Roll Call uncritically quotes Boehner falsehood that Dem bill leaves 23 million currently insured with no health coverage
SUMMARY: Roll Call uncritically quoted John Boehner's false suggestion that under a health care reform bill drafted by Senate Democrats, "at least 23 million Americans would lose their coverage" and be left without health insurance.
A June 23 Roll Call article uncritically quoted House Minority Leader John Boehner's claim, "Today the President again claimed that the Democrats' government takeover of health care would not force Americans off of their current plans, yet independent analysts have reported that at least 23 million Americans would lose their coverage under the bill drafted by Senate Democrats." Boehner has repeatedly cited that figure, attributing it to the Congressional Budget Office's analysis of draft legislation from the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP). In fact, the CBO calculated that with respect to that bill, in 2017, approximately 10 million individuals "who would be covered through an employer's plan under current law would not have access to that coverage under the draft legislation because some employers would choose not to offer it." But those individuals would not be left without health insurance, as Boehner suggested; the CBO stated that under the draft HELP bill that CBO analyzed -- which did not include a public option -- these individuals would have purchased private insurance offered through the government-regulated exchanges set up by the legislation.
The "at least 23 million Americans" figure Boehner used actually refers to the number of Americans currently covered under employer-provided, individual, or government-provided health insurance that the CBO determined would be covered in 2017 through the bill's insurance exchanges. In a June 15 letter detailing the CBO's preliminary analysis of portions of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions' (HELP) proposed health care reform bill, CBO director Douglas Elmendorf wrote:
Once the proposal was fully implemented, about 39 million individuals would obtain coverage through the new insurance exchanges. At the same time, the number of people who had coverage through an employer would decline by about 15 million (or roughly 10 percent), and coverage from other sources would fall by about 8 million, so the net decrease in the number of people uninsured would be about 16 million.
Elmendorf also wrote that according to the CBO's analysis, 15 million fewer people would be "covered by an employment-based health plan" if the HELP bill were passed than under current law. He added that that figure included "roughly 10 million people who would have an offer of employment-based coverage but would be allowed to obtain subsidies in the insurance exchanges because that coverage would be deemed 'unaffordable.' " Elmendorf also stated that "about 8 million" individuals covered "under Medicaid and CHIP [Children's Health Insurance Program] and in nongroup coverage" would change their coverage "because of the subsidies offered in the exchanges."
In 2017, for example, the number of uninsured would fall by about 16 million, relative to current-law projections. In that year, about 39 million people would be covered by policies purchased through the new insurance exchange. At the same time, about 147 million people would be covered by an employment-based health plan, 15 million fewer than under current law.3 Smaller net declines (totaling about 8 million) would occur in coverage under Medicaid and CHIP and in nongroup coverage because of the subsidies offered in the exchanges.
[...]
3 That net decline in employment-based coverage is itself the result of several flows. In particular, it includes roughly 10 million people who would have an offer of employment-based coverage but would be allowed to obtain subsidies in the insurance exchanges because that coverage would be deemed "unaffordable." Although the legislation did not specify a standard for affordability, CBO and the JCT [Joint Committee on Taxation] staff assumed that coverage would be deemed unaffordable if workers had to pay a larger share of their income for their employer's plan than they would have to pay in the exchanges.
In a June 16 post to his blog following up on his letter, Elmendorf further explained the "changes [that] would produce" the 15 million net decrease in the number of people that had employer-based insurance. He wrote that roughly 10 million people who had the option to choose between their employer-provided health insurance and the insurance offered through the exchange would choose the latter, while approximately 10 million individuals "who would be covered through an employer's plan under current law would not have access to that coverage under the draft legislation because some employers would choose not to offer it." In addition, "[A]pproximately 5 million more individuals would obtain employer-based coverage under the proposal." From Elmendorf's blog post:
- Some individuals would have insurance coverage available from their employer, but would also have an option to obtain subsidized insurance from an exchange. That opportunity would exist for people whose incomes were sufficiently low -- and the cost of employer-sponsored insurance sufficiently high -- so that the insurance would be categorized as "unaffordable" under rules that would be set by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. (Although the draft legislation does not specify a standard for affordability, CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation assumed that coverage would be deemed unaffordable if workers had to pay a larger share of their income for their employer's plan than they would have to pay in the exchanges.) By CBO's estimate, about 10 million people with this choice would opt to obtain insurance from exchanges rather than from their employer.
