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Fox News falsely claims Dems voted to "protect," "defend" pedophiles

May 06, 2009 1:50 pm ET

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SUMMARY: Sean Hannity, Bill Hemmer, and The Fox Nation advanced the false claim that House Democrats voted to "protect" or "defend" pedophiles by voting against an amendment to the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

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Discussing the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which defines as a federal crime certain acts of violence or attempted violence "because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of any person," Fox News hosts Sean Hannity and Bill Hemmer, and The Fox Nation, have all recently advanced the false claim that House Democrats voted to "protect" or "defend" pedophiles by voting against an amendment to the bill by Rep. Steve King (R-IA) stating that "the term 'sexual orientation' shall not include pedophilia."* In fact, as Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI) noted during an April 23 House Judiciary Committee hearing, the term "sexual orientation" is already defined by federal statute as applying only to "consensual homosexuality or heterosexuality," thereby excluding pedophiles, who engage in nonconsensual sexual relationships with children. In providing her reasons for opposing King's amendment, Baldwin said that it "is unnecessary and, I would add, inflammatory in terms of insinuations."

During the May 5 edition of his Fox News program, Hannity teased a segment by claiming that "Democrats just voted to extend special legal protections to pedophiles" and later claimed that Democrats had included a "special category for pedophiles" in the hate crimes bill. Additionally, while interviewing King, Hannity asserted: "I want to be perfectly clear. So hate -- we have a hate crimes bill, and you're saying, all right, we should exempt pedophiles. Every Democrat says no." King replied that Hannity had it "absolutely right," and that "on the top of that, the amendment that I offered to exempt pedophiles from a special protected status was after Tammy Baldwin, one of the lead sponsors on the bill, had argued that the sexual orientation, special protective status in the bill, only covered heterosexuals and homosexuals, so that doesn't include a pedophile. But she opposed the amendment anyway, as did all the Democrats, as you just showed tonight." Later, when Hannity asked King, "Is it safe to say that Democrats were willing to protect pedophiles?" King replied: "Sean, it is a matter of congressional record. Absolutely true -- beyond any doubt whatsoever."

Similarly, during the May 6 edition of Fox News's America's Newsroom, Fox News ran on-screen text that read, "House Dems vote to protect pedophiles, but not veterans":

Hemmer teased the segment by saying Democrats had reportedly "voted to give special protection to pedophiles." Also, a May 6 headline on The Fox Nation -- Fox News' purportedly bias-free website -- read: "House Democrats Defend Pedophiles Over Veterans."

In her statement opposing King's amendment, Baldwin noted that given the definition of "sexual orientation" under federal law "it is absolutely clear that that could not include pedophilia":

BALDWIN: I move to strike the last word in opposition to this amendment, that, well -- the gentleman claims that we have not pinned down the definition for sexual orientation. And, indeed, in our earlier session, yet today, I drew his attention to the fact that there is a definition with regard to the Hate Crimes Statistics Act. During the break, I searched to just confirm that what I had articulated earlier today was indeed the definition and it is: "Sexual orientation is means consensual homosexuality or heterosexuality." That is the definition.

Now, as you've noted earlier, there's only one term defined in this legislation, and that's gender identity on page 14. And the reason for that is that that definition exists nowhere else in federal law. This is the first time it's occurring in federal law. But in every other case, gender disability, sexual orientation, race, national origin, color, and -- I'm missing one. The architecture of the hate crime statutes in the United States is those definitions do not lay within that architecture. They exist elsewhere in federal law, and we rely on them. So there is a clear, concise definition of sexual orientation.

Your amendment is unnecessary and, I would add, inflammatory in terms of insinuations, I would say. But given the definition of sexual orientation meaning "consensual homosexuality or heterosexuality," it is absolutely clear that that could not include pedophilia.

Indeed, as Baldwin noted, the 2005 Hate Crimes Statistics Act states:

Nothing in this section creates a cause of action or a right to bring an action, including an action based on discrimination due to sexual orientation. As used in this section, the term 'sexual orientation' means consensual homosexuality or heterosexuality. This subsection does not limit any existing cause of action or right to bring an action, including any action under the administrative Procedure Act or the All Writs Act.

From the May 6 edition of Fox News' Hannity:

HANNITY: Democrats vote to protect pedophiles but not veterans in the hate crimes bill?

[...]

HANNITY: And coming up: We told you last week how Democrats oppose protecting veterans under the new hate crimes act. Well, guess what? They did decide to offer protection to pedophiles. The unbelievable details are straight ahead, and much more.

[...]

HANNITY: Democrats just voted to extend special legal protections to pedophiles but refuse to give combat veterans those same protections. Now, do you think that party needs to think long and hard about their priorities?

[...]

HANNITY: Now, during last week's debate on the hate crimes bill, Republicans proposed an amendment that would exempt pedophiles from receiving the protections of that bill that offers victims of hate crimes.

Now, the Democrats voted unanimously against the amendment. Here's what they said.

CLERK OF THE HOUSE: Mr. Scott votes no [...] Ms. Lofgren votes no [...] Mr. Cohen votes no [...] Mr. Johnson votes no [...] Mr. Pierluisi votes no [...] Mr. Gutierrez votes no [...] Mr. Sherman votes no [...] Ms. Baldwin votes no [...] Mr. Weiner votes no [...] Mr. Maffei votes no [...] Mr. Wexler votes no [...] Ms. Waters --

HANNITY: Now, meanwhile, as we first reported on this program last week, one Democratic congresswoman denounced an idea that veterans should receive any sort of protections at all.

And joining me now to discuss what exactly unfolded is Congressman Steve King. He sponsored the amendment that would have excluded pedophiles from this legislation. Congressman, good to see you.

KING: Thanks, Sean. It's good to be with you tonight.

HANNITY: I want to be perfectly clear. So hate -- we have a hate crimes bill, and you're saying, all right, we should exempt pedophiles. Every Democrat says no. But when there is -- the sponsorship of the bill that would also include veterans that are victims of crimes because they're veterans, Democrats -- they wanted them exempt but the pedophiles in. Do I have that right?

KING: You have it right, Sean. They were wrong on both counts, obviously. But you have it absolutely right. And on the top of that, the amendment that I offered to exempt pedophiles from a special protected status was after Tammy Baldwin, one of the lead sponsors on the bill, had argued that the sexual orientation, special protective status in the bill, only covered heterosexuals and homosexuals, so that doesn't include a pedophile. But she opposed the amendment anyway, as did all the Democrats, as you just showed tonight.

HANNITY: All right, Congressman. I got to slow down here, because I don't think I got this right. So the Democrats voted against special protected status to pedophiles in this bill.

KING: Yes.

HANNITY: But when they had a chance to offer special protected status to veterans returning from Iraq, Afghanistan, and other wars, they said no. Tell me that I -- tell me that that didn't happen in Washington. Tell me that I'm really -- I got this whole thing messed up and backwards.

[...]

HANNITY: So I'm trying to understand it. Are we trying, through hate crimes legislation, to get into the thought process behind the crime instead of just punishing the actual crime and the actual act?

KING: Well, Sean, it is a thought. It is the thought crime. And I tried to bring this out in the mark-up before the Judiciary Committee. And I asked the specific question of the sponsors: Is it the perception of the perpetrator, or the perception of the victim?

And I got different answers. But, truthfully, it's both. Now we're trying to, by law, divine what was in head -- in the head of the victimizer, and what's in the head of the victim, who is self-alleged with their particular proclivity and would be protected by law given the circumstances of the legislation that passed off the floor of the House of Representatives.

So I think this is an area of law that we should stay completely away from. I think it brings about this special protected status. And I think that when you set up people that are -- that are victims, then you're dividing people. And so this is an agenda --

HANNITY: All right.

KING: -- of the homosexual activists. And they take this all the way through to imposing same-sex marriage on America.

HANNITY: Right.

KING: That's another part of this, and public affirmation is the goal.

HANNITY: We're running out of time. Is it safe to say that Democrats were willing to protect pedophiles but not offer the same protection to servicemen and women? Is that an accurate statement?

KING: Sean, it is a matter of congressional record. Absolutely true -- beyond any doubt whatsoever. The recorded votes are there to prove just what you've said. They -- and on top of that, [Rep.] Alcee Hastings [D] from Florida, that spoke on the rules debate, and he read a list of about 30 different paraphilias -- proclivities, I call them -- including pedophiles, necrophilia, and a number of things that I wouldn't say on this program or any other. And he said I think all philias whatsoever should be protected by this law.

That means every perversion that you can imagine would be special protected status under the Democrats' bill that passed off the -- floor of the House of Representatives.

[...]

HANNITY: All right. Let's ask this question. We had this segment with Congressman King earlier in the program today. And, literally, we showed the tape. Democrats literally -- he put in an amendment that, in the hate crimes legislation, that pedophiles wouldn't be covered.

All right. Now, I'm against hate crimes altogether, because I want to punish people that commit crimes, not trying to understand the thought process.

STEVE MURPHY (Democratic Strategist): So you're for the legislation?

HANNITY: No, no. I'm against it.

PAMELA GELLER (Atlas Shrugs blogger): Me too.

MURPHY: Exactly.

HANNITY: No, I'm against it.

MURPHY: Exactly.

