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Myths and falsehoods surrounding the Sotomayor nomination

May 27, 2009 9:10 pm ET

SUMMARY: The media have advanced numerous myths and falsehoods about Sonia Sotomayor. In addition to evaluating these claims on their merits, the media should also consistently report that conservatives were reportedly very clear about their intentions to oppose President Obama's nominee for political purposes, no matter who it was.

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In covering the announcement by President Obama that he intends to nominate Judge Sonia Sotomayor to replace retiring Justice David Souter on the Supreme Court, the media have advanced numerous myths and falsehoods about Sotomayor. In some cases, the media assert the falsehoods themselves; in others, they report unchallenged the claims of others.

In addition to evaluating these claims on their merits, the media should also consistently report that conservatives were reportedly very clear about their intentions to oppose Obama's nominee, no matter who it was. Their attacks must be assessed in the context of their reported plans to use the confirmation process to "help refill depleted coffers and galvanize a movement demoralized by Republican electoral defeats"; "build the conservative movement"; provide "a massive teaching moment for America"; "prepare the great debate with a view toward Senate elections in 2010 and the presidency"; and "hurt conservative Democrats."

Media Matters for America has compiled a list of myths and falsehoods that have emerged or resurfaced since Sotomayor's nomination was first reported.

MYTH: Sotomayor advocated legislating from the bench

Media including The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC have misrepresented Sotomayor's statement -- during a February 25, 2005, Duke University School of Law forum -- that the "court of appeals is where policy is made." These media outlets have advanced assertions that Sotomayor was advocating that judges make policy from the bench, or in the case of NBC's Matt Lauer and Chuck Todd, falsely characterized Sotomayor's comment themselves. But the context of her comments makes clear that she was simply explaining the difference between district courts and appeals courts after being asked about the differences between clerkships at the two levels, an explanation in line with federal appellate courts' "policy making" role described by the Oxford Companion to the Supreme Court of the United States (2005).

From Sotomayor's remarks:

SOTOMAYOR: The saw is that if you're going into academia, you're going to teach, or as Judge Lucero just said, public interest law, all of the legal defense funds out there, they're looking for people with court of appeals experience, because it is -- court of appeals is where policy is made. And I know -- and I know this is on tape and I should never say that because we don't make law, I know. OK, I know. I'm not promoting it, and I'm not advocating it, I'm -- you know. OK. Having said that, the court of appeals is where, before the Supreme Court makes the final decision, the law is percolating -- its interpretation, its application. And Judge Lucero is right. I often explain to people, when you're on the district court, you're looking to do justice in the individual case. So you are looking much more to the facts of the case than you are to the application of the law because the application of the law is non-precedential, so the facts control. On the court of appeals, you are looking to how the law is developing, so that it will then be applied to a broad class of cases. And so you're always thinking about the ramifications of this ruling on the next step in the development of the law. You can make a choice and say, "I don't care about the next step," and sometimes we do. Or sometimes we say, "We'll worry about that when we get to it" -- look at what the Supreme Court just did. But the point is that that's the differences -- the practical differences in the two experiences are the district court is controlled chaos and not so controlled most of the time.

According to NBC News justice correspondent Pete Williams, "[E]ven some conservatives and followers of strict constructionism have said that [Sotomayor] was only stating the obvious: that trial judges, district court judges, decide only the cases before them, and that appeals courts, because they are the, you know, above the other courts, do set policy; they do make precedent that governs the other courts." Indeed, legal experts have stated that Sotomayor's comment is not controversial, as The Huffington Post and PolitiFact.com have noted. In the words of Hofstra University law professor Eric Freedman, Sotomayor's remark was "the absolute judicial equivalent of saying the sun rises each morning" and "thoroughly uncontroversial to anyone other than a determined demagogue."

MYTH: Sotomayor said, "Latina judges are obviously better than white male judges"

Media figures have misrepresented a remark that Sotomayor made in a speech published in 2002, claiming that she suggested, in the words of Fox News' Megyn Kelly, "that Latina judges are obviously better than white male judges." Further advancing the falsehood, numerous media figures have asserted that Sotomayor made a "racist statement." In fact, when Sotomayor asserted, "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life," she was specifically discussing the importance of judicial diversity in determining race and sex discrimination cases. Indeed, as Media Matters has noted, former Bush Justice Department lawyer John Yoo has similarly stressed that Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas "is a black man with a much greater range of personal experience than most of the upper-class liberals who take potshots at him" and argued that Thomas' work on the court has been influenced by his understanding of the less fortunate acquired through personal experience.

MYTH: Sotomayor's Supreme Court reversal rate is "high"

In a May 27 article headlined "Sotomayor reversed 60% by high court," The Washington Times uncritically quoted Conservative Women for America president Wendy Wright saying that Sotomayor's reversals -- which the Times reported as three of five cases, or 60 percent -- were "high." Similarly, on May 26, Congressional Quarterly Today uncritically quoted (subscription required) Wendy Long, counsel to the Judicial Confirmation Network, claiming that Sotomayor "has an extremely high rate of her decisions being reversed, indicating that she is far more of a liberal activist than even the current liberal activist Supreme Court." In fact, contrary to the claim that a reversal rate of 60 percent is "high," data compiled by SCOTUSblog since 2004 show that the Supreme Court has reversed more than 60 percent of the federal appeals court cases it considered each year.

