Limbaugh falsely claimed homeless woman at Obama town hall asked for a "car" and a "new kitchen"
Please upgrade your flash player. The video for this item requires a newer version of Flash Player. If you are unable to install flash you can download a QuickTime version of the video.
SUMMARY: Rush Limbaugh falsely claimed that a homeless woman at President Obama's Fort Myers town hall event asked Obama for a "car" and "a new kitchen." In fact, Henrietta Hughes was simply saying that she needs housing. She stated: "[W]e need something more than a vehicle and parks to go to. We need our own kitchen and our own bathroom. Please help."
Discussing President Obama's February 10 town hall event in Fort Myers, Florida, Rush Limbaugh falsely claimed that a homeless woman at the event asked Obama for a "car" and a "new kitchen." In fact, the woman, Henrietta Hughes, was simply saying that she needs housing. She stated: "I have an urgent need -- unemployment and homelessness, a very small vehicle for my family and I to live in. We need urgent, and the housing authority have two years waiting on this, and we need something more than a vehicle and parks to go to. We need our own kitchen and our own bathroom. Please help."
During the February 10 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, Limbaugh said, "There's another bite coming up here -- a crying woman named Henrietta asks Obama for a car, for a new kitchen, and a bathroom." Limbaugh went on to assert: "Obama tells her to talk to his staff after the town hall. She asks for a car, a kitchen, and a bathroom."
Before airing an audio clip of Hughes at the town hall, Limbaugh stated: "I mean, as an American, this is embarrassing, and it's sad, but there's a reason why -- there's a reason why this woman takes her one chance to talk to the president of the United States and ask and beg for a car and a kitchen."
Moments after airing the clip, Limbaugh stated: "Do you hear the applause when the woman says she needed a car, a new vehicle, a new house?"
Later in the show, Limbaugh said Hughes was "the woman in Fort Myers that wants the house, the car, and the kitchen."
Limbaugh also highlighted (subscription required) his comments on his website, RushLimbaugh.com, under the headline "Americans Beg Their President for Free Stuff at Town Hall Meeting."
From the February 10 broadcast of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show:
LIMBAUGH: There's another bite coming up here -- a crying woman named Henrietta asks Obama for a car, for a new kitchen, and a bathroom. I am not -- I am not kidding. "We need our own kitchen and our own bathroom. Please help." And Obama says, "Well, what is your name?" And she says, "It's Henrietta Hughes." And Obama tells her to talk to his staff after the town hall. She asks for a car, a kitchen, and a bathroom.
These are the people -- I'm telling you, we saw what we saw last night. These people saw -- if they watched this press conference -- they saw a guy who, in their eyes, only cares about getting them a job. That's -- I don't care about anything else. Or getting them a kitchen or a car. And his own brother doesn't even -- he's not even bought his brother a pot.
[...]
LIMBAUGH: OK. So this crowd, all they want is a kitchen. You know, all they want is a car and he's talking about their medical records being computerized and hiring -- can you imagine most of the people in this crowd: "What's IT? What does he mean IT?" If you're just now leaving the town meeting night and you're listening, IT is information technology. He's going to go out and hire a bunch of keypunchers to enter the data into the national computerized health care database, your health records.
All right, here's the woman. It's really sad. I mean, as an American, this is embarrassing, and it's sad, but there's a reason why -- there's a reason why this woman takes her one chance to talk to the president of the United States and ask and beg for a car and a kitchen.
[begin audio clip]
HUGHES: I respect you and I'm so grateful for you.
OBAMA: Thank you.
HUGHES: Been praying for you. But --
OBAMA: I believe in prayer, so I appreciate that.
HUGHES: I have an urgent need -- unemployment and homelessness, a very small vehicle for my family and I to live in. We need urgent, and the housing authority have two years waiting on this, and we need something more than a vehicle and parks to go to. We need our own kitchen and our own bathroom. Please help.
OBAMA: Well, I -- listen, I -- what's your name? What's your name?
HUGHES: It's Henrietta Hughes.
OBAMA: OK, Ms. Hughes, well, we're going to do everything we can to help you, but there are a lot of people like you. We're going to do everything we can, all right? But the -- I'll have my staff talk to you after this -- after the town hall, all right?
[end video clip]
LIMBAUGH: Do you think that the people who chose these people to ask questions on the Obama staff might have jobs right now? Did they purposely select these people for these questions? Do you think so? If they didn't, then some heads are going to roll. If they did purposely scour that crowd for these kinds of questions -- and there was more than just this one, so you have to assume this is what they wanted -- they want people looking at Obama this way. "Well, OK, going to do everything we can to help you; a lot of people in your position; lot of people; well, we can help you; have you talk to staff after the town hall."
Do you hear the applause when the woman says she needed a car, a new vehicle, a new house? "Yeah." And when Obama, "A lot of people like you." "Yeah." So we can sit here all day long and we can wax eloquent about how this guy comes off and how he's just wandering aimlessly, incoherent, but these people watching him last night, listening today, they think he's going to get them a job. Here -- here's the guy I told you about, an unidentified guy who wants his full salary to be made up in unemployment compensation.
[...]
LIMBAUGH: I asked the staff a moment ago a little trick question: Henrietta Hughes. She's the woman in Fort Myers that wants the house, the car, and the kitchen. And everybody thinks, "Well, it's the last we'll hear of Henrietta Hughes."
No, it's not. I will bet you that inside of two weeks, Henrietta Hughes will be on Oprah, at which time she will get all of that stuff. Oprah's company will buy it, Oprah and Obama will share the credit, and we will see how the new America works together to solve problems. And then we will be told, "All you have to do is ask."
oh good one mmfa, the woman only asked for a new kitchen, not a new car. great catch there.
She was desperate. Hopefully you'll never be in that situation. Where the f-ck is your soul?
i wasn't talking about her, i am talking about mmfa's correction of Limbaugh.
James-
If you could read or listen, you'd know that the woman asked for 'our own kitchen' not a 'new kitchen'. She's not one of the rich people begging the government for tax cuts so she can re-model her kitchen.
i wasn't talking about her, i am talking about mmfa's correction of Limbaugh.
James, what exactly were you saying about MMFA's correction of Limbo's comments?
LIMBAUGH: There's another bite coming up here -- a crying woman named Henrietta asks Obama for a car, for a new kitchen, and a bathroom. I am not -- I am not kidding.
She didn't ask for a new kitchen, since SHE'S LIVING IN HER CAR! She didn't ask for a new bathroom! She didn't ask for a new car, she simply said HER CAR WAS TOO SMALL FOR HER FAMILY TO CONTINUE TO LIVE IN!
Limbo, once again LIED! Not only did he lie, he thought is was "good radio" to joke AND lie about a woman who'd fallen on hard times!
THIS is the face of the Republican party? Are you proud?
You just said it, pearlene, "THIS is the face of the Republican party..." EXACTLY! in a way, I am glad that ol' Rutt Limpball is on the air. He is bringing to the fore that FACE. Maybe more people will become aware of the "soul" of the right-wing nuts in the GOP. Not all Republicans are lacking in a soul. It would be a mistake to characterize the whole party as Limbaughesque. The GOP has not made a serious effort to distance themselves from his idiotic and cruel tirades.
mmfa's correction of limbaugh was totally accurate. she's living in a car with her family, they are using public parks for restrooms and she wants a kitchen to prepare food, not a new one, just a kitchen. i guess it's time for rush to get those hearing implants redone. you know, the ones he needed because he did too much oxycontin and made himself deaf, which is a side effect of abusing it. and then when he did, mr. "i'll always be honest with you" didn't say a word about it, they just had a person typing out the caller's words for him to respond to. and then howard stern mentioned one day that his dad was listening to rush and said there was something wrong with him, and then a couple days later rush comes out with this story about he went deaf from some mysterious autoimmune disease that his doctors couldn't figure out. so it was all this great outpouring of sympathey for poor rush, and then later it comes out that he had multiple prescriptions for oxycontin, and that was almost certainly the cause of his deafness.
sympathy
She said she needed these things in the context of her being homeless and living out of a car after her son was laid off from his job. I do not believe she had a Sears Catalog highlighting each appliance she needed. It was a broad statement reflective of her current situation. Only cold hearted, selfish folks that would only vote Republican try to make hay of her situation by bad mouthing her.
King, I think jamesB is a total moron when it comes to life. Now that his Drug Addicted messiah Rush is over, he has things in his limted brain which he can now spout. I also believe he is just another TrailerTrash Republican who needs people worse off than himself to feel good about his own life. But, he should never be asked to leave MMFA...it is right to be what he is. And when you asked about his soul, he probably looked at the bottom of his feet, snickered and thought to himself, they are right here you dumb librul. jamesB, I think this is the first time I've ever said anything crude to you but you should know, I meant every word.
good for you, i hope it made you feel better.
I never feel bad so it didn't do anything. It is called honesty..try it you might like,,nah, you won't understand it so forget it. You are perfect for this website as you are.
Are you suggesting that you post to feel better??
asked for a new kitchen
Since you're in a parsing mood, if you read more carefully, she was asking for A kitchen, not a NEW kitchen.
oh, a used kitchen, that's better.
But then , you weren't talking about her.
Exactly. Unbelievable how heartless (and contradictory) some can be.
It must be awful to be you. You apparently don't listen any better than Rush. She didn't ask for a new kitchen (or a used one, for that matter); she asked for a place to live, so she doesn't have to live in her freakin' CAR, so she can actually have access to A kitchen and A bathroom. You can't exactly cook in your car, and it doesn't make a very good bathroom. What is it with conservatives and their hearing? This is CONSTANTLY happening, where plain English is misheard and misreported. It was rampant during the campaign. Rush, at least, sort of has an excuse. Didn't he have some sort of actual hearing loss from all his drugging?
Rush has legitimate hearing problems brought about by his abuse of Oxycotin. I guess this article is confirmation that he's back abusing drugs since he didn't heard what the woman actually said. I wonder what James' excuse is.
The whole thing is pretty odd. If Limbaugh hadn't run the audio clip, I'd say it was intentional misinformation. But the audio makes it clear that Hughes is homeless. If Limbaugh is trying to fool people by saying "new kitchen" (as if she has a kitchen that needs remodeling or something), then why run the audio?
Hearing loss seems to be the most logical explanation. Either that or he's just spinning this without even thinking about it at all. It's hard to imagine it's conscious behavior, because it makes him look like an idiot.
When Al Franken had his radio show he had his friend on as his "resident dittohead". Regularly, Franken would play these types of clips to him and ask him to defend Rush. He would inevitably admit that Rush was "exaggerating" but inevitably would defend him with a statement starting with, "Rush's real point was...". This seems to be a common affliction of Rushbots.
I used to listn to Franken's show when he had the banjo playing friend on who would inevitably defend some stupidity Rush was blathering. I have a friend in California who's a ditto head and she does the same thing. Whatever Rush says, she's buys as gospel and has a ready defense. And I swear she isn't stupid. But it makes you wonder how some people can listen to this and not say Hmmmn? at least once in a while. Frickin' amazing.
