in the next breath they say NO, take the people's money in taxes and then let them government redistribute it back to those who they think should have it. makes no sense.
There there dear.
The targets of the the pockets recieving and the pockets of dispursing are not the same populations. Both the Stimulus Package and the tax rates are not monolithic one rule applies to everyone kinda stuff.
Sorry if that hurts your head, but if your gonna talk dum, thats the chance you take.
We don't want to tax the people, James...we just want to tax you. Wanna show me any tax hikes implemented by Barack Obama?
because he's not stupid. He knows that higher taxes is a deathnell to this economy. But if Pelosi and Co. have their way, they'll come, stick around.
Hmmm, I recall a time where the tax rate for the wealthy was around 90% and surprisingly, that period of time was called the industrial revolution. Sounds like your claim has strawman written all over it.
Why is it that Republicans are so obsesively compulsive about taxes? Are you even in such a high tax bracket that you have to be concerned? I've watched for years as regular people who don't even have the proverbial pot to pee in obsess over someone raising their taxes while high income individuals avail themselves of every tax loophole imaginable to cruise by. Rank and file Republicans don't get it and they probably never will...as long as they keep watching FOX and listening to The Entertainer, Rush Limbaugh.
Please cite an actual historical negative consequence to an actual historical tax hike. The more recent the better.
well, if that's your solution, then raise them often and alot. the more you raise them the better off we are. there is no end in sight. what exactly do you want them raised too? 90% of income, 95%?
No, he wants to know whether tax hikes ever destroyed the economy? Just one example.
Put me down for less than 90%. Your turn.
jamesb, you never have run a business have you? As a sole proprietor with 1040 Schedule C, or C corporation cofounder, I get lots more tax breaks than when i was a wage slave. Of course, it makes a difference if you're running a growth company that makes lots of investments and has write-offs, or a declining company being milked.
The Clinton years - despite higher "tax rates" were far better for me than the Reagan or Bush '41 years.
How about answering the question, dittohead? Quit yer 'woe is meeeee' whining crap and get into the game.
Wrong again, James.
"On one hand, they say that more money in people's pockets stimulates the economy, people spend, as in food stamps or unemployment."
Nope, as in higher wages.
Wages drive demand in a capitalist economy, not food stamps, unemployment or an abundance of supply.
If you're depending on food stamps or unemployment when times are tough, you're more than likely only buying what you need to get by, instead of purchasing more indulgent, bigger ticket items, splurging on entertainment, traveling, etc.
Democrats are smart enough to know this is no way to build an economy.
You're right. At least with Republicans, unless you have no sense of what's going on, you KNOW they are going to put more money in the hands of the ruling elite and lie to your face that their on your side.
Republicans. Stooges. Every last one.
Tax cuts have proven throughout history that they WORK. Giving tax cuts to people who don't pay taxes is welfare. Give them to coporations and small business helps create more jobs.
Prove it. Prove tax cuts create jobs, until you do, I'm calling you a liar.
And what's wrong with you? You think letting all the unemployed, all the working poor, you think leaving them on their own to wither on the vine will not affect you? The simple truth is that the working poor, those who make too little to justify an income tax on them, still pay taxes and work damn hard and have just as much stake in the future as any stuck up conservative elitist.
But, we're all interconnected.
Nothing exists on its own. Take for example a common table. It didn't create itself, it exists due to a complex web of nature and people. From the tree to the carpenter, to the persons who made the carpenters tools, we all work together to make each other's lives better.
You are the table.
That would be true if the stimulus package was actually a stimulus package and not a payback to all the groups who gave Obama and the Dems so much money. It's a 'you wash my back and I'll wash your's'. Why would you give millions of dollars to ACORN when they are under investigation in 12 states for VOTER FRAUD. To pay them back for helping Obama get elected. DUH!
please, post some facts showing ACORN is getting anything from this. You can't.
Exactly, don't hold your breath for any facts on this non-issue. The ACORN talking point is getting heavy play now and the dittoheads are lapping it up hungrily. This is how desperate the moron chattering class has become. They lost and they lost big-time and this is all they have left.
