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Media uncritically repeat claim that New Haven firefighters case shows Sotomayor is an activist

May 26, 2009 7:54 pm ET

SUMMARY: The media have echoed conservatives' claim that Sonia Sotomayor's position in Ricci v. DeStefano shows that she is an "activist" judge. In fact, Sotomayor agreed with four of her 2nd Circuit colleagues that precedent compelled the decision in the case.

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In the wake of Sonia Sotomayor's nomination as a Supreme Court justice, media have echoed conservatives' claim that her position in the New Haven firefighters case, Ricci v. DeStefano, shows that she is an "activist" judge. For example, Keith Perine wrote in a May 26 Congressional Quarterly Today article that Judicial Confirmation Network counsel Wendy Long said Sotomayor "has an extremely high rate of her decisions being reversed, indicating that she is far more of a liberal activist than even the current liberal activist Supreme Court." Perine then reported that Long "pointed to Sotomayor's participation in a 2nd Circuit discrimination case, Ricci v. DeStefano, in which a group of white New Haven, Conn., firefighters alleged they were unfairly denied promotions." In fact, Sotomayor agreed with four of her 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals colleagues that precedent compelled the decision in the case. Moreover, contrary to Long's suggestion that Sotomayor's decision shows that she is "far more of a liberal activist than even the current liberal activist Supreme Court," Justice David Souter -- whom Sotomayor would replace -- made comments during oral argument that were supportive of the position taken by the 2nd Circuit in the case, asking counsel for the firefighters: "Why isn't the most reasonable reading of this set of facts a reading which is consistent with giving the city an opportunity, assuming good faith, to start again? ... [I]sn't that the only way to avoid the damned if you do, damned if you don't situation?"

As Perine noted, "Sotomayor joined an opinion by a three-judge 2nd Circuit panel that rejected the firefighters' lawsuit. The Supreme Court now is weighing the case." But contrary to conservatives' claims that the panel decision shows that Sotomayor is an "activist," she joined a fellow circuit judge's opinion citing 2nd Circuit precedent it said was controlling authority. In that opinion, Judge Barrington Parker wrote (accessed from the Lexis database, emphases added):

At the heart of the dissent from the denial of rehearing en banc is the assertion that there was no Supreme Court or circuit law to guide this district court, or future district courts faced with similar claims. I disagree. The district court correctly observed that this case was unusual. Nonetheless, the district court also recognized that there was controlling authority in our decisions--among them, Hayden v. County of Nassau, 180 F.3d 42 (2d Cir. 1999) and Bushey v. N.Y. State Civil Serv. Comm'n, 733 F.2d 220 (2d Cir. 1984), cert. denied, 469 U.S. 1117, 105 S. Ct. 803, 83 L. Ed. 2d 795 (1985). These cases clearly establish for the circuit that a public employer, faced with a prima facie case of disparate-impact liability under Title VII, does not violate Title VII or the Equal Protection Clause by taking facially neutral, albeit race-conscious, actions to avoid such liability.

Insofar as the dissent suggests that the plaintiffs produced evidence of a racial classification or the imposition of a quota, I think it entirely mistaken. Although the City acted out of a concern that certifying the exam results would have an adverse impact on minority candidates--and although, as the panel noted in its decision, the result was understandably frustrating for applicants who passed the test--the City's response, to decline to certify any of the exams, was facially race-neutral. The City did not classify or confer any actual benefit on applicants on the basis of race. The dissent's citations to Adarand Constructors, Inc. v. Pena, 515 U.S. 200, 115 S. Ct. 2097, 132 L. Ed. 2d 158 (1995), and City of Richmond v. J.A. Croson Co., 488 U.S. 469, 109 S. Ct. 706, 102 L. Ed. 2d 854 (1989), are therefore inapposite. See Hayden, 180 F.3d at 49 (distinguishing those cases as "concerned with select affirmative action tools, such as quota systems, set-aside programs, and differential scoring cutoffs, which utilize express racial classifications and which prevent non-minorities from competing for specific slots or contracts.").

Because there was no racial classification, the plaintiffs bore the burden of persuasion on the issue of discriminatory purpose. Jana-Rock Constr., Inc. v. N.Y. State Dep't of Econ. Dev., 438 F.3d 195, 204 (2d Cir. 2006). Here, however, there was no evidence of a discriminatory purpose; according to the record evidence, the City was motivated by a desire to comply with, and avoid liability under, Title VII and its implementing regulations. See Bushey, 733 F.2d at 226 ("It is settled that voluntary compliance is a preferred means of achieving Title VII's goal of eliminating employment discrimination." (internal quotation marks and alteration omitted)); see also Hayden, 180 F.3d at 51 ("A desire to reduce the adverse impact on [minority] applicants ... is not analogous to an intent to discriminate against non-minority candidates.").

