Hour 3: Limbaugh on Obama's reasoning for releasing torture memos: "[W]e've got to spank ourselves"
This
hour of the Limbaugh Wire brought to you by the hypocrisy of shooting pirates
By Simon
Maloy
The final hour of today's Rush Limbaugh Show started just as the first two did -- with an extended plug for The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, complete with the joke that the "dittohead" clothing you'll receive as a gift for donating is black to "commemorate" the Obama economy. As a commenter to the first hour pointed out, perhaps Rush is unaware of what the phrase "in the black" means...
Anyway, coming back from the break, Rush took a call from a woman in Montana who wanted to tell him how much she loved her Prius, and that Rush's claims that they're too small and dangerous are bunk. Rush denied ever saying that Priuses are too small, and explained that he's all for people buying any car they want, he just hates it when people get swept up in a movement and buy a car because they think they're saving the world. Rush said she might call Rush back and change her mind when she finds out how much it costs to replace the battery. Then Rush admonished himself for saying that and slapped himself again, administering some more "torture."
Another break and Rush offered a full-throated endorsement of George Will's latest Washington Post column, in which he decried the pervasiveness of denim in America. Rush proudly declared that he never wears jeans or white T-shirts (although colored T-shirts aren't as bad, Rush thought), and he didn't even wear them in the '60s because he didn't want to be identified with "those in his generation who were bombing buildings." You could always tell a Weatherman by the jeans...
Then Rush professed to be offended by this Wall Street Journal headline: "Ditch the Jet: It's Cool to Fly Commercial." This, Rush said, relates to the stories we've all been hearing about the White House intimidating people who fly private jets. Rush doesn't think private jets are "uncool," though. In fact, he said that when he next has to fly to Washington, D.C., he would be proud to be photographed stepping off "his pride and joy." We assume he meant his private jet.
Rush then took a call from a man professing to be confused as to why we're not allowed to "muss" the hair of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed even though he killed Americans, and yet we're allowed to shoot three Somali pirates on the high seas. Rush says this is a grand hypocrisy -- shooting the pirates was OK because Obama is in charge, but waterboarding Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was bad because it happened under George W. Bush. Of course, to reduce all this to a matter of partisanship requires one to completely disregard the massive situational distinctions between a hostage situation and an interrogation of someone in custody. And that's exactly what Rush did, sneering at the "serious liberals" who would say that the pirates had a gun to Captain Phillips' back while Mohammed was a captive and wasn't threatening anyone. He declined to explain why that difference doesn't matter.
After that, Rush aired audio of Michael Hayden saying to NBC's Andrea Mitchell that the release of the torture memos has harmed American national security because it effectively takes these interrogation techniques off the table. Rush's response? "Obama has his reasons and I do think they're couched in the notion that this country's guilty. This country is guilty as it exists and as it was founded, and our guilt was confirmed in the way we conducted the war on terror so we've got to spank ourselves. And he thinks this will show the rest of the world what a decent guy he is, what a decent country we are."
Leading into the final break, Rush attacked the AP for reporting: "Republican politicians, backed by conservative American media personalities and bloggers, are using a new tool to attack President Barack Obama's administration -- a Homeland Security report warning that military veterans could fall victim to extremist recruiters or lone acts of violence." Rush was mystified that after the administration released a report attacking conservatives as extremists (the report didn't do that), the AP would claim that it was conservatives and Republicans who were "attacking" Obama. This was more evidence, according to Rush, that the media is "an embarrassing joke."
Rush rounded out the show by thanking his listeners for their generosity in donating to The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society.
That wraps up the week for us here at the Wire. We hope you'll join us next week for another exciting 15 installments. Until then, do yourself and the rest of us a favor by taking a good, long look at Media Matters' highly informative and slightly entertaining coverage of Rush Limbaugh.
