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On Marketplace, Wilkinson ignored economists who say New Deal aided recovery

April 08, 2009 9:59 am ET

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SUMMARY: Discussing the debate over whether the New Deal, "as many economic historians" say, deepened the Depression or "save[d] capitalism," Will Wilkinson did not note that many prominent economists believe, in Paul Krugman's words, that the "New Deal brought real relief to most Americans."

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During the April 8 broadcast of American Public Media's Marketplace Morning Report, bi-weekly Marketplace commentator Will Wilkinson, a research fellow at the Cato Institute, stated that "maybe American opinion-makers should spend less time fighting over FDR's enduring legacy and more time learning from the rest of the world." However, addressing the debate over the New Deal, Wilkinson stated earlier in his commentary: "Did it deepen the Depression, as many economic historians now say? Or did it save capitalism from itself, like I learned in 6th grade social studies?" In setting up a purported contrast between "many economic historians" and the lessons of "6th grade social studies," Wilkinson did not note that many prominent economists believe, in the words of Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, that the "New Deal brought real relief to most Americans," as Media Matters for America has noted.

In his November 10, 2008, New York Times column, Krugman wrote that President Franklin D. Roosevelt's policies included "long-run achievements" that "remain the bedrock of our nation's economic stability" and that Roosevelt's short-term successes were constrained because "his economic policies were too cautious."

Krugman further wrote:

Now, there's a whole intellectual industry, mainly operating out of right-wing think tanks, devoted to propagating the idea that F.D.R. actually made the Depression worse. So it's important to know that most of what you hear along those lines is based on deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. The New Deal brought real relief to most Americans.

[...]

F.D.R. wasn't just reluctant to pursue an all-out fiscal expansion -- he was eager to return to conservative budget principles. That eagerness almost destroyed his legacy. After winning a smashing election victory in 1936, the Roosevelt administration cut spending and raised taxes, precipitating an economic relapse that drove the unemployment rate back into double digits and led to a major defeat in the 1938 midterm elections.

Similarly, in a January 6 column, economist Dean Baker wrote: "In reality, any careful reading showed that the New Deal policies substantially ameliorated the effects of the Great Depression for tens of millions of people. The major economic failing of the New Deal was that President Roosevelt was not prepared to push the policies as far as necessary to fully lift the economy out of the Great Depression." Baker continued:

Roosevelt was too worried about the whining of the anti-stimulus crowd that he confronted. He remained concerned about balancing the budget when the proper goal of fiscal policy should have been large deficits to stimulate the economy. Roosevelt's policies substantially reduced the unemployment rate from the 25 percent peak when he first took office, but they did not get the unemployment rate back into single digits.

Further, in a November 17, 2008, post on his personal blog, University of California-Berkeley economics professor Brad DeLong wrote, "Private investment recovered in a very healthy fashion as Roosevelt's New Deal policies took effect. The interruption of the Roosevelt Recovery in 1937-1938 is, I think, wel [sic] understood: Roosevelt's decision to adopt more 'orthodox' economic policies and try to move the budget toward balance and the Federal Reserve's decision to contract the money supply by raising bank reserve requirements provide ample explanation of that downturn."

Progressive economists are not alone in crediting Roosevelt's policies for easing the economic crisis. As Newsweek senior editor Daniel Gross noted on his blog on January 4, 2007, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke -- appointed by President Bush -- wrote in his Essays on the Great Depression, "Only with the New Deal's rehabilitation of the financial system in 1933-35 did the economy begin its slow emergence from the Great Depression."

From the April 8 broadcast of American Public Media's Marketplace Morning Report:

STEVE CHIOTAKIS (host): We've heard it time and time again: This recession is unlike any other. Yet the temptation to compare it to past downturns, especially that one in the '30s, has proved difficult for pundits and policymakers to resist. Commentator Will Wilkinson thinks if we want to look for precedents, it's time to look beyond our borders.

WILKINSON: Our current economic downturn has brought to life old debates about the Great Depression: What got us into it and what got us out of it? The role of the New Deal looms large. Did it deepen the Depression, as many economic historians now say? Or did it save capitalism from itself, like I learned in 6th grade social studies?

Let me tell you, people get really heated about this question. But hold on: Is this debate really relevant to our current crisis?

