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Media figures ignore facts to claim unemployment rate proves stimulus is "failing"

June 09, 2009 6:04 pm ET

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SUMMARY: Numerous media figures have advanced the attack that because the current unemployment rate is higher than initial administration predictions, in the words of Newt Gingrich, Obama's "policies are failing." But supporters of a stimulus bill had warned before it was passed that it would not result in an immediate decrease in unemployment.

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Since President Obama announced a proposal to accelerate economic recovery efforts and create or save 600,000 jobs in the next 100 days, several media figures have advanced the attack that because the current unemployment rate is higher than initial administration predictions, in the words of Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich, Obama's "policies are failing." But supporters of a stimulus package, including the administration, had warned before the stimulus bill was passed that while they expected the bill to speed economic recovery and lessen the impact of the recession, unemployment would continue to rise in the short term.

Moreover, the claim that higher-than-expected unemployment rates mean that the stimulus plan is failing is undermined by the fact that administration projections in January were made without fourth-quarter 2008 GDP results, which were not yet available. In a June 8 press briefing, White House economic adviser Jared Bernstein stated: "[W]hen we made our initial estimates, that was before we had fourth-quarter results on GDP, which we later found out was contracting on an annual rate of 6 percent, far worse than we expected at that time." Bernstein also said at the briefing that the unemployment rate will still be lower than it would have been had the bill not passed.

Both the administration and economists asserted before the stimulus bill passed that, even with the bill, conditions would likely worsen before they improved. In a February 13 press briefing, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said: "The president's confident that this is a plan that will save or create those jobs, but obviously I don't think there's any doubt that with the simple passage of this plan, the bad news isn't going to be over. I think there will -- there are going to be continued hard times and it's going to take a while to get out of this mess, because it took us a while regrettably to get into it." The New York Times reported on January 9:

Economists fell over themselves in describing the dire nature of the jobs report, which they said was alarming confirmation that the economy was in the midst of a sharp contraction in which consumer spending and business investment bordered on free fall. Many say that the economy contracted in the fourth quarter at a 5 or 6 percent annual rate and that steep contraction will continue at least through the first quarter, letting up only if Congress approves a sizable stimulus, one that kicks in soon and is at least as big as the $775 billion that the Obama camp has proposed.

''It will add massively to the budget deficit,'' said Stuart G. Hoffman, chief economist at the PNC Financial Services Group in Pittsburgh, who counts himself as an advocate of balanced budgets. ''But I am not against running deficits in these circumstances, not with so many people losing their jobs.''

Mr. Hoffman expects the unemployment rate, which jumped to 7.2 percent last month from 6.8 percent in November, to rise to 8.5 percent by July and plateau there for the rest of the year.

Others are less sanguine. They see 9 or 10 percent unemployment by early next year, and a jobless recovery that continues for about six months even after the economy ceases to contract.

By comparison, the unemployment rate reached 10.8 percent in the 1981-1982 recession, its highest level since World War II. In those years, unemployment and economic growth rose and fell more or less in tandem. But in the early 1990s that changed. In the 1990-1991 recession and again after the 2001 recession, employers continued to shed jobs for months. In the case of the 2001 recession, employment did not return to its prerecession level for four years.

''Even with the help of a stimulus,'' said David A. Levy, chairman of the Jerome Levy Forecasting Center, ''the unemployment rate is going to keep rising for the rest of the year, or longer.''

Indeed, New York Times columnist and Nobel laureate Paul Krugman noted in a January 27 blog post:

It's not a problem if some or even most of the stimulus arrives after the official recession, as determined by the NBER [National Bureau of Economic Research], is over. Why? Because in modern recessions, unemployment keeps rising long after the NBER has determined, based on things like industrial production, that the recession proper is over. You can see that the need for stimulus doesn't end with the recession by the simple fact that in each of the last two recessions the Fed continued to cut interest rates long after the official cycle trough. if it's good enough for the Fed, it's good enough for fiscal policy.

Krugman, who argued for a larger stimulus, further noted in his February 20 New York Times column that participants at the Federal Reserve's open market committee "anticipated that unemployment would remain substantially above its longer-run sustainable rate at the end of 2011, even absent further economic shocks," and that "the Obama administration is taking action to help the economy, but it's trying to mitigate the slump, not end it. The stimulus bill, on the administration's own estimates, will limit the rise in unemployment but fall far short of restoring full employment."