Highlights from Hour 3
Outrageous comments
LIMBAUGH: Obama has his reasons and I do think they're couched in the notion that this country's guilty. This country is guilty as it exists and as it was founded, and our guilt was confirmed in the way we conducted the war on terror so we've got to spank ourselves. And he thinks this will show the rest of the world what a decent guy he is, what a decent country we are.
Clips from this hour
What's up with all this spanking and slapping today?
Maybe the springtime has got Ol' Fathead fired up, looking for little action!
Memo #1. Murderer knows of more plots to murder. The president decides to slap
him and make him stand in place and deprives him of sleep in an effort to save more American deaths. Sounds like an excellent idea to me. Furthermore I woudln't mind if I was torutured if I was planning a mass murder. Torture for confession to guilt and strong tactics for convincing a known murder and planner of murders are two differnt things.
I strongly support all of the tactics used to extract ticking bomb information if, there is no generally agreed upon permanent injurty to either the body or mind.
We've seen a remarkable metamorphosis from conservatives lately. Revealing classified information to the public is now OK. Government spying on the domestic population is wrong. (Therefore, a "Gorelick wall" should stand between spy agencies and domestic espionage.)
I don't know if you are a conservative but I'd like to take this all one step further. Suppose wingers have a gun rights message board and some of the posters on that board know each other. Then suppose one of the poster posts a threat. He says he's set a bomb somewhere in New York and its timed to go off in one week. It's assumed that some of the other posters might know who posted the threat.
Would it be OK for DHS to round up the gun rights group and torture them for information?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, can propose some bizzare scenario such as the one you posted above, to create some polluted illusion of reality. what if..... and suppose they....... is the craft of someone without a point, a comic book reality.
Of course, you'll never connect this to the Republican primary torture debate, which consisted of serious, substantive points like "what if 24 was real?"
Anyone who, like the rest of the right wing hypocrites, agrees to give the government the power to do whatever it pleases so long as it's someone else who is harmed, but screams bloody murder if under the same principles the harm was applied to right wingers, cannot answer the question I posed. That's no illusion. That's reality.
another bizarre scenario.
My wife does not like me. I have kids. She says she put a bomb in the house that will go off in 10 minutes.
Should I torture my wife?
Being married to you is torture enough. In 11 minutes, she'll be happy. Can't you give her that much?
sorry my4cents, I thought I was responding to creeksneakers2. My bad!
And you being an expert on what can permanently scar the body and the mind.
We don't deserve to enjoy that which others gave their lives to protect if we would be willing to go against everything they fought and died for.
worrierking, you have absolutely no idea what our brave men and women in uniform go through each and every day to protect our liberties we enjoy. I thank god every day for the sacrifices they make to ensure the likes of Obama can go around the world apologizing for the sacrifices of our soldiers. Their pride in what they do and accomplish can now be swept under the rug by Obama as he grandly dismisses their fight for the freedom of all Americans, and those around the world seeking freedom, in an attempt to integrate himself with the likes of Hugo Chavez and the Castro twins. Viva Obama! Viva Guevera!
What a pair you have.
I've got a very good idea and vivid memories of what it's like. And you scumbags who condone torture dishonor my service and the service of every American who's ever worn the uniform.
Right, dawg. Bring up Daniel Pearl so you can go ahead with backing off that high and mighty stuff about the military. That's something I love (can't stand) about Republicans. They seem to believe that nobody on the left could've possibly served. When you're confronted with the reality that plenty on the left have served?
"DURR! CHE OBAMA!! COMMIE PINKO!!! DANIEL PEARL!!! 9/11!!!!"
Also, if Daniel Pearl's wife happens to say something like "I don't think people should be tortured" does that also make her a commie pinko too? Probably, if the right's reaction to the families of 9/11 victims who didn't agree with them is taken as an indication. It's alright, if it's all right, right? Now I'm starting to see the logic that allows Oliver North, Gordon Liddy and Henry Kissinger to be welcomed with open arms and John Kerry and Max Cleeland to be considered national disgraces.
Wouldn't it be nice if our bedwetting friend who names himself after a mass murderer would have thought his argument through before making it?