MYTH: Liberal judges like Sotomayor are "activist[s]"

CNN's Gloria Borger and Bill Schneider have uncritically repeated Republican claims that Sotomayor is -- in Schneider's words -- a "liberal activist," and in doing so have also advanced the baseless conservative claim that judicial activism is solely a "liberal" practice. But at least two studies -- looking at two different sets of criteria -- have found that the most "conservative" Supreme Court justices have been among the biggest judicial activists.

A 2005 study by Yale University law professor Paul Gewirtz and Yale Law School graduate Chad Golder indicated that among Supreme Court justices at that time, those most frequently labeled "conservative" were among the most frequent practitioners of at least one brand of judicial activism -- the tendency to strike down statutes passed by Congress. Indeed, Gewirtz and Golder found that Thomas "was the most inclined" to do so, "voting to invalidate 65.63 percent of those laws." Additionally, a recently published study by Cass R. Sunstein (recently named by Obama to head the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs) and University of Chicago law professor Thomas Miles used a different measurement of judicial activism -- the tendency of judges to strike down decisions by federal regulatory agencies. Sunstein and Miles found that by this definition, the Supreme Court's "conservative" justices were the most likely to engage in "judicial activism," while the "liberal" justices were most likely to exercise "judicial restraint."

Moreover, according to Politico's Jeanne Cummings, "Sotomayor's history suggests the very sort of judicial restraint that conservatives clamor for in a nominee." She added:

Whatever her personal ideology, she ruled against an abortion-rights group challenging [President] Bush's policy of banning overseas groups that take federal funds from conducting abortions. In another case, she ruled in favor of abortion protesters.

"She applied the law even-handedly and come out with the right decision," said Bruce Hausknecht, a judicial analyst for Focus on the Family Action, a large and influential voice on conservative social issues.

Sotomayor's rulings on religious liberty issues also have pleased the conservative community.

"It would have been a lot easier to communicate to the base why Judge Wood would not have made a good nominee," said Hausknecht. "With Sotomayor, we have to take a wait-and-see attitude."

MYTH: Sotomayor was "[s]oft on New Jersey [c]orruption"

In a May 26 post to his National Review Online "the campaign spot" blog, Jim Geraghty misleadingly suggested that as a U.S. district judge, Sotomayor was "[s]oft on New Jersey [c]orruption" due to the sentencing and financial penalty she issued in 1995 to Joseph C. Salema in a municipal bond kickback scheme. Geraghty cited the book The Soprano State: New Jersey's Culture of Corruption, by Bob Ingle and Sandy McClure, who wrote that "Salema could have spent up to 10 years behind bars" and that Sotomayor "instead sentenced him to six months in a halfway house and six months of home detention, fined him $10,000 and gave him 1400 hours of community service." Geraghty commented: "A $10,000 fine to someone who pleads guilty to a federal charge of sharing in more than $200,000 in kickbacks. Boy, that will teach him!" But in declaring Sotomayor "[s]oft," Geraghty ignored the fact that prosecutors reportedly sought a prison term of only one year and that Salema reportedly paid "a full restitution of $342,000" in a settlement with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

MYTH: New Haven firefighters case shows Sotomayor is an "activist"

The media have advanced conservatives' claim that Sotomayor's position in the New Haven firefighters case, Ricci v. DeStefano, shows that she is an "activist" judge. For example, a May 26 Congressional Quarterly Today article quoted Long as saying that Sotomayor "has an extremely high rate of her decisions being reversed, indicating that she is far more of a liberal activist than even the current liberal activist Supreme Court" and reported that Long "pointed to Sotomayor's participation in a 2nd Circuit discrimination case, Ricci v. DeStefano, in which a group of white New Haven, Conn., firefighters alleged they were unfairly denied promotions." In fact, Sotomayor agreed with four of her 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals colleagues that precedent compelled the decision in the case. Moreover, contrary to Long's suggestion that Sotomayor's decision shows that she is "far more of a liberal activist than even the current liberal activist Supreme Court," Souter -- whom Sotomayor would replace -- reflected an understanding of the situation faced by the city of New Haven, asking counsel for the firefighters: "Why isn't the most reasonable reading of this set of facts a reading which is consistent with giving the city an opportunity, assuming good faith, to start again? ... [I]sn't that the only way to avoid the damned if you do, damned if you don't situation?"

MYTH: Sotomayor lacks the intellect to be an effective justice

Several media figures have repeated the charge that Sotomayor lacks the intellect to be an effective Supreme Court justice, often quoting only anonymous sources or no sources at all. For instance, CNN's John King said while reporting on Obama's nomination announcement, "[S]ome ... are voicing surprise at this because they view her as a highly competent and a highly qualified judge, but they do not believe that she was the most, shall we say, of the intellectual firebrands that the president had on his list, those who could go up against a [Antonin] Scalia, or an [Samuel] Alito on the court in the arguments." The Washington Post's Dana Milbank similarly stated: "As a legal mind, Sotomayor is described in portraits as competent, but no Louis Brandeis." However, Media Matters has identified law scholars and legal professionals who worked with Sotomayor who have described her as "highly intelligent" and even "brilliant."