Thanks, val. Good post. I very much doubt that jamesB, or people like him, feel bad about anything, except the fear, the TERROR, that someone might get help at a time when their lives are at the lowest point imaginable. "They DESERVE to be poor! Let 'em just go away." I somehow can't relate to Rush, with his $33 million dollar salary, even knowing where HIS kitchen IS. That's THIRTY-THREE MILLION DOLLARS! Here's a woman, living in a CAR, with NO kitchen, and NO bathroom. If Limpball did not have an obscene salary, he would be living in a box under a bridge. The only other thing he is qualified to do is, perhaps, teach a dancing course at the Y.
Right. People with no kitchen and kids to feed shouldn't ask for help when we need so much money to bail out the banks. How terrible of them to do that.
jamesb, do you understand that the woman is homeless and living out of her car? She is asking for housing because she is saying she needs a kitchen and a bathroom. Are you really this thick or are you so blinded by Rush that you feel you have to obnoxiously make excuses for his distortion and lies? She is saying she needs employment. What Rush did was deceive his audience.
Actually, she was asking for Obama to get the economy going and get her back to work. She was pointing out what she lost in the bad economy. As usual the right are lying.
James, you are disgusting. This poor lady has lost everything.
please tell me jlyons where I dumped on this woman? my response to fogleghorn was in reply to his ridiculous parsing, not her. tell me please.
Hey, you started it. I just gave you a taste of your own tactic. Didn't like it too much, huh?
May you lose everything YOU have in the near future. Your job, house, money, savings... I hope you do. You deserve it for mocking those who HAVE had this happen to them. You deserve it for JUDGING those who's shoes you have never walked in. You've earned this by taking what you have for granted.
James. Maybe you couldn't understand the lady. She is homeless. Her family lives in a small car. All they have is the car and parks to live at. She needs a kitchen and a bathroom because she does not have one. The housing authority has a two year waiting list for a HOME. So yes. Rush got it wrong. I guess being homeless in a car isn't desprate enough for you. Maybe you should try it for a week with your family to see what it's like.
Let's take your's and pigboy's money and give her both.
You're scum and so is Limbaugh. I heard the original broadcast on NPR. They played the tape. Anyone who would interpret what transpired the cynical way that Rush, and apparently you, did will have a special place in hell reserved for them.
Mocking the trials of someone who lives in there car, from the view on top of the ivory tower. Scum. That's the only word that can describe someone who could think this way, and engage in such behavior.
We have problems that will never be solved peacefully if compassionless bastards like Limbaugh keep dumping on the poor.
What is this guys problem?
I totally see Rush's point. My boss is always loitering around asking me for stuff too. No initiative, that guy.
Do those 8 bank executives get paid for taking the day off today? They don't ask for kitchens or homes...they want 80 story skyscrapers and private jets. And they got them.
I think your problem is that you've patronized him for so long that he's dependent on you now.
I wouldn't pretend to try to solve your problems for you, but the first thing that came to my mind was "teach the man to fish". Once he finds the joy and self-respect inherent in providing for onesself, he may not need you any more.
Hey Neon, I hear that WorrierKing has a bootstrap shop. Maybe the colonel could purchase the poor dude a pair of those bad boys.
Special discounts are available to all MMFA regulars.
But only if you act before 10 PM Eastern time today.
Remember this deal expires at 10 PM, so don't delay.
Operators are available to take your calls.
"Operators are available to take your calls."
I called, but couldn't understand the "menu".
'Please, sir, I want some more.'
The master was a fat, healthy man; but he turned very pale. He gazed in stupefied astonishment on the small rebel for some seconds, and then clung for support to the copper. The assistants were paralysed with wonder; the boys with fear.
'What!' said the master at length, in a faint voice.
'Please, sir,' replied Oliver, 'I want some more.'
The master aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arm; and shrieked aloud for the beadle.
The board were sitting in solemn conclave, when Mr. Bumble rushed into the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentleman in the high chair, said,
'Mr. Limbkins, I beg your pardon, sir! Oliver Twist has asked for more!'
There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.
'For more!' said Mr. Limbkins. 'Compose yourself, Bumble, and answer me distinctly. Do I understand that he asked for more, after he had eaten the supper allotted by the dietary?'
'He did, sir,' replied Bumble.
'That boy will be hung,' said the gentleman in the white waistcoat. 'I know that boy will be hung.'
I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.
Swift! Nice one, Blueneck!
I think Limbaugh would like individual support to come from the Church and the community instead of the federal government, if they need support at all. And I can understand where that comes from - the former are volunteer-based while the latter is expectational-based. Under an expectational-based system, there are people who don't want to help, or can't help (and they do have that option in a free society), but under a volunteer-based system, the people who help want to help. When someone needs something and they go to the Church/community for help, they raise any resources they don't have using donations from willing people. When someone goes to the government for help, the government uses the power of law to raise those resources from people, whether those people want to or not.
Now, I think everyone should have a place to live and have food on the table, and this is something that the FairTax addresses with the "prebate" that is designed to provide families with the money to get a home/apartment, food, and clothes. Sure - they would be basic level, but it's better than nothing. If you want more money for a better lifestyle, you then have to earn more money from a better paying job. This is what's called "provid[ing] for the common welfare." If you need necessary resources, they're there, but it's to be used with efficiency, not abused with luxury.
... this is one of those things where I'm "either way" - I can understand where both sides are coming from with this.
Get back to us about those "better paying jobs" when you're out in the work force, competing against thousands of others qualified for the same job.
Theories are great but they're just that theories. The real world had become a cold, hard place.
People like Limbaugh pit those who should be banding together against each other to protect his class from those in need. It's been happening throughout our history.
Who are these masses who abuse government help as a luxury and why do conservatives always use them as the cover models for all poor people?
Given the chance, I think many of the poor and unemployed would welcome the chance to earn their "basic level" by working.
I think Limbaugh would like individual support to come from the Church and the community instead of the federal government, if they need support at all.
Churches are supported BY communities.
Where will the help come from when the community has 9% unemployment, cutting the amount of funds given to the community church?
Here in the real world, churches, food banks and other organizations are hurting due to the lack of community support. Support came from folks who had jobs and the ability to give to charities. Support which has been severely cut due to 9% unemployment!
Nice, DAWUSS. Explain your ideas to the lady living in her car. Maybe then she won't feel so bad.
princessoftires,
I don't know of how Rush started his career with a great marketing ploy, but now he can pretty much set his price to be on the radio.
As for Henrietta, let her know that there is an opening at a local McDonald's in Ft. Myers now that the guy wanting another job got one with a Ft. Myers baseball team. She doesn't need to wait 2 years for housing!
PS By the way flats, I heard that on Quinn and Rose this am!
Maybe Henrietta is trying to have great success in feeding her children. This could be her great marketing ploy to get them fed and a roof over their head. If she has a chance to do it, I would consider that equal to Rush.
And Rush also set his price on the illegal drugs he purchased while doing Public Service spots on his own show such as 'if you buy illegal drugs, you are helping the terrorists'. I am sure you remember that little twist. I wonder what a Conservative would have told these two. Wait, they would not be allowed at one of those meetings.
Give my best to Jimmy the Unrepentent Sexual Harrasser and the Phony Christian Radio Rose. She probably got sick listening to Henrietta begging for help. I am sure all good Christians felt the same. Now, be honest, what did Phony Rosie have to say? I haven't listened to them in about a month. Which of the 11 stations do you hear them on..
exactamundo queenofbridgestones!
It was a ploy by both if you define a ploy as something you have to do improve your situation. Problem is with Henreitta, the ploy is never-ending because so many in our country have no inclination to do things for themselves. Thanks to policies and the values behind them, that make people believe that they need ongoing government handouts to improve their situation, they are unable to see how those policies enslave them.
Their comments were heard by me as I listened on a radio station that had been an air amerika affiliate, one of the 11 now that don't have losers no one wants to listen to, on their airwaves!
Way to go Stillers! Take care of those ribs Ben!
"Problem is with Henreitta, the ploy is never-ending because so many in our country have no inclination to do things for themselves. "
Like who? Who are they? Where are they? Are they the ones standing in lines at job fairs? Are they the hundreds of people standing in line at a recently opened automotive plant hoping to make the cut?
Is Henrietta one of the people who lacks inclination? Other than what she told Obama, what do you really know about her?
Rock592,
That she has been waiting 2 years for free housing.....
"As for Henrietta, let her know that there is an opening at a local McDonald's in Ft. Myers now that the guy wanting another job got one with a Ft. Myers baseball team. She doesn't need to wait 2 years for housing!"
I have more questions for you to ignore...
How many applications have been turned in for those jobs? How many people is Henrietta competing with?
How do Quinn and Rose know that Henrietta hasn't looked for work?
And how, exactly, do you know this? Is she waiting for free or subsidized housing? And she did NOT say that she has been waiting for two years, but that there is a two-year waiting list. Do you think that she and her family have been living in their car for two years waiting for "free" housing? Many, many Americans are two or three paychecks away from homelessness. You don't know anything about her circumstance prior to this. Careful, man -- karma has a way of biting one on the @$$.
Pete592....
You asking notsoproudCONservative to answer a question that is way over his head...
That's why he's defending Rush'd stance instead of trying to get to the bottom of what Henrietta is all about...
It's all based on a three minute exchange... and Rush of course knows this lady well enough to make these sick claims against her...
I wonder if Rush would have the cajones to have her on his show to interview her? Or take the time to get to know her... to find out why she's in the position she's in?
Of course, I won't hold my breathe on that
You make some well-Rushtisized comment about Henrietta but no comment on your messiahs hypocracy concerning the drug ads. And what did your phony Christian have to say? I'm sure she couldn't keep her mouth shut. You always seem to skip-over things O'Proud One.
P.S. Henrietta wants to feed her family and you do not know anything about her past...Rush wanted power. the problem with Rush is the he became a lying, drug infected hypocrite. I guess he succeeded in the proud conservative world.
The only context Rush has is Oxycontext.
Oprah and Obama will share the credit, and we will see how the new America works together to solve problems. And then we will be told, "All you have to do is ask."
This last sentence of the transcript explains the reasons behind his statements. If you want to understand the narrative, you must recognize that sentiment. It is a form of idealism, blown to outrageous limits, and carried over a cliff.
Rush, you don't want other people to get a piece of the pie, right? You just want yourself to have nice things, so you can sit your fat ass on your pathetic show and boast about your golden microphone and your big-screen TV and your private planes and all the other things you own.
And that is why you're out of touch with the American people, you fat bastard.
How can any human being with a shred of common decency follow this guy?
None of them do..Shows a lot about his sheep.
You're asking too much, Irony. The very concept of "common decency" is lost on such slugs, not only Rush, by the way. Just reading some of the attempts at defending Limbaugh makes my blood turn cold. I have known many people who have been driven to the depths of despair by joblessness, greedy landlords, and the merciless IRS. A lack of health insurance can destroy a family in a matter of weeks. What fails to register with the smug and affluent citizens is that not all of us can be lawyers, hedge-fund managers, or trust-fund babies.