[...]

Moreover, I hardly think that in order to decline to certify the exam results, the City was required to prove, through a validation study or some other means, that its own tests were not "job related for the position in question and consistent with business necessity," 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-2(k)(1)(A)(i) (defining affirmative defense to prima facie case of disparate impact violation). In fact, our case law explicitly rejects that proposition. See Bushey, 733 F.2d at 226 (disagreeing with the assertion that "before adopting remedial measures" the employer must "prove that [the] prima face case [of a disparate-impact Title VII violation] was not rebuttable through job-related explanations").

[...]

The plaintiffs were entitled to a careful and thoughtful review of their claims. The panel decided that the district court had given them just that, and thus adopted the district court's reasoning in its per curiam opinion. Nothing more is required.

Moreover, Sotomayor's decision in the case does not place her out of the mainstream established by the current liberal Supreme Court justices. In fact, at the April 22 oral argument in the case, Souter asked questions of the firefighters' counsel that reflected understanding of the situation faced by the city of New Haven:

JUSTICE SOUTER: The problem, Mr. Coleman, is that -- that the cases you are relying on, it seems to me, are cases in which ultimately what is being judged is a different result in the -- at the end point of the process which was starting. And the problem that I have with -- with using cases like that and -- and essentially the problem I -- I have with your argument is that it leaves a -- a municipality or a governmental body like New Haven in a -- in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Because on -- on the very assumptions that you are making, if they go forward with -- with their -- their hiring plan, they certify the results and go forward with it, they are inevitably facing a disparate impact lawsuit.

If they stop and say, wait a minute, we're starting down the road toward a disparate impact lawsuit and, indeed, there may be something wrong here, they are inevitably facing a disparate treatment suit. And whatever Congress wanted to attain, it couldn't have wanted to attain that kind of a situation.

Why isn't the most reasonable reading of this set of facts a reading which is consistent with giving the city an opportunity, assuming good faith, to start again? And I -- I recognize there's got to be a good faith condition, and the -- the good faith can always be attacked. But isn't that the only way to avoid the damned if you do, damned if you don't situation?

MR. COLEMAN: No, I completely disagree with that, Justice Souter. It not simply a matter of good faith. The use of race in government is so -- the Court has been so -

JUSTICE SOUTER: But you make no distinction between race as an animating discriminating object on the one hand and race consciousness on the other. There is no way to deal with a situation like this any more than there is a way to deal with -- with setting lines in voting districts --

MR. COLEMAN: I also --

JUSTICE SOUTER: -- without pervasive race consciousness. That is not unconstitutional, and it seems to me that you are not observing that distinction in -- in your reply.

From Perine's May 26 Congressional Quarterly Today article:

Conservative activists wasted little time in assailing Sotomayor's record.

Wendy E. Long, counsel to the Judicial Confirmation Network, said Sotomayor "has an extremely high rate of her decisions being reversed, indicating that she is far more of a liberal activist than even the current liberal activist Supreme Court."

Long pointed to Sotomayor's participation in a 2nd Circuit discrimination case, Ricci v. DeStefano, in which a group of white New Haven, Conn., firefighters alleged they were unfairly denied promotions. Sotomayor joined an opinion by a three-judge 2nd Circuit panel that rejected the firefighters' lawsuit. The Supreme Court now is weighing the case.

Charmaine Yoest, the president of Americans United for Life, said Sotomayor is a "radical pick that divides America."

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    • Author by solon (May 26, 2009 8:00 pm ET)
      3 1
      the current liberal activist Supreme Court.

      IS that a JOKE?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by magnolialover (May 26, 2009 8:54 pm ET)
        3  
        I would hope so, but I doubt it. And again, if you're talking about activist jurists, then Thomas is your man, he leads the way.