As Tom Goldstein noted on SCOTUSblog, "Opponents' first claim -- likely stated obliquely and only on background -- will be that Judge Sotomayor is not smart enough for the job" because "[t]he public expects Supreme Court Justices to be brilliant." Goldstein added: "The objective evidence is that Sotomayor is in fact extremely intelligent. Graduating at the top of the class at Princeton is a signal accomplishment. Her opinions are thorough, well-reasoned, and clearly written. Nothing suggests she isn't the match of the other Justices." Goldstein is a partner at Akin Gump Straus Hauer & Feldmann LLP and "co-head" of the firm's "litigation and Supreme Court practices" who "teaches Supreme Court Litigation at both Stanford and Harvard Law Schools."

MYTH: Sotomayor is "domineering" and "a bit of a bully"

Echoing a May 4 New Republic article by legal affairs editor Jeffrey Rosen, Fox News host Bill Hemmer and Supreme Court reporter Shannon Bream relied on anonymous sources that reportedly characterized Sotomayor as "domineering," sometimes "bogged down in marginal details," and "a bit of a bully." A CNN.com article similarly referenced "perceived ... concerns about her temperament." However, several of Rosen's sources were unnamed "former law clerks for other judges on the Second Circuit." Beyond allowing sources who are not identified to throw darts at Sotomayor, such citations of law clerks is problematic for a different reason, according to American University law professor Darren Hutchinson, who wrote, "[T]he use of clerks to determine whether a judge should receive a Supreme Court nomination is extremely problematic," because "[m]ost clerks have just graduated from law school, have never tried a case or practiced law, and do not have sufficient experience or knowledge of the law to make an informed assessment of a judge."

MYTH: "Empathy" is code for "liberal activist"

Media figures and outlets have focused on the purported controversy over Obama's May 1 statement that he would seek a replacement for Souter who demonstrates the quality of "empathy" and conservatives' criticism that Sotomayor, in the words of Long, "applies her feelings ... when deciding cases." Several media figures and outlets, including Fox News' Special Report and The Washington Post, have falsely suggested that Obama said that he will seek a Supreme Court nominee who demonstrates empathy rather than a commitment to follow the law. In fact, in the statement in question, Obama said that his nominee will demonstrate both. Other media have stated or advanced the claim that, in the words of a May 4 National Review editorial, "[e]mpathy is simply a codeword for an inclination toward liberal activism." But these media figures and outlets have ignored conservatives' history of stressing the importance of judges' possessing empathy or compassion.

Indeed, during his Supreme Court confirmation hearings, responding to Sen. Herb Kohl's (D-WI) question, "I'd like to ask you why you want this job?" Thomas stated in part: "I believe, Senator, that I can make a contribution, that I can bring something different to the Court, that I can walk in the shoes of the people who are affected by what the Court does." Moreover, then-President George H.W. Bush cited Thomas' "great empathy" in his remarks announcing that he was nominating Thomas to serve on the Supreme Court. Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO) similarly stated: "Though his skills as a lawyer and a judge are obvious, they are not, in my view, the only reason that this committee should vote to approve Judge Thomas's nomination. Just as important is his compassion and understanding of the impact that the Supreme Court has on the lives of average Americans." In his review of Thomas' 2007 memoir, My Grandfather's Son (HarperCollins), former Bush administration lawyer John Yoo touted the unique perspective that he said Thomas brings to the bench. Yoo wrote that Thomas "is a black man with a much greater range of personal experience than most of the upper-class liberals who take potshots at him" and argued that Thomas' work on the court has been influenced by his understanding of the less fortunate acquired through personal experience.

Additionally, several Republican then-senators, including Strom Thurmond (SC), Al D'Amato (NY), and Mike DeWine (OH), cited compassion as a qualification for judicial confirmation. For instance, during the confirmation hearings for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Thurmond stated that "compassion" was one of the "special qualifications I believe an individual should possess to serve on the Supreme Court," adding that "[w]hile a nominee must be firm in his or her decisions, they should show mercy when appropriate." Similarly, during the confirmation hearings for Justice Stephen Breyer, Thurmond said "compassion" was among "the special criteria which I believe an individual must possess to serve on the Supreme Court."

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    • Author by creeksneakers2 (May 27, 2009 10:01 pm ET)
      4 1
      The right wing is trying to confuse the public into thinking that Judge Sotomayor was criticized by fellow judge and mentor Jose Cabranes for not giving adequate consideration to her decision in the New Haven discrimination case Ricci v Stephano. Out of context quotes are provided like they are here at RushLimbaugh.com:

      "According to Judge Cabranes, Sotomayor’s opinion 'contains no reference whatsoever to the constitutional claims at the core of this case' and its 'perfunctory disposition rests uneasily with the weighty issues presented by this appeal.'" Rush Limbaugh 5/26/09

      That's all taken out of context. Here's what happened.