HANNITY: But the Democrats that would not -- that insisted that pedophiles be included, they denied veterans the same protection. You're the Democrat here. Can you explain or justify that?

MURPHY: It's an absolute stunt. There is no protection for pedophiles in this legislation. It's an attempt to hold people accountable who commit crimes against gays --

HANNITY: You're not answering. No --

MURPHY: -- against Jews, against minorities --

HANNITY: Steve, you gotta be --

MURPHY: -- against women --

HANNITY: Steve, wait a minute. Hang on a second.

MURPHY: -- simply because of what they are.

HANNITY: Steve, they gave an amendment, a special amendment that would take out the protection for pedophiles. All the Democrats voted against it. When they voted -- when they had a vote to protect our veterans, they -- in that case, they weren't going to include them.

MURPHY: Because it was an attempt to kill the legislation by requiring thousands of categories to have to be put in there, as these people are exempt.

HANNITY: All right, so Steve --

GELLER: [Inaudible]

MURPHY: Just like they did with civil rights. Just like they did -- they stopped the legislation against lynching.

HANNITY: It was Robert Byrd -- it was Robert Byrd who was out there filibustering the civil rights bill -- and a lot of the former Klansmen, so --.

MURPHY: Exactly.

GELLER: Listen, I think hate crimes is such a dangerous -- such a dangerous line in the sand. It's like hate speech. To me, all crime is hate. Whatever is motivating you --

HANNITY: Great point. Great point.

GELLER: -- whatever it is that you do, it's hate. Why would you want -- this is America. It's based on the Constitution, rugged individualism.

Why would you want special classes? Why would you want a special class? It is absolutely, positively un-American.

MURPHY: It is a special problem. It is a special problem.

GELLER: A special problem? Where? In what -- yeah --

HANNITY: It's a special problems for veterans. Veterans come home, and they get spit at. Veterans come home and they get called names. Even Harry Reid --

MURPHY: It's the Star of Davids that get knocked over in the cemeteries, not the crosses.

HANNITY: No, you know what? It's veterans -- talk to them. Because I do talk to them. And I do a lot of concerts for them every year, and I get to meet them. If we're going to apply that special protection for pedophiles, shouldn't we at least apply it to veterans?

GREG BUTTLE (former NFL linebacker): Well, a hundred percent. I don't think anyone should ever not even think about that. As a matter of fact, I think they should take veterans, and if you ever served in real combat, don't pay federal taxes anymore.

HANNITY: I agree.

GELLER: Hear, hear.

BUTTLE: I mean, come on.

MURPHY: What happens if you're a veteran pedophile? What are you going to do about that?

GELLER: It's double -- double jeopardy.

HANNITY: Well, you're protected under the pedophile part, but not the veteran part. That's your answer.

GELLER: Yeah, from the waist up, you're covered.

HANNITY: Because the Democrats -- the Democrats protected the --

MURPHY: It's silly. It's a silly argument.

GELLER: It's not.

MURPHY: It's a phony, silly argument.

GELLER: It's a phony, silly law.

HANNITY: -- protected the special category for pedophiles, but they didn't protect it for veterans, and they had both votes. They put their vote on record. It's amazing to me.

From the May 5 edition of Fox News's America's Newsroom:

HEMMER: The conservative blogs are all over this story this morning. -- a report that House Democrats voted to give special protection to pedophiles.

From the April 23 House Judiciary Committee hearing:

KING: This amendment goes to the end of the bill, and it simply says, since we have apparently waived the reading of it, which I do -- it's very short -- it says, "The term sexual orientation as used in this act or any amendments to this act does not include pedophilia." And we've gone through in this debate significant discussion about what sexual orientation means and does not mean. And yet I have not heard from the proponents of this bill into the record a definition of sexual orientation.

I would like to have defined sexual orientation precisely. I recognize, Mr. Chairman, it's unlikely that we will get that done in this committee given the reticence on the part of the majority party to consider any of the changes that we've offered here -- I think in a fashion that is determined to bring this bill out of this committee. And I'm frustrated that we're not able to add better definitions to the ambiguous terms to lock people up in penitentiaries if this bill becomes law.

And, so, this amendment that I have addresses the issue of pedophiles. And under the term "sexual orientation," if it includes those types of proclivities, particularly the one that is most egregious of all -- and that is victimizing children for the sake of sexual activity with them -- the pedophiles should not be protected under this legislation if we're able to adopt this language that's in my amendment. So, my amendment does not specifically define sexual orientation, although I've tried to do that.

But what it does do is say it doesn't include pedophiles, because I think the intent of this committee is clearly that we don't want to provide a, let's just say, special-protected status, for pedophiles. There are others that I would put in that list as well, but this is the one that stands out to me. It should be beyond question that this committee should be able to take a look at this amendment and conclude that whatever we might think about proclivities, pedophiles is not one that should be included. And, so, that's what my -- I'd yield.

REP. JOHN CONYERS (D-MI): The gentleman yields. I want to compliment him on the tenacity with which he has pursued specificity and the seeking of the definitions of many of these terms that are generally, frequently taken for granted, or thought to be somewhere in the law already existing.

KING: Reclaiming -- I thank the gentleman chairman for recognizing that. And I'd point out again that I do have some history with these terms, and having been involved in litigation of these terms, I understand, I think, from that experience the implications that might come forward with this kind of language that seemed to be accepted by a lot of members of this panel.

And so I would urge adoption of my amendment that defines clearly that whatever sexual orientation is, it is not, and does not include pedophiles. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I'd urge adoption of my amendment, and I would yield back the balance of my time.

BALDWIN: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I move to strike the last word in opposition to this amendment, that, well -- the gentleman claims that we have not pinned down the definition for sexual orientation. And, indeed, in our earlier session, yet today, I drew his attention to the fact that there is a definition with regard to the Hate Crimes Statistics Act. During the break, I searched to just confirm that what I had articulated earlier today was indeed the definition and it is: "Sexual orientation is means consensual homosexuality or heterosexuality." That is the definition.

Now, as you've noted earlier, there's only one term defined in this legislation, and that's gender identity on page 14. And the reason for that is that that definition exists nowhere else in federal law. This is the first time it's occurring in federal law. But in every other case, gender disability, sexual orientation, race, national origin, color, and -- I'm missing one. The architecture of the hate crime statutes in the United States is those definitions do not lay within that architecture. They exist elsewhere in federal law, and we rely on them. So there is a clear, concise definition of sexual orientation.

Your amendment is unnecessary and, I would add, inflammatory in terms of insinuations, I would say. But given the definition of sexual orientation meaning "consensual homosexuality or heterosexuality," it is absolutely clear that that could not include pedophilia.

*Correction: This item originally stated that the proposed Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act "defines as a crime acts of attempted violence 'motivated by prejudice based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim.' " However, that quote did not come from the section of the bill that defined new federal crimes. The item has been updated to match the relevant definition of a new federal crime in the bill. Media Matters for America regrets the error.
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    • Author by jamesB (May 06, 2009 2:05 pm ET)
      2  
      Baldwin is right, sexual orientation does not include pedophiles, and this King guy is just being an idiot to push the notion that Democrats are defending them, it's silly. I understand Baldwin's point, but in order to avoid crap coming from King and the rest, maybe she should have just put it in there.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by LuvLuLu (May 06, 2009 2:10 pm ET)
         
      In reality, what they don't want is any Hate Crimes bill at all.

      What they're doing, therefore, is trying to smear the existing bill, and the Democrat sponsors of that bill, by lying about what is in that bill.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by snoopy (May 06, 2009 2:12 pm ET)
      7 4
      If it were true, why would republicans be upset? I think they'd be glad the Dems were trying to protect the GOP.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 2:50 pm ET)
        3 6
        Fox'ers are being ridiculous in insinuating Democrats are protecting pedophiles, but you are being equally ridiculous in implying that the GOP is comprised of pedophiles.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 3:03 pm ET)
          5 2
          You're not being equally ridiculous for equating Snoopy to Fox News and I'm not not being as equally sarcastic.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 3:11 pm ET)
              7
            I never equated Snoopy to Fox News. I am equating their ridiculous insinuations and implications. Their "reach" is irrelevant to what I said, guess you missed that.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 3:25 pm ET)
              5 1
              If we're going to take a partisan look at protecting pedophiles, the GOP loses. Period.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by fairliberal (May 06, 2009 3:45 pm ET)
                  11
                Which party introduced an amendment to exclude protection to pedophiles and also to include veterans as a protected class? The answer, the reps did. And which party defeated both measures, the dems did. Period.
                And when I think of a party protecting pedophiles I think of liberal judges who give them light sentences with sometimes no jail time at all. Compassionate liberalism, for the criminal not the victims.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 06, 2009 3:55 pm ET)
                  8  
                  Show me an example of a SINGLE hate crime commited against a veteran, simply becasue he was a veteran, in the entire history of hate crime legislation. It has NEVER happened. Even in the 1960's when they were (wrongfully) villified by the peacenicks afetr 'Nam, they were NEVER physically attacked. Adding veterans to this bill is a pointless, shameless exercise in pandering. They don't need special protection because they've never been victimized by anyone except the United States Government.

                  As for the Pedophile clause...? If the word "pedophile" is not IN the bill in the first place, calling for their protection as a group, then WHY do they need to be excepted? They don't. The bill gives them nothing from the start. Again a pointless, shameless exercise in padering, this time to the religious nut-bags who still think homosexual somehow means pedophiles. Saying we need to except pedophiles is like saying we need to except martians - or any OTHER group that never got special protection by this bill anyway!!!