And remember, all those foreclosures are because people bought houses they couldn't afford (my "favorite" right-wing lie).
Rush does this crap all the time. He plays an audio clip for his drooling sycophants, then lies through his teeth about what they just heard.
And, as two of his fans have demonstrated here, they never catch on.
He was making a point that people in this country now feel a sense of entitlement. That if they want something and they can't afford it that the government should give it to them. That you can be lazy and worthless, but it doesn't matter because the government will save you. You are focusing on this one lady and missing the big picture. Sure, there are people who legitametly come under hard times and all they want to do is find a job so they can start making money again. Sure, there are homeless people who don't want to be homeless and are willing to work but can't catch a break. There always will be these types of people, no matter how many jobs Obama creates. But the big picture is that people are beginning to depend on the government to be their savior and hard work ethic and entrepreneurialism is slowly dying. That was his point. He thrives on making controversial remarks like these to make his point because he knows it will irritate people like you and it will get him a spot on forums like these.
Then why can't he just say that? I mean, does he know the circumstances around this woman's situation? I'm guessing not. She does state that she's on a waiting list for housing. That seems like she's playing by the rules. It's just that there is two year waiting list.
And when he says this...
LIMBAUGH: Do you think that the people who chose these people to ask questions on the Obama staff might have jobs right now? Did they purposely select these people for these questions? Do you think so? If they didn't, then some heads are going to roll. If they did purposely scour that crowd for these kinds of questions -- and there was more than just this one, so you have to assume this is what they wanted -- they want people looking at Obama this way.
I'm surprised his head didn't explode. It was W that pre-screened his audiences and demanded they sign loyalty oaths or some such. Project much, The Entertainer Rush?
The big picture is that wealth has been flowing one way, UP. The middle class is shrinking and more are living near or below the poverty level.
And once again, those on the top have gotten more wealth that isn't being used to provide jobs, but the right still parades out the old tune about the rich creating more jobs and everyone paying less taxes as we fight two wars and try to avoid global war.
Your side had the power and failed, miserably. You've ruined the economy,our military and our reputation.
It's time to sit down and STFU!
Bravo King....The Cons and Republicans are still crying like little babies since the people realized their stupidity in running a country called America. These oafs got crushed in 2006 and 2008. They had there chance and look where we are. The "Lost 8/10's of a Decade", a Cons-Repo Production. And now they want to still run things. Get in line, quit crying and try again in 2010. And Obama was right, WE WON.
Idea for a business...A Republican crying towel featuring the faces of Bush, Cheney, Rove and ProudConservative and the flip side. Proud, we can split the profits..although you should pay the taxes, not me.
ProudConservatiive ON the flipside
Maybe its just me, but I find it sickening that a multimillionaire liar like Rush gets a standing ovation from his dittobots for beating down an old woman who lives in her car.
Rush, the Troglodyte's champion.
Is that what we've become? That's the America we're supposed to be proud of?
I'm starting to fear for the future of this country.
Nerz. and king isn't it ridiculous? This millionaire 'fat" cat blasting on a middle-age black woman with kids living in a car and all she asks for is bathroom and kitcheen? They talk about waste and spending but didn't seem to care when $9 billion went missing in Iraq and couldn't be accounted for! These same people howl against CEO's taking pay cuts yet blamed the salaries of UAW members for the collaspe of the automakers, and then they have the chutzpah to tout about how much they love workers, they vote against family leave pay,sick-day pay,and tout out peurile images of Bob the baker, joe the plumber when they vote against anything that will support real plumbers, bakers and other workers.
It sure is ridiculous Congero. The real plumbers and bakers and everyone who works for a living has to wake up and see that once again they're allowing the wealthy to divide and conquer the middle class.
Class-envy. The calling-card of the democrat party. Aren't you tired of that argument yet? People with wealth don't owe anyone anything. Their job is to advance their companies for the benefit of their shareholders. Usually when the company advances, more jobs are created. You have the exact mind-frame that Rush was bashing. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Guess what, some people have more money that others. Deal with it. If you want more money than work harder or go back to school and make something more of yourself. Finally, the next time your democrat president has to deal with one of the most serious terrorist attacks in history; multiple unprecedented natural disasters; and a war, then you can make comparisons. Oh yea, and I forgot that the economy failed while democrats controlled congress and was primarily based on faulty mortgage loan requirements that were championed by democrats.
jpeagle, you are getting dumber. Keep going...I believe we've heard all of the tripe before from the Cons. Hint: There are some rich Democrats also. That part of your talking point fails. More, more before dinner.
Obviously, Beagle has never heard of a place called Hollywood.
Beagle's also never heard of a place called Reality.
You are such a nut. It is not "class-envy" to believe that the richest country in the world should not have people living in their cars and infant mortality rates in inner cities that rival third world nations.
I grew up extremely privileged. The people I know who say "gimme, gimme, gimme" the most? Trust fund babies. With my inheritance I could blockade myself from the minions in a walled compound (ala many South American cities) but that's not the world I want to live in.
Interesting talking points, but we're actually in TWO wars, at least one of which was engaged in by the President's own choice.
Nut? Maybe. "Selfish Prick" is likely more accurate.
Well, you just told me everything I nee to know about you. Born privledged.....never has to work. Loking for a purpose in life by trying to "save" everybody. How much of your wealth have you donated to help the less fortunate?
Actually, I do work. Have since I was 14. My father kept the heat in the house at 58 and taught me nothing in life is free. And I'm currently not rich (my father is still alive, so the inheritance is in the wings), most of my money currently comes from my husband's Sergeant's pay. It's not much, but we try to give to Fisher House and other worthy organizations as often as we can.
Rich people with a conscience (Democratic politicians) are certainly better than rich people without one (Republican politicians). People of priveledge that have empathy should be lauded for their ability to look beyond self-interest and care about those who are less fortunate. Those rich folks that stick to their base greed and selfishness deserve all the derision they are currently receiving.
And every inference you made was wrong. That tells me everything I "nee" to know about you, too.
"People with wealth don't owe anyone anything"
Of course not; they miracled that money into existence, without any help from anybody.
Thy made that money by giving people jobs and having them perform the work. You know, he very jobs that Obama is trying to "create". Yet, they get bashed because they have more money than you. When was the last time you got a job from a poor person?
....or they inherited it....or they got rich by moving money around. Labor creates wealth in this country; always has always will.
"Labor creates wealth in this country; always has always will." Amen brother!
Thy made that money by giving people jobs and having them perform the work (Jpeegle)
Wow, just "giving" people jobs and "having people perform the work"? It sounds like those lazy workers just had everything done for them by that take-charge rich feller.
Seriously, do you realize what a dittozombie you sound like using ridiculous phrases like that?
.
Or from Daddy's bailouts after having run baseball teams and oil companies into the ground. Or by stealing from people like Simon Wiesenthal and hundreds of others. Or by selling loads of s*** over the airwaves to people too dense to differentiate between an entertainer and a political analyst.
"Usually when the company advances, more jobs are created."
In China, India, and Mexico. Then they'll shelter money in off-shore havens to lower their taxes. A few of them may even move their headquarters to a place like Dubai to avoid taxes altogether. Then conservatives hoist them up and hail them as true patriots who epidomize the American entrepenurial spirit.
Oh yea, and I forgot that the economy failed while democrats controlled congress and was primarily based on faulty mortgage loan requirements that were championed by democrats. jpe...
That is an outright lie.
Gimme, gimme, gimme. jpe...
Oh, and corps don't have their hand out?
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Corporate_fraud_run_amok_FBI_investigating_0211.html
Already made something of myself pal. And I'm dealing with it pretty nicely, thank you.
It's only class warfare when it's those damned poor people asking for more, not when it's the wealthy demanding tax cuts. What scum like Limbaugh don't recognize is that wealth isn't created in a vacuum. Wealth is usually made on someone else's labor.
Cretins, such as yourself, love to boast about the greatness of the American Way. The glorious free market, opportunity for everyone.
I live in the real world and in the real world there is no utopian free market capitalism. there is labor and capital and they're always in balance during good times. When the balance shifts, the economy and those on it's lowest rungs suffer the most.
We've witnessed one of the largest shifts in balance in our history. We have the wealthy promoting war and tax cuts. We've never cut taxes during wartime until now. And the funny thing is those who scream the loudest for war and tax cuts have themselves usually not had the pleasure to serve during wartime and also have never been lucky enough to have hit hard times.
Experience life and then get back to us about your theories. And some day in the near future, when what passes for your wealth disappears overnight, thank your free market and the unregulated gods of Capital.
If it's class warfare, who fired the first shot? Have them answer that question.
If my wealth disappears it won't be because of free markets, it will be because the government forced all big business away with higher taxes and "stranglehold" regulation. It will be because of the higher taxes I will have to pay to support this massive bailout of borrowed money. These thngs you can't get yourself out of with hard work and determination. That, frankly, is terrifying.
If your wealth disappears because of taxes or regulation, even the dreaded "stranglehold" regulation, you never deserved to be in business in the first place.
If you don't mind me asking, what sort of business are you pretending to be in?
He sounds like "Joe the Plumber's" imaginary partner.
You are mistaken, jpeagle21, it isn't class-envy. It's class-revulsion. I have no quarrel with people making lots of money. I do take exception to their wealth being obtained on the backs of their workers and the "deals" whereby they can still make a fortune when they fail. If a worker "fails", he is fired. The rules are very different for the "peasants" and the "nobles".
Hey Einstein Beagle - the "democrat party?" And "democrat president?"
Wow. You have the language and capitalization skills of, oh, I dunno, perhaps an illegal immigrant. Simpleton.
So where would someone living in a small car get the money to go back to school? One thing no conservative I've ever whipped in a debate has understood is that an individual is like a small business. The cost of having a job - food, shelter, health care, transportation, etc., must be less than income from that job. Otherwise, one would quickly go broke (assuming some capital to get started on). Why is that beyond the understanding of self-professed capitalists? Seems simple enough to me, but then, I'm a liberal.
"There always will be these types of people, no matter how many jobs Obama creates."
Yes, and there will always be callous, selfish, self-righteous condescending douchebags like you and Rush to lecture the desperate and hopeless about their moral failings.
perfectly stated.
say hi to tommy for me.
if you're comparing me to Tommy or saying I am him, I am flattered.
You're not fit to lick Tommy's boot.
I second that. Tommy at least had a heart. Okay, most of the time. Hi Tommy. We miss you! Even me!
if you're comparing me to Tommy or saying I am him, I am flattered.
I bet you are.
Only brainless twits would only fall for this line of Rush Limpballs illogic.... sorta like.... jamesB amd notsoproudCONservative!
There is an old saying and its so true... one might think that conservatives of all kinds would live by this....
"That the true wealth of a nation and its people is measured by the way it treats its weakest and neediest among it!"
