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Rove echoed GOP distortion of top Obama adviser's research on stimulus effectiveness

March 01, 2009 5:40 pm ET

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SUMMARY: On This Week, Karl Rove echoed House Republicans' distortion of research by CEA chairwoman Christine Romer in claiming that their alternative stimulus bill "produced 50 percent more jobs at half the cost" of President Obama's economic recovery plan. In fact, according to the White House, "Romer's view is that the House analysis is absolutely incorrect" and "the plan the President supports would result in substantially greater job creation than the House Republican plan."

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On the March 1 broadcast of ABC's This Week, Fox News contributor Karl Rove echoed House Republicans' distortion of research by White House Council of Economic Advisers (CEA) chairwoman Christine Romer and her husband in claiming that the GOP's alternative stimulus bill "produced 50 percent more jobs at half the cost" of President Obama's economic recovery plan. Rove claimed: "[T]he House Republicans took their plan and ran it through the Obama chairman of the economic advisers' econometric model -- Romer. And it produced 50 percent more jobs at half the cost, according to the economic model used by the Obama White House." In fact, Republicans' claim that the Romers' economic model predicts that the GOP plan will produce 6.2 million jobs has been criticized as a distortion of the Romers' research. As the blog Think Progress noted, according to the White House, "Romer's view is that the House analysis is absolutely incorrect" and "the plan the President supports would result in substantially greater job creation than the House Republican plan."

According to a February 13 post on FactCheck.org, "The figure comes from the House Republicans' own calculations" that were based on "[f]lipping the Romers' calculations":

How did Republicans arrive at their 6.2 million figure? The Web site of Rep. Dave Camp, the ranking Republican member of the Committee on Ways & Means and a sponsor of the substitute, explains that the GOP's estimate is based on a 2007 paper by economists Christina and David Romer, a husband-wife team at the University of California, Berkeley. Yep, that's the same Christina Romer who is now chair of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers. The Romers' analysis of tax changes since World War II concluded that "tax changes have very large effects" on the economy. Specifically, they said their data suggested that a "tax increase of one percent of GDP [gross domestic product] lowers real GDP by about three percent" or lower, but at least by 2.2 percent. Flipping the Romers' calculations, GOP staffers figured that a tax cut of 1 percent of GDP would produce growth of 2.2 percent. Then, using a different report (Christina Romer's analysis of Obama's plan), the Republicans further calculated that their own party's proposed cuts would yield 6.2 million jobs over two years.

Republicans point to Romer's position in Obama's administration, as if to prove their figures are justified. However, these aren't her calculations. Plus, the Romers stressed in that 2007 report that their estimates were larger than other economists had come up with and "are not highly precise." (Indeed, in the CBO's analysis, which it says gives a range that "encompasses a majority of economists' views," the nonpartisan group gives a high and low multiplier for several government measures; the tax cut multiplier ranges from 0.5 to 1.7.) More recently, Christina Romer, in a Jan. 9 paper estimating the effects of the Democratic plan, didn't use the 2.2 multiplier even though that meant a lower job estimate for the tax cuts in Obama's plan. Instead, she used a 1 percent multiplier.

We were unable to contact Romer directly, but a White House spokesperson told us the GOP analysis "makes a fundamental error" by assuming that added jobs from tax cuts would show up by the end of next year. "It fails to take into account the fact that tax changes affect the economy with delays," the spokesperson said. Actually, even if the 2.2 multiplier were correct, the number of jobs added due to the GOP's proposed tax cuts would be only 1.7 million by the end of next year, according to White House calculations. GOP leaders themselves acknowledged in a document detailing their calculations that any such projections "are largely speculative, and the conclusions are generally dictated by the assumptions made by the authors."

In a January 31 blog post, University of California-Berkeley economist Brad DeLong posted "White House talking points" responding to, in his words, "House Republican claims that their stimulus is better":

CEA Director Romer's view is that the House analysis is absolutely incorrect. The CEA estimates that the Republican plan would create only 1.7 million jobs, compared to 4.2 million for the Democratic plan.

Question: The House claims that based on the research of CEA Chair Christy Romer, their plan would create 6.2 million jobs. Isn't that a more effective way of jumpstarting the economy?

Answer: The Republican House analysis is flat wrong in its claim that the House Republican stimulus is more effective. No matter what your analytical assumptions, as long as they are consistent the plan the President supports would result in substantially greater job creation than the House Republican plan.

