Conservative media still promoting Obama birth certificate conspiracy theories
SUMMARY: Conservative media figures have continued to advance various versions of the discredited myth that Barack Obama has not produced a valid birth certificate, is not a natural-born U.S. citizen, and is not eligible to be president.
Throughout the past year, conservative media figures have advanced various versions of the discredited myth that Barack Obama has not produced a valid birth certificate, is not a natural-born U.S. citizen, and is not eligible to be president. For instance, as recently as June 10, Rush Limbaugh said, "Barack Obama has one thing in common with God. Do you know what it is? God does not have a birth certificate either. ... God does not have a birth certificate, and neither does Obama -- not that we've seen." And on the June 8 edition of his radio show, G. Gordon Liddy claimed Obama was "born" in Kenya.
Alleged Holocaust Memorial Museum shooter and white supremacist James W. von Brunn reportedly also was -- in the words of Talking Points Memo's Josh Marshall -- "apparently a 'birther,' one of these folks who claims that Barack Obama is not the legitimate president of the United States because he is not a natural born US citizen." The New York Daily News also reported this claim.
Rush Limbaugh
- From the October 23, 2008, edition of The Rush Limbaugh Show:
Who announces days in advance they're rushing to the side of a loved one who is deathly ill, but keeps campaigning in a race that's said to be over, only to go to the loved one's side days later? See, I think this is about something else. You know what's really percolating out there? And I've been laying low on this because it just -- it hasn't met the threshold to pass the smell test on this program. But this birth certificate business, this lawsuit that a guy named Phillip Berg filed in Philadelphia in August for Obama to produce his genuine birth certificate, and he still hasn't replied, he hasn't done so.
[...]
And this birth certificate business -- I'm just wondering if something's up. ... Let's say, for example, that somebody does come up with proof that Obama -- something's screwy with his birth certificate, and something's screwy about the fact that he's allegedly a natural citizen, American citizen but may not be, dual citizenship, born in Kenya, who knows, there's all kinds of stuff out -- so what? What's gonna happen this late in the campaign? Do you think, if it's proven, that they're gonna dump him? That's not gonna happen. But there's still -- these are just questions that I have."
Fox Nation
A May 28, 2009, headline on The Fox Nation website asked: "Should Obama Release Birth Certificate? Or Is This Old News?" From The Fox Nation:
The Fox Nation's birth certificate headline linked to a video of WorldNetDaily correspondent Les Kinsolving asking White House press secretary Robert Gibbs to "releas[e] a certified copy of his long-form birth certificate." In the video, Gibbs notes that Obama's birth certificate is available for anyone to view and that "this question in many ways continues to astound me."
Michael Savage
- From the October 8, 2008, edition of The Savage Nation:
He won't even produce a birth certificate. Don't you love that? Something as basic as Obama's birth certificate now is an issue. I mean, if he's got nothing to hide, show it to me. Doesn't exist. It does not exist, they can't find it in the Hawaii government. It's never been produced. The one that was produced is a forgery.
- From the October 9, 2008, edition of The Savage Nation:
Obama is an unknown man, may not be a citizen, surrounded by radicals, surrounded by terrorists, that we have no choice. ... I will never work for a man who has a birth certificate nobody can find. ... How is that possible, when he has no known birth certificate?... Mr. [Jerome] Corsi went over to Kenya to investigate his relatives in Kenya, and he was arrested by the Muslim leader of Kenya because Mr. Corsi uncovered the true birthplace, I believe, of Hussein Obama and the connections that exist between Barack Hussein Obama and this Muslim leader, and what this Muslim leader said he would do after this election...There are websites out there that have been filed in federal courts in Philadelphia where a Democrat attorney had to file a federal lawsuit to obtain a simple copy of this alias, Barack Hussein Obama's birth certificate. ... Especially since this person is not only a federal employee working in a federal agency as a senator but he's preparing under our Constitution which requires birth on U.S. soil, and instead of complying with his request, Barack Hussein Obama, or Hussein, sent his SA to Philadelphia to fight a simple request to show a valid birth certificate... And so, ladies and gentlemen, we do not even know where Hussein Obama was born, we cannot find a legal birth certificate for him.
- From the October 10, 2008, edition of The Savage Nation:
He could change the rules on that, since we don't know where he was born. His party won't produce his birth certificate. ... It doesn't matter that he doesn't have a birth certificate. It doesn't matter that he may not be an American citizen.
- From the October 22, 2008, edition of The Savage Nation:
There's some other reason that he's leaving the mainland of the United States in the midst of this toe-to-toe struggle right now, and it's got to do with his birth certificate. ...1-800-449 -- but please go to MichaelSavage.com and look at the alleged birth certificate. Look at it very carefully ... It's the birth certificate issue, you fools, you.