      First a district court found in favor of the city of New Haven and published a lengthy opinion. A panel of judges Sotomayor sat with heard an appeal and upheld the district court's decision. Sotomayor's panel only wrote one paragraph themselves in their opinion of the case. In the paragraph, the panel said they completely agreed with the district court's opinion in its entiretly. So the panel cited the entire district court opinion and published.

      When Judge Cabranes complained about an opinion containing no reference to constitutional claims or making perfunctory disposition he was criticizing the panel for not writing their own opinion. He was not criticizing the way Sotomayor's panel decided the case.

      Just more right wing disinformation.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by carlileb5935 (May 28, 2009 1:13 am ET)
           
        Well, I don't know-- it's kind of the same thing. I wonder why they didn't file an opinion of their own-- it must have been conclusively obvious. But Cabranes should talk-- he's had problems of his own-- he'd be advised to shut up sometimes, too.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (May 28, 2009 1:25 pm ET)
          1  
          I am not sure and cannot speak for Sotomayer but perhaps they didnt particularly like the judgement but agreed that it was following the law. Sometimes a judge has to follow the law even when it leads to a judgement he would rather not make. I am not saying for certain this is the case just speculating
          Report Abuse
    • Author by LuvLuLu (May 27, 2009 10:34 pm ET)
      5 2
      As is often the case, Republicans try to turn someone's strengths into weaknesses.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wzwriter (May 28, 2009 9:01 am ET)
        5 3
        And a RepubliKKKan's weakness is from the neck up.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (May 28, 2009 11:27 am ET)
        4  
        They certainly have hipocracy down pat. Check out this direct quote from Samuel Alito's confirmation hearing:

        ALITO: Senator, I tried to in my opening statement, I tried to provide a little picture of who I am as a human being and how my background and my experiences have shaped me and brought me to this point. … And that’s why I went into that in my opening statement. Because when a case comes before me involving, let’s say, someone who is an immigrant — and we get an awful lot of immigration cases and naturalization cases — I can’t help but think of my own ancestors, because it wasn’t that long ago when they were in that position. [...]

        And that goes down the line. When I get a case about discrimination, I have to think about people in my own family who suffered discrimination because of their ethnic background or because of religion or because of gender. And I do take that into account.

        I don't hear the racist right calling Alito a racist though.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by carlileb5935 (May 28, 2009 1:05 am ET)
      4  
      An additional note to this high reversal rate fallacy:

      The quoted figure only deals with those cases that were appealed and heard and where Sotomayor's opinion was reversed.

      But it's misleading because it doesn't count those opinions of hers that were appealed and not heard. Of the tiny percentage of her opinions that were heard, she had a 60% reversal rate, which is normal.

      But her opinions were rarely ever challenged by the court at all. They were almost universally accepted-- it was her appellants who were rejected almost all of the time.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Dissenting Justice (May 28, 2009 7:28 am ET)
        4  
        Thanks. I was going to mention that. The Supreme Court only takes 1% of cases appealed to it. Sotomayor has decided almost 500 cases as a federal judge (appellate and trial court). Only a handfull have been reversed, and only a handfull were heard. Her rate is actually better than average.

        Another problem with looking at the data this way is the fact that appeals court rulings are made by 3-judge panels. So, when the SCT reversed an appellate court ruling, it is reversing the panel, not one judge.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by carlileb5935 (May 28, 2009 9:29 pm ET)
             
          The way you calculate the percentage depends upon what the challenge is. Maddow-- as she often does-- mangled both ways together, BTW.

          If the Republicans say, "60 percent of her opinions have been reversed!" then you divide the total number of her opinions into those reversed and factor them by 100 to get the percentage.

          But if their claim is, "She has a 60 percent reversal rate!" then the only honest way to rebut this is to weigh the number of reversals into the total number of appeal writs that were filed in response to her opinions.

          What these Repubs are doing is weighing the reversals into those appeals that the Court agreed to hear, which neglects those they refused to hear because they did not have a problem with them. But even then their reversal figure is wrong.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by CountChocul8 (May 28, 2009 9:57 am ET)
           
        Yeah, I don't think it is highly relevant in any case that she was reversed by the SC. I think her rulings should either stand or fall on their merit, not how they stacked up against the SC. These can all be examined in a nomination hearing.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Daniel Barber (May 28, 2009 3:12 am ET)
      6 2
      Republicans and Right-Wingers, along with their pathetic puppets in the media are going to find that smearing Sotomayor will gain them nothing but heartache. They will UTTERLY fail to derail her confirmation, but they will, in the case of the media puppets ensure distrust of viewers for anything they say (you listening Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, etc.), and in the case of the Republicans and Right-Wingers, it will only further assure their demise.

      Conservatism is dying a rather horrid death in this country. By 2020 the Republican Party will go the way of the Whigs. I laugh at these morons who don't understand they're digging their own political graves...lol
      Report Abuse
      • Author by CountChocul8 (May 28, 2009 9:45 am ET)
        1 5
        Remove the derision and make an arguement.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by LuvLuLu (May 28, 2009 10:15 pm ET)
          1  
          So, remind me - which rightwing troll are you? I know there's one who can't spell "argument" without sticking an extra "e" in there.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by historygeek001 (May 28, 2009 1:18 pm ET)
        2  
        I agree with part of what you say--I think that Sotomayor will be confirmed. But I also think that Rush, Dobbs, Beck, Hannity, and everybody like them will always spew their filth, no matter what, without regard for anything except their own wallets and their own agendas. They will never stop. We must work to get actual facts out there, and we will never be able to relax and coast.