PS... beats me who said it or if it ever was.... I think I heard it once...either way, it should be a saying that gives American patriotism new definition?
i mean this is too easy right? I don't listen to him much, frankly, can't stomach the stuff, but this is too easy to refute, right! I think this is part of a strategy of the conservatives to smear the stimulus bill as being a social "welfare" spending bill. Just look at how the word "welfare" has reappeared and is being thrown around by conservative lawmakers. Rush smear of this defenseless woman goes hand in hand with the conservative lies and misinformation that try to paint this bill as-----ready for it-- as the usual DEMOCRATIC pet projects. See Rush can ridicule this women to his listeners because they already heard the dog-whistle-- WELFARE!!!!!, and they howl back obediently ,"pork pork... spending bill...why should my money go to welfare etc.etc.etc..." Just look at the conservative posters here who despite all evidence still howl about ACORN getting stimulus money, or how the healthcare spending is 'socialist"?????, or any of the non-sense they repeat from their masters.
Bush held a meeting and over 4000 soldiers are dead. Turned into a slaughter of innocents also. Shall we keep this up or end it right here.
Please don't bring this up. You're making yourself look......um, not smart. Bush didn't send anyone to war. There was a vote to go to war, remember....a congressional vote. And, please don't bring up that the reasons to go to war were built on lies, because Bush saw the same intelligence that everyone else saw and just about everyone was ready to go after these killers after 911. Second, the last time I checked the military was voluntary. No one is forced to join the military. I know I won't change your mind and you will continue to get your kicks over watching Keith Olbermann, but I'm just trying to save you some embarrassment.
You're the one who sounds like a talking points parrot. I really like the one about the military being voluntary. Only an a$$hole like Dick Cheney would even make that excuse. Just because they volunteered, they have no right to complain if they've been sent on a fool's errand? I think you and Dick are mistaken.
I like to think of the military as a civic duty. Interestingly, I thought that was an opinion (one of very few) I shared with conservatives. Now I see my mistake. Those idiot servicemembers VOLUNTEERED themselves, and if they die, well, they deserved it!
Come-on, your attempts at being smart and whitty accomplished neither.
Soldiers are agreeing when they sign on to serve their country for better or worse. If you don't want to risk fighting in a war, don't join the military because there is always that chance. Bush sent military into Iraq for the greater good of the country, which is what the soldiers signed on to defend. Tragically (and I seriouslly mean this as being tragic) some die fulfilling that purpose.
You'd think that someone who castigates other people's intelligence could spell "witty".
Oh, you got me. I almost looked up your spelling of castigates, but I'm sure you spell-checked it first.
If you were smart, you wouldn't have to look it up. He spelled it correctly.
So what was your point about the military being voluntary? I read that as we shouldn't care how many soldiers are killed because they didn't have to be there. Every soldier, airman, seaman, and MARINE knows the cost of their service, but they aren't foolhardy. No one wants to die for a mistake, or worse, an ideological experiment.
But then again Mrs. T, who knows better about such things, you, whose husband is serving our country in Iraq, or this crybaby, selfish, dittohead?
I am sorry that you feel we are at war for an ideological experiment. I truly am thankful for your husband's service to the country and believe that he service helps to protect our country from harm. This is what I believe is the true purpose of the war.
You can believe what you want. Being delusional is not a crime in this country, otherwise most of the conservatives would be in jail.
Actually, eagle, many members of the military are opposed to the debacle in Iraq. And your own "attempt at being smart" is pretty lame -- none of the 9/11 murderers were from Iraq. Most thoughtful Americans support the war in AFGHANISTAN, not the fool's errand in Iraq which diverted valuable human and material resources from the just war in AFGHANISTAN. My 55-year-old (democrat) brother is now voluntarily in AFGHANISTAN and is proud to be there. You could go, too, if you feel strongly about defending America against terrorists. His son, however, left a very promising career in the active military, which included tours in Kosovo and Nicaragua and at Gitmo as well as a stint at the War College, immediately after returning from the cf in Iraq. He now hopes to reactivate and deploy to AFGHANISTAN. Too bad bloviating, chicken-hawk smart-a$$es who pontificate about the military and war rarely, if ever, bother to talk to real soldiers. Or, for that matter, to enlist.
Uh huh....that's why the vast majority of military votes were for McCain/Palin. Because they think they are fighting a "fool's errand." And, excuse me, but I know several current and ex soldiers who are scared as hell that all the good work they have done in Iraq will be for naught when Obama gets involved. Bush had the full intent of moving to AFGHANISTAN once Iraq was stable. Iraq was harboring the terrorists, idiot. And Bush does what his militilary generals tell him to do based on the intelligence. Thats what they are for. Whatever they did (good or bad) it was their strategy. Maybe it wasn't the best one (maybe it was), but it wasn't because they had some hidden agenda that they were trying to hide from America. Were you in those strategic war meetings? Do you know something that I don't, or is it all liberal bush-hating speculation?
Iraq was harboring the terrorists, idiot.
You are the idiot. Iraq was not harboring terrorists, except a few in the Northern part of Iraq that we hadn't let Saddam control for years!
Bush didn't need to rely upon the flawed intelligence that told him that Saddam had WMD's. He knew before he invaded in March of 2003 that there were no WMD's in Iraq, but he still sacrificed more than 4000 American soldiers and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's for no good reason. Dethroning a despot that helped hold Iraq together as a secular nation in a region full of religious nations was not a good plan, even he was a cruel despot. Besides, it's not our job to rid the world of cruel dictators by invading sovereign nations.
Clearly, we know a lot that you don't know, or that you are willing to ignore.
I don't hate Bush. I hate lying behavior. I hate deceit and willful ignorance. I hate partisan behavior that ignores reality.
There is not one scintilla of proof to back up that statement. Was the last word in that sentence your signature? It should have been.
That should have been addressed to Beagle, Not LuLu.
First of all, eagle, it's not nice to call people names. :) Secondly, the vast majority of military personnel did not vote for McCain/Palin -- the percentages pretty closely mirrored those of the non-military population. Thirdly, you need to broaden your information base -- try to move beyond Fox News and Rush the infotainer. Some very, very high profile generals were and are critical of the Bush's administration's prosecution of the war. These are just two names that might sound a little familar: Eric Shinseki and Colin Powell. You are correct about one thing, though. It was undoubtably not the military commanders who had a secret agenda. A member of the Bush administration famously stated in 2001 that the Bush presidency was not about democracy, but about empire building. This comment was generally interpreted to allude to an empire on THIS side of the Big Reach, not in Asia.
that isn't true, either. Is every word you post a lie? Wait, you don't have to answer that, all one has to do is read your tripe to know the answer is a resounding "Yes!"
Here you go. I found one with charts to help you understand. It is a mlitary poll. The ONLY group that even comes close to supporting Obama is the African-American group, which brings up a whole other issue that I won't bring up here. If the actual "vote count" was close it was only because there are a large number of African Americans in the military.
http://www.militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/081003_ep_2pp.pdf
Oh Peagle, you should have been around here longer. We have discussed and discussed this poll already.
Military Times does polls of their subscribers. They are not secretive about this, and if you read their survey methods, they make it very clear that they are not scientific polls of the entire military. Retirees are more likely to read the Military Times, and more likely to be Republican, and people with a strong opinion are more likely to respond to voluntary response-based polls.
Since I actually spend a ton of time with people in the military, I can tell you that most are moderates, or don't really care about politics. Some are hardcore conservative, and some are Democrats. Just like the regular population.
The idea that the military is autonomous, or has some secret better knowledge of who would be a good President, is ridiculous and annoying. And it's been debunked many, many times.
Yes, because you "discussed" it, I should take your word over a published survey. I am glad you "discussed" this survey enough to come up with your own warped reasons why it has to be incorrect, but the numbers are right there. I guess you put as much thought into this as you put into the reasons why Bush went to war. Also, you obviously are not a fan of the war. Because your group of friends feels the same way is not a reflection of the entire military population. Finally, I am not saying that the military knows who would be a better president, I am saying that most of the people who are fighting in the war, support the party that put them there. That says more to me than a bunch of consparicy theorists that sit here and pretend they know everything that Bush was thinking when he decided to agree to war in the first place.
I am starting to feel bad for you people. It must be exhausting living in your world.
You really got all that from what I wrote? You're nuttier than I thought you were.
My point was giving us a graph to something we've already seen won't convince anyone. It's old information. And you don't need to take my word for it that the poll is unscientific. Here it is, straight from the horse's mouth:
"Athough public opinion pollsters use random selection to survey the general public, the Military Times survey is based on responses from those who chose to participate. That means it is impossible to calculate statistical margins of error commonly reported in opinion surveys, because those calculations depend on random sampling techniques.
The voluntary nature of the survey, the dependence on e-mail and the characteristics of Military Times readers could affect the results. For a more detailed explanation of the methodology and data, go to http://www.navytimes.com/electionsurvey."
I actually don't have an opinion on the war. Since my husband is there risking his life every day, I'm content with just hoping he comes home alive. And most of his friends are for the war, because infantry Marines tend to VOLUNTEER for infantry because they want to go to war.
My experience is anecdotal, but it's very clear that you don't have ANY evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to what actual servicemembers think about anything. By the way, I'm not the only poster here with experience with the military. Some people are, GASP, veterans. So you can try to tell them what they believe, but I'm not sure you have the upper hand.
Get your ass down to the recruitment office and then after you enlist come back and tell us what you find. This crap about supporting the party that put them there is bull. It's been going on for more than 40 years.
Mrs. T is speaking from experience as are many others here. We don't take our marching orders from Chickenhawk scum like Limbaugh. You should show a little more respect for those who've served to protect your right to run your mouth.
I am saying that most of the people who are fighting in the war, support the party that put them there.
Wow. I think we have a new world record. So let me get this straight - people who are fighting the war support the party that exposes them to injury and even death? If that is what you think, you are one sick, sick human being.
I am the one who showed the report proving exactly what I said. What do you have to show?
Bush had the full intent of moving to AFGHANISTAN once Iraq was stable. Iraq was harboring the terrorists, idiot.
YOU'RE a moron!
Bush started a war in Afghanistan BEFORE starting ANOTHER war in Iraq!
Did you forget the cute names the Bush administration applied to their different wars? .......Operation Enduring Freedom was started 2001 IN Afghanistan
And, as far as Bush "fully intending to move to Afghanistan"? He'd already declared victory in Afghanistan.
Don't tell me you forgot Bush saying:
Coalition forces, including many brave Afghans, have brought America, Afghanistan and the world its first victory in the war on terror," the president said. "Afghanistan is no longer a terrorist factory sending thousands of killers into the world." http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/15/karzai/index.html
Please note the year Bush declared victory.....(2004)!
And Bush does what his militilary generals tell him to do based on the intelligence. Thats what they are for. Whatever they did (good or bad) it was their strategy.
WRONG AGAIN!
Pressed to respond to critics who say he is ignoring the advice of respected former military commanders, Bush vigorously stood by Rumsfeld.
"I listen to all voices, but mine is the final decision," he said.