Independent groups that have analyzed the President's plan -- from Macroeconomic Advisors to former McCain advisor Mark Zandi -- have confirmed that the President's plan will create between 3-4 million jobs -- twice the number of the House plan. The President supports takes [sic] a broad, comprehensive approach. It includes substantial tax cuts -- many of which mirror the provisions in the House Republican plan. But it also includes new spending programs that many economists across the spectrum believe will help create jobs and give our economy a kickstart right now.

Additionally, during the discussion, Rove claimed: "Every House Republican voted for an alternative stimulus measure. It included expansion of the unemployment insurance. It included expansion of food stamps, and it included expansion of COBRA health benefits." However, nine House Republicans voted against the Republican alternative to the stimulus bill. Moreover, the bill does not include an "expansion of COBRA health benefits" or an "expansion of food stamps."

From the March 1 broadcast of ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos:

ROVE: You know, with all due respect, to suggest that adding $2.9 trillion to the deficit in eight years with two wars, Katrina, 9-11, and a tech bubble bursting makes us somehow -- the Republicans unable to talk about fiscal responsibility, when this president, in his own budget document right here, says he's going to add $3.2 trillion to the deficit in the first 20 months and 11 days. He's going to -- he is going to double it in the first four years and triple it if he gets another term.

STAN GREENBERG (Democratic pollster and strategist): Well, it's a remarkable lecture, given the performance. But the --

KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL (editor and publisher of The Nation): Yeah.

GREENBERG: -- fact is, this is --

ROVE: You're going to do heck of a lot better than we did if a judgment is added to the deficit.

GREENBERG: This is the problem. If you look at the ABC poll, you have 70 percent -- three-quarters of the country watching their family, themselves losing jobs, losing income. At that moment, we have the passage of an economic renewal plan that provides unemployment benefits with health care being -- for people being laid off. And at that moment, the Republican Party is defining itself both by its opposition to that, as well as its continued push of the same kind of top-end tax cuts that produced this economic situation.

GEORGE WILL (syndicated columnist): Everybody wants this to work. We want the economy to recover. And, you know, you argue who's better, the Red Sox or the Yankees. At the end, someone says, "Well, that's why they play the game." And in the next four years, we're going to find out.

I don't think George Bush, when he was elected, intended to spend his time on Iraq. I don't think Mr. Obama plans to spend his time on what may be his biggest problem, which is inflation, two years from now. We're talking about $1.7 trillion. You know how to spend a hundred point -- $1.7 trillion? A million dollars an hour, 365 days a year for 200 years to spend that.

VANDEN HEUVEL: George, most economists are worried about deflation at this point. You can do the Red Sox and other team. I don't think for millions of Americans hurting out there, seeking answers, that they think of this as a game. And I also think that there are Republicans -- the de facto head of the Republican Party right now, Rush Limbaugh, does want Obama to fail. That is very destructive for those in this country, as I said, who seek jobs, who are losing their pensions, who don't have health care. Fourteen thousand Americans lose their health care every day. This cannot be sustained.

ROVE: Let me set the record straight on something. Every House Republican voted for an alternative stimulus measure. It included expansion of the unemployment insurance. It included expansion of food stamps, and it included expansion of COBRA health benefits. The core of it was a cut in the tax rates, the bottom two tax rates. If you're paying taxes at a 10 percent rate, it went to 5. If you were paying at 15, it went to 10. It also included a lot of small-business tax cuts. And --

STEPHANOUPOLOUS: But you don't dispute that President Obama --

ROVE: Let me finish.

STEPHANOUPOLOUS: -- will lower taxes for 95 percent of working people, do you?

ROVE: No, no. Well, look, I'll come back to that in a second. But the House Republicans took their plan and ran it through the Obama chairman of the economic advisers' econometric model -- Romer. And it produced 50 percent more jobs at half the cost, according to the economic model used by the Obama White House. Now, does Obama cut taxes for 95 percent of taxpayers? Yes. Including the 45 percent of taxpayers who do not have a federal income tax liability.