The local radio wingnut is still bringing up Obama's supposed lack of citizenship fer godssakes. Unfrickinbelievable. That s**t went out before the damn election!
ur.n.ignorant.troll
Don't have facts to back up your accusation? What a surprise. Here are a few. ACORN fights on behalf of working families to make progress on issues like living wage jobs, affordable housing, health care, education, and investigating the global financial crisis. The attempts to smear ACORN are linked to an organized campaign to keep low-income voters, voters of color, and young voters away from the polls. They have the support of organized labor, civil rights groups, the League of Women Voters, the National Council of La Raza, People for the American Way (check out the video), and prominent members of the community all over the country. All organizations and individuals hated by the rabid right to be sure. It is a giant leap to jump from allegations of improper behavior on the part of a few temporary employees to "voter fraud" and such charges are transparent instances of voter supression. Want to investigate some allegations that have merit? How about looking at Ted Stevens, John Doolittle (retired), Tom Feeney (you do remember Jack Abramoff don't you?), Jerry Lewis, Gary Miller, Tim Murphy, Rick Renzi, or Don Young--well you get the picture. Are there Democrats on this list? Yeah--more than there should be. But you surely see the investigation, indictments, and convictions on this list are reality based--not tied in with some scheme to distract us from real crimes, and deprive legally registered voters of their rights. Oh never mind--you don't and you never will. Do you think Bernie Sanders will get his way with regard to his suggested investigation of the [perhaps] criminal roots of the current financial crisis? Will Beck, Limbaugh, O'Reilly or Boortz be leading the charge to back such an investigation? Here is my bet--No!. His idea barely created a ripple in yesterday's news cycle. But ACORN--there is something the right can sink its teeth into. Why? It's a distraction, it's baseless, it serves the cause of voter supression which has evidently become their cause, and they believe the best defense is a bloated offense.
In 1999, when the economy was great (under Clinton) the RWnuts said reducing taxes was the answer. The RWnuts refused to raise taxes in time of war. Their advice was for us to just go shopping. Ten years later, the economy is in a death spiral and the RWnuts say reducing taxes is the way to go.
Is there any time, place or situation the RWnuts don't think reducing taxes is the way to go?
Limpface refuses to acknowlege the reason for the stymulus is his hero GW Bush raping the treasury for eight years and the electorate had to put someone in with some cajones ( Obama )
If the Wall Street Journal had conservative bias, it would have printed an op-ed from a conservative who isn't wrong all the time, to make them look better.
Asking us to listen to the voice of abject failure is just embarrassing.
And today they also printed an op-ed piece by John Yoo who didn't even know that the Army Field Manual, his supposed area of expertise, allowed Good Cop/Bad Interrogation. The Wall Street Journal obviously cares little about accuracy.
the methodology of throwing spitballs up the wall and see if it sticks works well for it takes time to research such spitballs and coherently reply to such claims. It is important to have many different news sources rather than rely on one alone.
As much as I disagree with Limbaugh's tactics, I think lowering taxes - temporarily may not be such a bad thing. If you look at the details of the spending part of it, there certainly seems to be quite a bit of "rescue" type funds, e.g. unemployment, tuition credits, etc. To me, a biologist / layperson, it seems that the direct economic stimulus could be more substantive.
I can't believe the power this guy has garnered. I guess if you are overly vocal, havea radio show and are a master at propaganda, people become intimidated by you.
Isn't it amazing how the Republican party has self destructed! And now Sarah Palin is going to be their savior! Ironically, the Limbaugh tactics may be a big reason why the r'pubs are in the toidy.
I can not believe that learned men of ALL persuasions are letting a "Blow-Hard" Radio dude with NO formal training dictate to them! I was just out done with that one idiot politicin that went grovelling to Limbaugh, a convicted drug dealer...What is the Republican party coming to???
Listening to Limbaugh talk about anything and expecting him to be logical, coherent, or informed makes about as much sense as expecting a plate of fried maggots to defeat Viswanathan Anand using the Allgaier Kieseritzky Gambit.
I know when ever this happens to me, I retreat to the bunker and from cut out newspaper letters to construct the offer to my opponet or tax accountant (I get them mixed up so often) my never fail gambit,"Go Fish."
"Go Fish."!?
That gambit, of course, will scare tha maggots and give Anand an advantage he doesn't really need. They might as well start the game a rook and a bishop down. But you may have solved a bit of a mystery here. I think Limbaugh's talking points script may actually be constructed from cut-up newspaper letters pasted onto cardboard by a drunken Karl Rove waiting in his undisclosed location to hear how his attorneys plan to handle his subpoena. I'm also pretty sure the maggots fit into the scenario somehow (maybe they want a tax cut too).
"I was just out done with that one idiot politicin that went grovelling to Limbaugh, a convicted drug dealer..."
The symbol of the GOP - a thrice divorced, drug addicted, money laundering, college drop out, sex tourist?