"I hear the voices, and I read the front page, and I know the speculation. But I'm the decider, and I decide what is best.
Maybe it wasn't the best one (maybe it was), but it wasn't because they had some hidden agenda that they were trying to hide from America. Were you in those strategic war meetings? Do you know something that I don't, or is it all liberal bush-hating speculation?
It's called common sense!
When MORE American soldiers are dying AFTER the "Mission Accomplished" banner waving ceremony, COMMON SENSE says you have a problem!
It's called using your brain!
And you're not a "whit" smart, either.
jpeagle, Bush lied about the WMD's. He knew they weren't there, jerk-off. Why do I say this..because no one sends in the infantry to do battle against a lunatic who has used WMD's and supposedly has them.. Grow up. Talk about not smart...Which Iraqi killers are you talking about in reference to 9/11? You should stay away from a subject you know nothing about. I'll give you time to look back in your Hannity and Rushie file to combat my opinion. I'll wait.
Wow, I see you subscribe to the Olbermann school of Bush-hating ideology. I know you hate Bush with a passion, but do you really think.....now think about this hard....do you honestly believe that this man would send soldiers to risk their lives for oil or whatever hair-brained reasons that your types attribute it to. Do you really believe that? Do you really that he didn't have the best interests of the country's safety in mind? I don't like Obama's policies one bit, but I think he is doing what he thinks is best for the country. I just think his ideas are wrong.
He did it cause "god" told him to.
do you honestly believe that this man would send soldiers to risk their lives for oil or whatever hair-brained reasons that your types attribute it to.... JPE
That is what I was responding to.
I think Bush thought he was doing right. But he lied because he thought he would end up being justified. He swore an oath to defend the constitution. Yet all he did was trample it. Just because you believe what you're doing is in the best intrest of the country does not mean you can do whatever you want to. You still need to follow the law. Bush did not. Over and over he made illegal decisions because he thought he knew best. You may think Obama's ideas are wrong, but at least they are not criminal.
It's "hare-brained," Einstein. Hare. You know -- like a rabbit.
That's the best you could find to rebutt in my argument? Wow, I must be pretty good. When all else fails, attack spelling and grammar.
When someone has no point to make, what is there to do? The best thing to do is belittle them. That's the right tack in dealing with Ann Coulter and the right strategy in responding to your inanity.
“You are the hare of whom the proverb goes, whose valor plucks dead lions by the beard.”
King John. Act H. Sc. 1. L. 137
I know that Bush was wrong. I don't have to 'think' he was wrong. I know that his FEMA group should have been ready to send aid to New Orleans on Tuesday, not Thursday or Friday. It was too big of a catastrophe for NO or LA to handle, and the Feds should have been preparing for a catastrophe of that size since the Saturday before that event happened. He did what he thought was best for him politically, and dammed be the poor blacks in New Orleans. If he'd had their safety in mind, he would have directed his mighty power to plan for the worst. Then, when the levees failed, they would have had the resources they needed. They didn't do that, and don't even try to tell me that they needed the okay from Nagin and Blanco to do that pre-planning and staging, because it's not true.
I know that Bush was wrong. I don't have to 'think' he was wrong about invading Iraq to protect the world from WMD's when he knew from inspectors reports two months before he invaded that Iraq had no WMD's and the intelligence had been wrong. It was wrong to invade. I don't have to 'think' he was wrong about taking resources from Afghanistan to enable him to invade Iraq. He didn't do what he thought was right or best for the nation. He did what was best for his side of the fence.
In reply to your questions, jpeagle21, my answer is YES!
Wow, your mind has been truly warped more than even I can comprehend. I truly feel sorry for you that you live in this world of conspiracy theories.
It's called "the reality based community". You should try it some time. Facts and logic are intoxicating.
More like non-facts and warped logic.
In a second. Just look up "Project for a New American Century." They described the Iraq war in detail back in 1998, when they were trying to get Bill Clinton to invade Iraq.
Look it up, Mr hair-for-brains Eagle.
Excuse me, but the correct grammatical abbreviation of Mister has a period at the end. Like this: Mr.
Sorry that I had to stoop to your level.
To add the period would have given you more deference then you deserve.
do you honestly believe that this man would send soldiers to risk their lives for oil or whatever hair-brained reasons that your types attribute it to.
Since he never really gave a good reason (or at least one that was true), I will continue to believe that he started this war as revenge for the assassination attempt on Poppy Bush.
I just think his ideas are wrong.
Which ones? Remember, Obama's been in office for less than a month.
The vote authorized Bush to go to war. The congress gave Bush the tools he needed to go to war. You sound like one of those who blame the gun for killing someone, not the one who fired it.
Bush and only bush pulled the trigger. No one is forced to join the military. But those in the military are forced to go back into combat, time after time. Tours and enlistments are extended.
Where do you get off questioning the intelligence of anyone else? You really think we went to war in Iraq because of 9/11? Even Bush knows better than to use that line anymore.
And Prince has forgotten more about the military than you'll ever know.
Nothing seems to excite the dittoheads like kicking a poor person. I always love when the "class envy" BS turns to "you people want..." nonsense addressed to the other posters here. As if those anybody who actually gives a damn about other people must be a freeloader.
Somehow, just based on my life experience, I'd guess that the more liberal posters here are generally living comfortably on what they earned themselves, while the Rushbots sound more like the trust fund babies I've known. Furious that they have to pay property taxes on the house daddy left them.
i always love when the liberal dittoheads call class envy BS and and then proceed to spout nonsense about how rich people are just trust fund babies who ar furious to pay property taxes on the house daddy left them. When by doing exactly that they are displaying the very definition of what they call BS, class envy.
Do you realize that you read comments the way you want them to be? Col. didn't say "all rich people are just"... he said the trust fund babies he knew didn't know the true cost of a dollar (labor). Many liberals are rich, and many of them worked very hard for their money. Some of them, even, have trust funds. The idea that liberals have class envy when many of them are upper middle class or better is what is ridiculous, and that's what's being pointed out.
Much more concise than I was, Mrs. T. My comment was very clearly about the Rushbots, but Jimmy thought that was "class envy".
that old class warfare, or envy, always gets under liberals' skin. you just don't realize that every time you generalize and bash someone, anyone, you don't know simply because they have money, no matter the source of that money, that is the very definition of class warfare. I don't care if it's done to every rich person or not, the mere fact that they are criticized simply for being "rich" is enough. I know liberals who do it, and not all do it, just can't get it. Try criticizing people for actions instead of bank accounts, then you won't have to fight that class warfare accusation anymore. It sticks because some of you can't help yourself.
Who fired the first shot? The poor have been under the boot of the rich for centuries. This continues with the constant assualt on the middle class and poor in this country. It's about time we fight back.
well, you're not going to do it just by being envious.
You are right. You have to fight for economic justice. Rich foks aren't en masse going to share the wealth. Thankfully, we are going in the right direction.
Nobody criticized anyone simply for being rich, though.
furious because they complain about paying daddy's property tax is a compliment, got it.
Complaining about paying daddy's property tax would be behavior. Now go back and read your previous posts.
Thanks, Brab. I think I gave up on dumbing it down enough for Jimmy. Whatta brick.
I think I must have hit a nerve with the trust fund comment. Jimmy seems to shift every comment about behavior to the "They just hate the rich" lane
I'm willing to bet that Jimmy and J the Beagle will be beside themselves when they find out that most of us are just self-loathing rich people.
I don't think so. It's impossible for the same sock puppet to be beside itself.
No problem. I think we're both used to dealing with people who have knee-jerk reactions about class warfare, big government and the validity of MMfA items.
oh i get it, hate the sin, love the sinner. Let me see, if I came here and instead of saying trust fund babies when labeling some rich person, I said trailer park dweller when labeling a poor person - and then instead of saying they complain about daddy's property tax, I said they complain their welfare check is late - you would say I was talking about behavior, not criticized the poor person though. i'm not stupid.
No, we would say you're a bigoted liar.
That's a lie, also.
You said that people should criticize actions, and that's exactly what was done.
I see what you're saying, but I don't see how it applies. The original conversation was about Rush Limbaugh, a man who arguably doesn't do much for his millions, was criticizing a woman extremely down on her luck for asking the President for help. If anything, he was practicing class warfare against the poor.
"... If anything, he was practicing class warfare against the poor." Exactly but poor jimmyb got his feelings hurt, but he still hasn't explained how this women asking the president for help and Rush Limbaugh ridiculing her is class warfare against the rich.
Poor sweet Jimmy, you're confused about so much.
There are no liberal dittoheads.
I never said, nor implied that all rich people are trust fund babies. This is your black & white thinking getting you messed up.
I was making an observation, based on my life experience. Those who have worked hard and made themselves successful financially are less likely to spit on the poor. The self-made rich understand the obstacles and the odds, how much luck is involved.
Those born with a silver spoon tend to think they earned it all, or they realize they don't deserve it, and compensate by trying to convince themselves that poor people are just lazy.
That's why George Bush is a conservative and Obama and Biden are more liberal.
You have no idea what "class" I'm in, but I'll tell you, I have been poor. I collected unemployment once for a month or so, in my early 20s, after working full time for 5 years or so.
When I was poor, I don't recall ever envying the rich, but I always pitied the stupid. I don't envy those who were born rich, as they tend to be very ignorant about the world. In general, they sound like you.
But I don't think you're a trust fund baby.I'll guess you're in one of the other groups that sound a lot like the ignorant rich- the delusional working class (who believe they're going to be rich soon) or the still-living-with-mommy Fox fan, who just haven't had to deal with reality yet.
BINGO!
Funny I was thinking how right wingers always say poor people are lazy people who want hand outs. But no. You would never sink so low as to use class warfare. Nope not you.
You're right. We went into the war for oil. Bush sent innocent soldiers to their deaths for oil. Oh no, wait....maybe it was the one where he went to Iraq to finish the battle that his dad couldn't. Yea, thats it.... that sounds plausible. Bush is just Hitler without a moustache. You're right, i'm wrong.
Your parody of the liberal's impression of Bush is as ridiculous as Bush own reasons and replacement reasons for having started a war with a country that had not attacked us and had kept balance in the region.
Half of the Bush team in place before we were attacked were signatories to the PNAC which had preached regime change in Iraq long before Bush became president.
I have no idea why we went into Iraq. I do know that the Chickenhawks you worship were quite angry at Clinton for not having an exit strategy in Bosnia. Why the sudden change of tune?
Wow. The stopped clock is right finally.