        Conservatism is already dead; it was replaced with neocon garbage years ago. Goldwater wouldn't be allowed in the Republican party today--even Reagan would be considered too liberal in some things (he was definitely against torture)(and remember how Newt screamed when he talked to Gorbachev?).
        Report Abuse
        • Author by magnolialover (May 28, 2009 3:58 pm ET)
          1  
          Even more weird, is that Nixon would be considered a liberal today, and TR would definitely be called a "far left liberal loon".

          Republicans went way off the tracks somewhere.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by carlileb5935 (May 28, 2009 9:37 pm ET)
          2
        I'm not so sure she will be confirmed.

        First of all, she needs at least one Republican vote to get out of committee. They're gonna grill her, and if she slips up, it will be politically easy for Hatch to say she's not in our mainstream, etc.

        Friends laugh, but I think this Norman Thomas thing is going to hurt her bad. She's going to be forced to explain why she was attracted to him, and when she flounders and tries to make it look like she didn't know much about him when she really did, it will all look suspicious to these guys, like she's a secret socialist.

        To quote Norman Thomas on your grad page is a big deal. It means you like him. So she's got some explaining to do. And it's just too perfect for the Right.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by LuvLuLu (May 28, 2009 10:16 pm ET)
          1  
          It does not mean she likes him. It means he said something worth quoting.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by carlileb5935 (May 29, 2009 5:59 pm ET)
              1
            No, she obviously liked him-- the quote was pretty ordinaire, she obviously had a fascination with the guy-- to quote in a Princeton yearbook is a big deal.

            To claim that a summa cum laude graduate had little knowledge or admiration of Norman Thomas, but that she quotes him in her yearbook (!), is a suicide mission for anyone to undertake.

            If she screws up on this at the hearings, there's a good chance she will be toast. It will be like she is hiding or evading her fondness for a socialist, and they will go nuts.

            I'm not so convinced she will breeze through-- she won't be filibustered because it will never get that far if there's a problem.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Brabantio (May 29, 2009 11:19 pm ET)
              1  
              This seems a bit of a stretch. It's entirely subjective that the quote was "ordinaire". I happen to like it, personally, and I find it evocative enough that it seems perfectly reasonable that it could resonate strongly with someone. It's not like she quoted Spiccoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High or something.

              Also, I would be more inclined to see this scenario play out as you say if "socialist" hadn't been done to death by conservatives already. Nobody seems to care, really. And if it didn't pack any punch before, why would anyone imagine they would have to cave in to it now?
              Report Abuse
        • Author by wwittman (May 29, 2009 12:21 am ET)
          1  
          It would be interesting to see which Republican Senator would be suicidal enough to derail her.

          Unless they already assume they'll never get re-elected.

          It won't happen.

          They will bluster and let the Limbaughs of the world do the smearing, but they won't go near it themselves.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by carlileb5935 (May 29, 2009 6:03 pm ET)
              3
            If Sotomayor takes the position that she didn't really like Norman Thomas, she just liked his quote, she will be quickly exposed as a liar by at least one Republican senator. She really has to watch herself here, and I can assure you that her legal advisors will be spending much time trying to figure this one out before the hearings.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by AdalineOrtwo (May 28, 2009 6:30 am ET)
      4  
      "But there are perceptions that we have because we are women. It's a subtle influence. We can be sensitive to things that are said in draft opinions that (male justices) are not aware can be offensive." -Justice Ginsburg

      In referencing the case of a 13 yr old girl who was ordered to strip down to her undergarments and submit to a search by school authorities, she stated:

      "They have never been a 13-year-old girl,"..."It's a very sensitive age for a girl. I didn't think that my colleagues, some of them, quite understood."

      She went on to say;

      "The differences between male and female justices, she said, are "seldom in the outcome." But then, she added, "it is sometimes in the outcome."

      Sounds like a Justice who knows the value that her perspective and 'richness of her experience' has brought to the Court. Latina Judge Sotomayor can only refine the Court further by her unique life history. This is something that should be lauded not condemned.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by CountChocul8 (May 28, 2009 12:19 pm ET)
        1 4
        That really speaks to the incompetence of judges who cannot empathize. Nine people cannot possibly represent the entirity of America. I would hope that all nine could be good judges. It may well be true that her experiences could give the court a richer breadth of understanding concerning these issues, however, her quote was offesinve and should examined. If there is nothing to it, fine.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by evenhanded23 (May 28, 2009 1:02 pm ET)
          2  
          I fail to see what was offensive in her quote...whether the "her" you refer to is Ginsburg or Sotomayor. On some issues, the lack of direct experience and depth of knowledge can not be overcome by "reading up" on the topic. If you don't have it, you can't acquire it. All you can do is guess at it or hope that someone better informed can provide the proper perspective. Or, you can just wing it and pretend that if you don't have it, it doesn't matter. The right wing attitude seems to be that anything outside the experience of the typical white male doesn't count for anything important.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by CountChocul8 (May 28, 2009 9:50 am ET)
        7
      The difference between the Clarence Thomas ractist quote and the Sonia Sotomayor racist quote is that the latter is her words, and the former is not the words of Clarence Thomas. I think a confirmation hearing will allow her to explain what she meant.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (May 28, 2009 11:12 am ET)
        6 1
        1) nothing racist in Sotomayor's remarks, unless you are a racist trying to project to make yourself feel better.