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    • Author by fmbanker87 (March 01, 2009 7:03 pm ET)
         
      I saw Romer on t.v. yesterday I guess it was. What is she taking? She was bouncing all over the place, that corpulent body of hers shaking with every move. She was chirping about how growth will be close to 4% next year, etc. etc. Not a word of it could be believed, because this administration is driving us right into a ditch. Harper the Canadian p.m. was on t.v. today. They have not had one bank fail. They are cutting taxes, not raising them. He favors the Colombia Free Trade Agreement, but the Dems beholden to the unions won't go for it. That's how dems treat their friends, kick them in the teeth. Obama promisted to tear up Nafta, but he'll do nothing of the kind. Anything he tries to do with Canada will be slammed down his throat. We buy most of our energy from Canada, and they can cut that off. They can ship it to China. They've got what we need and we'll get on our knees and do the dirty to get it. The chief economics writer for the financial times was on with zakaria this a.m. He said Obama has focused on all the right things. the economy, housing and education. and in each instance he came up short. The poor man could only shake his head, saying, all those smart people and they can't figure out what to do. Israel is facing a recession, and Netenyahu promises to reduce taxes. Not us, not only do we not mind the pain of recession, we want it as deep and painful as possible. Well, that's what you'll get folks. Enjoy rolling in the mire that is the crap of barack hussein obama.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (March 01, 2009 7:19 pm ET)
           

        Newsflash, we are already in the ditch. Obama's plan is gonna get us out of it.

        BTW, why are republicans pushing a plan that no one has even read as a solution to the plan Obama already passed (and that they claimed no one has read)? Hipocrites...

        Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (March 01, 2009 7:36 pm ET)
           

        Obama promisted to tear up Nafta

        I want him to tear up NAFTA but that's not his position.

        Israel is facing a recession, and Netenyahu promises to reduce taxes.

        Obama has promised the same thing for 95 percent of Americans but to the far right that doesn't count; it's only a taxcut if you give it to people who don't need it.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by fmbanker87 (March 01, 2009 7:43 pm ET)
             

          those really are not tax cuts, you'll be taxed on the amount next year.  check with your cpa.  it's a temporary credit.  And in 2011 he'll increase taxes on all of us.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (March 01, 2009 8:09 pm ET)
               

            And in 2011 he'll increase taxes on all of us...

            Report Abuse
          • Author by loonz (March 01, 2009 8:35 pm ET)
               

            The tax cuts will come at the beginning of 2011.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by mefirst (March 01, 2009 9:06 pm ET)
               

            i'm a little queasy about the deficits we will be running.  the difference is i say the same thing now as i said about bush.  claiming that obama is "driving us right into a ditch" is typical nonsense. obama came into office facing the worst economic crisis since the 30s.  we were already in the ditch after eight years of the republican way.  and all the republicans never had a word to say about deficits when it was bush.  obama is supposed to have straightened everything out in a little over a month. 

            Report Abuse
          • Author by thejbomb65 (March 01, 2009 11:26 pm ET)
               

            if thats what it takes to get out of the mess you and your neo con brethren brought us to then i say it is what must be done.

            and this is a conservative taking you to school.

            class dismissed

            Report Abuse
          • Author by historygeek001 (March 02, 2009 10:48 am ET)
               

            I hope nobody counts on you for financial analysis. 

            Report Abuse
        • Author by snoopy (March 01, 2009 7:45 pm ET)
             

          Why shouldn't Netenyahoo promise tax breaks? They get all their funding from the US, WE'RE paying for their tax cuts!

          Report Abuse
      • Author by LuvLuLu (March 01, 2009 8:07 pm ET)
           

        FMBanker, what difference does it make what her body looks like?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by fmbanker87 (March 01, 2009 8:26 pm ET)
             

          she consumes too much food, thus taxing our system, increasing co2 just to supply her with something to stuff in her fat face.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (March 01, 2009 8:37 pm ET)
               

            Gee, what a surprise. Conservatives are more concerned about looks than substance...

            Report Abuse
          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (March 01, 2009 9:33 pm ET)
               

            A Rush Limbaugh fan is criticizing someone for her weight?  Will wonders never cease?

            Report Abuse
          • Author by thejbomb65 (March 01, 2009 11:27 pm ET)
               

            and how much to do you spend on food in a given week? how much resources are you burning up

            Report Abuse
      • Author by LittleFuzzy (March 01, 2009 11:00 pm ET)
           

        Canada has not had a bank failure because the banks are regulated in their operation by the government.  Canada is also spending itself into deficit in order to decrease the impact of the economic crisis.