        I have a feeling we'll not hear the end of this BS until she is confirmed. The onslaught will continue, and all of the conservatives who were crying about the "harsh" treatment that Alito and Roberts got will have to eat those words. I think since this morning, I've seen more crap slung towards this woman than either of those guys for the entire course of their nomination and confirmation period.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by fairliberal (May 26, 2009 9:47 pm ET)
          1 8
          Well with her racist remarks and her acknowledgement of her policy making from the bench, she deserves more critcism. Of course you call it crap because it is being directed towards a lib.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (May 26, 2009 10:08 pm ET)
            3 1
            Is IS crap she didnt make a racist remark no matter what you were TOLD to believe. It is axiomatic that having experience with race and gender issues would help make better decisions about race and gender issues in general. I would tell you to try to keep up but its a lost cause
            Report Abuse
            • Author by pbjam (May 26, 2009 11:35 pm ET)
              1 6
              Are you saying white and male isn't a race or gender? Speaking of lost cause, find a mirror!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by LuvLuLu (May 27, 2009 11:59 am ET)
                2  
                White and male is not a historically disadvantaged class of humans. Women and people of color have been discriminated against.

                Race and gender "issues" means discrimination.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Stargnoc (May 27, 2009 10:07 pm ET)
                     
                  Whites and men are discriminated against every day, don't be ignorant.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by open_mind (May 28, 2009 12:09 am ET)
                     
                  I don't see how you can make such a statement like that. After all, nearly four percent of the nominees have not been white males. I call that pretty darn fair.

                  ;)
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by Floyd (May 27, 2009 9:09 am ET)
                5
              You mean like her decision to not allow white firefighters to advance even though they scored higher on the advancement tests than anyone else? In essence saying that even if a different race is not smart/talented enough they should be put at the front of the line over more qualified people? Yeah, I guess she does have race experience, if you count that.
              Personally, I would prefer the better firefighter be promoted. Not the ones who are inferior to their peers and are promoted based on race alone. Who would YOU like to have trying to save your house/life? The more qualified firefighter or the one who is there because there is a quota to fill?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by LuvLuLu (May 27, 2009 12:04 pm ET)
                2  
                It was not her decision to not allow white firefighters to advance. She agreed to let the city's decision stand.

                It's ridiculous to assert that there are no good people of color who could pass a fair test to be a firefighter in New Haven, but that's what the results of that test showed. Therefore there was a problem with the testing process itself.

                If people of color hadn't been disadvantaged for generations, then yeah, I would agree that we should be color blind. Until that day comes, we have to help the disadvantaged class.

                We want a qualified firefighter. We don't have to have only the people who test highest on a test to get qualified firefighters. Our society will benefit MORE by having a diverse leadership crew than by having only white people who tested highly.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Floyd (May 27, 2009 12:19 pm ET)
                  2  
                  And if the testing is changed to create a more fair environment resulting is more exact interpretation of who is qualified and whites continue to excell are you demanding that less qualified firefighters be promoted simply because you want diversity?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mary59 (May 27, 2009 3:52 pm ET)
                       
                    Fair question.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Brabantio (May 27, 2009 4:15 pm ET)
                      1 1
                      Of course, if a fair environment exists and white people continue to excel, that would mean that white people are naturally superior. If one doesn't believe that, the question is moot.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Floyd (May 28, 2009 9:28 am ET)
                           
                        Well, there you go. The testing is fair but some cannot perform well enough to get promoted. So, they got to think of another way to promote less qualified employees. That's the American way isn't it? advance the under qualified and blame the white man for all and every roadblock of achievement.
                        Perhaps those who did't perform well in testing should have developed better study habits while in school. School is there to teach not to socialize and party.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Brabantio (May 28, 2009 1:18 pm ET)
                             
                          I didn't say the testing was fair. That's your assumption.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Floyd (May 28, 2009 7:06 pm ET)
                               
                            Well it seems that it was fair up until they wanted more minorities to be promoted, then all of a sudden it was unfair. Uhhh, yeah it was fair. But, now they want to promote using race as the only factor (instead of qualifications). If it was unfair, where were the constant complaints about the unfairness of the testing? Can you provide any evidence of complaints?
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Brabantio (May 29, 2009 9:23 am ET)
                                 
                              Are you arguing that because white people didn't complain about the unfairness of the test that it was fair to people of all races? That would seem to be what you're saying.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Floyd (May 29, 2009 11:43 am ET)
                                   
                                No, what I'm saying is that since minorities didn't complain about the testing before (2003?) that is was fair before, but suddenly not fair now. If you have evidence of previous complaints then I could back down from that position. Otherwise, that would be a logical conclusion, don't you think?
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by Brabantio (May 29, 2009 1:42 pm ET)
                                    1
                                  That doesn't necessarily follow, because you don't know what the racial breakdown of the candidates was before. If there are only two minority candidates out of thirty, and neither of them qualify, that doesn't send up a red flag as much as thirty-four out of seventy-seven not qualifying. You also have to bear in mind that if there is discrimination at hand, it's very risky for minorities to cry foul over it, since it could cost them the jobs they have already.