- The availability of subsidized coverage in the new insurance exchanges would be an attractive option for many lower-income workers. As a result, some employers would decide not to offer their employees health insurance coverage, opting instead to provide other forms of compensation. CBO estimates that about 10 million individuals who would be covered through an employer's plan under current law would not have access to that coverage under the draft legislation because some employers would choose not to offer it.
- Finally, approximately 5 million more individuals would obtain employer-based coverage under the proposal (compared with the number under current law) either because they worked for a firm that newly began to offer coverage as a result of the legislation or because they decided to enroll in an insurance plan that the employer would offer under current law but which they would not select in the absence of the legislation. (Some workers would value an employer's offer of insurance and be more willing to sign up for it because of the legislation's requirement for individuals to have insurance; some employers would begin to offer insurance to accommodate employees' desires and to take advantage of the subsidies that would be provided for some small businesses.)
From the June 23 Roll Call article:
While he didn't insist on a government insurance option, the president was vigorous in his defense of it, denying that it would lead to a government "takeover" of the health system. But Republicans gave the argument a thumbs down.
"Today the President again claimed that the Democrats' government takeover of health care would not force Americans off of their current plans, yet independent analysts have reported that at least 23 million Americans would lose their coverage under the bill drafted by Senate Democrats," House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) said in a statement released after the press conference. "House Republicans have introduced a better alternative to make health care more affordable and accessible, ensure that Americans can keep their health plan, and keep doctors and patients, not government bureaucrats, in charge of critical and personal medical decisions."














Wink wink, nudge nudge, "say no more."
First of all, this is so complicated, that no matter what he says, or the CBO says, I don't believe it. CBO notoriously low-balls estimates. If I take the above quote, then
46 million minus 16 million still leaves 30 million people uninsured. Have we settled on the fact that today there are only 16 million uninsured and not the 46 million number that is floating around?
If there are still 30 million uninsured, what problem are we solving?
The sad part of all this insurance hand waving is that it has nothing to do with good health care. If the Dems and Repubs could focus on improving health care, the American people might be supportive. Today all they hear is "Government health care in Canada is wonderful" and "Government health care in Canada is a killer." Same for other government run health systems.
One fact is sure. The US Government runs very few things well. It's difficult to find a success. That scares a lot of people. Well documented Government failures are USPS, Amtrak, Border protection, Social Security [1% return on investent, lose everything if you die, and blacks receive a negative return on investment], War on Poverty, Veterans Administration [a complete single payer system right here in America], and lots more.
What I don't understand is why people want the authors of the above failures to own their health care and be making health care decisions for them. Is there no other way?
You cite the USPS as a "failure", but let's look at the reasons why lately it is. And it's essentially because of the proliferation of e-mail and electronic media. And this, just in the last 10 years or so, before that, I wouldn't call the US Postal Service a failure at all. Indeed, I would not call it a failure today. You can still get a letter coast to coast for less than a dollar, and a few days. And they don't have a monopoly. What do you think FedEx, UPS, DHL, and other carriers do for a living?
Amtrak, yeah, got us on that one, although it was paid for by the government, and not run by them.
War on poverty. I'm not so sure there is an office, or someone running the war on poverty. What we have seen though, is that whenever someone wants to raise the minimum wage, mostly republicans line up behind NOT doing that, because of alleged small business concerns. This has to do with paying a liveable wage, and the current minimum wage doesn't do it.
Border security is run properly, but let's face it. We have a large border with Mexico and Canada, and without tons more money, we can't cover it all. The agency is run well, but they lack the proper amount of human resources to cover everything, and we wouldn't be able to cover it all even with unlimited resources. Border patrol is again, a well run organization.
Social security is actually well run as well. Why? Well, folks get their checks as required, and the agency has been around for a long long time now, and will still be going strong for a long time as well. Just because return on investment is low, doesn't mean that it is poorly run. I would say it's one of the best run agencies that the government has ever had, considering its longevity, and how without it, millions upon millions of Americans would have died destitute and broke.
Contrary to popular belief, the VA isn't as bad as you'd make it out to be. They do provide for our veterans, and do a decent job. I know several vets, including my father, uncle, and grandfather, who have, or had, nothing but praise for the VA and what they've done for them over the years. Also, go back, in time, post WWII. The VA/GI Bill was basically responsible for some of the largest financial growth and succecss that our country has ever seen in its history.
USPS
Amtrak
War on Poverty
Border Security
Social Security
Veterans Administration
do you think is an outstanding Federal Government success? Please explain.
During Republican Administrations? None of them.