The U.S. of 80 years ago is a strange and faraway land. When the Great Depression hit, there was no Social Security, there was no unemployment insurance, and Jim Crow was in full effect. There was no such thing as a mortgage-backed security, a collateralized debt obligation, or a credit default swap. U.S. currency was backed by gold.

Financial systems all over the world have undergone a series of deep changes since the 1930s. Trying to draw current policy lessons from the Great Depression is sort of like coming up with a new strategy for the war in Afghanistan by studying the Normandy invasion.

Our pundits' obsession with the Depression and the New Deal represents an all-too typical American exceptionalism, as if only our history really matters. But an apt comparison requires similar institutions, not the same flag.

If we're going to fight over history, let's fight over the recent history of the 1990s Japanese and Swedish banking crises. Let's talk about the financial collapse of Argentina, from which it has only recently emerged. All those economies were more like America's is now than America's was way back when my grandpa was playing football in a sweater and a leather helmet.

So what lessons should we draw from the rather more germane recent experiences of countries with similar economies? Truth is, I don't know. Maybe I should work harder to find out. And maybe American opinion-makers should spend less time fighting over FDR's enduring legacy and more time learning from the rest of the world.

CHIOTAKIS: Will Wilkinson is a fellow at the Cato Institute.

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    • Author by thejbomb65 (April 08, 2009 10:10 am ET)
         

      yes lets listen to the radio commenator over a nobel prize winning economist and take his word for it. this is sad...truly sad.

      here are the credentials of mr wilkinson....."B.A. in the Humanities (Philosophy and History of Art) and in Studio Art (Painting) and again in 1998 from Northern Illinois University with an M.A. in Philosophy. For about six years, on and off, I was a Ph.D. student in Philosophy at the University of Maryland, where my emphasis was philosophy of mind and language and then, later, political philosophy." this is from his own website.

      so i guess since he was an art history guy, and later a philosophy guy.....that gives him free reign to say a nobel prize winning economist is full of it...right and im the pope

      Report Abuse
    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (April 08, 2009 11:03 am ET)
         

      New Deal brought real relief to most Americans.

      This does not mean "it improved the economy or the chances of the economy to improve."

      Report Abuse
      • Author by historygeek001 (April 08, 2009 11:09 am ET)
           

        Sure it doesn't. 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by thejbomb65 (April 08, 2009 11:34 am ET)
             

          back me up on this one please

          Report Abuse
          • Author by worrierking (April 08, 2009 2:41 pm ET)
               

            The only back up I can provide is the anecdotal stories told by my grand parents, parents, aunts and uncles. All went to their graves believing that it was FDR and his policies that enabled them to survive the depression and to eventually join the middle class and provide for their families.

            With each year that passes it becomes easier for the right to vilify FDR. Fewer people are around who lived through those times. It's up to those of us who heard their stories to refute the lies from the right. 

            Report Abuse
      • Author by thejbomb65 (April 08, 2009 11:34 am ET)
           

        then why did the unemployment rate drop every single year except 1937. and economic output also improved steadily each year until 1940 (again exception being 1937), when things really took off....

        the answer being is that congressional republicans had talked roosevelt into trying to halt spending and reign in the deficit.....and look what happened then.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by dexteritas0071418 (April 08, 2009 12:06 pm ET)
             

          1. The government hired.

          2. Some people stopped looking for work.

          3. 1940 = WWII

          4. "improved steadily"? "Sucked less". How do you know that we would've done (better,worse,same) without such a massive increase in gov spending and welfare programs?

          I don't know what would've happened if we had taken a different path...but anyone who understands reason and logic knows that "brought relief to Americans" does not mean the same thing as "improved the economy longterm."If the government hands you money because you don't have any, that doesn't in and of itself improve the economy. If you disagree, why not just print money and give as much out as anyone can spend?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by thejbomb65 (April 08, 2009 12:30 pm ET)
               

            ok but....after the arsenal of democracy speech, within i think 8 months, we were shipping supplies and raw materials to the Allies before we entered the war. a tremendous turaround within 8 months. i don't think that couldn't have happened without there beign long term economic improvement.

            a concret example....in april 1941, Ford began building the Williow Run plant. this was an all in one factory that would churn out B-24 Liberators of about one every 45 mins at its peak.

            production began in 1943 and it was the only place that materials came in one end of the factory and out the other came out the finished plane ready to fly right then and there.

            without long term economic improvement i don't think henry ford would have been able to put in the amount of money to build the place. or to hire the workforce needed for it.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by dexteritas0071418 (April 08, 2009 12:34 pm ET)
                 

              I disagree, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I know you're not either. But, "improvement" was from a really bad place, and the improvement wasn't anything to be proud about in terms of sheer numbers, so really, what was done was done under tougher circumstances than, say, would've existed in 1927.