Media figures citing the unemployment figures as evidence that the stimulus is not working include:

  • During the June 8 edition of Fox News' Special Report, senior political analyst Brit Hume claimed that "[t]he stimulus is not working," and that the Obama administration "made some extravagant predictions about the effect of their stimulus spend-fest, claiming it would keep the unemployment rate from ever getting above 8 percent as was noted earlier. It is now nearly 9 and a half percent and climbing." During a subsequent discussion, host Bret Baier asserted, "They projected that unemployment was not going to go above 8 percent. Now it's at 9.4 percent, and it looks like it's going even higher." Syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer later claimed, "Now, apart from the fictional 8 percent, which as you indicated was the number the administration had said was unemployment that he we would hit if we did not have this package -- and of course we're already at 9 and a half percent and rising -- is the idea that we talked about a little earlier about the saved and created jobs."
  • During the June 8 edition of Fox News' Hannity, host Sean Hannity claimed, "Well, to get the American people to embrace the stimulus package, they said at the worse we'd have unemployment at 8 percent, but if we didn't implement it, it would be at 9 percent. Well, now we went from 8-point -- what, 8.9 percent to 9.4." Fox Business correspondent Tracy Byrnes subsequently stated, "And the worst is, the majority of the jobs will be lost in the first half of the year so you're going to see a lot of unemployed people by the end of June, basically, in this country, so nothing is working."
  • During the June 9 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends, Gingrich claimed, "Look, the president is desperately trying to spin a bad story, and the weakest White House press corps in modern times is letting him get away with it. The fact is the Obama administration promised that if the stimulus package was passed without having been read so that they had the money immediately, that we would peak at 8 percent unemployment. Well, we're already past that; we're at 9.4 percent. There's a very grave danger it's going to go above 10 percent. And the administration, of course, doesn't want to admit that their policies are failing, even though we have objective evidence that their policies are failing."

In addition, during the June 8 edition of CBS' Evening News with Katie Couric, CBS News chief White House correspondent Chip Reid asserted of the administration's proposal to create 600,000 jobs in the next 100 days, "Some congressional Republicans say it's yet another rosy prediction from an administration that said unemployment would level off at 8 percent. It's now 9.4 percent. Since the stimulus was signed, the economy has lost 1.5 million jobs." After then airing Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX) stating, "The administration has a failing plan, and so they want to do it in -- with greater speed. I mean, that's not a recipe for success," Reid stated, "A top administration official today said that despite all that government spending to create jobs, the White House believes the unemployment rate is going to continue to go up even higher than the sky-high 9.4 percent that it is now." Reid did not report either that economists had projected rising unemployment in the short term even with a stimulus package or that the administration said that it lacked fourth-quarter results when it made its projections in January.

Also, a June 9 FoxNation.com graphic asked, "Why isn't the stimulus working?"

From the June 9 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:

GRETCHEN CARLSON (co-host): So I'm looking at these figures, and here are the hardcore numbers that I can come up with: 9.4 percent unemployment, 1.6 million jobs lost. Those are the hard facts. Can you quantify jobs that have been saved, as the president claims you can?

GINGRICH: Look, the president is desperately trying to spin a bad story, and the weakest White House press corps in modern times is letting him get away with it. The fact is the Obama administration promised that if the stimulus package was passed without having been read so that they had the money immediately, that we would peak at 8 percent unemployment. Well, we're already past that; we're at 9.4 percent. There's a very grave danger it's going to go above 10 percent. And the administration, of course, doesn't want to admit that their policies are failing, even though we have objective evidence that their policies are failing.

CARLSON: So the former deputy White House spokesperson, Tony Fratto -- I know that you alluded to him when we interviewed you a few days ago -- but he says that this number of saved jobs is pure fiction. Is there a way to quantify it?

GINGRICH: No. I think you'd have to say, what was the trajectory of the economy? Did the trajectory change for the better? Then you could say there was a difference. The challenge for the president -- and I'm really amazed that nobody at the White House press corps has asked this question, since they promised us that it would peak at 8 percent unemployment, and it's now at 9.4 percent -- higher, substantially higher, almost 20 percent higher than he said it would be -- why are they not admitting that their policy hasn't succeeded at the rate they hoped it would? I just find it amazing that their budget is already blown to pieces because their budget only anticipated 8 percent unemployment. They're going to have less revenue and more federal spending on people who are unemployed. It's clear that their budget is in shambles, and yet the president's out trying to spin this, rather than deal with it as a problem.