                                  Read the post by Pearlene below.
                                  Report Abuse
              • Author by creeksneakers2 (May 27, 2009 2:04 pm ET)
                1  
                There's an interesting contradiction in conservatism here. Conservatives claim that judges ought to only be influenced by the law alone, and that any abstract idea, like fairness, that a judge may hold should not be considered. Only the law. (Liberals also share this view)

                Conservatives also often complain that civil rights laws are biased against white people.

                So if judges follow the law by the letter, and the law is unfair to white people, doesn't it stand to reason that a good judge will come up with decisions that conservatives consider unfair to whites?

                I've been reading the case, Ricci v Stephano and its very interesting. There is strong legal reasoning and precedent on both sides. The district court and the appellate judges who heard the case directly all agreed with Sotomayor. I suggest you read the case. You'd find that Sotomayor's conclusions were based on logically valid interpretations of the law and not on some racial preference on her part.

                I think its racist to believe that a minority's decisions must be based on race, without even reading the case or knowing all the issues. Negative prejudgements are the definition of racism.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 27, 2009 6:02 pm ET)
                   
                Please learn about the judicial system and what a judge's rulings mean before making such an absurd statement. You make a fool out of yourself.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by mikehuck1976 (May 27, 2009 6:04 pm ET)
                     
                  That was directed at, Floyd. Your comments are absolutely correct and creek.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (May 28, 2009 7:42 pm ET)
                1 1
                You mean like her decision to not allow white firefighters to advance even though they scored higher on the advancement tests than anyone else?

                If the New Haven case was as simple as you've made it , you might have a point. But the case is vastly different than simply not choosing to promote white firefighters.


                In 2003, the city of New Haven sought to fill captain and lieutenant vacancies in the fire department by administering written and oral promotional exams to incumbent firefighters. The city administered the captain exam to 41 incumbent firefighters, including 25 white firefighters, 8 African-American firefighters, and 8 Hispanic firefighters. Based on the test results, no African-Americans and at most two Hispanics would be eligible for promotion to captain.

                The lieutenant promotional exam resulted in a similarly stark disparate impact. The city administered the lieutenant exam to 77 incumbent firefighters, including 43 white firefighters, 19 African-American firefighters, and 15 Hispanic firefighters. Based on the test results, no minorities would be eligible for promotion to lieutenant.

                Due to concerns that the promotional exams discriminated on the basis of race in violation of the law, the city held public hearings on the issue of whether to certify the test results. The city considered whether the exams were sufficiently related to the positions in question. Several New Haven firefighters testified that some of the questions were not relevant to the knowledge or skills necessary for the positions. The city also heard evidence as to whether fairer, more effective tests were available. Testing experts testified that other types of exams would not be expected to result in such a stark disparate impact. Testing experts also opined that alternative testing procedures could better identify the best potential supervisors for the fire department. These experts testified that “assessment center processes” and “situation judgment tests” can provide better alternatives to traditional written and oral tests. Ultimately, the city declined to certify the test results and sought to explore less discriminatory alternatives to the exams that were administered in 2003.


                New Haven decided to NOT make ANY promotions based on a flawed test.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by magnolialover (May 26, 2009 10:38 pm ET)
            3  
            And I ask again, which racist remark? Is this sort of like the Rev Wright racist remarks? You know, the ones that weren't, well, racist?

            Keep on with your keeping on, it's just laughable. For the record, I didn't agree with Alito, or Roberts, but I thought that they had more than the proper requirements to be Supreme Court Justices, and Bush got to make his choices, since, he won. Now, as we know, elections have consequences.

            Put up, or shut up. What racist remarks? There aren't any, you're just making that up, just like everyone else.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by NL207 (May 27, 2009 12:45 am ET)
              1 4
              Try this:

              "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life"

              Right out of Sotomayor's own mouth.
              If this is not basing her credentials on her gender and race, I don't know what is.

              This woman belongs on no bench, much less the Supreme Court.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Real Straight Talk (May 27, 2009 3:25 am ET)
                4 1
                Her comment was not about her race, but about the richness of her experience.