I know that Mrs. Pearle was angry and devastated by the brutal murder of her husband and outraged by the murderers showing it on the internet.
But he assumes that since her husband was murdered that Mrs. Mariane Pearle would denounce her Bhuddist beliefs and support torture. I wouldn't want to speak for Mrs. Pearle. But I do know that people embrace their beliefs when going through difficult times.
But then he assumes to know that all veterans would give up their beliefs and support torture as well.
This shows me that he knows and understands religious beliefs as well as he understands what veterans believe.
I wore the uniform and what was done to these terroriest was not toture. So speak for yourself and not everyone who wore a uniform. I had jobs that put me thru more than tthese known terroriest endured. Working 16 hours a day on a swingshift in a steelmill is torture. When I was young I chased little Mary c. with a worm. I never knew this was torture. Extremest are laughing at how weak metally and physically the American people are becoming.
Sniper,
I assume you're a Charles Whitman wannabe.
I'm a Vietnam veteran.
How much do you personally know about laying it all on the line for your country?
I've got quite a few vet friends who are fed up ( to put it mildly) with people who only talk the talk and have no Idea what sacrifice means. They would be glad, as would I, to enlighten you in person.
The conservatives, and especially Fox News, are awakening a sleeping giant.
LOL. You mean "ingratiate", at least I think you do. Funny where your head is at, though.
I meant integrate, patobutter. Obama would like to see himself somewhere between the dictators I mentioned. Unlimited power and exacting arrogance. He'll fit nicely!
You must have said INTEGRATE because Obama is black.
When you stoop to the level of your enemy you're no better than he is. That's one of the things that made America a great country. We had a reputation of fair and humane treatment, never stooping to the level of our enemies.
General Washington issued an order to his troops regarding prisoners of war:
‘Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example of the British Army in their treatment of our unfortunate brethren who have fallen into their hands,’ he wrote.
George Washington, faced with possibly losing the war, never stooped to the level of his enemies. There is no worst case scenario that should cause this country to abandon it's principals.
As my Momma used to say, "your word is your bond". You don't go back on what you promised and this country promised no torture, period! Anyway, people will say anything to stop the pain, so what makes anyone think that torturing gets you reliable information?
And what about Americans soldiers and what they could face if, god forbid, they were captured?
And, by the way, theclocktowersniper8151, King served his country. He wasn't a no show like Cheney and Bush, he put on the uniform and put his life on the line. So while you may disagree with him, when you're waxing poetically about our brave men and women in uniform, King was one of them! YOU OWE him RESPECT!!
Thanks so much Pearlene.
You've explained it far better than I could have. Your momma sounds exactly like mine. I'm willing to bet that the people responsible for the end run around the Geneva Conventions also had mothers who taught the same principles.
It saddens me to know that so many don't understand what core principles are. If we no longer follow those principles that made us proud to be Americans, we don't deserve to continue as a nation.
Very true!!!! The behavior of the Previous Administration is truly unGodly. Amazing that they can even sleep at night. And if any of their children or grandchildren ever are captured, they will spend long hours thinking of those obnoxious memos they wrote condoning that illegal that okeyed the treatment of our future POWs caught up by our enemies. In the end, they will have to face God knowing that they manipulated the very treatment handed out to their children and grandchildren. God help our country to get back on the path to righteousness and doing what is fair and honest again. Thank you Mr. Obama for your reasoned and moral ideals that will get our country back on track!!!!!
"Furthermore I woudln't mind if I was torutured if I was planning a mass murder."
Ah, but what if you're NOT planning a mass murder? What if you were turned in by a feuding neighbor, who saw a chance to get even, and pick up a bounty in the process?
"Torture for confession to guilt and strong tactics for convincing a known murder and planner of murders are two differnt things."
Not really. If you're innocent, but the guys holding you believe you're guilty - in both cases, they're using torture to force a confession, to what you know you haven't, or aren't planning. In most cases, under torture, people will confess to the crime or plot - in both cases they're making it up, to stop the torture!