I can't believe you have the arrogance to come on this site and peddle that tired old trash! You should be embarassed...Bush didn't send anyone to war??? It was a congressional vote rushed in weeks before an election that gave him authorizaton to use force, Bush took us to war. As far as having the information he had thats utterly false. The French and Germans told us not to rely on "Curveball" and Chalabi, that they weren't telling the truth and had vested interest. Remember anyone who disagreed with the president being labeled a "traitor" or siding with the terrorist. Remember what happened to Valerie Plame???No WMD's except our own, no functional ties to AL-Queda and Sadaam had no connection to 9/11 which most people acknowledge except the most backward and ignorant. So everyone was ready to go after the killers except they were in Afghanistan and the Pakistan border not Iraq!??? YOU should be embarassed posting such debunked trash. Secondly, last time I checked we have a responsibility to insure that when we send our precious brothers, sisters, mothers aunts,uncles cousins and friends into combat volunteer or not that it's the right battle and a necessary battle before we ask them to sacrifice their lives!!!! Your the one who should be embarrassed!!!!
jpheagle is probably wondering who Chalabi and Curveball are? That is not in his Rush Notes which appropriately come in an all-yellow book.
Never ever he probably thinks I'am talking about baseball!
Wow, if I read that back in my head it almost sounds like Olbermann himself. I threw a few more "sirs" in there to amuse myself.
I see you bought into all the hype and lies and propaganda that liberals put out there to try to discredit Bush. Your precious Colin Powell who supported Obama championed the whole WMD thing. Do you think he was lying? Why don't you blame him and not Bush? And your complaints about the vote being rushed.......do you mean like the stimulus is being rushed right now by Obama? So, is Obama rushing the stimulus through so that we won't have time to discredit it like you are accusing Bush of having done? You are the one with tired arguments that no one with a spec of sense would actually buy into.
Boy , your ignorance knows no limits.Wasn't Colin powell part of the Bush Administration? It was Bush and his administration FOOL who pushed and lied us into war?!!? Do i think he was lying????He even regrets what he did? I do blame Powell but George Bush was the D-E-C-I-D-E-R, the ...the "commander" guy, right!!? That's why more of his policies represented by McBush/Palin were soundly rejected by the voters despite all the lies your side told and is still trying to peddle. YOU LOST! And secondly my dittoheaded friend Obama is trying to get a stimulus package through quickly because what good is CPR if it is not done in a timely manner. Why is CPR needed by this economy because it was destroyed by 8 yrs of conservative policies led by .....no not Keith O. but by George and his gang of radicals. As far as tired arguments no-one will by into how'd the last election work out for you???? HaHAhA!!! You got trounced, BAM! Beat down! And now your weak movement even admits to borrowing tactics of our enemy the TALIBAN. You should be ashamed!
I'm just going to pretend that this made sense so I don't have to read it and try to make sense of it anymore.
The Bush Administration, in general, believed in the faulty intelligence. Some cherry-picked that which supported their philosophy and ignored that which did not. Some were just mouthpieces for the government line.
The unforgiveable sin on Bush's part comes when he learned in early 2003 that the intelligence had been wrong, that there were no WMD's in Iraq, and he still invaded.
There are events that demand immediate intervention. This economic crisis is one of those times. Invading Iraq when we knew almost to a certainty that they didn't have any WMD's and could have found out for sure, and then had them under lock and key without invading, in a few months, did not demand immediate intervention, but Bush couldn't wait for a final determination that Iraq didn't have WMD's.
That was a rush job for no good reason.
How unlike you to compare apples to oranges, jp. I am shocked, I tell you, just shocked!
Why don't you blame him and not Bush?
That's easy!
Because Colin Powell didn't say, "I'm the decider! I'm the commander in chief! I make the final decision!"
Now that I realize you're channeling Gollum, your posts make more sense. Yes, Powell lied through his teeth. Did you ever watch his speech at the UN? His examples of chemical plants and his "proof" were cartoon drawings. And you believed it.
Not only should he be embarrassed, he should have his ass in Iraq. He should know what it's like when others decide to send our loved ones into battle for no reason that's obvious to the people.
I am not in Iraq because I didn't VOLUNTEER to join the military. And the reason was obvious to me. To attack those that are supporting and harboring terrorists and to keep us safe. I only hope that when the terrorists regain momentum under the Obama administration that you or no one in your family are in the path of their next strike.
You are all about volunteerism aren't you. Why is it that you think you should be exempt from military service? What is it about the voluntary aspect that makes you believe that other people should risk their life to keep you safe? Are you somehow better or better informed than the people who DO serve their country? Why do you hate America so?
Maybe you are missing my point that the military is a volunteer system. When you sign on you agree to the risk of having to go to war. I have the utmost respect for our military, but part of their job requires "risking their life to keep me safe" if the situation calls for it, which it did. I don't join the military because I don't want to be shipped away from my family for months at a time and risk my life at war. That is my choice. Your husband took the other option and I respect him beyond measure for that but it was a choice. I don't think I am better than anyone, miss (unlike most of the others on this forum). I don't hate America. I love my country, which is why it ticks me off beyond measure that you people (and maybe this doesn't apply to you personally) come on here and bash Bush, call him a war criminal and every other name in the book, and otherwise disrespect our former President who did nothing more than what he thougt was right for the country. I don't agree with most of Obama's agenda, but I respect him as my President. And, I would never disrespect him or accuse him of something like war crimes unless I had hard evidence showing otherwise.
The risk of going to war should be dependent on circumstances beyond control, not on some socialogical experiment.
Loving your country has nothing to do with one's opinion of Bush. He gets disrespect because he earned it. Whether he thought he was doing the right thing or not has nothing to do with anything.
You really don't see how unbelievably selfish that is? YOU don't want to risk your life for your country, but you are sure that everyone who does is lockstep with the Republican party and supports all war no matter what.
It's pretty reasonably documented that those who have been to war are less likely to push for war, or at least are more likely to be damned sure they have a good reason and a good plan for going to war.
You say you need hard evidence that Bush committed war crimes. Yet you take as fact that he was doing what he thought was right for the country. Neither of us knows him personally, so we don't know his reasons.
Bush is out of office, and I'm personally over it. But it ticks me off beyond belief when someone tells me what "the military" thinks, when they have no experience but are sure they do because they're a conservative.
The point is I am taking HIS (Bush's) word for it, not Keith Olbermann's.
And no, I said that the majority of military went with the republican party. And, I am not saying that they support war, but they support (or should support) their country and if their commander-in-chief (with the support of others) decides that war it the best measure than you follow orders. I like how, because you are married to someone in the military, that you somehow think you deserve some credibility in describing how the majority of the military feels.
Either you don't understand the argument I'm making, or you're being deliberately obtuse because you know you're in the wrong. YOU said that the vast majority of the military supported McCain. YOU used a survey that was unscientific, and relied entirely upon voluntary response. I pointed out the error in your ways, and used admittedly anecdotal evidence to show your "the vast majority of soldiers love Bush and the Iraq War and all conservative causes" was the bs that it is.
I don't think I ever said what the "majority of hte military feels". YOU did that. I refuted it. But I must say, since you admittedly have no military experience (because you thought it best that someone else go fight your battles, ala Limbaugh) that mine and WK's anecdotal personal experience counts for a heck of a lot more than your "the internet and Rush told me" experience does.
"since you admittedly have no military experience (because you thought it best that someone else go fight your battles, ala Limbaugh)"
Well, you better run and join the military along with all the rest of you quacks. You just lumped yourself and most everyone else here in with me and Limbaugh. I don't see you wearing a military uniform.
Let me say this slowly. If a family member is serving in a combat zone, it's customary that no other family member serve in combat.
Run along, son, run along.
Uh huh.....and I guess she would run out and enlist if her husband wasn't serving. Yea, from her posts she sounds like someone that would do that.
If Mrs. T wants to enlist becasue she beleives that the war is just and necessary she might. So far, I haven't heard her express anything like that. She seems to have questions, that are not being answered by the politicians who've waged war. But she still supports those we've sent.
But there are others here, who have expressed their support as long as it's someone else risking their lives for what "they" believe in.
You may not understand this because it has to do with something the conservatives today know nothing about. It's a term called "shared sacrifice". In past wars, people paid higher taxes to pay for wars they though necessary. Not this time.
What is common then and now is what the individual military families go through. Every family member shares the sacrifice of their loved one in harms way. Now, as during prior wars, not every family member shares a belief in the justness of the war but each and every family member suffers and shares their loved ones service with every other member of the family.
You should look into your heart and try to understand.
King, I think it is about time that jparrot be given his release. He only wants to argue. He reminds me of a poster from a few months ago who repeats the same points over and over while others try to have a discussion.
He knows nothing of the sacrifices of our military especially those in combat. I would ask the this boy walk POINT one day in his life and then talk about the romance of war..defending us from the bad guys. His thinking may even change.
jpeagle, go to the virtual wall.org click on deaths on todays date...You'll see Moran and English, A4/3 198th Infantry. War leaves a lasting impression both good and bad. The families of the dead suffer forever. That is why the decision to 'send in the troops' is not a movie, it is real...We had no reason to be in VietNam except for the Domino Principle and we have no reason to be in Iraq except for a Domino Principle. Afghanistan is a different story..we should get the criminal/killers responsible for 9/11, not some 3 year old Iraqi kid.
President Bush was the DECIDER...and he decided wrong. I want him to be questioned about his decision making process...
You know what I want you to do? Think of the person you love most in the world. Then, tomorrow morning, wake up and have your first thought be that you don't know if they're safe, or if you'll ever see them again. Then, repeat that daily for the next seven months. Also, cut off all communication with them, save for a phone call every six weeks or so. make sure it's static-y, and that the phone cuts off at least once during this phone call. Better yet, to make it really authentic, move across the country to a place where you know no one and have no family or friends nearby. Then come back and talk to me about sacrifice.
You say you didn't enlist because you didn't want to be away from your family. I respect that, but why is it that you find that okay for my family? I don't have a problem with doves who haven't served - they don't wish this on anyone. I have a problem with hawks who think it's fine, so long as it's not THEIR family sacrificing.
Mrs. T, I wish you wouldn't have been such a "you-know-what" in previous posts. Otherwise, I might not want to automatically brush off these comments. As much as your situation sucks, that is not a reason to oppose the greater purpose of this war. That is no reason to try and find every shoddy reason to pull the troops out Iraq and force it to make sense in your mind. There are several families in your shoes who are proud of what their spouses are doing in Iraq. Who suffer every day like you said, but know it is for a greater purpose above them.
"You say you didn't enlist because you didn't want to be away from your family. I respect that, but why is it that you find that okay for my family? "
I don't think we should force anyone to go to war unless they sign-up for military service and there is a justifiable reson for it. Your husband signed-up (voluntarily) to protect and defend the country. As long as we have a military there will be sacrificing families. Based on your logic, you think there should be no military and no wars ever so families will never suffer because of a loved one at war. What if your husband were serving in Afghanistan (where everyone here seems to think we should be fighting) instead of Iraq? You would be in the same situation, but would you feel any different?
I won't pretend to understand what you are going through, because I couldn't. And, I do understand how you would be frustrated about a war situation that is lingering like this. But, to me your husband is serving a greater purpose. To me he is a hero. To me, your family is making more of a sacrifice than me and my family will ever make, and it is a noble one. I say prayers every night for people like your husband and your family because of the sacrifices they make to keep us safe. I know that won't bring him home any sooner, but I hope that gives you more solice than spending days on this site watching people bash the war that your husband is so courageously fighting in.