                  The 'pub's are just wasting everybodies time with this, and trying to make the dem's look bad with this shameless, pointless and sensless pandering. They add meaningless amendments just so the adults in the room vote them down, all in order to give Fox something to babble about. If you can't see that, you're an idiot.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 4:43 pm ET)
                    5  
                    Because "fair" liberal and the rest of the far right do not know the difference between a homosexual and a pedophile. Period.

                    I am no cheerleader for hate crime legislation, but I certainly do not think our veterans are a class of people that needs special protection. I think more of our veterans than that - they can take care of themselves. Too bad the Republicans and "fair" liberal think so little of them.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by ewl94232 (May 06, 2009 5:12 pm ET)
                       
                    We had some here in the Northwest, big Liberal country. Vets marching in either a 4th of July or Veterans Day parade were verbally attacked and had spit and other items thrown at them. Sorry I didn't take notes so I can't give you precisely where and on what dates, but I promise you it happened.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by seahawks123 (May 07, 2009 2:30 pm ET)
                         
                      It's an urban legend.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (May 07, 2009 10:06 pm ET)
                         
                      I think it's cute that ewl "promised" it happened. Do any sane adults "promise" that some event took place in the past?

                      And who throws spit?
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by alienofwar (May 06, 2009 5:46 pm ET)
                    2  
                    Bingo.
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 3:56 pm ET)
                  4  
                  It was the GOP which introduced the unnecessary and inflammatory amendment. Period.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by snoopy (May 06, 2009 3:33 pm ET)
              2  
              It's called sarcasm, but you sure seem livid about it How did that go again - if you want to make someone livid, tell the truth? Yeah, that was it...
              Report Abuse
              • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 3:40 pm ET)
                  9
                I've never quite been able to muster up sarcasm when discussing pedophilia, but if it entertains you, more power to you.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (May 06, 2009 4:22 pm ET)
                  6  
                  Actually pedophilia entertains, or used to entertain, Mark Foley (R).
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by fairliberal (May 06, 2009 8:49 pm ET)
                      3
                    Actually Foley was never charged with pedophilia not accused of it. But if you wish to speak of criminal behavior by politicians , how about Ted Kennedy or Barney Frank.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by harley (May 06, 2009 9:52 pm ET)
                      3 1

                      Actually Ted Kennedy or Barney Frank were not charged or convicted of any crime, you inbred hick. But if you want to speak of criminal behavior by politicians:

                      Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a
                      convicted child rapist in Florida.


                      * Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to
                      molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in
                      prison.


                      * Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a
                      10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.


                      * Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty
                      to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to
                      anybody who murders an abortion doctor.


                      * Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10
                      years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.


                      * Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in
                      federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.


                      * Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to
                      three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.


                      * Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom
                      Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.


                      * Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended
                      during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after
                      admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.


                      * Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having
                      an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.


                      * Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex
                      parties at the White House during the 1980s.


                      * Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties
                      at the White House during the 1980s.


                      * Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of
                      having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.


                      * Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of
                      child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.


                      * Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of
                      sex crimes involving children.


                      * Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to
                      attempted sexual assault on a child.


                      * Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor
                      working as a congressional page.


                      * Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly
                      Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.


                      * Republican governor Arnold Schwarzenegger allegedly had sex with
                      a 16 year old girl when he was 28.


                      * Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was
                      charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.


                      * Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for
                      distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.


                      * Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"),
                      was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful
                      sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the
                      drug LSD.


                      * Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with
                      molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.


                      * Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having
                      sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after
                      the allegations were reported in the media.


                      * Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to
                      traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a
                      14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.


                      * Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing
                      his genitals to an 11 year old girl.


                      * Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was
                      sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after
                      he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by fairliberal (May 07, 2009 12:33 am ET)
                        1 2
                        Kennedy is a murderer and Frank ran a gay prostitution ring from his home, great role models for the young democrat. I believe those qualifications are called prerequisites in the party. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1980959/posts Another great example http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/usa/news/article_1378582.php/Democratic_Senate_aide_busted_pedophile_plans_for_13_year_old_boy
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by seahawks123 (May 07, 2009 2:31 pm ET)
                             
                          Prostitution? That's just free enterprise at work. Now, hitting on an underage intern, like Mark Foley, that just ain't right.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by Blue Fielder (May 08, 2009 5:21 pm ET)
                            1
                          Freep as a source? You're a troll. Why don't you and your libel shut up while the adults talk?
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 12:33 am ET)
                        1  
                        "Fair" liberal do you enjoy him smacking you around like that for all to see. Because you certainly set up easy ones for him over and over again.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by Floyd (May 07, 2009 9:17 am ET)
                        1  
                        Yeah, sure. You just make that stuff up. How bout some proof of those allegations? I like the way you look into "county board" members to find your illegalities. I'll bet your next sentence is "I couldn't find anything on the democrats".
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by seahawks123 (May 07, 2009 2:32 pm ET)
                             
                          He's not going to do your job for you. The cons are a bunch of hypocrites. Always have bee, always likely will be.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by Tbone Slickens (May 07, 2009 11:16 am ET)
                        1 1
                        Wow...no Demorats in your analysis?


                        REP. JOHN YOUNG (D-Tex.):
                        On June 11, 1976, Colleen Gardner, a former staff secretary to Young, told the New York Times that Young increased her salary after she gave in to his sexual advances. In November, Young, who had run unopposed in the safe Democratic district five consecutive times, w More..as reelected with just 61 percent of the vote. The scandal wouldn't go away, and in 1978 Young was defeated in a Democratic primary runoff.

                        REP. ALLAN HOWE (D-Utah):
                        On June 13, 1976, Howe was arrested in Salt Lake City on charges of soliciting two policewomen posing as prostitutes. Howe insisted he was set up and refused to resign. But the Democratic Party distanced itself from his candidacy and he was trounced by his Republican opponent in the November election.

                        REP. FRED RICHMOND (D-N.Y.):
                        In April 1978, Richmond was arrested in Washington for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old boy. Richmond apologized for his actions, conceding he "made bad judgments involving my private life." In spite of a Democratic primary opponent's attempts to cash in on the headlines, Richmond easily won renomination and reelection. But his career came to an end four years later when, after pleading guilty to possession of marijuana and tax evasion - and amid allegations that he had his staff procure cocaine for him -- he resigned his seat.

                        REP. JOHN HINSON (D-Miss.):
                        On Aug. 8, 1980, during his first reelection bid, Hinson stunned everyone by announcing that in 1976 he had been accused of committing an obscene act at a gay haunt in Virginia. Hinson, married and a strong conservative, added that in 1977 he had survived a fire in a gay D.C. movie theater. He was making the disclosure, he said, because he needed to clear his conscience. But he denied he was a homosexual and refused GOP demands that he resign. Hinson won reelection in a three-way race, with 39 percent of the vote. But three months later, he was arrested on charges of attempted oral sodomy in the restroom of a House office building. He resigned his seat on April 13, 1981.

                        REP. ROBERT BAUMAN (D-Md.):
                        On Oct. 3, 1980, Bauman, a leading "pro-family" conservative, pleaded innocent to a charge that he committed oral sodomy on a teenage boy in Washington. Married and the father of four, Bauman conceded that he had been an alcoholic but had been seeking treatment. The news came as a shock to voters of the rural, conservative district, and he lost to a Democrat in November.

                        REP. DAN CRANE (R-Ill.) and REP. GERRY STUDDS (D-Mass.):
                        The House ethics committee on July 14, 1983, announced that Crane and Studds had sexual relationships with teenage congressional pages -- Crane with a 17-year-old female in 1980, Studds with a 17-year-old male in 1973. Both admitted the charges that same day, and Studds acknowledged he was gay. The committee voted to reprimand the two, but a back-bench Georgia Republican named Newt Gingrich argued that they should be expelled. The full House voted on July 20 instead to censure the two, the first time that ever happened for sexual misconduct. Crane, married and the father of six, was tearful in his apology to the House, while Studds refused to apologize. Crane's conservative district voted him out in 1984, while the voters in Studds's more liberal district were more forgiving. Studds won reelection in 1984 with 56 percent of the vote, and continued to win until he retired in 1996.

                        REP. ERNIE KONNYU (D-Calif.):
                        In August 1987, two former Konnyu aides complained to the San Jose Mercury News that the freshman Republican had sexually harassed them. GOP leaders were unhappy with Konnyu's temperament to begin with, so it took little effort to find candidates who would take him on in the primary. Stanford professor Tom Campbell ousted Konnyu the following June.

                        SEN. BROCK ADAMS (D-Wash.):
                        On Sept. 27, 1988, Seattle newspapers reported that Kari Tupper, the daughter of Adams's longtime friends, filed a complaint against the Washington Democrat in July of 1987, charging sexual assault. She claimed she went to Adams's house in March 1987 to get him to end a pattern of harassment, but that he drugged her and assaulted her. Adams denied any sexual assault, saying they only talked about her employment opportunities. Adams continued raising campaign funds and declared for a second term in February of 1992. But two weeks later the Seattle Times reported that eight other women were accusing Adams of sexual molestation over the past 20 years, describing a history of drugging and subsequent rape. Later that day, while still proclaiming his innocence, Adams ended his campaign.