From the November 3, 2008, edition of The Savage Nation:
And, oh yes, our condolences to his grandmother who raised him, who he so bravely visited last week -- shockingly, out of nowhere, in the, in the last days of a campaign -- while the rumors of his birth certificate not being valid were circulating throughout the Internet. Shockingly, Obama goes to Hawaii, and again, not one of the empty skirts in the media asks him about his birth -- his birth certificate, the Kenyan relatives.
The Washington Times
- From a December 5, 2008, article on the Supreme Court's decision to hear a lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's "right to be President based on his citizenship at birth":
Mr. Obama tried to resolve questions over his citizenship during his campaign by circulating a copy of a "Certification of Live Birth" from the state of Hawaii showing he was born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu.
"It's clearly been altered," said Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg in published ads that he sponsored nationwide, including in The Washington Times. He filed one of the lawsuits to block Mr. Obama's presidency.
Mr. Berg claims there is a tape recording from Mr. Obama's paternal grandmother in Kenya saying she attended the birth of her grandson in Mombasa.
Mr. Berg also says Mr. Obama later enrolled as a student at an Indonesian school at a time only Indonesians could attend it. Mr. Obama's stepfather was Indonesian.
In October, a federal judge dismissed Mr. Berg's lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Philadelphia, saying Mr. Berg lacked standing.
Joseph Farah
- From the May 29, 2009, WorldNetDaily article, "Born in the USA? Birth certificate issue No. 1 at Fox News":
Barack Obama's elusive long-form birth certificate that would establish his eligibility to serve as president as a "natural born citizen" is the hottest discussion topic at the Fox News Channel's website.
[...]
The visibility of the Obama birth certificate issue has also been raised by a new national billboard campaign initiated by Joseph Farah, editor and chief executive officer of WND. Launched just over a week ago, the campaign has raised about $55,000 and begun erecting billboards that ask the question, "Where's the birth certificate?"
- From a June 3, 2009, WorldNetDaily column:
It's pretty incredible that we have a president who gets away with talking about "transparency and openness" when he himself refuses to disclose the most basic personal data -- including the only documentation that would establish whether he is constitutionally eligible to serve in the highest office in the land.
We need to see his birth certificate.
[...]
We need to see his passport records during the time he was living in Indonesia and traveling to Pakistan as a youth. Did he give up his U.S. citizenship? If not, how did he retain it? Or did he not have U.S. citizenship to begin with because he was never actually born in Hawaii?
Jerome Corsi
- From the August 15, 2008, edition of Fox & Friends:
Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?...The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it. ... It's a fake document that's on the website right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.
- From the September 17, 2008, edition of The G. Gordon Liddy Show:
It's a registry of birth. It's -- you know, you come into the office afterwards, and you register the birth. The birth certificate is issued by the hospital. It's not something you go in and request. And the -- this lawsuit that [Philip] Berg has filed in, I believe, Pennsylvania is arguing that the original, the birth certificate, is in Kenya, and Obama -- Obama's father and mother went back to Kenya before Obama was born, and evidently the pregnancy was so advanced that Ann Dunham was not allowed to return to the United States, and Obama was born in Kenya. That's the argument. And it would seem to be -- to have some credibility to it, because the Obama campaign refuses to release the original birth certificate. And why would that -- a birth certificate, you know, Mr. Liddy, should be a mundane document.
- From the October 9, 2008, edition of The Peter Boyles Show:
Well, the main issue on the birth certificate: If there's nothing to hide, why won't the Obama campaign release it? ... There's something on that birth certificate. You know, maybe Obama was born in Kenya; I don't know what it shows. But why hide a document that should be as transparent as your birth certificate? ... My gut reaction is that Obama was either born in Kenya, 'cause his mother came over prior to his birth and couldn't get back home before he was born. Because what's filed on his website appears to be a registration of birth not the document generated by the hospital when you're born.
- From the October 22, 2008, edition of The G. Gordon Liddy Show:
I'm headed out to Honolulu. ... And I'm going out to do what digging I can on the birth certificate. ... I think I'll accomplish something in Hawaii, too. Obama's headed out there, and I believe there's a court challenge that if Obama does not dodge, he's gonna be forced to produce a birth certificate, and there's gonna be something damaging on that birth certificate, because even at the eleventh hour, Obama refuses to show us the hospital-generated birth certificate when he was born.
G. Gordon Liddy
- From the August 26, 2008, edition of The G. Gordon Liddy Show:
And the second thing is that it is not a birth certificate. ... So, we still don't have a birth certificate for Obama...There are claims that he was actually born in Kenya. I have no way of proving that or disproving that, but it would seem to me that it being so important -- I mean, because if he was born in Kenya and not in Hawaii, then he's not eligible to become president. If it's so important an issue that the campaign, if they had a real birth certificate from Hawaii, the campaign would put it out, not rely on a phony thing Photoshopped by Daily Kos, you know. Why?