From the June 8 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Bret Baier:

HUME: Hi, Bret. President Obama's order to his Cabinet secretaries today to spend that stimulus money faster was an acknowledgement of reality: The stimulus is not working.

The complaint against government spending as an antidote to a recession is that by the time the money finally gets spent, the recession is usually over. As of now, only 44 billion of the $787 billion in stimulus cash has actually gone out. No wonder the president wants the money spent faster.

The other problem Mr. Obama faces is that unemployment historically takes a lot longer to improve than the economy itself. That's because companies are reluctant to lay off people until things get really bad, and are also hesitant to hire them back until things get really good again. Unfortunately for Mr. Obama, he and his team made some extravagant predictions about the effect of their stimulus spend-fest, claiming it would keep the unemployment rate from ever getting above 8 percent as was noted earlier. It is now nearly 9 and a half percent and climbing.

And make no mistake about it: The most sensitive economic indicator in political terms is always the unemployment rate. People sometimes don't feel good about the economy when the unemployment rate is low, but they never feel good about it when it is high. At the current pace, it is hard to imagine it will not continue to climb for some time, and there's a congressional election next year. Hence, the administration's need for speed -- Bret.

[...]

BAIER: Well, some called it the "re-launch" today of the stimulus package. The White House assembling the Cabinet there. The president speaking in front of two flat-panel TV's with an elaborate presentation about the stimulus projects that they have ongoing in the second 100 days of their administration, saying 600,000 jobs are expected to be saved or created, among those, as you heard, some summer jobs, 125,000.

What about all of the math here? Let's bring in the panel -- Steve Hayes, senior writer for The Weekly Standard; Juan Williams, news analyst for National Public Radio; and syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer -- Steve?

HAYES: Well, remember back when the White House was pressing especially hard for passage of the stimulus bill? We heard that if the stimulus weren't passed and weren't passed quickly, we would be on the verge of economic collapse, catastrophe. They refused even to give members of Congress 48 hours to read the bill.

And I think the most interesting number in light of that little bit of history that we have seen come out in the past week is that they spent only 5 and a half percent of this vast sum, $787 billion. What were they doing? Why is it that we can only spend that little amount of money and yet they're taking credit for having created all these jobs?

BAIER: Or saved them.

HAYES: Or saved. Or saved. Now, there's a disconnect there. And I think what's interesting now looking forward is that they're talking about creating -- or projecting creating 600,000 new jobs by the end of this next 100 days. And as a Republican aide pointed out to me today, how is it that they can say with such certainty that they're going to create the 600,000 new jobs, but they haven't been able to project how much money will be spent in the next 100 days? That's something that they have full control of, how much money the federal government actually is going to disburse over the next 100 days.

They can't tell us that number, but they can tell us how many jobs will be created by spending that amount of money. I think it sounds political.

BAIER: Juan, this is a tough story for this administration to tell. They projected that unemployment was not going to go above 8 percent. Now it's at 9.4 percent, and it looks like it's going even higher. This created-or-saved job number seems a little seems soft, doesn't it?

WILLIAMS: It is soft. I don't think anybody would argue that it's a hard and fast number. And it's a function of the fact that if you say you saved a job, there's no way to prove it. There's no way to say, "Here is a job we specifically saved." President Obama said today in response to his critics, let them go out there and talk to people who have been called back to work or someone who has had a job saved. But, again, how are you going to do it? It is all anecdotal at this point, Bret.

So what we're dealing with here, I think, is a soft spot. I think of it as an Achilles' heel for the Obama administration, and you can see it in the poll numbers where if there is one area where the administration gets low marks, or President Obama personally gets low marks, it's in his handling of the economy. Mitch McConnell, though, the Republican leader in the Senate, said today, he said, you know, if it's a matter of recovery from the recession, he thinks the economy can do it on its own. And why did we need this spending, because the economy seems to be ginning back up?