Which is why torture does NOT work, and anything extracted by it is worthless!
Simon,
I think you deserve a big fat bonus like those execs got from the TARP money because you have to listen to this bag of hot air just so you can keep the rest of us informed.
Memo to egb - We signed the International Anti-torture Agreement in 1984, we signed the Geneva Convention, we have taken part in numerous international trials that inprisoned and exacuted people for torture. Yet some how the rightwing in this country thinks we can ignore all of this at our pleasure and still hold other accountable. It does not work that way. Further, do you not read it was what 27 out of 700+ at gitmo that turned out to have actual ties to terrorism, but we tortured them all. We tortured 100s of innocent people, that is not the America I was raised to fight for. I am ashamed and I think any true American with a conscience and a brain should be.
I love how you sorry group of so called reporters or journalists or whatever you call yourselves at media matters cover limbaugh. You fail to mention he donated 300,000 to cancer research, which is great news in these times. And the torture memos are a joke. I would challenge any american faced with the immense tragedy of 9/11/01 to protect america better. Hindsight is 20/20 in anyone's life, but to say the tactics used were torture are not correct. You have Al Queda beheading american civilians overseas on tape for everyone to see and only god knows what else, yet we claim waterboarding, sleep deprivation, backhanding, etc...,are torture,really, REALLY!!!! Wow, does anyone not realize releasing these documents made our enemies hate us more and strengthened them even more. God bless obama, I do not disagree with him as much now, I just feel sorry for his incompetence. Pray America, PRAY!!!
Sniper,
It seems you are a Charles Whitman wannabe...and what a great patriot he was.
I'm a Vietnam vet...I suggest stick with what you know...and it sure isn't personal sacrifice in defense of your country...how much time did you serve? and I don't mean behind bars or behind the counter at McDonalds. There is a growing contingent of veterans who are fed up with sunshine patriots claiming the high road when they have spent their whole lives worried about how much they can take from this country and not a moments thought to how much they might owe...just for the right to live here.
Sniper....In the words of Ari Fleischer...you need to watch what you say...
What is this fascination with Rush people?
He is just an ordinary guy.
Why the hate?
That's all I hear on this website. hate, hate, hate. Get over it all ready.
Move on will you?
"Murderer knows of more plots to murder. The president decides to slap him and make him stand in place and deprives him of sleep in an effort to save more American deaths. Sounds like an excellent idea to me. Furthermore I woudln't mind if I was torutured if I was planning a mass murder. Torture for confession to guilt and strong tactics for convincing a known murder and planner of murders are two differnt things."
Reality: Illiterate goat herder is sold to us by an opposing clan and kept in prison for six years. During this time he is beaten, drowned, smashed into walls, stood with his hands above his head for days, deprived of food, sleep and hygiene. Eventually he confesses to just about any fabrication he can just to find relief. After six years of this treatment, we decide he actually wasn't a terrorist and let him go.
What are the odds he becomes a terrorist NOW?
Remember all those times they would put the terrorist alert at red or orange and nothing happened? That was information given to us from terror "suspects" under torture. They lied to stop the torture, sending the government into panic.
I'm curious...to all posters- I am of the opinion that torture, while a dark side of the modern warfare(yes, against the taliban and other terrorists), is a choice that has been used often by many gov'ts. In the case of the Bush admn. it was used judiciously, not with wanton overuse and resulted in some useful info being gathered and that the current attempts to file war crimes charges against the former admn. are nothing more than the left still stinging from the embarrassment of having Pres. Clinton face impeachment.(btw- he did perjure himself and was let off the hook so he wouldn't have to step down).
Whew, that said, my question is this, how many of you who are calling for the Bush admn. to be indicted for war crimes are willing to recall the Clinton admn. to face genocide and murder charges in the Branch Davidian massacre?(keep in mind b/4 any posts-the Davidians were guilty of no crimes that would have necessitated the military style assault used by Clinton/Reno....
