"This is what's happening to our money": CNBC's Kudlow lights dollar bill on fire
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SUMMARY: On CNBC's The Call, while purporting to describe "the value of our money," Larry Kudlow lit a U.S. dollar bill on fire, destroying part of the bill -- a possible violation of Title 18, Section 333, of the U.S. Code.
During the March 19 edition of CNBC's The Call, while purporting to describe "the value of our money," co-host Larry Kudlow lit a U.S. dollar bill on fire, destroying part of the bill. In an August 2004 "Answer Desk" article, MSNBC.com senior producer John W. Schoen reported that "turning cash into ashes is a no-no, according to the U.S. Bureau of Engraving and Printing ... this is a violation of Title 18, Section 333, of the United States Code." Title 18, Section 333, states: "Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both."
In a December 19, 2007, article, PolitiFact.com reported that "Claudia Dickens, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, said it only becomes a violation when it is mutilated so much that it is 'unacceptable to a merchant or vending machine. That's defacing.' "
During The Call, Kudlow stated: "The Fed is kicking off its highly anticipated TALF [Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility] program later today. They're just going to throw more money at the economy. This is a day after announcing it will buy long-term treasuries and mortgage-backed securities." After introducing CNBC senior economics reporter Steve Liesman and asking him, "Are we going to do this in unison? You get your dollar bill?" Kudlow lit a U.S. dollar bill on fire, destroying part of the bill:
Kudlow has stated that he is considering a run for U.S. Senate.
From the March 19 edition of CNBC's The Call:
KUDLOW: The Fed is kicking off its highly anticipated TALF program later today. They're just going to throw more money at the economy. This is a day after announcing it will buy long-term treasuries and mortgage-backed securities. Nobody better to report on this one than our great friend, senior economics reporter Steve Liesman. More on the TALF. Are we going to do this in unison? You get your dollar bill?
LIESMAN: Oh, no, no, Larry.
KUDLOW: All right. You go ahead.
LIESMAN: Larry had asked what happened to his money. I said, "Put a lighter to it." But we'll do that later. But Larry, the important thing --
MELISSA FRANCIS (co-host): There you go. Yeah.
LIESMAN: Larry asked what's going to happen to his money.
KUDLOW: This is the value of our money. This is the value of our money.
LIESMAN: Oh my goodness.
KUDLOW: That's what's going on.
LIESMAN: OK.
KUDLOW: All right. I don't want to burn the place up, but unfortunately --
FRANCIS: Yikes.
KUDLOW: -- we are going to see a lot of people lighting flame to the U.S. dollar, which is going down in flames.
LIESMAN: Well, that's -- that's an interesting debate.
FRANCIS: [Inaudible] the fire alarm.
LIESMAN: We're going to have that debate later.
KUDLOW: Going down in flames. No one is thinking about it. No one is worrying about it. It's going down in flames.
LIESMAN: But, Larry, for the moment it looks like an underwhelming start to a program. The Fed and the Treasury hope it will be overwhelming when it comes to kick-starting the consumer credit and the consumer -- and the credit crisis.
I wonder... will this twerp actually be prosectuted under the letter of the law... or will the rightwing simply claim it is a violation of his rights in another attempt at disregarding the actual laws of the land to further their collective fantasy world they all live in?
I do wonder, and I hate to use a hypothetical here... but it is aweful tempting to assume that those that will come out and defend this idiot... would they be the same way if this were a liberal or progresive that had lit up a dollar?
who cares? so does mmfa want this guy prosecuted for this cable tv stunt? question is; would mmfa, or anyone here, even care if this was done during Bush's administration?
It WAS done during the Bush administration. Just not symbolically. And not one-at-a-time.
Now that's funny...I don't care who you are.
Is it illegal or not? Selectively picking those who you feel should be prosecuted just because you happen to not find it all that bad?
Good call...off with his head or at least six months in jail.
After we prosecute Kudlow we can get started on those 20 million illegal immigrants.
It's always good to see law and order compadres standing up.
Ummm .. OK ... but what is it with taking off someone's head ??
Clearly, you've got him confused with rove, gonzo and the late, unlamented, bush injustice department, little factually-challenged fella.
Any one who does this I want prosicuted because this is a form of stealing from the government.
Yes, and the Guv'mint hates competition.
I could have used that dollar today.
If this guy took the one dollar bill and ate it (or did whatever you can imagine), in private, I would not care. The fact that it is a 'cable stunt' makes him eligible for jail if it is a criminal act.
Who, literally. burned dollars during Bush adminsitration? Do you know what you care about? I think not.