Now, I will say this in defense of President Obama: If you look at the last month's unemployment numbers, there has been a decline in the rate of job loss in the last month. And he's talking, also, about in these coming months helping young people who, of course, in a recessionary market are less likely to get summer jobs. So he sees some of this money going in and helping those young people stay afloat during this difficult time. Will the American people buy it? I don't know. And, of course, it plays big in terms of how long the American people have patience with him on the economy.

BAIER: And before you weigh in there, Charles, of the 600,000, the 125,000 summer jobs are counted in there.

WILLIAMS: Counted as part of the 600,000.

BAIER: Of course, they will be going away --

WILLIAMS: In the fall.

BAIER: -- when the summer is over. OK -- Charles?

KRAUTHAMMER: This is a mathematical fantasia. Apart from the distortion introduced into the economy by taking stimulus money from the general fund of taxation and distributing it to favored constituencies like teachers' unions, government workers, especially in blue states and swing states, is the damage the administration is doing to economics itself. I mean, economics is the one social science that we imagine has real numbers, hard numbers that you can actually look at and believe.

Now, apart from the fictional 8 percent, which as you indicated was the number the administration had said was unemployment that he we would hit if we did not have this package -- and of course we're already at 9 and a half percent and rising -- is the idea that we talked about a little earlier about the saved and created jobs. That is a complete invention. That's based on nothing. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that you can't measure a saved job. And yet the president's throwing out precise numbers of how many are saved or created.

As he said, 150,000 already created or saved, and this absurd prediction of 600,000 in the next 100 days. Whenever you hear "saved or created," you are hearing a fiction. It's an attempt to slap a number onto something as a way of making something appear empirical which is, at best, aspirational and, at worst, cynical. The only hardened number in any of this is the trillion or so that will be created in real debt, real bonds held by real governments with numbers on them that we are going to have to repay. That is not a fictional number. It is a real one, and it's already raising our interest rates, and it could end up in hyperinflation.

From the June 8 edition of Fox News' Hannity:

HANNITY: And tonight in "Your America": As the unemployment rate continues to soar, President Obama convened a Cabinet meeting today and announced plans to ramp up the implementation of his economic stimulus plan over the summer. But is spending more of your hard-earned money the answer?

Joining me now is Stuart Varney and Tracy Byrnes, both of the Fox Business Network. Now, is this an admission by -- you know, accelerating the spending? Is this an admission, Stuart, that --

VARNEY: In my opinion, yes, it is.

HANNITY: -- that they --

VARNEY: The stimulus plan is not working. First and foremost, the stimulus plan was never an economic policy plan. It was a political document --

HANNITY: Yeah.

VARNEY: -- designed to ensure federal control over the states. I mean, there's no job creation in this stimulus plan. I won't keep you long, but listen to this: $40 billion aid to schools, $87 billion Medicaid assistance, $17 billion student aid, $27 million jobless benefits. Where are the jobs in that?

[...]

HANNITY: In our next segment, we're actually going to show the audience -- guys, hang in there, because we're going to show this in our next segment, what the predictions of the Obama administration were when they were using all these fear tactics --

VARNEY: Fantasy.

HANNITY: Well, to get the American people to embrace the stimulus package, they said at the worse we'd have unemployment at 8 percent, but if we didn't implement it, it would be at 9 percent. Well, now we went from 8-point -- what, 8.9 percent to 9.4.

BYRNES: And we will probably hit 10. Hands down, we'll hit 10 before the end of the year.

HANNITY: That's frightening.

BYRNES: And the worst is, the majority of the jobs will be lost in the first half of the year so you're going to see a lot of unemployed people by the end of June, basically, in this country, so nothing is working. And the best in that stimulus breakdown, there's an $8 billion line of "other."

[...]

BOB BECKEL (Democratic strategist): That stimulus bill will work. They talked about the money they gave to the banks. You know, the --

KAREN HANRETTY (Republican strategist): When is it going to work?

BECKEL: The banks are going to pay back -- the big six banks are paying back money, and the United States government and taxpayers are going to make money because they're paying interest on it.

HANRETTY: When is the stimulus bill going to work? Because it's not working now. Unemployment numbers continue to go up, the stimulus money is not going to the states with the highest unemployment --

BECKEL: Unemployment numbers went up a lot less than people thought they were going to go up.

LOU HOLTZ (former football coach): Hey, Bob, but you know, sometimes you try to solve the immediate problem and you jeopardize your long-range goals. Yes, we can solve the immediate problem with labor, et cetera, but, boy, it jeopardizes the children and the grandchildren of the future. How do you pay the interest on a couple trillion dollars?