        Republicans kick their friends lower down.  The Republican administrations are no friend of free trade, imposing duties illegally and refusing to pay back their loot when courts/tribunals rule against them.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by thejbomb65 (March 01, 2009 11:25 pm ET)
           

        we were in a ditch to begin with. it was called the Bush Administration. ya know the same one that tried to destroy land around national parks by selling off mineral rights to their buddies.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by steeve (March 01, 2009 7:19 pm ET)
         
      "a tax increase of one percent of GDP lowers real GDP by about three percent" Reality, of course, spits all over that. See GDP after Clinton's tax increase, or the massive boom of the 50s and 60s, where a single wage earner could comfortably support a whole family when taxes were 70-90%. Republicans lie, but what's the CEA doing here? Whatever nuance might be in this study, it won't reach the media. Obama is proposing to raise the taxes of every pundit on TV. The media will be at rock bottom as it "debates" the most important bill of Obama's presidency. It's going to make me bald.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (March 01, 2009 7:22 pm ET)
           

        (normally I'm on a Mac.  No line breaks in IE7?  It's a fairly popular browser...)

        Report Abuse
    • Author by fmbanker87 (March 01, 2009 7:31 pm ET)
         
      in about 18 months you'll sing a different song, when your unemployment has run out, you're standing in breadlines, and living off of food stamps. Obama's plan hs nothing in it for any of us. Nothing. When asked by a small business owner what was in the bill for him, Joe Biden said if their customers had trouble getting across the creek, they'd make certain there was a bridge. THIS IS WHAT HE SAID! And then he couldn't remember the website number. Clueless idiot.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (March 01, 2009 7:39 pm ET)
           

        It will provide customers to small businesses.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by fmbanker87 (March 01, 2009 7:45 pm ET)
             
          watch your small businesses drop like flies. When they run out all the coal fired plants and your electric bills soar, those companies will come apart like a two-bit suitcase in the rain. but you don't care, because you have your stupid messiah.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (March 01, 2009 7:51 pm ET)
               

            A lot of them already did thanks to republican inaction last year when gas was pushing $4.00 a gallon. Republican inaction trashed small businesses. Now stop whining about the real messiah and go warship your false prophet rush.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by loonz (March 01, 2009 8:32 pm ET)
               

            because you have your stupid messiah

            I'm not a religious person.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by mr. l (March 01, 2009 10:41 pm ET)
               

            My electric has almost doubled in 2 years... DARN that Obama guy!

            Report Abuse
          • Author by thejbomb65 (March 01, 2009 11:33 pm ET)
               
            boy you neo cons really need to study your bible more closely. Jesus is supposed to be the messiah President Obama is our national leader, including yours. if you dont like it, get out!
            Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (March 01, 2009 7:46 pm ET)
           

        Nothing for you. Plenty for the rest of us.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by thejbomb65 (March 01, 2009 11:31 pm ET)
           

        yeah show me a credible website where that came from

        and if you say worldnetdaily, thepowerline, fox noise, or bloomburg then you are nothing but a parrot for neo cons

        or should i call you one of the many mindless sheep in the flock of Darth Rush and Darth Karl

        Report Abuse
    • Author by fmbanker87 (March 01, 2009 7:37 pm ET)
         
      here's what Obama supporter Warren Buffet had to say:By Rick Levinson Feb. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Billionaire Warren Buffett said the economy will be “in shambles” for the rest of this year as financial firms take losses tied to reckless loans made during the housing boom. The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index will probably gain in three-quarters of the next 44 years, just as it did in the period since Buffett took over Berkshire Hathaway Inc. in 1965, he said today in his annual letter to the company’s shareholders. While Buffett and business partner Charlie Munger can’t predict how stocks will perform in 2009, they’re certain “that the economy will be in shambles throughout 2009 -- and, for that matter, probably well beyond,” he wrote. Gross domestic product shrank at a 6.2 percent annual pace from October through December, the most since 1982, the Commerce Department said yesterday in Washington. Buffett said the consequences of the U.S. housing bubble are now “reverberating through every corner of our economy.” you gonna listen to him or that fat hack romer. her carbon foot print is larger than Al Gore's, she eats so much.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (March 01, 2009 7:42 pm ET)
           

        How is what he said any different from what the Obama administration or most economists have said?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (March 01, 2009 7:49 pm ET)
           

        Yeah, so? Everyone knows we're gonna see worse before we see better again. And then, as expected, you finish off with another slanderous insult against someone you don't like. Pretty clear you really didn't have a point to begin with now.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by LuvLuLu (March 01, 2009 8:13 pm ET)
             

          This is another example of one of the dirty tricks that the right are trying to pull.