Someone else described you as naive. The more you try to state your position, the more obvious that appears.
My husband is a hero. So are all of our friends. I don't remember anyone saying anything to the contrary. My husband is the bravest, most loyal, most patriotic, most selfless person I have ever met. I am a better person for knowing him. I am extremely proud of him, and in awe of him. I am proud every single day. He represents his country honorably in Iraq, and when he is at home.
I never regret the sacrifice my family has made. As I stated yesterday, I personally think it's a civic duty. You will find no one more pro-military than me. However, the enlisted servicemembers do not make the decision to go to war. Nor do they decide to end a war. That is solely the responsibility of our government. i think Bush was reckless and shortsighted when he invaded Iraq. Several people have explained why they also believe this, and you have not countered them with facts, simply with "well if that's what Keith Olbermann tells you".
I am lucky that I'm not in the position to send soldiers to war. I'm not sure I could make that choice. Anyone who could do so without the gravest of hearts is not someone I want leading our country.
My husband has no decision about this war one way or the other. I don't see how people attacking the war are attacking him (or me) personally. As I stated earlier, I don't have an opinion on the war currently. I was virulently against it before it began, because there was plenty of evidence that the reasons Bush was giving were not truthful. Again, this has been pointed out to you, and you seem to not realize that WMDs did not and do not exist in Iraq.
I'm done with this conversation I think, but it seems you still don't get our point. I can act like a "you know what" because I have experiences you can't imagine. So do, to a much larger extent than I do, the veterans on this board who have seen combat and have not had all their friends return home safely, as I hope my husband does.
You came on this board to start a fight, and you got one. I appreciate your concern for my husband, and for all other soldiers. But please stop telling people that you know more about strangers than they know about themselves.
Talk about naivety. Talk about contradicting oneself. Good luck Mrs. T. I wish your husband a safe trip home.
I didn't think that we'd get through to him. I've been arguing with him, or other posters very similar to him for years and never get anywhere. You'll see, months from now, that you'll be having the same argument with someone else and then certain phrases and wording will remind you of this guy.
Sure, it could be coincidental, but too many times they do reappear under other names but with the same worn out philosophy.
Don't let these kind get to you.
An honorable person, would respect the service that your family has gladly given to the nation.
A caring, human would understand that nothing is black and white. A reasonable person would see that he's been haranguing and insulting soldiers, their familes and the other veterans for two days now, just because they disagree with him, who chose to let others defend him.
And they also disagree with Limbaugh who did the cowardly, dishonorable thing when it was his turn to serve. I have the utmost respect for anyone who escaped the draft in the sixties and seventies, but none for anyone who succeeded in their evasion, yet now argue to send others to fight an unpopular war today.
Thanks Mrs. T and thank your husband. We might not agree with the war he's fighting, or with the administration responsible for his being there, but a lot of us have been there.
And some of us are intelligent enough to know that even those who are opposed to a particular war, can have the best interests, of those our governement has sent to fight in our hearts as we work to end it.
Did I say one negative thing about her husband? Did I say one negative thing about our military? You are the ones who disrespect the military and trounce all over the souls of the men and women who have fought and died in Iraq to protect you. You are the ones who should be ashamed. And, posting this back-handed insult to the military disguised as some sort of momorial to them and this woman's family should cause you even more shame.
WK's a veteran.
Veterans are not immune from disrespecting the military.
It sort of makes the criticism less believable and harder to substantiate, and makes you less credible in the process. I'm just letting you know for future reference.
Why does it make MY criticism less believeable because HE is a veteran? I am talking about opinions here. Just because a person was in the military doesn't mean his views are shared by the whole military.
I think the point was you claimed he was insulting the military by disguising it as a memorial. Since he's a veteran, it made it seem really unlikely that your interpretation is correct.
Again, YOU have made blanket statements for days. WE have refuted it. WK has pointed out that saying you know best (or Bush knows best, for that matter) military decisions and servicemembers is a bit disingenuous when you yourself have never served.
Just a question, why do you take Bush at his word but political pundits with a grain of salt? Bush has to worry about elections and historical legacy? Pundits don't have any of those concerns. Why is it so unbelievable that Bush would lie (or misrepresent) to save face?
Save face? Are you serious? It was an unpopular war. He knew it. But he did what he thought he needed to do regardless of political ramifications. That is the total opposite of your attempt at bashing him.
regardless of political ramifications.
You've got it backwards. He went to war BECAUSE of the political ramifications, so he could wrap himself in the flag and paint anyone against the war as un-American. Unfortunately, it worked in 2004. But most of the public got wise and the result is the Repubs are in the minority now and likely will be for years to come.
OMG....that's all I can say. This is not worth arguing.
Name one thing that Bush ever did that wasn't rationalized in a political sense. Off the top of my head you've got Terri Schiavo, the justice deparment...
You seem to me to be quite naive.
But you've questioned our intelligence, our patriotism and judgement for expressing our opinions which differ from yours. If I as a vet, and Mrs. T as the spouse of someone serving presently in Iraq, have no standing, then how can you claim it for yourself?
Not every war is just, regardless of who is responsible. A president can't just be allowed to wage war without a verifiable reason. That president's reasoning has changed more than once. He disregarded the counsel of those in the military before the invasion and replaced anyone in the military who had doubts as to it's legitimacy. It was after he replaced those who warned him that he claimed to be listeneing to his generals.
So at every turn, his reasoning is suspect.
I didn't say you had no standing. I am arguing your point with my point. That's how these things go. We can agree to disagree. I think he had a verifiable reason for war. Obviously you don't.
"I like how, because you are married to someone in the military, that you somehow think you deserve some credibility in describing how the majority of the military feels. "
"You are the ones who disrespect the military and trounce all over the souls of the men and women who have fought and died in Iraq to protect you. You are the ones who should be ashamed. And, posting this back-handed insult to the military disguised as some sort of momorial to them and this woman's family should cause you even more shame."
"I didn't say you had no standing. "
Really?
It's called a disagreement. I'm sorry if most of you are used to sitting here and licking up each-other's propaganda and lies and then going to bed feeling good about yourselves. A voice of opposition really threw you all for a loop.
Read through some older threads and see how true that is.
We call things as we see them. Your "voice of opposition" is little more than an uninformed, ignorant regurgitation of what you hear in rightwing circles.
Case in point: your obsession with Olbermann, when not a single one of us brought him up, or said anything similar to what he has said. Or you deciding that we believe things that I have never heard anyone on this site say.
I've been pretty civil this entire time. My feelings aren't hurt, I just have pointed out that you know little of what you talk about. My only point? The soldiers can take care of themselves, they don't need you to defend their "honor" or "mission in Iraq". Thanks though.
I'm close to giving up. Jp goes back and forth between claiming to be one who's only expressing his differing opinion to accusing us of being liars and questioning our motives and our patriotism.
He's been treated a lot better than he deserves.
yeah I've noticed the jumps in arguments. Hence my cut and paste. I'm actually pretty exhausted, my problem is if I give up then I'll check back a day later and there will be a "ha! I knew you Olbermann-loving troop-hating anti-Bush hippie-tards wouldn't be able to have a come-back to that!"
Maybe just KNOWING i have the upperhand should be enough.
"I've been pretty civil this entire time."
Really?
"You're nuttier than I thought you were."
"You are such a nut."
You started the name-calling, not me.
I think he had a verifiable reason for war.
Which reason was that?
Those who've chosen to let others fight for what they consider to be their country's best interest can be disrespectful as well.
You're following in some pretty big shoes.
Look, worrierking, I don't and didn't mean to disrespect your service. If I did, I appologize and it was not what I meant to do. I personally believe that what the militarty is fighting for IS the country's best interest. I believe that the one purpose of our military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan is the safety of our country. I take Bush's word for it. I believe him when he says that. I am not naive or gullable enough to believe talking heads that say he would put our men at risk for any other purpose. Maybe it wasn't the best strategy (but again, maybe it was, I don't know). I am not a military strategist. The fact that some (again, maybe not you) would like to pull out of Iraq while the job is undone is insulting to those who fought to get us where we are now.
I take Bush's word for it.
Now that we've identified the problem, we can move toward solving it.
And I haven't ever seen anyone disrespect those fighting in Iraq here. The whole point is that their lives are being misspent. We don't want any American blood to be shed for anything less than the most worthy causes, and there's nothing disrespectful about that.
To attack those that are supporting and harboring terrorists and to keep us safe.
Then YOU should be outraged that we didn't attack Saudi Arabia!
YOU are aware that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers came from there, right?
Bypassing Saudi Arabia, home to 15 of the 9/11 hijackers, to attack Iraq, home to zero hijackers, does not seem to bother you?
Um, no. Because I wasn't in the room looking at all the intelligence that the decision-makers saw. And neither were you. So, until you can transport yourself back in time and sit in the room with them I will accept your posts as liberal propaganda.
So just trust the government because you know they have your best interests at heart, right?
"If my wealth disappears it won't be because of free markets, it will be because the government forced all big business away with higher taxes and "stranglehold" regulation. It will be because of the higher taxes I will have to pay to support this massive bailout of borrowed money. These thngs you can't get yourself out of with hard work and determination. That, frankly, is terrifying."
Or maybe not.
That is not what I said, however, I believe Obama has the country's best interest at heart. But, I also happen to believe that his strategy is wrong. Either way, I still respect him as the President.
Then it's perfectly understandable that people believe Bush's strategy is wrong, which costs human life in the process. That's a problem, whether he meant well or not.
If there's questions about the legality of someone's actions, how do you say that without disrespect? Don't blame us, blame Bush. He's the one who took the action. What I want to know is not how what Bush has done could be considered illegal, but how it could be considered legal. If someone invaded Israel, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't accept the rationale that Israel poses a threat to other countries and has U.N. resolutions against them in their past, etc. Do we have special rights to overthrow foreign governments just because we want to, or what?
Wow, I am dealing with the leftist of the left here. Let me guess, you want Bush on trial and convicted of war crimes.
Bush didn't do anything illegal. The only reason that most democrats began opposing the Iraq war was because an election was coming up and they knew the American people were getting frustrated with the lack of improvement in the Iraq situation. So they atarted blasting all these stories on liberal news media outlets about war crimes and impeachment because they knew it was their chance to get people going against Bush. Guess what, it worked. You - case in point.
Bush didn't do anything illegal.
Wrong again. He's admitted to at least 2 crimes. Sanctioning torture and warrantless spying.
Most Iraq war opponents I know opposed it from the beginning, because there was clearly no basis for it. You do realize that your entire defense of Bush is the fact that you don't like liberals, don't you? That's not particularly compelling.
Again, explain to me how it's legal.
No, there wasn't. Look it up and read it, if you are able to understand it. There was never a vote to go to war with Iraq, either in Congress, or in the UN.
Not one.
Rush will call the Representative to his altar and demand that they toss her out. Then, he must divorce his wife and beg for A.D. Limbaughs' forgiveness just like the rest of the Republican leaders.