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          • Author by Conchobhar (April 08, 2009 12:31 pm ET)
               

            "I don't know what would've happened if we had taken a different path.."

            The backsliding in '37-'38, due to Roosevelt's move toward conservative theory,  gives a pretty good indication.

            but anyone who understands reason and logic knows that "brought relief to Americans" does not mean the same thing as "improved the economy longterm."

            Given the fact that much of the rest of the world was reacting with a lurch toward totalitarianism and that there was a pervasive feeling that democracy had failed, "brought relief to most Americans" can, reasonably and logically, be taken to infer that the New Deal did "improve the economy longterm" by preserving both our governmental and economic systems.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by dexteritas0071418 (April 08, 2009 12:37 pm ET)
                 

              Well, if you believe the New Deal is the only thing that kept us from becoming Nazi America, then yes, I see your point.

              But what "conservative policies" did Roosevelt embrace? In 1937 he began railing against "monopolistic powers" that "caused" the first depression (I'm no fan of monopolies, but see any parallel to today's CEO issues?), and in 1938 he started a new round of $5 billion dollar expenditures.

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              • Author by thejbomb65 (April 08, 2009 12:59 pm ET)
                   

                he cut off spending. republicans talked him into trying to balance the budget.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by jjamele2880 (April 08, 2009 1:26 pm ET)
                   

                The New Deal WAS the only thing that prevented us from becoming Nazi America.  There was a very strong pro-Fascist movement in the US, supported largely by multi-millionaires who saw an opportunity to wipe out unions and this messy thing we call "Democracy," once and for all.  Roosevelt's New Deal restored America's faith in both Democracy and Capitalism- but not unregulated Capitalism, thank God. 

                It's just par for the course that there are so many morons out there today with such a pathetically poor grasp of history that they blame Roosevelt for "prolonging" the Depression with spending, or claim that the New Deal programs had NOTHING to do with the economic recovery.  The fact is that the Unemployment Rate dropped 40% in seven years under Roosevelt, Democracy was saved, and Capitalism was made more fair and less predatory.  PERIOD.

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                • Author by thejbomb65 (April 08, 2009 1:34 pm ET)
                     

                  and unfortunatly the biggest supporter and the one i believe you are implying was none other than Henry Ford I himself.

                  there were two things that stopped Ford from not participating in war production.

                  1. threat of take over by the US gov. Ford was already unhappy with his pants being taken over in Germany by the Nazis and didn't want to lsoe everything

                  2. Edsel Ford, his only son. Edsel threatened to back a US gov takeover unless he got control of operations, which he was given until he died. in no small part thanks to the stress his dad put him under.

                  Report Abuse
              • Author by jjamele2880 (April 08, 2009 1:28 pm ET)
                   

                Part of the National Industrial Recovery Act guidelines was the encouragement of monopolies through the suspension of anti-Monopoly laws passed during the T.Roosevelt, Taft and Wilson Administrations.  Seems pretty "conservative" to me.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by Conchobhar (April 08, 2009 1:29 pm ET)
                   

                I see a number of parallels, including the fact that 1929 was the last time that wealth was as concentrated at the tip of the economic pyramid as it is now.  As far as "conservative policies," he backed away from deficit spending to stimulate the economy, and it started to tank again.  As you point out, when he started the new round of expenditures in '38, recovery resumed. 

                Depending on your point of view, an 80% drop in unemployment means that the economy  either improved or it "sucked less."

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                • Author by Conchobhar (April 08, 2009 1:34 pm ET)
                     

                  Whoops!  "80%" should be 40%.  If I remember correctly, unemployment was 25% when FDR came into office, it dropped to 15% and then rose again when he tried to balance the budget, fell again when he increased deficit spending, and really fell when war production took off.