                        REP. JIM BATES (D-Calif.):
                        Roll Call quoted former Bates aides in October 1988 saying that the San Diego Democrat made sexual advances toward female staffers. Bates called it a GOP-inspired smear campaign, but also apologized for anything he did that might have seemed inappropriate. The story came too close to Election Day to damage Bates, who won easily. However, the following October the ethics committee sent Bates a "letter of reproval" directing him to make a formal apology to the women who filed the complaint. Although the district was not thought to be hospitable to the GOP, Randy "Duke" Cunningham, a former Navy pilot who was once shot down over North Vietnam, ousted Bates in 1990 by fewer than 2,000 votes.

                        REP. GUS SAVAGE (D-Ill.):
                        The Washington Post reported on July 19, 1989, that Savage had fondled a Peace Corps volunteer while on an official visit to Zaire. Savage called the story a lie and blamed it on his political enemies and a racist media. (Savage is black.) In January 1990, the House ethics committee decided that the events did occur, but decided against any disciplinary action because Savage wrote a letter to the woman saying he "never intended to offend" her. Savage was reelected in 1990, but finally ousted in the 1992 primary by Mel Reynolds.

                        REP. BARNEY FRANK (D-Mass.):
                        In response to a story in the Aug. 25, 1989, Washington Times, Frank confirmed that he hired Steve Gobie, a male prostitute, in 1985 to live with and work for him in his D.C. apartment. But Frank, who is gay, said he fired Gobie in 1987 when he learned he was using the apartment to run a prostitution service. The Boston Globe, among others, called on Frank to resign, but he refused. On July 19, 1990, the ethics committee recommended Frank be reprimanded because he "reflected discredit upon the House" by using his congressional office to fix 33 of Gobie's parking tickets. Attempts to expel or censure Frank failed; instead the House voted 408-18 to reprimand him. The fury in Washington was not shared in Frank's district, where he won reelection in 1990 with 66 percent of the vote, and has won by larger margins ever since.

                        SEN. DANIEL INOUYE (D-Hawaii):
                        In October 1992, Republican Senate nominee Rick Reed began running a campaign commercial that included a surreptitiously taped interview with Lenore Kwock, Inouye's hairdresser. Kwock said Inouye had sexually forced himself on her in 1975 and continued a pattern of sexual harassment, even as Kwock continued to cut his hair over the years. Inouye, seeking a sixth term, denied the charges. And Kwock said that by running the commercial, Reed had caused her more pain than Inouye had. Reed was forced to pull the ad, and while many voters took out their anger on the Republican, Inouye was held to 57 percent of the vote - the lowest total of his career. A week later, a female Democratic state legislator announced that she had heard from nine other women who claimed Inouye had sexually harassed them over the past decade. But the women didn't go public with their claims, the local press didn't pursue the story, and the Senate Ethics Committee decided to drop the investigation because the accusers wouldn't participate in an inquiry.


                        REP MEL REYNOLDS (D-Ill.):
                        Freshman Reynolds was indicted on Aug. 19, 1994, on charges of having sex with a 16-year-old campaign worker and then pressuring her to lie about it. Reynolds, who is black, denied the charges and said the investigation was racially motivated. The GOP belatedly put up a write-in candidate for November, but Reynolds dispatched him in the overwhelmingly Democratic district with little effort. Reynolds was convicted on Aug. 22, 1995 of 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography, was sentenced to five years in prison, and resigned his seat on October 1. Less..
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by seahawks123 (May 07, 2009 2:34 pm ET)
                          1  
                          The difference is, the Democrats don't pretend to be the party of "family values". Humans of all stripes are weak and sometimes do wrong things. The cons, however, make hypocrisy an art form.
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by my4cents (May 06, 2009 9:55 pm ET)
                      1 1
                      Deflect and derail, right?

                      " Dems voted to "protect," "defend" pedophiles"

                      what is your fair opinion, (as Hannity would ask) yes or no?
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 07, 2009 9:32 am ET)
                      1  
                      You make it too easy: http://www.armchairsubversive.org/

                      Now how about a nice hot cup of STFU?
                      Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 06, 2009 3:41 pm ET)
          6  
          It may be ridiculous, but a sracstic post on a web-siote is NOT the same as a news broadcast. To make that comparison is "ridiculous." Also... there more evidence than you may realize for his point: http://www.armchairsubversive.org/

          Count only the number of "plead guilty to's" and "covicted of's" on that site - it's over 50, and that ignores the "arrested for's" and "accused of's" - and I think you see that there's no only some hypocrasy going on, but rather a bit of projection and "drity-laundry-hiding" by way of distraction.

          The fact remains that Democratic men who do cheat on their wives (as reprehensiable behavior as that is) do so with grown women, as opposed conservatives who seem to often do so with underaged boys.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Paulito (May 06, 2009 2:45 pm ET)
      3  
      Priceless.
      Fox are so stupid that they don't know that a Hate Crime is defined by the victim,not the offender....this amendment is actually a vote AGAINST protecting paedophiles.
      I'd be interested to see who voted in favor! Why do I have the feeling that this one will quickly disappear....
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 2:52 pm ET)
        3  
        Amazing. Simply amazing. I reached the same conclusion - but did so only by invoking the "the exact opposite of what Fox News says is true" rule.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by anotheramerican (May 06, 2009 4:49 pm ET)
          7
        Paulito,

        While I disagree with you that the amendment is a vote against protecting pedophiles, you do make a good point about the crime being defined by the victim as to the perpetrator's intent.

        That is simply ridiculous and shows how far the legal system has strayed from clear thinking. Can anyone name any "hate" crime that is not already covered by existing legislation? The crime should not be dependent on the victim's definition, but by the commission of the act.

        The whole bill is as Baldwin said, "...unnecessary and, I would add, inflammatory in terms of insinuations."


        Report Abuse
        • Author by mrhebert74 (May 06, 2009 5:24 pm ET)
          7  
          The rationale for "hate crime" legislation, which I agree with, is that a battery (for example) that is also a hate crime is intended not only to harm the victim, but also to intimidate a whole category of people. I don't think it's any worse to beat up a gay person than to beat up a straight person, unless the motivation is to show the community that gay people might be assaulted specifically because they are gay. "Hate crime" legislation specifically states that as a society we are willing to punish this kind of crime more severely than a similar crime motivated by some non-bigot reason. We add special categories to crimes in other ways, too, such as when murder cases have "enhancements," like sexual assault, that make the perpetrator subject to harsher penalties.
          That's why the entire bill is necessary. The reason the proposed amendment is not necessary is that sexual orientation already does not include pedophilia. By the way, that's also the reason it's false that anyone protected pedophiles. The reason the amendment was inflammatory is that it suggested an equivalence between homosexuality and pedophilia. Steve King, Republican of Iowa, knew this. It was a not-very-clever trap: either vote for the amendment and affirm an equivalence between homosexuality and pedophilia that has to be specifically separated in legislation, or vote against the amendment and have the wingnut media morons saying you protected pedophiles. Are they morons? Or do they just bear false witness in the hope that morons will believe them?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 6:47 pm ET)
               
            I don't completely disagree with you. However, I think when we begin changing our laws concerning a certain segmment of people in response to someone terrorizing a certain segment of people that we are playing right into the terrorists' hands. (I hope you understand my use of terrorists there - by no means meant to suggest an equivalence to Al-Quaida and the like.) I believe the sorry sacks that perpetrate these crimes should be dealt with harshly - just as any piece of crap that attacks someone should be. I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of making them "special" because they are not.

            I completely agree with you on the pedophilia crap. That is why I am no longer a Republican.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by military_husband (May 07, 2009 1:15 am ET)
              2  
              Another reason for the crimes being labeled as "hate crimes" has to do with getting the feds involved. This can be very important when dealing with an organized effort to terrorize a segment of the local population as frequently the local authorities do not have the resources. Also there is the problem of some local law enforcement having the same ideas as those who committed the crime. If the local sheriff sees no problem with beating up on gays he is less likely to make a serious effort to find out who did it. If the crime is then listed as a hate crime the feds step in and the sheriff is nullified.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 07, 2009 9:37 am ET)
                1  
                You know, I've never been that big on "hate crime" legislation myself. Though I despise the action of those that commit them, I failed to see what this legislation coudl really accomplish, esp w/o entering into the "thought police" realm. But you example of the back-woods sheriff deciding not to investigate has changed my mind. These crimes MUST be elevated to the fed level, to prevent redneck politics from protecting the attackers. Thank you, you've given me a solid argunment. I'll be using it from now on.
                Report Abuse
    • Author by progressivepirate (May 06, 2009 2:50 pm ET)
         
      What can be done about all of this lying, misinforming, and slander by Fox News? Are they violating FCC rules?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Buzzramjet (May 06, 2009 3:28 pm ET)
        1  
        Fox claims they are "infotainment" and thus not covered by laws saying they have to tell the truth as a true news organization would have to.