I've never quite understood the rationale for this law. I get it so far that if you burn a bill so that it can't be used (up to the point that 51% remains), you can change it in for a new bill. But if you know that they purposely destroyed the bill, wouldn't it make sense just to fine the amount of the bill, or maybe two or five times that amount for punitive purposes? And actual prosecution and/or jail time costs money anyway. It doesn't make much sense to spend money for the sake of a single dollar bill.
Unless it's all symbolic, of course, in which case the test of whether it's acceptable to merchants seems rather meaningless.
it is because you are destoying government property. The bills are not your property but that of the government.
How about if I bury a dollar bill so that it can't be found, while also in a state that it would be protected from deterioration? That's not destruction, yet it seems to be doing something improper with someone else's possession. How about business owners who frame the first dollar they ever made?
That would be similare to stuffing your matteress though it would not be using for the intended purpose but it is not a crime.
Whether you're using that money as savings or stuffing, it's quite likely that money will be spent at some point. If I bury money with no intent to retrieve it, then that money is almost surely gone. My question is why isn't that a crime?
Maybe we should start looking at the letter of the law about everything. There won't be anyone left to guard the prisoners.
Give me a break with this phony outrage.
This is a crime and it is "stealing" from the government therefore we are all victums of the crime.
i'm a victim because some attention grabbing TV goon burns a dollar bill. ridiculous.
We are all victims because under the best understanding of a democratict repersentive government (what we have) every citizen is a part of the government.
if this was some movement or some groundswell to start burning money, perhaps law enforcement should step in, but it isn't and it never will be. People aren't about to burn money, some even steal it. it was a stupid stunt on TV, an isolated bit of lousy theater for cable watchers to relish. it shouldn't have even been mentioned here, let alone prosecuted. Our law enforement and courts have a few more things to worry about.
If a person comits a crime where others can see them comit the crime the need to be tried and let the judical system set things right. If this does not happen it tell wittnesses that you can brake the law and not have to pay any consiquences.
Nah, you landed that gig all by yourself, little fella. Ya sure as hell didn't need kudlow's help.
yup.. typical liberal screaming victim. If he burned the money it's himself who lost a buck, not you. The crocodile tears are getting old.
what I find amyusing is that I doubt there's a single left wing loon on here who would make any kind of stink if that was a US flag he burned on TV.. sort of like Bill Ayer's book cover, ya know?
Like it or not, that's free speech. I think most people would criticize him for it, but legally there's nothing questionable there.
And the proper way of disposing of old, worn flags is by burning them, so it's not inherently disrespectful anyway.
I'm married to a career military officer. I know how worn or tattered flag is to be disposed of- burned privately and respectfully. You obviously, in your disleftia, chose to not even see the "like BillAyer's book cover" part of the sentence- where a new flag is publicly burned and trampled. Of course you'd overlook that part. very predictable, and would try to turn it into "old flag disposal" as a distraction with the point of trying to make me look ignorant.
Good, then you know it couldn't possibly ever be illegal to burn the flag, and you surely know that comparing it to something that actually is illegal is nonsensical.
I really don't care about anything Ayers does or says. I don't suspect anyone else here does either.
Good, then you show your total ignorance. it is illegal to burn a flag in desecration. Even thlught he Supreme court overturned a case (Texas v Johnson allowable as noted in section d of th act) the flag protection act of 1989, (reaffirmed in is still on the books -
"
The text of the law reads:
So because the law is still on the books even though it's unenforceable by Supreme Court precedent, that's supposed to be meaningful?
Thanks for the laugh.
Clearly, you don't need anyone's help to pull that trick off, little missy.
That stunt sealed him the gop nomination.
Oh NO! One of CNBC's head cheerleaders has burned his bra and dropped his pom poms. Oh NO!
Relax.
I've seen The Amazing Kudlow do this trick before. Had MMFA run the whole clip, you would have seen at the end of the show a white tiger leap out of a box with the original, unburnt bill in his mouth.
It's actually quite magnificent.
I knew i saw him somewhere before. Wasn't his partner bitten by the tiger in Vegas?
Kudlow should be jailed for defacing US currency.
well, anyways... so much for his political aspirations...
Roll The Tape...
and I sure hope that wasn't one of the Rick Nelson Dollar Bills found on eBay... they go for about twelve dollars... now that's inflation!
The arrest should be while he is on the aire just like the crime was. And CNBC should not be aloud to cut away.
MMfA is jus tupset because that's one more buck of "other people's money" that the dem's can't take and use now..
Wrong they are pset because he broke the law. the right feels they are above the law. This is just another example of that thought.
BS. paying your taxes is required by law too, I dont' hear any of you or MMfA squawking about 4 cabinet appointments who are tax evaders and one of them now in charge of the IRS. Self righteous cretins....
I hate to keep confusin' ya with the facts, little missy, but once shrub blew the surplus, doubled the national debt and ran the country into the toilet and left us with the worst financial meltdown since the gops gave us the Great Depression, that was pretty much a given.
