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Without Obama, Barnicle and Scarborough baselessly claim, Dems "are weaker" than Republicans

May 14, 2009 6:30 pm ET

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SUMMARY: Mike Barnicle and Joe Scarborough said that -- if, inexplicably, one doesn't consider President Obama -- Democrats are "weaker than the Republicans." In fact, recent polling on favorable/approval ratings of members of Congress show congressional Democrats with higher favorable/approval ratings than congressional Republicans.

42 Comments

During the May 14 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, political analyst Mike Barnicle stated that the Democrats, without President Obama, are "weaker than the Republicans." Host Joe Scarborough agreed, saying, "They are weaker than the Republican Party, but ... [t]here's a superstar of a politician running their party." However, according to PollingReport.com, which compiles survey data from national polling organizations, congressional Democrats have higher favorable/approval ratings and lower unfavorable/disapproval ratings than congressional Republicans in every recent survey conducted by Daily Kos/Research 2000, Quinnipiac University, ABC News/Washington Post, Fox News/Opinion Dynamics, USA Today/Gallup, and CBS News.

Moreover, CNN/Opinion Research Corporation and Pew Research Center polls, which ask about approval of congressional Democratic and Republican "leaders," show that congressional Democratic leaders have higher approval and lower disapproval ratings than Republican leaders. Also, recent Daily Kos/Research 2000 and Newsweek polls show that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) received higher approval ratings than House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) and that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) received equal or higher approval ratings than Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).

From the May 14 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:

SCARBOROUGH: Everybody always talks about how weak the Republican Party is -- take Barack Obama away from the Democratic Party and who do you have? Nancy Pelosi --

BRZEZINSKI: Right.

SCARBOROUGH: -- Harry Reid, Henry Waxman, Barney Frank.

BARNICLE: They're weaker.

BRZEZINSKI: Good point.

SCARBOROUGH: They are --

BARNICLE: They're weaker than the Republicans without the president.

SCARBOROUGH: -- weaker than the Republican Party, but they have got --

BRZEZINSKI: A good leader.

SCARBOROUGH: There's a superstar of a politician running their party.

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    • Author by southerngal (May 14, 2009 6:34 pm ET)
        8
      They are absolutely right. Obama is the star, not one other Democrat even comes close. Do you honestly think the public has any love for Pelosi and Reid? They are Washington lifers, politicians in every sense of the word. They engender no affection from anyone outside of hardline Democrats, and MMfA. Don't dilute yourself. Congress altogether is unpopular, always will be as a body of government. They are too easy to blame for everyone, rightly or wrongly.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by tapley (May 14, 2009 8:52 pm ET)
        3  
        What about Hillary?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by BillJ-MN (May 14, 2009 9:56 pm ET)
        7  
        I disagree. Take Obama out of the picture and put Hillary Clinton in the White House and I see the Democrats being every bit as strong as they are now.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (May 14, 2009 10:26 pm ET)
        6  
        No they arent right. The GOP brand is flat out more unpopular than the Dem brand. Dems are in a better electoral position than the GOP period.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 15, 2009 8:02 am ET)
        5  
        And you think that McCain would have beaten Hillary Clinton? (If so, let me know who you think will win the next Super Bowl, so I can bet against you!)

        "The public" has NOT had "enough" of Reid and Pelosi. The RIGHT has had enough of them, and they've undergone a several year long media campaign to smear them and misinform the public. Every single issue the Rigt complains about with them has turned out to be total BS. What's more, they liberals that criticise them do so because we're sick of how ofen they cave in for the Republicans!

        So try preaching that stuff to the choir. We're not singing that tune over here!
        Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (May 15, 2009 10:25 am ET)
        1  
        And the Pantheon of Republican Stars includes.......?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 15, 2009 10:55 am ET)
          2  
          Talk Show Hosts, Beauty Pageant Winners, a Plumber and a bunch of Poltical Hacks half of which are about to lose their jobs. Did I forget anyone?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mjh (May 17, 2009 3:17 pm ET)
               
            "Did I forget anyone?"