        Strange but true.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 06, 2009 3:46 pm ET)
          2  
          Actually a news organization DOES NOT have to "tell the truth." The courts have ruled that broadcasting fake news is in fact legal, and protected under 1st ammendment. Sad but true. The was a poster here who had been putting up a link to the court case. I don't staill have it, but it's very appropriate to waht you just said. Sadly - they CAN lie, all they want.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by susanai (May 06, 2009 10:33 pm ET)
           
        Violating FCC rules? Probably not. But they are violating my sense of justice and fairness.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Joey (May 06, 2009 2:57 pm ET)
      3  
      I watched this happen live on Hannity last night (masochistic, I know). I'll put money on Hannity getting Worst Person honors tonight.

      And love the winking insinuation that gay=pedophile (thoroughly debunked). They need some new material.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (May 06, 2009 3:28 pm ET)
        1  
        And love the winking insinuation that gay=pedophile

        Joey, did you see Joe the Pretend PLumber's latest public clown show? He mentions that he has gay friends, and they understand that he keeps them away from his children. This is thie thinking of today's GOP.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne (May 07, 2009 10:11 am ET)
             
          Happy Birthday Colonel!
          Report Abuse
        • Author by jeter2 (May 07, 2009 4:54 pm ET)
             
          Hey Colonel happy birthday!

          I won't mention the Angels if you don't mention the Yanks. Ha!
          Report Abuse
    • Author by jodyroy (May 06, 2009 3:08 pm ET)
      3  
      Coming from a family of journalists and newspapers publishers/editors, I can't understand how these people can so blatently lie about this stuff without getting sued. Hannity especially spouts outrageous lies every day. Why isn't he in jail?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by jeter2 (May 06, 2009 3:23 pm ET)
        3  
        Jody, I think in this instance saying Hannity belongs in jail is a tad severe, but it is amazing that this guy either twists the truth or blatantly lies & continues to be employed. Ok, I suppose FOX sets the bar very low on standards ;-)

        This amendment wasn't necessary. Pedophiles are already not protected. Hannity is just trying to enflame the dumb asses that don't know any better than to get their "news" from him.

        Hey maybe someday someone will haul this guy into court. Now that would be priceless :-)
        Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (May 06, 2009 4:54 pm ET)
            7
          jeter,

          If pedophiles are already not protected, then explicitly stating it in the bill does no harm. If that is the case, why would anyone object to having it stated explicitly?

          We've seen the same obsfucation delivered by Obama in pretending he didn't vote against the "baby born alive act". It is all an act to deceive.

          Baldwin's stated her real motive for objecting to this common sense amendment. She did not want to offend gays. My guess is because she thinks the law could then be used to accuse her of a hate crime.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 5:05 pm ET)
            4  
            "If pedophiles are already not protected, then explicitly stating it in the bill does no harm. If that is the case, why would anyone object to having it stated explicitly?"

            Really? That is really how your thought process works for how our elected officials should be working? If we can attach an ammendment to every law stating explicitly that pedophiles are not included we should do this? Are you serious?

            "We've seen the same obsfucation delivered by Obama in pretending he didn't vote against the "baby born alive act". It is all an act to deceive."

            So, you believe that Obama and the Democrats actually want to protect pedophiles and that including an ammendment to each and every bill explicitly excluding pedophiles is "common sense"? I'm not sure you should be in the conversation with the adults then.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (May 06, 2009 5:25 pm ET)
                5
              mike,
              What did Baldwin mean by this in reacting to King's proposed amendment, ...Baldwin said that it "is unnecessary and, I would add, inflammatory in terms of insinuations."

              Who is she trying to protect from "inflammatory" insinuations?

              ps. You are presenting a straw man argument. I never said to exclude pedophiles in every bill.

              However, I do not believe you should make thoughts a crime as 'hate' legislation attempts to do.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 6:00 pm ET)
                2  
                "Who is she trying to protect from "inflammatory" insinuations?"

                The amendment was trying to smear gay people by falsely suggesting pedophilia is an orientation.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by juliajayne (May 06, 2009 6:29 pm ET)
                  2  
                  I swear sometimes that BF ain't that obtuse. But then he goes and changes my ever lovin' mind. Hey AA, read the comments on this thread from the start. Reread the article. It specifically tells why pedophiles don't need any inclusion in this bill. The language, as pointed out, is only seeking to equate homosexuality with pedophiles. Quit being disingenuous.

                  Report Abuse
              • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 6:50 pm ET)
                1  
                Because clearly Baldwin loves pedophilia and wants to protect it. Right?

                Come on, we are trying to have an educated, rational, adult discussion about a serious topic. Something that I happen to find fun and educational. Please take part in it as an adult or, you know....DON'T.
                Report Abuse
    • Author by political_left-religious_right (May 06, 2009 3:49 pm ET)
      2  
      I've missed something here; perhaps someone can help me.

      Where's the part about veterans? Was there something else being enacted or discussed in Congress that pertained to protecting veterans, and the Democrats voted it down? If not, how does Fox get to make it up?

      Also, if you're in the mood for a good laugh, go ahead and follow the link given below the picture of "House Democrats Defend Pedophiles Over Veterans"; the comments are hilarious. Or they would be, except that there are screaming hordes of people who actually think that way.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by RKAllen (May 07, 2009 3:16 am ET)
        1  
        I had followed the link and winced when I read this particular gem by a poster called Gina,
        What is the difference? Both perversions are equally abhorrent. 50 years ago people "FELT" (emphasis on feeling) repulsed by homosexual acts just as they are repulsed by pedophilia today. At this rate, in another 50 (or less it looks like with the democrats starting to support these deviants) years we will all be told we must accept child rape or we will be labeled a bigot! Just because a small minority want the rest of us to accept their deviance by allowing gay marriage it still doesn't not make it morally right and it never will be. It might make you feel better about your deviance, but in the end homosexual activity is still an abomination and it always will be--no matter what mere humans are brainwashed or forced to accept. Sin is sin. God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. That goes for everybody no matter what the behavior is. A kleptomaniac is "BORN that way" too!! We still prosecute them for stealing.
        Here is the funny thing... or maybe it isn't... but at least interesting. Had this person posted anywhere else but Fox Nation, say on here for example, she/he would have been eviscerated for the moron she/he is.
        But post a comment like this on Fox Nation and you won't get a response of anykind from the herd of people who post there. Not one single reponse to this message. But try to point out the inaccuracies of Fox reporting on this issue and you are accused of hating the troops and sleeping with your children.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by fishergirlusmc (May 06, 2009 4:00 pm ET)
        10
      If I crack your head in with a brick and say nothing, why is it worse if I crack you in the head and call you a name? I still bashed your brains in. Why is one more punishable than the other? Why is one crime worse than the other?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 4:05 pm ET)
        4  
        Because a hate crime terrorizes a particular group.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 4:31 pm ET)
            7
          If the law for such crimes is not sufficient, then increase the penalties, change the law. Hate crimes punish thought, they should all be done away with. Murder is murder, assault is assault, and should be punished accordingly regardless.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 4:35 pm ET)
            2  
            What?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mrhebert74 (May 06, 2009 5:32 pm ET)
              4  
              I believe right ON means, "I am trying to ignore the well-established principle that intent is part of a crime, because I am afraid of gay people, so if someone intimidates them by commiting a bigotry-motivated crime, I would only be too happy to pretend that would be exactly the same as any other crime."
              Report Abuse
              • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 5:40 pm ET)
                  2
                Say what you mean, and leave your absurd summaries of my positions to yourself.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by mrhebert74 (May 06, 2009 5:50 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Here's what I mean: your position ignores the well-established principle that intent is part of a crime. Your argument is unsophisticated and not worthy of consideration.
                  But by all means, don't leave your positions to yourself. Without winguts to laugh at, this site would be no fun.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 6:04 pm ET)
                      3
                    Unsophisticated? Intent goes directly to the act, the intention. Thought is hardly the same thing, obviously. I am surprised someone who boasts of their own sophistication can't understand the difference between the two.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by mary59 (May 06, 2009 6:51 pm ET)
                      3  
                      Intent does matter in criminal convictions. "Involuntary manslaughter" vs. premeditated murder, as an example. We're not just referring to "thoughts" if a crime is committed. The obvious example of this was when the KKK lynched random black men to intimidate African Americans.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 6:57 pm ET)
                        1 2
                        I understand. And, I do see a distinction between intent. If someone killed another by accident that should be taken into account. What should not be taken into account, in my opinion, is whether or not the person they accidentally killed is white or black or gay or straight or a nice guy or a total A-hole.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by seahawks123 (May 06, 2009 10:19 pm ET)
                          2  
                          Good. Because that's not what hate crime laws do. Instead, they measure the intent of the perpetrator. Did they intend to terrorize a group of folks? If yes, then it's a hate crime. If not, then it doesn't matter what the status of the individual is.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 12:32 am ET)
                            1 1
                            The men who killed Matthew Sheppard were not terrorizing a group of people. They were killing an innocent young man because he was gay and they were homophobic. (And probably closet cases.)
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Handsome Pete (May 07, 2009 9:00 am ET)
                                 
                              They killed a young man because he was gay, and you don't think that sends a message to gay people?
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by seahawks123 (May 07, 2009 2:36 pm ET)
                                 
                              Yes they were terrorizing a group of people. Intent means something in crime. You can't get around it.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 4:28 pm ET)
                                   
                                They were not terrorizing a group, they were terrorizing a certain person they saw as weak because they were bullies. Anytime someone is attacked it could be construed that way.