- From the September 15, 2008, edition of The G. Gordon Liddy Show:
I think there is a lawsuit that has been filed, but I don't know what -- you know, what progress it has or has not made, but the only thing that they've offered is -- and Obama hasn't offered it -- the Daily Kos, that left-wing blog, offered a Photoshopped -- a much-Photoshopped -- copy of a certificate of live birth, which is not something -- it's not a birth certificate. It simply states that so-and-so was born alive here in Hawaii. But the serial number on it is redacted, blanked out. And that's because some people have suggested that it was actually the Photoshopped version. ... And then there's others who say he was born, you know, in Kenya. And I don't have a birth certificate from Kenya to show that he was, but neither does he have a birth certificate to show that he was born in Hawaii, either.
- From the September 17, 2008, edition of The G. Gordon Liddy Show:
I'd like to talk about the, you know, the business of his birth. Now, the Daily Kos, which is a blog, a leftist blog, published a certificate of live birth purportedly from Hawaii. Giving a date but having the serial number redacted, blocked out. And, from what we're told, heavily Photoshopped. Can you go into that? It's not a birth certificate. It's something that is issued after there has been a birth and supposedly attests to the fact that, well, yes, there was a birth in the past, and it was on such and such a day, but it's not a birth certificate such as you and I have.
- From the June 8, 2009, edition of The G. Gordon Liddy Show: "Now, this is being done for a slum in Kenya, where of course our president was born."
Andrew Malcolm
- From a May 5, 2009, entry on the Los Angeles Times' Top of the Ticket blog:
According to the N.Y. Post today, those photos [taken of Air Force One in New York] have been classified and will not be released by the transparent Obama White House. Not really classified as in 'top secret' classified. But classified as in those are going in the file cabinet. Maybe mis-filed with the Obama birth certificate.
Mike Pintek
- From the August 11, 2008, edition of The War Room with Quinn & Rose:
I still keep wondering about his birthplace and his birth certificate. I'm still not convinced that he actually was born a natural-born citizen. ... But we may never be able to prove that either without a real, honest-to-God birth certificate. Maybe one does not exist. You know, the one that they post -- they posted doesn't -- that looks like a Photoshop deal. According to some people who know what they're talking about, who are experts on this, they say that the birth certificate that he's got on his website and has been posted to the Daily Kos and some other places, is -- it looks very much like a Photoshop deal and doesn't look legit. So what's he hiding?
Wesley Pruden
- From a August 26, 2008, Washington Times column:
Far worse, a summerlong controversy continues about when and where the senator was actually born, and whether the circumstances of his birth could cloud his eligibility to serve. The Obama campaign has been reluctant to produce a birth certificate.
Frank Gaffney Jr.
- From an October 14, 2008, Washington Times column:
Another question yet to be resolved is whether Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States, a prerequisite pursuant to the U.S. Constitution. There is evidence Mr. Obama was born in Kenya rather than, as he claims, Hawaii. There is also a registration document for a school in Indonesia where the would-be president studied for four years, on which he was identified not only as a Muslim but as an Indonesian. ... Curiously, Mr. Obama has, to date, failed to provide an authentic birth certificate which could clear up the matter.
Andy Martin
From a September 22, 2008, Contrarian Commentary column: "We have not seen a valid Obama birth certificate either."
Chris Baker
From the October 9, 2008, edition of The Chris Baker Show:
[W]hen you really start looking into this, there apparently has never been a real birth certificate presented. There's been a certificate, but it's not a birth certificate. And according to Philip Berg, Barack Obama was born in Kenya. ... Just get the damn birth certificate presented and let's move on with our lives.
Bob Newman
- From the August 18, 2008, edition of The Gunny Bob Show:
CALLER: I can't fathom this, how he hasn't had to produce a birth certificate.
NEWMAN: Well, you can see the fake one if you want; it's on my website --
CALLER: Right, yeah.
NEWMAN: -- you can also see the blank one. I have a blank one there. What you can do is, you can Photoshop it yourself; you just copy it, right-click on it, and then you copy it, and then you use your Photoshop, and you can doctor it up any way you want.
Rick Roberts
- From the October 8, 2008, edition of The Savage Nation:
There is some question, some question as to whether he's even a U.S. citizen and, sorry, that's something you kinda have to have to run for president. ... We'd get a week away from the presidency and all of a sudden we find out he's actually born in Kenya and then taken to Hawaii where a duplicate birth certificate was produced.
- From the October 9, 2008, edition of The Savage Nation:
First of all, the birth certificate issue. The birth certificate issue. You know the story goes his father moved to Kenya, his mother followed, she was pregnant with him, she didn't like the way Muslim men treated the women, she wanted to go back to Hawaii, she was too far along in her pregnancy, they said, "No, you can't fly." She had the baby in Kenya, then got on a plane with the child back to Hawaii and got a registry of birth. ... Show them the birth certificate and say, "OK, here's my birth certificate, get out of my face." Why hasn't it been produced? Why?