                It is this lack of experience that led the white guys on the Supreme Court to issue 200 years worth of wrong race decisions that gave actual racists the right to own, buy,sell and lynch blacks and deprive them of their civil rights, from the day the nation was founded until well after Brown v Board of Education. This is why diversity on the court is important, so you don't just get white guy decisions. If there were blacks on the court in 1799, they would have used their experience to save this country from its racist beginnings. But at the time,only white guy experiences counted, and they were WRONG!

                White guy courts look at the New Haven case from a white guy perspective. "We was wronged." They ignore the entire history firefighting in America as a white guys job until only 30 years ago. They ignore the fact that 100 years of government sanctioned racist policies deprived minorities of the right to rise equally in a department.

                White guy logic assumes the test must be fair. A richness of experience with unfairness that minorities tend to share questions the assumption and asks, why would a test favor whites over blacks in an industry that has spent 100 years finding ways to favor whites over blacks? Doesn't mean the test is wrong, but it requires the testers to prove they were right.

                For decades police and fire tests were filled with questions not relevant to the job to keep minorities out. This probably means nothing to Roberts and Alito, or the Republican party that wants to pretend this country wasn't founded on the concept of white superiority. But it is true, and I believe it is proper to have people on the court who have experienced the sting of white guy logic, and make them prove their positions really do make sense.

                Otherwise, you get a woman who's been underpaid for 20 years denied justice because of an illogical deadline likely invented to protect those who underpaid her. Put Sotomayor on the court, and she can bring some passion to the argument for the people who tend to get run over in the court by judges who have their noses stuck so high up in the air, they don't see the people who's rights they trample. Yes I mean you, Mr Genius Scalia.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Floyd (May 27, 2009 9:40 am ET)
                  1 5
                  real straight talk; If there were blacks on the court in 1799, they would have used their experience to save this country from its racist beginnings.

                  Using the main point you are making then if there were black judges back then, they would have made decisions based on what was best for blacks only. Are you saying that only whites are racist and blacks could never be racist? Or are you saying that whites are not capable of making fair decisions? Which is racist by itself.
                  If you put Sotomayor on the court, I don't want "passion" in the arguements! I want law to be interpreted. I don't want law decided simply on whether it is popular at that moment or not. If we get that, then we regress back to what you complained about from 200 years ago. Is that what you want?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by LuvLuLu (May 27, 2009 12:09 pm ET)
                    1 2
                    No, 100% wrong. Not what is best for blacks only.

                    That's what whites did. That's what bigots are advocating for the white firefighters want right now - only what is best for them, not what is best for society.

                    The best thing for society is to have people of color in leadership positions in the firefighting dept in New Haven. There are plenty of qualified people who took that test who were not among the top scorers. That test put colored people at too great of a disadvantage for society at large.

                    It's the white men who want to keep things as they were (as conservatives don't like change either).
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Floyd (May 27, 2009 12:16 pm ET)
                      2 1
                      If they simplify the test (or use a different qualifier) so more minorities can excell and whites still perform at a higher level, are you saying that underqualified firefighters should be hired simply because they are of a minority? Or do you want the most qualified firefighters irregardless of race/gender/religion? Would society be better off with less qualified firefighters performing in that position? What if your house is on fire--- do you want a diverse group fighting the fire or the most qualified?
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by Stargnoc (May 27, 2009 10:13 pm ET)
                  2 2
                  It's racist and bigoted to assume that because I'm a white male that I can't make rational, just decisions. Race should not be a factor. "White guy logic"? Nice.

                  Affirmative action and reverse discrimination are not the way of progress. We'll see that as the years go by and I hope that Sotomayor wises up to that fact.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Brabantio (May 27, 2009 5:00 am ET)
                4  
                John Yoo:"As his memoir shows, Justice Thomas's views were forged in the crucible of a truly authentic American story. This is a black man with a much greater range of personal experience than most of the upper-class liberals who take potshots at him. A man like this on the Court is the very definition of the healthy diversity his detractors pretend to support."

                Is that basing credentials on race?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by polderjongetje (May 27, 2009 7:09 am ET)
                2  
                Without relying on the entire context of the speech, even the quote itself does not suggest racism. She starts the sentence with "I would hope ...".

                She did not say "I believe ..." or "I think ...". She said "I would hope ...".