          They are trying to pretend that if Obama's plan wasn't in effect, we'd be okay after this year. That's why they are making such a big deal out of the fact that much of the money from the stimulus package isn't going out until next year.

          First off, if money needed to get pumped into the economy this year, then Bush fell down on the job, because it takes a while to get money into the economy for infrastructure and job creation. It's not something you'd want to just do willy-nilly. Secondly, all the economists say that it'll be a while before we begin a recovery, so they are just posing as being concerned about the money not getting into the economy fast enough. In reality, they are just out to falsely smear Obama with lies about how soon the money needs to get into the economy to help create jobs.

          How's it feel to have your devious behavior called out, FMBanker?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by fmbanker87 (March 01, 2009 8:42 pm ET)
               

            im not certain you have any idea what you are talking about.  i don't care about her looks, but she is cosuming more than her fair share.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by snoopy (March 01, 2009 9:17 pm ET)
                 

              You obviously are concerned about her looks because you keep bringing it up. You don't even know if she stuffs herself, she could have some medical condition going on, but then again, when idiots like your side make fun of Michael J. Fox without really understanding the issue, no surprise here. 

              Report Abuse
            • Author by thejbomb65 (March 01, 2009 11:37 pm ET)
                 
              and what do you look like may i ask? who gave you the right to judge anyone? oh wait thats right your a neo con and anyone who isnt you have the right to bash and make fun of. ya know when i was in high school, and by the way, im overweight but im going to a gym to try and work on loosing weight, i got made fun of alot andpicked on by bullies thats what you are. one of the idiotic jocks who put down everyone else because they dont look like you or act like you or dont have what you do. and ya know what. be a bully all you like. cause ya know what. you will get yours in the end. schooled again. class dismissed
              Report Abuse
            • Author by historygeek001 (March 02, 2009 10:53 am ET)
                 

              You're clearly concerned about her looks and you're not honest enough to admit it.  Where is your "concern" for Rush consuming too much? 

              Report Abuse
    • Author by LuvLuLu (March 01, 2009 8:06 pm ET)
         
      What a cad Karl Rove is. "Romer's view is that the House analysis is absolutely incorrect" and "the plan the President supports would result in substantially greater job creation than the House Republican plan." So, the people who he claims say one thing actually say the total opposite, but he wants credibility.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by jonesbiko7500 (March 01, 2009 10:01 pm ET)
         
      Why is Rove STILL on t.v. spreading lies and not in jail? Call your congressmen, call AG Holder to demand Rove testify before Congress.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by missgirl (March 01, 2009 11:49 pm ET)
         

      Why was Karl Rove the criminal even on this program and why didn't anyone mention the subpoenas he's ignored?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by wolf kotenberg (March 01, 2009 11:54 pm ET)
         
      Rove comes from an administration that created millions of jobs in China and Vietnam.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by fmbanker87 (March 02, 2009 3:49 am ET)
         
      i'm doing my best and moving to texas.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Marker (March 02, 2009 5:04 am ET)
           

        Move right next to the shrub, keep all the repugs in one area.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by bluhawk7398 (March 02, 2009 6:59 am ET)
         

      Who needs to listen to research on the effectiveness of stimulus? How about reality... I was working for a major industrial supplier when clinton signed nafta and whoops....my job went out of the U.S. I started over again and here we are....another democrat in the WH and whoops, laid off.... I have very personal reasons for doubting the supposed effectiveness of this stimulus plan coupled with the amount of spending obama has managed in a very short time.....

      Report Abuse
      • Author by H-Man (March 02, 2009 9:18 am ET)
           

        The stimulus plan was signed less than two weeks ago and Obama hasn't been in office two months. Yet you are blaming him for being laid off. Management at your company most likely made the decision to lay people off while the great decider Bush sat on the sidelines waiting to be replaced.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by steveanders_62273 (March 02, 2009 12:54 pm ET)
           

        Well some of that spending will be coming your way.  Obama will provide help paying for COBRA and will extend unemployment.  If there were another Republican in the White House you would not be getting that.  No one is claiming Obama's plans are going to be prefect, but you are exactly the person that Obama is trying to help.  Republicans have waged war on the workign class for the past 40 years and they keep lining up for another shot.  Let's look at the number of job losses and median wages that went down in the Bush administration while the super wealthy have continued to accrue more and more wealth.  Good luck in your job serach.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by Brabantio (March 02, 2009 7:41 am ET)
         