Jim Quinn
- From the June 15 edition of The War Room With Quinn & Rose:
Well, where's his birth certificate? We could have two illegitimate leaders.
- From the October 3, 2008, edition of The War Room With Quinn & Rose:
But any -- it would appear from this judgment by the -- from this court that the DNC and Barack Hussein Obama had lost -- not an appeal but a motion -- to dismiss the complaint from a Philip J. Berg, Esq., who wants a copy of Obama's citizenship papers and also his birth certificate -- which is a question that's been floating out there. ... And it looks like he may not be an American citizen, and it looks like nobody cares -- which is even more exciting.
Rose Tennent
- From the October 3, 2008, edition of The War Room With Quinn & Rose:
Now, you said there was also -- I think once you had talked about inconsistencies in terms of the accounts of his birth. There were reports that he was born at two separate hospitals -- one in Honolulu, one in Kenya. ...So, seriously, you have concerns about there being inconsistent reports of where he was born. ...Mr. Berg, though, can you really expect -- I mean, can't we, as citizens of this country -- people who are voting for the next president of the United States of America -- can we not expect to have an original or a copy of the original birth certificate of someone who is running for that position?
Brian Sussman
- From the December 15, 2008, edition of The Lee Rodgers Show:
Yeah, like if someone involved with the Electoral College says, "There's just one little issue. We're looking at the Constitution of the United States of America and the requirement is 35 years of age residing in the United States so many years, and, oh yeah, citizen." Can we prove the citizenship thing right now please, once and for all? ... Show us the birth certificate, man. Show us the money. It's sealed up in Hawaii? Show it to us. ... Show us the birth certificate.
Mark Hyman
- From a June 8, 2009, post on The American Spectator website:
Obama's lawyers are attempting to financially ruin individuals party to the most absurd soap opera involving the 44th president. There is unabated controversy regarding his birth, citizenship and foreign travel. Obama could immediately silence his critics by authorizing the release of his original birth certificate and passport. One has to wonder what could possibly be in either document that has caused Obama to wage a fierce and expensive legal battle to keep the files secreted. Aside from Joan Rivers, nearly every American would willingly make their birth certificate available and Obama's stubborn refusal to do so only adds to the controversy.
Barry Farber
- From an April 6, 2009, Newsmax.com column:
We've not been allowed to see the president's birth certificate. Instead we've been offered something nobody ever heard of called a "certificate of live birth" from the state of Hawaii. If all this culminates in the revelation that Barack Obama is not, in fact, eligible to serve as president of the USA, this will go down as his team's biggest mistake. The American people may not be all we used to be, but we're not yet ready to roll over and smile at the sight of a confection designed to masquerade as a birth certificate while we're being angrily denied a look at the real thing.
Molotov Mitchell
- From a June 17 WorldNetDaily video:
We cannot survive four years of this. But there is a solution. We have something that man has sought throughout the ages -- we have a time machine. Yes, a time machine. And with it, we can undo most of Obama's damage. All we have to do is demand Obama's proof of citizenship. These are the facts: Obama's grandmother says that he was born in Kenya. His elementary school records say that he was an Indonesian citizen. He traveled in and out of Pakistan when American passports were prohibited. And by the way, where are the records that show his name change from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama? And why has he sealed all records that could indicate his national origin?
Republicans, you're looking for leadership? Well, here it is: Publicly demand the answers to these questions. Obama will resign. If he doesn't, we know that we are in a dictatorship. Walk out of Congress, and don't look back.
By the way, I feel the same thing about the 9/11 Truth folks. By raising unfounded suspicion based on assumptions and innuendo, they further erode their own credibility. There are plenty of real, tangible and proven acts by Bush that rose to the level of criminality. We didn't need to add another that was at best supposition, but served to damage the reputation of those of us that legitimately wanted to call Bush to task for known offenses.
I know McCain got an exception, but I think it's all really silly. If you are pregnant, don't travel abroad unless you want to ruin your child's chances of being president.
well being a naval wife, that wasn't much an option for roberta mccain to remain at home. traditionally wives went wherever their husbands went.
We, the US, never owned the Panama Canal Zone, it was a lease.
That would be far too restrictive. Let's say two American parents gave birth while on a visit to Canada. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any legal authority who would challenge that child's natural-born status.
There are some, though, who would disagree. Leo Donofrio's suit against Obama claims that the fact that Great Britain grants him citizenship because of his father's Kenyan citizenship prevents Obama from being a natural born citizenship. Donofrio also asserts that McCain also didn't qualify because of his birth in Panama.
Phillip Berg's suit is different. He's one of the nutbags forwarding the claim that Obama was born in Kenya, along with Alan Keyes. Donofrio doesn't make that claim. He accepts the reality that Obama was born in Hawaii.
The fact is that Natural Born Citizen has never been precisely defined in any way that would prevent Obama from occupying the office to which he was elected. Even if he was born in Kenya, there might not be enough legal cause to not consider him Natural Born.