                                I used to get jumped when I was a kid walking home from school because I was a white kid in a black neighborhood. But, really, they were just bullies who happened to be black and saw a chance to beat up a kid who was different than them.

                                We don't need "special" laws for this. Our legal system should alreay be equipped to handle such things. If the penalties are not harsh enough, then increase them. Do not have different penalties because this guy was killed because he was an Arab which is somehow worse than this guy who was killed because he was a postman (or whatever). Who cares? Punish the acts.
                                Report Abuse
                    • Author by mrhebert74 (May 07, 2009 6:08 pm ET)
                         
                      Here's right ON: "Unsophisticated? Intent goes directly to the act, the intention. Thought is hardly the same thing, obviously. I am surprised someone who boasts of their own sophistication can't understand the difference between the two."

                      Or to put it another way: "Oh, crud. My argument is indeed unsophisticated. I will deflect this by pretending there's a big difference between intent and thought. I'll add 'obviously' to make sure no one really thinks hard about it. I will also pretend that the guy who pointed out that my argument was unsophisticated was 'boasting' about himself."

                      More, please, right ON. I can't wait for your third-tier cleverness.
                      Report Abuse
          • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (May 06, 2009 4:42 pm ET)
               
            Hate crimes punish thought (RightOn)

            RO, do you think there should be a distinction between first degree murder and manslaughter?

            (This same question could be directed at FishergirlUSMC, but somehow I think you're a slightly more likely candidate to get something out of it)
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 4:31 pm ET)
                 
              Involuntary manslaughter I do. If someone killed another by accident (or something like that) then I am OK with that being taken into consideraion.

              However, if someone kills another person on purpose I do not care whether they planned it out or it was in the heat of the moment. "Passion" does not justify it for me in anyway. If your impulse control is so poor that you could not help but get so angry as to kill another citizen, then you are a danger to the rest of us and I think for the good of society you should be locked up.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 4:51 pm ET)
            2  
            I agree. But, then would you admit that including the veterans in this law is simply a red herring designed to distract? I do not agree with hate crimes legislation, but I hold that belief across the board. I also think the obvious attempt to transpose homosexuality with pedophilia in the minds of the American public is disgraceful at best.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 4:54 pm ET)
                 
              Absclutely, I agree with you.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 5:08 pm ET)
                2  
                Agreed. This is a case where I think many on the right used to be in agreement with those of a more libertarian persuasion. Unfortunately for the Republicans they allow and advocate for nutcases like Steve King to make their arguments. Once you start accusing the other side of coddling pedophiles and hating veterans you have lost the argument and, frankly, the attention of most of the American people.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by RKAllen (May 07, 2009 2:51 am ET)
            1  
            Hate crimes punish thought, they should all be done away with. Murder is murder, assault is assault
            What about premeditated murder? To take this discussion a little further I will give you the definition:
            Premeditation, frequently referred to in the vernacular with the term "in cold blood", is contemplation of acting out an intended crime, thinking about, planning, or plotting a crime beforehand and not in a moment of duress or imminent danger
            Premeditated murder is defined as:
            the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension. It is usually defined as one of the most serious forms of homicide, and is punished more severely than manslaughter or other types of murder - usually with the death penalty or a life sentence without the possibility of parole.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 4:37 pm ET)
                 
              I understand and I am not denying that the law recognizes such a distinction. I just don't agree. If someone plans out a killing and executes they are clearly a danger and should be locked up. However, if someone lacks the self control to keep themselves from killing another in anger, I believe they are just as dangerous to society, if not more so.

              I will never understand how people who plan the killing get life, while people who kill in the heat of passion get less than a decade behind bars sometimes. What are the chances this person may get angry again? Somehow it's not as bad if you killed someone because you were angry rather than in "cold blood". I think if either way you may have an issue with cold blood if you consider killing someone an option when you are angry.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Blue Fielder (May 08, 2009 5:24 pm ET)
               
            "URRR THOUGHTCRIME URR"

            So murder and manslaughter are no different, troll?

            Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 4:35 pm ET)
            3
          Also, talk to prosecutors. It is often times difficult to get a maximum conviction for hate crimes on assaults so a plea bargain risks reducing the punishment to even less than what an assault charge would sentence.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 4:37 pm ET)
            2  
            What exactly are you advocating?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 4:43 pm ET)
                5
              Have someone explain them to you, they are clear enough.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 4:47 pm ET)
                1  
                You say that if the law for certain crimes is not sufficient, then increase the penalties and change the law.... OK.... well... that's the idea behind hate crime legislation, which you somehow oppose. What do you think is an acceptable way to change the law when someone is murdered because they are gay?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 4:53 pm ET)
                    5
                  Murder is murder, the act deserves the maximum punishment. If it's premeditated, first degree murder then the penalty in many areas is death. A new hate crime law would not make the punishment any more severe. It should be unnecessary, and as I said, it punishes thought.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 4:57 pm ET)
                    3  
                    So you meant don't change the law when you wrote "change the law". OK then.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 5:03 pm ET)
                         
                      When I said change the law, I meant increase the penalties, as I said. If the law does not punish equally, change it, or push for strict enforcement. I want the same laws against the same acts enforced equally on everyone. If police don't enforce the law equally, they need to be reprimanded accordingly. We don't need a new law to do that.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by seahawks123 (May 06, 2009 10:23 pm ET)
                           
                        A murder as part of a hate crime is not the same crime. Even with murder, there is something called "Aggravated Murder", which takes the circumstances into account. The precedent is long established.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 5:01 pm ET)
                    1  
                    We have always punished thought. When you punish someone for premeditated murder, you're punishing not just the murder but the thought too.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 5:07 pm ET)
                         
                      No you are not, not in the same way. You are punishing the act as a premeditated act, as opposed to other acts of murder. You are not punishing because of who was murdered. There needs to be degrees here, that is obvious.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 5:14 pm ET)
                           
                        I do agree with that. I am OK with the different degrees as far as intent. I just do not care what, in the mind of the defendant, justified that intent. Other than for proving their guilt, that is. I understand the prosecutors want to use motive whenever they can. I just do not think it should affect the punishment so much.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 5:16 pm ET)
                           
                        You're punishing the thought of murder and the act of murder.

                        And I don't understand what you are trying to convey in the above post.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 5:23 pm ET)
                            1
                          You are not punishing one's thought in the amount of hate they have for someone, which is what a hate crime does. If you can't understand the obvious difference, then you are just stubborn.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 5:32 pm ET)
                               
                            -I still don't understand what you're trying to convey.

                            -I would say a hate crime is premeditated (fill in the crime).
                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by mrhebert74 (May 06, 2009 5:44 pm ET)
                           
                        Yes you are, yes in the same way. You are essentially arguing that a hate crime is any crime committed against (in this case) a gay person. But that is not the case. A hate crime is a crime committed against (in this case) a gay person because he or she was gay, with the intended effect of intimidating all gay people. Hate crime legislation is not about "who was murdered." Just like other "special circumstances" that in society's eyes make a crime worse (think of the murder of Sandra Cantu for three such examples), whether the act of murder was also an act of racial or homophobic hatred is relevant to society.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 6:40 pm ET)
                            1
                          But who cares why they did it? Other than to figure out motive to convict them?

                          I don't care if they attacked me because I am gay or because I am black, or because I am wearing a short skirt. I only care that the assailant is caught and prosecuted for the crime he committed.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mrhebert74 (May 07, 2009 6:11 pm ET)
                               
                            "I don't care if they attacked me because bla bla bla,"

                            But the law does care. That's the way it is, but wingnuts want to have an exception for gay people.
                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by seahawks123 (May 06, 2009 10:25 pm ET)
                        2  
                        It's not who, but why. If someone murders a straight person thinking they are gay, they should be charged with a hate crime due to their intent.
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                        • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 12:36 am ET)
                            1
                          Right. If someone tortures and kills a gay man because they are Jeffrey Dahmer it is not as bad legally as someone who kills a gay man because they are a gay man? Come on. Is this where we need to go with the justice system? I just do not believe so.
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 5:10 pm ET)
                         
                      I'm actually not a huge fan of all the different degrees either. I think there should be a distinction whether or not the crime was purposeful and whether or not the defendant knew what he or she was doing. But, I do not care if they planned the attack for months or came up with it in the car over an argument.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Handsome Pete (May 07, 2009 9:11 am ET)
                           
                        Someone who kills another person in the heat of passion is decidedly more redeemable than someone who plans a murder for months. One might need anger management to learn to control their temper, the other is a sociopath who may never be able to live in a civilized society. If you can't see the difference...
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 4:40 pm ET)
                             
                          If your impulse control is so poor that you actually KILL another in the heat of passion, than anger managment is not going to save you. And, I would consider you a grave threat to society.
                          Report Abuse
                • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 4:55 pm ET)
                  1  
                  In my opinion if the punishment for the actual crime itself (murder, assault, etc.) is not enough than we should increase the punishment. I do not think that who the victim is, or the rationale behind the defendant's actions, should truly play a part in the punishment side.