The trashin' the economy and burnin' everyone else's money ship sailed a long time ago.
So why don't you go out and demand the arrest of every illegal immigrant in ever sanctuary city? That's a crime too, but of course you and all libs are highly selective in what you want to consider a crime. it's a crime if it suits your agenda- otehriwse it's meaningless.
So, what you're sayin', little missy, is that ya don't have a case or a clue and ya can't answer the question, so you're gonna make a clumsy attempt to change the subject in the futile hope that nobody will notice ya don't know what the hell you're talkin' about on this or any other subject that's likely to come up.
Gee, thanks for clearin' that up.
I noticed. I always do. I always will.
Neoconderthals discover fire.
Fire good. Make eat sushi good. Make female want copulate with man with no hair.
It is a violation of US law, clearly sourced in the article., not an MMFA invention. Did you read the article in itys entirety ? If Kudlow was dumb enough to do this on camera, he deserves to be served a fine. Not like kids sneaking pennies on railroad tracks.
Kudlow obviously hates America... I think he should be prosecuted for that...or for just being so damn annoying. ;>)
Something as small as a dime can derail a train and possibly kill many people. Pennies are bigger than dimes so what can they posibly do to a train. So do not say or imply that pennies on a railroad track are harmless.
Is that really true?
Since it was brought up, why isn't destroying pennies a crime? You can get those souvenir stretched pennies at any number of tourist-oriented locales. When I briefly worked for Cutco, we used scissors to cut up pennies for demonstrations. I don't remember the Feds busting down the doors and putting people in cuffs for that. If dollars are government property, then pennies surely are as well.
Actually it is but it is coins for some reason are not as prosicuted as bills are.
As far as the coins on the railroad track that is what my father a former railroad fireman and my grandfather a retired railroad engener before he passed told me.
Oh, but shouldn't people complain about people who manufacture and purchase penny-stretching machines, so that the consequences can be shown? You can't tell me that at Disneyland one of those machines doesn't get a hundred turns each day. That's as much destruction as Kudlow did. Is there something magical about the paper, as opposed to ordinary metals that make up coins?
I have to believe your father and grandfather told you that to discourage you from doing it yourself. People have been killed by trains while doing it. Coins can also be projectiles when a wheel runs over them, which could be deadly as well. I haven't seen any evidence that it's ever happened, and the physics of it seem ludicrous. The weight of a wheel, much less an entire boxcar, will surely bend a penny or dime quite easily.
These machines have the permission of the Government and have to be checked out by the government before they are legal.
Well, of course they do. Why is that?
Let me specify my meaning:why would they get the permission of Government when they destroy currency?
destroying money requires a complanaint and most people will not complain about pennies.
Growing up in India, my recollection is that over there, destroying coins (pennies, dimes etc) is a crime too.
I was once throwing a rupee coin into a river, while the train I was traveling in was going going over a bridge, and someone said (in a forceful way too) it is a crime to destroy national property.
Just my 4/2 cents.
If it's a crime here, I don't see how machines that deface pennies would be allowed. That's not even "it's illegal but someone has to complain before we take action", that's "we know these machines are out there and we don't give a damn."
If that is the case, it suggests to me that this law is generally not enforced for smaller amounts of money. Maybe doing it on television makes a difference, but otherwise it seems like legal procedure doesn't pass the cost/benefit analysis. Nobody's rights are violated, and if it's government property then they're the ones spending however much money seeking justice. If I had to pay twenty bucks to get a nickel that was wrongfully taken from me, I'll let it go, and so it strikes me as bizarre that a government is going to spend any amount of money because you threw a rupee into a river. National property or not, it comes off as sort of nutty.
We surely lose millions of dollars a year accidentally. I have to imagine that intentional destruction is only a small fraction of that amount. That's a marginal amount of waste, just as you would expect to see in any system.
i did my best to lighten it up (no pun intended, but it works nicely anyway)
Only people with money to burn actually burn money... ;>)
That was to Brabantio ...
I read the statute, and I was familiar with the law already. Kudlow should have known about it too, and I can't believe there wasn't some producer there telling him to stop. I just don't see how "property" covers the rationale for putting forth time, effort and money for the sake of a dollar bill.
I think the larger point here is that CNBC continues to report business news from under a circus tent.
There's no argument there. I agree with Pete that sort of thing should be mentioned in the "County Fair" section.
I tend to agree, but I think it's here because the network has reported on the very law that Kudlow has broken, and Kudlow does predict that "we are going to see a lot of people lighting flame to the U.S. dollar".
That may be, but I am sure the intent is so that people are discouraged from doing what Kudlow did so as to remove money from circulation.