        2) you should read Thomas's book "my grandfather's son". He pens (in his own words) how he doesn't trust white folks, white power frustrates him, and that he's embittered by the spectre of white supremacy. He called america a paranoid color wheel and of course tried to play down his sexual harassment (the reason he was questioned about his fitness to be a supreme court judge). He wrote that Alabama Sen. Howell Heflin was a slave owner sitting on the porch of a plantation house. He also wrote Never before had I felt their full effect, and the burden seemed more than I could bear. Ever since leaving home, I'd played by the rules -- but where had it gotten me? Whites could change those rules whenever they pleased. It had always been that way, and always would be.

        You're right about one thing, the two are not the same. Thomas is clearly a racist. And a sexist.
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        • Author by CountChocul8 (May 28, 2009 12:04 pm ET)
            4
          I think my point was that her statement should be examined, and that those similar statements that are being thrown around in the media attributed to Clarence Thomas were not made by him. I also think that it is ironic that you go to such great lentghs to make your point through means of attempting to belittle others. I don't know what you are attempting to project, but I know what it looks like: intolerance.
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          • Author by snoopy (May 28, 2009 12:56 pm ET)
            2  
            I do have intolerance for those that are intolerant. But nothing is being projected. It's quite clear now from what Thomas wrote, and also from the Alito comments, that those on the right are hipocrites calling Sotomayor a racist. And I pulled those comments Thomas said straight from his book, so looks like you are wrong about him not making them. I do give you credit, I saw your post below saying you'd wait for the hearings before passing judgement.
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        • Author by magnolialover (May 28, 2009 12:09 pm ET)
          1  
          I don't think that Thomas is a racist at all. Again, just like other black people, his experiences were what they were at the time he was growing up. I think he was definitely discriminated against, and had to go through a lot to end up where he is today.

          Now as far as Thomas being a sexist, and a sexual harasser, I have no doubt really.

          I don't think Thomas is a racist by any stretch of the imagination.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (May 28, 2009 12:21 pm ET)
            1  
            You're probably right, but I thought it important to point out how his words are way stronger than Sotomayor's.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by magnolialover (May 28, 2009 4:00 pm ET)
              1  
              Agreed. Racist, they are not though. As I said before, he is an older black man, he remembers Jim Crow laws probably pretty good, and how he was looked down upon, just for being black, and for no other reason. I think he comes about his mis-trust of white people through legit ways and means. His language is much stronger.
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          • Author by hesse (May 30, 2009 5:11 pm ET)
               
            Justice Thomas a racist; he expresses anger toward white people, and contempt for black people. He is also a bad judge who was rated the lowest of all Supreme Court nominees by the ABA. He is an affirmative action recipient who accepted it for himself, then claimed that it hurt him, which is incredible for a Supreme Court judge to say. He was the only Yale law student who was provided a tutor all three years, he got a prestigious job offer right out of school, and before that he got good schooling and lived with his grandparents who could provide for him better than his mother, while his sister (whom he has publicly insulted numerous times), got nothing.

            Thomas is definitely sexist, and Anita Hill spoke the truth, while Thomas lied and again felt sorry for himself when questioned about sexually harassing Hill. Thomas' roommate from college said that Thomas made a similar pubic-hair-on-coke comment in college.

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        • Author by rockmart1 (May 30, 2009 1:22 pm ET)
             
          A racist as are most white people. The treatment of the black race by the "superior white race" would leave you no choice but to be racist.
          Look how the blacks have to fight and struggle to this day for equal justice. Same with Latinos.
          Stop the bickering and trying to demonize their every sentence. We are supposed to be a Democracy, for all. As for sexist. That's a joke too. There is a great majority of sexist men in all fields.
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      • Author by eweston8542983 (May 28, 2009 11:27 am ET)
        2  
        I believe the whole context of the quote explains itself already. I believe the conplaints against her seek to missinterpet a few things from an active life. And then say these things define her.
        SOP you'd think for the Republican Noise Machine. Eric B was on Stephenie Miller this morning, he made some good observations, one caught my ear which I interpet to mean that the Machine has slipped its leash and is essentially without control beyond whatever the various talking and writing heads decide they want to say.
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        • Author by CountChocul8 (May 28, 2009 12:09 pm ET)
          1 3
          I think it's fair to say that the media, liberal and conservative alike, has slipped the leash quite some time ago. I'm willing to let her talk about her statements before making up my mind. I am not willing to give her a pass without a hearing though.
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          • Author by snoopy (May 28, 2009 2:17 pm ET)
            2  
            I hope you stick to that point. Yesterday you had a different view:

            by CountChocul8 (May 27, 2009 1:52 pm ET)
            The statement IS racist. Just because it aims at someone else does not make it acceptable. Deal with it America.