                  Report Abuse
        • Author by dexteritas0071418 (April 08, 2009 12:32 pm ET)
             

          btw, I can print money as the government, distribute it, and GDP will rise, everything else staying the same. GDP is calculated with government spending as a "+". Some European countries have 70% of their GDP as gov spending.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (April 09, 2009 12:22 pm ET)
           

        Wha...?  That's EXACTLY what it says!  How would the economy have been better off if MORE people were out of work, homeless, broke, etc...?  It's absolutely ridiculous to think that!  What IS the economny anyway, beyond the amount of money people have to buy the goods and sevices it produces?  (Supply is worthless without demand!)  Your lot is so desperate to avoid admiting that your philosphy is utterly bankrupt that you make arugments that defy common sense!

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    • Author by ufleirx (April 08, 2009 1:32 pm ET)
         

      I am amazed we're here again.

      But I should not be suprised as the "not part of the meme" consevative moment continues to attempt to rewrtie the history of the US and their place in it. Trying to cut taxes with no other purpose than cutting taxes (read not targeting the cuts to drive business) and trying to balance the budget in time of economic uncertainity is suicide economically.

      FDR proved the last and the way Obama is going he'll look to experiment with both which will be a trainwreck -- if the past is prologue.

      Conservatives while running the corporate world -- by in large -- have no idea how it works. After 30+ years of free market philsophy they are suprised we are here? How so, and if they are why are they running companies to begin with. At some point someone in any get rich quick scheme or con -- depending on you view -- ends up holding the bag (that would be us -- everyone not a corporate leader). The only difference is that this one is so large it threatened the whole world's economy and therefore there was no safe place for the "grifters" to hide. Maybe outer space -- now there an idea. I need some rockets, launch codes, and certain persons contact information -- I'll sell them moon condos to stimulate the economy. If your reading this and you don't see the problem with it -- congratulations you are a Conservative and problem a business executive.

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      • Author by ufleirx (April 08, 2009 3:31 pm ET)
           

        Sorry I did not mean "problem" but "probably". Of course, if you liked my idea you are probably the type of business executive that causes problems.

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      • Author by NiceguyEddie (April 09, 2009 12:28 pm ET)
           

        The problem is that you can put a tangible, measurable cost to what you pay for labor and what you pay for taxes.  You have a clear, accurate, indisputrable record of those expenses.  BUT... it's difficult, if not impossible, to determine to what extent your business directly benefits from people spending more due to a min wage hike, or government spending or even welfare and food stamps.  (All things that look more like COSTS, if you never look beyond your own balance sheets.) These people (conservatives) keep saying they want to "keep more of their own money" with nary a though to where that money comes from.  It's wouldn never have been "yours" in teh first place if someone else didn't have it to spend at your business in the first place!  We need to get beyond self-centered, short-term thinking (AKA GREED) and realize that every expense for either taxes or labor costs are actually investments, that pay us back.

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    • Author by laughinglefty (April 08, 2009 10:47 pm ET)
         

      Interesting he mentions Argentina. So is he saying he wants Hugo Chavez to bail us out? Not that I'd oppose better relations with Venezuela, but if that's the example he wants to give, it's the only conclusion I can draw from that.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by donaldmaddog5642 (April 09, 2009 11:18 am ET)
         

      I don't think any of us have been living in a cave somewhere in the Catskills, so we must be aware of the fire-storm of attacks on the current administration, and particularly, the President, himself.  A barrage of fear mongering statements and lies about where this country is headed has heated up and shows no signs of slowing down.  The extreme right has mounted a virtual wall of misleading and false assumptions, stated as "facts", aided by their own "news" channel, Fox. They began some time ago to discredit the New Deal by claiming that FDR, that evil personification of all that is wrong with "us", made the situation worse, not better.  One example of his "subversive" agenda was the Social Security Act.  By drawing a comparison to FDR, the right is accusing Obama of repeating the "failed and socialist" ideology of an earlier time.  As a child of the Great Depression, I am immune to such nonsense, but I fear for the rest of my fellow citizens' conception of historical accuracy.  The German propaganda machine was correct; repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.  The former Soviet device was also effective: re-write history to conform to your goals.  The extremists are now using both methods.  

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      • Author by Conchobhar (April 10, 2009 6:11 pm ET)
           

        "The extremists are now using both methods."  

        Yes, they are.  That's why they hate Media Matters so much.

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