Scarborough, Buchanan mislead on Obama's tax plan
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SUMMARY: On Morning Joe, Pat Buchanan stated that under President Obama's plan, "we're looking at permanent tax increases," while Joe Scarborough said that the White House suggested it will propose "an increase of taxes." But neither Scarborough nor Buchanan noted, as Peter Orszag said during a later segment, that Obama proposes letting the Bush tax cuts expire only "for those who are earning more than ... a quarter of a million dollars a year."
During the February 23 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, political analyst Pat Buchanan stated that under President Obama's plan, "we're looking at permanent tax increases. The taxes are going to go up to 40 percent personal rate; capital gains are going up to 20 percent." During the same segment, co-host Joe Scarborough said that the White House suggested it will propose "an increase of taxes. Of course, they're increasing taxes at the same time the economy is collapsing." But neither Scarborough nor Buchanan noted that, as Peter Orszag, director of the Office of Management and Budget, stated during a subsequent Morning Joe segment, Obama proposes letting the Bush tax cuts expire only "for those who are earning more than ... a quarter of a million dollars a year." Even after Orszag's appearance, Buchanan claimed that "personal income taxes are going up" without noting that Obama proposed doing this only for a limited number of people.
Scarborough's and Buchanan's claims echo a conservative talking point during the presidential campaign that Obama proposed "rais[ing] your taxes."
On Morning Joe, Orszag stated that "those tax provisions for high-income taxpayers above a quarter of a million dollars a year are scheduled to expire at the end of 2010. Under the president's budget, they would be allowed to expire, again, only for those who are earning more than -- more than a quarter of a million dollars a year." Additionally, The New York Times reported on February 21 that the Obama administration seeks to cut the deficit in half by the end of this first term, in part through "higher taxes on the wealthy":
Mr. Obama will also call for letting the Bush tax cuts on income, dividends and capital gains lapse after 2010 for individuals who make more than $250,000 a year. But while the top rate for income would rise to 39.6 percent, the top rate for capital gains and dividends would be 20 percent.
As a candidate, Mr. Obama called for immediately repealing those tax cuts. He decided instead to keep them in place through 2010, as scheduled, reflecting the widespread belief that raising taxes further depresses economic activity.
From the February 23 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:
BUCHANAN: I think the federal government is going to have an increase in size; it is never going back again. I think these Republican governors are fighting against an increase in the size of state government that will never go back again. I think we're looking down the road -- even though we're Republicans and conservatives in a lot of ways -- we're looking at permanent tax increases. The taxes are going to go up to 40 percent personal rate; capital gains are going up to 20 percent. I think the estate taxes are going to go back up to where they were. I think --
SCARBOROUGH: Well, and by the way --
BUCHANAN: -- that we are never going back again in our lifetime to what it was under Reagan. We've got a huge expansion of government at all levels.
SCARBOROUGH: And what Pat just went through there, Mika, was what the White House has suggested they are going to propose in this budget -- an increase of taxes. Of course, they're increasing taxes at the same time the economy is collapsing. Conservatives would say that's how you destroy the economy. At the same time, though, we've got another great challenge that you and I have been talking about on this show every morning, and that is our increasing federal debt. You cannot continue to allow the debt to explode -- the deficit to explode -- so there's a part of this that some would suggest is responsible.
[...]
SCARBOROUGH: Let's start with the tax increases. First of all, very quickly, just so everybody knows out there, Barack Obama -- made this promise during the campaign: He was going to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, rates to go up. But at the same time, even he expressed concern if you do that during an economic downturn, it might increase the downturn. Why the change of direction, at least from his modified campaign promise?
ORSZAG: Well, I don't think there is any change at all. I think you'll see those tax provisions expiring after the economy is -- should be recovering. It's not going to happen this year.
SCARBOROUGH: And explain that. That's an -- that's an important --
ORSZAG: OK.
SCARBOROUGH: That's an important point. Explain these don't really take effect for a couple of years, right?
ORSZAG: Yeah, those tax provisions for high-income taxpayers above a quarter of a million dollars a year are scheduled to expire at the end of 2010. Under the president's budget, they would be allowed to expire, again, only for those who are earning more than -- more than a quarter of a million dollars a year.
SCARBOROUGH: So President Obama would have the option -- let's say halfway to -- through -- to -- through 2010, unemployment's at 12 or 13 percent, GDP continues to fall -- and let's hope to God that's not the case -- but you all still reserve the right at that point to revisit tax increases, right?