Sorry, Bill, I just had to.
The laws of England became the laws of America after the Revolution. The term changed from "natural born subject" to "natural born citizen."
From US v. Wong Kim Ark 1898
"...and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.
III. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established. "
The same definition is found in other Supreme Court opinions.
The so-called 'evidence' isn't compelling. It's 99% supposition. It's same sort of "evidence" that folks say proves we never land on the Moon. It's the kind of evidence that can sound compelling at first glance but doesn't hold up to further scrutiny.
Start with a Craftsman 6" bench grinder.
Use the coarse grinding wheel to sharpen you iron tools, or smooth the edges of some 4130 Chromoly tubing, causing generous amounts of iron oxide to coat your benchtop.
Now use the same grinding wheel to smooth the edges of the 2024-T3 Aluminum bar stock in your longerons, resulting a fine powder of aluminum on the iron oxide.
Oops!
Get a clue dude, you have NO IDEA who signs this nonsense. Web-site petitions are completely bogus. I could sign opne saying I'm anyone from Steven Hoawking to Kickey mouse. I can also add a ton of names to my own. If there are any legfitimate architecturla or engineering professors named on that site, they ahould be embarssed by the shoddy anaylsis work being done there. What's more, they are opposed by the 100's of 1000's of architects, engineers and professors who have not signed the petition, and do not subscribe to these nutball theories.
The bulding CAN collapsed that way because THEY DID.
(And to fill you in, we DID land on the moon, and Obama WAS born in USA.)
Go learn how to think critcally.
Steven HAWKING or MICKEY Mouse
(well, I COULD say I was teven Hoawking to Kickey mouse, but I have no idea why I would want to!)
Hopefully the fact that my brain works faster than my fingers was good for laugh, but didn't confuse anyone too badly!
Note to MMFA: EDIT FUNCTION! PLEASE!!!
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
It's not exactly the same as a birth certificate, but the State of Hawaii doesn't give out a Birth Certificate for these kinds of requests - they use the original Birth Certificate to fill out a Certificate of Live Birth.
That's the issue here - there's a difference between the two documents. An insignificant difference, to be sure, but a difference.
There's the logic angle as well. Are we to believe that Barack's young mother had the inkling that her son would someday want to run for president, so she better make it look like he was born in America? He was already an American citizen regardless of where he was born. The only benefit to be gained by showing a birth in Hawaii was the presidency, and even that is debatable as John McCain was born in Panama but was still eligible due to his American parentage.
This is not, in fact, the same status given to an embassy or other instances where international law allows discontiguous territory to be recognized as the sovereign soil of the home country.
In fact, it is exactly the same status as the land on Guantanamo Bay Naval Base. And if you recall, containing them on land where the CONSTITUTIONthat is not actually sovereign US territory even though we lease it and apply our laws there where the constitution does not apply was the whole point of moving the terrorists and non-terrorists who had enemies that wanted to stead their lands or wives or jobs and so called them a terrorist to some sergeant in US forces in Iraq or Afghanistan.
One of my favorite points on this topic. I also like to point out that this was 1961, hardly a time in which anyone would expect a black child to be able to attain the Presidency within their life expectancy. She also wasn't in any position of power or great wealth where she might expect a child to have an automatic advantage in such an ambition. There's no reason to believe that this possibility would cross her mind even for a moment.
The whole thing really is rather silly and lacking in judgment. Are we supposed to believe that the Founding Fathers would tell a high-ranking military official that their son can't be President because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone? By the same token, it seems bizarre to say that someone shouldn't be President because their mother was 18 instead of 19 and they spent the first few days of their life in another country. This is especially true for Savage's account, where his mother tried to return to the United States but was not allowed. Her intent would easily trump any strict interpretation of "natural-born citizen" in an environment of fair and honest judgment.
Brabantio's point is that for these conspiracy nuts to be right, Obama's mother would have had to commit fraud in 1961 as a teenager of limited resources in order to provide her mixed-race baby with Natural Born Citizen status so that he could become President 47 years later. And that's assuming that she was aware of the arbitrary definitions of Natural Born Citizen that those nuts would insist on applying to Obama that have no actual basis in law.
This is a never-ending lose/lose story for him.
They Obama haters and conspiracy lovers will continue no matter what document he were to produce.
But the better question that should be asked is this:
Name one other president that handed-in an original copy of their birth certificate.
So heck, we could use this conspiracy against ANY U.S. PRESIDENT!
This post is OT too, BTW.
This SC rules people have a constitutional right to own guns but says they do not have the same right to prove their innocence by DNA testing. Go figure.
here is the funny thing about this issue. had mccain became president, i dont think anyone would have raised his eligibility considering he was not born in any state but on a US naval base in a foreign country.
but that just shows the difference between many people.