            I'm going to assume that reading the facts that were presented by this site made you realize you didn't have enough information to make that judgement.
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            • Author by CountChocul8 (May 29, 2009 8:20 pm ET)
                1
              The statement itself is racist. I don't necessarily think it shows she is a racist. But the statement sure is. You will have to forgive me for not believing you when you tell me that she is not a racist. I don't believe everything I read on the internet, and I sure don't believe this site to be any more unbiased than Oprah, Hannity or Limaugh. I am willing to listen to Sotomayor though. Is that fair enough?
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          • Author by anotheramerican (May 28, 2009 3:12 pm ET)
              3
            Count,

            After a few days of observing this controversy I am of the same opinion.

            Although I am suspicious of the "making policy" comment as she knew she should not have been stating it, there is no doubt in my mind that Sotomayer will explain those comments were meant in a way similar to those defending her here.

            What interests me more are her rulings and her judicial temperament.

            At this point I'm willing to ignore this whole thread until we get to the hearings.

            The only area that interests me surrounding this SC nomination is the continuation of identity politics practiced by Obama. Anyone know why Obama limited his top SC picks to women?

            Does anyone believe many of those on the left will not play the race card and/or gender card whenever a criticism of Sotomayer's opinions, statements, and rulings are discussed?
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            • Author by magnolialover (May 28, 2009 4:03 pm ET)
              1  
              No. If anyone on the left plays the race card, if someone disagrees with her rulings, and or decisions, I for one would be out in front saying, there is nothing here about race, or gender. We haven't seen any of that though so far.

              So far we've heard about how racist she is (she isn't).

              We've heard about how she wants to make policy from the bench (she doesn't).

              We've heard about how "radical" she is (she isn't).

              And so on and so forth.

              Comment on her rulings, on her judgments, those are fair game for certain. And keep it to that, and we'd be all that much better for it, but that ship has already sailed.
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              • Author by anotheramerican (May 28, 2009 4:28 pm ET)
                  2
                Hey mags,

                Glad you cleared up everything. :-)

                I don't doubt the media and especially the punditry will try to whip up controversy. For them, this is as good as it gets.

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                • Author by LuvLuLu (May 28, 2009 10:18 pm ET)
                  1  
                  It's not the media at fault here. It's those on the right falsely accusing her of wrongs she hasn't committed and missteps she never made.
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                  • Author by CountChocul8 (May 29, 2009 8:30 pm ET)
                       
                    So the media is a good guy here? The media doesn't report news anymore. It makes it. right and left Whatever sells.
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            • Author by Craig (May 28, 2009 9:58 pm ET)
              1  
              I'm betting you wouldn't have batted an eyelash if the top picks were all men.
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              • Author by wwittman (May 29, 2009 12:26 am ET)
                   
                Half the population is female.

                What possible reason should there be to explain why the most qualified candidates would NOT be equally divided?

                There's no reason the Supreme Court should NOT be half women.
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      • Author by solon (May 28, 2009 1:34 pm ET)
        2 1
        Her comment in context expains itself. I dont know what more could possibly need explained nor why anyone seeing the whole quote would continue to say it was offensive.
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        • Author by magnolialover (May 28, 2009 4:04 pm ET)
          2  
          I agree. I'm not sure why the good Count, and AA are asking for more explanation. Read the comment, in context, no explanation is required, because it's all there already, as in, what she was talking about.

          If they're talking about the making policy comment, go back, read what she said there as well, in context, and also read comments made by her peers saying that she was right when saying those things.
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          • Author by anotheramerican (May 28, 2009 4:42 pm ET)
              5
            mags,
            I have read them in context and I am not convinced about the "making policy" comment.

            I also believe that the "latina" experience goes beyond the circumstance in which it was stated. Critics are correct that if a white male said the same thing, he'd be automatically disqualified from consideration, so I think there is a double standard there.

            I would think a judge, especially a latina and a woman would be more circumspect and sensitive to the racial and gender implications of such a statement.

            Although bored by the excessive MMFA spotlight on Sotomayor, I think good things can come from the discussion in the Senate hearings. I'm hoping that many will see the double standard that exists between Democrats and their defense of Sotomayor and their filibuster of Estrada.
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            • Author by Craig (May 28, 2009 5:37 pm ET)
              3  
              Republicans called Democrats racists for opposing their nominee, and now they oppose the Democratic nominee by saying she's a racist and you see that as a double standard for Democrats.
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            • Author by evenhanded23 (May 28, 2009 6:00 pm ET)
              1  
              I have a problem with anyone who pretends that white males and Latina’s are on the same footing when it comes to judgeships in this country. Sotomayor can make her statement because there are so few Latina federal judges. Why on earth would a white male make the same statement?!?!!? That would be insane! There's no need for a white male to make the statement since federal judges are mostly white males and what rich experience of life as a poor minority can they point to anyway? Even the typical white female judge has probably not grown up in a ghetto or experienced prejudice to the extent of other minorities (beyond what she gets from her male colleagues).