            Sexual harassers {Bill"loofah" O'Reilly, David "diapers" Vitter, Mark "I text pages" Foley, Larry "wide stance" Craig, etc.}

            Report Abuse
        • Author by cmiller442 (May 15, 2009 1:46 pm ET)
             
          Touché!
          Report Abuse
      • Author by Conchobhar (May 15, 2009 1:26 pm ET)
        1  
        And just how would I "dilute" myself? Too much coffee? I'm too old for Koolaid.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by dmhack (May 15, 2009 8:31 pm ET)
           
        You're absolutely correct Right On.
        Just look at the amazing faces the Republican can trot out---a bitter lying former VP, a washed up former speaker, a druggie loon, a cadre of TV twits, a not ready for prime time Governor along with a past her time Governor, a bushel of teabagging opportunists, a 9/11 ranting ex-mayor and just for good measure... another Bush.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by mjh (May 17, 2009 3:24 pm ET)
           
        "They are Washington lifers, politicians in every sense of the word. They engender no affection from anyone outside of hardline Democrats, and MMfA." - wrong OFF


        "They engender no affection from anyone outside of hardline Democrats"

        Yeah . . . that MUST explain why NO incumbent Dem lost a congressional seat -- and NO GOP up for reelection won -- in the '06 midterms . . .

        Report Abuse
    • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 14, 2009 6:44 pm ET)
      4  
      And who do the Republicans have? Palin? Boehner? McCain? Which Republicans are stronger in the eyes of the public than Pelosi and Reid? I am not saying Pelosi and Reid are super strong, but who is stronger in your minds?

      Plus, this analogy stinks. That's like saying without Lebron James, the Cavs are weaker than the Hawks. That might be true, but Lebron James is still there. LIkewise, Obama is on the team, so you have to contend with him, the superstar.

      And lastly, Right On, don't worry about any of us "diluting" ourselves, some of us might be delusional, but we won't be watered down ;).
      Report Abuse
      • Author by southerngal (May 14, 2009 6:52 pm ET)
          5
        Probably no Republicans, but the point is other than Obama, there is no star in the Democratic leadership that I can see, can you? It's like comparing zero to minus one.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 14, 2009 6:55 pm ET)
          3  
          These guys are saying that -1 is greater than zero (to use your analogy), even you disagree with them, right? Look, I am not saying that there are a lot of Dems with widespread appeal, just that they aren't weaker than the Republicans, even without Obama, just like you think.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (May 15, 2009 11:00 am ET)
          4  
          Um... Just becuase there's no one YOU would vote for, doesn't mean that there's NO ONE at all. Hillary Clinton, for example? I could name others but what's the point? You'd dismiss them because they aren't people YOU would support. OTOH... You freely admit that they're are any republican's you'd support either! So either you're (1) apolitical (2) going the 3rd party route (good luck with that!) or (3) admitting the incompetence of republican's and yet identifying yourself with them by your attempts to paint the democrats as "just as bad." They're not. They took back congree two years ago and added to their majority last year. The took back the majority of the Governorships. And they've won the popular vote in 4 fo the last 5 presidential elections. (Imagine that: The Republican have only won the popular vote for the presidency ONCE in the last TWENTY YEARS!!!) The GOP has nothing but outdated "values," tired and failed ideas and old white men.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Harl Delos (May 14, 2009 11:29 pm ET)
         
      The GOP is in complete disarray, and as in the days of Will Rogers, the Democrats are not an organized political party. Support for Obama is strong, among traditional Republicans as well as traditional Democrats. Nobody else on the national scene is very promising at all.

      Oh, there's Colin Powell and Tom Ridge, both of whom have wives who want to keep their husbands out of politics. And if I thought about it for a couple of weeks, I might think of a equally promising Democrat.

      But Ron Paul's son appeared tonight on Rachel Maddow. He's as cute as a four-year-old, seems to be pleasant enough, and he's proposing a formula for the GOP that looks like a winner: combine the respect for the individual that the Democrats sorta plays at, with the respect for the individual who is engaged in business that the GOP sorta plays at, only be serious about both.