This is not the same. It really isn't. It was sovereign Panamanian soil that the Panamanians allowed us to control to the point of enforcing our laws upon it. This is actually more similar to the status of Guantanamo Bay Naval Base where GW Bush housed people he accused of terrorism _specifically because_ (according to his interpretation) the constitution does not apply. The right backed him up on that.
Now many of the same ppl on the right are saying that the constitutional provisions for "natural born citizenship" of eventual presidents DO apply on land in a legally similar status when it benefits them.
Really, this is another example of the blatant double standards of the right's supposedly intelligent representatives. Lawyers who actually specialize in International Law will have even more details confirming the above, but I suspect such details are unnecessary in a discussion such as this. The long and short is that Barack Obama had more claim to legitimacy than John McCain. Now in a fictional universe where Barack Obama was actually born in that other-dimensional Kenya, BO would have exactly the same claim to legitimacy - no more, no less - based on the fact that having a single natural birth parent with american citizenship grants a natural right to american citizenship for the child. This particular constitutional clause has never been tested, but based on how it was asserted to work at the original constitutional conventions and in related discussions and papers, the Framers clearly meant it to mean anyone born on the sovereign territory of the US or having a natural parent that was a US citizen at the time of the birth of the child. BO meets both tests. JM meets only one. The right wing passes no test of actual intelligence or ethical integrity.
None of this matters, who cares. He's truly the Manchurian President. The offshore bankers own his arse. Didn't Y'all read the world finance/bank news today?
I have to know - are you a Republican? Is this how far this party has fallen?
Well, the wingnut version, anyway . . .
There are "two sources of citizenship, and two only: birth and naturalization." United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702, 42 L. Ed. 890, 18 S. Ct. 456 (1898). Within the former category, the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution guarantees that every person "born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization." 169 U.S. at 702. Persons not born in the United States acquire citizenship by birth only as provided by Acts of Congress. 169 U.S. at 703.
Miller v. Albright, 523 U.S. 420, 423-24 (1998).
Barack Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961. Because Hawaii was (and is) a U.S. state, any person born on Hawaiian soil is a United States citizen by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment. No other facts are relevant, including the citizenship of one's parents. (This is the same rule that controversially confers citizenship on children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrant parents.)
The only time the citizenship of one's parents has any relevancy to whether a person is a natural born U.S. citizen is if the person is NOT born in the United States, and thus the Fourteenth Amendment does not apply. Such a person, as the above Supreme Court case states, can ONLY be a natural born citizen if a congressional statute specifically provides for it.
In the case of John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone, a 1937 congressional statute provided for citizenship to persons born in the Canal Zone who had at least one U.S. citizen parent. The problem was, McCain was born in the Canal Zone in 1936, before this law was passed. It is not clear whether natural born citizenship can be conferred retroactively. The Senate issued a resolution in April 2008 that McCain was a natural born citizen, but this was not legally binding. This legal puzzle remains unsolved.
Many times the true meaning of consitutional wording must be determined by looking at the era and the circumstances, and, in some cases, terminology in other sections of the constitution, the inclusion or exclusion of supporting verbage, and even writings other than the Constitution.
Article 2, section 1 of the Constitution states, "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of president; neither shall any person be eligible who shall not attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United Satates."
The addition of a grandfather clause in this paragraph says a lot as to the meaning of natural born. The first thing it says is that being born in the US is not enough to be natural born, otherwise the grandfather clause would not be necessary. The writers and delegates, having been born in the US, wanted to be eligible for the presidency, but most were the children of British subjects. Knowing that that eliminated them from being natural born and, thus, from eligibility, they included the grandfather clause which expired when the last person alive at the time of the ratification of the Constitution died. So, being a native born citizen is not the same as being natural born. If it were the framers would not have included the clause.
When asked to define natural born citizen, John Bingham, the author of the 14th ammendment which extended the bill of rights to former slaves, stated, "Any human born to parents who are US citizens and are under no other jurisdiction or authority." The Naturalization Act of 1790, also passed by this congress, declared "And the children of citizens of the US shall be considered as natural born, provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been a resident of the US." Neither of these definitions, one from US law, mentions birthplace, only the parents' citizenship.
This concept of citizenship by blood as opposed to citizenship by geography is a concept with a long history in British common law. A law passed in 1677 says that natural born citizens are those persons born to British citizens, including those born overseas. Alexander Porter wrote an article over 100 years ago in which he declares that the framers drew upon this difference in the law of heredity and territorial allegiance to define a third class of citizen applicable only to the eligibility to hold the office of president. According to Morse, "the framers thought it wise to provide that the president should at least be the child of citizens owing allegiance only to the US at the time of birth." He goes on to say that the the eligibility of the president "was scarcely intended to bar the children of American citizens, whether born at sea or in foreign territory."
The concept of citizenship by blood also precludes the equation of natural born with native born as the latter strictly demands geographical requirements.