From the June 8 edition of CBS's Evening News with Katie Couric:

[begin video clip]

REID: The president today took credit for keeping the economy out of a tailspin, but said he's still not satisfied with the pace of the recovery.

OBAMA: Now we're in a position to really accelerate.

REID: He said the stimulus -- which he claims created 150,000 jobs in the first 100 days -- will create four times that number of jobs in the second 100 days. There was even a PowerPoint presentation in the briefing room by a White House economist, with maps intended to show that job-creating projects are sprouting up all across the nation.

The goal is to get as much money as possible into shovel-ready projects fast. For example, the White House says over the next 100 days, work will begin on more than 1,500 highway projects and 98 airports; 5,000 police officers will be hired or protected from layoffs; 125,000 young people will get summer jobs; and work will begin on improvements in the national parks, from Yellowstone to the Statue of Liberty. Administration officials say they used a tried-and-tested formula for predicting the number of jobs, but critics say it's nothing more than guesswork, all smoke and mirrors.

PETER MORICI (economist, University of Maryland): Instead of talking about 600,000 saved or created jobs, tell us how many jobs you're actually creating, and point to them. Show me the guy with the shovel in his hands.

REID: Some congressional Republicans say it's yet another rosy prediction from an administration that said unemployment would level off at 8 percent. It's now 9.4 percent. Since the stimulus was signed, the economy has lost 1.5 million jobs.

REP. JEB HENSARLING (R-TX): The administration has a failing plan, and so they want to do it in -- with greater speed. I mean, that's not a recipe for success.

[end video clip]

REID: A top administration official today said that despite all that government spending to create jobs, the White House believes the unemployment rate is going to continue to go up even higher than the sky-high 9.4 percent that it is now. Katie.

COURIC: Chip Reid reporting from the White House tonight. Thank you, Chip.

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by shaggles (June 09, 2009 6:49 pm ET)
      4  
      I remember Obama saying things would get worse before they got better and everybody jumping on him for being too negative. Actually I think it was only his supporters who said he was being negative. His detractors said he was anti-American.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by anotheramerican (June 09, 2009 8:08 pm ET)
      1 8
      For the Obama Administration to so confidently predict a lower unemployment rate while grossly underestimating the contraction in the economy shows that they have no clue as to what is happening. They have no clue as to the extent of the recession and their "stimulus" plan is a complete failure so far with unemployment far above their guesses earlier this year.

      It is evident that the Obama job "saving" numbers are complete fiction. Nobody can tell how many jobs were saved. To say 150,000 jobs were saved when unemployment went up 1.5 million is simply laughable. Newt has it right again. The Obama economic policy is a failure. Because of this, the Obama budget is a complete failure. The teleprompter can't hide the facts. Deficits will be massively higher than the heretofore unprecedented deficits forcasted by Obama and company!

      And to think we haven't even gotten to the inflationary stage that will eat up real income of every American... which will hurt poor people the most.

      The fact is that spending money you haven't got doesn't work for individuals and it is hurting the economy rather than helping it.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by BillJ-MN (June 09, 2009 9:21 pm ET)
        4  
        When the economy recovers and the worst we experience falls far short of your dire predictions, what are the chances that you will give any credit to the stimulus measures? I've got a prediction of my own. You will only affix blame and never give credit to this administration. I feel very safe with that prediction.

        The fact is that spending money you haven't got doesn't work for individuals and it is hurting the economy rather than helping it. - anotheramerican

        The fact is virtually every major business venture spends money it hasn't got. It's called financing. It can also apply to national economies.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by bruce1ace (June 09, 2009 9:56 pm ET)
          1 1
          When banks repay stimulus money because they don't like the terms laid out by the government, it makes one wonder if they needed the money in the first place.

          Even Obama is calling for a cut in the deficit spending. A cut he will have to drag his own Congress kicking and screaming to comply. Good luck with that.