                  But, once again, the attempt to bring pedophilia into the argument by the far right is disgusting and another example of the worst of politics. It is also why the Republicans are down below 25% in this country.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 5:03 pm ET)
                       
                    Well said.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 5:05 pm ET)
                    1  
                    I disagree. To me, there's a difference between a crime perpetrated for financial gain and one committed against someone because they are a minority.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 6:43 pm ET)
                        1
                      I understand your argument and I am not saying it is without merit. I also understand that I am not in a protected class, so that may tint my judgement on such things. I just happen to not agree with you. I don't care, personally, whether they attacked me for my money or because they think I'm gay or whatever. I just care that they attacked me.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by seahawks123 (May 07, 2009 2:38 pm ET)
                           
                        Well, you can go on believing that. It's a free country. However, the rest of us are free to decide that hate crimes deserve extra attention.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 06, 2009 5:09 pm ET)
                    3  
                    I do not think that who the victim is, or the rationale behind the defendant's actions, should truly play a part in the punishment side.

                    So you disagree with leniency in the case of crimes of passion? Because those cases do exactly what you are against above, and have been part of the judicial system for years.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 6:35 pm ET)
                        1
                      I do disagree with that for the most part. I do not really care if the defendant planned to kill his/her spouse for months or decided to because they caught them cheating. I do not see such a clear distinction between those two.

                      I understand that I tend to be a results oriented person and sometimes cannot see the nuance where necessary and that there are thoughtful, intelligent, people on the other side of this argument. I just think there is a lot of time spent trying to figure out motive on the punishment for an individual and I do not see the importance. I do understand that the intent of the perpetrator is important. I just do not care so much as why the perpetrator decided to become a perp and make a victim.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by RKAllen (May 07, 2009 10:33 am ET)
                           
                        I do not really care if the defendant planned to kill his/her spouse for months
                        Surely you must agree that a person, caught in the act of planning a murder certainly should be punished. You are not advocating, I assume, that thinking about and planning a murder, even though you may not have had the opportunity to act upon it, is not a punishable crime.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 4:45 pm ET)
                             
                          If there is evidence that they are "planning" a murder then certainly. Just like you could be busted for "planning" any major crime.

                          However, "thinking" about killing someone is not a crime. If you have never ever "thought" about committing a crime then maybe I am crazy. I have "thought" about doing a lot of things that are crimes. I just DON'T DO THEM.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by seahawks123 (May 07, 2009 2:39 pm ET)
                           
                        It's important to the sense of justice that intent be taken into account. You are free to disagree but you are in the vast minority.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 4:47 pm ET)
                             
                          I think you might be surpised how many people do not agree with you on the sense of justice comments. I think the familes of those that are killed in the "heat of passion" may not think they got the same justice when the killer gets out in fifteen years. They may feel that once someone shows that they will intentionally kill another, they should be handled as such - a killer.
                          Report Abuse
                  • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 5:11 pm ET)
                    4  
                    I disagree. Hate crimes are different than "regular crimes". Hate crimes are basically done to send a broader message to an entire class of people that they are not welcomed to be free or live simply because of who they are. You're terrorizing a class of people and that should be taken into consideration.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 5:28 pm ET)
                        1
                      I understand that point, it is not lost on me. I just believe that it punishes thought above and beyond the act, which the punishment should be the same applied equally no matter how much hatred is involved. It is my opinion.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 5:33 pm ET)
                        1  
                        We're punishing the terrorism aspect.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 5:36 pm ET)
                           
                        Question: Should there be extra penalties for killing a cop?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 5:43 pm ET)
                            2
                          Is the punishment for killing a cop because the murderer is sending a message of terror to all cops?
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 5:55 pm ET)
                               
                            It doesn't matter because I believe there should be extra penalties for killing a cop. I asked you that because you believe there should be no extra penalties for hate crimes so I wanted to see how far you took you're argument, if it would be consistent or not.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 5:59 pm ET)
                                1
                              It most certainly does matter, if you want your comparison to be valid. Nice sidestep.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 6:04 pm ET)
                                   
                                The answer is yes. Now you answer my question.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 6:06 pm ET)
                                     
                                  Actually, I don't know. We as a civil society just don't like when people kill cops.
                                  Report Abuse
                                • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 6:08 pm ET)
                                    1
                                  Well I disagree, killing a cop is not punishing the murderer's thought at all. It is directly related to the act of killing a law enforcement officer in the line of duty in preventing crimes. There is no such parameters in hate crimes, it is purely punishing the thought.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 6:47 pm ET)
                                       
                                    I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to relate thought to killing a cop. I just wanted to know if you support extra penalties for killing a cop (you said earlier that punishment should be applied equally for the same crime)?
                                    Report Abuse
                        • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 6:37 pm ET)
                             
                          No, I do not believe there should be a different punishment for killing a cop. I do not care who the victim is. I only care that there is a victim.

                          I understand that the law has taken into consideration crimes of passion differently than premeditated murder. I am not suggesting to law does not. I just happen not to agree with that aspect of the law.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by loonz (May 06, 2009 6:57 pm ET)
                               
                            First time offender vs habitual offender - should punishment for the same crime be different?
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 7:47 pm ET)
                                 
                              I do believe that a first-time offender should probably not be treated the same as a repeat offender. However, if you are pushing for the 3 strikes law and legislation like that - I am certainly NOT in favor of that. I believe there should be discretion for the judge concerning the actual case in front of them. I trust most juries and most judges to understand the case in front of them than to make restrictions on all cases. I know that sounds crazy to some because we always hear about terrible judgements and terrible decisions, but I think most juries and most judges usually do the right thing.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by paligap (May 06, 2009 10:26 pm ET)
                                   
                                If the thought behind a crime shouldn't matter, then why do our laws differentiate between premeditated and spontaneous crimes? If the victim of a crime shouldn't matter, then why do our laws differentiate between murders of police and children and murders of everyone else?
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 12:44 am ET)
                                     
                                  I am not saying the law doesn't. It does. I am saying that I diagree with that.

                                  I think we spend too much time on thought and not enough time on punishing the actions. I also believe that this is what leads to such short prison sentences for lesser degrees of murder. Meanwhile, our non-violent drug offenders are given mandatory minimums.

                                  I think prisons are for those that have proven themselves to be dangerous to society. Once you knowingly, purposefully kill another citizen you forfeit your right to be a member of our society. I don't care if you did it to rob them or because you are afraid to admit you want to kiss boys. It's all the same to me.
                                  Report Abuse
                        • Author by my4cents (May 06, 2009 10:02 pm ET)
                             
                          If it can be established that the cop was killed for being a cop, YES.
                          Report Abuse
      • Author by jeter2 (May 06, 2009 4:44 pm ET)
          7
        Why is one more punishable than the other? Why is one crime worse than the other?

        Because I hurt your feelings before I killed you?

        Hey I'm with you, killing that is both willful and premeditated is killing, no matter what the motivation.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (May 06, 2009 4:46 pm ET)
            7
          Jeter, Can you explain it to Victor then, because he doesn't understand it.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Max Credits (May 06, 2009 4:49 pm ET)
            4  
            It is YOU who does not understand that a hate crime terrorizes a particular group. I get it.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by military_husband (May 07, 2009 1:44 am ET)
            3  
            Do you guys really not get it? WE have TONS of laws on the books that go to intent (what the person was thinking). Was the person intending to murder the person or was it a spur of the moment decision or was it an accident that could have been prevented? While someone died in every case above, they are not the same crime. And as far as who was killed being an issue, look at the difference in sentencing when someone kills a police officer instead of a regular citizen. How about when someone kills an elected official? Or a federal agent? These different cases would all be murder but the specifics effect the crime listed, who prosecutes the criminal and the sentencing guidelines.

            And if you are really arguing that we should not go by intent, then why make all of the anti terrorism laws after 9-11? I mean, who cares if the guys flying the planes into buildings were doing it to cause terror or inflict damage on the entire United States? They killed people so it was murder and nothing more, right? Right? No it wasn't and no one would say it was. It was an act of terror against a group of people (the US). Stop pretending that the intent or "thought" is what is hanging you up.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 4:54 pm ET)
                 
              I don't care whether the person killed my wife in a spur of the moment or because they had planned it out. I want them both treated as killers.

              I do not think that police officers, federal agents, or elected officals, or any other citizens should be treated special when they are victims. They are not any better or any worse than the rest of us. The punishment should be harsh no matter who you attack.

              We absolutely should NOT make laws in reaction to a specific incident. The Patriot Act is exactly the wrong thing to do. Reactionary law is based on fear and is almost always a bad idea.

              As for the terrorists on 9/11 - it was mass murder and should be treated as such. Anyone who kills thousands of people should be treated as such. As far as their punishment goes, I don't care if they did it in the spur of the moment or they planned it out. Do you actually believe that if someone is a mass murderer, but they didn't plan it out - it was not in cold blood, and they just blew their lid and started shooting people that they are somehow less dangerous? I just don't see it.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne (May 06, 2009 6:43 pm ET)
          2  
          Jeter, honey. Have you ever heard the song "Strange Fruit"? Here are the lyrics for you and anyone else who doesn't understand the specific and reprehensible nature of hate crimes.