Why do you think Medicare and Medicaid don't work? Do not hesitate to be clear, lucid, and concise.
What I find laughable about you righties is that you have such disdain for the government except when it comes to the military and the police. Then instead of bureaucrats, they're heroes. You don't get to pick and choose what is or is not the federal government. The MILITARY IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT... the INTERSTATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!
Military is good. It's not economically efficient but it's necessary and almost everyone accepts it as a good investment. Also in times of true crisis, Americans help
in all areas and the military becomes more efficient.
My point is that Federal management of most things is poor.
I only gave a short list of federal government failures; I have a longer one. But to help your argument, I'll list things the Feds have done well:
1. Transcontinental RR - it would have been delayed 20
years had the feds not funded the building. money, no
management. Has been shown to be an economic plus for
the country.
2. GI bill - money, no management.
3. NASA - money and management - naysayers say this should
be private, but it would not have happened if it were
private. I don't know if we should fund this but I would
be very uncomforable if Russia and China were walking
around on the moon and we didn't have a rocket to
orbit the earth.
4. DARPA - money, no managment - TCP/IP,GPS arose out of
DARPA
5. Coast Guard, money AND Management - Seems extremely
focused and well run.
6. FDA - "safe" is ok, "effective" is political and
subject to graft. money, not much management needed.
The "safe" problem is strewn through 3 or 4 agencies
only one of which is the FDA. Here management for
"safe" has failed. "effective" makes the FDA unfocused.
7. ConRail - Feds took bankrupt northeast railroads, ran
them, and started making a profit (no competition)
and sold it off to CSX and NS [PRR,NYC,NYNH,Reading,
D&L,D&H,Erie, and a bunch of others all disappeared.)
8. USPS - but it loses money and is economically
inefficient which is the mark of a monopoly. It has very
good reliability with delivery, but service is poor.
Have you ever tried to redeem a lost money order?
9. Interstate Highways - money, no management.
Amtrak - has lost money forever.
War on Poverty was a 1 trillion dollar program spread
over 20 years started by
Lyndon Johnson and only mostly shut down under Clinton.
It is responsbile for the skyscraper tenements in Chicago
that grouped all the poor in tiny geographic localities. It is also
responsibile for developing a generation of welfare families
because there was no limit to the amount of welfare you
could receive. Clinton terminated the unlimited welfare
and many of the tenements have been abandoned and torn down.
Border Security - is bad. Yes it costs more to improve, but
simply inforcing laws with respect to employers would solve
a lot of the problem. The laws are not enforced because
politicians see an advantage in allowing illegal aliens
into the country. What that is, I don't know, but they have
done nothing about it. I'm guessing the Repubs see
donations from employers and the Dems see votes from
illegal aliens and other Hispanic people. This emphasizes
how government uses
non-reasoning and personal goals to manage things that
effect everyone.
Social Security - Had the original funded SS plan been kept,
the plan today would be actuarially viable. In 1939, the
politicians were wondering how to deal with the fund
being amassed (before even the first payout). They changed
it to a pay as you go affair and from that point onward
it either had to grow to avoid becoming unstable. That point
in time for instability has been put off until now when,
within 10 to 20 years, 2 people will be paying for each
beneficiary.
The design of the plan is unconscionable. You get a 1%
return on your investment. If you die, you lose it all.
That is not an investment any normal person would chose to
make. Had the government said "You must pay "X" into an
account of your choosing that must be at least 70% Treasury
notes and the remainder can be Municiple bonds and you
can't get it out until you're 65" you would
have received 3 to 4 % on your investment, you would
be able to transfer it to your children, and it would not
have lost value during the recent market shakeup. Monthly
payouts would be roughly doubled today and throughout the
past. The politicians didn't want a "private" option
and voted it out (Clark Amendment).
Veterans Administration - From
http://www.va.gov/budget/summary/2010/Volume_1-Summary_Volume.pdf
"78% of inpatient and outpatient opinion rates VA good or excellent."
That is significantly below the 85% satisfaction rate of the current system.
At V.A. Hospital, a Rogue Cancer Unit - NYTimes.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/21radiation.html?em
I looked at the congressional debates over increasing funding of VA. They are frequent and partisan and point out where
the VA is underfunded according to many.
VA generally provides good to excellent care. Problems arise when major health issues appear. Did your relatives use
VA to the exclusion of all other health care? Did they have any major health problems that were addressed by VA? If so, how did VA do? VA is a single payer system. If it works we
we should be looking at it for a model. If not, we should
understand what the limits are.