The only person who committed genocide and murder at Waco was David Koresh. Some Dividians were killed when ATF tried to serve a search warrant and were fired upon. The rest were all killed when Koresh pour gasoline around the compound and lit it.
Janet Reno wasn't in office when the original Waco raid took place. The AG at the time was a Bush holdover. Mostly, the raid was planned under the Bush administration. One of the crimes committed by the kooks at Waco was that they murdered four federal agents.
If Clinton had captured Davidians and then tortured them we all would have wanted to see him prosecuted.
Very true. David's own mother was very explicit as to how it would all end and she knew her son was so deranged that he was going to cause a huge "conflagration" to make his historic sacrifice. He could have surrendered and his own mother begged him to do so, but she knew him too well to expect him to be reasonable. She felt he would arrange a huge fire or explosion no matter what the government did. Sad to say, she was absolutely correct.
You're making an invalid comparrison between the actions of the ATF at Waco and the Justice Departments circumvention of US law and the Geneva Conventions.
Unfortunately for the Branch Davidians, when confronted by agents of the ATF, who were trying to execute a search warrant, they chose to open fire, killing several Federal agents. I feel very sorry for the outcome, but anytime, anyone fires on and kills a law enforcement agent, regardless of who did what, you're guilty of murder.
No one should be indicted for war crimes, but an investigation is warranted. If the investigation leads to criminal acts, then those responsible for the acts should be prosecuted.
You may be of the opinion that torture is justified. And torture has been a dark side of all warfare going back thousands of years. But torture is a violation of US and International Law. If we as a nation allow our troops and government agencies to torture, we invite our enemies to torture our troops when they're captured.
I've known a man who was held as a POW and tortured by the Japanese. He survived the Bataan Death March. He was proud of his service and proud that he fought on the side of a nation that rejected torture. From what I've read, most POWs are in agreement with him.
One thing I've noticed about those who believe that torture is necessary is that none of these people has themselves served in the military.
I served in the military and don't beleve what the Bush administration did was torture. Trying to compare the prison of war camps of world war two to the encampments of these terroeries is ludicrous. I worked in a steelmill for thirty years and endured more physical and mental discomfort then these terroriest. When I was young I chased little Mary P. with a catipellar I didn't know it was torture. The fundalmental extremiest are laughing in their hide outs. They know Americans are weak mentally and won't do whats necessary to defeat them.Torture what a joke.
I served in the military and do not believe what the Bush administration did constitues torture. Mildly unconfortable maybe. I come incontact with quite a few vets and to a man they feel the same as I do. This was not torture. When i was young I chased lille Mary P. around the playground with a praying mantis, now its deemed torture. I worked in a steelmill for 30 years and endured more physical and mental stress then these terroriest. Our enemy is laughing at us knowing that we our to weak and divided to defeat them. So speak for yourself and not the rest of us wore the uniform. I apologize in advance if this response is duplicated. I sent one hours earlier but have not seen it on this thread as of yet.
and you know this, how?
Wow thats pretty comforting that Rushes listeners were informed by him to check out media matters even though it was a sneering sarcastic remark to end his show. I like seeing the veiws of the right wingers . They are real easy to respond to and its fun to prove these nutjob racist wrong.
I was terribly disturbed when I read this morning that two suspects were waterboarded a total of 266 times between the two of them. Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the admitted planner of 9/11, was waterboarded a total of 183 times during the month of March 2003, and a second Al Qaeda member was waterboarded 83 times in August of 2002.
183 times in roughly a 30 day period... this comes to roughly 6 waterboardings a day, or once every four hours. How can anyone possibly hear this and not think that it was torture? If the act of waterboarding is not considered torture, certainly the frequency of its use in such a short amount of time should be.
You can read the article here.
I am also curious as to how much money, man hours, and resources were spent following false leads that led no where. Personally, if I was being tortured for information, a perverse part of me would find some pleasure in the knowledge that my captors were chasing down dangers that just simply don't exist. Hell, it could even lead them in a direction away from a real attack.