      Fmbanker

      So if anyone dares to talk about distribution of wealth, then they're a socialist.  But you want to determine what someone's "fair share" of food is?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Brabantio (March 02, 2009 7:47 am ET)
         

      Bluhawk

      I'm sorry you were laid off, but what did Obama do in such a short time that could possibly cause that?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by bluhawk7398 (March 02, 2009 2:16 pm ET)
           

        I'm replying to you because you are one of the only ones who does not respond with vitriolic hate to posts which they don't agree with, that aside, the point of my post was personal doubt of the democrats abilities to stimulate the current economy. I still stand by me earlier assertion that Obama has plenty of time to impress us yet... the coincidence of my losing jobs is , unfortulately tied to the democrats gaining the WH, hence my caution when listening to research/talking points which are understandably trying to be optimistic... BTW if there was any doubt, yes I am a conservative(not repub), and most true conservatives are praying that Obama can solve this problem b/4 the country goes much further...

        Report Abuse
    • Author by fmbanker87 (March 02, 2009 11:28 am ET)
         
      he doesn't believe in global warming, so he can do what he wants. she does believe in it, yet eats her way through iowas's corn harvest, and doesn't care that she is making things worse.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by steveanders_62273 (March 02, 2009 12:46 pm ET)
         

      Rush and ROve are not  the leaders of the Republican party.  Here is the real leader of the Republican party.  Of course he was on Fox this AM and they were drooling over him.  Asked if he was liked in school, he replied that he was home schooled.  Asked where he leranded about conservatism, he replied listening to Bill Bennet every day since he wass 8.  The let's us in the mind set of the Neo Cons.  Force right wing radion on a young child, don't allow child to get differing view points from an outside school.  These are the machines that they are creating.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/27/jonathan-krohn-13-year-ol_n_170642.html

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Brabantio (March 02, 2009 5:05 pm ET)
         

      "I'm replying to you because you are one of the only ones who does not respond with vitriolic hate to posts which they don't agree with, that aside, the point of my post was personal doubt of the democrats abilities to stimulate the current economy. I still stand by me earlier assertion that Obama has plenty of time to impress us yet..."

      I appreciate that, I try to have as much of a reasoned dialogue as I can.  I don't know if the stimulus will work either, but I don't see any viable alternatives.  Doing nothing isn't an option.  The main idea coming from Republicans is tax cuts, and I don't think that has the history to back it up.

      "the coincidence of my losing jobs is , unfortulately tied to the democrats gaining the WH, hence my caution when listening to research/talking points which are understandably trying to be optimistic..."

      I don't see the connection, though.  That's post hoc ergo propter hoc.  Most liberals as far as I've seen hate NAFTA for the very reason you do, obviously jobs were going to go out of country (personally I think outsourcing should be illegal), but I just don't see how anything Obama's done could have affected you personally at this stage.  It's the flipside of habitually wearing the same pair of socks you wore the day you hit two home runs in one game.  It's not based on a rational belief.

      "BTW if there was any doubt, yes I am a conservative(not repub), and most true conservatives are praying that Obama can solve this problem b/4 the country goes much further..."

      I hope that's true, because it's much harder to get things done with a partisan divide.  What I'd like to see is some banding together to make it clear to Republicans in Congress that Rush does not speak for all conservatives.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by steveanders_62273 (March 02, 2009 5:48 pm ET)
           

        It is nice to have a well thought out debat based on ideas.  What is getting us liberals upset is the fact that 80% of the country supported GW after 9/11 and gave him the benefit of the doubt.  What did he do after that?  He took every opportunities to infringe on liberties(wiretapping), reward his buddies(Haliburton in Iraq & Katrina and Blackwater), put incompetents in imoortant positions(Brownie, Alberto), gave tax breaks to the wealthiest, ran through the budget surplus.

        Now Pres. Obama can not make it a day with out attacks from the republicans.  Claims of socialism are not good debate, but attacksmeant to scare the uneducated and the base.  It is astonishing to me that Rush can go to CPAC and say I hope he fails.  What is weven worse is that no one will stand up to him in the party.

        Rush makes the claim that he was taken out of context but come on.  It would be one thing if he says I hope the legislation fails because...  Let's see this through, if he fails the country fails.  If he succeeds the country succeeds.  For him to say I hope his socialism fails is complete BS, becaus if he has any intelligence he knows that Obama is in no way advocating socialism.

        Report Abuse

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