ORSZAG: Sure, one can always -- we're gonna have to, you know, see how everything goes, but we're trying to avoid that situation in the first place. That was the whole point of the recovery act: to try to jump start the economy and avoid those double-digit unemployment rates.
[...]
MIKA BRZEZINSKI (co-host): And Pat Buchanan, I wonder what these now new goals that we're hearing being set by the White House to cut the deficit in half by the end of President Obama's term. In a way, I guess you would think that some Republicans or some conservatives would support that. That is, until you look at --
BUCHANAN: Right.
BRZEZINSKI: -- how they plan to do that.
BUCHANAN: Well, yeah, exactly. And of course they got tax increases -- capital gains are going up, personal income taxes are going up, state taxes are going up, and all that. So Republicans would oppose it. It's also is PR, as [NBC News chief White House correspondent] Chuck Todd sort of indicated, a lot of it. But to Joe's point: 1951 I believe it was, Harry Truman nationalized the steel mills, and it was an enormous Supreme Court case -- enormous battle that convulsed the country for weeks and months on end -- and finally they slapped Harry Truman down, said you can't do it. Now we're talking about nationalizing --
SCARBOROUGH: Right.
BUCHANAN: -- the banks. It's this week's story.
At some point this morning, Joe blurted out that "You just don't raise taxes during a recession".
Okay... fair enough... but you also don't cut taxes on the rich while you're fighting two wars. Allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire would just be undoing that mistake. The people affected have benefitted greatly from the past 8 years, while middle class income has stagnated.
ok, i had like joe for awhile and thought Mika was kinda cool, and Pat was trying to relive the good ol days. this is now getting just silly. i mean pat isnt part of a presidential administration anymore, joe isn't in congress, and mika needs her spine adjusted or something to put some steel in it. about the only good thing on their show anymore is willie geist and his stuff and courtney hazlett, and the occasions when mika's dad is on. at least he has stones to say what he thinks.
Funny, I just had another wingnut...oops, I mean a fairliberal... on yesterday's NYT/Marsh mouse thread who condemned me for not treating fiction the same as fact. Obama's tax plan is oneof those topics where conservatives have just decided to accept the made up version of reality that the media is feeding them.
Last week, I got this "letter from Granddad" email forwarded to me. I knew I'd be able to find it on the internets, but was surprised at how many sources were claiming it as a true story, even passing it off as their own real-life situation.
Apparently, the grandparents have been helping out the granddaughter for years, as is common for grandparents. Let's pretend this is non-fiction-- Granny & Grandpa, I'd assume, are in their 60s at least,probably retired or close to it, have their home paid off, and are obviously still pulling in a quarter million a year, as they're claiming to be bracing for the effects of Obama's tax plan.
Since they'll be taxed slightly higher on any amount over the quarter mil, they've fired their housekeeper, and have disowned their granddaughter. There's your family values and traditional morals.
My co-workers (one a genetic Republican, the other calls herself "in the middle", but gets most of her info via emails from her Republican relatives) thought it was brilliant, and didn't know why I wasn't impressed. I explained that it was nonsense. One co-worker then told another that I only like to hear the Democrat side of things, while they're more open-minded.
The biggest fight my husband had with his mother was when I asked him to politely ask her to take me off her "Obama is a socialist and atheists/the ACLU are ruining America" email list.
She doesn't send me the emails anymore, and my blood pressure has improved because of it, but now I almost regret the whole exchange, because I'm apparently missing out on some great comedic nonsense!
Get back on the list, Mrs. T, I'm in the loop for a couple of these propaganda distribution machines. It's fascinating (and funny) to me that I can reply to virtually every one of these, linking to a credible source that shows them to be complete crap, and the true believers are completely unaffected.
Then again, there's enough of them here that you don't really need to get the emails to get a good idea of the average Republican voter and their connection to reality.
For a little insight into the mindset of these people, watch HBO's "Right America: Feeling Wronged".
I know it's by Nancy Pelosi's daughter and is one-sided, but it still gave me the heebie jeebies.
i think my connection to reality is quite good compared to other republicans (in truth neo cons).
and i have a few crazy ideas but im sure that long term they would work. and im sure by the "mainstream" party i would be branded as a liberal.
jbomb, I didn't mean to lump all Republicans in there, or at least not all conservatives.I should have said the "average and below" GOP voter.
lol yeah, i feel like ive gone the way of the dodo in some respects
No, I think you've gone in the other direction -evolving, not devolving. Your old neocon friends are in the tar pits, shaking their reptilian fists with the non-opposable thumbs at you for not refusing to adapt.
i wouldn't call a single neo con my friend, but i get the point you are trying to make.
neo cons i find are not all that new, if you think about it. they sound very much like the Radical Republicans who sought vengence after the Civil War.