Many argue that Barack Obama was eligible to be a state senator and a US senator and could not suddenly be ineligible to be president, but that is exactly the case. If this premise were true, Arnold Schwarzenegger, governor of California, would also be eligible to be president, and it is established that he is not.
Barack Obama has proudly and publicly stated that his father was a citizen of Kenya. We know his mother was eigteen years old when he was born. These two facts make Obama ineligible to be president. No birth certificate is needed as proof, and it doesn't matter at all where Obama was born. His father's non-citizenship is all the law requires. He is ineligible from the beginning, meaning he is NOT the president and can be removed from office without any impeachment or trial, it requires only a ruling by the SCOTUS.
Question: What's on the original birth certificate that he doesn't want us to see?
He was born in Hawaii.
Case closed.
You mean in addition to the information the State of Hawaii certified as being correct, which is more than enough evidence to prove citizenship?
Question: Why do the learning-disabled who post here seem so proud of their ignorance?
The fact is that the article you stole from so freely doesn't make an actual legal case. They use copious amounts of personal interpretation in order to come up with the idea that having a single parent of non-American citizenship automatically precludes NBC status. That interpretation doesn't exist in legal statute, so there is no law to apply to remove Obama from office. He's President. Deal with it.
I doubt if there's anything on the original birth certificate to hide. However, the people pushing the issue wouldn't support Obama in any case. I'll bet Obama gets a kick out of seeing his political opponents spinning their wheels and wasting their resources on pursuing the issue. He probably figures it's as good a place for them to waste their energies as any.
Actually, the grandfather clause is much more simple than that. If a President had been required to be a "natural born citizen" of the United States with no exception, then none of the leaders at the time the Constitution was adopted would have been eligible to hold the office of President, including George Washington, since there was no entitly called the "United States of America" when they were born.
To the extent there was a distinction between "natural born citizen" and "native born" regarding children of slaves and certain immigrants, that distinction was long ago obliterated by the Supreme Court's interpretation of the language of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Your theories are interesting, but they have absolutely no merit in a court of law in the United States. If you believe differently, I challenge you to point out one single Supreme Court decision which supports your interpretation of the law.
There are "two sources of citizenship, and two only: birth and naturalization." United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702, 42 L. Ed. 890, 18 S. Ct. 456 (1898). Within the former category, the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution guarantees that every person "born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization." 169 U.S. at 702. Persons not born in the United States acquire citizenship by birth only as provided by Acts of Congress. 169 U.S. at 703.
Miller v. Albright, 523 U.S. 420, 423-24 (1998).
scruzman states:
"The Naturalization Act of 1790, also passed by this congress, declared 'And the children of citizens of the US shall be considered as natural born, provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been a resident of the US.' Neither of these definitions, one from US law, mentions birthplace, only the parents' citizenship."
He thinks this applies to all persons, wherever they are born. He is wrong.
According to the above-mentioned Supreme Court precedent (and there are numerous others like it), the Fourteenth Amendment governs the citizenship of persons born on U.S. soil. Without any further action by Congress, no other persons can be natural born U.S. citizens. If Congress wants certain types of persons born abroad to be U.S. citizens by birth, it must to pass legislation to that effect.
So why does the statute scruzman cites speak of parental citizenship, but not geography? For very good reason, as it turns out. By definition, any statute providing for the natural born U.S. citizenship of a person can only apply to those born outside the United States, so the geographic implications are implicit, and do not need to be made explicit. Additionally, it stands to reasons that such statutes should refer to the citizenship of one's parents. Without limiting citizenship to the children of U.S. citizens, U.S. citizenship would be extended to every person born outside of the U.S. Obviously this is an absurd result.
And why does the statute require that a U.S. citizen parent should have also been a resident of the U.S.? Because if it didn't, then there would be no way that persons born to progressively remote generations of non-U.S. born persons could ever lose their U.S. citizenship. Absent a residency requirement, U.S. citizen parents who themselves never lived in the U.S. could still give birth to a natural born U.S. citizen. That child, in turn, could transfer his citizenship to his own children without becoming a U.S. resident, and so on. Clearly, the residency requirement of U.S. citizen parents is a way of cutting off this undesirable outcome.
Many birthers simply do not comprehend these critical distinctions. Their ignorance of how the law is designed and operates is nothing short of spectacular. They quote congressional acts referring to the citizenship of one's parents, not realizing those definitions can only apply to persons born outside of the United States. As for people born on U.S. soil, the Fourteenth Amendment as interpreted by the Supreme Court ensures that the citizenship of one's parents is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.
Will this stop their elaborate theories? No. Because they're more interested in semantic navel-gazing and Obama-bashing than understanding the law as it is actually applied under our system of law. The law be damned - they're right because, well, they're just right.
BZZZZZZZZZT!!! Try again!
Unlike the presidency, there is NO citizenship requirement in California {or any other state, for that matter} for a governor to be born in that state.