          This stuff is ridiculous no matter which party is doing it. Republicans are no better in that regard.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (June 10, 2009 11:51 am ET)
            2  
            There's nothing to wonder about. The credit market dried up. It needed an infusion of capital. It was meant to be short term.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by shaggles (June 10, 2009 12:14 pm ET)
            1  
            I guarantee you many banks did NOT need the TARP money. I work for a large national bank that took TARP money and we were told by the CEO himself that we were absolutely sound and taking the money because there were so few restrictions and it was the cheapest capital available.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by my4cents (June 09, 2009 10:03 pm ET)
        2  
        Newt 2012? What happened to Newt 2008?
        Right. He was clueless in 2008, preaching to the choir, as he will be in 2012.
        "The fact is that spending money you haven't got doesn't work for individuals and it is hurting the economy rather than helping it."
        Except when we wage wars borrowing money from Commie countries? Where were you then?
        And what happened to Cheney's "Reagan proved deficits do not matter"?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by captfoster2 (June 09, 2009 10:13 pm ET)
        2  
        Newt has it right again. The Obama economic policy is a failure. Because of this, the Obama budget is a complete failure.

        For someone (Newt) being so right... he sure has a bright political future ahead of him... huh!

        What was that? He resigned in disgrace and left public office because he was as useless as we all knew him to be.

        AA,

        I suppose you think that Newt's little 'Contract On America' was a resounding victory for We The 'hypothetical' little People?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by pete592 (June 10, 2009 12:40 am ET)
        5  
        Since when do right-wingers give a **** about poor people?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 10, 2009 8:38 am ET)
        2  
        Wrong sir, wrong! You are making the absurd assumption that unemployment would be no WORSE than it is now if the gov't had done nothing. That flies in the face of history, economic theory and common sense. What's more, deficit spending in a recession is no vice. EVERY ppresdient (since Hoover) has known this, and everyone has done it... EXCEPT CLINTON. Who (1) never had a recession and (2) relized that in a growth period you should try to balance the budget. But Bush had years of growth, and never even TRIED to balance the budget in those years, so he was evenr more screwed when the recession hit. As for it "not being good of the economy"? GOV'T SPENDING ALWAYS HELPS THE ECONOMY. PERIOD. That's a FACT and if you can't grasp that, you should take an economics course before revealing your ignorance. The economy will only get better. FOur years from now, your complaints (like your party, god willing) will be a distant hollow memory.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (June 10, 2009 4:51 pm ET)
            2
          Hahaha.... At best Government spending is simply taking money from the people who earn it and spending it elsewhere.

          Just how much of this stimulus money has gone into job creation?

          We are in agreement over Bush's deficit spending. He apparently thought spending like a Democrat would make him popular with the Dems.

          You also leave out the fact that the spending is on borrowed money. You need to look at both sides of the spending equation.

          Time will tell. Obama and the Dems think they can spend money they don't have into a recovery. Too bad we'll have to pay, as will our children, for their failed experiment.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by LuvLuLu (June 10, 2009 10:41 pm ET)
               
            Yes. Taking money from people who would save it, and giving it to people who will spend it - every dollar that gets spent in a community goes around that community about 7 times. Government spending is stimulative. Our economy needed stimulus. People were afraid, banks didn't have credit, people were losing their jobs or in fear of losing their jobs, and the economy had to be jump-started by the government. There wasn't another choice!

            Most of the stimulus money is going to - surprise - stimulate the economy! Some of it will help create an equivalent number of jobs to wht will be lost because of the recession.

            We know that the spending is being done with borrowed money. Do you think, really think, that we're as ignorant as you are? We understand that given our druthers, we wouldn't be supporting even more deficit spending. But we don't have a choice.

            Obama has been spending in an absolutely necessary way. The reason it's so painful? Because Bush spent in such an unnecessary way, giving back tax cuts instead of cutting the deficit and the national debt, waging an unnecessary war, ignoring our infrastructure, postponing restructuring health care in our nation, etc.