That much makes sense to me, I just have a hard time believing this stands to be a rampant problem. Another thing that strikes me is that the law relies on intent. I don't think anyone's ever been prosecuted for ruining a wad of Washingtons in the washing machine. Shouldn't people be discouraged from removing money from circulation either way?
Kind of seems like an odd thing for a guy to do who is a leading voice on a network dedicated to managing money
Absolutely, and it's pretty stupid no matter who is doing it. Is it really likely that he's going to start some major trend of burning money, though?
Gawd amitey...this is a hall of fame effort to trivialize the news.
After reading the headline...I expected to see some relevant economic news. Instead we get mmfa suggesting that Kudlow spend six months in jail.
This juvenile effort only merits a loud "har dee har har"...and a gold medal for senseless reporting.
When a person breaks the law on TV he needs to be punished to prove that the law is the law and there are consiquences for breaking it.
Another good call.
It's always nice to see people with respect for the law...and not selective enforcement. Remember that tonite...while watching the news on "TV"...when you see a carload of illegal aliens detained because they broke our immigration laws.
Welcome aboard.
I feel that illeagal imagrants should be deported they can not be imprissioned in the US unless they break a law that carries imprisonment since illeagal entry does not carry it. The way to reduce this problem is that if you hire one it is 10 years in prison.
Should have been to wesley not to myself.
Whatever. This belongs in the County Fair file.
No this belongs on the police blotter.
Gosh, dude, what took you so long!? Never mind evryboby, Eric Jaffa does not care.
That smarmy reply of mine was unnecessary. My apologies.
Larry Kudlow thinks the louder he talks the smarter he is, why doesn't he work for Fox Business?
He should do the world a favor and set himself on fire.
What the heck is wrong with the liberals here? Pick your battles.
This is embarrassing. Raise your hand if you've ever driven 10 miles over the speed limit, downloaded an mp3, or ripped a tag off a mattress.
Who the hell would rip a tag off a mattress?
That's just crazy.
It's illegal for someone selling a mattress to rip the tag off. That's what the law is about. If you buy a mattress you can rip the tag off if you feel the need.
Nobody could prove it was a real dollar anyway. The video would not be able to persuade a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that that was actually a real dollar bill. The video does not zoom in enough to make that assertion and unless you have someone on the show willing to testify as to Mr. Kudlow's burning an "actual" dollar bill, good luck.
It occured to me that it might be a fake bill as well. However, someone could analyze the video to get a closer view. Also, someone could have simply photocopied a bill instead of using a real one, so zooming in may not indicate anything either way. It could also be possible that a dollar burns differently than a normal piece of paper due to the ink and/or paper, which would be demonstrable in court. It doesn't necessarily depend on anyone's testimony.
It also seems to me that if they used a fake bill, they would have done that for the very reason that burning a real one is illegal. If that was the case, it would make sense to provide a disclaimer that the burned bill was not real, so that it was clear they were not breaking the law.
Man, you people really should learn that's ti's not a good idea to pee into the wind...and in this case, it's MMFA hot air creating the cyclone...
How does this relate to my post?
Faking a crime is a crime so either way it is a crime.
Thanks Perry Mason for that lawyerly analysis.
That could have bought me dinner.
I wonder if that was how Kudlow would light up his freebase back in his cocaine fueled days....
The other reason why Kudlow doesnt get it...his suits cost more then my monthly <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Times; panose-1:2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:536902279 -2147483648 8 0 511 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:20.0pt; font-family:Times; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; font-weight:bold;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->
Mortgage payments
This is a strange article. Don't see why MMFA would take an interest in the event.
From the, Lets Pull it Out Another Notch Dept. EPA, any toxic byproducts produced by a burning dollar bill? Local Fire Dept, was the space certified for hot work?
With a yes and a no, fine them puppies. Update all affected personnel's medical files with a notation of exposure to hazardous materials. To be used in future lawsuits.
If a no and a yes....nevermind.
TOO FUNNY - eweston!
A crumpled bill is still acceptable to merchants. That is neither destroyed nor defaced.
As long as the serial number is readable and is accepted by a merchant the law has not been broken.
You're absolutely right and I've made that same case above in several posts. However, saying that to the kool-ad krowd here is like talking to the wall... actually talking to the wall is better.. you dont' get crap back from the wall.
Given that it's Kudlow, he would have made a bigger impact (with very little harm to his pocketbook) if he'd burned a Franklin instead of that pinche Washington.
Kudlow was part of the reagan administration who first ran up this debt and these deficits in the first place while pushin' this psychotic supply-side slop these clueless con kool-aid these nitwits keep wreckin' the economy with.
There's a couple trillion reasons to toss his sorry butt in jail as it is. Burning a dollar bill on TV is the least of his transgressions.