      Ron Paul comes across as a wacko, and as a racist - but his son does not. He's trying for the Kentucky Senate in 2010 as a Republican, but if the GOP remains in disarray, I could see them coalescing around the younger Paul as their own Messiah, running him for the White House in 2012. Jettison all the optional stuff, just concentrate on the Bill of Rights, and respect for the individual. Sounds like a plan.

      In the last month, Joe Scarborough has started sounding more like a human being, and less like a GOP talking-points-bot. You know, the GOP used to be a party worthy of respect, back when Ike was in office. It's be nice to see them rehabilitate themselves. And maybe, miracle of miracles, the Democrats might rehabilitate themselves, too.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (May 15, 2009 1:34 pm ET)
           
        A month ago I might have agreed with you about Scarborough, but he's been spouting GOP talking points with abandon these last couple of weeks, especially about Waterboarding.

        I'd like to see the Republicans swing more toward Libertarianism, myself. I might even be persuaded to vote for them once in a while. However, unless they can unload the Evangelical nutbags that make up the majority of their base, it'll never happen.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 17, 2009 12:42 am ET)
           
        Ron Paul is a punchline to the GOP joke. A Libertarian who doesn'r believe in personal liberty.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by the skepticalcynic1116 (May 15, 2009 12:29 am ET)
        2
      RE: "Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) received equal or higher approval ratings than Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY)."

      This comparison so s dumbfoundingly inane.

      This is like saying, Hey, this dung heap (Reid)does not stink any worse that this rotting carcass (McConnell).The dung heap might even have fewer maggots.

      One could apply this same analogy to Barnicle and Scarborough, MSNBC's Twittle Dumb and Twittle Dumber
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 17, 2009 12:44 am ET)
           
        This comparison so s dumbfoundingly inane.
        Really? Comparing two people who hold the same jobs in their respective parties? I'll bet you think comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges is inane, also.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by LisaLV711 (May 15, 2009 12:36 am ET)
      2  
      Yeah, Joe and you got...ahhh what's her name? The one that can see Russia from her house and waves at Putin when he flies over Alaska. Hey, that's a winner. Please people, find another subject. You really have dumbed this one out. Your jokes aren't funny anymore. Even Joe the Plumber has defected. Please.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Vasagi (May 15, 2009 8:37 am ET)
      2  
      It's unanimous! Republicans polled by Fox News agree: Republicans are way cool! RAWK!! <headbang>
      Report Abuse
    • Author by DAWUSS (May 15, 2009 10:37 am ET)
         
      And don't forget - Republicans are better at voting ;)
      Report Abuse
    • Author by shaggles (May 15, 2009 10:59 am ET)
      1  
      That argument could certainly be made but they aren't making it. They're just stating it as fact with no supporting evidence.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by roundhouse (May 15, 2009 11:00 am ET)
         
      I hate to admit it but these jokers have a point. Too many Democrats are being pu**ies when it comes to taking on the Republicans. Too many Democrats do not respond to Republican attacks and too few Democrats go on the offensive.

      They are weak.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Brabantio (May 15, 2009 3:52 pm ET)
           
        I thought they were talking in terms of political capital and popularity, not backbone. As far as assertiveness/aggressiveness goes, I don't think there's any question that Republicans dominate heavily.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bilbo_dies (May 15, 2009 7:51 pm ET)
           
        Some may be but; Dems should never fall into the trap of acting like the Republicans. Call them out about miss truths, etc but; do it cleanly without relying on slinging mud, etc. I know myself and a lot of other people are really sick of that style of "debate".
        Tell me how you feel, back it up with facts, and then lets debate.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by skiploader1111 (May 15, 2009 11:10 am ET)
      1  
      Take away conservatism from the Republican Party and you have a much, much stronger party.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (May 15, 2009 11:14 am ET)
         