            Yes, this is going to cost our children. The costs to your children and mine would have been much greater if we hadn't had the stimulus plan!!! Why do you hate our kids so much that you'd reject the best option in favor of a worse option just so that the deficit today didn't rise as much? Why do you hate our kids?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 11, 2009 8:28 am ET)
               
            AA, you are a perfect example of the nonsense thinking of magical economics. EARN IT. Dude: You can't EARN $#!t if you can't sell your goods ro services. And you can't do THAT unless people have incomes to buy stuff with. And when the "free market" fails to provide that you have two options: Let the whole system collapse (which is what you would do, apparently. Nice plan Poindexter) and this will hit the rich even harder that everyone else - they have more to lose after all - or you can spend some money; money that goes through EVERYONE'S hands before (eventually) finding itself right back in the bank accoutns of the rich (it always does, that's why their rich!) If you don't recognize the inportance of both gov't and con sumer spendign in keeping the economy growing the, YOU. ARE. AN. IDIOT. Hard work alone doesn't get you money, numbnuts. There has to be a consumer somehwere buying it. So unless you like working for free, just sit back, STFU and reap the benefits, would you? The rest of us would like our paychacks to keep getting signed.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 11, 2009 8:29 am ET)
               
            Just how much of this stimulus money has gone into job creation?

            Relative to the number of jobs we'd have left witout the stimulus?

            EVERY PENNY.

            Every penny that's SPENT anyway.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by hurricaneyankee52983 (June 11, 2009 12:25 pm ET)
               
            AA, you really need to get a grip. All you do is parrot all the FAR RIGHT WING media talking heads.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by eddiebear2 (June 10, 2009 8:54 am ET)
        1  
        Also, I loved the Democrat Party spin that we should ignore the rising unemployment rate, but focus on the decrease in weekly benefits seekers. This is in contrast to the daily mocking of a "jobless recovery" in 2002-4
        http://michaelscomments.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/correction-to-the-may-unemployment-chart/
        Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (June 11, 2009 3:08 pm ET)
             
          There is no such thing as a Democrat party. I cant beleive how dumb you RepubliSCUM are.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by achrispage6992 (June 10, 2009 3:16 pm ET)
           
        "They have no clue as to the extent of the recession and their "stimulus" plan is a complete failure so far with unemployment far above their guesses earlier this year."

        It's these kind of statements that absolutely drive me nuts. Did you not read the d@mn research MMFA done or the NY Times piece sir? How can you blatantly make such a condemntation when contradictory evidence sits right in front of you? Right in front of you!

        Furthermore, I am willing to bet that 4 1/2 months into the Reagan administration when things were still terrible you never, ever, indicated that Reagan's economic plan has already failed. Did you sir?

        Show me where Obama or any Obama administration official indicated that he would have everything fixed up in a couple of months. In fact, he has said over and over and over that recovery was going to take time. You and the idiots over at Fox seem to conveniently ignore that fact and assume that you can go around making everyone believe that since Obama hasn't fixed things in only 4 1/2 months his plan is a failure. Seriously AA, I thought you were smarter than that.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by LuvLuLu (June 10, 2009 4:45 pm ET)
           
        They actually made the 8% forecast in mid January, BEFORE Obama was inaugurated, before they had gotten numbers from the last quarter of 2008. Once they got those numbers, they changed their forecast. That's the way economic predictions go. There's nothing flawed with that scenario.

        Leave it up to you, AA, to lay blame where it doesn't belong.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (June 10, 2009 4:56 pm ET)
            1
          They sold it based on the 8% numbers. I have to laugh that you can defend such poor forecasting and such extravagant and outrageous deficit spending as nothing "flawed".
          Report Abuse
          • Author by LuvLuLu (June 10, 2009 10:44 pm ET)
               
            No, they didn't. That's a lie. And it wasn't poor forecasting. It was forecasting based upon the numbers they have available.

            There hasn't been any extravagent or outrageous deficit spending by Obama. If he did that, I would object. I objected repeatedly when Bush did it.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by captfoster2 (June 09, 2009 10:08 pm ET)
      1  
      I'm going to go out on a very short limb here...

      But other than the brainless 'must allow myself to be lead by my nose' crowd that watches Fox or listens to right-wing radio...

      Who actually believes this crappy worthless junk journalism?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (June 10, 2009 2:24 am ET)
           
        Nobody, Capt. F, but the 20(?)%ers who do believe it, believe it unquestioningly, and ferociously.

        Look at Anutteramericans post above. It's a veritable summary of the Rush Limbaugh show, showing the same ignorance of the economy and blindness to reality, but I'm sure he posted it thinking he was making some sort of rational analysis.

        They may be a fringe minority, but the zombies made even the last election, one that should have been a blowout, relatively close.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by achrispage6992 (June 10, 2009 6:17 pm ET)
          1  
          exactly. And what's worse is that he comes here and actually tries to make the same ridiculous argument Hannity made knowing that MMFA debunked the argument at the top of the page. Why would a person continue to try to make an argument that has been debunked right in front of their face?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (June 10, 2009 8:26 pm ET)
               
            Why would a person continue to try to make an argument that has been debunked right in front of their face?