              If you bring experience to a position that the typical holder of that position does not have, why can't you point that out? If the court had 7 Latina judges, along with one other minority male, then a while male candidate could state that he had some life experience that they did not have which would benefit his judgments...if such experience existed and was relevant to some types of court cases...and NOT be accused of racism. At least, not be so accused by me. Dispute this if you can!!!!!!! Neocons are purposely obtuse when it comes to racism. That 13th amendment still grates on them.
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            • Author by carlileb5935 (May 28, 2009 9:44 pm ET)
              1  
              mags,
              I have read them in context and I am not convinced about the "making policy" comment.



              She was referring to race and gender issues that reach a court. This "context" is being ignored by most of the media (except MMFA) and they are actually making it worse for Sotomayor, because they STILL make it sound like she sees ethnicity and gender as a general privileged position.

              But that's not what she meant at all. She was talking about some singular issues, and only sometimes. She was not extolling one experience over another as a matter of advantage.

              In other words, her defenders are not adequately rebutting her critics. If you read her speech and consider the location and the event, the context becomes clear.
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            • Author by Brabantio (May 29, 2009 12:41 am ET)
              3  
              "Critics are correct that if a white male said the same thing, he'd be automatically disqualified from consideration, so I think there is a double standard there."

              No, that is logically bankrupt. You can't switch around terms when the dynamics are wildly different. My favorite example is the suggestion that "black power" racist because "well, what if you said 'white power' instead?" The two don't have the same amount of control to begin with. So "black power" means to establish equality, which is fair, while "white power" means to preserve control, which is racist.

              In this case, there is very little unfair discrimination leveled against white men, so it makes absolutely no sense to try to claim that you can switch the quote around so that white men have a better perspective on discrimination issues because of their personal experiences. The dynamics between the two groups are worlds apart.
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      • Author by evenhanded23 (May 28, 2009 6:05 pm ET)
        1  
        As a white liberal scientist, my reply is, "Get your plane ticket or get on a boat and bon voyage." Oh, and the belief that only conservative whites invented everything is more evidence of your extreme bias. Good riddance.
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        • Author by carlileb5935 (May 29, 2009 6:09 pm ET)
             
          I think MMFA removed this original posting-- (the guy made an inflammatory claim that conservative white people should all move back to Europe with all their inventions, and then ha ha.)
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      • Author by friedbergboy1422 (May 28, 2009 6:31 pm ET)
        1  
        How do you know these things were invented by people who consider themselves conservatives?
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      • Author by eweston8542983 (May 28, 2009 7:10 pm ET)
        2  
        Don't forget to pack your Ayn Rand collection.
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        • Author by carlileb5935 (May 28, 2009 9:45 pm ET)
             
          Mein Kampf, too. I don't think you can buy it much over there any more.
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      • Author by wwittman (May 29, 2009 12:27 am ET)
        2  
        Europe.

        You mean the place Conservatives say they are afraid America will become?

        Have a nice trip.
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    • Author by mediascope (May 29, 2009 5:58 pm ET)
         
      The conservative objections to Sotomayor have nothing to do with the facts, her words, or the Judge herself. The Republican party is in complete disarray, rudderless, reeling from its losses, and in dire financial straits. It isn't about the nominee. All of the conservative yack-show bloviating and feigned horror about Judge Sotomayor is merely for the purpose of energizing opposition to all things Obama and -- more importantly -- raising cash. It's disingenuous and pathetic. To argue about the faults in their logic, perception, or interpretation only hands them more publicity -- just what they're after because it's exactly what they need to raise money from the Lim-boggled for their other battles.

      Unfortunately the press is not doing it's job of reporting the facts, only reporting the argument. Hostility makes for better entertainment, and that's the industry the press seems to think it's in.
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    • Author by mfee20792370 (May 30, 2009 10:18 am ET)
         
      The entire point is being missed by both sides in this Latina woman V/S White Male statement. According to MM she said "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life,"
      This is where you seperate Activist Judges from non Activist Judges. Activist Judges use their life experience to try to fix a situation they feel needs to be fixed or lets it influence their decisions which by the way is NOT the job of the Supreme Court whereas a non activist judge takes in question laws and court decisions compares them to the "What the Constitution ACTUALLY SAYS" and decides if the law should stand.
      The thing I do not like is she makes it out to seem that lived her entire life in poverty in NY when in fact she lived a large part of an upper middle class life while attending private schools.
      With all the problems America has right now the last thing we need is the Supreme Court being the real power. as all of you should know, with the Supreme Court there is no checks and balances. The possibility of abuse in the Court is well beyond any other branch of Government as they answer only to themselves. unlike the rest of our Government who must face the people every few years.
      I want a judge who has read the Constitution, Understands the Constitution was written to be understood by everyone from farm boy to lawyer, and who will not read into the Constitution words, phrases, or meanings that are not contained within the actual words of the document.
      Whether you call that person a Progressive, Liberal, or right wing extremist I do not care. The Constitution is a very simple document that has through the years become complicated by those who want to advance their personal agenda
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