                Since when is rooting for more diversity on the benches of the courts - to mirror the make up of society - considered racism?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by solon (May 27, 2009 7:31 am ET)
                  2  
                  Not to mention that the context of the quote is specifically about gender and race cases.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (May 27, 2009 11:31 am ET)
                1  
                Since when is "Latina" a race?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by magnolialover (May 27, 2009 12:10 pm ET)
                1  
                And just like everyone else hyperventilating about this one comment, you fail to put it into its correct context, as in, she was speaking about racial discrimination, and how white males probably don't have the experience in that particular field.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (May 27, 2009 1:15 pm ET)
                  1  
                  And just to magnify, a little bit more, how recklessly those "thoughtful racist" types bite on this type of propaganda, consider if Sotomayor had expressed an opposite sentiment;

                  Something like, " I would hope that, because of my life history,I would make worse decisions in cases related to discrimination issues than a white male would."

                  Now that would be cause for concern in my mind, a nominee who believed that she was not qualified solely because of her personal experience.

                  The media are trying very hard to frame this as a justice being appointed for no other reason than her race and sex,and the average mainstream media consumer probably doesn't need any more than that.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Stargnoc (May 27, 2009 10:15 pm ET)
                  1 1
                  White males are discriminated against every day.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Brabantio (May 28, 2009 1:14 pm ET)
                    1  
                    No, they aren't. The only possible way you can assert that is by claiming discrimination because of affirmative action. But if the population is 12% black, for instance, and your company has less of a percentage of its employees than that as black, then what's the objection to keeping it in proportion? The only one I can think of is the idea that they lack the same aptitude/intelligence as white people.

                    Is that where you want to go?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by jayhammers (May 28, 2009 9:18 pm ET)
                         
                      Read up on the men's rights movement and then tell me that men aren't discriminated against.

                      "The only one I can think of is the idea that they lack the same aptitude/intelligence as white people." That only shows your lack of understanding of the societal pressures that account for such imbalances. Affirmative action is racist. Equal opportunity is another matter. Feel free to become enlightened: http://jayhammers.blogspot.com/2009/05/on-affirmative-action-why-its-wrong-and.html
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Brabantio (May 29, 2009 9:45 am ET)
                           
                        I know the court system is skewed towards women when it comes to parental rights and things of that nature, but I didn't take that to be the meaning here.

                        What societal pressures are you referring to, specifically, and why would that justify racial imbalance?

                        Affirmative action is not racist, because it does not assert superiority of any race over another. It involves no stereotypes, positive or negative. The article you cite does not argue otherwise. Equal opportunity is important, but if you're not taking societal disadvantages into account, then you're just perpetuating the effects of systemic racism. That delays economic equality, at best.
                        Report Abuse
          • Author by zamfir273114 (May 26, 2009 11:36 pm ET)
              5
            Face it, Sotomayer made a racist remark. Then, in regards to New Haven, she threw out a test because no African American's or hispanics were capable at that point in time of passing the exam. That would be like throwing out the BAR EXAM for black candidates because not enough have passed the exam in the past. EVEN WORSE, Sotomayer simply agrees to go along with the above and arrogantly ignores calls to explain herself in a formal judicial report. That is like saying, hey, I am in power and can do whatever I want and not even explain to you why. Hmm mmm. She is about to be granted a Supreme Court position FOR LIFE TENURE. I think we all have a right to ask some questions.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Craig (May 27, 2009 12:25 am ET)
              2  
              ...she threw out a test...

              Not even close. Try reading the article.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by solon (May 27, 2009 12:26 am ET)
              4  
              NO she did NOT make a racist remark. You guys can keep trying this spin but in context there is NOTHING racist about the remark.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by pointofview (May 27, 2009 1:02 am ET)
                  4
                Ok Solon

                Exactly what is the context that makes what she said NOT racist? How on earth can you TWIST it to try and make it SEEM rational?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Brabantio (May 27, 2009 4:55 am ET)
                  4 1
                  I'll help you out. The context is that she was talking about cases of discrimination against race and gender. The point would be that a more diverse court system is more likely to reject that sort of discrimination than a system made up of white men.

                  There's no twisting involved. You should have been able to read up on the context of that remark by now, since it's been discussed in several different articles on this site alone. My guess is that you're simply unwilling to grasp this simple understanding for partisan reasons.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Floyd (May 27, 2009 9:21 am ET)
                    2 3
                    brabantio: The point would be that a more diverse court system is more likely to reject that sort of discrimination than a system made up of white men.