Yep......the right got a lot of mileage out of Reagan lying about welfare mothers driving Cadillacs.........except that was a lie. There was no such person
Limbaugh's just updating it
And exactly how do you know this? First of all, is she looking for free housing or subsidized housing? Secondly, she said that there was a two-year waiting list, not that SHE had been waiting for two years. Do you honestly think that she and her kids have been sleeping in a car for two years just waiting on a free apartment? Many, many Americans are two or three paychecks away from homelessness. Do you really know her story?
Ooops -- this comment was supposed to be in response to a comment much earlier.
And, true PSMarc93 -- Rush is the uber-hypocrite.
Isn't everyone entitled to a kitchen at the expense of people who pay their taxes.
Are you upset because homeless people don't "pay their taxes"? That seems to be the contrast you're setting up there.
Yes.
Do homeless people pay sales taxes? Why do you and the rest of the right-wingnuts believe that payroll tax is the only tax in existence?
Rush gives a hell of a lot more to charity than all of these so called caring democrats combined. Just look at the record of giving for all of the demorcrat presidential candates over the last 20 years, including Obama.
Theses losers love spending other peoples money, but not their own. Remember when Clinton claimed 5 dollars each for underware he donated.
Obama was making alot of money but didnt start donating until his political career depended on it. The same goes for Kerry, Edwards(Cheated on his wife when she had cancer But they didnt announce her having cancer during his campaign for President for political reasons).
Apparently you never took advantage of "English as a first language" classes.
HeHe!
The odd thing about some of these ditto head posters is that they do not realize that many of us who are moderate and liberal listen to Limbaugh in order to understand the fringe right mindset. MMH's comments above come directly from a Rush broadcast several weeks ago. It seems that ultra-right wing ideologues (as well as some far left wing) lack intellectual curiosity and the desire to form their own opinions based on balanced research.
Hey Sausage I not only heard it from Limbaugh, I also heard it from MSNBC, CNN, Fox,, CBS etc...
I listen to many differents news outlets.
Here are two reasons why you are wrong.
First. Liberal talk radio is a failure because they never cover the facts. They never dig.
Liberal publications always use a headline on a story that gives one interpretation but when you read further into the story the headline usually makes no sense.
Because they know that Libs dont have the will to dig for all of the facts. So the headline is what they use to form opinion.
Why is it that Al Gore will not debate any person that opposes his view on Global Warming(Now called Climate Change). Because the facts are not on his side.
If he were confident in his belief he would jump at the chance to debate anybody.
The founder of the Weather channel is waiting to debate anytime anywhere.
I am telling you. Obama Presidency is going to make Rush filthy rich and his listeners so much dumber.
JamesB understands full well that this woman is desperate, that she lives out of her car, and that she was asking for help in front of a big audience, risking deep humiliation and swallowing her shame, because she was out of options.
He just doesn't care. Because he isn't a human being. He's a right-wing soulless vampire who daydreams of breaking the fingers of people trying to crawl into his lifeboat.
I wish MMFA would enact a "humans only" rule for this site, so we wouldn't have to deal with crap from JamesB, AnotherAmerican, etc. any more.
jjamele2880 calls jamesb "a right-wing soulless vampire"....well jj, you have insulted soulless vampires everywhere and receive 10 demerits. You are now jjamele2870. Sorry to do it to you but rules are rules. If you would have stated that Jamesb is a rambling repeater of rushs' ridiculous revolting rants of rubbish, you'd be jj2900 or even 3000.
This demerit has been imposed by the "Vampires Have Fillings Too" Foundation.
Of course Vampires have fillings, because late-night snacking causes cavities.
I just IGNORE Rush. Makes life much more fun.
These people want handouts and arent even embarassed. Yet you guys at MM are worried about Limbaugh.
We have 2 adults here who combined cant make rent. Something I have been doing alone since I was 18. Of course I have been married for 15 years and have 2 kids and am still able to pay for 2 cars, a house, health insurance, car insurance, food, and all the things my wife and kids need.
Oh and media matters and all you other kool aid drinkers. be sure to comment on my spelling or grammer so you can ignore the real issue of our welfare state.
I suppose you think they're unemployed and homeless because they're lazy, or what?
What is the reason.
Yes they are lazy. I live in the south and believe me I see these type of people everyday. I went to high school with people like this.
Do this for me; go to any federal, state or local government facility where there is some type of program for assistance and tell me what you see.
What is there to indicate laziness? Choosing to live in a car because you just don't like working would go well beyond that into the realm of mental illness. The idea that people live like this because they're lazy is laughable.
Yea 2 adults are mentally ill.
You people cannot seem to accept the fact that there are millions of people who are content to live paycheck to paycheck or off of the backs of others. Period.
Have you noticed all of the mentally ill people that show up wanting free stuff when Nobama speaks. And what is really sick is the fact he relishes it. It makes him feel like a king.
One last thing. I notice when a sight like Media Matters filters comments before posting them there seems to be many more Obama/Welfare supporters.
When a non filtered site has postings the rate of disapproval is 90%.
Another site I posted on was so outraged by the begging Obama Morons that they stopped posting.
there are millions of people who are content to live paycheck to paycheck or off of the backs of others.
It must really suck believe in lies and to be such a hateful person. I feel sorry for your kids having to be subjected to such an un-christian, un-American attitude.
Poor little hamster. Running on the wheel because Rush tells him to, repeating his little soulless lies as if they weren't just transparent bigotry.
Keep running, little hamster, keep running.
"Yea 2 adults are mentally ill."
It happens. Is your suggestion that only children have psychological problems?
"You people cannot seem to accept the fact that there are millions of people who are content to live paycheck to paycheck or off of the backs of others. Period."
I'm sure these homeless people would be very content to get any paychecks at all.
"Have you noticed all of the mentally ill people that show up wanting free stuff when Nobama speaks. And what is really sick is the fact he relishes it. It makes him feel like a king."
This would seem to be an exercise in mind-reading.
"One last thing. I notice when a sight like Media Matters filters comments before posting them there seems to be many more Obama/Welfare supporters."
New posters are moderated. It's not for everyone, and there are many conservatives here who can post freely. It is a "non-filtered site", generally.
mmhmaster, Do you mean in the South or in Pa. I believe you are talking color aren't you? Well then, I'll be honest. In Pittsburgh, 95% are white. In Central Pa., the same thing maybe more are white.. Therefore, I, as a white person, I take offense that you are calling Caucasians lazy.
P.S. You will find that people on this site will be happy that uncontrollable hardship hasn't found your door. I'll pray it doesn't. But that in know way makes you judge and jury unless race clouds your brain function.
that in NO way...stoopid keyboard.
I think he really just wanted to brag about having a job and handling the basic expenses that the vast majority of us adults take care of.
Usually the ones that consider supporting themselves a great accomplishment that have the least sympathy for those who aren't so well off.
Col., That is the game of the DA Rush Limbaugh. Keep all people at a "lower" life status fighting amongst themselves. It is great insulation for those who are in a different financial realm. DA Rushs' problem is that eyes are being opened by this new blood in government and his plans are being ruined. mmhmaster doesn't seem to realize that he should be thankful about what he has not what someone else doesn't. Because the next neighborhood over, they may consider him lazy for not having as much as them. Lest we forget, one serious health issue and mmh may be considered lazy.
"Lest we forget, one serious health issue and mmh may be considered lazy."
And we have a winner.
This is the same pattern of behavior I see so often among conservatives:placing blame on those in horrible situations so that they don't have to sympathize. People held without trial are terrorists...the homeless are lazy (or "homeless by choice" as Reagan said)...those that go hungry are on diets (Reagan again)...Katrina victims were stupid, etc. My favorite, as I've noted before, was an ex-girlfriend of mine who said that everyone in prison - everyone - was actually guilty of what they were convicted of.
If only reality were so simple.
Only one year of experience, then. You post like a snotty teenager.
Limbaugh is a big fat joke with alot of money and no guts. he sits in a chair and gets paid alot of money to spew hatred. He and Hannity are so out of line and really need to be put in their place. Thanks to this site they are being chopped down to size. It may take a little more chopping for the Limbaugh character.
Isn't anyone getting this. Both Limbaugh and Hannity have been pushing this clip of Henrietta, mocking her with sarcasm and misrepresenting what she said, perpetuating the steroetype that she is just another poor black women looking for a government handout - It's obviouse that these 2 were trying to stir up the image of the "welfare Cadillac" family. Hannity's largest listeners/viewers come from a sector in this country where racism is part of life, and Limbaugh has been removed from several (sport) shows for his racist comments.
YOU are exactly right..This is a new LOW for Limbaugh and Hannity...they push the Joe sixpack/Joe the plummer image of the"common man" but it is obvious that whenever the common man(or woman) is black,they spin it into a negative!!!A homeless woman and child living in a car were just asking for help to get housing..not a home makeover!!!!!Lets see if Michael Steele counsels Limbaugh and his buddy Sean on their lack of sensitivity....nahhhhhhhhh its out and out racism as I see it!!!Disgusting!!!
It is sheer waste of words, energy and time trying to counter and contradict, such carefully and cirmuspectly coined and crafty manipulations by sponsored and sick souls, through any explicit or explanatory clarifications. Limbaugh and the likes shall keep Rushing recklessly to desperately diffuse, distract and ridicule real heartbreaking sights, scenes and stories like that of Henrietta Hughes, unless they are repulsed, derided and deterred by compelling them to be Defensive, which is very simple, easy and faultlessly efficient, being ideally licit, legitimate, logical and perfect. It is a pabulum - food for thought - for my fellow savant members of our esteemed Media Matters for America, specially its erudite CEO & Founder, Mr.David Brock.
Why can't you make the same assumptions about "people that really need help"? And why would you want to belong to a party that has support from "people that really need help", then?
"I live in the south and believe me I see these type of people everyday. I went to high school with people like this."
I also would like to see some explanation for that. You went to high school with homeless people? Or are you referring to black people?
Again, the posts of those who are new are moderated. Everyone else posts freely. Your theory does not hold water.
Also order the posts newest to oldest.
You're imagining things. Yes, new posters are moderated more so than others, but eventually, if you're hear for a period of time, you won't be filtered unless you violate the terms of service.
There are many regular conservative posters here and most are great to discuss things with.
But then there are others, who come claiming that they've cornered the market on facts. Claiming they're being filtered, etc. We were all filtered during a probationary period and we've all had things deleted for various reasons. Grow a pair and deal with life or go somewhere where you'll feel better appreciated.
And if you look at the top right of the uppermost post a comment window you'll see where you can either view the posts threaded (ON), with posts and the comments linked to that particular post or OFF which lists all posts in the order they were posted.
Hey, stop it! STOP IT! Before you bring up any BS about filtering posters answer Brabantio's questions :"Why can't you make the same assumptions about "people that really need help"? And why would you want to belong to a party that has support from "people that really need help", then?...
"I live in the south and believe me I see these type of people everyday. I went to high school with people like this."
I also would like to see some explanation for that. You went to high school with homeless people? Or are you referring to black people? Answer the questions!!!!