If that were the case, Ronald Reagan {born in Tampico, IL} would also have been ineligible to have a CA governor . .
Answer: NOT A D*MNED THING.
Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.
We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.
In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:
Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama,
6085 Kalanianaele Hwy., son, Aug. 4.
The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.
Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.
NOW -- will you wingnuts puh-LEEZE give it up?
Since Obama can prove his birth in the State of Hawaii fully within the requirements of Hawaii law, the birther movement now wants MORE than the law requires. They claim that the Certification of Live Birth is part of a conspiracy by the Hawaiian government in cahoots with Obama. Claiming the document a fraud, they demand his original birth certificate, on the theory that it will have information which conflicts with the Certificate of Live Birth. Of course, we know that even if Obama gives in to this demand, the birthers will engage in conspiracy theories claiming the original certificate was altered, or is even a forgery, and will demand the REAL real birth certificate. We all know by now that even if Obama were to produce a picture or even video footage of his birth, the birthers would still argue it was doctored. (For example, WorldNetDaily cannot even accept that an obvious childhood picture of Obama is real. In one of their recent "investigative articles," the best the folks at WND can bring themselves to say about a pitcure of Obama's kindergarten class is that "[t]he teachers claim one of the children is Barack Obama.")
Alteratively, they challenge the legitimacy of Hawaii law regulating how births are recorded. They claim that the Certification of Live Birth is somehow issued in violation of federal or international law. (By the way, whatever happened to the cherished principle of subsidiarity?) For example, they claim that Hawaii law permitting the registration of children born outside of Hawaii to parents who are residents of Hawaii is a violation of some unspecified super-law. Even if this is true - and it isn't - it doesn't apply to Obama, since this provision of Hawaii law didn't come into effect until 21 years after Obama's birth was registered with the State of Hawaii. Not that this matters to true believers.
Let's face it, we're not going to convince those who believe Obama is a fraud with an intensity approaching religious fervency. They'll keep inventing new conspiracy theories and imaginary rules as older ones are knocked down. Or they'll stick their fingers in their ears and scream and pout until we agree with them.
Some say his paternal Grandmother reported being at his birth in Kenya. Note that no one requires HER to prove that, they take her at her word. I see that as a fairly flimsy piece of evidence.
Nonsense. It's been well established that the Certification of Live Birth that Obama supplied is the standard form Hawaii issues to ALL who have their birth certificates registered with the state when they request a certificate.
You really need to take a break from conspiracy sites. The real world isn't that bad a place to inhabit. No BC or COLB required.
You have correctly pointed out that Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 permits the issuing of birth certificates to persons not born in Hawaii. What you did not point out was that this law was adopted in 1982. There was no similar law in Hawaii before this law was enacted. Prior to 1982, only children born on Hawaiian soil could be registered and issued birth certificates by the State of Hawaii.
Barack Obama's birth was registered by the State of Hawaii on August 8, 1961. August 8, 1961 occurred before 1982. Therefore, at the time of Obama's birth, a child registered by the State of Hawaii must have been born in the State of Hawaii. Thus, the only way Obama could have been registered by the State of Hawaii on August 8, 1961 is if he were born in the State of Hawaii. QED
Note: My apologies for not sourcing my original post. I wasn't aware that historical facts had to be sourced. I've read all kinds of stuff just about everywhere and those 14 paragraphs relating to the 14th ammendment seemed pertinent to the disscussion. I copied it into my notes along the way and didn't remember, or care, where I got it. I promise to try to do better.
Thanks.
You're crazy, robmarch.
What matters is not that Obama has a Certification of Live Birth or a Birth Certificate. Let's face it, no matter what Obama produces, it will be dismissed as a fake. What matters is that Obama's birth was registered in Hawaii at a time when only babies born on Hawaiian soil could have been be so registered. robmarch simply can't get around that fact, and he knows it.
The whole rightwing from the media all the way down to the knuckledraggers that still identify as republican are nothing but a bunch of children holding their breath, kicking and screaming on the floor, all because their failed ideology has put our country in the crapper.
These people need to shut up and let the adults fix this crap.
Freedom of Speech
Freedom of Religon
Freedon to spout crazy ideas continuously whether they are based in fact or not. I don't think I need to repeat the definition of crazy.
Let's face it, this is a grey area only because the Constitution does not define "natural born citizen" in a way that covers all available options and, because of this certain crazy people will continue to promote this idea regardless of any "facts".
What I found intriguing was what I found about children born overseas out of wedlock.
Children born abroad to unmarried American mothers are automatically considered natural-born citizens, as long as the mother has lived in the US for a continuous period of at least one year, anytime prior to the birth.
It seems the rules are tighter for children born out of wedlock to men that are citizens of the U.S. overseas.
So if Obama would have been considered a "natural born citizen" if he had been born in Kenya and his mother wasn't even married, why would he not be a citizen when she was married.
No matter what, this topic just makes my head hurt.