                    I think you're wrong. The SC is supposed to be impartial judges making decisions on law. If the court was all black or all white or all women or all gay, it should make decisions based on law, not whether they agree or disagree with race sensitive issues. If you feel that diversity belongs on this bench simply because you don't trust judges to make proper decisions then you are being racist. Which, if that's the point you think she is making then she is being racist, too.
                    I think the best judge available should be placed in this position, no matter what race/gender/religion they are. Just like the constitution gaurantees for everyone else. If it ends up all white then that means they are the best ones available. If it ends up all black then that means they are the best ones available. Your diversity demands have no place on the SC! Pick the best one, not the one who 'looks' right for political reasons.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by magnolialover (May 27, 2009 12:12 pm ET)
                      1 1
                      It should be that way, but it's not, or hasn't been in time's past.

                      Her rulings have shown her to be fair and competent, so if you want to talk about her as a jurist, which we should be instead of a comment she made about discrimination, she is a great choice.
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                      • Author by Stargnoc (May 27, 2009 10:34 pm ET)
                           
                        Her ruling against the firefighters' case based on precedent worries me. She's not an activist judge, and I wish she were. Progress can be slowed by following ignorant rulings of the past.

                        Someone said white males perpetuated discrimination against blacks for hundreds of years. Now a judge - Sotomayor - perpetuates discrimination against white males and you call it fair.

                        Open your eyes. If I, a privileged white male, can see past race and gender to the heart of the issue from my throne of gold resting on the shoulders of women and minorities, then surely you can too?

                        Guess what - I didn't get where I am today through privilege. I don't come from wealth - the reverse is true. But I excelled through hard work, I earned my place. And so should every human being, regardless of their race or gender.

                        Is there still discrimination based on race and gender in the world? Yes, certainly, and it goes both ways. I'm not blind to either side. Why are you?

                        Abre los ojos.
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                    • Author by Brabantio (May 27, 2009 2:22 pm ET)
                        1
                      As Magnolia said, you're conflating "should" with the way things actually are. Whether people are supposed to be impartial or not doesn't refute the argument that a more diverse court system is more likely to reject discrimination.

                      If you believe that people of different races share the same aptitude and intelligence, then there should be no problem with having diversity in the justice system. Right?
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                      • Author by Floyd (May 27, 2009 3:02 pm ET)
                           
                        That's right. There should be no problem with diversity in the justice system. However, there seems to be a prevalance of decisions toward particular races/genders/religions depending on who is making the decision. So, while diversity would be prefered, there seems to be an expectation from the diverse population towards having decisions made based on that particular groups priorities. Meaning white judges would decide toward white people and black judges would decide toward black people and so on. Is that what you want? Or are you just tired of status quo and want completely different people making decisions based on the same criteria as before, just from a different perspective?
                        How about we hire the most qualified and let the chips fall where they may?
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                        • Author by Brabantio (May 27, 2009 9:39 pm ET)
                             
                          What, exactly, is the basis for the "expectation" argument? As if white judges don't make rulings that support minorities, or what? Clarence Thomas doesn't support affirmative action. I'm not sure race overrides everything the way you're suggesting it does.

                          As to qualifications, why is Alito, for instance, more qualified to be on the bench than Sotomayor? She seems to be quite intelligent and entirely competent. Going back to Thomas, do you really think he was the most qualified, and do you believe the fact that Thurgood Marshall was being replaced was just a coincidence?
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                          • Author by Floyd (May 28, 2009 9:39 am ET)
                            2  
                            brabantio; Clarence Thomas doesn't support affirmative action.

                            But, your point is that whites can't rule fairly becaue they aren't a minority, then you give an example of a judge being fair despite his race. Unless you are saying that only minorities can be fair judges, in which case you are being the racist. I am saying that judges should be considered on their qualifications, not on their race/sex/religion. You, however, seem to think race/sex/religion trump qualifications. And, you certainly seem to be very racist in your arguements to support your stance.
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                            • Author by Brabantio (May 28, 2009 1:37 pm ET)
                                1
                              No, I never suggested that white people can't rule fairly for any reason, nor did I suggest that only minorities can be fair judges. You're trying to paint what I'm saying as absolutist one way or another, and that's not how I view things.

                              I'm not seeing the argument that Sotomayor is not qualified. You are suggesting that, but without some basis for that then that comes off as racist.
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                              • Author by Floyd (May 28, 2009 7:18 pm ET)
                                   
                                Brabantio; No, I never suggested that white people can't rule fairly for any reason, nor did I suggest that only minorities can be fair judges.