A vital part of the Republican fantasy is to portray people making over $250,000 as "middle class", even though the median family income is around $50,000.
Yup, Nerz. And many of those who forward these emails to me are between that median and six figures, but don't seem to realize it.
I think part of the problem is that we are so bombarded with stories about celebrities and professional athletes who make millions... $250,000 doesn't sound like a lot of money any more... but it is. The vast majority of people will never see that kind of money.
I always think of this when people here in California talk about "1% of Californians pay 50% of taxes" or some nonsense like that. And it's like, well, yeah, because Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie count California as their state of residence. Apparently middle class people here think that they're part of that 1%, and the other 99% are all illegal immigrants.
Republicans like to toss around statistics like that. What they won't talk about is how much of the nation's wealth is owned by that top 1%. I don't have the number handy, but I guarantee you it's more than 50%.
Okay, I'll correct myself. The top 1%, as best I can tell, still control less than 50%. I was probably thinking of the top 5%.
Either way, the percentage of wealth they control is still greater than their percentage of the tax burden.
Part of the problem these days is that the talking heads are part of the crowd that will see their taxes go up.
Exactly... For example, why should the avergae Joe making $50,000 a year listen to Rush Limbaugh complain about taxes when Limbaugh makes about $30 million a year? Limbaugh has a dog in the fight...the average Joe doesn't.
Ronald Reagan's tax increases have been permanent for 27 years now. Why does Buchanan still deify him?
because he must. because if he deified Reagan's idol then no neo con would have any legs to stand on.
and Reagan's idol was none other than Barry Goldwater himself.
the same man that no neo con will speak of because they feel he is too liberal. even though he himself admits that his ideals had been warped by the neo cons.
Barry Goldwater would be embarrassed by what the Republican Party has become. After Bush's record deficits within a year after inheriting a record surpluss, combined with the funny-mentalist's high-jacking of the party's platform... He's rolling in his grave.
amen nice guy. your absolutly right. he would. as ive said before we need Barry to rise up. better yet let TR be brought back.
cause for damn sure TR would do precisly what he did to Taft when he decided to run for his last time.
and if you have never heard the story. well here it is as short as i can make it.
TR was on one of his African hunts, and a messenger arrived bearing a letter from an old friend of TR's. the jist of it was everything was tanking and that the people were fed up with Taft, that everything TR had built Taft was letting it crumble. so TR got in a car and drove to the nearest port, got passage back to the US as fast as he could, didnt even bother to change his clothes mind you, so he was still in his safari gear. he gets into DC and people see him and everyone who sees him is delighted. he gets to the White House and Tafts secretary sees him and immediatly calls the President. Taft, seeing out the window TR's approach and seeing the sheer anger on his face runs and hides in a closet, well of course Taft cant close the door. TR gets to the secretary and she is too scared to say anything to him, so TR starts a room by room search passing people, stinking to high heaven, and finally find the room Taft is hiding in, goes to the closet and finds the President cowering in fear. TR grabs him by his collar and berates him for destroying what he had worked so hard to build and standing Taft up on his feat, punches him and knocks him out cold. and then after further verbal beratement swore he would run against him and beat him.
I am still waiting for the chance to convince my boss that his company exists only to give me a job and health care. When will the wisdom from heaven fall upon him?
Unless your "boss" plans to do all the work himself, his company depends on it's employees every bit as much as they do on it, more so in good times. Like it our not, employees are shakeholders in a corporation every bit as much as the shareholders are. If if companies don't "give people jobs" then how do they get the money to spend on YOUR company's products? You con's are so narrowly self-focused and near-sighted.
Sometimes I get a kick out of old jughead and his mornin' joke. It is like he wants everyone to like him. And he attempts to come across as so reasonable. He wants to get his propaganda out there and you can tell he is frustrated with Fox news.
He goes so far as to post on Huffington and then yells on tv about old men in pajamas who know nothing and who write such polarizing things.
Then he will turn around and just lash into somebody like Schuster.
You will notice that he no longer harrangues Rahm for his language ever since he got caught using the f word on the air. hahahahahahaha.
He gets his faxes from the RNC and then rewrites them. After these lies are perpetrated on his show he then wraps up by reitering how he and newt saved western civilization.