          Southern trees bear strange fruit
          Blood on the leaves
          Blood at the root
          Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze
          Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees
          Pastoral scene of the gallant south
          The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
          The scent of magnolia sweet and fresh
          Then the sudden smell of burning flesh
          Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck
          for the rain to gather
          for the wind to suck
          for the sun to rot
          for the tree to drop
          Here is a strange and bitter crop





          Report Abuse
          • Author by mary59 (May 06, 2009 6:55 pm ET)
               
            A powerful song. Speaks so well to the topic. Thanks, JJ
            Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 6:55 pm ET)
               
            I know Billie Holliday quite well. It is an excellent song. However, I do not want the legal system taking into account whether or not there are black bodies or white bodies hanging from the tree. I want the legal system to work for everyone the same.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by juliajayne (May 06, 2009 7:22 pm ET)
              2  
              There were no white bodies hanging on trees like you saw back in the 40's and 50's. That's the point.

              If there was one or two it wasn't specifically because they were white. But the black bodies were specifically because they were black. The sheer number alone, and also the visciousness of the crimes, should convince you that hate crimes target groups specifically with the intent to intimidate. And that specific language in the law should be mandated to deal with that.



              Report Abuse
              • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 12:46 am ET)
                  1
                Why? I just do not agree. Why should those that kill whites get lesser sentences than those who kill blacks? They should both get life. I just do not want the legal system seeing a difference based on the race or gender or sexual preference of the victims.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by loonz (May 07, 2009 5:42 am ET)
                  1  
                  Why are you making a simple subject so complex? It's about the intent of the person committing the crime. If a Black person kills someone simply because they're White they'll be charged with a hate crime. Likewise, if a White person kills someone simply because they're Black they'll be charged with a hate crime. Same thing goes for gender whether you're male or female and sexual orientation whether you're gay or straight.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 4:58 pm ET)
                       
                    I'm sorry, I guess we just see this topic differently. I actually think I see it simple and you guys are making it more complex. I don't think a black guy who kills a black guy should be treated any differently than the black guy who kills the white guy. I don't care why. If they did it on purpose than I want the legal system to treat them the same.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by loonz (May 07, 2009 7:38 pm ET)
                         
                      Both crimes are treated the same way unless we find out the Black guy killed the White guy simply because of his race. Likewise, if we find out the Black guy killed the other Black guy simply because of his race.
                      Report Abuse
            • Author by mrhebert74 (May 07, 2009 6:37 pm ET)
                 
              "I know Billie Holliday quite well."

              ...but not well enough to spellcheck her name.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by smarshall1432997 (May 06, 2009 4:06 pm ET)
      2  
      It is plain and simple for what went on here:  Those Republicans who voted "NO" on the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act used as a cover Rep. Steve King's (R-IA) false amendment so they would "NOT" upset their constituents back in their districts. As usual, Sean Hannity was all too "happy" to help Rep. Steve King push his "shameless" false argument about Democrats protecting pedophilia to "distract" from the majority of Republicans "NO" votes on an important vote. Maybe, Hannity and Rep. King did "NOT" have enough time to read the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act "completely" and therefore, they did "NOT" comprehend what the Bill was stating before spewing out their false claims about the Democrats? Shameful, shameful, shameful.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 06, 2009 4:57 pm ET)
           
        Living in Iowa, I can tell you that the more you hear Steve King speak the more pathetic it gets. That guy is a nut and should not be followed by anyone.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by captfoster2 (May 06, 2009 4:15 pm ET)
         
      I would say this is pathetic on the part of FoxNoise and all the simple-minded dimwits that work there....

      But since these clowns are allowed to LEGALLY LIE I can only say...

      Typical... and quite expected!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Limit Corp. Ownership (May 06, 2009 4:47 pm ET)
         
      This is pretty disgusting even by Fake News standards...

      It's amazing our media has descended to this level. An open forum for outright smears of progressives.

      Our nation has become very degraded by this Fox News crap.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by shaggles (May 06, 2009 6:35 pm ET)
      1  
      This reminds me of the 'Obama voted to slaughter babies' bs the right still occassionally brings up. I can't make up my minds if Reps propose these kinds of amendments just so they can claim the other side is promoting pedophilia or baby killing when they get shot down or if they are just that ignorant of the laws already on the books. I suspect it's a bit of both.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by juliajayne (May 07, 2009 10:22 am ET)
           
        AA brought it up earlier in the thread just so you don't forget the stupidity.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by restoftheworld (May 06, 2009 10:13 pm ET)
      2 1
      You people need to take a good hard look at yourselves. you waste your lives debating with people who's views cannot be changed.
      If you spend your whole lives talking about Fox news, rush, beck and the rest, all you are doing is keeping them relevant.
      There is no doubt in my mind that the world outside america (yes there actually is one) is much more positive towards america since the war, oil and god loving government has been removed. Stop trying to change the minds of the ignorant because it is not going to happen. Go outside and ride a bike or kick a footy with your children, it is far more rewarding.


      Report Abuse
      • Author by susanai (May 06, 2009 10:39 pm ET)
           
        Being an Australian and living in Australia I can assure you that Fox is watched by us - but mostly as a horrible curiosity. I can not understand why sane Americans refer this network as a "news" network. Watching Fox is like watching a train wreck.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by paligap (May 06, 2009 11:45 pm ET)
        1  
        You need to take a good hard look at yourself. If you're so busy riding a bike and kicking a footy, why take the time to come here and tell others how much they're wasting their time? Why should you care what others spend their time doing, and what makes you think you can change their minds?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by restoftheworld (May 07, 2009 12:36 am ET)
            2
          Mate, you can sit in your dark little room tapping away on your keyboard for the rest of your life for all i care. It was just an observation. your empire is crumbling and you are going all lord of the flies on each other.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by benjr (May 07, 2009 1:43 am ET)
               
            I think 'Lord of the Flies' is a little bit extreme. As far as your comment "you waste your lives debating with people who's views cannot be changed", I don't believe that is the point of all these posts. No matter what, people want to be able to express their opinions. While I may not agree with some of the opinions on this thread, I still read them. If I learn something new, great. If not, well, at least it's entertaining.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 5:00 pm ET)
                 
              In America, having a different, minority, opinion and voicing it is not only allowed, but encouraged. We want open dialogue even with those we disagree with. Especially those we disagree with. That's what makes us great. Debate and dialogue is how we all find out where others and their opinions are coming from.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by ktshipp (May 07, 2009 1:00 am ET)
      1 1
      So I just read the amendment...

      From my understanding of the bill, what the democrats added was that if someone commits a crime against you because you are a pedophile, you are not protected under the hate crime statute because sexual orientation doesn't include pedophilis since it is not a consensual act.

      For the military part, the bill says that if you commit a hate crime and you are in the military, you are subject to the same laws as anyone else.

      So where is the problem? Why were the democrats wrong in excluding hate crime status towards pedophile and keeping military personel accountable. I don't get it.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (May 07, 2009 5:19 am ET)
           
        There's nothing in the hate Crimes legislation that protects pedophiles so King's amendment wasn't needed. The only reason he proposed the amendment was to smear gay people by lumping them in with pedophiles and Democrats took offense to that. Now he's going on FOX News and lying about what the bill does and smearing Democrats.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by RyanClark (May 07, 2009 1:24 am ET)
         
      It seems Fox News, and some people here, are confusing "pedophiles" with "predators" and "child molesters". Pedophiles SHOULD be protected from hate crimes because it's a sexual orientation.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by eweston8542983 (May 07, 2009 10:43 am ET)
           
        Put up some definitions to go with your labels.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by eweston8542983 (May 07, 2009 10:48 am ET)
             
          OK, I see. One of a number of sexual identities that, given real choice, the person would just as soon find pez a sexual turn on.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by mrhebert74 (May 08, 2009 1:38 pm ET)
           
        "Pedophiles SHOULD be protected from hate crimes because it's a sexual orientation."

        Not according to this law, which only protects the straight and gay sexual orientations. Instead, pedophiles will only be protected from crimes, not hate crimes.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by draleman (May 07, 2009 6:48 am ET)
      1 1
      Somewhat off-topic: Why do people use the word pedophile to exclusively refer to practicing pedophiles? Being a pedophile per se is unfortunate but far from criminal. Many of them seek treatment.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 5:05 pm ET)
           
        That is actually a very intelligent, nuanced point. However, listen to the Congressman and you may understand what we're dealing with. As soon as we can get the far right to see that there is a difference between homosexuals and sexual predators then we may take the next step of explaining nuance to these people. We'll cross that bridge as soon as they stop nominating Sarah Palins and Joe the Plumbers to represent their party.
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    • Author by joethevoter (May 07, 2009 2:54 pm ET)
         
      This is all typical Congressional stupidity, trying to gain brownie points with pointless legislation. A crime is a crime and there is no need to call it a "hate" crime if it is already illegal. Also you can't "exclude" anyone just because you don't like them including sex offenders. Assaulting them is still a crime and those assaults are almost exclusively "hate" crimes by their very nature.

      Given the government publishes the names and address for any would-be vigilante to look up, and since an assault on them is still a crime, and also considering these lists also expose innocent family members and bystanders to these assaults, it is unreasonable to exclude them from this bill.

      Every American is entitled to equal protection of the law...it's in the Constitution. But then members of congress don't really pay much attention to that document these days.

      //
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      • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 07, 2009 5:09 pm ET)
           
        Excellent points. I don't want to start a whole different argument, but I also have a HUGE issue with these people being forced to register as sexual offenders. If they are dangerous than give them the proper punishment. But, punishing them endlessly after they have served their time seems downright un-American to me. And, I will not even get into the entire senior who slept with a sophomore being a sexual offender deal that makes me want to pull what's left of my hair out.
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