                                Yes, you do. By making this arguement; "But if the population is 12% black, for instance, and your company has less of a percentage of its employees than that as black, then what's the objection to keeping it in proportion?".
                                You imply that forcing a 12% black employment as per the 12% population is the only fair way. What if there aren't 12% qualified to be employees? Are you saying that more qualified workers should then be fired (or not hired) simply because there is a quota to fullfill? According to your statement, that is what you believe.
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                                • Author by Brabantio (May 29, 2009 9:57 am ET)
                                     
                                  You're utterly confused. What does the idea of racial balance have to do with whether white people can rule fairly or whether only minorities can be fair judges? These are two completely separate concepts.

                                  Do you believe that this supposed lack of qualification would be due to societal imbalance, or do you believe it would have to do with some sort of genetic inferiority? If it's the latter, then that's that. If it's due to imbalance, though, then if you have only 5% or so as black, then you have other people in that 7% of jobs that are inferior in aptitude. So what do you suggest? Do you support increased government spending in heavily-black inner city schools? Or do you just not think that systemic racism is anything worth fixing?
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                                  • Author by Floyd (May 29, 2009 11:50 am ET)
                                    1  
                                    by Brabantio; You're utterly confused. What does the idea of racial balance have to do with whether white people can rule fairly or whether only minorities can be fair judges?

                                    It has nothing to do with that, and I haven't said that it did. What I'm saying is that racial quotas don't equate most knowledgable. Do you want quotas or quality? I prefer quality. If (your example) more than 12% of blacks are more qualified then I have no problem with hiring more than 12%. If less than, then I prefer hiring the more qualified over anyone else. Even if it means 100% of minorities are more qualified than whites. In which case I would expect the more qualified to get the job. Is that so hard to understand? Which seems to be way different than your preferences.
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                                    • Author by Brabantio (May 29, 2009 1:30 pm ET)
                                        1
                                      You provided a quote and then went off on another topic. I wanted to know why you thought Sotomayor wasn't qualified, and you're dodging that.

                                      And you're not answering the question. What do you think the cause would be for this supposed lack of quality? You can't really address what I'm saying without answering that question.

                                      I don't see any inherent difference between quotas and quality because I believe people have the same general abilities regardless of race. Do you see it differently or not?
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                    • Author by Stargnoc (May 27, 2009 10:20 pm ET)
                      1 3
                      Sotomayor made the wrong choice in the New Haven firefighters' case, regardless of the fact that she is a Hispanic woman. It is a clear case of discrimination, so apparently she DOESN'T make better decisions than me, a misguided white man.
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                • Author by solon (May 27, 2009 7:34 am ET)
                  3 1
                  The context is available on this very site. It is simply NOT racist what You want to call twist is simply FACT and reality. I know those things are foriegn and irrational to you. Those of us who reside in the reality based universe however tend to take them seriously.
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                • Author by magnolialover (May 27, 2009 9:49 am ET)
                  3  
                  And as others have said, the remark that you all keep saying is racist, is not in fact, when taken in its full context, which folks like you fail to do.

                  Taken in full context, she was talking about discrimination specifically, and how she, and other minorities might have a better hold on what was, and what wasn't discrimination, because in the US, the white male reigns supreme, and has for quite some time. Someone who had more of a chance to be exposed to said discrimination might know a thing or 2 about it, instead of white males, who are most likely to never be exposed to dicrimination based on their appearance and or race.
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                  • Author by Stargnoc (May 27, 2009 10:22 pm ET)
                    1 2
                    If that's what Sotomayor thinks then I'd say she doesn't have a very firm grasp on discrimination, nor do you. Whites and males are discriminated against daily - people like you just don't care and so you remain ignorant. Do some research. Check out men's rights.
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          • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 27, 2009 10:38 am ET)
            3  
            Your ability to take remarks out of context and generalize about them makes you deserve criticism. All high court decisions make policy. Was the majority making policy yesterday when it decided to accept confessions without the defendant's lawyer present?
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      • Author by LarryE (May 26, 2009 10:24 pm ET)
        1  
        IS that a JOKE?

        I'm sure she was serious. Which does put a clear context to the views of Wendy Long and the Judicial Confirmation Network.
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    • Author by FCinNYC (May 27, 2009 3:35 pm ET)
      1  
      Wendy Long is half-right: absolutely without question the current Scalia/Thomas/Alito/Roberts/Kennedy-dominated Supreme Court is activist (see Jeffrey Toobin's excellent piece, "No More Mr. Nice Guy" about John Roberts in the May 25th New Yorker) - but liberal? Please! Where do these people live - on Bizarro World?
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