In evaluating government Health care options, including the VA, it is important not condemn a program based on 1 or 2 or even 10 examples. With Canada, UK and even VA, that's all that is available. One person says he has lived in Canada for 20 years and had nothing but good things to say about Canadian health care. Another person will say he couldn't get cancer therapy for 6 months and came to the US to save his own life. Probably both stories are true, but they don't tell the story of whether the programs are economically efficient or not or how major medical issues are resolved.
I am steadfastly against allowing a Federal legislature to make rules about what procedures are available to 85 year old people. They can demand that everyone who asks be covered by insurance companies, but suggesting a pacemaker for a 100 year old person is "inappropriate" is inappropriate. That is a decision for the family.
BTW, how much money is spent on "edge cases" anyway? We all hear about them [Oregon woman denied cancer therapy, but offered doctor assisted suicide: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=67565]. Are we saying the entire
state of Oregon would go bankrupt based on this one woman's need for cancer therapy? I doubt that.
I have a list of government successes also.
So you say that the VA is run poorly, but then put a stat up that says 78% rate them as excellent or good. So which is it? Are they good, or bad?
My grandfather used the VA almost exclusively during the last 10 years of his life for his medical care, and not only was it great, the people we dealt with there were amazing, and did for him what I don't think anyone else could have done. My father and Uncle both still have insurance through their spouses, so they don't need VA help currently, but if they did need it, it would be there for them.
I'm pretty sure that the USPS hasn't posted losses for the last 50 years. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I highly doubt it, and that doesn't speak to how a company is run either. They are an efficient organization, as it pertains to what they're in the market of. Delivery of mail. Do you think the private sector could do it better? I highly doubt it.
The largest issue about social security is this; politicians can't leave the trust fund alone. If they simply would keep their hands out of it, it wouldn't be a problem. And still, as I said before, it's been going now for a long time, and has provided sustenance to people who have lived off of it, and would have been a lot worse off if it did not exist. It's a good example of a government program that works exceptionally well. And I actually don't mind donating my money to it, because I think it serves a great purpose, whether I see any of that money back or not doesn't matter to me. I've helped my fellow citizens.
Illegal aliens can't vote. Other than that, I sort of agree with you that illegal aliens coming into our country is a matter of employers, but you said the border patrol was run badly. It's not.
http://books.google.com/books?id=5a0wf4HHRVgC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=Great+society+programs+success+pverty+rates&source=bl&ots=VnNwqWzRBZ&sig=yUz34U6NBD2g2vq_AJNg_mfx3kY&hl=en&ei=HdxDStuYF4ncsgOL6rD0DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2
Border Security is always a problem. I am not claiming the Feds can do everything just super. This one I give you.
Social Security. Are you KIDDING? One of the most popular and successful programs of all time. Before SS half of all seniors died in poverty today that is less than 10% How is that NOT a success?
The VA has a checkered history. At some times like During the Reagan years it was disgraceful. It began to get better under Bush1 and was pretty good under Clinton and Bush 2 has let it languish again. I know vets that LOVE the system and those that hate it. I would be glad to spend what it takes to make it a better system, then again if we had a single payer system that wouldnt even be necessary as EVERYONE would have healthcare.
These programs were NOT abject failures and you left out some ASTONISHING sucess stories. Like Rural electrification, the highway system the telecomunications system. I dont want gov to do everything. It is just dumb to trot out these lists and pretend they were failures because they cost money when they DID do what they were supposed to do in fact the reason they werent MORE successful is simply that they were MEANT as half measures. SS was never meant to be a national pension plan which would have cost more. The Great society programs were only meant to alleviate the worst misery not end all poverty as we know it which also would have been immensely expensive. They werent failures just because screechmonkeys on the right keep TELLING you they were.
Well done...that strikes at the core of the issue. Many people believe, just like you, that they don't want bureaucrats in Washington running health care.
Why? Their abysmal track record as you nicely laid out. Democrats try to knock the discussion off course by claiming that conservatives are against people getting health care. The actual fact of the matter is that conservatives are not against health care reform...but many have a distinct distrust of a system implemented and administered by the Feds.
Keep pounding them with the list of government run failures...so far I've seen lots of blathering in response but darn little substantive replies.
Why don't they all turn down their tax payer funded public healthcare that they receive from the federal governemtn? I'm sure that they can opt out, and pay for their own healthcare, and it's apparently what they believe in.
I think we should start a letter writing campaign asking them to show their convictions about public funded healthcare, and to NOT take the healthcare that they get now.
Wanna bet how many of them turn it down and pay for their own?