            Hey, AChris, haven't seen you around lately.I really can't answer your question. I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'd guess it just comes with fanaticism mixed with a lack of thinking skills.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by skiploader1111 (June 10, 2009 3:04 am ET)
         
      What Republicans won't tell us in these clips is that if they were in charge right now, they would use the crisis as an excuse to be able to cut unemployment benefits, cut schools, cut medicare, cut HUD, cut regulations.

      Cut taxes in the good times, cut welfare in the bad times until there is no government left. As Grover Norquist once said, "I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
      Report Abuse
    • Author by BillJ-MN (June 10, 2009 7:48 am ET)
      1  
      C'mon, it's been fewer than four months since the stimulus bill passed Congress and was signed. No rational person could expect to be seeing anything other than psychological impact in that amount of time. Even when true economic impact becomes noticeable, it'll take even more time to improve the employment numbers. Employment has always been a lagging factor in any economic recovery.

      It's simply dishonest or idiotic to judge any stimulus effort on the basis of employment in its early stages.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by eddiebear2 (June 10, 2009 11:23 am ET)
          1
        I agree with you about the "lagging indicator" bit. But, I do want to know this:
        back in 2002-4, when the other side used the exact same line, were you agreeing with them there as well?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by BillJ-MN (June 10, 2009 12:19 pm ET)
             
          Who was using what exact line? I don't recall any stimulus bill at that time on which to have rendered judgment. I recall at that time that we went through a long period of extremely anemic job creation during a time that the republicans held up as economically strong. I don't see how that relates.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by eddiebear2 (June 10, 2009 12:42 pm ET)
               
            No, because when GOPers were using the "it's a lagging indicator", they were eoutinely criticized for that line.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by BillJ-MN (June 10, 2009 2:16 pm ET)
                 
              I don't recall that at all. Can you produce any instances of that criticism? What were the GOPers saying it was a lagging indicator of? For the couple of years before the 2004 election they were stating that we were riding along in a strong economy.

              I think you're comparing apples and oranges in your weak pursuit of some kind of hypocrisy.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by pezzimiztix (June 10, 2009 4:02 pm ET)
        1
      the intellectual dishonesty among liberals is astounding...

      first he says, if we don't act now - it will climb above 8%. he acted now and still it jumped above 9%. but then he said it will get worse before it gets better. it's interesting how the libs explain things in a fashion that totally exonerate obama from any wrong doing...
      just wonering when all the liberals will actually hold him accountable for his actions - because holding him accountable for things he has already said is a forgone conclusion.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (June 10, 2009 6:49 pm ET)
        1  
        I won't exonerate Obama. He watered down his own plan for no reason and he refuses to raise taxes on the rich in any meaningful way.

        So we'll have little bang and big deficits until he figures out that liberalism works.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by skiploader1111 (June 10, 2009 7:09 pm ET)
           
        Why should Obama be held accountable for a crisis that he didn't cause?

        Why aren't you angry at Bush and the Republicans when they had full control and being for deregulation (want video?)

        Obama should be applauded for the stimulus plan that is providing help to people and businesses. It gives more people a chance to weather out the recession if they are in dire straits and keeps America's basic institutions (education, medicare, etc.) in place.

        One day someone might explain to you that the basic institutions that many liberals are for and conservatives are against are institutions that CREATED the modern middle class in America (i.e. The New Deal)

        Report Abuse
        • Author by skiploader1111 (June 10, 2009 7:18 pm ET)
             
          Let me correct myself. The New Deal created the middle class and is responible for the Baby Boom. There was no middle class before. If you worked hard for a living before the Depression, you were poor, period.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (June 11, 2009 3:12 pm ET)
           
        The stupidity of conservatives is actually typical. This was already answered. If you cant read then hire a reasonably bright six year old to explain the posts to you. I love a free clown show as much as the next guy but you are just embarassing yourself
        Report Abuse
    • Author by hurricaneyankee52983 (June 11, 2009 12:20 pm ET)
         
      In my time, I have never given any credence to anything the NEWTSTER says.
      Report Abuse

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