      Must have been looking at a rassumussen pole. I don't think most poles support Joe. I wonder how the blue dog Dems pole versis the rest of them. Given Washinton's two Demoncratic Senators recent vote to frustrate credit card customers, I'm not very happy with them currently. I'd support a good Domocratic challenger against either of them right now. I'd be surprised to support a Republican for this position, given the state of the R's, but I'm not going to say it'd never happen.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by the grand vizier (May 15, 2009 12:19 pm ET)
        2
      Let's just agree on a couple of basic facts: both major parties are infested with self serving, incompetent, lying jerks. The Dems were pussies during the Bush years while the GOP, like lemmings, ran the country over a cliff.
      I believe that many Democrats knew about torture, knew about the lies that led to the Iraq War, knew about the excesses in the financial industry that led to the meltdown, etc. Both parties S**K.
      Over the years I have changed from opposed term limits to now being in favor of them and the reason is simple. The political system, by its very nature, attracts many of the worst people in society. They are power hungry, greedy and lacking in honesty and/or integrity. The longer they are in power, the more corrupted they become. I have experienced these people myself in local politics, so imagine how bad it is at the national level; the major leagues, so to speak, of crap.
      This county is in a mess right now, and while I blame the Republicans much more than the Democrats, both have blood on their hands.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Conchobhar (May 15, 2009 1:33 pm ET)
        1  
        Sad but true. Republicans have no conscience, Democrats have no guts.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by mrhebert74 (May 15, 2009 4:35 pm ET)
        3  
        shorter grand vizier:

        "Let's agree on some facts. (I will now present opinions, metaphors, and my own beliefs in lieu of facts.) Since it's obvious that Republicans stink, let's run 'both parties stink' up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes. I would like to change the constitution so that Americans can't have the representatives they would prefer to elect. This is based on my personal opinions of local government, which are clearly the truth about national government. Again, I've given up on defending Republicans, so please believe me when I say Democrats are almost as bad."
        Report Abuse
    • Author by latanza (May 15, 2009 1:47 pm ET)
        1
      In a sense, this is true. The Republicans are hardened and sympathy is not a virtue that has value with this party. The Republican thinks and makes decisions based on abstractness and not emotions. The Dem's will be wise to meet them half way, especially on matters of security. The Repubicans have a way with barbarianism and emotionless governing... True. This is an asset if you look at it. Think of it as an ant colony, each group has a designated role and it works out for the antlings. :)
      Report Abuse
    • Author by tonyrich300 (May 15, 2009 4:12 pm ET)
         
      When is MSNBC going to get rid of this right wing talking point spewer called Joe Scarborough.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mrhebert74 (May 15, 2009 7:03 pm ET)
           
        You know, it wouldn't be so bad if he was just right-wing, or even if he spewed right-wing talking points. What's really lame is his glibly cavalier attitude toward the relative importance of objective facts and demonstrable falsehoods.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by lesterayers5936 (May 15, 2009 10:30 pm ET)
           
        i have emailed phil griffin,steve capus with no response they must think that fox is doing a better job so they need joe scarbough mike barnacle,mika witch is sounding more like joe every day.joe said last week that he loves chaney that is why he keeps beating the drum on torture .joe does not care about the truth just as long as chaney gets off scott free that is why he keeps throwing Nancy under the bus so the republicans can shift blame on the democrats.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by ewl94232 (May 15, 2009 6:52 pm ET)
        3
      Just another lying scumbag I guess! Wait a minute ... he's one of your guys! So what he said MUST be true!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by eweston8542983 (May 15, 2009 7:58 pm ET)
        3  
        Anther awesome display. What kind of pretzel logic do you call it anyway?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 17, 2009 12:49 am ET)
           
        Just another lying scumbag
        A hint for you: Usually, when you sign your posts, the signature should be at the end, not the beginning.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by bilbo_dies (May 15, 2009 7:48 pm ET)
      1  
      I think this whole "Dems are weaker that Repugs" is just another media talking point. It isn't based on any data but; if you keep repeating it enough, people will start to believe it. (they hope)
      Report Abuse
    • Author by tonyrich300 (May 16, 2009 12:56 pm ET)
         
      When is MSNBC going to get rid of Joe Scarborough? Do we have to start a campaign to get rid of him? We need MSNBC to be MSNBC all day and have a progressive voice driving the discussion.
      Report Abuse

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